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One World with Zain Asher
Trump Sees Blockade As Best Option To Get Iran To Negotiate; Brent Crude Briefly Tops $216 A Barrel Amid U.S. Blockade; Khamenei: Foreign Foes Belong In "Depths" Of Persian Gulf; Jewish Community In London Reacts To Stabbing Attack; Sinaloa Governor Indicted On Drug Trafficking Charges; LIV Golf Seeks New Investment After Losing Saudi Funding; NYT Magazine Names The Top 30 Living American Songwriters; Elon Musk Testifies For Third Day In OpenAI Trial; Aired 12-1p ET
Aired April 30, 2026 - 12:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
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[12:00:48]
ZAIN ASHER, CNN ANCHOR: Coming to you live from New York, I'm Zain Asher.
BIANNA GOLODRYGA, CNN ANCHOR: And I'm Bianna Golodryga. You are watching the second hour of "One World."
Pete Hegseth and Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff General Dan Caine, are back on Capitol Hill, asking the Senate Armed Services Committee to
support a $1.5 trillion budget for the Department of Defense. That record request would help pay for the so-called Golden Dome defense system, more
warships, plus raises and recruitment.
ASHER: In addition to talking dollars, Hegseth also touted the success of the mission in Iran.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
PETE HEGSETH, U.S. SECRETARY OF DEFENSE: As I said yesterday, and I'll say it again today, the biggest adversary we face at this point are the
reckless naysayers and defeatist words of congressional Democrats and some Republicans.
Defeatists from the cheap seats who two months in seek to undermine the incredible efforts that have been undertaken and the historic nature of
taking on a 47-year threat with the courage no other president has had to great success and great opportunity for preventing Iran from having a
nuclear weapon.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ASHER: Let's take a live look at the White House for you. Sources of out CNN that President Trump is soon going to be briefed on updated military
options for Iran. This marks the latest sign that Trump is keeping his options open as negotiations clearly remain at this point in time at a
stalemate.
CNN also told the president is considering an extension of the U.S. naval blockade of Iranian ports.
GOLODRYGA: Let's go straight to Kevin Liptak live at the White House. So, the President being informed once again updated on all of his potential
options, including resuming kinetic strikes against Iran, but it does appear from what we've heard, from what we've been reporting, what the
President has said specifically, that he is open and comfortable with keeping the blockade in place for longer.
KEVIN LIPTAK, CNN SENIOR WHITE HOUSE REPORTER: Right. And that actually seems as if it's a strategy at the moment to really try and inflict as much
economic damage on Iran as he can.
He has asked his advisors to prepare for an extended blockade of the Strait of Hormuz. And when you talk to American officials, they suggest that their
information shows that Iran's economy would collapse within days or weeks, if that waterway remains blockaded, they say that the unsold oil that is
inside of Iran's energy infrastructure would cause it to be destroyed.
Now, there are certainly risks for President Trump as well if this is to remain in place. And the volatility that we've seen in the energy markets
just this morning, I think, is evidence of that. Obviously, we've seen the President's approval ratings drop. This war is unpopular among the American
people. And it has now exceeded his own timeline. He said that it wouldn't last any longer than six weeks, and we're now in the eighth week of this
conflict.
The president has appeared reluctant, including just yesterday, to resume the bombing campaign. He seems aware that that could pose the risk of
retaliation on the part of Iran towards Gulf States, towards energy infrastructure in the Gulf, but nonetheless, he will be briefed today on
some of those updated options from the commander of Central Command as well as the chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff General Dan Caine.
It was interesting yesterday listening to President Trump talk about these negotiations say that they will resume telephonically. He doesn't want to
send the negotiating team back on the plane for 18 hours to Islamabad to talk to the Iranians through the Pakistani mediators about some of the
proposals that are on the table.
The Pakistanis at least seem to believe that the Iranians will come back sometime this week with an updated plan, with an updated proposal. And then
I guess it was remain to be seen whether the president thinks that that is a good enough offer to send the team back to Pakistan.
He also suggested that after this 90-minute phone call yesterday that he had with Vladimir Putin, that the Russians are offering some assistance. He
said that Putin has said that he could help with taking shipment of the highly enriched uranium. That remains a sticking point in these
negotiations, what becomes of the more than 400 kilograms of highly enriched uranium that's believed to be buried underground.
[12:05:14]
You remember that Russia played a role in that in the 2015 Obama-era agreement taking shipment of some of Iran's uranium, but the president
seemed to shrug that off yesterday, saying that in his view Putin would do better to focus on ending the war in Ukraine than offering help in ending
the Iran war.
GOLODRYGA: All right. Kevin Liptak, live for us at the White House. Thank you.
ASHER: All right. A dramatic day for oil markets amid concerns that the Iran war could choke supplies for months earlier. Brent Crude oil prices
hit its highest mark since 2022, at one point climbing at around $126 a barrel.
GOLODRYGA: Meantime, U.S. gas prices have also hit a four-year high. The average now $4.30 a gallon.
ASHER: Let's discuss all of this with David Goldman.
I mean, listen, there is some good news here that -- that -- and oil prices since come down from that 126 high. However, they're still obviously very
elevated.
And this does mean more pain, not just the pump for ordinary Americans, but higher energy costs, transportation costs, higher food prices, traveling,
ticket prices are also going to be on the rise as well, David.
DAVID GOLDMAN, CNN BUSINESS SENIOR REPORTER: Yes. You're doing my job better than I can say. And that was a really good summary. That was great.
I --- I -- I think that's exactly what people need to take away from this is that, you know, as these prices continue to go higher and higher, you
know, that's not just more pain at the pump, it's more pain for everything because everything that comes on a truck uses diesel and those are at four-
year highs as well.
And then think about all of the things that are made with oil, all the little feed stocks, those chemicals that make plastics.
Well, there are Asian factories right now that are shutting down because they don't have the parts and the chemicals that they need to make the
stuff that we buy.
And so even if the war was going to end today, and it sounds like what Kevin is saying is that it is not going to do that. But if it were, we
would still have tremendous amounts of price pain for months and months to come.
So, this is a problem that has already kind of the die is cast and now we're going to be faced with this for quite some time.
ASHER: Can I just say, David, the reason why I love having you on the show is because you have such a soothing voice that even though you're telling
me the world is about to end.
GOLODRYGA: The smile too.
ASHER: I feel so calm. I'm like, you know what? It's going to be OK.
GOLODRYGA: Yes.
GOLDMAN: Listen --
ASHER: Thank you. Your delivery is so lovely.
GOLODRYGA: It's a form of therapy, David.
GOLDMAN: Bianna is hugging her coffee. Everything's going to be fine.
ASHER: It's so cozy. You know, it's really good. Thank you for that. We have to have -- guys, can we have him on every day? Thank you. Good for my
nervous system.
GOLDMAN: I'm here for you.
GOLODRYGA: Yes. You may feel better, David. Great to have you on.
GOLDMAN: Thanks for having me.
GOLODRYGA: Well, as war with the U.S. and Israel nears the 60-day mark, Iran's tone is becoming increasingly defiant.
According to state media, the country's supreme leader is warning there's no place for foreign forces except, quote, the depths of its water. Mojtaba
Khamenei hasn't been seen publicly now in seven weeks.
ASHER: And a senior military official has reportedly threatened to respond to further U.S. bombing with long and painful strikes. Iran's top judge is
also making inflammatory statements to claiming executions reflect legitimate demands of the people.
Karim Sadjadpour is a CNN global affairs analyst, a senior fellow at the Carnegie Endowment for International Peace. And the man I turned to for all
things Iran related.
Karim, great to have you on the program as well.
So once again, we hear, we don't see, we hear from the Supreme Leader, Mojtaba Khamenei, claiming that the grip on the Strait will bring economic
progress.
When we look at the reality though in Iran right now, inflation is at 70 percent. The real hit a record low.
Is his threshold for pain at this point higher than his father's? Or is this a scenario where they're really starting to feel the squeeze? How are
you interpreting this?
KARIM SADJADPOUR, CNN GLOBAL AFFAIRS ANALYST: It's a great question, Bianna. And what's significant is that we haven't seen Mojtaba Khamenei
since he was named supreme leader. And we haven't even heard his voice. So that unto itself is pretty significant that are sensibly the most powerful
man in Iran hasn't been seen or heard from.
And his messages publicly are always bellicose, always projecting strength. But in reality, when you speak to people in Tehran, this is a society and
an economy which even before this war had been decimated.
We saw last January massive national protests because of the country's increasing economic bankruptcy. And obviously this war has only amplified
those economic vulnerabilities. So, there is a huge gap here between Iran's public statements projecting strength and confidence and the realities of
an economy which is -- is -- is really floundering.
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ASHER: As we know, President Trump is set to receive a briefing from U.S. Central Command, just really on the military options in terms of dealing
with Iran.
Karim, can you hear me? Because I saw you touch your earpiece there.
SADJADPOUR: Yes, yes. Yes.
ASHER: OK. Good. So, just in terms of what those options A are and, B, what is actually going to get Iran back to the negotiation table in a way that
allows the U.S. to have the most leverage?
What makes sense in terms of President Trump's options at this point? Because obviously this is an existential threat for Iran. And that -- that
means that they are going to be willing to hold on for as long as it takes.
SADJADPOUR: So, Zain, the way I think about this, the metaphor I think about is essentially two adversaries with their hands on one another's
throats. Iran is trying to choke the global economy.
It's obviously its entire strategy is to spike the price of oil. So American citizens will put pressure on President Trump to end this war. And
in retaliation, President Trump has his hands on Iran's throat trying to choke the Iranian economy and trying to force this regime to capitulate.
And the process is it's obviously a test of wills. It's a test of resolve. And that process on its own could take many more weeks if not months.
And so I think President Trump is trying to expedite that process, trying to get Iran to the negotiating table by threatening more military action.
Doesn't seem however that there are going to be any silver bullets which quickly end this war.
You know, my view is that we're -- we're probably looking at months ahead of this -- this test of resolve. And even when and if we get back to the
negotiating table, we're probably looking at months of negotiations based on what we know of 47-year history of Iran's negotiating posture.
GOLODRYGA: And as we've heard from the secretary of state, the president himself, Iran, they're very capable, very good negotiators given all of
their years of experience. There's reports of perhaps a new proposal that Iran will be presenting as soon as Friday.
But, Karim, going back to your earlier point that we have yet to see or hear from Mojtaba Khamenei at this point so many weeks later, does that
tell you -- are you hearing from sources? Because there are rumors that -- that he may not even be alive or be in a position of making decisions.
And if he's not the one making decisions, is it the IRGC head Ahmad Vahidi who is in charge right now?
SADJADPOUR: So, Bianna, as an institution, the institution that is ruling Iran now is the Revolutionary Guards. When this regime began in 1979, it
was the clergy, the clerics who were ruling Iran.
And over the last two decades, the country has transformed from a clerical dictatorship to a military dictatorship.
Now, when Mojtaba's father, Ayatollah Ali Khamenei was ruling, he was still at the top of that power pyramid. It was a cleric ruling Iran, but all of
his most important appointees were revolutionary guard commanders.
Now, what is frankly not clear from afar is to what extent is Mojtaba actively involved in major decisions. We don't really know the state of his
health. There's a lot of mixed rumors about that. But yes, indeed, we know that Ahmad Vahidi, Revolutionary Guard commander
is an important player. Mohammad-Bagher Ghalibaf, current speaker of parliament.
When you look at, let's say, the top 10, 15 -- top 10 or 15 men ruling Iran, probably two-thirds, three quarters of them are -- are men who have
military backgrounds, not clerics.
And one additional thing I'd like to say here, Bianna, is that when people talk about the Iranian regime being great negotiators, you know, my
response to that is that it's easy to be a tough negotiator when you don't care about the well-being of your people.
If you're willing to subject --
GOLODRYGA: True.
SADJADPOUR: -- your people to enormous hardship, rather than make any compromise, well, you can say that's being a tough negotiator, but you're
not really advancing the -- the interests or well-being of your nation.
ASHER: Yes. That is such an important point, Karim. I'm so glad that you brought that up.
When this war started, we had so many analysts talk about the amount of weaponry and the extent of Iran's arsenal, you know, various predictions in
terms of the number of drones it had, ballistic missiles. Then a lot of people said that they could probably only go two months.
[12:15:04]
Are you surprised that Iran has actually managed to last this long? And what does it say about just the extent of their arsenal, in reality,
compared to what a lot of analysts had predicted at the start of the war?
SADJADPOUR: You know, Zain, in the aftermath of October 7th, the Hamas attack on Israel, many people were, including the Israelis were surprised
to see that Hamas had spent its resources building miles of tunnels under Gaza.
And I think that's been one of the surprises of this war with Iran is the extent to which Iran has also built these facilities, not only nuclear
facilities, but also what they call missile cities these, you know, huge areas very deep underground and hardened and very difficult for U.S. or
Israeli bombs to reach.
And so that is, you know, one way in which this regime has spent the nation's resources. That's what -- that's why you see, you know, protests
above ground, but underground, they have these hardened missile facilities which are manufacturing missiles and drones.
And -- and yes, indeed, I think that the estimates of to what extent the United States and Israel managed to destroy those facilities is -- is
perhaps been exaggerated.
We know that they retain perhaps 50 percent, maybe a little less than that capacity, but they are also manufacturing drones and missiles as if they're
automobiles.
GOLODRYGA: Yes. Having said all of that though, it's still going to be an extremely heavy lift for the regime to rebuild everything that has already
been destructed, especially given the state of the economy right now.
And most importantly, Karim, that you're so right to note the Iranian people themselves, it is now going to be five months that I believe they
have no internet access in this country. And I think that is quite telling in terms of how the regime fears, perhaps what the -- what the people of
Iran may do at a certain point if they're pushed far enough.
Karim Sadjadpour, thank you so much. Always great to have you on.
SADJADPOUR: Thank you both.
ASHER: All right. London's chief rabbi told the BBC that if you are Jewish, you are not safe in Britain.
His come -- his comments come one day after two Jewish men was stabbed in a neighborhood in North London. The prime minister visited the area and was
heckled.
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(CHANTING)
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ASHER: Police say, the Golders Green neighborhood home to many people of the Jewish faith, has been targeted by a wave of violence in recent weeks.
GOLODRYGA: Yes. That includes an arson fire and a synagogue attack. Lawmakers are fast-tracking nearly 34 million more dollars in funding for
security in those specific areas.
The prime minister vowed to strengthen police presence in Jewish communities. He spoke a short time ago.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
KEIR STARMER, BRITISH PRIME MINISTER: People are scared. Scared to show who they are in their community. Scared to go to synagogue and practice their
religion. Scared to go to university as a Jew. To send their children to school as a Jew. To tell their colleagues that they are Jewish.
Even to use our NHS. Nobody should live like that in Britain, but Jews do.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GOLODRYGA: That is the sad reality.
And CNN's Salma Abdelaziz reports from Golders Green.
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SALMA ABDELAZIZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Prime Minister Keir Starmer is just a few feet away from us right now visiting Jewish Volunteer ambulance
services.
As you can see, he's been met by an angry crowd. They've been chanting "traitor." They've been calling him a "Jew harmer."
There's a great deal of frustration and anger in this community here in Golders Green after an attack took place yesterday. Two people were
stabbed. It was declared a terrorist incident by police, but it's not the first, it is one of a series of attacks against the Jewish community here
in England. And Prime Minister Keir Starmer has said that it is something he is going to address.
But clearly, he has not addressed it well enough for the crowd that is here. He was, earlier today, leaving with the justice departments of this
country. He wants the response, the criminal justice's response to be swift and agile.
As he told those government officials earlier today, also 25 million pounds has been allocated for additional security services for Jewish communities
to keep them safe.
But more needs to be done. Anytime you speak to members of this community here in Golders Green and North London, they will tell you they simply do
not feel safe.
[12:20:01]
Salma Abdelaziz, CNN, London.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
GOLODRYGA: Well, the governor of the Mexican state of Sinaloa and nine other officials, have been charged with drug trafficking in New York.
ASHER: Yes. Ruben Rocha Moya, who has led Sinaloa since 2021 is accused of helping a faction of the Sinaloa cartel bring drugs into the United States.
In exchange, prosecutors alleged that he received help from cartel members to get elected.
CNN's Valeria Leon is reporting for us for Mexico -- from Mexico City. Valeria, what more can you tell us?
VALERIA LEON, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, this is an unprecedented moment. It's the first time the U.S. Justice Department has publicly accused
sitting Mexican officials and politicians of ties to organized crime.
And this isn't just a legal case. It's quickly turning into a major diplomatic flashpoint between both countries.
From Mexico's side, President Claudia Sheinbaum is pushing back. She said there is not enough evidence and questioned the quality of what was
presented by the U.S. Justice Department.
Earlier today, during her press conference, President Sheinbaum even showed part of what U.S. authority sent, including a simple sheet of paper with
handwritten amounts, allegedly linked to payments.
And she took it a step forward, suggesting there may be political motives behind these accusations.
Let's take a listen of what she said this morning.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CLAUDIA SHEINBAUM, MEXICAN PRESIDENT (through translator): We are not going to cover for anyone who has committed a crime. However, if there is no
clear evidence, it is evident that the objective of these accusations by the Department of Justice is political.
It must be absolutely clear, under no circumstances, will we allow the interference or intervention of a foreign government in decisions that
belong exclusively to the people of Mexico.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEON: And the response isn't just coming from the president. Mexico's attorney general also criticized U.S. authorities for making the case
public, arguing this kind of information should remain confidential during an ongoing legal process.
Sinaloa governor Ruben Rocha Moya is accused of having ties to organized crime. And U.S. federal prosecutors have charged Rocha Moya, along with
nine other officials, with alleged links to the notorious Sinaloa cartel.
The indictment claims he abused his position as governor to protect one faction of the cartel known as Los Chapitos, the sons of Joaquin "El Chapo"
Guzman.
And according to the U.S. Justice Department, that group helped facilitate the flow of drugs, including fentanyl, into the United States.
Prosecutors also alleged cartel members helped Rocha Moya rise to power by intimidating political rivals.
So, the U.S. is now seeking his extradition, a rare and aggressive move from Washington that has triggered a strong and public rejection from
Mexican authorities, making this one of the most serious tests in U.S.- Mexico relations in decades.
Bianna, Zain.
ASHER: All right. Valeria Leon, thank you so much. Appreciate it.
GOLODRYGA: Well, King Charles and Queen Camilla are on the last day of their four-day state visit to the United States.
In the last hour, they laid a wreath at the tomb of the Unknown Soldier at Arlington National Cemetery.
ASHER: Yes. It was such a poignant moment meant to commemorate the fallen and honor the long partnership between the U.S. and the U.K.
Also, the last hour, the royals said goodbye to President Trump and Melania Trump at the White House.
GOLODRYGA: All right. Still to come in "One World, will LIV Golf live to see another tournament after losing Saudi investment? We'll take a closer
look.
ASHER: Plus, some testy exchanges in a trial that could reshape the future of artificial intelligence. More on how this rivalry between tech giants,
Elon Musk and Sam Altman, is now playing out in court.
GOLODRYGA: And later, some agree and some are baffled. "The New York Times Magazine" published the list of the 30 greatest living American
songwriters. Did your picks make the cut? We'll speak to a critic who helped make the list.
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ASHER: All right. The war in Iran may be having an impact in the sports world. LIV Golf is seeking new investment after its backer, Saudi Arabia,
pulls out at the end of the season.
GOLODRYGA: The league has announced that it will move towards an investment model with multiple partners. When it launched in 2022, it aimed to rival
the PGA Tour as the world's top destination for pro golf and lured some top players with huge sums of money.
CNN World Sport's Don Riddell joins us now from Atlanta.
There was a lot of backlash at the beginning of LIV when we had some of these top golfers join the organization. And now, the fact that Saudi is
pulling out the money, what does this say about this project?
It's -- I mean, hard to describe it is anything but a failure at this point, Don.
DON RIDDELL, CNN WORLD SPORT: Well, we're about to find out, aren't we? Because now it's being basically tended to the market to see if anybody
wants to take over. And so this is the moment where we'll realize if it's popular, if it's a swimmer, if it can be successful or not.
The indications are that it might struggle. Remember, the Saudis set this up through their public investment fund known as PIF back in 2022. And it
was hugely controversial when it burst onto the scene. It really split the world of professional men's golf in half. And it was described as something
of a civil war at the time.
It was highly contentious. A lot of things were said, lawsuits were filed, a lot of feelings were hurt. And then it kind of went on its way with some
of the PGA Tour's top players playing for LIV. And as you have indicated, earning huge amounts of money.
Before the war in Iran, I think we can say that cracks were starting to murk to -- to appear within LIV. I mean, for example, Brooks Koepka left
the tour at the end of last year. And he's now back on the PGA Tour. He's had to spend, I'll give, reportedly $90 million to get himself back onto
the PGA Tour.
Patrick Reed, former Masters Champion, also left LIV earlier this year. And he's now trying to get back onto the PGA Tour via his performances on the
DP World Tour.
And now there are more. And now this, the end of the Saudi investment.
It is going to be fascinating to see what will happen even this season. I mean, literally just this week before this announcement, we had the
tournament in New Orleans postponed until later in the year. It was supposed to have been played in the summer, now apparently in the fall.
And what is going to happen to the big names who remain on LIV? Guys like Bryson DeChambeau, Jon Rahm. Are they going to stick around? If there are
new partners, if there are new investors, are they going to put anything like the amount of money that the Saudis have been putting in?
And if not, will it remain attractive to those players? Will they want to stick around? There are so many things yet to play out. It's hard to see
what the future for LIV is going to be.
But there is a possibility that LIV might be no more at the end of this year. And if it does continue, I think it is going to look very different.
[12:30:02]
GOLODRYGA: All right. Don Riddell, thank you so much.
ASHER: All right. Still to come.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
FATIMA YOUSUFI, GOALKEEPER, AFGHAN WOMEN UNITED: Afghan women are strong and resilient. And we will not be silenced.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ASHER: A landmark ruling by FIFA and what it means for women soccer players from Afghanistan who are living and playing while in exile. That story
coming up.
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GOLODRYGA: All right. Welcome back to "One World." I'm Bianna Golodryga.
ASHER: And I'm Zain Asher.
"The New York Times" released a list of what it calls the 30 Greatest Living American Songwriters.
GOLODRYGA: Some are obvious choices who have multiple Grammys or nominations like Dolly Parton, Carole King and Mariah Carey.
Other choices have critics scratching their heads. Some of the list's biggest names described the intricacies of creating original music.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TAYLOR SWIFT, SINGER-SONGWRITER: It's still such a mystery to me, even though I've -- I've been -- I've been writing songs for so long.
JAY-Z, RAPPER/SONGWRITER: It's a flow state. It's like I can't explain it. All happened upon a word. And I'm like, man, I don't even know how I knew
that word.
MARIAH CAREY, SINGER/SONGWRITER: There's some songs that I've written and I started on the piano. I will just play a little bit and that happened with
"All I Want For Christmas Is You."
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ASHER: Time now for The Exchange. Joining us live now is a critic for "The New York Times Magazine" who helped shape the best American songwriter
list, Danyel Smith. Danyel, thank you so much for being with us.
It is so subjective, right, to define really the essence of a truly great song and a songwriter. For me, you know, I know when I've listened to a
great song when my whole body feels the energy and the emotion of what the songwriter is trying to convey. Like, I can listen to it. It doesn't matter
what the genre is, whether it's rock, whether it's hip-hop, whether it's funk, whether it's R&B.
[12:35:00]
If I listen to a song and my body feels the heartbreak, the pain, the joy, you know, all of that, if I feel it within my body, then I know that I've
listened to a great song. How do you define a great song, Danyel?
DANYEL SMITH, CRITIC, NEW YORK TIMES MAGAZINE: I mean, I think we have a lot in common. I think we do. I think as a -- as a pure fan, I think that's
the way I feel. I've probably been to more than two or 3,000, maybe more shows over the course of my life.
I did the Mariah Carey interview here. I did the interview with Babyface. I know what it feels like to be in the audience or to hear something on your
ear -- earbuds and just have it take over your whole soul.
But I think as someone who's been thinking though about music for a long time really hard, as a profession, I think you all have to ask yourself, or
at least I ask myself, and I know a bunch of us at "The New York Times," asked ourselves is, does a particular song or set up songs or catalog of
songs, is there artistic merit there? Is there -- is there artistic commitment? Is there -- is there a consistency? Is there experimentation?
Is there -- like what is going on with somebody like Nile Rodgers when he creates "Le Freak?" What is going on?
And so we spent hours talking with, I have to tell you too, it's the most fun I ever had in my life. And I want a lot of these kinds of commitments.
GOLODRYGA: Yes. I mean, talk about a fun assignment here.
But one that, Danyel, really tests you not just because you have to take yourself out of your specific genre of music you're drawn to. I mean, you
have to appreciate other genres of music, perhaps you don't listen to as much or not drawn to, but understand and appreciate the significance of the
songwriter, of the artist for that particular genre that many times crosses over lines.
And as somebody who has crossed over many lines, I want to go back to your interview with Mariah Carey. Because she's been able to break through
multiple, multiple lines here, multiple genres in music.
And it was frustrating for me watching the interview that you conducted with her that she still doesn't get the credit as a songwriter that she
truly deserves. We think of her as a singer, as a diva, as an artist, but a songwriter, she really is.
And it's great that she's on this list, but you wrote that the messy mythology of the diva status has sort of damaged that vision, that role for
her.
Talk about that aspect of it and her contribution to music.
SMITH: I think that Mariah Carey, she's a favorite of mine and not just because I love the way she makes me feel as a songwriter and as a
performer, but also just because of her ability to actually write songs.
I love the way she talked about her actual process and -- and how she actually tries to get at emotions, like, it's amazing.
The thing about Mariah Carey is, and correct me where I'm wrong here, but she literally has written 18 number one pop songs. There's nobody that has
that accomplishment other than John Lennon and Paul McCartney and still are the Beatles.
And so the fact that we sort of as a collective culture --
ASHER: Your dog agrees, by the way.
(CROSSTALK)
SMITH: -- lifted Mariah Carey up to that level of being is insane.
And so I was -- I -- when I interviewed her, I just really wanted her to talk about the fact that she has been overlooked. She's alluded to it many
times. I can think of a Charlie Rose interview from 20 years ago or more, where she really was like, what do I have to do to get credit for being a
great songwriter?
And the thing is, when -- when we call women like Mariah Carey a diva, sometimes it can sound like, oh, it's a -- it's a queenly sort of
adjective, but it does other kinds of work. And it takes away from sometimes the creativity and the commitment to craft that someone like
Mariah Carey actually has.
ASHER: You know, your dog in the background also agrees with you.
GOLODRYGA: Big Mariah -- big Mariah fan.
SMITH: I have -- I have a very (INAUDIBLE). Oh, my god. She's the best songwriter. I'm so sorry for that.
ASHER: So funny. So, you know, Danyel, I think that songs are very similar to movies and that in order for a movie to work, so many things have to go
right. You have to have great acting. You've got to have a great script. You've got to have a great director. You've got to have great producers.
You've got to have great editing. Like you can have the best actors, but if the editing is mediocre, the movie is not going to work.
I think that songs are very similar. You need great lyrics, right? You need a great producer. You need a great beat. You need a performance that is
really emotional.
Where do lyrics -- just in terms of what makes a song truly great in the hierarchy of that, where do lyrics come in that list, do you think?
[12:40:03]
SMITH: I mean, lyrics are the poetry. I mean, you -- you can feel the music. You can feel the instruments. You can feel the melody. But, man,
somebody has to be saying something. Somebody has to be singing something. Like what is Dolly Parton without the lyrics? I wanted the New Kids in The
Block.
Somebody who's on our list at "The New York Times" this -- this week is -- is a rapper/singer/everything, Young Thug. And the way he talks about his
life and his lifestyle and his feelings, man, his lyrics are -- they're just genius.
Diane Warren, who writes these big pop ballads for people like late Whitney Houston.
It's like these -- these kinds of words and sentences and clauses and rhymes and the alliteration or not, the assonance or not. Like it's -- it's
-- a lot of times, it's I'm all for the melody I am, but maybe as a writer myself. I am a little bit probably too much into the lyrics.
ASHER: The lyrics, of course. You know, just quickly, one of the things you touched on, and I think it was in your first answer, was that a key
ingredient to make somebody a great lyricist is consistency.
It's one thing just to have like a one hit wonder and be able to do it once, but to be able to write a great song over and over again is
something. I mean, that takes so many miracles to be able to achieve that.
And luckily, your list was just the living --
GOLODRYGA: Yes.
ASHER: -- living American songwriters.
But if you had included those who have passed away, those who have crossed over, I mean, I don't even -- I mean, Bianna is a huge fan of Tupac. I'm
sure he would have made it on that.
GOLODRYGA: Oh, yes. And -- and, you know, you -- I -- I love Zain dancing to music, but we have confined spaces here. You should see the bruises on
my leg from when this girl gets down.
But I love -- I love the credit you give Mariah. Honestly, 18 songs, I mean, she deserves -- she deserves to be recognized for so much more than
she already is.
Danyel Smith, this was fun.
ASHER: Thanks, Danyel.
We'll be right back with more after the short break.
SMITH: Thanks so much.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
ASHER: All right. Let's take a quick look and see how U.S. markets are doing. Green across the board. Dow is up about one and a half percent. S&P
500, up about half of a percent. And the NASDAQ up ever so slightly. This is your business breakout.
GOLODRYGA: The price of oil surged to its highest levels in four years after reports that President Trump is considering an extended U.S. blockade
of Iranian ports. Brent Crude, the benchmark for the international oil market jumped to more than $126 a barrel before falling back.
[12:45:11]
ASHER: After capping his final policy meeting on Wednesday, Jerome Powell now has two weeks left as chairman of the U.S. Federal Reserve. But even
after an eight-year term and some countless attacks from President Trump, Powell isn't going far. He'll stay on the Fed's rate setting committee,
serving out a concurrent term as governor.
GOLODRYGA: Elon Musk is back on the witness stand in his lawsuit against OpenAI. Musk insists that the company betrayed its initial nonprofit
mission and also him by creating a for-profit subsidiary. Musk also said that he want a control over OpenAI since he provided almost all of the
funding. OpenAI says the lawsuit is Musk's effort to weaken a competitor.
CNN's A.I. correspondent Hadas Gold joins us now from Oakland, California. So, once again, we have the world's richest man taking the stand.
And it's interesting because OpenAI's lawyers have argued that, in fact, there have been other contributors, others that have donated and added more
money to the company than Elon Musk even has. I guess this part of their argument that he is not owed as much as he is claiming to be.
What are we expecting to hear from him today?
HADAS GOLD, CNN A.I. CORRESPONDENT: Yes. Elon Musk is on about our eight (PH) of his testimony. We are now on to the stage where his own attorneys
are doing the redirects. We do expect him to wrap up his time on the stand quite soon.
And he's testifying in this case that could have huge implications for the A.I. industry, could completely change the course for one of the biggest
names in the game, the ChatGPT maker, OpenAI.
And so what we've been hearing is each side, as there have been questioning, Musk trying to prove their point, prove their version of
events, was Musk deceived in donating $38 million to what he thought was going to stay as a nonprofit and then turn into a for-profit, kind of under
his nose? Or was he always aware that OpenAI could potentially have a for- profit subsidiary? Did he even support that idea? Did he even advocate for that idea? And is he now just bringing this lawsuit because he didn't get
complete control of the company and because now he has a competitor, xAI, which is his own AI company?
Yesterday, Elon Musk's point telling the court, I was a fool saying that he was essentially gave OpenAI free funding to create a startup and that they
stole a charity.
One piece of evidence that was brought up by Elon Musk's lawyers were messages between himself and OpenAI CEO Sam Altman in 2022. After Microsoft
gave a big investment, OpenAI was valued at $20 billion.
And Musk told Altman, this feels like a bait-and-switch. And Altman replies, I agree, this feels bad. Then say they -- they offered him equity.
He declined to take it. And Musk saying that it essentially felt like a bribe.
But we're also seeing evidence from OpenAI side of things, including emails, meeting notes where Elon Musk himself seemed to advocate for a for-
profit subsidiary saying that it was necessary in order to be able to get enough revenue to be able to pay for how expensive A.I. is.
All that compute, all those well-paid research scientists saying that that was necessary to be able to compete against the likes of Google, even
pointing out at one point he directed his senior advisors to open a for- profit register, a for-profit corporation in OpenAI's name.
Elon Musk's response to that was that he had no problem with having a for- profit subsidiary as long as it was a capped profit and that, you know, the profits were controlled. And it feels like that's not the case anymore. And
that's why he feels as though this charity has been stolen away from under him.
The questioning today has continued to have some tense moments and some fireworks. I don't think that Elon Musk is used to be talked this way, the
way that he is being questioned on the stand because few places are left, I feel like, these days where everybody is on equal footing.
One of those is in a courtroom where Elon Musk is being forced to answer yes or no questions. That's led to some test exchanges, but he will soon be
wrapping up his testimony.
And then we're going to hear from some of the other biggest names in tech in the ensuing days and weeks, including Microsoft's CEO Satya Nadella and,
of course, OpenAI CEO Sam Altman. Guys.
GOLODRYGA: All right. You'll be covering it all for us. Hadas Gold, thank you.
ASHER: All right. Still to come. Women and soccer players from Afghanistan, living and playing in exile since the return of the Taliban. Now, have a
pathway back to official international competition. That story, ahead.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[12:50:49]
ASHER: All right. In a landmark decision, FIFA is now officially recognizing the Afghanistan women's soccer team in exile. This allows them
to officially represent their country in international competitions.
GOLODRYGA: Dozens of players have played as a refugee squad since the Taliban came back to power in 2021.
CNN's Amanda Davies talks about what it means to be one Afghan player, Fatima Yousufi.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
YOUSUFI: Yes. It means everything. It's the results of years of struggle and sacrifices. And it means the -- the results of not giving up.
For me, it's not just about football. It's about being seen, being heard, and finally being recognized.
AMANDA DAVIES, CNN WORLD SPORT: Did you ever give up hope that you weren't going to make it back onto the international stage?
YOUSUFI: Definitely, yes. So I had that hope from the very beginning, like, even the time that I was in Afghanistan.
You know, and I'm super proud of this, which is happening because our all team members, like, all of us never give up on our dreams. And even though
every struggle that's came up on our way, we never stopped playing. We never stopped, you know, dreaming about seeing our team on a global stage.
And this was always our dream to have our national team since the time that we got evacuated from Afghanistan.
And even though we lost a lot of things, like, families at first when we were evacuated, like, you know, our identity as a footballer on that time.
And, you know, with all those difficulties, again, we didn't stop playing. You know, it would have been easier to give up, but we didn't. And we
stepped together and that's why we are here.
DAVIES: Have you had chance to speak to -- to any family members, friends back at home in Afghanistan for their reaction to the news?
YOUSUFI: Everyone that I was in touch with from Afghanistan, they were all super happy. And that was, you know, a signal of hope for them as well. And
they were hopeful as well that one day they're going to achieve such achievement as well.
And I'm very grateful that this change happened. And it's just the beginning.
DAVIES: Yes. And I know that the message very much from yourself and -- and your teammates scattered across the world has been, you are not just doing
this for yourselves and -- and for your chance to represent your country on the international stage, but it's very much to -- to send a message to --
to women and girls back at home.
What is that message that you want to send?
YOUSUFI: So it's, you know, from us, it's always for the women of Afghanistan mostly, because the situation that they're facing right now.
So, it's mostly like that Afghan women are strong and resilient and we will not be silenced. Give us the opportunity and we will show that what we are
capable of. That's our message.
[12:55:05]
DAVIES: Have you allowed yourself to -- to stop and think what it would mean to -- to stand there in an Afghanistan women's national team shirt,
hearing that anthem in official competition again?
YOUSUFI: Definitely that will be amazing, you know. All those flashbacks that we are, you know, experienced before as well, which are national kids
and Afghanistan. And it would be incredible to see and to wear and to hear one more time all those achievements that we lost, but we gain it back.
So definitely it will be amazing. And I can't wait for that day to just, you know, experience that again.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
GOLODRYGA: All right. Well, that does it for "One World" today. I'm Bianna Golodryga..
ASHER: I'm Zain Asher. Thank you so much for watching. "Amanpour" is up next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[13:00:00]
END
