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One World with Zain Asher
U.S.-Iran Conflict Escalates Following 3rd Night of U.S. Strikes; Trump Replaces 20 Percent Strait of Hormuz Fee with Investment Deals; Ukraine Comes Under Russian Assault While Zelenskyy Visits Paris; Russia Escalates the War While Europe Stands with Ukraine; Trump Hosts Iraq's New Prime Minister at the White House; France Battles Multiple Wildfires Amid European Heat Wave. Aired 11a-12p ET
Aired July 14, 2026 - 11:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[11:00:00]
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
ZAIN ASHER, CNN HOST, ONE WORLD: All right, coming to you live from New York, I'm Zain Asher. You are watching "One World". Any moment now, U.S.
President Donald Trump will be greeting Iraq's New Prime Minister at the White House in the midst of the war that is rocking Iraq's neighbor Iran
right now.
And obviously that does have a ripple effect across the Middle East, Gulf nations as well, being brought into this too. We'll bring you that meeting
as soon as it happens. Businessman Ali al-Zaidi came into office with the backing of the U.S. President after months of political deadlock following
parliamentary elections there.
The Strait of Hormuz remains a major flashpoint as the U.S. and Iran continues the trade strikes. U.S. Central Command says that the latest
attacks targeted Iran's ability to attack commercial shipping, and it says the U.S. will resume its naval blockade of Iranian ports just hours from
now.
President Trump earlier posted that the U.S. would become the guardian of the strait, and would charge ships for passage.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA: We are just going forward. We're attacking them tonight, and we're taking out all of their
capability for anything having to do with the strait, with the Hormuz Strait, and I think in the end we will end up dis-controlling the whole
thing.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ASHER: Britain is now rejecting the idea of any charges for the strait, and the International Maritime Organization earlier said passage through the
crucial waterway should remain free in accordance with international law. While Iran says that hundreds of non-Iranian vessels have sought its
authorization to use the strait in recent weeks.
Meantime, Iran is also striking back at U.S. allies in the region with drones and missiles. CNN's Betsy Klein is live now from the White House.
So, Betsy, obviously, so much to talk through here, so much to digest. But just in terms of this upcoming meeting, we've got between this new Iraqi
Prime Minister and President Trump, as I mentioned, the U.S. Administration did back this particular prime minister.
But just in terms of what they're going to discuss, obviously we know that Iran and Iraq have had a complicated history. But the issue of Iran will
loom large in these talks, partly because of those Iranian-backed militias that Donald Trump really wants Iraq to sort of wield back and lessen the
sort of influence and power of. Just talk to us about that.
BETSY KLEIN, CNN SENIOR WHITE HOUSE REPORTER: Well Zain, I think it's fair to say that Iran and this conflict is going to be the crux of these
discussions, as the Iraqi Prime Minister is likely to press President Trump with the same questions that many of his regional allies have on the
strategy going forward.
As we have seen so much escalation in recent days, the U.S. launching a third consecutive night of strikes against Iran. And Iran responding in
kind in with strikes in neighboring Gulf countries. Now, the Strait of Hormuz, that critical oil thoroughfare remains the key point of contention
here.
Prior to this conflict, no one had full authority over this strait, but Iran has been using it as a key point of leverage here. They have
repeatedly targeted ships trying to traverse that waterway. President Trump announcing that the U.S. is going to resume its naval blockade of the
Strait of Hormuz for all ships going to and from Iranian ports.
Separately, he's also announced that the U.S. is planning to charge a 20 percent fee for commercial vessels traversing the Strait of Hormuz for what
he says is the U.S. providing security for those ships. Now, the president says that the U.S. will have control of the strait, but all of this is
raising a lot of questions because officials have previously questioned the legality of such a toll. Listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MARCO RUBIO, U.S. SECRETARY OF STATE: It's an international waterway. No country is allowed to charge tolls or fees on an international waterway.
That's existing international law. That's the way it is in international waterways all over the world, and that's the way we expect it'll be here.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: How strenuously will the U.S. fight to keep tolls out of the strait and keep any fees away from the future strait and commercial
traffic? And are you going to leave it to the Gulf states to kind of fight this battle?
[11:05:00]
J.D. VANCE, VICE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA: Well, first of all, we believe international waterways should be free of tolls.
TRUMP: We want it free. We don't want tolls. It's international. It's an international waterway.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
KLEIN: Now, CENTCOM says that this blockade will officially begin at 4o'clock Eastern Time this evening. That is about five hours from now local
time. But just as we think about the strategy going forward, I want to draw your attention to recent comments from President Trump on the memorandum of
understanding.
That is that now failed peace deal that they signed just about a month ago. And as the president signed that, he touted it at the time as an agreement
that achieves everything he had set out to accomplish. He said it reopened the Strait of Hormuz. It ended the fighting. It also prevented Iran from
ever getting a nuclear weapon.
But the president was asked about that memorandum of understanding yesterday, and he said, quote, it doesn't mean much. He said he would have
preferred to go straight to a deal, skip the memorandum of understanding process. So again, a lot of questions on what the path forward here is
going to be.
Certainly, likely to come up during these very high stakes meeting, Zain.
ASHER: All right, Betsy Klein, live for us there. Thank you so much. Let's take a closer look at these fast-moving developments. We've got CNN's
Stephen Collinson joining us live now from Washington D.C. Also with us, Max Boot, a Senior Fellow at the Council of Foreign Relations and a
Columnist for "The Washington Post".
Max, let me start with you because obviously we've seen members of the Trump Administration talk about the importance of free passage of vessels
in this international waterway. Obviously, the Strait of Hormuz, and the idea that you can have sort of Iran controlling one part of the waterway
and then the United States controlling another part that is closest to Oman and then charging fees.
I mean, just talk to us about how that would actually work in principle, but also how do we get back to the original goal of ensuring free and safe
passage for everyone, as we had on February 27th?
MAX BOOT, A SENIOR FELLOW AT THE COUNCIL OF FOREIGN RELATIONS: Yeah, I mean, I think you put your finger on it. Trump cited various reasons for
launching this war of choice against Iran, but at the end of the day, all he's really trying to do now is to get back to the status quo that existed
before he started the war on February 28th, when the Strait of Hormuz was open for all without fees.
And of course, Iran has found that it has tremendous leverage from closing the Strait of Hormuz, which is the waterway through which 20 percent of the
world's oil flows. Now, Trump thought he had a deal with the Iranians in middle of June to reopen.
ASHER: Looking at a -- Max, one second.
BOOT: Yeah.
ASHER: We're just looking at live pictures of the Iraqi Prime Minister, Prime Minister Al-Zaidi, arriving at the White House. He's scheduled to
have a bilateral meeting with the U.S. President, as I mentioned, the key issues that are going to be discussed here is not just economic
cooperation.
I mean, Iraq's priorities include infrastructure building and economic investment, but also on top of that, the key issue of Iran. One of Donald
Trump's priorities is to ensure that some of the Iranian-backed militias that operate in Iraq that they're disarmed, and so that's going to be a
topic of conversation, as well as how the new Iraqi Prime Minister manages to juggle having a good relationship with Washington, but not completely
alienating Iran as well.
So, Max, just sort of jumping off from that point. I know I was asking you about the Strait of Hormuz a second ago, but just because we got the Iraqi
Prime Minister, we just saw live pictures of him arriving. Can you just give us your thoughts on what the meeting is going to look like on the
agenda between these two men today?
BOOT: Well, as you suggested, obviously Iran will be a big part of the agenda, and I'm sure Trump will be pressing the Iraqi Prime Minister to
reduce Iran's influence within Iraq and to reduce Iraq's ties with Iran. I think all of that is unlikely to happen because, essentially, ever since
the U.S. toppled Saddam Hussein in 2003, Iran has been the most important political player in Iraq.
And it will remain that way just because of the geography that Iran is right next door. It's a larger and more powerful country, and it has lots
of Shiite militias in Iraq that are bankrolled by Iran's Islamic Revolutionary Guard Corps, controlled by the IRGC. So, I don't think any of
those things will really change.
But you know, Iraq is another one of these countries around the region that has become -- whose economy has become collateral damage to Donald Trump's
war against Iran, which obviously is now once again impeding oil exports, and that's going to affect Iraq as well as the as the Persian Gulf states.
[11:10:00]
ASHER: And I think we all got a sort of close-up view of just the sort of close relationship between Iran and Iraq, especially with the Shia
community, when we saw the Ayatollah's funeral procession, not just obviously going through Iran, but also Iraq as well, really highlighting, I
think, to the world just the Shia influence of Iran in the region, especially as it pertains to the Shia community in Iraq.
Stephen, let me bring you in because you recently wrote an analysis piece on obviously what's happening between the U.S. and Iran. And I'm going to
ask you the question you posed at the end of your piece, which is how on earth does Donald Trump get out of this?
STEPHEN COLLINSON, CNN POLITICS SENIOR REPORTER: There are no really good options for him to get out of it, and I think that it helps explain some of
these statements he's been coming out with over the last few days that you were playing, now suddenly saying that he's going to be leveraging tolls on
the Strait of Hormuz.
I think it betrays the absolute frustration that the president is in. As Max was saying, we are now back in a situation whereby the U.S. and Iran
are basically where they were before this memorandum of understanding was signed, a memorandum which Trump said a few weeks ago would bring peace to
the Middle East for the first time in 3,000 years, and now says is worth nothing.
And they are fighting the U.S. to get back to the position they were before the war started, with the strait reopened. So, this is at best a stalemate,
and I think what it reflects is the fact that throughout this war, the question that has not been asked by anyone in the administration, an
administration which seems to be dominated by Donald Trump's hunches and personality volatility, rather than a real policy process, is what happens
next if we take this course of action.
So, they started the war without really thinking about how Iran would react. They then did this memorandum of understanding with very loose and
undefined language, which Iran has interpreted as giving it control of the strait in perpetuity, so it's hardly surprising it's fighting to cement
that leverage.
Now they've put back on the blockade and they've started to again attack Iran. But the question that they still haven't explained is why would Iran
fold at this point, when it didn't fold, you know, during many more weeks of bombing a few months ago. So once again, the administration seems to be
flailing for solutions, but is still failing to come up with the key question which I asked there, and that's possibly because there isn't any
way out of this.
And the United States is going to be stuck in this situation at various levels of intensity for many weeks or months to come.
ASHER: And actually, Stephen and Max, President Trump actually just posted to Truth Social a moment ago, apparently changing his mind about the
shipping fees in the Strait of Hormuz. It was actually a long post, but essentially, he said, and I'm going to read it to our audience here.
I have decided to replace the 20 percent United States reimbursement fee with trade and investment deals that the various Gulf states will be making
into the United States. Those investments will be massive, but at the same time extraordinarily good for them and their future.
We are in this really sort of tricky situation whereby nothing that the president says at this point in time can really be taken at face value.
Whether it's this idea of 20 percent shipping fees, whether it's this idea of you know what I'm going to bomb desalination plants, then I'm going to
bomb Kharg Island or certain parts of Kharg Island.
I mean, just the fact that you know the president's words cannot be taken at face value, and this is not something that's new, of course, we've known
this for quite some time, but when you're dealing with a war of such great consequence, what does that mean for negotiations? I will ask it to Max,
and then Stephen, you can jump in on the back of that.
BOOT: Well, it obviously makes negotiations very difficult because the Iranians never know how seriously they can take anything that Trump says,
and you were just highlighting, you know, one of his reversals, you know, going from claiming that he's going to charge 20 percent fees on the Strait
of Hormuz yesterday, which is a harebrained idea because U.S. allies were not going to pay up, and now today he's disavowing it.
I mean, you've also seen a massive shift in the way that Trump talks about the Iranians, where you know a few weeks ago, he was saying they're nice
guys, very smart, moderate, you know, really have the interests of their country at heart and now he's calling them scum, low life, et cetera, et
cetera.
And so, the Iranians have basically realized that Trump blows hot and cold, and very little of it means very much. And I think that's part of the
reason why they are so intent on asserting their control over the Strait of Hormuz, because they view that as being a long-term guarantee of Iranian
security in a way too project power, whereas you know the promises that Trump makes are not worth the paper that they're written on.
[11:15:00]
ASHER: And Stephen, I'll have you jump in just in terms of responding to what Max was said there.
COLLINSON: Yeah, and I agree, and I think that it's worth reminding ourselves that this is a superpower that we're talking about here. This is
the most powerful country in the world, and its policies seem liable to change at any moment or any hour. And there doesn't seem to be any
strategic or logical process at work at all.
And that explains why the Iranians, in many ways, as Max was saying, are continuing to exert this leverage on the Strait of Hormuz, because I'm sure
they're convinced that in a few days, when the oil price keeps climbing, we see effects on the gasoline price in the United States.
That Trump is going to turn around and create a new narrative, which will say the pressure has worked, Iran has conceded, and we can go back to the
negotiating table. So, we just go further into this vicious cycle. And I think once again it underlines the fact that Trump is throwing out
solutions.
Often, I think he thinks aloud without necessarily giving them much thought ahead of time. That's probably the case with these tariffs, which is
something that's well in line with his worldview. He thinks that allies are there to be exploited as much as to be worked with.
So, I think, as you suggested, Zain, we should take what the president says most of the time in this crisis with a pinch of salt, because that is what
the history of the recent weeks has told us. But that doesn't get us any closer to getting out of this. It's not just a time to turn around and say,
well, the president doesn't know what he's doing for U.S. allies to crow and say, look, the U.S. is in disarray.
This is a crisis that's going to have very big global implications, not just for U.S. power, but for the economy and everything else. And there is
no real clear sign that anyone knows how to fix it.
ASHER: Yeah, and you know also worth mentioning that I mean it's become clear to all of us. I mean it was clear when it was first signed, but that
memorandum of understanding was put together so quickly, and the wording was so vague, and there were so many questions when it was first put
together and released.
And you know, I think a lot of people are realizing that the fact that it was going to collapse was probably already baked in to the memorandum of
understanding itself. I think a lot of people. The only surprise is that it happened as quickly as it did. Stephen Collinson, Max Boot, live for us.
Thank you so much. We'll have much more on all of this when we see this bilateral meeting with the U.S. President and the Iraqi Prime Minister. So
do stand by for that. All right. All eyes are on France for three very different reasons today. France's men's national team takes on Spain at the
World Cup semi-final.
Fans hope that star Kylian Mbappe can outshine Spain's 19-year-old fan of Lamine Yamal. Meantime, just south of Paris, firefighters are battling an
enormous wildfire that has scorched more than 1,800 hectares of forest. Investigators say it may have been set deliberately. And finally, today is
Bastille Day.
President Emmanuel Macron welcomed world leaders to Paris, including Ukraine's Volodymyr Zelenskyy, a record 6800 troops march, showing not only
France's strength but also European unity as well. This is Russia's steps up its already brutal assault in Ukraine. Clare Sebastian reports.
CLARE SEBASTIAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: There was that very overt show of force in Paris, as you see, a show of force and unity. President Macron, of
course, using the Bastille Day celebrations to showcase Europe's sort of increasing resolve to take charge of its own defense amid the U.S. of
course, stepping back.
But amid that, Ukraine facing what it said was its fifth assault by Russia involving ballistic missiles this month alone. So, the frequency of that
does seem to be going up. Now it was able to avert, shoot down, or suppress five out of the eight ballistic missiles used, according to the air force.
It has not been able to do so in some of the recent attacks. So, what we're in now is a race against time. Ukraine and its allies racing to beef up
Ukraine's defenses, as it's clear that Russia is in escalation mode. On Monday, they announced this coalition anti-ballistic missile coalition.
The core of that is to come together, Ukraine and its allies, to build what would be a cheaper alternative, a cheaper European alternative to the
Patriot system. President Zelenskyy has also called for a winter air defense package involving some 300 Patriot interceptors. That is a huge
number, especially given that the effective collapse of the ceasefire with Iran will put even more strain on U.S. stockpiles.
[11:20:00]
All the while, we see from Russia signals that it's not backing down from its maximalist goals and that it is in the mood to escalate here.
ASHER: Right. Many thanks to our Clare Sebastian for that report. Right. A White House official says that President Trump will support the passage of
a bipartisan Russian sanction passage, spearheaded by the late Senator Lindsey Graham. That package would clear the way for the president to
impose tariffs on imports from nations that buy Russian oil and natural gas.
The aim is to further weaken Moscow amid the war with Ukraine. In the past, President Trump has not supported such legislation, preferring to impose
his own sanctions so he can have more control over them. At this hour, two Supreme Court justices are making their pitch for increased security
funding for the High Court.
Justices Elena Kagan and Amy Coney Barrett are the first members of the court to testify before Congress since 2019. The two are expected to speak
frankly on the threats the judiciary faces, while being at the center of very, very divisive cases right now. While security is the reason for the
hearing, congressional aides tell CNN the questioning of Kagan and Coney Barrett may go beyond that.
All right, still to come, questions are mounting after a deadly I.C.E. operation in Maine claimed the life of a 26-year-old Colombian man. What
we're learning in the investigation just ahead.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
ASHER: Right, moments ago, President Trump welcomed Iraq's new prime minister to the White House at stake. The possibility of major investments
in Iraq's oil, gas, and power sectors, we're expected to hear from both leaders any moment now. We'll bring you that bilateral meeting as soon as
it happens.
Right, a source tells CNN that immigration agents will largely suspend traffic stops until further notice. This comes one day after a man was shot
dead by I.C.E. agents in Biddeford, Maine. And we're learning new details about what exactly happened here. A neighbor has identified the man as 26-
year-old Joan Sebastian Guerrero from Colombia.
They say that he was a hard-working father who really wanted to make a better life for his family here. His death sparking protests in the small
town. Monday's shooting marks the second man killed by an I.C.E. agent in less than a week. On the incident, the Department of Homeland Security says
the vehicle attempted to flee the scene, and the officer opened fire, fearing for public safety.
At this point, there is no evidence or body cam footage of that.
[11:25:00]
Though, as questions mount in the fatal shooting, one of Maine senators. Now says Guerrero was not the target of I.C.E. agents. CNN's Jason Carroll
has more.
JASON CARROLL, CNN U.S. NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Senator King came out and said that the person who was shot and killed was the target of the I.C.E.
investigation. That was the information that he was receiving from the Department of Homeland Security Secretary, who had told him that. And then
several hours later, Becky, we got an update from Senator King, who then said, nope, that's actually not the case. He said that the person who was
killed was, in fact, according to the Department of Homeland Security Secretary, he was not the intended target of the investigation.
I mean, already you have a community that has a great deal of distrust of I.C.E. and the Department of Homeland Security, and this just in some ways
just added to that. I want you to listen, for example, to what a local congresswoman said, this is her district. I want you to listen to what her
take was on what happened out here.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REP. CHELLIE PINGREE (D-ME): By all accounts, he was the wrong man, not the person that I.C.E. had been targeting. He was headed off to work, lived
very close nearby, and there was a nice operation going on, looking for someone else. But he was in the car. And by all accounts, certainly after
the shooting, his wife and three-year-old daughter, in her bluey pajamas with a pink backpack, were also on the scene. So, they witnessed seeing
their father's dead body.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CARROLL: So again, Guerrero, 26 years old, killed on his way to work, according to an immigrants' rights group. He had a social security number.
His mother releasing a parcel statement on social media. She's in Colombia. She said, quote, you went to search for the American dream, and that same
country ended your life.
ASHER: Many thanks to our Jason Carroll for that report. The investigation into that other deadly ice shooting in Houston, Texas, is also ramping up.
Nearly 20 subpoenas have already been issued from the country's District Attorney's office for more evidence and testimony.
The DA says the federal government is not cooperating, and is launching its own investigation.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEAN TEARE, HARRIS COUNTY, TEXAS DISTRICT ATTORNEY: We are running this investigation so that we can be transparent, so that the community as a
whole, all of Harris County, all of Texas, and quite frankly, all of the United States can know what happened out there on that Tuesday morning, and
if someone needs to be held accountable, they will be.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ASHER: Mexican national Lorenzo Salgado Araujo was shot and killed on July 7th. A short time ago, his son was seen visiting the very spot his father
was killed, he placed a white rose and his father's soccer cleats at the memorial. All right, still to come, new explosions and a renewed blockade.
We'll return to our coverage of the latest escalation between the United States and Iran.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[11:30:00]
ASHER: All right, welcome back to "One World". I'm Zain Asher in New York. Here are some of the headlines we are following for you today. The U.S.
President has just welcomed the Iraqi Prime Minister to the White House. The two are set to hold a bilateral meeting this hour.
This is Ali al-Zaidi's first official international trip since taking office. He's seeking new U.S. investment in its country's oil and gas
sectors. U.S. military says it has launched more strikes across a broad swath of Iran. In less than five hours, U.S. Central Command plans to
restart its naval blockade of Iranian ports.
Meantime, Iran continues to target U.S. regional allies with missile and drone attacks. French President Emmanuel Macron welcomed world leaders to
France today for Bastille Day, including Ukraine's Volodymyr Zelenskyy. They watched his allied troops and a number of Ukrainian soldiers marched
along the Champs-Elysees.
The aim was to send a message of European unity as Russia's war on Ukraine rages on. French firefighters are battling several wildfires across the
country, scooping water from the River Seine to help battle the flames as Europe faces its third heat wave this season. French reports say that two
people have been arrested for their alleged involvement in starting one of the fires ravaging a historic forest just south of Paris.
All right. We are tracking a dramatic escalation after a third straight night of U.S. air strikes on Iran. U.S. Central Command says that U.S.
forces employed quote, precision munitions against Iranian coastal defense systems, missile, and drone sites. Meantime, the UAE says Iran targeted two
of its tankers in the Strait of Hormuz, and Iran continued strikes on U.S. regional allies.
And just hours from now, the U.S. military is set to resume its blockade of Iranian ports. Nada Bashir is keeping a close eye on all of these
developments. She joins us live now from London. Just talk to us about what the escalation means for Gulf nations, because Iran is sending a very clear
message to them that if you support the United States, if you host American military bases, there will be consequences.
NADA BASHIR, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Absolutely, and that is what we have seen in direct response to U.S. strikes on Iran from the outset of this re-
engagement by the U.S. military in targeting Iran. We have seen those retaliatory strikes carried out by the IRGC in Iran, targeting Gulf nations
in the region that either host the U.S. military, that are allied to the United States, or where there is significant U.S. interest.
And we have seen this, of course, over the last few days, and we have continued to see this overnight into Tuesday, and continuing today, as you
mentioned, two UAE tankers are said to have been struck, according to the UAE Defense Ministry, in the Strait of Hormuz, in the southern part of the
Strait of Hormuz.
The IRGC has accused the tankers of traveling through an unauthorized route, and that is exactly the reasoning that they have given for previous
attacks firing on tankers that have been traveling through a corridor along the coast of Oman, as opposed to traveling along the coast of Iran.
The IRGC has also said that these tankers, according to their statement, turned off their navigation systems and ignored warnings from the Iranian
authorities. But of course, there are civilians on board these tankers. At least one crew member is confirmed to have been killed.
But we are also seeing that escalation in other parts of the Gulf as well, including in Kuwait. Iran has claimed that it has targeted U.S. military
infrastructure in Kuwait. We've also heard from both Bahrain and Jordan, both saying that they have intercepted missiles and drones coming from
Iran, attempting to target their own territory as well.
And the Iranian regime has been very clear in its rhetoric towards the United States, but also towards Gulf allies of the U.S. saying this
escalation will only continue and will only grow more powerful if the U.S. continues to target Iran.
[11:35:00]
We have heard from the Trump Administration, of course, with regards to this latest round of strikes. President Trump has been very clear in trying
to characterize this as a limited offensive by the U.S. saying that they are striking defensively, focused on trying to downgrade Iran's military
capabilities and to ensure that there is that safe passage through the Strait of Hormuz.
But again, there are real questions as to what the U.S. and the Trump Administration's end goal is here. Whether this really will become an open-
ended conflict with no end in sight, and whether this latest escalation could really upend the mediation efforts that we have seen, including
efforts by Gulf states.
Of course, over the weekend, we did see Iran's Foreign Minister meeting with his Omani counterpart. Officials familiar with those talks say that
the discussions were focused on trying to establish some sort of joint control mechanism over the Strait of Hormuz. But Iran has repeatedly
accused the U.S. and blamed the U.S. as well as other foreign nations for interfering in those efforts to try to mediate some sort of agreement.
And at this stage, it does appear as those mediation efforts are on hold for the foreseeable.
ASHER: Right, Nada Bashir, live for us there. Thank you so much. All right, let's go back to CNN's Stephen Collinson and Max Boot, Senior Fellow at the
Council of Foreign Relations. Both of them join us live now. So, Stephen, let me start with you because we are waiting this bilateral meeting between
the Iraqi, the New Iraqi Prime Minister, and of course President Trump.
And you know, I think that it is important to sort of explain to our international audience the complicated history between Iraq and Iran.
Obviously, that did change in 2003 after the toppling of Saddam Hussein, when you saw really a much more vested interest in shared cooperation
because of religious overlap, security issues, economic ties, and that sort of thing.
So, just give our audience your take on that as we wait for this bilateral meeting between the Iraqi Prime Minister and President Trump.
COLLINSON: Yeah, and I think you could argue that the upshot, one of the upshots of the U.S. invasion of Iraq was to actually empower Iran's
position in the region. That was one of the problems that Iraq has been having because it has been so long under the influence of Iran, going back
for decades, really, until or since even the Iranian Islamic Revolution.
Iraq has been in this very difficult position of balancing between the United States and its geographic neighbor, Iran. Max, as a Ronald Reagan
biographer, can probably tell us about when Donald Rumsfeld went to Iraq. I think to meet Saddam Hussein during the Reagan Administration, and that was
the question that was on the table.
In many ways, it parallels the one that Trump and the Iraqi Prime Minister are talking about today. How does Iraq position itself? Clearly, the U.S.
is offering economic and investment incentives to Iraq to draw itself away from Iran, but that is easier said than done because of the very tenuous
political position inside Iraq with all these Shiite militias, which lean towards Iran.
And what Iraq is desperately trying to prevent is a descent back into the civil war situation in which those Shiite militias were very powerful, that
unfolded after the U.S. invasion and the vacuum of power that was created by the overthrow of Saddam Hussein, so these are very difficult questions.
It's hard to see, really, whether Iraq will see, even if it is offered these assurances, the United States as a reliable power, given what we've
seen the reversals from the president just in the last few hours.
ASHER: Such an interesting point, Stephen. Max, let me bring you in on one of the things that Stephen mentioned there. This sort of juggling act, this
delicate balance that the new Iraqi Prime Minister has to make between not necessarily alienating Iran per se, but at the same time really showing
close economic, security, political cooperation with the United States. How does he do that?
BOOT: Well, with a great deal of difficulty. I mean, I think basically what's happened since 2003 is that any deal to seat a new Iraqi Prime
Minister essentially requires the support of both the United States and Iran, and so you know Prime Minister Zaidi has that support to some level,
but he basically has to juggle between the two major outside powers.
[11:40:00]
And of course, the U.S. influence has declined dramatically because we have basically no troops left in in Iraq, whereas the Iranian influence remains
unchanged because they're right there over the border. They still have tens of thousands of fighters in the popular mobilization forces who are
basically controlled by the Iran's IRGC, and so Iran remains a major player.
As you mentioned, Zain, you know just recently we had the massive funeral for the Supreme Leader Ayatollah Khamenei, which was held not only in Iran
but also in Iraq, where you had massive turnout of Shiite mourners in Iraq for the supreme leader, who was the supreme leader not only of Iran but
also of Shia.
So, there are very close links between Iraq and Iran that are not going to change. But again, the Iraqi Prime Minister does not want to be 100 percent
beholden to or dependent upon Tehran. So, he also wants to keep channels open with the U.S. with Saudi Arabia, and with other outside powers, and
that's what you see going on right now.
ASHER: And Max, as we await this bilateral meeting, talk to us about who Al-Zaidi actually is. I mean, this is somebody who is somewhat of a
political newcomer. He's a compromise candidate, a bit of a technocrat. You know, Trump opposed Al-Maliki, because Al-Maliki had too close ties with
Iran.
So, this was considered to be someone that the U.S. supported because he would have apparently closer ties to Washington. Just give us a sense of
who this political newcomer actually is. He has a very strong business background as well.
BOOT: Right. Well, I mean, again, he's somebody who is perceived as a technocrat who is acceptable to both the U.S. and to Iran, which is why he
got the job. And as you mentioned, the U.S. is very strongly opposed to Nouri al-Maliki, another Former Shiite Prime Minister, whom we once
supported, and then our relations with him soured.
And so, you know we keep seeing and hoping that there will be some leader of Iraq who will be entirely independent of Iran. I don't think that's
going to happen. Although I think you know, Zaidi is somebody who is trying to balance between the two, and his big initiative recently has been the
battle against corruption.
You know, he just a few weeks ago he sent Iraqi special forces into the green zone, where they arrested a lot of high-profile political figures.
This has been one of the major issues confronting Iraq since Saddam Hussein's downfall, which is the pervasive corruption and the theft from
the state, which all political parties have taken part in, and that's been a major obstacle for Iraq.
So, if they're getting serious about fighting corruption, I think that's a very good thing. But it's very hard to know whether he will actually
succeed, because of course, fighting corruption also means taking on very entrenched interests, who have powerful militias, who have powerful
politicians, and so it's far from clear what the result of his anti- corruption push is going to be.
ASHER: Stephen. Thank you for that, Max. Stephen, just in terms of the other topic we're following very closely, the issue of Iran, and going back
to your piece, you talked about this idea that Iran -- Trump is learning that Iran drives obviously a hard bargain, perhaps in some ways a harder
bargain than Donald Trump does.
Their main leverage since February 28th has been the Strait of Hormuz. How much longer will that continue to be a key point of leverage for Iran,
especially when you consider that, I mean, the whole world has learned a very important lesson from this war about the over reliance on one
particular waterway?
I'm sure nations around the world are coming up with contingency plans, alternate routes, pipelines, and that sort of thing. So, how much longer, I
mean, I'm sure it'll be years, I'm guessing can Iran really use the Strait of Hormuz as this one piece of leverage that gives them that much power in
this particular war?
COLLINSON: It's a good question, and of course, it would probably be a good thing strategically if governments around the world started to try and wean
themselves off reliance on that particular route. But as you say -- building pipelines, for example, would take a long time.
It takes years and years of planning and investment. So, while it is a potentially a short-term form of leverage, it is one that is very effective
right now. And of course, Donald Trump is not thinking about the time frame in a few years or many years into the future, he's thinking about the few
years that he has left in office.
Often, it seems as though the president only thinks to the end of one day, actually, rather than how events will span out across a number of years.
[11:45:00]
But I think it's interesting that there's no other source of power right now that is weighing on Iran to get that straight open immediately. China,
although it figures to be hurt by the closure of the Strait of Hormuz, it has apparently been able to ride out some of the initial shocks.
Whether that continues to be the case if this remains closed for a long time is another question. And the Europeans have very little power. They're
not really involved. Go back to the Obama era negotiations on Iran. The Europeans were an important source of leverage on Iran, but since they've
been alienated by the United States, much of that because of America's own behavior, they're not a force of pressure on Iran, and they lack the
military capability to do much about it.
Anyway, they talk about helping to reopen the Strait of Hormuz; they mean after any hostilities have taken place. So, you could see, I think, some
term, some kind of long-term monitoring or shepherding operation by European navies and others through the strait.
That's not going to happen when there is any contentious activity going on in the strait. So, this is very much for now between Trump and Iran. I
think the betting will be after what we've seen today and what we've seen in the last few months that in a few days, Trump may try and change the
narrative again and argue that his attacks on Iran in the last few days have been so successful that Iran will want to come back to the table.
And then we will go through another probably futile and very frustrating negotiating process. And we're just going to keep going round and round
like some French existentialist play getting to the same destination where we always are.
BOOT: I can -- just jump in quickly. I mean --
ASHER: Go ahead, Max.
BOOT: I think the problem is that Trump is basically trying to avoid the real choice that he faces, and it's actually very simple. Is he A, going to
allow Iran to charge tolls on shipping through the Strait of Hormuz, or B, is he going to escalate militarily and try to open the Strait of Hormuz by
military force?
That's it. That is the choice he's trying to avoid. That's why he's ping ponging all over the place. That's why he's saying you know 20 percent
tariffs one day, the next day nothing. That's why he's saying the strait is open. You know, we have a deal, then we don't have a deal, whatever.
But at the end of the day, the Iranians have made pretty clear they are not going to give up control of the strait unless they get paid for it. Unless
they have, they're not going to allow traffic through the strait unless that traffic is willing to pay a toll, which they can disguise as a user
fee or something else.
And obviously, that's something that the U.S. has always resisted, at least up until now, because we've always believed in the principle of freedom of
navigation. But you know, enforcing the principle of freedom of navigation means a massive military operation.
And it's by no means clear it's going to be successful, because all it takes is a few Iranian drones strikes or missile strikes to shut down most
of the traffic and to dissuade shipping companies from trying to get their ships through the Strait of Hormuz. And so, Trump really does not want to
escalate, but he also really does not want Iran collecting tolls.
But sooner or later, he's basically going to have to make that very difficult choice between the two, and instead he's trying to have it both
ways with some escalation, which he hopes will lead to another grand bargain with Iran, but the Iranians have shown pretty clearly that they are
not intimidated by Trump.
They're willing to stand up to his bluster, and they're willing to, because they feel confident that they will survive his air strikes.
ASHER: Yeah, and they don't -- they've also learned not to necessarily take what he says at face value. As case in point, a half an hour ago, I read
the statement on Truth Social saying that you know, Trump's sort of walking away from his plan to charge 20 percent tolls.
But Stephen Collinson, I also agree with you that this does, this is starting to feel like waiting for Godot, waiting for the end of this war.
Stephen Collinson and Max Boot, thank you both so much. And again, we do expect to hear from both leaders in terms of the Iraqi Prime Minister and
the U.S. President, any moment now, and we'll bring that to you when that happens.
All right, still to come, we'll get an update on the wildfires raging south of Paris. More on that after the break.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[11:50:00]
ASHER: Right, French police have arrested two people for their alleged involvement in starting the Fontainebleau forest fire just south of Paris.
It's just one of several blazes across the country amid a deadly European heat wave, the third bout of extreme heat this season. CNN's Melissa Bell
has more from Paris.
MELISSA BELL, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, we've come as really as close as we can to, but to give you a little perspective, those
are not clouds that you see behind me. That is the fire coming from that fire, still not fixed, say authorities.
So, they still haven't managed to contain it, and what we understand as authorities have spoken about what has been happening here since last
night, we're about 60 kilometers to the southeast of Paris. This is most unusual to see wildfires this far north. What we understand is that this
fire started last night.
There were two different fires that started on either side of this main motorway, the A6 that leads south out of Paris, right by Orly Airport.
Those two fires have now, say, authorities become one, and it is raging out of control. As you say, 800 hectares already burned.
It's about a fifth of the forest of Fontainebleau, this very ancient forest here to the southeast of Paris. And just behind me, near where that fire is
currently raging, of course, the famous Chateau of Fontainebleau, the royal residence here in France, and one of the most famous royal residences there
are.
So, still not contained, and what we're hearing is that this nearly 1000- hectare fire now is likely to continue being pushed on by the kind of winds that we've been seeing, but it is also very dry conditions. We're now in
the middle of our third heat wave in just a month and a half.
Already across France, it is 32,000 hectares that have burnt. That is more than the entire season of wildfires of heat of 2025. And it gives you an
idea of just how dry the Earth is and just how hot the air is.
ASHER: All right, many thanks to CNN's Melissa Bell, excuse me for that report. We'll be right back after the short break.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[11:55:00]
ASHER: The World Cup semi-finals kick off in about three hours from now in Dallas, Texas. Top-ranked France will put its star-studded offense to the
test against the number three Spanish team that's allowed just one goal in the tournament so far. The winner will earn a spot in Sunday's final.
Norway's World Cup stars may be out of the tournament, but their star striker Erling Haaland is still making headlines. The Manchester City
superstar seen here carrying a taxidermy raccoon as he gets off the plane following the national team's return to Oslo. He bought the raccoon, which
appears to be holding an empty bottle of alcohol during a visit to a store in Texas.
Although he says, quote, it followed him home. All right, stay with CNN. There is much more "One World" after my colleague Bianna Golodryga joins me
after the break.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
END
