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Piers Morgan Live

Interview with Ann Coulter; Interview with Mitt Romney

Aired June 07, 2011 - 21:00   ET



PIERS MORGAN, HOST (voice-over): Tonight, two words that will strike fear into the hearts of every liberal: Ann Coulter.

Why does the darling of the right believe that all liberals are demonic? What does she think of Weiner-gate.


ANN COULTER, CONSERVATIVE COLUMNIST: He couldn't say with certitude if (EXPLETIVE DELETED) was his?


MORGAN: And why does she say this?


COULTER: If we don't run Chris Christie, Romney will be the nominee and we'll lose.


MORGAN: Plus, Mitt Romney himself is back with me tonight. I got tough questions for the man who wants to be your next president.


MORGAN: Do you think personally think homosexuality is a sin?

MITT ROMNEY (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Nice try. But I'm not going to get into it.

MORGAN: That's a valid question, isn't it?

ROMNEY: It's a valid question and my answer is: nice try.


MORGAN: And I'm going to talk to the person who knows Mitt Romney better than anybody, his wife Ann.


ANN ROMNEY, MITT ROMNEY'S WIFE: I mean, the passion comes out for sure, in many ways.

MORGAN: I bet. Now, we're talking.






MORGAN: Good evening.

Ann Coulter is a shy, retiring mild-mannered young lady, never afraid to keep her mind to herself. Well, the complete opposite.

Exhibit A, her latest book, with the provocative title, "Demonic: How the Liberal Mob is Endangering America."

And Ann Coulter joins me.

I'm so excited by this.

COULTER: Me, too.

MORGAN: To finally have you in my lair, the agent provocateur of the right.

COULTER: I've been dying to do the show, but I've been busy writing the book.

MORGAN: I mean you seem relatively harmless in the flesh.


MORGAN: Are you harmless?

COULTER: I think I'm a pussycat.

MORGAN: Really?


MORGAN: So, you think all the devils lie with the liberals, do you?


COULTER: Well, not exactly. It's not called "Demons," it's called "Demonic." It's about liberal mob psychology, how they gin up their base, and how they argue -- all these things that used to confuse me about liberals. And, by the way, I consider myself something of an expert on liberals. And there were some things --


MORGAN: I've read your work.

COULTER: There were some things even I could not understand. For example, so many of them seem to do well on their SATs, because they've gone to places like Harvard and Yale. And yet they seem so stupid.

And that's explained as mob psychology. And in -- in a mob, a man of -- even of great education and intelligence, will suddenly become part of the mob --

MORGAN: But here's my confusion with you, because I've watched you from afar. I've read your work. And watched you on Fox News --

COULTER: It's fun, isn't it?

MORGAN: Great fun. Great fun. Endlessly entertaining, amusing --

COULTER: Thank you.

MORGAN: -- provocative, my kind of girl, right?

COULTER: Thank you.

MORGAN: Forget the politics for a moment.

But when I see you have the brass neck to say this: "Just as fire seeks oxygen, Democrats seek power" -- as if somehow Republicans in this country don't also like fire seeking oxygen, want power.


MORGAN: I mean, that's ridiculous.

COULTER: Well --

MORGAN: This is something you're publishing. This is actually --


MORGAN: -- the publishing literature for your book.

COULTER: Well, of course, because I want to gin people like you up.

MORGAN: But look me in the eye --

COULTER: Of course.

MORGAN: -- and so --


MORGAN: -- and tell me that in some way, Republicans don't --

COULTER: The point here is --

MORGAN: -- want power?

COULTER: No, of course, politicians seek power. But the point here is and the examples I give are, how Democrats will -- for example, they appealed to the segregationists, they appealed to the KKK. They were the party of Maddox and Orville Faubus, standing in the schoolhouse door.

Then as soon as blacks start voting in large enough numbers to influence their electoral prospects, suddenly, they switch and they're just going to use blacks as a mob, and gays as a mob, and women as a mob, and illegal aliens as a mob.

And as long as they get power, they don't care what happens.

I mean, look at the debate over Social Security right now and Medicare and Medicaid. When these programs were started, they were started as Ponzi schemes. Their authors knew this can't last, but we'll be dead and gone by the time the bill comes due.

And you can't get Democrats to focus on what we're going to do with these programs going bankrupt. They just want to keep demagoguing, demagoguing, demagoguing.

MORGAN: Let me ask you, why -- if the Republicans are so brilliant -- and I don't dispute that --

COULTER: Oh, I do not think Republicans are brilliant.

MORGAN: And I don't -- I don't dispute your words here. But you say it so perfect.

Why is it that America -- this great superpower -- was dragged into the biggest recession its ever had under eight years of Republican --

COULTER: I am so glad you asked that. That's one of the first examples I used in chapter one.

MORGAN: I know. But why is it?

COULTER: What happened was it was like a three or four step process. It's relatively simple. You had the Democrats, through Fannie Mae, Freddie Mac, pushing politically -- or, rather, financially, suicidal loans on the banks. You have to give mortgages to poor people.

MORGAN: Yes, but --

COULTER: And literally --

MORGAN: -- when you have an eight year Republican administration -- COULTER: Oh, yes --

MORGAN: -- even you, with your --

COULTER: Oh, no, no, no, no.

MORGAN: -- with your brass neck, cannot blame Democrats.

COULTER: No, Republicans were screaming from the rooftops about Fannie Mae. And, I mean, I've written about it. Other people have written about it and --

MORGAN: But you had a Republican president. Why didn't you do anything about it?

COULTER: He tried.

MORGAN: Over eight years?

COULTER: Yes. He -- he did. But the point is it was Democrats and it was Barney Frank and it was Chris Dodd --

MORGAN: I don't believe --

COULTER: -- wait a second.

MORGAN: I love you dearly.

COULTER: I haven't finished explaining --

MORGAN: But how can you --

COULTER: Let me just get through the --

MORGAN: -- blame the Democrats for an eight year regime which does nothing about?

COULTER: The Democrats pushed this politically or rather financially suicidal loans on the banks, literally allowing unemployment benefits to be used as collateral. Those mortgages then get bundled into mortgage-backed securities by the big banks. They're spread throughout the economy. And when the housing market tanks, that collapses the entire economy. And it is a fact --

MORGAN: Why didn't your team do something about it?

COULTER: They did. Greg Mankiw, the White House economic adviser, I mean there's a long record. I think this is kind of a boring subject, because people --

MORGAN: But I like it.

COULTER: -- their eyes glaze over when you think about it when you talk about it --

MORGAN: No, they don't -- COULTER: But I will tell you the Republicans were screaming from the rooftop and I --

MORGAN: It's hardly a boring subject. It's the single biggest crisis that's facing America.

COULTER: And you're -- we are at least talking about what it's really about, as opposed to what I make fun of Democrats in the book for. You ask a Democrat what caused the recession and they say Bush drove a car into a bush or into the -- into the lake.

And now, we want the keys back. Now, Republicans want the keys back. That is a total Rousseuian approach to politics -- use images, not words. Don't use logic. Feel better --


MORGAN: What do you think of the bankers now who were bailed out awarding themselves multi -- multi-million dollar bonuses?

COULTER: I can't stand them. And as I also point out in this book, it drives me crazy that Republicans get saddled with Wall Street when Obama just took the biggest haul from Wall Street --

MORGAN: But hang on --

COULTER: -- of any --

MORGAN: Why is your instinctive gut reaction to everything I say, even when I'm agreeing with you, why is it always to mention the Democrats?

COULTER: Well, technically what --


MORGAN: Are you like programmed like a robot?

COULTER: No, what I'm saying --

MORGAN: I can't answer this question --

COULTER: What I'm mentioning --

MORGAN: -- so I have to blame a Democrat. Because all you've done so far, even though we've agreed on several things --

COULTER: Well, let me --

MORGAN: -- you've simply gone, well, wait, it's Obama's fault. It was the Democrats.

COULTER: Well, A, that was your question, why are -- if the Republicans are so brilliant, I'm answering your question. And, B --

MORGAN: My second question was about the -- COULTER: -- I've just spent --

MORGAN: -- bonuses.

COULTER: -- two years --

MORGAN: -- it had nothing to do with them.

COULTER: -- researching and writing this book and what I am robotically going to keep returning to is what I say about it in the book.

MORGAN: Well, go on then.

COULTER: Well, that -- I contrast the French and the American Revolutions, which I think are the two absolutely opposite revolutions.

The American Revolution by English and by Christians -- it was -- it was a -- they were debaters, they were thinking, they're writing these erudite Christian sermons on behalf of what was actually a pretty tough argument to make. I mean, it was a -- it wasn't a bad thing, being a British colony. It was an intellectual point, we want independence.

The French Revolution, by contrast, they were just -- it was the revolt of the mob. That's why it's relevant to this book. It was just lunatics running around chopping off heads, sticking heads on -- on pikes and on guillotines. But they're often compared in this country.

Well, I say the liberal tradition comes from the French Revolution --

MORGAN: You -- you --

COULTER: -- whose --

MORGAN: -- base this on this guy Gustav Le Bon --


MORGAN: -- who was this great psychologist who wrote these books, "A Study of the Popular Mind."

COULTER: About mob psychology.


COULTER: He was the father of groupthink.

MORGAN: But the two great fans of his were Adolph Hitler and Benito Mussolini --

COULTER: Well, if he wasn't --

MORGAN: -- two of the great right-wing fascist leaders of all time.

COULTER: He was not writing his book as a how-to book. It was a warning, but they used his warnings --

MORGAN: But two of the greatest mobsters of the last hundred years --

COULTER: Exactly.

MORGAN: -- were right-wing nut cases.

COULTER: And Freud said he was the expert on --

MORGAN: Why haven't you written a book called --

COULTER: -- groupthink, too.

MORGAN: -- "Demonic: How My Study of Gustav Le Bon Explains Why Actually the Greatest, Most Murderous Uprisings in History," the most murderous rallying of mobs ever was by right-wing loonies, not left- wing.

COULTER: This would be like citing someone who discovers some horrible virus and the scientist writes about the virus in order to come up with a cure for the virus and then the terrorists steal the book and they design the virus in order to kill lots of people. That is how Hitler and Mussolini used Gustav Le Bon's warning against mobs, calling them dangerous --

MORGAN: Do you --

COULTER: -- saying how they're -- they are irrational, they're simple-minded, they create messiahs, they have contradictory thinking.

With Le Bon, it was a warning. Ironically, Hitler and Mussolini studied Le Bon in order to learn how to gin up mobs --

MORGAN: Where is the --

COULTER: -- and as a --

MORGAN: -- where is the similar mob to Mussolini's and Hitler's in the modern democratic era?

COULTER: Well, I would say that there are a lot of similarities to the French Revolution --

MORGAN: The Tea Party?

COULTER: No. No, no, no.

MORGAN: The nearest thing to it in America?

COULTER: No, they're much closer to the original Tea Party which -- and actually not as -- not as much of a rabble as the original Tea Party, which, as I point out, the Founding Fathers weren't wild about the original Tea Party, curiously enough, because they were so against mobs.

MORGAN: Are you wild about them?

COULTER: About who?

MORGAN: The Tea Party?

COULTER: Oh, the current Tea Party?


COULTER: Oh, yes, I love them.

MORGAN: See, I don't really get that.

COULTER: I speak to them.

MORGAN: I don't get that, because you're a smart cookie.

COULTER: So are the Tea Partiers.

MORGAN: Whatever people think about you, you're intelligent. You're -- you're -- you may be provocative --


COULTER: I believe you are insulting the Tea Partiers.

MORGAN: Well, a lot -- a lot of them aren't the brightest of sparrows, are they?

COULTER: They're smarter than any liberal.

MORGAN: Do you think so?


MORGAN: Do you really think that?

COULTER: Yes, I do and I --

MORGAN: In your heart?

COULTER: -- meet them and I speak to them and they get my jokes -- which already makes them smarter than the average liberal.

MORGAN: So that's why you like them, because of their smiles?

COULTER: Well, it makes them smarter than the average liberal. I'm always having to explain, map out how the joke works here.

MORGAN: Well, let me -- when you talk, as your publisher does again here: "Liberals use mobs to seize power and impose their theories on the populace for the good of humanity." I think Sarah Palin when I read that, who -- whether you like her or not is irrelevant, is a brilliant rouser of the populace, like nothing else in politics right now, after Obama himself in his last election.

She is doing an incredible job marshaling her base. But she also comes out with some pretty inflammatory stuff. And that surely arouses a mob mentality.

You wouldn't dispute that.

COULTER: I don't think she's inflammatory. I think she's a great speaker.

What do you think she's said that's inflammatory?

MORGAN: Putting crosshairs on people's heads --

COULTER: Oh, come on. I talk about that in the book, too.

MORGAN: Is that inflammatory?

COULTER: No. That was invented by Democratic strategist Bob Beckel, as he admitted on TV.

MORGAN: So, once again, you go back to the Democrats.

COULTER: I go back to --

MORGAN: I'm asking you about Sarah Palin.


Where's the camera?


MORGAN: I may be wrong.

COULTER: I'm going back to the book because I talk about the crosshair issue --


COULTER: -- beautiful example something --

MORGAN: Let me finish the question.

COULTER: -- in the book.

MORGAN: Your default process throughout this so far is fascinating. Every single time I ask you a question, rather than answer about Sarah Palin and crosshairs, you instinctively go, what about the Democrats?

COULTER: The P.R. is darling. If I were selling you a book, if I were talking about a book that I had just written about dogs and you ask me, what comforts all the people, I would say, why, Piers, dogs do.


COULTER: In fact, I talk about it in my book. My book is called "How the Liberal Mob is Endangering America" and I --

MORGAN: But why don't you --

COULTER: -- talk about the crosshairs issue. And if I could answer the question on the crosshairs issue --

MORGAN: Yes, you may.

COULTER: It is a perfect example of totally contradictory thinking by the left in America, an example of the mob, where they go around hysterical at Sarah Palin putting these crosshairs on congressional districts.

It was done by the Democratic National Committee. It was invented by a liberal. It's a classic thing in politics. And it wasn't on their face --

MORGAN: Was it --

COULTER: -- it was their districts.

MORGAN: -- a sensible --

COULTER: -- these are the ones --

MORGAN: -- to do for (INAUDIBLE) --

COULTER: Yes. It's fine for both the Democrats and the Republicans to do it.

MORGAN: Would you encourage them to carry on doing it?

COULTER: Yes. That isn't what caused Jared Taylor --

MORGAN: How do you know?

COULTER: -- to shoot up a shopping mall.

MORGAN: How do you know?

COULTER: Because we know that he's out of his mind.

MORGAN: A mentally unstable guy. And it turns out, he didn't have any connection, it would appear --

COULTER: And it turns out, he was a liberal.

MORGAN: But how would you have felt if, actually, he was mentally unstable, he had seen the Web site, he misunderstood the instruction from the crosshair and he went and did the same thing?

Then what would you think?

COULTER: Well, what if I --

MORGAN: Would you be dead?

COULTER: -- walk out of this studio tonight and someone who's seen you accusing me of being mean to liberals is so ginned up, he shoots me?

Would you not ask any of the questions you're asking?

I mean, no. You can't in the law. And this is called the eggshell skull theory. No, you cannot be held accountable for some -- because someone else has an eggshell skull. You would take reasonable care. And that isn't what happened.

So, you're hypothesizing the same way I'm hypothesizing. And it's a lot more likely that a liberal is going to run at me than that anybody is going to run at a Democrat --

MORGAN: Look --

COULTER: -- because of crosshairs on a map.

MORGAN: Let's come back to some more hypothesizing in a moment after the break.

We're going to talk about the Republican leadership battle at the moment, Mitt Romney and Sarah Palin and others. And I want you to focus on them without once mentioning the Democrats.

COULTER: I'm going to mention the book.

MORGAN: If you can do that.

COULTER: I can't do it without mentioning the book. That is impossible.



COULTER: I don't like to attack Republicans. Many of them have excellent, excellent characteristics and they're good in the positions they're in now. And I support them in their positions as representatives, as governor or -- or Fox News host.

But I think -- well, I'll put it in a nutshell, if we don't run Chris Christie, Romney will be the nominee and we'll lose.



MORGAN: Do you still think that?


MORGAN: Do you really?

COULTER: Well, no. Yes, I still think we should run Chris Christie. I now think the economy is -- and, in fact, I protracted this, to some extent, like a month ago on some radio show or something. I now think the economy is such a disaster and Obama has such a glass jaw that we might even win with Romney.

And Romney --

MORGAN: Mitt Romney is on my show --

COULTER: -- isn't a disaster --

MORGAN: -- last night. He's on after you again tonight. I mean --

COULTER: I'd like him.

MORGAN: -- the economy is one of his strong points --


MORGAN: -- to argue.

COULTER: Yes. No, it is. I mean, the problem with Romney that a lot of people have, people like me, conservatives, is Romneycare. But I still think he'll probably be the nominee unless Christie jumps in. Christie is -- Christie is pretty stunning.

MORGAN: What about Sarah Palin? Is she going to run? You probably know, don't you?

COULTER: I haven't the first idea.

MORGAN: Do you think she should?

COULTER: I wouldn't if I were in her shoes, not for president -- maybe senator or something.

MORGAN: Why not for president? She could probably --

COULTER: Because I think --

MORGAN: -- get a big vote out.

COULTER: -- it would be the worst job imaginable, both running and holding the office.

MORGAN: Really?


MORGAN: Don't you love her? I mean, she loves being a big star.

COULTER: She is a big star.

MORGAN: Yes, but it would be the biggest thing on the planet to be president.

COULTER: She's virtually the biggest thing on the planet.

MORGAN: Is she dangerous?

COULTER: No, she's fabulous.

MORGAN: You don't see any fault line in Sarah Palin?

COULTER: No, I think she's terrific. I think she's well-spoken. I think she has a very high I.Q. I think she has a way of putting words together and appealing to people. I think she's a huge star now.

Why would you wreck your life by running for president, you know?

When I give -- I mostly speak on college campuses because I like hearing liberals try to formulate a question. And that also helped me give me the idea for -- for the book, being around liberals. And they are kind of mob-like.

But sometimes I speak to friendly audiences and I'm often asked, you know, why don't you run for president?

And I used to be really insulted by that question. And I'd get a round and I'd tell my friends, I'm really annoyed. You know, I'm an author. It would -- it would be -- it's an awful job. It's like saying, you know, you're -- you're CEO of a company, why don't you become a, you know, dog walker or -- or a newspaper delivery boy or something?

And my friends persuaded me that it was meant as a compliment. But, no, I think it would be a horrible job.

MORGAN: Why -- if you see it as such a low down profession, why are you so obsessed with it?

COULTER: Well --

MORGAN: I mean --

COULTER: -- it's powerful.

MORGAN: I remember the other day that you stay up like until sort of three, four in the morning immensely writing your words --


MORGAN: -- of fury and bile.


MORGAN: And you sleep until noon, is this right?


MORGAN: That's a bit weird, isn't it?

COULTER: Well, that's when I get up early.



MORGAN: That's a bit unusual.

COULTER: Not for a writer, it isn't.

MORGAN: You don't think --

COULTER: Have you seen "The Shining?"


COULTER: Jack Nicholson. That's me.

MORGAN: Yes, exactly. Weird.


MORGAN: And slightly scary.

COULTER: And that's why I'm so happy I'm out. It's finally done.


COULTER: Hey! Let's talk about the book.

MORGAN: Will you stop the shameless plugs?

COULTER: It's out today.

MORGAN: Let's talk Weiner.

COULTER: It's a fine little book.

MORGAN: Let's talk Weiner.

COULTER: I would love to talk Weiner, because that comes right back to the book.

MORGAN: If -- so we've got to point your books out.

Now, tell me about Weiner.

COULTER: Among the things I like is that in his press conference yesterday, he, you know, admitted that he sent the -- the pecker photo out and said he sent it as a joke. And I would just say, you know, score. A totally great joke.

Now, how does that joke go again?

A naked congressman walks into a bar.

The other thing I find --

MORGAN: Should he resign?

COULTER: Yes, I mean, the -- this is the difference between, among many others, among Democrats and Republicans on this. All of our sex scandal guys, not only do they resign or don't get reelected, except one and I'll mention him in a minute. But we don't care. We don't try to rehabilitate them. We don't try to defend them.

Look at Edward -- Senator Kennedy, Teddy Kennedy. He kills a girl he's having an affair with. You've got Clinton.

MORGAN: Who --

COULTER: You have Edwards.

MORGAN: -- who is defending -- allow me to -- who's defending women?

COULTER: Well, last week, they're -- your network --

MORGAN: My -- my --

COULTER: -- was showing, "and coming up, we have a special on hacking and how easy it is to hack." You were all attacking Breitbart. Nobody even talks about Weiner over the weekend.

MORGAN: But Breitbart --

COULTER: There was --


COULTER: -- with the deliverer of the news --

MORGAN: Well, this again comes down to your problem, which is, it's a particular thing. And you're not the only one. I saw Bill O'Reilly do the same thing. It's like the story becomes instinctive in your heads, it is a left-wing conspiracy --

COULTER: No, it becomes instinctively in my head, an example of mob behavior because --

MORGAN: how do you --

COULTER: -- what mobs do --

MORGAN: -- how do you (INAUDIBLE) moment of -- of glory.

COULTER: Yes, he was fabulous.

MORGAN: Is he fabulous?

COULTER: What mobs do is create -- and I have a chapter on this. They create messiahs of their leaders.

And we don't do that. We don't -- we don't put all of our hopes in a politician. Ronald Reagan wasn't even the most popular conservative his first year in office. He was number three.

Look at all of the encomiums for Obama and Clinton, the angel --

MORGAN: Who -- who attacked --

COULTER: -- Obama, he's (INAUDIBLE).

MORGAN: Who attacked Breitbart?

COULTER: You're joking.

MORGAN: Wait a minute. Who seriously, on mainstream media, attacked him?

COULTER: I was traveling all -- all week last week, just a copy out at the beginning. I was in three different states in three different days. Jeffrey Toobin, that CBS woman, I forget her name --

MORGAN: It's not great. I mean, because there's not a massive onslaught, is it?

COULTER: No, basically the entire mainstream media. It was all about --

MORGAN: No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no.

COULTER: -- Andrew Breitbart.

MORGAN: It wasn't, though. That's the point. It wasn't.

COULTER: Yes, it was.

MORGAN: No. It wasn't. Most of it was why are --


COULTER: -- Chris Matthews. It was Joan Walsh and some other guy --

MORGAN: Here was my --


COULTER: And when Matthews just asked about --

MORGAN: I saw Breitbart give a (INAUDIBLE) on CNN. Here's -- here's my -view --

COULTER: That isn't the point. When they -- instead of talking about Weiner --

MORGAN: Here's my point -- COULTER: -- you attacked the deliverer of the news.

MORGAN: Here's my point. It's perfectly natural to be suspicious of Mr. Breitbart.

COULTER: Really?

Because I wasn't suspicious of that guy Chris Lee.


COULTER: I didn't demand to know who put that photo out.

MORGAN: Wait a minute. Because (INAUDIBLE) --

COULTER: The same thing with Mark Foley.

MORGAN: Wait --

COULTER: Do I even know who put out the Mark Foley --

MORGAN: Do you ever --

COULTER: -- story?

MORGAN: -- ever calm down?

COULTER: Now, you're taking this very long question which I'm trying to give an answer, which is so contradicting --

MORGAN: On Mr. Breitbart, is it not understandable people might be at least skeptical given his track record?

COULTER: I don't know who exposed Mark Sanford. A conservative reaction is not to say, who put that out? Let's attack that person.

MORGAN: Why didn't the Republicans expose Arnold -- Arnold Schwarzenegger?

COULTER: Good. Get rid of him.

MORGAN: Arnold Schwarzenegger?

COULTER: Nobody said why, damn that "L.A. Times" for exposing this, I don't believe it.

MORGAN: He had already left office. It was too late. There wasn't any damage to be done, other than to his family.

COULTER: Well, it wasn't too late in the case of John Edwards. Everyone seems to know that in the media coverage. What -- everybody knew that Clinton was lying.

And, frankly, any sane person last week knew that Anthony Weiner was lying. He goes from quick -- Twittering that he's been hacked to as soon as a lawyer gets involved, saying it was a prank -- MORGAN: Yes, but you're kind of creating this atmosphere that the left-wing all ganged up against Breitbart to defend Weiner.

COULTER: No, my point --

MORGAN: They didn't.

COULTER: -- is --

MORGAN: They didn't. And I would say --

COULTER: -- now, if you would listen --

MORGAN: -- again --

COULTER: -- to my answer --

MORGAN: -- because of the way that the current inflammatory cable news cycle works --

COULTER: Yes, yes, yes, I've got that. Now, here's the --


MORGAN: -- you guys, that first reaction is it has to be another left-wing conspiracy. It wasn't. He gets exposed. He says, "I've been hacked." When the truth emerges that he hasn't, it's all over. The only question now is --


MORGAN: -- what's he still doing there?

COULTER: -- because he has to hold a press conference because the photos came out.

OK, here's the answer. The point is that when a Republican is caught in a sex scandal, Republicans do not think, oh, we must save him. We must attack anyone who's put this out.

We say: good, good riddance.

Democrats -- I mean, Kennedy stayed in the Senate for years and Adam Clymer of "The New York Times" wrote how Mary Jo Kopechne, the woman he killed, his mistress, how she might have appreciated the good work he did in the Senate when he continued to live.

Bill Clinton's ferociously defended. I promise you, no Republican would have stayed in the presidency after doing what Bill Clinton did.

I mean, I suppose with Weiner, we're -- we're moving up in the world. Congratulations, Democrat. And perhaps today, if a Democrat senator drove his mistress of a bridge into a pond and drowned her, perhaps Democrats would not rally around him the way they did around Ted Kennedy. So, we're making progress with the Democrats.

MORGAN: The only flaw in your passionate argument is that nobody is rallying around Weiner.

COULTER: Well, not now because he admitted it all.

MORGAN: Nobody was rallying around him.

COULTER: It was not mentioned on one Sunday --

MORGAN: Nobody --

COULTER: -- show.

MORGAN: -- was running around Weiner. You have invented this in your head because you're so madly demonic --


MORGAN: -- ironically, about the liberals.


MORGAN: You see them everywhere. I'll bet you wake up in the morning --

COULTER: Then why --

MORGAN: -- whoa, there's a liberal in my bed.

COULTER: Why was -- I think you wake up and go whoa, there's someone who actually --


COULTER: -- can see the world clearly.

MORGAN: Do you --

COULTER: That's what frightens me.

MORGAN: Do you hallucinate the liberals, seriously?

COULTER: Do you hallucinate about someone who --

MORGAN: Are they there in your face?

COULTER: -- clearly sees the world and you aren't grasping it, so you get angry and frustrated and attack that person?

MORGAN: I never get angry.

COULTER: Why was Wolf Blitzer --

MORGAN: A calm bastion of -- COULTER: -- doing a story on hacking last week?

MORGAN: Because Anthony Weiner said publicly in an interview with Wolf Blitzer, "I was hacked." Until evidence emerged that he hadn't been, why should we --

COULTER: The evidence had emerged.

MORGAN: Well --

COULTER: We're all sane people.

MORGAN: Really?


MORGAN: I'm not so sure. He was very persuasive.


MORGAN: He was very, very clear.

COULTER: -- you have got to be kidding me. He couldn't say with certitude if the pecker was his?


MORGAN: And on that bombshell, I want to come back and talk to you about you, and get into what makes Ann Coulter tick and turn you into such a little volcano.

COULTER: I'm not talking about me.

MORGAN: I think you will be


MORGAN: Back now my special guest. And she is special, Ann Coulter. There aren't many Ann Coulters to the dollar, are there?

Let's talk about you for a moment. Engaged three times. You're 50 in December, are you?

COULTER: Don't talk about either engagements, Social Security number, age or anything else.

MORGAN: Is it true that you once sort of lost two years of your age, that you put on your driving license you were --

COULTER: There are apparently more than one Ann Coulter in this country.

MORGAN: You have never deliberately put the wrong age on a document?

COULTER: I don't answer questions about myself. But I will say that I'm not supposed to, and I think like most public figures don't talk about anything that wouldn't involve -- that you would not want the most dangerous stalker to know or have. So I will not be answering private life questions. That's why we call it a private life.

MORGAN: I love that defense. I should use that one. It is all about stalkers.

Why are you skirting around issues about yourself? You're interesting.

COULTER: I don't talk about my private life.

MORGAN: I'm not talking about your private life.

COULTER: I don't talk about myself. I'm -- Ann Coulter isn't interesting. I very a very calm, boring life.

MORGAN: You don't. That's the point. You're an agent provocateur.

COULTER: I write. My writing is interesting.

MORGAN: You're very personal about everybody else.

COULTER: Not about people's private lives. I don't know anything about you.

MORGAN: Can I throw some hypotheticals at you.

COULTER: No. Yes, but I won't answer them if they're about my private life.


COULTER: You can throw me a hypothetical about anything involving the things I write and talk about.

MORGAN: If you had a daughter or son who came to you and said they were gay, how would you feel?

COULTER: How would you react?

MORGAN: I would be fine with it.


MORGAN: Would you?

COULTER: I can't imagine being married.

MORGAN: That wasn't the question.

COULTER: Well, that's the first step. And I'm not going to --

MORGAN: You must have imagined being married. You've been engaged three times.

COULTER: You know, don't believe the things you read.

MORGAN: You haven't been engaged three times?

COULTER: Maybe, who knows? I don't keep count.

MORGAN: You won't answer on issues --

COULTER: About me.


COULTER: Let's talk about things I write about. I write about public issues. I don't write about me. You're going to eat up this whole segment with me not answering questions.

MORGAN: You're someone who says, for example, "my only regret with Timothy McVeigh, he didn't go to the "New York Times" building."

COULTER: Are we going through the biggest hits. That's literally a decade ago.

MORGAN: We're going through inflammatory things you said. If I'm going to say anything about John Edwards in the future -- it is irrelevant now -- wait -- I wish he had been killed in a terrorist assassination plot.

COULTER: OK. We'll take them one by one. Don't just read the greatest hits without me saying anything. Now I'm ready to talk.

MORGAN: Many people would say they're the most grotesque hits.

COULTER: Apparently. The first one was I was talking about how the "New York Times'" entire -- 80 percent of their obituary on Ronald Reagan, one of America's greatest president who ended the Cold War -- 80 percent of it was on Iran/Contra. It was like a man associated with Iran/Contra died this day.

So I was talking to a reporter and said my regret with Timothy McVeigh -- get this down -- is that he didn't go to the "New York Times" building.

MORGAN: Do you wish you hadn't said it?


MORGAN: Yes, you do.

COULTER: As for the second one --

MORGAN: Yes, John Edwards.

COULTER: Everyone was so upset.

MORGAN: Wish he had been killed in a terrorist assassination plot.

COULTER: Yeah. Because -- but, sometimes like --

MORGAN: Do you feel that?

COULTER: It was because something was happening that week. What was happening that week was everyone was screaming at me for a joke I made about John Edwards. And Bill Maher goes on his show and says, I wish Dick Cheney -- excuse me. Let me finish this point. And said -- I wish Dick Cheney had been killed in a terrorist attack. And there was no reaction to that.

So I was referring to what Bill Maher had said. What I said was about what Bill Maher said.

MORGAN: You're still responsible for your words, aren't you?

COULTER: My responsibility is for making fun of Bill Maher, or making fun of I suppose liberals for not reacting to Bill Maher, for saying this horrible thing about Dick Cheney. Not a peep out of anyone.

I make a joke about John Edwards, the world blows up. I'm asked about my joke about Edwards and I say well, I guess I have learned my lesson. I said Bill Maher said about Dick Cheney he wished he had been blown up in a terrorist attack. I guess I learned my lesson. Next time I say something about John Edwards, I'll say I wish he had been blown up in a terrorist attack.

MORGAN: How about this: "I think the government should be spying on all Arabs engaging in torture as a televised spectators sport, dropping daisy cutters throughout the Middle East and sending liberals to Guantanamo." That was one of your own columns.

COULTER: That needs no explanation. Yes, it is beautiful. Beautifully written.



MORGAN: That wouldn't, in any way, fall into demonic rabble- rousing.

COULTER: No, it would the not. If you let me talk about my book, your viewers would understand that more.

MORGAN: I'm taking the premise of your book --

COULTER: You're taking the title of the book and asking me if it is demonic. No, it is not demonic.

MORGAN: When you say that all Arabs should be spied, we should engage in torture as a televised spectator sport, dropping daisy cutters throughout the Middle East, send liberals to Guantanamo -- isn't that exactly the kind of mob rabble-rousing that you accuse the liberals of in "Demonic".

COULTER: No, it is not.

MORGAN: What is the difference?

COULTER: The difference is if you read this in the full analytical context of where I wrote it, it was manifestly intended as a joke. It was taken as a joke. It has not -- as I describe at great length in this book, all of the political violence in this country for the last 100 years -- every presidential assassination attempt has either come from a crazy person or from a liberal.

If I said something that was hyperbole, or not intended to be hyperbole, and my people reading it didn't take it as a joke or hyperbole, and they went out and they actually committed political violence, I might tone down the hyperbole.

MORGAN: So that's the end of round one. Come back again. I enjoyed that, round one.

COULTER: Round one.

MORGAN: To Morgan.

Coming up, the man that Ann Coulter says will lose the presidency, Mitt Romney, although she's now changed her mind and had a dramatic U-turn.

After the break, I'll ask him where he stands on abortion and whether his views, like Ann's, have changed.



MITT ROMNEY, REPUBLICAN PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: My position has been the same throughout my political career. And it goes back to the days of 1970. I will preserve and protect a woman's right to choose and am devoted and dedicated to honoring my word in that regard.



M. ROMNEY: And I was always personally opposed to abortion, as I think almost everyone in this nation is. And the question for me was, what is the role of government?


MORGAN: That was Mitt Romney on NBC's "Meet The Press," holding one view in 2002 and what looked like a completely different view five years later.

Where do you stand on abortion?

M. ROMNEY: The same place I did when I ran for president last time around, which is I'm pro-life and proud to be so.

MORGAN: But you weren't always pro-life?

M. ROMNEY: That's correct. When I ran for governor, I believed I could keep the law as it was. And I said I'd keep the law as it was. Then when I became governor, a piece of legislation came to my desk which would have led to the creation of new life for the purposes of destroying it. And I simply couldn't sign it.

And I -- I met with my staff and said, look, I've got to write why I have changed my view in this regard. It was one thing to talk about it philosophically, it's another thing, as governor, to sign a piece of legislation that will take human life. I wrote that op-ed while I was governor and became pro-life and I continue to be pro- life.

MORGAN: I mean you're aware it's a very, very hot issue in America, certainly for politicians. And that your critics jump on that as one of the examples of you being just a flip-flop.

How do you -- how do you counter that, given your view has changed so dramatically on that one issue?

M. ROMNEY: Well, Ronald Reagan was also pro-choice and then became pro-life. And George Herbert Walker Bush was pro-choice and became pro-life. And they became pro-life as they took the responsibility of -- of leading. And -- and in that circumstance, they recognized that they...

MORGAN: How many times --

M. ROMNEY: -- they did not -- they could not simply sign up for -- for the taking of unborn life.

MORGAN: On how many issues can you do it before you lose credibility?

M. ROMNEY: Well, the issue of great significance that everybody tells me I should just change my mind on and -- and do the politically expedient thing, which is to say that my health care plan was a terrible mistake, I'm not willing to do.

MORGAN: Gay rights?

M. ROMNEY: I've always been in favor of preventing discrimination against people, whether they are homosexual or -- or straight...

MORGAN: But that would --

M. ROMNEY: -- but --

MORGAN: -- imply --

M. ROMNEY: But now let me --

MORGAN: -- that would imply --

M. ROMNEY: -- let me -- let me finish...


M. ROMNEY: Let me finish.


M. ROMNEY: At the same time, I said I believe that marriage is a relationship between one man and one woman. And that position has not changed. And I read now and then that I've changed my mind on gay rights. It's simply not true. I am in favor of gay rights, but I believe marriage is a relationship between a man and a woman.

MORGAN: Yes, but given that most gays would like the right now to legally get married in -- in many states, you are not in favor of all gay rights, are you?

M. ROMNEY: And at the time when I ran for office, I made that very clear. I met with leaders in the gay community...

MORGAN: Yes, but when you say -- when you say -- if you don't mind me saying -- when you say I'm in favor of gay rights, you're not. You're in favor of some...

M. ROMNEY: Well, what --

MORGAN: -- but not all.

M. ROMNEY: -- what happened was that the --

MORGAN: Am I right?

M. ROMNEY: -- the gay community -- the gay community changed their perspective as to what they wanted. When I ran for governor, one of the big issues was marriage, gay marriage. My opponent said she'd sign a bill in favor of gay marriage. I said I would not, that I oppose same-sex marriage.

At the same time, I would advance the -- the, if you will, the efforts not to discriminate against people who are gay.


M. ROMNEY: But -- but marriage and I'm not...

MORGAN: What -- what is the gay rights that you're in favor of?

M. ROMNEY: Well, equal rights in -- in employment, equal rights in -- I mean, for instance, as -- as the governor, I had members of my team that were gay. I appointed a couple of judged who apparently, I found out were -- were gay. Look, I didn't ask people their sexual orientation...

MORGAN: Does your faith mean that you view homosexuality as a sin?

M. ROMNEY: You know, I -- I -- I still feel quite distinctly matters of personal faith from the leadership that one has in a -- in a political sense, I...

MORGAN: Can you do that?

M. ROMNEY: Absolutely. You're -- you're --

MORGAN: Seriously?

M. ROMNEY: You -- you don't begin to apply the doctrines of a religion to responsibility for -- for guiding a nation or for guiding a state.

MORGAN: What is the Mormon position on homosexuality being a sin?

M. ROMNEY: You know, that's something that you can take up with the church. I'm not a spokesman...

I'm not a spokesman for my church.

MORGAN: Don't you know.

M. ROMNEY: I'm not a spokesman for my church.

MORGAN: Don't you know.

M. ROMNEY: I'm not a spokesman for my church. And one thing I'm not going to do in running for president is become a spokesman for my church or apply a -- a religious test, which simply is forbidden by the Constitution. I'm not going there.

So I -- I can tell you, if you want to learn more about my church, talk to my church. If you want to learn what -- what I would do as president --

MORGAN: OK, well, let me ask you, then --


MORGAN: Do you personally think homosexuality is a sin?

M. ROMNEY: Nice try, but I'm not going to get into --

MORGAN: That's a valid question, isn't it?

M. ROMNEY: It's a valid question and my answer is nice try. I'm not -- I'm not going to --

MORGAN: Nice try at what?

M. ROMNEY: I'm going to tell you that as a -- as a leader of the American people, I will do everything in my power to treat all people with respect and dignity and to -- and to advance the rights people have to choose their own course in life.

MORGAN: There are people watching you saying, "Nice try," Piers, repeatedly, saying, well, why doesn't he just answer the question?

M. ROMNEY: Well, for instance, if you were to say to me, do you think adultery is a sin, do you think someone who -- who -- who does something you disagree with is a sin?

Look, those are terms in the religious context. I'm not here in a religious context. I'm here as a candidate for president. And as a candidate for president or as a president, I would have to represent the interests of all the people. And I don't distinguish between sin and sinner as I'm -- as I'm looking at --

MORGAN: So if you were made president --

M. ROMNEY: -- as -- as I'm looking at a president. I --

MORGAN: If you were made president, you wouldn't make any pronouncements whatsoever of a personal nature about any form of personal behavior?

M. ROMNEY: Well, I -- I'm not quite sure what -- what you're referring to...


MORGAN: -- just hide all that behind the...

M. ROMNEY: I can't -- I can't...

MORGAN: -- of religious belief.

M. ROMNEY: It's hard -- it's hard for me to imagine describing something as a sin in a political sense. You can talk about something being wrong, about something being evil. There are -- there are murderers. That's evil and that's wrong. It also happens to be sin, according to most religions.

But -- but the -- but if the terminology is religious terminology, that's probably not something which -- which would figure into -- to public policy.

MORGAN: I -- I'm now going to bring in somebody after the break who can tell us all about your sins.

M. ROMNEY: Oh, that's good.

MORGAN: Not that I should imagine there are any, but she will know.


MORGAN: And that's your wife, Ann.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK) MORGAN: I'm back with Governor Mitt Romney.

And I've been joined by the glamour end of the Romney market, which is your lovely wife, Ann.



MORGAN: You were hearing that discussion there about sin.

Are there any sins that we should be aware of? Given that so many politicians, at the moment, are being hit by scandal, anything we don't know about Mitt?

A. ROMNEY: Well, you know, after 42 years of marriage, you know a person pretty -- pretty well. And, actually, we dated since we -- we were high school kids. So I know...

MORGAN: Were you each other's first proper partners?

A. ROMNEY: Well, for sure, I hope it was me, because --


A. ROMNEY: -- I was 15.


A. ROMNEY: Yes. And I think, well, Mitt -- no, unfortunately, he was already a pretty big player --

MORGAN: Really?

A. ROMNEY: -- as a senior in high school.

M. ROMNEY: Oh, oh, high school.

MORGAN: Now we're talking.

M. ROMNEY: High school player.

MORGAN: Really?

Would you like to elaborate on this?

A. ROMNEY: He dated all of my girlfriends. He would date them for about six weeks and then dump them.

MORGAN: Seriously?

A. ROMNEY: I was extremely wary.

MORGAN: Heartbreaking rat.

A. ROMNEY: He was -- I was -- (LAUGHTER)

M. ROMNEY: Don't I wish?

MORGAN: Now it -- now it's all coming out.

But here's the interesting thing. Because of the -- the Mormon faith that you have, you don't drink alcohol.

Have you ever drunk alcohol?


MORGAN: You don't -- you've never taken drugs?

M. ROMNEY: No. No.

MORGAN: And presumably, we never -- you never had an affair, because you couldn't have done it?

M. ROMNEY: Of course not.

MORGAN: And you can say that with total non-Schwarzenegger certainty?

M. ROMNEY: Absolutely. I have -- I have tested alcohol. I tried it on one occasion. It was not a good experience. I've -- but -- but drugs, never.

MORGAN: So this is a -- I would say this is one of your trump cards, because when you look at all these politicians at the moment, whether it's Anthony Weiner or it's John Edwards or it's Arnold Schwarzenegger, the one thing we don't have to worry about in America if you're elected president is anything tumbling out of the -- the cupboard, right, Ann?

A. ROMNEY: It better not.


A. ROMNEY: No. He's -- we have -- we have a very, very close relationship and we're devoted to each other. And we've been through some hard times together, too. A lot of joy with those five boys, a lot of difficulties with those five boys, too. But in particular, I've faced some serious health challenges in my life. And --

MORGAN: Well, you suffer from multiple sclerosis?

A. ROMNEY: That's right.

MORGAN: And you -- and you've also had to fight cancer?

A. ROMNEY: And breast cancer, as well.

MORGAN: Yes. A. ROMNEY: So I've had a couple of tough things happen in my life. And I wouldn't be here if it weren't for Mitt pulling me through and giving me the strength to -- to keep fighting. So he -- he's been the -- the sense of my strength when I...

MORGAN: Because when people talk about Mitt Romney, they say safe pair of hands, you know, middle of the road, dare I say a little boring, perhaps, in your public persona?

He argued quite, I wouldn't say unconvincingly earlier, there's a smoldering volcano lurking in the Mitt Romney valley there.

MORGAN: Would you -- would you go along with that?

A. ROMNEY: Absolutely. There's a great deal of passion...

MORGAN: He's a man of passion?

A. ROMNEY: Definitely. I think, you know, he's -- he's -- you -- publicly, they see him maybe more controlled. But in the home setting, I mean the passion comes out, for sure, in many ways.

MORGAN: I bet. Well, now we're talking.


MORGAN: And, I mean, do you want to join in with Here, Mitt?

M. ROMNEY: Well, my -- my sons, unfortunately, refer to something known as a Mitt-frontation.


MORGAN: So you can lose your temper?

A. ROMNEY: Oh, yes. Oh, yes. He --

MORGAN: Quite explosive when he goes?

A. ROMNEY: You know, I -- you know, I will say as both of us have gotten older, you certainly hope you mature. And clearly, that -- it's been something that's how you learn to control your emotions. And he's got -- definitely gotten better with that.

But there are still some Mitt-frontations.

But what do they also call -- what do they call me?

M. ROMNEY: Oh, Ann is the -- the Mitt stabilizer.


M. ROMNEY: She -- she keeps me --

MORGAN: So we have Mitt-frontation --

M. ROMNEY: And the -- and the Mitt stabilizer.

MORGAN: And the Mitt stabilizer.

M. ROMNEY: Right. If -- if I'm away from Ann for longer than a week or so, I just -- I -- I get off -- off the horse. She has to bring me back and moderate me down a bit.

MORGAN: Let's just ask you both, while you're here, because we're talking about the Mormon faith -- and obviously it's very important to you both personally. The governor seemed quite keen to kind of say, look, I'm not going to thrust it down the electorate's throat if I become president, if I mistook you.

But the two do kind of go hand in hand. I mean, there's a recent poll that 25 percent of Americans say they're lees likely to support a Mormon candidate.

That must worry you, doesn't it?

A. ROMNEY: It doesn't worry me. I -- I think people will know us for who we are and that we stand for something and that we believe in something. And if the economy continues to be a problem, I think people are going to be very concerned about where their jobs are going to come from.

Look, Mitt ran in Massachusetts, in a very Catholic state, against an Irish-Catholic woman. The economy was the issue. And he shockingly, with 13 percent registered Republicans, won that election as governor of Massachusetts, because people were concerned about the state that the state was in, and that they saw Mitt as being a capable guy that would do a good job.

MORGAN: And Governor, if -- if America managed to bring itself to vote for its first ever African-American president, do you believe that the mood now is right to potentially vote for its first Mormon president?

M. ROMNEY: You know, I really don't think many people in this country make their vote based upon someone's religion. There may be some who do and I know there are some who do. And that's their right. That's the nature of democracy. But most people look at what is in the best interests of themselves and their family.

And right now, with our economy in the -- the difficulty it's in, and with the issues around the world, with -- with the Arab spring, with the tumult in -- in various corners of the globe, with -- with Iran bent on becoming a nuclear power, they're looking for somebody who has the capacity and the experience to get America right again and create jobs and -- and keep America strong.

And that's -- I think, in the final analysis, I think that's how people will make their decision.

MORGAN: We're going to take a short break. We'll be right back after this


MORGAN: Mitt and Ann Romney, it's been a real pleasure.

Thank you very much for coming in this evening.

And good luck with your campaign.

M. ROMNEY: Thanks.

MORGAN: We'll be seeing Mitt Romney at the Republican presidential primary debate here on CNN live, beginning at 8:00 on Monday.

And that's all for us tonight.

Here is Anderson Cooper with "A.C. 360".