Return to Transcripts main page
Piers Morgan Live
Trayvon Martin Murder Case; Interview with Toure; Interview with Harvey Weinstein; Interview with Reba McEntire
Aired March 30, 2012 - 21:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
PIERS MORGAN, HOST: Tonight, who to believe in the Trayvon Martin tragedy?
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ROBERT ZIMMERMAN, JR., GEORGE ZIMMERMAN'S BROTHER: He didn't pull out a gun and shoot him. George showed tremendous restraint.
SYBRINA FULTON, TRAYVON MARTIN'S SISTER: George Zimmerman hunted my son like an animal.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MORGAN: Emotions boiling over in a case gripping America. New details ahead.
Plus, a movie they don't want your kid to see.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED KID: Get your ass off my book bag. Move! Move!
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MORGAN: The brutality of bullying -- the battle over the harrowing new film.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
HARVEY WEINSTEIN, DIRECTOR/PRODUCER: When you see this movie and you see the kids beating each other up, that's when you draw the line?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MORGAN: I'll talk with the director and producer Harvey Weinstein.
Also, a cowgirl's country legend.
(MUSIC)
MORGAN: Reba McEntire on life, love and what's behind that twinkle in her eye.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REBA MCENTIRE, MUSIC ARTIST: Delicate flower, a little bit ruthless underneath, yes.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MORGAN: And, only in America: Mega Millions. The lottery, the stunning paycheck you have to see to believe.
This is PIERS MORGAN TONIGHT.
(MUSIC)
MORGAN: Good evening.
Our big story tonight is one that's dividing the country: the Trayvon Martin case. The man who shot 17-year-old Trayvon more than a month ago, George Zimmerman, says it was self defense. Tonight, I'll talk to an attorney for the Martins who insists the Zimmerman family is protecting the shooter.
This is what George's brother Robert told me last night.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MORGAN: Who was screaming there, Robert?
ZIMMERMAN: That's my brother.
MORGAN: How can you be so sure? Because Trayvon's family are equally adamant it is their boy.
ZIMMERMAN: You know, that's a very sensitive thing to talk about. I don't blame them for being as equally adamant. I don't blame anybody whose family member they believe or perceive to hear on a tape for being as equally adamant. I would expect nothing less actually. I know that that's George.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MORGAN: Joining me now is one of the attorneys of Trayvon Martin's family, Natalie Jackson.
Natalie Jackson, what did you make of the interview I conducted with Robert Zimmerman?
NATALIE JACKSON, MARTIN FAMILY LAWYER: Well, I thought it was more of the same that we've seen. We've seen it from his father. We've seen it from Joe Oliver. We've seen his from his attorney. And now, we see it from his brother.
It's a tweaking of the story. And it's a bedding of a story to see which story is the best and most acceptable to America.
And it's also coming from people who will never, ever take the stand. These are people who are not involved in the story. They weren't there, they won't take the stand.
We -- our team will ask to please look at the evidence that we know. There probably is more. But what we know right now is that we have a 911 -- we have a call that George Zimmerman made to the police. We have seven 911 tapes. We have three witnesses who said they are sure that George Zimmerman was the aggressor and that it Trayvon that screamed for help.
We have a girl in a phone record that backs up a young girl who says she was on the phone with Trayvon. We have now a video that totally throws out any of the assertions that Robert Zimmerman made.
Robert Zimmerman actually said that one more hit on the head and he would be in diapers. His brother would be in diapers. It's just -- it's impossible -- it's ridiculous. And it shouldn't -- I don't know.
MORGAN: I mean -- do you believe that the family is conspiring to create a version of events best suited to a defense under the "Stand Your Ground" law in Florida?
JACKSON: Yes, I do. In fact, I think that they consulted with someone to help them, with his story. And I will say that because I notice Piers that you did ask Robert three times if George told him something. Robert never said, "Yes, George told me". That's very telling.
MORGAN: Yes.
JACKSON: And I believe he did that because if he would say that George told him something, he could possibly be a witness at trial.
But as it stands, what he said is not admissible in trial. So he can say whatever he wants. Joe Oliver can say whatever he wants. His dad can say whatever he wants.
MORGAN: Well, Natalie Jackson, it's certainly a fascinating case that's gripping America. And I just hope for the sake of your clients, we get to some sense of truth and justice at the end of this. Thank you for joining me.
JACKSON: Thank you, Piers.
MORGAN: I want to talk with a man who has followed the Trayvon Martin case from the very beginning, ABC News' legal analyst Dan Abrams.
Dan, it's a very complicated legal case, isn't it, because of the various laws that Florida has relation to "Stand Your Ground" and so on and concealed weapons and all the other facets to this make it complicated.
From everything that you've seen and read that is factual so far, what is your overview about this case? Should the police based on al we now know have arrested George Zimmerman on that night? DAN ABRAMS, ABC NEWS LEGAL ANALYST: Well, look, we still don't know about the most crucial question. That's exactly what happened that precipitated this event. We know a lot about all the circumstances surrounding it, but there are still some key questions.
And, look, I'm not in any rush here. I think that the authorities ought to take their time. With that said, I expect that there will be an indictment. I expect that after the authorities review all of the evidence here, after they speak to all of the witnesses, some of whom they didn't speak to early on.
It does seem that the publicity surrounding this has led to a lot more information, and information that should have been available to the authorities at the beginning. But now that's happening, and there's a special prosecutor here. And she's made it really clear she may move forward with or without a grand jury here.
So, I'm of the belief that we should make the system work, not call for an arrest today and see what happens because I expect to see some action happening there in the very near future.
MORGAN: Let me play you a clip from my interview with Robert Zimmerman, George's brother from last night. And I'll ask you a reaction for after this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ZIMMERMAN: A lot of the injuries take time to show the bruising. Sometimes the bone breaks and the blood is swallowed, like in the case of, for example, if your hand would be on someone's nose and mouth, preventing them --
MORGAN: Does he have injuries now?
ZIMMERMAN: His nose is still broken.
MORGAN: It's still broken?
ZIMMERMAN: His nose is still broken, yes.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MORGAN: I mean, it is a strange contradiction to the fact that we are led to believe George Zimmerman and Trayvon Martin had this kind of brutal battle on the street and fell on the ground. He was being pounded and everything else. And literally just over half an hour later, we see him in that video in the police station with now presumed timeline looking perfectly OK with no visible damage whatsoever.
What do you make of that?
ABRAMS: Look, I'm not a doctor. The doctors with whom I have spoken have indicated in the vast majority of cases, if someone had their nose broken, there would be some indication of it. We haven't seen a close-up on the video. So, we do have to be careful here. But I have to say, Piers, one of the things that struck me most in your interview with the brother was him saying that Trayvon Martin snuck up on Zimmerman. He made a reference to that in your interview.
And I found that to be particularly striking because that's the key question here. Meaning, I think team Zimmerman is going to have a hard time demonstrating that it was Trayvon Martin who snuck up on Zimmerman when you have on the 911 tape Zimmerman talking about the fact that he's essentially sort of trailing him. And so then the question becomes, so you're saying that Zimmerman is trailing him. Zimmerman stops, and then Trayvon Martin somehow sneaks up behind him in some way, shape or form.
That sounds like that's what Mr. Zimmerman's brother is alleging.
MORGAN: I thought an interesting came from another guest I had last night, Mike Tyson, when I talked to him about this. He said, well how did Trayvon Martin know that George Zimmerman have a gun? Because if you believe what the brother was telling me last night, that George Zimmerman was reacting because Trayvon was trying to grab his weapon off him, to use against him and was making death threats.
But he didn't explain how Trayvon Martin would have known that George Zimmerman had a concealed weapon.
ABRAMS: It's also hard to imagine why Trayvon Martin suddenly wants to kill Zimmerman, right? I mean, what, he sees him following him and decides he's going to die there tonight. And again, yet, this is the problem for Zimmerman is, you've got the 911 tape. You've got him calling 911, him following Martin, and, again, it sounds like Zimmerman's brother is questioning when that stopped.
But this is a tough situation for Zimmerman. And this goes to something you mentioned before, which is the Florida law. Everyone, I know how much people want to knock talk about the law. And they want to talk about the facts.
But the law is really, really important, because I'll tell you this -- if Florida didn't have a "Stand Your Ground" law, and there with the duty as it is in so many states to retreat, I don't se how the authority wouldn't have already charged Zimmerman. They would have had to be able to show that Zimmerman retreated, and that would be tough to show.
But in Florida, you don't have to show that. And that's what makes this case tricky.
MORGAN: Dan Abrams, I'm sure this will run for awhile and I'm sure that we'll talk again. But thank you for now.
ABRAMS: Thank you, Piers.
MORGAN: Coming up, a man who took exception to my interview with George Zimmerman's brother started a Twitter war about it. Toure is here. (COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
MORGAN: The Trayvon Martin case (INAUDIBLE) America with emotions running high. I interviewed George Zimmerman's brother last night. My next guest has been very vocal about the interview on Twitter and other air waves.
Joining me now is pop culture commentator Toure.
Toure, you seem very exercised about my interview with Robert Zimmerman. Tell me why.
TOURE, AUTHOR, "WHO'S AFRAID OF POST BLACKNESS": Let me explain to you a little bit at what's at stake here. This is a major moment in American history. America is reaching a boiling point in terms of this issue. And when we allow misinformation and obfuscation and people to be confused about the truth of what's going on, then we become part of the problem and not part of seeking a solution.
And you became part of the problem by allowing Robert Zimmerman to come on your show and spread misinformation and perhaps prevarication throughout the waves, which we know many people will believe.
I mean, the number one problem with having them on the air is the two of them haven't spoken in years. And that comes from George Zimmerman's attorney. You know, at NBC in the hallways, we were laughing at you today. We wouldn't take them. Standards of practices at NBC wouldn't let him get through door.
And you had him on the air and allowed the hundreds of thousands or tens of thousand or whatever number of people watch your show listen to what he had to say. And you aren't challenging him the way that you needed you, too, the way that we needed you to, the way that other more responsible journalists are doing.
MORGAN: We spoke to Joe Oliver, the family adviser about an hour ago. He rang George and Robert Zimmerman's father who has confirmed there is no estrangement. They all talk regularly. So, the fact --
TOURE: Joe Oliver is a major problematic source in all of this.
(CROSSTALK)
MORGAN: With respect -- with respect.
TOURE: We can't even listen to what he's talking about.
MORGAN: With respect, Toure. You've had your say. Let me have mine.
You are incorrect about the estrangement. You shouldn't believe everything you're being told. You're being very vocal. You tried to portray me as an unprofessional journalist who last night didn't challenge Robert Zimmerman.
Anybody with a dispassionate mine who watched that interview saw me challenge him repeatedly throughout the 20 or so minutes that we conducted that interview.
Let's play a clip and show you what I mean.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MORGAN: How do you explain as a family the video that came out last night of your brother within not much time after this incident walking around, unaided, perfectly OK, with no apparent markings to his face? If you get a broken nose or the kind of head injuries sustainable from having your head smashed on the concrete floor, you're going to have blood everywhere. You're going to have injuries. There is nothing.
I mean, we're looking at images now. There's no visible sign of any attack. How do you explain that?
ZIMMERMAN: We're confident the medical records are going to explain all of George's medical history.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MORGAN: Now, unless I'm mistaken, Toure. That is a clear challenge by me. So what are you talking about?
TOURE: Well, what did Robert Zimmerman say in response to that? And what did you say in response to his response? I heard you tried -- I appreciate that are among those of us who agree that George Zimmerman said coon on the tape. I saw you try to push him on the issue. He obfuscated and allowed those who want to believe that he didn't say coon, which is rather clear to many of us.
You allowed him to sort of prevaricate and say, well, maybe it was a different word. You allowed him to talk about he's the most honest brother. How would that even be quantified? And why is that not challenged?
You allowed him to say he was going to Target. It's not a neighborhood watch. What are you talking habit?
MORGAN: Toure, calm down. I don't wish to give you a lesson in how to be a professional journalist.
TOURE: Well, you couldn't do that.
MORGAN: If you let me finish. If you watch the interview back, you will see that I challenge him repeatedly about that particular of words that his brother used under his breath, repeatedly, as any professional journalist will do. What is the next part where you say I didn't challenge him? Remind me.
TOURE: I already said several. You allow him to say he's the most honest brother. MORGAN: Remind me of some where -- remind me of some where - remind me of some moments in the interview where I didn't challenge him.
(CROSSTALK)
TOURE: He said that he was going to Target and not on neighborhood watch. I think we pretty much established that he was on the neighborhood watch. And not going to Target with his gun.
MORGAN: Tell me, what do you think happened, Toure? Because you seem to be abreast of many more facets of information than anybody else at the moment. Tell me what you think happened.
TOURE: I'm not abreast of any more facets of information than anybody else at MSNBC. We all share the information that is coming into us from multiple sources. So, we're all --
(CROSSTALK)
MORGAN: MSNBC, as has NBC, has all been running clips of my interview, without challenging the veracity of the testimony. Nor are they quibbling with the news value of the brother of George Zimmerman going on the record and giving his version of events. At no stage did I --
(CROSSTALK)
MORGAN: Wait a minute. At no stage did I give any sense that I agreed with what he was saying. I challenged him repeatedly about many of the things that he was saying.
TOURE: What you understand as challenging, perhaps, maybe that goes in England. That's not what we do in terms of challenging in America.
I saw a person who was saying things that didn't ring true to me. And I would have liked to seen him pushed and challenged, more follow- up, more pushback. More research to understand what you're saying does not ring true, sir. And I --
MORGAN: Which part of this -- which part of this story do you think I'm not really aware of given I've covered it for a week now. I've interviewed Trayvon's parents, I've interviewed George Zimmerman's brother --
TOURE: A whole week. Wow.
MORGAN: Yes, I've been running this for a week. I'm interested to know which part of the story you don't think I'm fully aware of the facts about. Explain to me.
TOURE: Well, I mean -- the story that Robert Zimmerman wants to tell about this beating is -- cannot possibly be true. So, yes, you're pushing back lightly a little bit. Just a tiny little bit. But when we look at this videotape where he's walking to the police department, it's impossible that his story is true. So, at that point we can't give him a light push back. We have to give him a much tougher follow-up than that because this story --
(CROSSTALK)
MORGAN: Toure, that is where you are revealing yourself to not be a professional journalist because actually, from that video, you cannot see for a 100 percent fact that he has or has not broken his nose.
TOURE: You can see quite clearly that person's face is not puffy.
MORGAN: Allow me to finish. Allow me to finish.
TOURE: He's not had a bloody nose in the last 30 minutes. That's quite clear.
MORGAN: Allow me to finish. We do not know if it was cleared up. We don't know this information yet. We also know --
TOURE: You can't clear up a broken nose.
MORGAN: Allow me to finish a sentence, Toure. I also got Robert Zimmerman to say categorically that the medical records will substantiate the broken nose. That's a very revealing piece of information. I look forward to seeing them if they do.
TOURE: If it comes out.
MORGAN: Exactly. But at least we know that the family believed the medical records will confirm their story. At no stage in that interview did I say I believed a word of what he was saying.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
MORGAN: We'll take a short break. More with my interview with Toure when we come back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
MORGAN: I return to this. Are you saying that Robert Zimmerman invented all his story on my interview last night? Are you saying that his father, who an hour before our interview just now has taken place, was asked directly is there an estrangement and said directly there isn't -- is he lying, too? Is everybody apart from you lying? And are you abreast of more information than anybody else in America right now?
TOURE: One thing I notice is obviously the Zimmerman family is banding together to try to keep George out of jail for the rest of his life. So that's quite obvious what their motivation are to say the things that they're saying.
I also notice that between Robert, George, and the father, and the attorney, that there are not consistent stories being told. So, we're not getting a consistent story that we can wrap our heads around. I mean, we have not heard before that he was actually going to Target, instead of on the neighborhood watch.
You know, I mean, he's sort of reading some of the story from the "Orlando Sentinel" and making the other story up. And I don't understand why it's not clearer to you why this is a witness who needs to be treated a little more hotly and pushed back a little bit more, and why other people are not rushing to have him on the their airwaves because he doesn't know George Zimmerman that well and they haven't spoken about this, which also Joe Oliver, who you quote, has admitted he's not spoke on the George Zimmerman about this.
So, how is he telling us things that may or may not happen when he too has not spoken? These individuals are not telling a consistent story.
MORGAN: Toure, Toure --
TOURE: They're spreading inconsistent information.
MORGAN: Toure --
TOURE: And this is not helping America at an incredibly difficult moment.
MORGAN: If I could just point out two things. One, Brian Williams, I think you're aware of him, he's the face of NBC News, through his "Rock Center" show, they are trying to get Robert Zimmerman on the show. Are you aware of that?
TOURE: That's not the information that I had 30 minutes ago.
MORGAN: OK, maybe news has taken over for you.
Secondly, you tweeted this on the 19th of March. "New slang. You're Zimmermaning me equals you're killing me."
That's a pretty serious responsible piece of journalism, isn't it, Toure?
TOURE: In the first days, in the first weeks of the situation, what many people were doing, what I was trying to do in that was to pile on and to say, hey, look, this guy is not doing the right thing. This guy has harmed somebody in our community. Some people misconstrued that and I'm sorry about that. But this is an incredibly serious situation and I understand --
MORGAN: So serious that you felt that -- so serious that you felt the need to throw (ph) out jokes.
(CROSSTALK)
TOURE: I mean, you're showing you don't understand America because I was trying to do there --
MORGAN: No, no, I understand America very, very well, Toure.
TOURE: You might call it the blues, we might call black humor. Not African-American humor. But black humor. Dark humor.
These are things that are common in America that sort of --
(CROSSTALK)
MORGAN: Dark humor.
TOURE: -- laugh to keep from crying. Once again another black person who is unarmed and innocent and not doing anything wrong has been killed. And this is incredibly painful and goes back before you were born and before your father was born and before my grandfather was born.
MORGAN: Yes.
TOURE: So these are things that hurt as an American very deeply. And you are too new to this situation to fully understand what's really going on here and what's really at stake for America.
MORGAN: What a load of fatuous nonsense you speak, Toure, don't you? You think you have the only right to speak about what's serious in America. You think I don't have the right as somebody from Britain who spent the last six or seven years here to address the story like this with the seriousness it deserves with the responsibility.
TOURE: Six whole years. You have the right.
MORGAN: Yes.
TOURE: You have the right. But you're showing us that you don't fully understand what's going on here.
(CROSSTALK)
MORGAN: What don't I understand? No, just deal with this. What don't I understand? What don't I understand about America?
TOURE: You're showing you clearly don't understand the depth of the pain in the American soul that is at play in this situation.
MORGAN: What a load of nonsense. Absolute nonsense. You clearly don't watch my show. You don't have to. No one is forcing you to.
If you had watched my show, you'd have seen exactly the seriousness and responsibility that I brought to our coverage in the last week.
TOURE: I'm not saying --
(CROSSTALK) MORGAN: Robert Zimmerman gave fascinating new information.
TOURE: I'm not saying you take the case lightly, but there are notes, subtleties, nuances -- there's a depth of history within this that you can't possibly understand.
MORGAN: Do you believe that George Zimmerman murdered Trayvon Martin?
TOURE: Yes.
MORGAN: So you've already tried him? You've convicted him?
TOURE: You asked me what I think.
MORGAN: You called me -- you called me -- you called me an irresponsible journalist. Really? That is professional? Professional journalism means that you have just --
(CROSSTALK)
TOURE: -- George Zimmerman is clearly showing repeatedly racist bias against a person who he does not know and has never seen before, and is pouring all these sort of stereotypes into this person.
That's even before we get to coon. They always get away, which is ridiculous because the jails are filled with millions of black men. But he thinks they always get away. He's up to no good. He's got his hands in his pants. He's on drugs.
It's a 17-year-old boy walking down the street talking to his girl on the phone. None of those things are true. But he's already said all those things.
And then we have the other 911 call, which I imagine will be extraordinarily damaging if we ever get to a court of law, where we hear someone screaming, which clearly sounds like a young boy and not a 200 something pound 28-year-old man with a gun.
A person, however, is screaming. There's a gunshot. And there's no more screaming. That sounds to me pretty damning. It reminds him of the face Emmett Till, bashed in the coffin, where we see here's evidence of a black body being destroyed wrongfully, innocently. And the justice system, of course, not coming to his aid.
MORGAN: I've raised many questions about the justice system, the legal process, as anyone who has watched the show in the last week knows. What I haven't done is convict George Zimmerman because I haven't seen all the facts yet. You berate me for a lack of professional journalism.
But you have just said that you believe he murdered him. You have a very biased, one sided opinion of this, based on your assessment of the limited amount of facts that we have at our disposal. That's your prerogative. I don't challenge you. I simply say that as a fact. You also think it's OK to do stupid dumb jokes, mocking -- what did you call it, Zimmermaning (ph) me? You're killing me.
So we are different people. I like to think that I'm a professional journalist, Toure. I think you are something else. But I appreciate you joining me tonight.
Coming up, America's epidemic of bullying and what Hollywood mogul Harvey Weinstein is doing about it.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: How can I help you guys?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: My voice is shaking. I'm very upset. I'm going to be honest, I'm upset enough I don't want him to ride the bus anymore.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Get your ass off my book bag.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Move! Move!
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: If they're out of your care, they're in someone else's who is just as capable of you of keeping them safe. And I don't feel like that.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MORGAN: Statistics are absolutely shocking. Some 13 million American kids will be bullied this year; 160,000 kids stay home from school every day because of fear of bullying. And words of all, bullying victims are up to nine times more likely to consider suicide than non-victims.
The documentary "Bully" is an attempt to finally do something about it. Joining me now is Harvey Weinstein, co-chairman of the Weinstein Company, and Lee Hirsch, director of "Bully."
Gentlemen, welcome. Harvey, I can almost see the steam blasting out of your ears because the MPAA wanted to give this movie an "R" rating. Your complaint about that, which is a pretty valid one, is that why make a movie about bullying if a lot of the kids that really need to see it will be deterred because they can only go see it with their mom or dad? Is that right?.
HARVEY WEINSTEIN, WEINSTEIN COMPANY: That's right, Piers. You've been a champion on this cause. I have to tell you that when I appeared before the MPAA I brought Alex Libby, who is one of the young boys we just saw in the clip in the -- from the movie. He was so incredibly impressive about wanting to have kids see the movies and having kids exact peer pressure.
When I was a kid and my mom took me to "Sound of Music", I ran out of the theater. Anything that spells like medicine, no kid is going to see. So this is a movie that these kids have to see and make their own decision. I thought the rating was really just not called for and really unsympathetic.
MORGAN: What I thought was so utterly ridiculous is that "Hunger Games" has come out, and it's -- from all accounts, it's a very popular movie and it's taking a lot of money at the box office. But "Hunger Games" is about kids killing kids. That kids a PG-13 rating. How can they justify that?
WEINSTEIN: I don't know how they justify it. I saw "Hunger Games." It's a fun, terrific ride. Great book. Jennifer Laurens, incredible. Good directing, good everything.
But there's a scene in this movie where in the course of 30 or 40 seconds, 10 kids are massacred. You see a 10-year-old get killed. How the hell does that get a pg-13 and "Bully" gets an R? It is unconscionable.
MORGAN: Let me bring in Director Lee Hirsch here. Lee, I really can't understand that hypocrisy from the MPAA, because how can you tell me -- I've got four kids, three teenagers, one near teenager. And the idea that they go to a movie and watch these kids getting massacred, and that is going to traumatize them less, apparently, than listening to a few "F" words that they hear every single day on the school bus, in the school playground, on the streets.
Isn't it time they woke up, the MPAA, and realize that what this movie is trying to do -- I do feel passionately about this. What this movie is trying to do is stop children being bullied. Not encourage them to massacre each other.
LEE HIRSCH, DIRECTOR, "BULLY": First, thank you for having me. It's a great honor to on your show. I agree. I think there's an absolute double standard. We set -- we send the message that violence exploitation is glorified and sexy and OK. And if comes out film after film.
Here you have a movie that is very real. There's not a huge amount of profanity. And they slam it with this R. I think there are many people in the MPAA that like to overturn it. I think the system is outdated. And I think half a million Americans have said that this rating should be overturned.
I hope -- I still hope and have faith that they can find a way to do that. It's great to have Harvey by my side in leading that charge.
MORGAN: Well, the great thing about having Harvey by your side leading the charge, he's like the old charge of the Light Brigade, because, of course, you've rallied the celebrity troops, Harvey. A stunning list here: Justin Timberlake, Jessica Simpson, Mariah Carey, Katy Perry, Jimmy Fallon, Ryan Seacrest, Hugh Jackman, Chelsea Handler.
The list is endless, all Tweeting, as I have done this week and others at CNN, #BullyMovie, urging the MPAA to see sense and give this -- what are you after? A PG-13. Would that be OK for you? WEINSTEIN: A PG-13 would be 100 percent what we're looking for. These stars have not only stepped up by Tweeting and Facebooking, but they made public appearances. They tape PSAs. It's been a crusade.
I just love that pop stars like Katy Perry, who have like 12 billion Twitter fans, or Mariah Carey, who has seven or 10 million, that a lot of them have gotten into it. Johnny Depp is taking it personally. I tell you when Johnny Depp takes things personally, I would get more insurance at the MPAA.
MORGAN: Lee, let me ask you about the movie itself. Clearly the battle for the rating is one thing. The movie is still going to come out. Why is it so powerful? What is the message that you're really sending with this movie?
HIRSCH: Well, I think it taps into something. I think that are -- as you said, the statistics are staggering. I was bullied. Millions of people are bullied every year. That compounds year after year, age after age. So I think there's a message here for Americans of all ages.
I certainly want teenagers to step up and see it. But I think that it doesn't beat you over the head with this is what you must do. It allows people to see the movie, to walk in these shows, and to make a decision, to make -- you know, if they choose to, to stop -- to step up, to stop it. They have access to make that change.
And it's a very simple movement. I think that's what is giving it its power. People want to talk about this. There's a lot of people that have had this experience, that carry these memories, and that are dealing with it in very difficult situations, day in and day out.
MORGAN: Harvey, it is a fine line, isn't it, sometimes between bullying and kind of child horseplay, the stuff, the banter, the chucking people around in a playground. Where is that line, do you think, to be drawn?
WEINSTEIN: When you she this movie and you see these kids beating each other up, or these kids coming against somebody for there being black, or they don't look the way they're supposed to, or they are gay, or whatever reason, and they get mercilessly beaten up, that's where you draw the line.
Piers, just on a humorous note, I just think this must be my redemption. God must be working in mysterious ways to have somebody with my past temper now defending the "Bully" movie.
MORGAN: Harvey, there is a certain irony, because people in Hollywood are looking at a tag line at the moment over you, which says "mogul takes on bullying; Weinstein takes on bullying."
It's like, wait a minute. I remember this guy. Are you a changed character, as a leopard changes spots, Harvey?
WEINSTEIN: Listen, I never bullied anybody in my life. But I certainly had a temper. And I've always been sorry. This is my redemptive moment.
But while I'm having a redemptive moment, I will tell you that I went to Washington. Lee was there, too. Went to the Senate, saw Bob Casey, who sponsored the School Safety Act. And it's having no traction in Congress. So I tell you, if we overturn the PG-13 and we get that rating done, Congress is next, because one thing I'm not going to do is rest until they pass a Safety Schools Act.
Can you believe something like that's hung up in our Congress? It's absolutely pathetic, the people who are blocking it. But you know, we have 600,000 on a petition. And quick enough, that will be two million. We have all these stars we have mobilized.
Can you just imagine when we hit Washington, D.C. to pass the School Safety Act? They're going to wish we had gone away a long time ago.
MORGAN: I -- I'm already fearful for their consequences. Harvey Weinstein, Lee Hirsch, thank you both very much. Keep up the campaign. It's a terrifically important, powerful movie. I'm happy to support it.
WEINSTEIN: Thank you for being a champion, Piers.
HIRSCH: Thank you.
MORGAN: Coming up, my prime time exclusive with the queen of country. Reba McEntire.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
MORGAN: Reba McEntire is the reigning queen of country, an absolutely fitting title considering she's had dozens of top 10 hits, sold more than 60 million albums, and won awards by the bushel. But Reba is much more than a singer. She's a best selling author, actress. And this Sunday, she co-hosts the Academy of Country Music Awards for the like the 27,000 time.
Reba joins me now. How many times have you done this?
REBA MCENTIRE, COUNTRY MUSIC SINGER: This will be my 14th time.
MORGAN: But your first appearance, much more importantly, on this show.
MCENTIRE: Yes, I'm so excited to be here with you.
MORGAN: You are the queen of country. I mean, lots of people are called the queen of country. But I've done a little record checking of my country fans, the ones who are experts. And they tell me there's only one queen. There are princesses, you know, Dolly, Emmy Lou, but there's one queen.
MCENTIRE: Kitty Wells.
MORGAN: Is that who you think? MCENTIRE: Well, Kitty Wells was queen of country music forever. When I was growing up and being in country music, she was always the reigning queen. And Tammy Wynette was the first lady.
MORGAN: But are you the current queen?
MCENTIRE: If they say they about me, I'll sure take that. But in my eyes, no.
MORGAN: What I love about you is you were born on this small town called Kiowa (ph) in Oklahoma. But crucially to a Cowboy fan --
MCENTIRE: Kiowa.
MORGAN: What?
MCENTIRE: Kiowa.
MORGAN: Kiowa?
MCENTIRE: Kind of like the Kiowa Indians?
MORGAN: Kiowa? How do I pronounce that?
MCENTIRE: Just like you did it.
MORGAN: Kiowa.
MCENTIRE: Kiowa.
MORGAN: Kiowa. Cowboy country. So you were born to a cowboy family in Kiowa --
MCENTIRE: You're doing so well.
(CROSS TALK)
MORGAN: This is what I like best, though. Never mind the fact you live in this wonderfully named place, your father and your grandfather were champion steer ropers.
MCENTIRE: Yes.
MORGAN: In England, I don't even know what that is. What is a steer roper? Is it where -- one of those guys?
MCENTIRE: Yes, it is.
MORGAN: Fantastic. What is so that's so special about the country world? Because it is a special world, isn't it?
MCENTIRE: It's the people. The people are very special. They are very competitive, very egotistical in a way, but very humble in the other sense. Because there's always somebody in this business. And I think it started with Minnie Pearl and Roy Acuff, to put you in your place. We laid the groundwork for you is what Minnie would say. And we paved the road, so it would be easier on you. So now you make it better for the people to come after you. That's your job. That's , your responsibility.
MORGAN: To be a successful country singer, have you had to have gone through dramatic, emotional times in your life? Is it part of the territory, do you think?
MCENTIRE: I don't think so. There are so many young kids that are singing. Take LeAnn Rimes, for instance. I mean, she was a huge success singing "Blue" at an early age.
But I think certain people who are successful in the country music business have old souls. And so maybe it's in their DNA from somewhere back. And it just happens to come out when they're singing a country song, because it's such a story telling type of music.
And that's what I love so much about it. Dolly Parton, I was such a huge fan of hers for all my life, still am. That was what I loved so much about her story -- her songs were the stories that she would tell.
MORGAN: You went through this awful experience when most of your band were killed in this plane crash. And you have talked about this many times. I don't want to go over it again. I just want to ask you what effect that had on your life afterwards, how it changed your outlook on life, to lose so many people that you were so close to in one horrible day?
MCENTIRE: Horrible. It was a nightmare. It's -- how did -- how did it affect me? It crushed me. It made me realize how precious life is. And all I could think of was their mothers.
How could you go through this? How are you going to see the next day? My heart went out to them, their wives, their children. I just couldn't fathom how they were going to go on. I mean, it hurt me and they were my friends. But to be that close as a family, I just -- my heart went out to the family.
MORGAN: Did you resolve to change your life in any way? Did it give you a new perspective? A cliched thing to say, but it's often true, isn't it?
MCENTIRE: It is very true. And it woke me up. If you have somebody you love, you better tell them, because things can happen in an instant to change your life. And do things that make you happy, that makes your life happy. God wants us to be happy. He doesn't want us to be miserable.
MORGAN: You found happiness. You found love. Wasn't the first time around.
MCENTIRE: No.
MORGAN: Second time around better? MCENTIRE: Yeah.
MORGAN: You work out who you really want to be with.
MCENTIRE: I think Norville and I, we both have been married before. And I think we learned from our first marriages. And we know that we weren't perfect.
MORGAN: What did you learn, A, about you as a wife, and B, about the kind of husband that best suited you?
MCENTIRE: The thing I learned about me is that I need to communicate more. I need to quit sulling up. I can sull up for three days.
MORGAN: Really?
MCENTIRE: Oh yes, no talk.
MORGAN: Wow. That's almost world class sulking.
MCENTIRE: It is. I was the A, number one, best in the world.
MORGAN: Three days?
MCENTIRE: Yes, I could go three days sulking up. But you know what? I was miserable. My first husband didn't even know I was sulling up. So it was just affecting me. He loved the silence, so it didn't bother him any.
So that's what I learned. And I learned that Norville and I were the perfect pair because we worked together. We started working together in 1980. And he was my steel guitar player. And then he kept giving ideas and he was my band leader.
He just kept coming on and believing in me. Then he became my manager and then later on my husband.
MORGAN: What would your advice be for being a successful wife?
MCENTIRE: To be a successful wife?
MORGAN: Yeah.
MCENTIRE: To be a very silent partner sometimes is pretty good. Sometimes talking is too much. But I think to be supportive and loving and that's probably the most two important things.
MORGAN: You've got bizarrely a pilot about a TV show in Malibu. "Malibu Country." Is there much call for country music in Malibu?
MCENTIRE: Oh, yeah, everywhere. I'm really glad to be back into television again. It's been since 2006 since "The Reba Show" quit. I play a country singer in Nashville.
MORGAN: No. MCENTIRE: Yes, I do.
MORGAN: What a surprise.
MCENTIRE: I know.
MORGAN: Well, great, good luck with it.
MCENTIRE: Thank you very much.
MORGAN: It's been a real pleasure. Good luck on Sunday. I know you're an old hand at it. But I'll actually be watching. Will you be singing?
MCENTIRE: No. Just them singing, hosting.
MORGAN: I'm not going to watch then. Sorry, Reba, if the queen's not singing, I'm not watching.
It's been a delightful pleasure to meet you. Thank you so much.
MCENTIRE: Nice to meet you too.
MORGAN: The one and only Reba McEntire.
Coming up next, Only in America.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
MORGAN: Tonight's Only in America, Mega Millions. No, not that Mega Millions, the 640 million dollar jackpot that the whole of America is going crazy about.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I bought five for me, five for her.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Definitely paying of my mom and dad's house.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Go move into the building that Jeter lives in.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This is my mad money.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MORGAN: It's not even close to mad money. Let me tell you about real mad money. Hedge Fund Manager Ray Dalio of Bridgewater Associates has made a stunning 3.9 billion dollars in the last 12 months. Put that into perspective, it's more than the GDP of 35 countries, including Belize, at 1.5 billion, St. Lucia at 1.3 billion and Samoa at 600 million.
So as you're waiting in line tonight to buy that last Mega Millions ticket, don't bother looking for Ray Dalio. His American dream, his lottery win has already happened. That's all for us tonight. "Beyond Trayvon, Race and Justice in America" starts right now.
