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Piers Morgan Live
Interview with Marion Jones; Interview with Jackson Brothers
Aired May 27, 2012 - 21:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
PIERS MORGAN, HOST: Tonight: Fallen hero Marion Jones. Her Olympic triumph and the doping scandal that sent her to prison.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MARION JONES, FORMER OLYMPIC ATHLETE: I truly hope people will learn from my mistake.
I made the unfortunate choice to try and cover it up, and I made things a lot worse.
MORGAN (voice-over): Marion Jones, an intensely personal and honest interview.
JONES: I realized while I was in prison, in solitary, in particular, that being number one and being Marion Jones meant nothing in there.
MORGAN: A prime time exclusive -- how she's rebuilt her life.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MORGAN: And a primetime worldwide exclusive with the Jacksons, Jackie, Jermaine, Marlon and Tito back together again on stage after nearly 30 years. And for the first time since their brother Michael's tragic death.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TITO JACKSON: I think our first challenge getting back to the stage would be something in the celebration of 40 years of show business.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MORGAN: This is Piers Morgan Tonight.
(MUSIC)
MORGAN: Good evening. We'll get to my interview with the Jacksons in a moment.
But first, with London gearing up for the summer Olympics in 10 weeks, organizers are vowing to make these the cleanest games ever. Well, one person who knows just how difficult that anti-doping effort will be is disgraced Olympic golden girl Marion Jones. She won five medals at the 2000 games in Sydney, only to lose them all in the wake of a steroid scandal that put her behind bars in 2008. This is her first primetime interview since she came out of prison.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
MORGAN: Welcome, Marion.
JONES: Thank you. Thank you.
MORGAN: Does that sound weird to you even now? Even having your name associated with the word prison? It does to me because I remember the Sydney Olympics. You running like the wind. This incredible athlete. And you were just so inspiring and brilliant. And when I have to even read those words, I feel bad. You know? Never mind how you must feel.
JONES: Yes. Gosh, how do you even put it into words. It has been now, you know, three years since I left prison, and it's still not easy to comprehend. I search for the right adjective to describe, you know, who -- I certainly never would have thought 10 years ago that my life would have taken the turn that it had. And that it has. And so, yes, it's still hard when people describe my history and my situation.
It seems like it's somebody else. Like you're not talking about me. You're talking about to some other person.
MORGAN: Well, there's such an extreme that you've had to endure. You've gone from champion, Olympic champion, multiple Olympic champion, to felon. And the gap between those two positions in the public estimation, I guess in your own estimation is just so massive, isn't it?
JONES: I think people don't really -- it's hard for people to grasp the -- everything that happened. I think when people saw me on television and then they meet me, they're like how in the world can this all happen? But what I try and tell people is that, you know, anybody can make a mistake. And certainly mine was massive. And it was in the public eye. And I've been blessed with this ability to really communicate and connect with people. And so people feel like they know me.
And so when they have to talk about the situation, it's hard for them. Like when I travel, I'll be honest. When I travel people come up to me and they say, I just want to give you a hug. You know, we feel bad for you. They don't know why, but they feel bad for me. And so the journey has been a rough one. But I am happy to say that I'm finally at a place where I'm at peace, if I can -- if you understand that. I made some horrible choices in my past.
MORGAN: What was -- what was the single worst moment for you of the whole thing? When you look back.
JONES: The single worst moment was sitting in solitary confinement on my boys' birthdays and not getting a chance to talk to them or hold them or hug them. And knowing -- not -- people might be surprised by that. It wasn't having to give back my medals. It wasn't the scandal. It wasn't all that. It was not -- it was, I think, disappointing the ones that loved me and cared for me and supported me and cheered me on knowing that I hurt them. That, to me, was the single -- and it's what I deal with every day. That doesn't go away. And, you know, I --
MORGAN: How have you dealt with that? You have two kids. They were pretty --
JONES: At that time.
MORGAN: They were pretty young, right, at the time.
JONES: And one was turning one and one was turning four.
MORGAN: Right. I mean too young to really understand. So -- I mean even now are they aware of what happened to you?
JONES: No, they're not aware. We've been pretty open with my oldest who's 8 years old. Sharing with him certain things. But they have -- they don't really understand. We plan to certainly be -- when we feel that they're ready, share certain things with them and share the story with them. But in my household, we teach our kids that we all make mistakes. Like mommy makes mistakes. I'm not -- and I'm not an exception. But it's what you do after the mistake.
You know, do you try and cover it up? You know I made the unfortunate choice to try and cover it up, and I made things a lot worse. Do you cover it up and then get mom and dad really upset with you or do you come and tell us what you did, we deal with it and we move on? And so when I talk with young people now, that's what I tell them. Hey, you're going to make a mistake. Be prepared. But do the right thing afterwards.
MORGAN: I guess my attitude towards it -- I've never met you before today, it's probably like most people's, is that having shared your dream and this amazing Olympic games you had, and then the terrible disappointment to find that, you know, for want of a better phrase, you cheated in some way.
What I'm curious about is what your emotional journey has been with yourself through that process. Just tell me.
JONES: Wow. It has been a complete 360. You know I certainly think that I got caught in a wave. That's how I describe all this. I got caught up in the wave of fame and fortune and people telling me, patting me on the back and telling me how great I was. And ignoring red flags, you know?
MORGAN: How intoxicating is it? If you're the -- you know, when I watch Usain Bolt now, he's so sublimely arrogant. He does the big bolt, you know, and he's also this incredible athlete. And you know he's loving every second. But, you know that, in itself, can be dangerous.
JONES: Um-hmm.
MORGAN: You've been in that position. How intoxicating is that? JONES: Incredibly. Incredibly. The -- the mistake that it made is that I surround myself with people that would only pat me on the back and tell me that everything that I was doing and saying was right. I distanced myself from people who would give it to me straight.
Like for example, my relationship with my mom, the one person who was going to give it to me straight, I knew that she would, so you know what? I distanced myself, you know. And...
MORGAN: Because you didn't want to hear it?
JONES: Right. You didn't want to hear it. You don't really want to hear that things don't look right. You know, you want to go with the wave. And it's a big mistake that I made. I tell young people, hey, you know, when you get advice from people, make sure it's people that's going to give it to you straight.
MORGAN: I mean, you were how old when you won those -- those medals? Twenty-three?
JONES: Yes, I mean, but even -- even before then, at the age of 15, I made my first Olympic team, you know. And -- and you realize that when you're number one, more people want to talk to you. When you're number one, you make more money and you become important. And that's who you become.
And I realized what -- while I was in prison, in solitary in particular, that being number one and being Marion Jones meant nothing in there.
MORGAN: Yes, I mean --
JONES: You know?
MORGAN: -- it's -- it's the reality check --
JONES: It -- it's extremely...
MORGAN: -- of all reality checks.
JONES: Can I -- can I -- it's an understatement to say it was a humbling experience. But in -- in the same breathe, I have to say that it was a blessing. It was a blessing for me
MORGAN: What did you learn about yourself?
JONES: Well, I -- I -- I realized that -- that my priorities were totally out of whack and that -- that I had to figure out who I was, not Marion Jones, the superstar athlete, the pretty smile, the charm and all that.
Who am I? Why did I make certain choices?
And now, more importantly, now how would I move forward?
You know, it forced me to figure out, I made some bad choices, but it's not over. Things can and will get better if I not -- if I don't just sit on my tail.
MORGAN: I mean although it's been a catastrophic episode for you the last few years, listening to you, in a funny way, finding yourself might be something you never did if you had just carried on being --
JONES: Right.
MORGAN: -- Marion Jones superstar.
JONES: You're so right. I -- I'm -- I -- I can agree with you 100 percent that it wouldn't have happened. It wouldn't have happened. And -- and I possibly could have gotten caught up in the wave that took me so far out that I couldn't -- couldn't get back.
MORGAN: Let's take a short break.
JONES: OK.
MORGAN: I want to come back and talk to you about when you were on the crest of the wave and what happened when that wave broke.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JONES: And so it is with a great amount of shame that I stand before you and tell you that I have betrayed your trust. I want you to know that I have been dishonest. And you have the right to be angry with me.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MORGAN: An emotional Marion Jones in 2007, admitting to steroid use.
And she's back with me now.
I mean, that was some moment. And yet, in itself, it must have been cathartic to finally be able to say, OK, hands up, America, I cheated.
Appalling painful though it is, that's the beginning of the moving on process, isn't it?
JONES: It was. And it is. Every time I have to speak about it, it is a form of healing. And you get to a point -- and I think a lot of people can relate to this. When you carry such a burden for so long, whatever it might be, a lie, a -- a secret, when you're finally able to let it all out, regardless of what the consequences may be -- and in my case, they were certainly severe. And we knew that they were going to be, not as severe as they were.
But it's, you know, a total relief. And I knew that I couldn't carry it any longer. You know, I -- I was married. I had a child. I was about to have another one. And I found myself telling my kids, telling my oldest son, you know, when you do certain things, you make a mistake, you move on. But then I'd turn around and I wasn't living it. I was living -- I was being a hypocrite. And when you have kids, as you know, things become a lot clearer in your life. And you realize that everything you say and do can affect them. And in my case, everything you don't do or say. And I couldn't live with that. I love my kids too much for that.
MORGAN: How difficult was the conversation with your mother when you had to finally have it --
JONES: Oh.
MORGAN: -- and look her in the eye and say, it's true?
JONES: Oh, extremely painful, because, you know, she was and still is my biggest support. And to know that you let down somebody who loves you regardless, who loves me and loves me regardless of the fact that I turned my back, you know, was hard. It was hard.
MORGAN: Did you turn to her, having rejected her in the way that you said you did -- what was the moment you turned back to her?
JONES: Not too long after I -- after I pled guilty. And you know it was simple. It wasn't anything very complicated, just a simple embrace and the whispered sound of my mom saying, I love you no matter what. So it was hard, painful and -- and even when I still talk to her and I see her -- and my family and my close friends, you know, I feel this sense of -- of guilt for -- for disappointing them.
MORGAN: Because your mother, I guess, had lived the great highs?
JONES: Yes.
MORGAN: And had been, I guess, like any mother would be, your daughter is this supreme Olympic champion. It's the American dream at its finest.
JONES: Um-hmm.
MORGAN: And then it becomes a total nightmare.
JONES: Um-hmm. And -- and as a mom, it's tough, because she can't really do anything about it. You know, that's -- I'm her baby. And her baby is an adult and makes certain choices. And all she can do from a distance is pray and -- and -- and love on -- love on me as -- as much as she can. But she can't do anything about it.
And so I can only imagine, as a mother myself, that feeling.
(CROSS TALK)
MORGAN: Was she angry with you?
JONES: No. No. I mean I think throughout the journey and throughout everything, there were moments that she was angry, because she could see me making poor choices and would share with me and -- and that's, I think, why I started to become more and more --
MORGAN: What was the most angry she got with you?
What was the poorest choice your mother thinks you ever made?
JONES: Well, certainly my decision in men.
MORGAN: Yes.
JONES: My relationships.
MORGAN: It's not been great.
JONES: It hasn't. It hasn't. But third time is a charm. The third time is a charm.
MORGAN: Why were you attracted to the bad guys?
JONES: I don't know, I think I saw -- I saw something in them that perhaps I was lacking in my childhood. As I mentioned, my mom was a single mom. And -- and so my biological father was never part of my life.
MORGAN: Do you have any relationship with him at all?
JONES: No. No.
MORGAN: So you -- you were craving a kind of father substitute, possibly?
JONES: Possibly. Possibly. I -- I -- yes, I -- I think that that's safe to say, yes.
MORGAN: Is he still alive, your biological father?
JONES: No, he's passed. He's passed.
MORGAN: Did you have any feelings about that when you heard?
JONES: I did. I was -- it was a very emotional time for me, simply because I got a call from a friend of his saying that he had passed. And I hadn't -- he hadn't been in contact with me for 15 years. And then this friend tells me that, but he kept -- he kept an album of all of my accomplishments.
And I went to the funeral and I sat on the front row of the church and -- because I was the only -- his only offspring. But yet I saw young people getting up speaking about him, saying he was such a father to them. And -- and I couldn't say that.
And so it was just really, really -- it was really, really difficult for me to deal with all that. And -- and -- now so I'm not saying that's the reason the poor choices in relationships, but possibly it contributed.
MORGAN: Not -- but not having a strong male presence in your life and all the pressure on your mom to bring you up and everything, it can't help, can it? JONES: No.
MORGAN: I mean it's just not going to help.
JONES: No. And -- and I -- I certainly know that, from a young age, we realized that I was this -- blessed with so much talent. And from an early age, even my mom has shared this with me -- and she likes to call them the pariahs started coming out of the woodwork when they saw that there was this golden ticket in me.
And she's a single mom and so they -- they'd come out of nowhere and -- and -- and say things.
MORGAN: I mean it's like a shark pool, isn't it?
JONES: Yes.
MORGAN: You know, you are the best bait in town.
JONES: Yes.
MORGAN: And it's the shark pool.
JONES: Yes.
MORGAN: And they're all nibbling. They all want a piece of the action.
JONES: Yes. And it's -- and it's easy to protect when the -- when the child is at home. But by the time the child is old enough and go off to college, how much protecting can you do?
MORGAN: Let's take another break.
I want to come back and talk to you about the moment the door shuts in prison on that first night, how you were feeling.
And then I want to go to happier times.
JONES: Yes.
Can we get there quick, please?
MORGAN: We can get there reasonably quick.
JONES: OK. All right.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
MORGAN: Marion Jones is back with me now Take me back to that night. Your husband drives you, in 2008, to this prison. And you get dropped off and you walk in and they take you to a cell and the door shuts.
JONES: Right.
MORGAN: What are you thinking?
JONES: Like how did this happen?
How in the world is my worse nightmare actually happening?
MORGAN: And you'd gone from 80,000 dollars a race?
JONES: Yes.
MORGAN: I don't know what that is per inch, but it's a lot, right?
(LAUGHTER)
MORGAN: And then suddenly you're in this tiny cell. You're a felon.
JONES: Well, I think to put things in perspective, when I was a child, I used to always want so bad for my name to be written in the paper, for my accomplishments, of course. And -- and my reality now is sometimes I don't want it written in the paper.
And sometimes it's tough being a celebrity. Because when I walked in the prison, unlike most people that go to prison -- I'll tell you, because I don't think you have any history of that. Most people go unknown.
I walked in and everybody knew who I was. There were helicopters circling. There were photographers trying to jump the fence to get that picture. I walked past the TV room where the inmates watched television and my story is being played.
I was there for almost six months. And there were nights that were extremely hard, missing my family.
MORGAN: Your kids went to stay with your family in Barbados, right?
JONES: Correct.
MORGAN: So they were protected, in a sense, I guess.
JONES: Yes.
MORGAN: But you weren't. I mean you're on your own there.
JONES: Right. And -- and I think some of these women would come up and they had been in there 10, 15 years and hadn't had a visit, a letter from a family member. And so at night, when I would sometimes -- I would cry. I'd just be in this deep, deep place, I'd say you know what, Marion, what -- why are you -- why are you acting like this when the woman down the hall has been here over a decade and she has no family that's interested in her?
If she can wake up every day with this sense of hope and faith, I can certainly do it.
MORGAN: Do you think if you hadn't taken...
JONES: Absolutely.
MORGAN: -- any enhancing...
JONES: I would have --
MORGAN: Would you have still won the gold?
JONES: Yes. Yes.
MORGAN: Because that must be the greatest frustration --
JONES: It is.
MORGAN: . Because you would still have been a supreme athlete.
JONES: It is.
MORGAN: And you were so way far ahead of everybody else.
JONES: From -- from --
MORGAN: You didn't need to do this.
JONES: From early on -- from early on, from the age of 14 is when I made my first Olympic team. And -- and to me, the -- the biggest issue was -- was not asking certain questions and not asking the coach, well, what are you giving me, why, why, all this?
You know, I -- I certainly felt and -- and will feel to this day, that my God-given ability would have --
MORGAN: Can I play Devil's Advocate with you?
JONES: Sure.
MORGAN: Because I watched the "Oprah" interview when you came out. And just the one jarring note with me was you appeared to be in some slight denial about ever knowing anything might be slightly dodgy.
And I don't think people bought that. I think they thought, come on, Marion, you knew, even if you weren't asking questions, you knew enough about what was going on. Your husband at the time was -- you know, he was caught. Everyone was getting -- you knew something was going on.
Was it more a case of I'm not going to ask any questions here, but in the back of my head, this is a dangerous situation I'm in? Is that the honest truth?
JONES: No. I -- I'm not going to agree with you in that regard. I think that because I know I had -- you know, people would say, well, you had to have known something was going on because you were -- you were just beating people by so much. You were just annihilating people.
But to me, that's what I've been doing ever since I was young. It's -- this is nothing -- nothing happened during that time to tell me that I was giving -- been -- had been given something that was going to make me that much better.
You know, when I was sentenced, the judge said certain things during the two hour proceeding, saying that, you know, a top caliber athlete has to know, has to know certain changes in their body. And I had to sit there, of course. And I had to listen.
But the reality in my world and in my life was I didn't see any changes. I didn't see -- I didn't see any changes that would have alerted me to certain things.
And -- and, yes, I should have asked more questions. But I trusted my circle. You know, I -- I surrounded myself with -- I was in this bubble. And I felt in my heart, you know, these people, they're not going to do anything to harm me.
MORGAN: The president of the International Association of Athletic Federations said in a statement, "Marion Jones will be remembered as one of the biggest frauds in sporting history."
I mean that was an incredibly harsh thing for him to say, but many people agreed with him at the time. You were forced to hand back the medals.
That moment, when you hand back the medals and you hear this guy say that about you and that is how you're being branded to America, how did that make you feel?
JONES: Well, I didn't -- it -- it was tough to hand back the medals, certainly. But I think that a lot of people overestimate the hardware, I'll be honest. To me, it's the memory.
MORGAN: When the Olympics start this summer, how -- how will your emotions be dealing with that?
I mean do you -- are you able to -- to deal with it in a measured way now --
JONES: Sure.
MORGAN: -- or you still get that awful sense of...
JONES: No.
MORGAN: -- what might have been?
JONES: No, not at all. Not at all. It's -- it's -- I have good memories from my Olympic experience. And I'm a fan of sport. I'm passionate for sport. I sit in front of the television with my kids. We cheer on. We have our favorites. It's not a time that I -- is a somber time for me.
MORGAN: And to any young American athlete who is in the squad, who may be either abusing drugs --
JONES: Or is tempted?
MORGAN: -- keeping it secret or is tempted to or believes it's the only way they can win a gold medal --
JONES: Yes.
MORGAN: -- there's nobody better to ask, what -- what advice would you give them?
JONES: First of all, think about the consequences of your choices. You know, before they make those type of decisions, take a step back. And I developed this message of take the break, take the break before you --
MORGAN: I was going to ask you...
JONES: OK.
MORGAN: -- about that, finally. Because this is something you're very involved with.
JONES: Yes.
MORGAN: And it's -- it's educating young kids, I guess, who may get a break, about how to take it.
JONES: Yes. Well, the big part is, is that -- and it's not just young people, anybody. You see all the time in the news CEOs of companies who make a wrong choice. And if they had just taken a break, if they had just taken a step back and thought about all of this, got proper advice from people who will give it to them straight, not people who will just pat them on the back, if they just take a break and really think about the consequences of their choices, then they'll be able to make better choices in their own lives.
MORGAN: Fortunately, Marion, I've never made a mistake in my life.
JONES: No, of course not.
MORGAN: So this clearly doesn't apply to me, but --
JONES: Right.
(LAUGHTER)
MORGAN: -- it's certain -- it's been fascinating talking to you.
JONES: Oh, thank you.
MORGAN: I've really enjoyed it.
Thank you.
JONES: It's nice meeting you.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK) (MUSIC)
MORGAN: The Jackson 5 recording I Want You Back. It was their first release on Motown. After they left Motown, they became the Jackson's. Now they're going on tour for the first time in almost three decades and paying tribute to their brother, Michael.
Joining me now for a primetime exclusive, Tito, Jackie, Marlon, and Jermaine Jackson. It's their first interview together since Michael's death.
Welcome to you all.
JERMAINE JACKSON: Thank you.
MORGAN: It's fantastic to see you.
JE. JACKSON: It's great to see you.
MORGAN: It's a real thrill. You know I grew up with your music. You know, I mean the moment I hear that I want to get up and start but I won't because no one wants to see that.
But it's also -- it's a bittersweet moment because seeing the four of you together without Michael, you know for everyone that loved all you guys, a very bittersweet moment but for you in particular, this was your brother. How does it feel for you going back on tour, on the road and Michael's no longer here?
JE. JACKSON: Well, we miss him. We're excited to keep the legacy going, the music going. But we miss him so much. But it's something that he would want us to do is to keep it going.
And I guess the challenge, right, guys, was trying to decide what music we were going to do. That was the biggest challenge.
JACKIE JACKSON: That's what the fans wanted us to tour. You know after getting so many e-mails from the fans around the world. I think we owe it to them as well to go out there and perform for our fans. They wanted to -- they want to sing the songs with us and entertain, so ...
MARLON JACKSON: I think with the brothers and each one of us might have, you know our own reason of why -- how we feel on stage without having our brother up there. Because so many years we've always performed and he was right there.
So for me, you know when I'm on stage, I think -- I think about well, Michael used to be right here and now he's no longer but in spirit he will be there with us.
MORGAN: And Tito, how do you feel?
T. JACKSON: Well, I agree with Marlon with what he was saying. What's beautiful about this tour is that we're going to be doing some of the venues that we played prior to Motown like Apollo theatre. JA. JACKSON: Oh, we're excited about that.
MORGAN: In New York.
JE. JACKSON: We started there.
T. JACKSON: So many shows with Michael prior to I Want You Back made me see so.
JA. JACKSON: Six shows a day, six shows a day.
T. JACKSON: Yes, we know -- we know he'll be there with us.
MORGAN: Six shows a day?
JA. JACKSON: Six shows a day.
MORGAN: Is that right?
JE. JACKSON: Yes.
M. JACKSON: (INAUDIBLE) trying to make it, yes.
MORGAN: Well, tell me this. I mean, we'll come back to Michael a little later but when you think of the Jacksons -- I suppose the impression that everybody has is that you guys never really had a childhood.
This thing exploded when you were young and that you've all in some way been damaged by that fact that you never had the chance to be normal. And yet, I've only just met three of you now, I've met Jermaine before. You seem remarkably undamaged on the outside.
You seem like happy guys.
JA. JACKSON: (INAUDIBLE).
MORGAN: I'm not looking (INAUDIBLE) at people and thinking you guys are damaged. So what is the truth about being a Jackson.
M. JACKSON: Well, what is abnormal? See what is abnormal?
MORGAN: Well, that's a very good point.
T. JACKSON: You know, my theory on all of that is that I've always said that I think my father prepared us for manhood. You're only a child up to 18 but you have the rest of your life to be a man. And he prepared us to be men for that extra ...
MORGAN: Well, he's had a tough rap.
T. JACKSON: ... 40 or 50 years.
MORGAN: Yes.
T. JACKSON: You know we -- we're men. MORGAN: Has he had too hard a rap, your father? I mean I've interviewed Jermaine. I've interviewed Latoya, Janet.
T. JACKSON: I think so. I feel so, for sure. Absolutely.
MORGAN: Yes, because I can tell you now, I've done an interview with your mother, which is airing on Monday, which is an extraordinary interview.
M. JACKSON: Yes.
MORGAN: She's an extraordinary woman but of the many things she said, which I found extraordinary it was her defense of her husband, your father, which I found one of the most moving. She was like, when you guys grew up, where you grew up, you had a choice as parents. You let your kids run riot, go out on the streets and get into trouble, and end up maybe getting shot or jailed or whatever it may be, or you got a grip of your children and you disciplined them and you gave them another life.
JA. JACKSON: Gave us chores to do. Yeah.
MORGAN: How do you honestly feel? Do you feel your father went too far on occasion? Or do you now -- now that you are older and you have had kids, some of you yourselves, do you get it?
JA. JACKSON: I get it totally. When you are a kid, sometimes you feel your father has gone too far, because you are a kid. But now when you look back, he's done a wonderful job. Look where we are.
M. JACKSON: I think when you have so many kids in the family. I mean we were -- have -- what was it, 11 of us in the home in Gary, Indiana. So somewhere along the way, you have to have a grip on the family. And he saw something in -- let me rephrase that. I'm going to put it, my mom saw something in her kids that my father did not see, which was they have some type of talent.
After convincing him over a few months that their ids do have talent, and once she did that and convinced them, then it was on for us.
MORGAN: When you say that -- as you sit here now, you're all in your late 50s, 60 in one -- you are the oldest right?
JA. JACKSON: I'm the oldest.
MORGAN: You are weathering well. How old are you, 60, 61?
JA. JACKSON: Sixty one.
MORGAN: All of you. Give me all your ages, come on.
T. JACKSON: 58.
M. JACKSON: Fifty five.
JE. JACKSON: Fifty seven. MORGAN: You are all -- I've got to say, guys, you are aging well, like a fine bottle of Chattletour (ph). You get -- exactly. Exactly what I'm thinking. Again, I come back to your upbringing, because we can come to what happened next a little later. But do you think that -- when you see your father now, because he's such an extraordinary iconic figure I think in American entertainment.
He's the guy who has always had the mean tough guy reputation. Brutalizing his children, driving them to fame and fortune. The more I talk to people around your family, the less I feel that. The more I feel like he just wanted you guys to come out of life well.
JE. JACKSON: He got behind us. He supported us.
MORGAN: How do you get along with him now?
JE. JACKSON: Very well.
M. JACKSON: He kept us busy. He used to work two jobs. When he was away, we had cylinder blocks in our backyard. He made us move them -- I mean, we had hundreds of them. We had to move them from one side of the yard to the other side. That took all day.
After you get older and you realize what he was doing, just keeping you out of the streets.
MORGAN: What are the values he instilled in you, do you think?
(CROSS TALK)
JE. JACKSON: Respect other people.
M. JACKSON: Respect other people is the main one.
JE. JACKSON: Be honest and doing what you're told to do exactly how you're told to do it. And just be -- just the discipline.
MORGAN: Your mother said to me -- again, this is not airing until Monday, so it's slightly in reverse. But I think it's relevant. She said to me that she despairs in modern America in terms of parental control of children. That now you can't do anything to discipline your kids without sometimes kids ringing up and complaining about their own parents.
She said unfairly. Obviously sometimes there is fairly. And there is abuse out there and so on. But she felt strongly that there isn't enough discipline.
M. JACKSON: I don't think kids today respect adults the way they did when we were coming up as kids. I think that's important. I see kids today, they don't step aside and let their older -- elderly go in front of them or pass them, open doors for them.
They have no sense of that. That comes from in our house. Your parents instilling values and things of that nature in the kids. It's not happening, because sometimes the parents are too busy trying to be kids themselves.
MORGAN: Totally agree. Let's take a break, chaps. Let's come back and talk about -- a bit more about Michael. I want to know what plans you have for the tour, how you're going to remember him. There is a suggestion you're going to have some kind of hologram of him on stage.
OK, well, let's get to the truth behind all the rumors that are flying after the break.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(SINGING)
MORGAN: The Jacksons performing "I'll Be There" during the Motown 25th Anniversary Special, back in 1983. I am joined by the four Jackson brothers. when you see there, I mean, I've got brothers. And I think if my little brother had suddenly broken out as this huge megastar, part of me would be really irritated.
Were you? Be honest, lads.
JE. JACKSON: No.
M. JACKSON: No.
MORGAN: No little part of you going, why him? He's the little one.
JE. JACKSON: You see that? That was the platform of the Jackson 5. That's what started it all. It gave him that platform to do what he did.
MORGAN: When you saw how phenomenal Michael became as a global superstar, I mean, arguably the most famous entertainer of them all ever, and I would include Elvis and the Beatles -- when you saw that, did you worry about him, knowing that he is your little brother? Did you worry that it was too much for one person to take?
JE. JACKSON: We had worries about just -- later during the circle of people, but not so much of what he was achieving. We knew that he knew what to do. But it was just certain people around that we weren't too happy about.
MORGAN: And the circumstances leading up to his death, I know for legal reasons we can't get into too much of this. But were you guys concerned about what was happening in his life? The build up to the tour, 50 dates, huge commitment for someone like Michael, with the energy he puts into those show.
I mean, how did you feel as brothers?
JA. JACKSON: Well, I was wondering how he was going to do 50 dates, first of all. I said if he is going to do that, we can give him some help. Just call the brothers and we can --
M. JACKSON: Jackie wanted to get up on stage.
MORGAN: Did you feel he was OK and himself?
JA. JACKSON: I thought he was fine, yeah. He was fine. He was very fine.
M. JACKSON: I think you have to pace yourself. I don't know if he was, you know -- you know, being rushed to make sure that they're -- the time was coming of being rushed into things. But health wise, he was fine.
MORGAN: What do you feel, Tito, about Conrad Murray?
T. JACKSON: Well, I feel that -- like we're supposed to have forgiving hearts. Doesn't mean I have to forget.
(CROSS TALK)
MORGAN: Do you forgive him?
T. JACKSON: Sure, I forgive him. I am supposed to.
MORGAN: Do you all feel that way?
JE. JACKSON: No.
MORGAN: You don't, Jermaine?
JE. JACKSON: No, I don't feel that way at all.
MORGAN: What do you feel?
JE. JACKSON: I feel like it's just negligence and not on his -- it's on his part plus others. And we're yet to know what really, really happened. But I'm not -- I'm a forgiving person, but not when it comes to that.
MORGAN: Tito, how can you forgive him? He's your little brother.
T. JACKSON: I'm not saying that I'm not upset about what happened. But I can't go around angry and upset and want to get revenge and all these things like that. You know, things happen and I'm made to forgive. So I have to forgive.
It doesn't mean I have to forget. I haven't forgot what happened. It hurts me dearly. Were there some terrible things done? Absolutely. But I have to forgive. I can't be angry.
MORGAN: You know, that's interesting. I interviewed a number of Conrad Murray's patients who all defended him to the hilt. The impression I got, looking from the outside, was that he got offered a massive payday and it may have clouded his judgment, a judgment that until then had been very sound, and that something just went wrong with him.
And he was cutting corners and doing stuff with Michael he shouldn't have been doing in a private home. That was how it seemed to me.
JE. JACKSON: I agree with that. There is so much we can talk about when it comes to this. And --
JE. JACKSON: That's just not all of it, though. It's just the beginning.
M. JACKSON: I will say this, and I think my brothers will concur. You know, as time goes on, it's a little healing, but there's a void that will always be in your heart, because your brother is not here any more.
JA. JACKSON: Exactly.
MORGAN: But it has to be a huge void, because he was -- you know you all loved your brother. To the rest of the world, he was Michael Jackson the superstar. For you guys, you'd all been huge stars yourselves. But he was your little brother in the end. Nothing can change that. That is your feeling towards him.
JA. JACKSON: Just how you phrase that; people look at Michael as the big superstar. But to him, us he was just our brother. That's how it was, our brother.
And he is a big superstar, for years.
MORGAN: How did you feel about all the trials and tribulations he went through? The accusations, The molestation charge, all that kind of thing, did it have a very bad impact on him, do you think?
JE. JACKSON: Yes.
(CROSS TALK)
M. JACKSON: I think what we do here on planet Earth is that we are too quick to judge. I think the lord put us on the Earth to love one another, not to judge one another. That's his job to do, to judge people. When you do leave this planet, you are going to be judged on what you have done for yourself -- I mean not for yourself, what you've done for others, the things that you've done, and not for ridiculing people and things of that nature.
That's what we do. That's what we do wrong.
MORGAN: Let's take another break. Let's come back and talk about the tour. And let's talk about happier things with Michael, about the kind of music you are going to be playing. I want to know what your favorite Jackson songs were. I have a whole long list myself. But I want to know. I want to find which one each of you would choose.
JE. JACKSON: And we want to know your favorite.
MORGAN: We'll be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(SINGING)
MORGAN: The Jacksons on their Victory Tour in 1984, performing "Shake Your Body." That was the last time the brother ever performed on tour together. That is my favorite Jackson song.
M. JACKSON: "Shake Your Body"?
MORGAN: Yes. And I have shaken my body all over the world to that song, in a terrible manner, certainly not in the way you guys did. Here's what strikes me about you four: the -- even in the commercial breaks, you're just great mates, aren't you? Even now, despite everything you have been through.
I am supposed to be looking at these tormented, ruined souls, destroyed by fame, fortune. You know, you're the Jackson, apparently the most dysfunctional family out there.
(LAUGHTER)
MORGAN: Here's a secret I've unraveled from interviewing half of you: you are no more dysfunctional than most families I know. In fact, if anything, you're less dysfunctional. Do you feel -- You laugh when you hear that. But does it make you laugh when --
M. JACKSON: It makes you laugh.
MORGAN: -- assumes you're so dysfunctional. Here I see four brothers getting along great.
JA. JACKSON: They don't know us.
M. JACKSON: They don't know us.
MORGAN: Is there anything weird about you, Marlon.
JA. JACKSON: He is the funniest guy in the world right here. This guy right here.
(CROSS TALK)
MORGAN: Do you ever have arguments?
JA. JACKSON: Of course. Of course.
MORGAN: When was the last time you actually physically fought?
(CROSS TALK)
JA. JACKSON: We don't fight like that.
MORGAN: You don't do that?
(CROSS TALK)
JA. JACKSON: We might put on boxing gloves.
MORGAN: Who would win if you were to fight?
JE. JACKSON: I would.
JA. JACKSON: Me.
MORGAN: You all say you would win. OK. Let's cut to the real story, the favorite Jackson song of them all? Tito?
T. JACKSON: I like the old stuff, like "I Want You Back" and "ABC," "The Love You Save," the Motown stuff.
MORGAN: I love that. But here's the deal with this question: you can only have one song.
T. JACKSON: One song? "I Want You Back."
JA. JACKSON: "I'll Be There."
M. JACKSON: Since Jackie took one of mine, I'm going to say -- go to Jermaine.
JE. JACKSON: No, Marlon, because you're going to say the same thing I say. Go. Go.
M. JACKSON: I like "Maybe Tomorrow." .
MORGAN: Yes, great call.
JE. JACKSON: No. "Never Can Say Good-Bye."
MORGAN: Really?
JE. JACKSON: Yes.
MORGAN: But you see, there's so many to choose from, aren't there? Are we going to hear all these on the tour?
(CROSS TALK)
T. JACKSON: Yes.
MORGAN: All the hits?
T. JACKSON: Yes.
JE. JACKSON: We're very excited, Piers. We're very excited because there are so many songs. Right, guys? Taking through so many -- there's songs that -- my God, that we know, like "Looking Through The Windows," that we performed with Michael. And now we're doing it now.
MORGAN: Let me ask you about that. How are you going to commemorate Michael on tour, in terms of the actual tour, do you think?
M. JACKSON: I don't think you really can. I mean, you just have to -- Michael is the best --
JA. JACKSON: -- pictures and there will be songs.
MORGAN: The hologram thing is a rumor that's not true?
JA. JACKSON: Here's what happened. I did an interview one time.
JE. JACKSON: Jackie started this thing.
JA. JACKSON: No, I didn't.
JE. JACKSON: Yes, you did.
JA. JACKSON: Will there be a hologram of Michael. I said no, nothing like that, but maybe later on some other tours in the future, there might be something like that. The next day, it was all over the papers that Michael was going to be a hologram on tour.
MORGAN: You started all that?
JE. JACKSON: He started all that.
MORGAN: But one thing's for sure, he will be there in spirit with you guys. It will be an incredibly moving experience, I think. You have announced three shows at the moment. June 18th, Louisville, Kentucky; June 28, New York at the Apollo -- that will be amazing. I'm coming to that. You going to sort me some good seats? I want to be there for that. And 22nd of July, Los Angeles.
M. JACKSON: Can we bring you on the stage?
MORGAN: Yes.
M. JACKSON: Can we bring you on the stage for "Shake Your Body?"
MORGAN: Yes! Now you're talking. Guys, we are talking. Listen, best of luck with the tour.
M. JACKSON: Thank you.
JE. JACKSON: Thank you.
MORGAN: It is going to be very exciting. I think a lot of fans out there can't wait to see this. Great to see you all back. Great to see you looking not very dysfunctional.
JA. JACKSON: OK, thank you.
MORGAN: Send my regards to all the family. And I appreciate you coming in. Good luck, guys.
M. JACKSON: We want to tell the fans out there we love them, and thank you for supporting our family. We really appreciate it.
MORGAN: Well, they can come and see you in action, which is what they would love more than ever. Guys, thank you all very much. Jacksons, a great interview.
