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Piers Morgan Live
911 Call from Inside Georgia School; Australian Baseball Player Shot to Death; Hannah Anderson Speaks Out on NBC; Teen Commits Suicide After Photos of Alleged Rape Leak on Social Media
Aired August 21, 2013 - 21:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
PIERS MORGAN, CNN HOST: This is PIERS MORGAN LIVE. Welcome to the viewers in the United States and around the world.
Tonight, breaking news on the Georgia school gunman as we bring you quite astonishing 911 call from the woman inside the building who told the man armed with an AK-47 into surrender.
It's a heart-stopping tape and it plays out in a span of a few minutes. Her name is Antoinette Tuff. She's a bookkeeper and she's astonishingly calm. She spoke to Michael Brandon Hill and got him to give himself up.
Police say he was armed with 500 rounds of ammo and at the time there were hundreds of children inside.
Here is the 911 call she made with the gunman right next to her in full.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED 911 OPERATOR: DeKalb Police. What's the address and your emergency?
ANTOINETTE TUFF, SCHOOL BOOKKEEPER: Yes, ma'am, I'm on 2nd Avenue in the school and the gentleman said tell them to hold down the police officers are coming, he's going to start shooting. So tell them to back off.
UNIDENTIFIED 911 OPERATOR: OK. One moment.
TUFF: Do not let anybody in the building including no police. Do not let anybody in the building including the police.
UNIDENTIFIED 911 OPERATOR: OK. Stay on the line with me, ma'am. Where are you?
TUFF: I'm in the front office. He just went outside and started shooting. Can I run?
UNIDENTIFIED 911 OPERATOR: Where -- can you get somewhere safe?
TUFF: Yes, I got to go. No, he was going to see me running. He's coming back. Oh, hold on.
UNIDENTIFIED 911 OPERATOR: Put the phone down.
TUFF: Bye. OK. She said that she's getting the policeman to tell them to back off for you. OK?
MICHAEL BRANDON HILL, SUSPECT: Tell them to stop all movement.
TUFF: OK. OK. Stop all movement, ma'am, on the ground. Stop all movement on the ground. If it's not an emergency, please do not use the radio. If it's not an emergency, do not use the radio.
UNIDENTIFIED 911 OPERATOR: Are you talking to the shooter?
TUFF: That's what he's telling me to tell them on the radio.
UNIDENTIFIED 911 OPERATOR: OK.
TUFF: Now what did you want me to tell her, sir? OK. He told me put you on hold and call the news, ma'am.
UNIDENTIFIED 911 OPERATOR: OK.
TUFF: What you want -- you want me -- I'm trying to find the number for Channel 2. OK. You want me to tell them to -- hello?
UNIDENTIFIED 911 OPERATOR: Yes, ma'am. Yes, ma'am.
TUFF: Police?
UNIDENTIFIED 911 OPERATOR: Yes, ma'am.
TUFF: He said tell them to back up right now.
UNIDENTIFIED 911 OPERATOR: OK.
TUFF: OK. Hold on.
UNIDENTIFIED 911 OPERATOR: OK. Hello? Ma'am?
TUFF: OK. He said -- he said to tell them to back off. He doesn't want the kids, he wants the police, so back off and -- and what else, sir? He said, he don't care if he die, he don't have nothing to live for, and he said he's not mentally stable.
UNIDENTIFIED 911 OPERATOR: OK. Stay on the line with me. OK? Put the phone down if you have to but don't put it on hold so I can't hear.
TUFF: OK.
UNIDENTIFIED 911 OPERATOR: Can you tell me where you are?
TUFF: In the front office with him.
UNIDENTIFIED 911 OPERATOR: OK.
TUFF: He said -- he said send in one of your radios with an unarmed officer.
UNIDENTIFIED 911 OPERATOR: OK.
TUFF: She said OK, she's getting ready to tell them, or somewhere he can talk to the police. He said, but if they come armed, he's going to start shooting again.
UNIDENTIFIED 911 OPERATOR: OK.
TUFF: Only one officer.
UNIDENTIFIED 911 OPERATOR: OK.
TUFF: He said, if you have to go ahead and evacuate them homes right there in the front of the building.
UNIDENTIFIED 911 OPERATOR: OK. OK. Ask him, is he willing to give his name?
TUFF: She said, are you willing to give your name? He said no.
UNIDENTIFIED 911 OPERATOR: OK.
TUFF: He said no, he knows that if he gives his name, he's going away for a long time, and he said he knows he's going away for a long time. He's on probation. Tell them to stand down now. Tell them to stand down now he said.
UNIDENTIFIED 911 OPERATOR: OK. Tell him I'm going to give them the instructions.
TUFF: She said she's giving the instructions. He said that he should just shoot himself. He said -- he said call the probation office in DeKalb County and let them know what is going on.
UNIDENTIFIED 911 OPERATOR: OK. Who are we asking for?
TUFF: She said, who is she asking for? He said he think it's Officer Scott.
UNIDENTIFIED 911 OPERATOR: OK. OK.
TUFF: You want me to let them -- let her get by?
UNIDENTIFIED 911 OPERATOR: What's your emergency?
TUFF: Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED 911 OPERATOR: Hello?
TUFF: Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED 911 OPERATOR: Yes, I'm here.
TUFF: You want me to tell her to let -- let her come, sir? She sounds like she loves you a lot. UNIDENTIFIED 911 OPERATOR: You on the phone with a relative?
TUFF: Yes. Yes. What you say, sir? He said he should have just went to the mental hospital instead of doing this because he's not on his medication.
UNIDENTIFIED 911 OPERATOR: OK.
TUFF: Well, do you want me -- I can help you. Want me -- do you want to talk to them? Want me to talk to them and try -- OK. Well, let me talk to them and let's see if we can work it out so that you don't have to go away with them for a long time.
No, it does matter. I can let them know that you have not tried to harm me or do anything with me or anything. That you want -- but that doesn't make any difference. You didn't hit anybody. So -- OK.
Let me ask you this, ma'am. He didn't hit anybody, he just shot outside the door. If I walk out there with him -- if I walk out there with him so they won't shoot him or anything like that. He wants to give himself up. Is that OK? They won't shoot him?
UNIDENTIFIED 911 OPERATOR: Yes, ma'am.
TUFF: And he said he just want to go to the hospital.
UNIDENTIFIED 911 OPERATOR: OK.
TUFF: She said --
UNIDENTIFIED 911 OPERATOR: Just hold on one moment. OK?
TUFF: OK. She said hold on and we -- and she's going to talk to the police officer and I'll go out there with you.
Well, don't feel bad, baby. My husband just left me after 33 years. But -- yes, you do. I mean, I'm sitting here with you and talking -- just talking to you about it. I got a son that's multiple disabled.
Can I speak to her? Let me talk -- let me talk to her and let her know that I'm going to go with you. You want me to talk to her? No, you didn't, baby. It's all going to be well. And they just going to talk to the police. OK. OK. Hold on. Hold on a second, OK?
UNIDENTIFIED 911 OPERATOR: Uh-huh, don't hang up the phone.
TUFF: OK. Hold on. He wants me to go over to the intercom so hold the phone for me, OK?
UNIDENTIFIED 911 OPERATOR: OK.
TUFF: OK. Wait a minute. So can you talk to the police and let them know that I'm going to walk out there with him and he wants to give himself up?
UNIDENTIFIED 911 OPERATOR: OK. I am. Let me get an OK from them, OK?
TUFF: OK. And what -- and you let me know what we need to do? He wants me to get on the intercom and let everybody know that he's sorry, OK?
UNIDENTIFIED 911 OPERATOR: OK.
TUFF: OK. Hold on. Ma'am?
UNIDENTIFIED 911 OPERATOR: Yes, ma'am.
TUFF: OK. He's going to come out now but -- he wants to know what do you want him to do with the gun.
UNIDENTIFIED 911 OPERATOR: OK.
TUFF: Or do you want to send a police officer in? He said, he'll be on the ground with his hands behind the back and I'll take the gun from him and put it over here on the other side by me.
UNIDENTIFIED 911 OPERATOR: OK. One moment.
TUFF: OK. Put -- yes, put all that over here so that way they won't see it. OK? Come over here and put it over here on this -- OK. Put it all up there. OK.
UNIDENTIFIED 911 OPERATOR: He's put the weapons down?
TUFF: Yes. So hold on before you come. He's putting everything down.
UNIDENTIFIED 911 OPERATOR: OK.
TUFF: So he's going to get on the floor so tell them to hold on a minute. So let him get everything together. He's getting it all together. OK. Tell me when you ready and I'll tell them to come on in. OK. He wants to drink his bottle of water so let him drink it. Let him get it together. He's -- OK.
UNIDENTIFIED 911 OPERATOR: OK.
TUFF: Did you want me to call somebody and talk to somebody for you? OK. We not going to hate you, baby. It's a good thing that you're giving up. So we're not going to hate you. OK.
UNIDENTIFIED 911 OPERATOR: Ma'am, you're doing a great job.
TUFF: So let's do it before the helicopters and stuff like that come. So --
HILL: I already hear them.
TUFF: They're here? You hear them? OK. So you want to go ahead and want me to tell them to come on in now? OK. He's getting everything out of his pockets now.
UNIDENTIFIED 911 OPERATOR: OK.
TUFF: OK. He said the gun may come back and say it's stolen but it's not. He knows the whole story about the gun and he let you all know that.
UNIDENTIFIED 911 OPERATOR: OK.
TUFF: Do you all want him to take his belt off?
UNIDENTIFIED 911 OPERATOR: That's fine, just take all his weapons off.
TUFF: OK. She said that's fine, take all your weapons off. Your -- he said he don't have no more weapons.
UNIDENTIFIED 911 OPERATOR: OK.
TUFF: OK. So you -- OK, he's on the ground now with his hands behind the back. Tell the officers don't come in with any gun -- don't come on shooting or anything, so they can come on in and I'll buzz them in.
UNIDENTIFIED 911 OPERATOR: OK.
TUFF: So hold on. Just sit right there, I'm going to buzz them in, OK, so you know when they coming. OK? OK. So just stay there calm. Don't worry about it. I'm going to sit right here so they'll see that you trying not to harm me. OK? OK.
UNIDENTIFIED 911 OPERATOR: OK.
TUFF: It's going to be all right, sweetie. I just want you to know that I love you, OK? And I'm proud of you. That's a good thing that you're just giving up and don't worry about it. We all go through something in life. No, you don't want that. No, you don't want that. You going to be OK. You're going to be OK.
I thought the same thing, you know, I tried to commit suicide last year after my husband left me? But look at me now. I'm still working and everything is OK.
Your name is Michael what? Michael Hill? When the weather -- in the harbor? The people came in the harbor and planted a gun? Oh, the drum from in the harbor? Oh, OK. So you came with the kids that play the drums for in the harbor? Oh, for real? So you was actually in there doing all of that with them? Oh, how awesome.
So that means -- I seen -- so that means I seen you before then. Oh, OK. You all play them drums and stuff real good. OK. He said that they can come on in now. He needs to go to the hospital.
UNIDENTIFIED 911 OPERATOR: OK.
TUFF: And he doesn't have any weapons on him or anything like that. He's laying on the floor and he doesn't have any weapons. He's got everything out of his pocket. There is no -- the only thing he has on is his belt. Everything is out of his pockets, everything sitting here on the corner. So all we need to do is they can just come in. I'm going to buzz them in so he knows that they are here and everything. And they can come in and get him, and take him to the hospital.
UNIDENTIFIED 911 OPERATOR: OK. One moment.
TUFF: OK. Yes, she says she's going to let them know. She's talking to them now. To let know to come on in and to take you to the hospital. OK? No, you stay right there. You fine.
He said, do you want him to go out there with his hands up or you want him to --
(CROSSTALK)
UNIDENTIFIED 911 OPERATOR: Stay right where he is.
TUFF: OK. She said stay right there where you are. Get -- he wants to know, can he get some of his water right quick?
Yes, Michael. She said, Michael Hill, right? OK. Guess what, Michael, my last name is Hill, too. You know, my mom was a Hill.
He said, what are you all waiting for? What's taking them so long to come on?
UNIDENTIFIED 911 OPERATOR: OK. One moment.
TUFF: She said, she's getting to them now. They're coming. They're coming. So just hold on, Michael. Go ahead and lay down. Go ahead and lay down. Said don't put your phone -- OK. You just got your phone? OK. That's fine. Tell them to come on. Come on. OK. He just got his phone. That's all he got is his phone.
(CROSSTALK)
TUFF: It's just him.
(CROSSTALK)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We got him. We got him.
TUFF: OK. It's just him.
(CROSSTALK)
UNIDENTIFIED 911 OPERATOR: Hello?
TUFF: Yes. Let me tell you something, baby, nothing so scary in my life.
UNIDENTIFIED 911 OPERATOR: Me, either. But you did great.
TUFF: Oh, Jesus.
UNIDENTIFIED 911 OPERATOR: You did great. TUFF: Oh, god.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MORGAN: What an extraordinary heroic woman Antoinette Tuff was on that day.
Joining me now from Decatur is CNN national correspondent, Martin Savidge.
Martin, that really was quite remarkable to listen to, isn't it?
MARTIN SAVIDGE, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Absolutely, I mean, that woman is a one-person crisis negotiating team and what is remarkable is that -- it's almost as if that was the role she was born to play on that particular day.
I'd love to be able to ramble off her life story. She really is not that well-known. I can guarantee you after tonight she will become well-known for what she did. She not only saved the lives of hundreds of children, the staff, teachers, but also dozens of police officers gathered outside. Incredible.
MORGAN: And she's just a bookkeeper, nothing fancier than that at the school, she's not a head mistress, not a senior teacher, just a bookkeeper who happened to be there when this guy walks in. He's 20 years old, clearly unstable, has an AK-47.
Her poise, her calm, her quick-thinking and empathy that she showed him, which clearly diffused all the tension, really astounding.
SAVIDGE: Yes, it is. I mean, she tells some heart-felt, incredibly emotional revelations of her own personal life to everyone who's listening but it's only key to that one individual, and it clearly made all the difference.
MORGAN: Quite remarkable. Martin, stay with me.
When we come back we'll also bring in forensic psychologist, Dr. Xavier Amador, on this extraordinary 911 call and that heroine, Antoinette Tuff.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Get on the ground. Do not move. Get on the ground.
TUFF: It's just him.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We got him. We got him.
TUFF: OK. It's just him.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Keep going. TUFF: Uh-huh. Hello?
UNIDENTIFIED 911 OPERATOR: Yes.
TUFF: I'm going to tell you something, baby, nothing so scary things in my life.
UNIDENTIFIED 911 OPERATOR: Me, either. But you did great.
TUFF: Oh, Jesus.
UNIDENTIFIED 911 OPERATOR: You did great.
TUFF: Oh, God.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MORGAN: Antoinette Tuff, my new hero, I'm sure many others, too. The final seconds of the 911 call where this extraordinary bookkeeper gets a school gunman to surrender.
Back with me now, CNN national correspondent, Martin Savidge, and joining me via Skype, is Dr. Xavier Amador, forensic psychologist and president of the LEAP Company.
Welcome to you, Dr. Amador. We've spoken many times but this really was remarkable courage but also really good thinking by Antoinette Tuff to just get inside this potential mass shooter's head.
XAVIER AMADOR, PRESIDENT, THE LEAP COMPANY: Well, she did. And what she did, you know, we -- at our institute we train hostage negotiators and police officers who are responding to mentally ill people. She -- what she actually did is connected on a very human level. She didn't get inside his brain and do any kind of psychological intervention. She connected with him as a human being.
She spoke to his sanity and she spoke to his humanity. And she listened to what he was most worried about, and that's what she responded to. And she was remarkable in how she in a very common sense way engaged with this man as a human being and that made all the difference.
MORGAN: Martin Savidge, what else do we know about her, Antoinette? Obviously, as you said, she's about to become a huge national figure because of this heroic act, but she gave so much information there about her life. Do we know anything else about her from the school or from anybody else?
SAVIDGE: No, school officials have not revealed a great deal about her. In fact, initially they weren't even giving out her name. They credited a number of people including the authorities and other staff members for assisting in the situation. But, you know, what we do know is of course, she's an older woman. She's been through a lot in life. Married for decades and then she says her husband left her. She also says that she contemplated her own suicide. She's making these personal confessions. She describes a son who has his own physical difficulties. So, you know, she is pouring her heart out to a young man who has got an AK-47 on him and armed with hundreds of rounds. So it's amazing how she thinks it through, calms everyone down. Not just the gunman but at one point she's actually calming the authorities outside after the gunshots have been fired and methodically works it through, turning this young man to eventually giving himself up.
MORGAN: We're getting an amazing reaction on Twitter to this 911 call. And send me your thoughts @piersmorgan. And we'll try and read some of them out because everyone is talking about this, Dr. Amador, because it really did almost certainly thwart a potential mass shooting again.
The parallels here strikes me with Adam Lanza and Sandy Hook cannot be overlooked. Here's somebody who's 20 years old, Michael Brandon Hill, not far from the age of Adam Lanza. He's another young white man. We see so many of these mass shootings committed by younger white males.
His brother says he's bipolar and he hadn't taken his meds. Again links there to some of the mental health issues we believe Adam Lanza had, but more importantly, he had this access to this terrible assault weapon, the AK-47 with 500 rounds of ammunition.
How many more times is this kind of thing going to happen before somebody somewhere takes action to try and stop at least some of it?
AMADOR: Well, you know, unfortunately, Piers, we've had this conversation many times over the last year, and the answer is, it's going to be too many times. What -- though, I really would like to focus on here is the fact that this woman, I don't think she thought anything through. She intuitively understood this man's humanity and his mental illness. And she connected with him by disclosing things about herself, by appealing to the best parts of him.
By not looking at the AK-47. Instead looking into this man's experience and what he wanted. He was afraid of being put away forever so she said well, let's work on that. You didn't shoot anybody. You didn't do anything that's going to probably -- and she asked the dispatcher, isn't that right? So she's -- she goes into a helping mode.
Going back to mental illness and gun control, I'm not a gun control expert but I can tell you as a mental health expert, there is an increase in violence in people who have untreated serious psychotic illnesses like bipolar and schizophrenia and so on.
So, you know, we continue to have to take that very seriously. But again, I want to come back to what's really a wonderful ending and it speaks to what's happening all over this country and police departments. Police departments are learning to do what Miss Tuff did intuitively as a commonsense human being with a big heart.
MORGAN: Absolutely. AMADOR: What they're learning to do is to lead with their ear and listen and connect with the person, and get them to surrender. And we don't have to have these shootings that end in violence. I said this many times in your program. If we have the right kind of training.
She intuitively -- I know all I need to know about Miss Tuff. She's got a big heart. What did she say? "I love you" and "I'm proud of you."
MORGAN: Yes. Absolutely remarkable woman.
Martin Savidge, thank you very much. And also Dr. Amador, as always for your views of that.
And again, Antoinette Tuff, what a woman, saving potentially hundreds of young children's lives with that remarkable performance. Thank you, both.
Coming next, I'll talk to a man who has a lot to say about gun violence, New York Police Commissioner Ray Kelly.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SARAH HARPER, GIRLFRIEND OF CHRISTOPHER LANE: It's the hardest thing one could ever imagine happening and I think there's still a lot of shock and disbelief, and a lot of anger and sadness. It's just every emotion flooded in.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MORGAN: The poor girlfriend of Christopher Lane, the young man from Australia murdered in Oklahoma because the alleged killers were bored.
This horrific crime is shocking the world. As many are talking about the gun violence in America, something my next guest knows a lot about, perhaps more than most actually in America right now, New York Police Commissioner Ray Kelly who joins me.
Commissioner Kelly, welcome to you and congratulations, first of all, on the largest gun bust in New York City's history. 254 illegal guns that you seized this week. I want to come to that a bit later.
I want to start with these two appalling gun incidents in America. The first, this young Australian student over here in America to play baseball who was just apparently randomly targeted by bored teenagers in Oklahoma and gunned down to his death.
What is your reaction to that story?
RAY KELLY, NEW YORK POLICE COMMISSIONER: Well, it's horrific. No question about it. And I think it just underscores the fact that there is way too many guns abroad in America. We have as many as 300 million guns in this country, and it's just an incredible number. And unfortunately, you're going to see events like this take place when you have that number of weapons. We think that we're in need of sensible gun laws, federal laws, the case that you mentioned in New York. I'm never going to talk about it but it cries out for federal gun trafficking laws. We simply don't have that. It also cries out for background, universal background checks on people who want to get guns. I mean this is commonsense but it doesn't look like either of these things are going to happen in the near term.
MORGAN: This other incident was in Decatur, this Georgia school, where 28-year-old suspect Michael Brandon Hill, he apparently had 500 rounds of ammunition and an AK-47. His brother says he's bipolar. He'd had previous dealings with authorities who thought he was a risk.
Again, an accident just waiting to boil over, a bit like Adam Lanza before Sandy Hook.
How do you tackle this stream of disenfranchised, disaffected, perhaps deranged young -- they're usually white males who commit these mass shootings or have the intent to commit them?
KELLY: It's very, very difficult to do it. We need databases with more reliable current information about the individual's mental state. This person, we're not certain if it was his gun or a gun from an acquaintance. So if that was the case, it would be even more difficult to check. But again, it just goes back to the idea that we have way too many guns in America.
MORGAN: Yesterday I interviewed a top Australian politician, he'd been the deputy prime minister under John Howard back in the '90s. And after a huge atrocity there in the mid-'90s, they brought in very stringent gun control. And as he said, taking guns off the streets, banning certain types of assault weapons, has had a materially beneficial effect to reducing gun crime.
But trying to win that argument in America is almost impossible at the moment.
Why is that?
KELLY: Well, I think there is a lot of polarization here. People in big cities, certainly New York being the biggest, have perhaps a different idea of guns and gun control, the need for gun control. People in other parts of the country, more rural parts of America -- I mean, I think there is a legitimate debate in some of these areas.
But I can tell you that in New York City and other cities in America, we are being plagued with the proliferation of guns.
MORGAN: You seized 254 illegal guns, as I said, a lot of it through identifying and investigating social media postings, people brazenly putting up pictures on YouTube and Facebook and Twitter and so on.
Is that a new prong in your attack?
KELLY: Sure, we have to keep up with the times and clearly social media is being used to change information, actually to show pictures of guns that were for sale. There was a lot of law enforcement agencies involved in this case and I particularly want to thank the Sanford, North Carolina, police and the Rock Hill, South Carolina, police for their assistance in this investigation.
As you said, this is the largest seizure we've had. It was done through the really outstanding work of one undercover police officer, who was able to make all of these purchases from two independent networks.
So it sort of underscores the flaw of what we call the Iron Pipeline, up I-95 from states in the South into New York City. Ninety percent of the guns that we confiscate on the streets of New York are coming from out of state and this is obviously a classic example of that.
MORGAN: The other example is in Chicago, which is often quoted as a disaster when it comes to guns, despite having reasonably tough gun control -- and I use that phrase advisedly.
But if you study the guns seized by police in Chicago, I think well over 50 percent of those come from out of Chicago. And it seems to me that no one is also debating at the moment the possibility of just having federal gun control laws.
Wouldn't that make life easier for everyone in your kind of position as city police chief, just have the same rule in every state relating to guns?
KELLY: Absolutely. Of course it would. But as I say, I think certainly in the near term, that's unlikely. So in this case here we have guns coming through several states from North Carolina and South Carolina. Yet these individuals are being prosecuted under state conspiracy laws, state gun possession laws and it makes the prosecution itself much more challenging.
MORGAN: How is it that so many people in America do not share your view of the danger of guns?
What is it about the gun itself, the culture of gun ownership, perhaps, which makes it so difficult to have this kind of sensible view of guns around the nation?
KELLY: Well I think a lot of people simply aren't affected by guns. People in urban areas are and quite frankly in communities of color for the most part. In New York City, 97 percent of the people shot in our city are either black or Latino. It's concentrated in our major cities.
So if you don't live in a major city, if you don't live in one of those neighborhoods, it's something you might read about in the newspaper but you're not personally affected by it.
We're saving lives in New York City. We're doing it proactively but, obviously, not everybody is happy with some of the tactics and strategies. MORGAN: I mean, you touched there on stop-and-frisk, a very contentious issue. Do you think stop-and-frisk is deliberate racial profiling but for a purpose that is, in your eyes, worth doing and successful?
KELLY: No, it's certainly not racial profiling. It's simply something that we reject. We're appealing the judge's decision. It was made on what I would submit is very scant evidence; the judge herself found 10 of the 19 stops that were in question in this case, acceptable as far as the constitutionality is concerned, we think the standard that was used in this case is flawed.
We certainly don't accept the premise that racial profiling is going on in New York City. Again, when you look at the universe of people who are being shot and killed in New York and you look at the people who are being arrested for it, and the criteria that we submit is the appropriate one to use and that is the descriptions of the victims of violent crimes, the description of the perpetrators, then our stops comport with those descriptions.
MORGAN: Commissioner Ray Kelly, thank you, as always, for joining me. Much appreciated.
KELLY: Thank you, Piers.
MORGAN: Coming next, an extraordinary twist in the Hannah Anderson abduction case. James DiMaggio's family wants DNA samples from the Anderson family. We'll tell you why after the break.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
HANNAH ANDERSON, KIDNAPPING SURVIVOR: In the beginning I was a victim, but now knowing everyone out there is helping me, I consider myself a survivor instead. My mom raised me to be strong.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MORGAN: Hannah Anderson speaking out on NBC for the first time since her abduction. In the days since her kidnapper, James DiMaggio, was shot dead by the FBI, new evidence is making the motivation for his crimes unclear.
Here to give us perhaps a clearer picture of James DiMaggio is his friend, Andrew Spanswick, who's now acting as the family's spokesman.
Welcome back to you, Andrew. Very complicated developments in this story, which I want to cut straight to right now with you.
There is a request from James DiMaggio's only surviving sibling, Laura, for DNA from the Anderson family.
Why is this?
ANDREW SPANSWICK, DIMAGGIO FAMILY FRIEND: It's a story that's largely been blown up in the media and not exactly accurate.
There is a leak through social media that Laura DiMaggio picked up on that there was a possibility that either Ethan or Hannah had been the -- or may have been the children of James DiMaggio, but it's not something that she actively believes. She already has DNA samples and has not asked the Anderson family at all for DNA samples.
In fact, they spoke on Friday night, Brett (ph) and Laura, and it was very clear that they both had misgivings about the whole tragedy. What we're really dealing with here is trying to get answers. There is -- you know, there is a difference between trying to explain a tragedy and condemn a tragedy.
Certainly, we condemn James for the actions that he took. This has been a horrible tragedy for everyone. There's a lot of victims involved. Laura, as well, has been a victim. She can't leave her house. She's afraid to start her car. She's being hounded by the media. This is going on and on and on, and we're just looking at this issue of mental health.
On the side of Laura's family, the mother had -- the mother's mother tried to commit suicide. The mother tried to commit suicide. The father committed suicide. This country is just largely ignoring the issues of mental health. We see these things where people -- the first story you had is a perfect example, where somebody with mental health issues ends up going into a school because that's the only place they think now that they can get any attention is by doing --
(CROSSTALK)
MORGAN: Let me, if I can jump in, Andrew.
SPANSWICK: Sure.
MORGAN: Yes, I totally agree with everything you're saying. I just wanted to try and clarify then where we are with this development, because from what I understand, rumors were circulating amongst neighbors that there may have been some relationship, either in the past or ongoing, between Hannah Anderson's mother, Christina, who obviously was killed, and James DiMaggio. Is that, as far as you know, true?
SPANSWICK: There is a lot of speculation. As I said, Laura DiMaggio has been picking up on any clue she can get. The sad fact of the matter is that both the San Diego police and the FBI have not spoken to Laura since this tragedy began.
So she's left with no clues, nor has any evidence been returned to her, the letters from Hannah supposedly to Jim, the condoms that were taken; the gun has not appeared from the FBI. So she's largely left with just speculating --
MORGAN: But was she -- but, Andrew, was she aware, Laura, of any relationship between Christina Anderson and Jim DiMaggio?
SPANSWICK: We know that the relationship was that Jim played a very key role in the family and was seen as an uncle, obviously. But there is no direct evidence that he had a relationship with the mother now.
MORGAN: Part of these rumors are because James DiMaggio changed his life insurance policy in 2011, leaving his $112,000 dowry to Hannah's paternal grandmother and removing Laura, his sister, as the beneficiary. And apparently the explanation was that he believed that Hannah's grandmother would use that money most wisely to take care of the two children.
But, again, a strange thing to do for just a family friend, to choose these children's grandmother as the beneficiary of your life insurance.
SPANSWICK: It certainly adds to the speculation. But as I'm saying, it's just speculation. At this point we're really looking for answers. Laura said to Brett (ph) when she spoke to him on Friday that she, you know, had no intention of trying to get the money. She wants the money to go to the family. Laura has not asked for a penny from anyone in this tragedy.
The media is making her out to be some sort of money-grubbing, you know, person who's exploiting the media in this situation.
The sad thing is that here is a person who comes from a long history of mental illness along with James, her brother, and nobody is talking about the two homicides that have occurred, why they have occurred, what the real motivation was for the killing --
MORGAN: It's horrendous --
SPANSWICK: -- mental health treatment.
MORGAN: Yes. It's a horrible situation for her, clearly, and I think these rumors don't help anybody and we hope you can clarify everything sooner rather than later.
Just for the record, the Anderson family released this statement, saying Brett and Tina Anderson -- this is Christina -- did not meet Mr. DiMaggio until the sixth month of Tina's pregnancy with Hannah. Brett Anderson's DNA was used to identify the body of his dead son, Ethan Anderson.
Andrew Spanswick, thank you very much indeed for joining me again.
SPANSWICK: Yes, thank you, Piers.
MORGAN: Next, driven to suicide. Audrie Pott took her own life after discovering cell phone photographs of her taken after an alleged sexual assault were circulating among her classmates. Her parents join me live. That's coming next.
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MORGAN: This next story is a tragedy that's becoming all too familiar. Fifteen-year-old Audrie Pott was at a house party and drinking. She passed out and was allegedly raped by three of her classmates. Someone took a picture, had texted it to their friends and a week later Audrie committed suicide.
The Pott family joins me tonight, Audrie's father, Lawrence, stepmother, Lisa, and her mother, Sheila, along with their attorney, Bob Allard.
Welcome to all of you. And to all of you in the family, my most sincere condolences for this absolutely appalling tragedy that's befallen you and I do appreciate you having the courage to come and talk about this tonight.
Let me start with you, Lawrence, if I may.
For those who don't know what happened to your daughter, describe to me the circumstances that led to her death.
LAWRENCE POTT, AUDRIE'S FATHER: Well, she was attending a party at her friend's house, and there was some drinking going on. Audrie had too much to drink, and she passed out. She passed out in a room, and we know that she was later on that evening sexually assaulted and there were several chances for young men and young women to be heroes, to step up, to do the right thing.
Nobody did. It was a terrible, terrible situation. Audrie woke up the next morning. She had no idea what had happened that night. She found writing all over her body, and she started to ask questions and started to piece together what had happened.
MORGAN: And Sheila, she clearly was then exposed to the embarrassment, the ridicule, the humiliation, social network chatter about all this and eventually she just felt so distraught she took her life.
How did that make you feel, the collective pressure that she was clearly being put under?
SHEILA POTT, AUDRIE'S MOTHER: Well, I can tell you that I had a very close relationship with my daughter. We had long talks frequently. So it wasn't until after her memorial service that we found out that she was sexually assaulted, and the subsequent events that led to her taking her own life.
So as every parent is going to feel, they're going to look back at every minute leading up to that and wonder what went wrong?
And it wasn't until we uncovered some Facebook messages that were saved -- because her phone was destroyed at the party -- that we realized what had happened and how she felt, and how that had a direct correlation as to why she took her life. And she didn't confide in us so that we could take steps to intervene.
MORGAN: And Lisa, you were Audrie's stepmother. She was being bullied throughout this whole process, wasn't she? What is the lesson, the warning do you think to other parents that comes out of this awful tragedy?
LISA POTT, AUDRIE'S STEPMOTHER: If anything, I think you need to keep tabs on your children's activity on the Internet. Certainly if perhaps if we would have checked before we would have known about this.
There was such a short time between when the crime was committed to when Audrie took her life, and there was no indication, no reason for us to check because Audrie didn't tell us anything. So it's very difficult.
MORGAN: Bob Allard, in terms of the law surrounding all this, what are the issues that have been raised and does the law do enough do you think in situations like this?
BOB ALLARD, POTT FAMILY ATTORNEY: Well, civilly we intend to prove that the actions of these young men and young woman was a main factor why Audrie did what she did, and civilly, we intend to prove that those actions did lead to her death. Criminally, there are some changes we would like to see made, at least out here in California for starters.
Principals and school executives cannot expel these young men and this young woman because these activities occurred off campus, which is a silly distinction. Expulsion occurs only when there's on-campus behavior.
Also, for whatever reason we don't know the fact that Audrie was unconscious makes the laws lighter. That obviously should change, as well. And finally, as are the laws in Steubenville, Ohio, the young men were tried as adults in that case, because rightfully it was an adult crime.
Out here in California, these young men are afforded protection, which we strongly disagree with. We've effectively been silenced in many ways, and these young men have the protection of not only keeping this quiet, but they're receiving very light sentences in our opinion.
MORGAN: Well, I hope that you get justice for Audrie. She was clearly a very bright and beautiful young woman whose life was sadly taken in the most cruel way imaginable. My heart goes out to all of you. Thank you to Lawrence, to Lisa, to Sheila, and to you, Bob. I really do appreciate you talking tonight.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Thank you, Piers.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Thank you.
MORGAN: And we'll be right back.
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MORGAN: That's all for us tonight. Let's all give a huge thanks to that hero bookkeeper in Georgia, Antoinette Tuff. Remember that name. She calmly and coolly talked a school gunman into surrendering, saving God knows how many lives. She may not consider herself a hero, but she is to me. And I hope that she is to you, too.
That's all for us tonight. The Jake Tapper special, "UNLIKELY HERO," starts right now.
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