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Piers Morgan Live
Interview with Reince Priebus; Interview with Rep. Pallone, Rep. Blackburn; Interview with 'Dirty Jobs' Host Mike Rowe; Interview with Arsenio Hall
Aired October 30, 2013 - 21:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
PIERS MORGAN, CNN ANCHOR: This is PIERS MORGAN LIVE. Welcome to our viewers in the United States and around the world. Tonight, taking the blame for the Obamacare web site fiasco. First, Secretary Sebelius.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
KATHLEEN SEBELIUS, HHS SECRETARY: Let me say directly to these Americans, you deserve better. I apologize.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MORGAN: Then her boss.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
OBAMA: There is no excuse for it. And I take full responsibility for making sure it gets fixed ASAP.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MORGAN: And Joe Biden couldn't even get on it.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Have you tried to get online yourself?
VICE PRESIDENT JOE BIDEN: Well, actually the president tried to get online and my daughter tried to get online. I did not, because it was clear that I wasn't getting online.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MORGAN: And hardly surprising given that right now, breaking news, there it is live, the HealthCare.gov website is down again. What an absolute fiasco. When it's up, will it be the cure that we're hoping for? I talked to RNC Chairman Reince Priebus about how his party handled ObamaCare and whether their strategy is doing too much to divide the country.
Plus, "Dirty Jobs" host Mike Rowe in hot water. What he tells Glenn Beck about college education.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MIKE ROWE, DIRTY JOBS' HOST: To start your life, 150 grand in a hole, 80 grand in the hole. With your Art History major, or your PolySci or your MidEastern studies and not be able to find work in that -- that's why you got $1 trillion in debt.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MORGAN: And for that apparently, he's supposed to be the mad one. Anyway, that's just for starters. Tonight, Mike sets the record straight live on this very show. Also the return of the great Arsenio Hall one of my favorite guests, the late -- my man is back. There he is wearing one of the coolest hats I think I've ever seen in my entire life.
Wait a minute, he (inaudible), wait, wait, and my grapes. We'll begin now with our big story. The "I'm sorry" talk of the ObamaCare fiasco, the President apologize so did Vice President Biden and Secretary Sebelius. I bet everyone was apologizing, but while Secretary Sebelius was apologizing, she was talking about the rollout disaster of course, the health care website she was apologizing about was crashing. It was almost comical.
At the same time, the President again and Republicans who are trying to destroy his law.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BARRACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA: Health care is complicated and it's very personal and it's easy to scare folks. And it's no surprise that some of this same folks trying to scare people now are the same folks who've been trying to sink the Affordable Care Act from the beginning.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MORGAN: Joining me now is Reince Priebus, he's the Chairman of the Republican National Committee. So, Reince, you guys have gone from being the villains of the nation two weeks ago to suddenly the heroes. How on earth has this happened?
REINCE PRIEBUS, CHAIRMAN, REPUBLICAN NATIONAL COMMITTEE: Well, it's not for -- it's not a good result as far as I think something very bad for the American people, Piers. And so look, the problem is not just the website, you know, that's a mess, some people can't sign up but now we're getting into the really some bad things that are affecting people's lives.
And, you know, when millions of people are being asked to sign on to a system that they can't sign on to and then they're also getting notices by the hundreds of thousands that their health care is being dropped. And then their finding out that they're going to pay more money. You know, it's a lot of broken promises from the President and it's terrible for the American people. It's just the -- I think it's a crisis that we have to address immediately.
MORGAN: Does the shambles of what is going on in any way justify shutting down the government?
PRIEBUS: You know, I think as time goes by, I think more and more people are going to see that fighting over the implementation of a law that would be terrible for the American people is worth it and so this is going to require legislative action and you're going to see Democrats coming to the table because they're going to be shamed into admitting that the President lied and that it's a law that would be a disaster for the American people and a lot of these Democrats want to try to get reelected so they're going to come back to the table.
MORGAN: Did the President, when he kept reassuring everybody and all the videos that we've seen replayed again and again and again from numerous events, could've started a union when he promised people, "If you like your insurance, you like your doctor you can keep both." Did he tell the American people repeatedly a bare faced lie in your eyes?
PRIEBUS: Well, I mean either he lied to the American people or is that he's so grossly negligent in doing his job that it's akin to a lie, Piers. I mean, you know, there's a point in law where if you don't intentionally lie but you're so grossly negligent, it's about the same thing. Here's the problem, they knew in the fine print in this law -- someone knew that if you're insurance coverage changed between 2009 and where we sit today in 2013, you would be dropped.
In other words, that grandfather clause that the President kept referring to when he said, "If you like your insurance, you're going to be able to keep your insurance. If you like your doctor, you're going to be able to keep your doctor." The problem is either he knew that that was a lie or he is such a bystander President and so aloof to the detail that he shouldn't be aware of that -- look his confidence has called in the question here on this law in whether it be the NSA not knowing what's going on there, not knowing what's going on in ObamaCare. I think the American people have had and I think we're going to be proven correct in this fight as time goes by.
MORGAN: Should Kathleen Sebelius resign or be fired over this, given she's now said that she must to be held person accountable?
PRIEBUS: I think the honorable thing to do in a case like this, when you've been given the honor and the privilege to serve as a secretary, a cabinet secretary in the United States for any president, I think there's a certain amount of honor and dignity and saying, "Look, this is a big mess. I'm at the center of it. I'm going to resign." That's what, I think, normal honorable people do in cases like this. But if that ...
MORGAN: Wouldn't you rather keep her there?
PRIEBUS: ... have happened and -- that's a bit, you know, listen, it's an interesting question because it also goes to the political answer to, I mean, would I rather let the exchanges go through and show the American people what a headache this is?
The question that they answer politically, yeah, you know what, that make sense politically but I think the problem is, of course, and the reality is this is so bad and it's so hurtful to the American people that even a political, you know, a political ...
PRIEBUS: ... positive like that, it's such a negative that we would never wish that on the American people. It's terrible. That's why we want things -- we put on hold.
MORGAN: Of course. Of course you would. And that's why you shut down the government. But let's just get to a little crystal ball gazing here. Let's get to like a year down the road. And miraculously, White House has turned this around. The exchanges are working, tens of millions of Americans have signed up to it and the whole thing appears to be working despite all these hiccups and glitches. Would you then still be doing all in your power to dismantle it or would you accept, you know what, we tried again and we failed again?]
PRIEBUS: So what you're saying is that millions of people signed up, they don't lose their insurance which they already are by millions already today and doctors are going to honor their -- they're going to stay in this program which 40 percent said they're not sure they are. All of that in fantasy land doesn't happen and everybody's happy and premiums are, yeah, OK great, then that would be a great program.
But that's not what's going to happen, Piers. And you're saying, it just with like, you know, a few days on the market where we're at. It's going to get worse. This is what the reality is.
MORGAN: And let me finally ask you, I want to play you a clip from my interview with Bill Maher last night. Well, we talked about Senator Cruz he's obviously being the standard bearer ...
MORGAN: ... for the charge in ObamaCare. Let's watch what he had to say.
BILL MAHER: I think he's got a shot because I think he has an absolute shot at the nomination. He is definitely going to be the favorite of the people who vote in Republican primaries. I mean, we saw what it looked like the last time and the time before.
But the problem with the Republican primaries last time for them, they said they didn't have a Ted Cruz in there. But Ted Cruz is a Harvard educated lawyer. He's not a dummy.
MORGAN: He's definitely a ringing endorser but he's pretty well near it to someone like Bill Maher is basically saying, "Look, do not underestimate this guy." Could you see a position where Ted Cruz is your party's nominee to be president?
PRIEBUS: I don't know who's going to be the nominee, Piers. I think that we're going to have a great bench, though. I mean, if you look at the young stars in our party that are rising from governors to senators and congressman and former VP nominees, I mean, I think we're going to have a very good bench.
I think the one thing you do have, though, is a unanimous position in this party that we need to either delay or dismantle ObamaCare. And that position of delaying and dismantling ObamaCare as days and weeks go by is going to be a stronger and stronger position for us to have in this party. And I think it is going to be the determining factor in 2014 and that's where you're going to see Democrats caving very soon and they're going to do whatever they can to stop this thing from being further implemented. Just wait and see but that's what's going to happen.
MORGAN: Reince Priebus, good to talk you. Thank you very much.
PRIEBUS: Thank you, Piers.
MORGAN: Well, joining me now to debate all this from the Left to the Right, Representative Frank Pallone, The Ranking Member of the Sub Committee on Health and Congressman Marsha Blackburn, the Vice Chair of the House Energy and Commerce Committee. Welcome to both of you.
So let me start with you, Congressman Pallone, what would you make about Reince Priebus said there?
REP. FRANK PALLONE (D) RANKING MEMBER, SUBCOMMITTEE ON HEALTH: I mean, it's all a bunch of nonsense, I mean the fact of the matter is that to the Affordable Care Act is working. More and more people are signing up everyday, you know, preexisting conditions as a basis for health care have been abolished, people that go and ...
MORGAN: But the website is down as I'm speaking to you. How can you not ...
PALLONE: Well, the website -- the website, obviously ...
MORGAN: ... be sensitive and complete and unmitigated fiasco.
PALLONE: Well, I think that's a bit of an overstatement. Look, the website is functioning, three -- as of last week, 3 out of 10 people actually were able to enroll and everyday, you're going to see improvements. Secretary Sebelius testified today that by the end of November, it should be 100 percent.
But remember, you don't have to go in the website. People sign up everyday by going, calling the 800 number, they can go through an insurance agent, they can go through various non profits.
Last week, you know, I was with people at our food bank that we're signing up. So, you know, the Affordable Care Act it's not the website ...
MORGAN: Right. It's is not been fiasco.
PALLONE: ... needs to be corrected. MORGAN: If it's not been a fiasco, why is everyone from the President to Secretary Sebelius, to Joe Biden queuing up to apologize to the American people.
PALLONE: Why, I mean of course they have to fix the website. I don't think there's any question to that. But, you know, the website is only part of the way you can sign up, there are many other ways to sign up. And there's tremendous interest in this and you see more and more people enrolling everyday. Remember also people care -- are now eligible for expanded Medicaid. And the bottom line is ...
PALLONE: ... that, you know, people can get a better policy at a more affordable price than they were able to before.
MORGAN: OK. Congresswoman Blackburn, let me ask you about this because you are pretty heated today, I want to play a clip from you in action because it was quite impressive. Let's listen to this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REP. MARSHA BLACKBURN, (R) TENNEESSEE: Some people like to drive a Ford not a Ferrari. And some people like to drink out of a red solo cup not on a crystal stem. You're taking away their choices.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MORGAN: Now I have here a red solo cup.
BLACKBURN: Oh, great.
MORGAN: And I have a crystal stem. So there we are absolute clear evidence that some of us do. And let's talk seriously about this because it's clearly been a disastrous start to all this. But what happens as I said to Reince Priebus, if they manage to get it sorted as Secretary Sebelius claims it's going to happen by the end of November.
So, if within a few weeks this is all up and running properly and actually it's popular then aren't you guys going to look a little bit silly come April after the take-off's been terrific and it seems to be working.
BLACKBURN: Well, I have to tell you, you never look silly when you're defending the American people in their pocketbook. And, what we know is to say a voice that hundreds of millions of dollars building a website that does not work. And we are have while we've have them under oath, Piers, we've asked the contractors and the Secretary for an accounting of everything past, present, and future that they are spending on this website.
And here is a big part of the problem. Not only does the website works, so no they can't get to that. But, those people that are signing up are primarily signing up for Medicaid. Medicaid already has a $43 trillion unfunded liability against it. So, we've made the spending problems worse.
Then also you have to look at the fact that those that are signing with paper if you will, their information is going into an online repository. And, we have already had it hacked. Your own network reported on a hacker who got in and removed all this information, personal identifying information on people that had signed up.
So we've already had ...
MORGAN: Well, it was up here ...
BLACKBURN: We've already had a major ...
PALLONE: No. I mean this thing about the private ...
BLACKBURN: We've already have a major ...
MORGAN: OK. OK. Let me jump in.
BLACKBURN: So the processes is a problem ...
PALLONE: I mean it's the same ...
BLACKBURN: ... money processes ...
MORGAN: Let me jump in and ask ...
MORGAN: Thank you. Let me just jump in and ask Congressman Pallone which is, is this.
PALLONE: Well, what is ...
MORGAN: ... of this question. Wait, let me ask me you a question ...
PALLONE: (inaudible) Congresswoman Blackburn's alternative. Sure.
MORGAN: No, no. I'm asking you a question sir which is this.
MORGAN: Is when the President repeatedly stood up and told the American people, if you want to keep your doctor or you plan, you can do that with no qualifications to it, none of this, it is not quite good enough and he gets changed, but just boldly telling people if you want to keep your doctor or your plan you can. That was just a lit wasn't it, a complete and utter falsity.
PALLONE: Of course it was not a lie, Piers, just to the contrary that people can keep their plans, the plans their grandfather ...
BLACKBURN: No. PALLONE: ... that if the insurance companies want it, want it for a lousy -- if the insurance companies want to continue to offer lousy plans that don't have good coverage and cost a lot of money the taxpayer or to the insured, they can. But what's happening of course ...
MORGAN: OK. What percentage of people of who wan to keep their plan or their doctor as per the President's promise actually going to be able to do that.
PALLONE: Oh, probably over 90 percent. Remember that most people get their insurance through their employer and they continue to get that. I think that what ...
MORGAN: Well, to just to clarify, when people say could be as many as 50 or 60 percent may not be able to do that. You'll say, "No, that's nonsense." 90 percent ...
PALLONE: It's nonsense right ...
MORGAN: ... and we'll be able to keep it. Is that right?
PALLONE: Look, yeah. Can I answer the question? Look, the majority of people probably 80 or 90 percent continue to get their insurance through their employer. And obviously the employer continues to offer it and they can keep it.
What the President was talking about and what Congresswoman Blackburn is talking about is the individual market. Now, you can keep your plan in individual market too if the insurance company wants to continue to sell it. But what's happening is these insurance companies realize that a lot of their plans are lousy, almost a scam and so they can't sell them anymore because people won't buy them. Because now ObamaCare ...
MORGAN: So why did the President -- Why didn't the President just say that? Why didn't he just say rather than making his bold promise to everybody to sell out his plan? Why didn't he just be honest.
PALLONE: The problem here, Piers is that, look, we have to look at this from a practical point of view. We want people to be insured and ...
BLACKBURN: Oh please.
MORGAN: What about telling the truth?
PALLONE: ... have to do with insurance policy. And that's what we're offering here.
MORGAN: What about telling the American people the truth.
PALLONE: We're offering a good insurance policy at an affordable price. If Marsha says I want to keep some lousy plan that's a scam, well, the insurance company isn't going to sell it anymore because nobody's going to buy it and that's the bottom line.
BLACKBURN: Oh, Piers. Please let me...
PALLONE: They're cancelling these policies that are scam policies.
BLACKBURN: ... respond to that.
PALLONE: It is not the President's that's ...
MORGAN: OK. Final words...
PALLONE: ... cancelling it, it's the insurance company ...
PALLONE: ... because they're scam policies and they're not going to sell them anymore. People aren't going to buy them.
MORGAN: OK. Final...
MORGAN: OK. Thank you.
MORGAN: Final -- wait a minute, final words to our Congressman Blackburn. I wouldn't be so cheeky for you Marsha.
BLACKBURN: Thank you.
MORGAN: Your final words.
BLACKBURN: Thank you. What we know is that their numbers don't work and individuals have been able to buy insurance or employers able to offer insurance that suited the needs of families and they have been placed with their insurance and to be so insulting to people to say, "Oh, the insurance you've had is a scam." The President should never have gone out and said that and continue to say it. And if, as NBC news reported, they knew this three years ago that that was not a truthtful statement that it is bad ...
PALLONE: If you want to go buy a scam policy, you can.
BLACKBURN: ... work to say we're doing it.
PALLONE: And nobody's going to buy.
BLACKBURN: Now, Frank, you need to stop that. That is insulting and inappropriate to people.
PALLONE: If you want it -- Marsha, if you want to buy a scam policy, you can still buy it. But there isn't anybody that's going to buy that policy. MORGAN: Congressman Pallone if you move the gun close any further, they'll literally be off the field. Let's just move on. Thank you both very much for joining me tonight.
BLACKBURN: Thank you so very much.
MORGAN: We'll continue this debate I'm sure.
BLACKBURN: I appreciate that. Yeah.
MORGAN: As the excuses get ever more ludicrous. Coming up at Arsenio Hall, the actor comedian, talk show host, is in our green room and joins me in just a few moment. But first, the man who knows how to get dirty jobs done right, Mike Rowe. And also, we have Glenn Beck that people across America are all talking about.
Let's get stuck into ...
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ROWE: A lot of people look that and go. Well, oh, there he is, Mike against the college education. I'm not against the college education...
ROWE: I'm against debt. I'm -- that was the only four-letter word in my family.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ROWE: Am I looking at poo and crusted vomit?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: That's exactly was.
ROWE: Those are the good ones. It's like those chocolates you get in the box, you know, and every now and then there's a disappointing center only it's disappointing on the outside and the inside.
This job isn't that bad until you start talking right back, use your words Mike. I can still hear my mother. Use your words.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MORGAN: Dirty Jobs going to Mike Rowe has tackled swamps, sewers and coal mines. But he run up against a different hurdle as possibly when he play on Glenn Beck's TV show. It's everybody's jobs in the street and not defending himself against the crowd of haters.
In the Chair tonight is Mike Rowe. Welcome to you Mike. So let's just remind my view is about why you got into hot boarders way, this is what you said to Glenn Beck.
(START VIDEO CLIP)
ROWE: Like all PR campaigns, it went too far. And we started promoting college at the expense of all those vocations I mentioned that my grandpa did.
GLENN BECK, TALK SHOW HOST: Right.
ROWE: And suddenly those things become vocational consolation price.
BECK: Vocational school is almost like school for the retarded, you know what I mean? It's ...
ROWE: You know Mr. Beck we don't really don't ...
BECK: No I know...
ROWE: ... have what it takes to make it here.
BECK: But would you in a special school.
ROWE: Yes here, can you put the glass onto?
BECK: That's crazy.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MORGAN: The point that you were making, this obviously can put you back. So I watched the whole interview to inform myself of the context of it, but simply that these kids running out vast debts and perhaps spending three or four years studying subjects which they will not be able not to get a job for the end of it, seem to you to be a contributing factor to A, the jobs crisis in America where people are not being educated to suit the right jobs, and B, the $17 trillion debt because of the debt that these kids are having.
ROWE: And C, nothing I said with Glenn prompted any of the, you know, outcry. What prompted it was I walked in a room with him and sat down with him and try to talk with him. And the exact same thing happened of course on the other side a few months earlier when I have the same conversation with Bill Maher and in a few years ago with Bill O'Reilly, and a few years earlier with Ed Schultz.
The country, you know, with one ear they can listen to what you're saying. But with both eyes, they're watching who you're talking to. And I guarantee you as soon as I get home and check my little Twitter feed, there're going to be people saying some things to me about you. Very, very respectful things I'm sure, right? But it's just so much these days not about what you're saying ...
MORGAN: If you're watching, my Twitter is alive and active. Tweet me @piersmorgan and we'll test the theory that Mike Rowe just thing -- if you views about that's one an very audibly. I'm sure there maybe a few.
Let's cut to the quick of this debate which is America has over 7 percent unemployment. It has these biggest companies like Apple, outsourcing 90 percent of the jobs to China. It has a crisis of identity gone from integrating manufacturing powerhouse of the world to something very different and I wasn't quite sure what it is. How do we get America back to work?
ROWE: I think the first thing you have to do is make sure you're looking at a complete narrative. Because while everything that you've said from what I've read is entirely true, some other things are true too. There's the skills gap, there about 3.5 million jobs available right now. 10 percent of those jobs require four-year degree were better.
That means about 90 percent of them requires something else, they require training, they require skill or willingness to get dirty perhaps, but mostly a willingness to learn a new and useful trade. That's always been for sale but it's kind of fallen out of the narrative.
To get it back in in there is there it's if I think is a critical thing to do because, look, like the debate you were just having, it's crazy to suggest in my opinion that one kind of education fits everybody.
Some of the best schools in the country you've never heard of, their modest, they're small and they've got placement rates 80 to 85 percent.
MORGAN: But America's record of literacy and numeracy and this key educational Litmus test, if you like, is shocking. I mean that falling so far behind countries like China, like India and others is almost getting embarrassing. What is going on with the education system in America that is leading to this kind of statistics?
ROWE: I don't think things like the skills gap or infrastructure, or currency devaluation, or manufacturing outsourcing. I don't think these things are problems in and of themselves. I think they're symptoms of something bigger and I think that the bigger thing is our own disconnect with the very fundamental notion of valuable work meaningful work.
I don't think we are up to speed with a new message for a new problem. We're still telling kids fundamentally, look work hard, work smart not hard. That's what we're telling.
You know, I had a poster at my guidance councilor's office that literally said work smart not hard, next to a grad, that is right there, amazing.
MORGAN: Are we breeding a softer generation. And I've got three kids boys in their teenage years, and a young daughter, but three kids with 20, 16, 13. ROWE: Yeah.
MORGAN: And I'm worried about them. They're working hard at school and college and university and so on. I'm worried about what happens at the end of this.
MORGAN: What do you say to them? And that's -- just in Britain America is at in a much bigger scale and is arguably has a bigger problem.
ROWE: Yeah. Look, you can't keep talking about the expectations in the same sense we're in the same way that we always have. You really have to step back and see what are the available jobs right now and what do you have to do?
I talk everyday to we're in business with a couple of trade schools. We've been working on a scholarship program specifically to reward these two things, a willingness to learn a new skill and a willingness to work your butt off.
It's difficult to reward work ethics, but work ethics scholarships are coming. So far from what I've seen it's all about academic. It's about athletic. It's about talent. And it's about need based.
But rewarding work ethic and rewarding the behavior we want to encourage that's what's for sale and that's what we're not doing.
MORGAN: Now you do some disgusting, filthy, slimy (inaudible) time.
ROWE: Very true.
MORGAN: I will ask you after the break. Would you ever consider plummeting the debts of working in Washington DC?
ROWE: Good Lord, I'm just going to sip from my champagne.
MORGAN: I mean, it makes me feel dirty just asking you about it. And if you do, what would you do?
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ROWIE: So this manure came from where?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This came from a zoo. We call it zoo poo.
ROWE: Can you tell from looking at it? What sort of animal produced it?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Well, once in awhile you might get an elephant dung.
ROWE: That's an impressive piece of poo right there.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Sure is.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MORGAN: Right now, Mike Rowe, I wish I never asked people on Twitter to send their verdict. I've never seen such a reaction. Somebody here says Mike Rowe is an all American man stunt, was one verdict. Another one said, Piers Morgan is a complete tool that Mike Rowe is awesome Dirty Jobs keeps American movie. So that ...
ROWE: At least it's complete.
MORGAN: That's social media strategy appears to blown up in my face. Anyway, let's move swiftly a video send me anymore thought because I'm not always going to say -- let's continue this debate -- a very distinct debate today about what America's identity is going to be. It was, as I said this great manufacturing force. Can it be that again?
MORGAN: In with new technology now, the way to do this?
ROWE: We're still the greatest manufacturing force on the planet. We're just celebrating it in a way that's not quite lined up with the available opportunities. And that's really the tragedy. You know, I talked to a guy the other day who runs a Tulsa welding school. All right. They train welders. Every day, companies come to this school. Can you give us 20, can you give us 30, can you give us 40? They do the best they can.
The problem is supply because on the other end, you've got guidance counselors telling kids, "Hey, look. If you don't study hard and get good grades, you're liable to wind up welding." Well, guess what? A good welder, three years of experience, 120, 130 grand a year.
MORGAN: What do you feel though about companies like Apple outsourcing hundreds of thousands if not millions potentially going forward jobs in countries like China? Our direct competitors.
ROWE: Yeah. You know, look -- it's -- I wish my brain was just a little bigger but I remember Huxley said, "The greatest enemy to freedom is total anarchy but the second greatest enemy is total efficiency." And there's something in this conversation that evolves the difference between efficiency and effectiveness. And I'm not quite sure what it is, but is has to do with practical application.
MORGAN: So Howard (ph) talked to you quite earlier, the guy from Starbucks, he has began to bring factories back to America which he would otherwise have outsourced to try and deal with what he calls a moral capitalist duty.
MORGAN: I like that. And I think he will be rewarded. I don't think Starbucks is going to lose business. I think people will reward them.
ROWE: Yes, but ...
MORGAN: What's the but?
ROWE: The but is Walmart has committed to bring back 50 billion jobs and manufacturing in the next 10 years. It's great. I will see them succeed too.
ROWE: $50 billion worth of manufacture...
MORGAN: Not right so (inaudible) I would say.
ROWE: I'm sorry I've got focus as I said jobs, you know. There's perspective campaign to me. But the problem is building factories and creating opportunities isn't enough and that's what the skills gap actually is.
MORGAN: If you going to have the -- If you're going to go back to where the kids are being educated and give them the right skills.
ROWE: You're going to have the will. It's not just a skill you got. It's ...
MORGAN: Well someone -- OK, let's take you off the will. Someone tweeted earlier to me, the problem is social media. Too many young kids are addicted to Twitter, to Facebook, to MySpace, to whatever it may be, they're spending so much time on these laptops.
MORGAN: They don't have the physical drive and growth perhaps as their parents and grand parents. You think that's a good argument?
ROWE: Maybe, but I think a better argument is, you know, well, the show that you work on for instance and many shows that if they're very, very popular, not a crisis and all but it's interesting to see an American Idol for instance or an America's Got Talent. It's not just what you're celebrating. It's the speed with which you're giving the reward.
ROWE: So the gratification today, the expectation is immediate. I would like my blue ribbon now please. You know, and if I don't get the blue ribbon I want to get some kind of trophy because I am that precious snow flake and somebody moved my cheese and where is my job, and et cetera, et cetera.
MORGAN: The moment for me came when egg and spoon raises started being banned around the world.
MORGAN: What the hell are you thinking?
ROWE: Someone is going lose and then they'll feel bad and then what?
MORGAN: My kids have to learn about losing as well as winning, it makes the winning sweeter.
MORGAN: God knows I've lost enough times to know. So, it's a, you know, I just hate that idea that everyone at school has to be a winner.
ROWE: But, look you can't scrub the consequences out of the transaction, whatever it is. STEM for instance, right? Now, there's a lot of talk about STEM jobs, science, technology, engineering, math. I'm a big fan of those things, but those jobs also require skill, why not talk about skill in the context of every job that requires it? If you do that you're going to appeal to a lot of kid's brains, who are otherwise just going to tune you out.
ROWE: Because that's how they see the world.
MORGAN: I agree.
ROWE: Right? So, it's just a question of -- it's not, I'm against college, I'm for this, I'm against that, it's -- look you got to have a big conversation and if you still are hanging posters up that say, "Work smart, not hard." Here's the -- the skills gap is not a mystery, it's a reflection of what we value. That's it.
MORGAN: Could not agree more, Mike Rowe it's great to see you. mikeroweWORKS Foundation is your nonprofit which will scholarship to students pursuing their career in the skills trade. Good luck with it.
ROWE: I'll take it.
MORGAN: Good to see you.
ROWER: Thank you. And sorry about that whole Twitter.
MORGAN: Get on to DC and sort out some really dirty work there.
ROWE: Probably would.
MORGAN: Next, get your fist pumping for the one and only Arsenio Hall. He is in the house.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK) (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ARSENIO HALL, THE ARSENIO HALL SHOW HOST: You know, I never got a chance to thank you for allowing me to sit in and host your show and it got me in practice for this. So thank you.
MORGAN: No, you were fantastic and it's so good of you to invite me back and return the favor and let me host your show tonight.
HALL: No, you're just a guest. I'm interviewing you. You're not going to host the show I mean ...
MORGAN: No. No. No. No. No. No. I'm hosting your show tonight. In fact, I've been hanging out with the Possy 2.0 and we are ready to rock.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MORGAN: At which point, I was unceremoniously dragged out of your studio by your bodyguard. It's a very unsavory (ph) experience this week to appear as a guest on The Arsenio Hall Show, but let's just start with this. You're back.
HALL: Yes, sir.
MORGAN: You are back in late night where you belong.
HALL: I'm really having a good time. You allowed me to have a nice little tune up here.
MORGAN: Right. You guest hosted for me.
MORGAN: And I don't want to over sell the importance of that but since we share somebody quite important in our lives ...
MORGAN: ... there was suggestion that after you did that show under my name, it was a terrific show, that you just felt the juices pumping. You thought ...
MORGAN: ... "I want to be back in this."
HALL: Yeah, and there was a comfort zone too because you allowed me to interview anybody I wanted to and we did a little politics that day and it was back during the Zimmerman Controversy and Trayvon. I did a little bit of that and then I brought Magic Johnson and Cookie Johnson.
HALL: And that was a lot of fun and you know what? It was Magic that looked at me in a commercial and said, "You're going back." And I was beaming. I was very happy.
MORGAN: Has it been everything you hoped it would be?
HALL: Yes, it's a lot of work and it's a crowded market now. I mean, I'm thinking about changing my name to Jimmy because it seems to be working. But it's very crowded and it's much different than when I was in it with just Johnny Carson.
So, Piers, I'm working harder than I've ever worked in my life. And I'm loving it because that's what makes a man whole, work.
MORGAN: Let's talk at your work. Let's get into ObamaCare, which is clearly not working at the moment for fairly disastrous reasons. What do you make of it? I mean is President Obama his great flagship thing that he created in his name, ObamaCare, and they launched it like a bunch of kids at school.
HALL: Yeah. It's sad. I mean, this morning I threw a laptop out of the window, you know, I try to get on the ObamaCare website ...
MORGAN: I didn't know.
HALL: ... threw it out of the window and now I need AppleCare. And I don't know if that's covered under ObamaCare ...
MORGAN: Well at least you know it would work AppleCare.
HALL: AppleCare is very good. Very good. You know, I feel sad for our country because I'm a Republicrat and I believe that the truth lies somewhere in the middle. I think there were some things that Mr. Obama said he might have over promised and now he's going to have to moon walk out of those initial statements.
MORGAN: When you see him behaving just like any other politician, does your heart slightly sink? That there's this guy who came in on this almost messianic wave of this is going to change everything. He was going to change the way Washington worked, he was going to be transparent.
MORGAN: I haven't seen him be so untransparent about anything. I thought when you see all the video replays of him saying you can keep your doctor, keep the plan and we now know that three years ago they knew that was complete nonsense. I feel disheartened. I feel letdown by it and I'm not even an American.
HALL: Well maybe you're letdown because you allowed yourself to float a little too high on the initial promises. I don't necessarily believe in anyone who is a politician because I think it's oxymoronic to be a politician and be anything like us or anything like the common man. I don't even think ...
MORGAN: To be honest ...
HALL: ... you can't even be successful in politics, Piers, if you're the common man. If you're just an honest, truth-telling man it's a business and everybody in it is the same, I'm sorry. Look, for history? I love that Obama. My son gets to see Obama as President, I live to see Obama as President but to mistake this, to be anything other than politics as usual I think is a mistake.
MORGAN: I think I asked you this last time, but I think it's an ongoing fascinating question as to whether the ascent of the first African-American President United States ever had has made America more or less racist. Has it drawn out more racism?
MORGAN: Or has it begun to deal with it properly?
HALL: I think it's impossible for me just as an individual to gauge whether it's more or less. But I'll tell you since he's been in office, I have seen it amplified and I have seen it publicly more than I have ever seen before. And I think it's because racist have a target. I've seen things happen to this President I've never seen happen to a man in the highest office. And a lot of it is blatantly racist.
So I think unfortunately we've seen some things that existed before and will exist after.
MORGAN: Let's take a short break and come back on for beginning one and three tweet saying, "Ask Arsenio, is he getting back with Eddie Murphy?" Don't answer yet.
HALL: To the question?
MORGAN: Keep that on a little (inaudible).
HALL: I mean that ...
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Well done.
MORGAN: Woof, woof, woof.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The wolf man.
HALL: Not the wolf band, the woof man.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MORGAN: There's only one woof man and he's back with me tonight, Arsenio Hall.
HALL: I like those show where they do the pre-interview and you get prepared so you can get your answers. I don't like this. Let's get this over. MORGAN: Let's talk about dream gets, because I have a few myself Jack Nicholson being the number one and if you're watching Jack I know you normally are, please.
HALL: When is the last time Jack did something like this?
MORGAN: About 40 years.
HALL: Was it Carson?
MORGAN: It may one of -- be Johnny Carson.
HALL: One of us will get him.
MORGAN: I would love to do Nicholson, but...
HALL: And since Mr. Trump calls me Champ it'll probably be me.
MORGAN: Well, of course I should remind you, we both want some of the apprentice, but I would whoop you if we took you on together.
HALL: That would be a great show.
MORGAN: It will, wouldn't it?
HALL: Let's do it on CNN.
MORGAN: Let's talk about your dream guest who will it be right now?
HALL: Well, I'd love to have Hilary come play any instrument, that would be great, you know. I've been reading a lot about Chris Brown, and by the way Chris Brown ...
MORGAN: What do you make at Chris Brown?
MORGAN: Why should I not think terrible things about Chris Brown?
HALL: Well, by the way Mike Tyson just came out and said, "He's worried about Chris Brown." Now, Mike Tyson ...
MORGAN: That's bit of a problem.
HALL: He bit a man's ear off.
HALL: If Mike's worried about your behavior you really should check yourself. Chris Brown is (inaudible) charge was reduced to a misdemeanor and that's part of the Washington, DC 49 strikes and your outlaw, but I would love to have them on my show Halloween, maybe he'll punch a scarecrow and we'll get a lot of press.
MORGAN: Do you have any sympathy for it?
HALL: Yeah, because gosh he's such a talented entertainer and you got to think that somewhere in his past there's some kind of pain and I don't think he's a bad kid, I think he's a kid doing bad thing.
MORGAN: Could it be though more cynical. Could it be that he knows that the reaction he gets after this incidence, you know, you and I might be pretty horrified, but a large percentage of his fans think, you know, Chris he is bad boy.
HALL: The street creed (ph) is a good thing now in pop culture.
MORGAN: I think he can be for people like him. I see no damaging effect to his career, whatsoever, in fact quite the opposite.
HALL: If he does in jail time maybe it'll change him. Sometimes, I mean I had brother who spent all his life in jail, it never changed him. He was actually more comfortable in jail than at home with us. Sometimes though jail can change you, maybe Chris needs to be a room mate with O.J. for a minute. By the way O.J. said, "He wants to come out and be a TV evangelist."
MORGAN: And what do you make of that?
HALL: Well, he's going to have to preach the nine commandments and I think that's going to be a strange, but that was in the (inaudible).
MORGAN: You still do stand-up?
HALL: Oh I love doing stand-up.
MORGAN: And how could you do it?
HALL: I call -- well, you know, what I go on Sunday nights with Jay Leno down to a place called Comedy and Magic or because he's there every Sunday and sometimes I go out to the ice house I love to still get on the stage on a Sunday night and get ready for the week, and if I can go out after our show some nights, I'll do it.
I love stand-up. If I couldn't do anything else in this business I know I can still walk in any club and go on stage and make people laugh and at the root of what I love to do that's what it's all about.
MORGAN: What about Eddie Murphy, you obviously was so brilliant together, is there chance, any plan you've spoken about doing something again?
HALL: Oh, we always talk about doing comedy America, as a matter of fact on the third class of wine you come up with some really great scripts, R. Kelly takes your wife and you have to come find her in Queens. But he is coming on my show soon, And I got everybody coming up including a friend of yours, a man who is very responsible for a lot of your success assignment Mr. Cal. Yes.
MORGAN: What are you doing to him?
HALL: He is coming on Friday and in the next three weeks I have -- he is bringing Paulina Rubio, and I have everybody from Cal to Murphy, everything in between, every type t-shirt in between, you know.
MORGAN: Would you like to work with Eddie Murphy or to do something with him?
HALL: What a movie?
HALL: I think we have good chemistry and a sequel to come into America could be cool, but you don't want to mess up a good thing, this is what we always talk about.
HALL: Sequels don't always go the way you want them to. And ...
MORGAN: You don't followed it?
HALL: Yeah. But, you know what ...
MORGAN: Rocky was pretty young.
HALL: Coming to America is so nice where it is. It's so wonderful the way it glorifies Africa and at the same time gives you a smile and it holds up, it holds a ...
MORGAN: We spend the (inaudible), is just leave tend to lies.
MORGAN: Who is pound for pound the funniest person you've ever seen in your life?
HALL: Wow. See, that's interesting because I think the best writer was George Carlin, the funniest person is Richard Pryor.
MORGAN: A lot of stand-up say that, is he deemed to be the unofficial king?
MORGAN: Why? What made him brilliant?
HALL: Well, first of all he wasn't afraid to go places in the world of honesty that some comments (ph) won't go to, like if my mother run a whole house I might not tell you. But Richard went to truth and he was unafraid to unzip himself and show who he really was and that's that next level of where a guy like me might not go, like I just told you about my brother being in jail. MORGAN: Yeah.
HALL: But that's the first time I think I've said that to you or in situations like this and commonly requires that you open that stuff up.
MORGAN: Well, you did tonight. Let's have more of it. I mean I'll see you on whole shows as weeknights. Take a look at these things, well go to arseniohall.com.
I'm thrilled you are back at late night.
HALL: You know what?
MORGAN: You're one of my comedic legends.
HALL: Thank you sir. Come host my show one night.
MORGAN: I will. Arsenio Hall great to have you back. We'll be right back.
MORGAN: That's all for us tonight. A little surprise tomorrow night Ann Coulter will be back on the show. We enjoyed her so much. We can go here and find it back.
AC360 Later starts right now.