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Piers Morgan Live

Will Mayor Ford Resign?; George Zimmerman Arrested; Interview with Ann Romney

Aired November 18, 2013 - 21:00   ET


PIERS MORGAN, CNN HOST: This is PIERS MORGAN LIVE. Welcome to our viewers in the United States and around the world. Tonight, breaking news. George Zimmerman back in trouble with the law. We have the latest. Also breaking news on Toronto's crack mayor. The story just gets weirder and weirder. Listen to what Rob Ford said on his own TV show just moments ago.


MAYOR ROB FORD, TORONTO: I'm not stepping down. I'm not an alcoholic, I am not a drug addict.


MORGAN: You are, though, endlessly entertaining. Tonight I will talk exclusively to the woman who ran against Rob Ford for mayor, Sarah Thompson, says he groped her and called her, and I'm quoting directly here, "A naughty, naughty girl." Also, the Toronto City Councilor who was there when this happened today.

PEOPLE: Shame! Shame! Shame! Shame! Shame! Shame! Shame! Shame!

MORGAN: First, Ann Romney (inaudible) Mitt's failed run for the White House and her unpublished opinion of the President's Obamacare mess.


ANN ROMNEY: He's put himself in a very sticky place because you either have to think that he was not telling the truth or he's grossly incompetent.


MORGAN: Also, another record-setting day for the Dow, but how healthy are America's companies. I'll ask a man who own chunks of everything from Apple to Twitter to Time Warner to Fox, the Arabian Buffet.

I want to begin though tonight with George Zimmerman's (inaudible) killed Trayvor Martin, and was found not guilty of murder, but was today charged with felony, aggravated assault, after allegedly pointing a shotgun at his girlfriend. Listen to this dramatic 911 call. (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SAMANTHA SCHIEBE: He's in my house breaking all my (expletive) because I asked him to leave. He has his freaking gun breaking all of my stuff right now.


MORGAN: And here is Zimmerman's side of the story and his call.


GEORGE ZIMMERMAN: She just started smashing stuff, taking stuff that belonged to me and throwing it outside, throwing it around her room, throwing it all over the house.


MORGAN: Zimmerman was also charged with two misdemeanors, domestic violence battery and criminal mischief. He's being held without bail and will be in court (inaudible) at 1:30.

Joining me now is Lisa Bloom, author of Suspicion Nation. She's also the legal analyst for Lisa, here we go again with George Zimmerman. What is your take on what has gone down today with him and his girlfriend?

LISA BLOOM, AUTHOR AND ANALYST, ARVO.COM: Well first of all, let's look at the context. This is the third woman since 2005 that's accused George Zimmerman of domestic violence. There was his ex- fiancee in 2005, just this September of 2013, Shelly Zimmerman, made very similar accusations against here then estranged husband. And now today the girlfriend.

Are we to believe George Zimmerman that all of these women somehow come up with very similar allegations, and yet he's perpetually the victim because that's his story? I think most people would find that pretty hard to believe.

MORGAN: Yes, and so did the police seems have done, or they wouldn't have charged him. And what's interesting is you hear these two 911 calls, the first one from a very panicky sounding girlfriend being very specific about him smashing the place up and waving guns and so on. And then you hear him calling after she's already gone outside and talked to the police and he's got this very measured tone and he's explaining it all very simply, almost like, if you were being cynical, he is covering the inevitable tracks of the damage that's been created.

BLOOM: Well, I would be even more cynical than that. Why is he calling 911, the operator asks, when the police are right outside? Go talk to the police.

You know, the 911 call is not supposed to be for media and PR to tell your side of the story. It's supposed to be for people who actually have emergencies. So he's tying up the 911 line to give his side of the story which he does in a very calm, relaxed way.

The officer keeps telling him "Go outside and talk to the police." He refuses to do it.

MORGAN: Yeah, and, you know, he's obviously that's very aware of the law and seems to be able to behave in a way which can -- or tries to convince the authorities that he is acting entirely rationally and properly.

BLOOM: Well, look. He has been the Teflon defendant since 2005. Nothing has stuck to him. It's always everybody else's fault. Of course, the worst outcome was with Trayvon Martin, the unarmed teenager who he shot and killed, but there are also these three women who have made these accusations against him.

Each time he says he's the victim, he's acting in self-defense. You know, last time, Shelly Zimmerman dropped the charges. I hope that doesn't happen here. I think most of us, just from the point of view of public safety, hope at least there's an investigation to get to the bottom of it.

I mean, she says for example "He took a shotgun and broke a glass table with it." He says "She broke the glass table." Well, I think police should be able to determine who broke that table. That's something that they could determine and they could find out who's telling the truth here overall.

MORGAN: We also know from the girlfriend's 911 call that he has a shotgun and an AR15 assault rifle in that house. I mean, you know, I am -- I've got to say, completely incredulous that somebody like George Zimmerman is able to just legally own an AR15 assault rifle.

BLOOM: Right. And as you know, Piers, assault weapons were banned from 1994 to 2004 in this country. That ban expired and now he can lawfully have a gun. He's currently incarcerated where can't have a gun, and I understand that the state attorneys down there in Florida are going to ask the court tomorrow to keep him away from his firearms.

But unless a judge rules that way, he is allowed to have concealed guns, so you said he does, on his person, in his car, in his home, really just about anywhere he wants to have them.

MORGAN: Absolutely ridiculous. Lisa Bloom, thank you very much indeed for joining me.

BLOOM: Thank you, Piers.

MORGAN: I want to turn now to Toronto Mayor, Rob Ford, supersized scandal which shows no sign of calming down. The City Council voted today to strip him of most of his powers for meeting the featured cries of "Shame, Shame" and the mayor apparently barging over a council member. Not something you see everyday, certainly not in British Parliament.

Anyway, joining me now is Robyn Doolittle. She's the City Hall reporter for the Toronto Star, also Denzil Minnan-Wong, a Toronto City Councilor who says "Mayor Ford has crossed the line and has to go."

Welcome to both of you. Robyn Doolittle, it is bordering on complete and utter farce. The only think you can say in Rob Ford's favor is, A, from where we sit it's all quite entertaining. And that factor has meant his approval ratings have remained quite high.

Is it a story that, in Toronto, is simply spilling everyone down the middle? All the politicians and media want him gone, but the public are beginning to rally to him.

ROBYN DOOLITTLE, CITY HALL REPORTER TORONTO STAR: Well, his approval ratings aren't exactly high. I mean, they're in the low 40s ...

MORGAN: President Obama would kill for this.

DOOLITTLE: Oh, right. Well, in Toronto, I mean, we're seeing people -- previous mayors with much higher approval ratings. When Ford first started, they were around 60.

So, they're not great. It's true that they haven't moved a lot since this scandal has begun. And, yeah, I mean, he is a master at playing the victim. He's really, really talented at that. You saw it today at council, a lot of these antics but I'm, you know, been in the states today and people are, "I can't believe he's doing that", like, "Is he completely losing his mind?" But no, this is a tactical decision I believe that he's, you know, going out of his way and ...

MORGAN: But why is it despite all these, I quite like the guy? Why is that I feel myself warming to him?

DOOLITTLE: Because you can imagine sitting down and having a beer with him and he's not going to judge you, and he loves football. And, yeah -- no, that's his appeal for sure.

MORGAN: I mean, he has personal feelings. But if that was a criteria for being a politician, I mean almost all of them would have to give up their jobs, wouldn't they?

DOOLITTLE: Well, I don't think personal feeling for most politicians is smoking crack. But it's not, to be honest, the drug that I think that are getting to people. It's the line.

For the last six months, he's been vehemently denying any sort of drug use or even drinking ...

MORGAN: He says he was never asked the right questions.

DOOLITTLE: Right. And I can, you know, grab my cell phone with my tape recorder and my (inaudible) and play you 15 different times that I specifically asked, "Have you ever ...

MORGAN: How did you say to him?

ROBYN DOOLITTLE: "Have you ever used drugs? Have you ever used drugs while being mayor? Have you ever smoked crack before?" I mean, this is that -- that was a tactical decision that he made. He came out and said, "You didn't ask me the right questions," because he knows that the line is what's the big thing.

MORGAN: Let's play a little clip from Bill Weir's interview with Rob Ford today, which is quite extraordinary.


ROB FORD, TORONTO MAYOR: No, no, I didn't say that. No, I didn't say that. You're wrong. You're absolutely wrong, what they say. They said, "Do you smoke crack and are you a crack addict?" No, I don't smoke crack and I'm not a crack addict.

Have I? Yes, I have. So that's what -- I didn't lie. I don't smoke crack, I haven't smoked crack in over a year. But did I? Like, come on.

BILL WEIR: That's semantic.

FORD: Oh, it's not semantic. To you it's seman -- it's typical media. You guys are the same. I'm not an alcoholic. I'm not a drug addict.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: How much do you want him to do?

FORD: Like -- what? No, no. Why would I see an addiction specialist when I'm not an addict? You guys can spin it. You can tell me whatever you want. These people know that I'm not -- I show everyday to work. I'm totally human. You ever got drunk before, Bill?

WEIR: Of course.

FORD: OK, sure.

WEIR: But I'm not running the ...

FORD: It doesn't matter.


MORGAN: I don't think Bill's got a as drunk as often as you, Mr. Ford.

And Councilor Denzil Minnan-Wong, I mean, you are supportive of Rob Ford for a long time. Now, you're not. What changed your mind?

DENZIL MINNAN-WONG, TORONTO COUNCIL MEMBER: Well, I was part of the agenda. I'm a fiscal conservative like he is. I thought that we need to make changes at City Hall so I support the agenda.

I supported him when there were allegations on Gawker that there was a video -- I haven't seen the video. He said there was none, I believed him, I gave him the benefit of the doubt. When he said he had a drinking problem, I had never seen him taking a drink, so I gave him the benefit of the doubt.

The video comes out, he's lied. And now we're learning more information about his involvement with gangs and guns and drugs. We're finding out that he gets behind the wheel and he drinks.

He uses the foulest of languages in front of his office. He used the "P" word which I've never heard any elected official use in public. It's his behavior, his conduct, and his bad judgment and his bad decisions, that's what turned me against the mayor and I believe he has to go.

MORGAN: Yeah, I think one of my favorite moments today, Robyn Doolittle, came when he likened all these to the Iraq war. Let's watch this clip.


FORD: This, folks, reminds me of when I was watching with my brother when Saddam attacked Kuwait. And President Bush said, "I warn you. I warn you. I warn you. Do not."

Well folks, if you think American-style politics is nasty, you guys have just have just attacked Kuwait.


MORGAN: I'm sorry. I know it's wrong. I just find that really funny. I mean I totally funny. He also became a brilliant sketch on SNL. Let's take a look at that.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Again, I am sorry for how I have been acting. It is not indicative of my position as Mayor in this great town of Toronto.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Hey, man. I've got what you asked.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Hey. Not here. Not here. OK? Let's do it under the desk.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This right here, is great. It's premium.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No. No, don't say what it is. Don't say what it is.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: All right, well I got your stuff right here.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: All right. All right. Wow! That's a lot of crack. That was not mayoral behavior.


MORGAN: Brilliant impression. Let me show you live pictures of Rob Ford coming out of his office today, tonight, right now, it's happening live. There he is. Looking like he's determined to carry on battling. I hope you're watching this for a few seconds. Let's see what he's planning to do. A great thing about Rob Ford is he could be friends with almost anything in this moment. I would urge you to stay watching. Here we go.

Here is the crack mayor. No. No. He's going back in. Going back into his office.

So we'll have to keep an eye on that, we'll keep an eye on that. And that was happening right behind you, Councilor, wasn't it?

And so, Councilor, he's been robbed of all of his powers as mayor. What does that mean in reality? Can he stumble on as a figure head or is this the beginning of the end do you feel?

MINNAN-WONG: Well, he retains some statutory powers that are conferred to him by the province. He lost many of his powers that the city has given him, so he's no longer leading the executive committee. He's lost a lot of his office staff and a lot of his budget. He can still carry on. He still has responsibilities at official functions and representing the city in many different circumstances.

So he's lost a lot of his powers. He still can carry on. He still will carry on and he will start campaigning and electioneering. In fact, many would say that he's already started.

MORGAN: OK, councilor, thank you very much for joining me. I want to keep an eye on Mayor Ford's office. We have a camera trained on it. Hopefully, he won't do anything in the next two minutes. But when we come back, the woman who ran for mayor against Ford, she says groped her at a party earlier this year.

Sarah Thompson, joins me exclusive. You probably -- why don't you stick around for this because I think you know all about Ms. Thompson? It could be quite interesting having you here as well.



FORD: And the last thing was Olivia Gondek says I wanted to eat her (expletive deleted). I've never said that in my life to her. I would never do that.

I'm happily married. I've got more than enough to eat at home.


MORGAN: A very extraordinary statement from the gift that keeps on giving to news media, Mayor Rob Ford in Toronto. He's just left his office. I can reveal and dramatically shockingly even he hasn't done anything crazy as he left his office at all.

Seems to have walked normally into an elevator and just gone which is remarkable. Rob Ford has managed to do something without going completely nuts. And Sarah Thompson, you opposed him in the election and you lost. And you said at the time that he had groped you at a party and behaved pretty badly. He called you a very, very naughty girl and no one really believes you.


MORGAN: Do you feel now vindicated by events, so in a sense it's probably much more plausible what you claim for given his way he's been admitting stuff?

THOMSON: Vindicated is such an empty feeling. I just -- I feel sorry for him. I think he's really got an illness and he's got to deal with it. And he's hurting Toronto. And Toronto is a beautiful city. We have ...

MORGAN: Is he hurting Toronto?

THOMSON: I think he is.

MORGAN: Toronto is a lovely place. I've been there. But it's not the most exciting reputational city in the world. Suddenly the whole world -- I'm talking to people at London, are going "Wow, I want to go to Toronto."

If that guy is the mayor, what's the rest of them like?

THOMSON: Well, the businesses aren't saying it's not. I'm talking to business leaders ...

MORGAN: Is he damaging Toronto?

THOMSON: I think it is.


THOMSON: I think people are saying look at, is there a crack problem? Is there a gang problem in Toronto? And they're fearing that.

And I want to tell people, you know, come to Toronto. We have a beautiful city -- let's say city. It isn't that way. He's just sort of defined us as that and ...

MORGAN: What he did to you, what you claim he did, denies it all completely obviously as it continued to. But ...

THOMSON: One of many other lies.

MORGAN: Was he just being rambunctious Rob Ford or was he being a very unpleasant harasser in your view?

THOMSON: He was completely stoned. So, he was not the Rob Ford I know. I had been with him for about 10 months in the election. This was a man who wouldn't even look me in the eye. He would always look at his toes.

So, here he was in my face saying "You should've been in (inaudible) ..."

MORGAN: Did he see toes?

THOMSON: No comment.

MORGAN: So, what people said, you're quite a polarizing figure, aren't you? Because I have some tweets today. It said "I can't believe you got Ms. Sarah Thompson on." "It's all about her. She's just using Rob Ford to get talked about again and make herself relevant."

What do you say to that charge?

THOMSON: I think it's all about Toronto and I think we have to start thinking about Toronto. I've always been about how we make -- put Toronto on the knot. How we make Toronto a world class city.

Rob is about Rob, and Rob has a lot of problems and he's getting them fixed.

MORGAN: Robyn Doolittle, I mean has he damaged Toronto? I mean the media all say that he has, his political rivals say that he has.

I'm slightly torn. I'm seeing two results here. I'm seeing a lot of people thinking less of him in Toronto. A lot of other people are thinking, "Wow, this is all quite fun," isn't it?

DOOLITTLE: I don't think a lot of the media is saying he's damaging Toronto. I think that there is discussion, a reasonable discussion that if you have a man running the city that is admitted to smoking crack and lying about it and drinking while driving, you know, using these kind of, you know ...



DOOLITTLE: ... that's the people, that's the problem.

MORGAN: Has he been a quite effective mayor as he claims?

DOOLITTLE: I think he's exceptionally good at setting a conservative tone. There is no doubt that he did well getting city bureaucrats to think about not wasting money. I think ...

MORGAN: Yeah, I like that.

THOMSON: But look he hasn't been blaming.

MORGAN: So, do you think -- but Sarah he's been achieving that and keeping a good, tight fist on the expenditure, who cares if he gets drunk occasionally?

THOMSON: He's been claiming that he saved a billion dollars, city government costs of rate has gone up $200 million. So he's claiming these lies and people are believing. MORGAN: There's a respectable journalist saying there's some merits to all this claiming.

DOOLITTLE: He's a brand and that brand has changed the culture at City Hall. There is no doubt. The question is can you stomach all the other stuff that you don't want the leader of a world class ...

MORGAN: I've got an idea. We have a naughty blonde-haired mayor in my hometown of London, Boris Johnson. Why don't we swap them?

THOMSON: Is he that naughty?

MORGAN: He's quite naughty. Yes. Why didn't he said ...

THOMSON: He's so crack.

MORGAN: I wouldn't, for anything, ask him, but why don't you send Rob Ford to London and you take Boris? Job done.


MORGAN: Fancy the idea? Will he still be there in a week, Robyn Doolittle? Yes or no?

DOOLITTLE: That man? Yes. He will absolutely be there. The Fords are not ...

MORGAN: He can survive this?

DOOLITTLE: Yeah, he'll cling. I don't know whether he'll survive but he'll cling to it.

MORGAN: Ladies, good to see you. And on the Rob Ford story I'm sure will rumble on and on and on, hopefully. When we come back, Ann Romney, her family life after her husband lost his race for the White House, a new project and some choice words for the President on Obamacare.


MORGAN: The last time I talked with Ann Romney it was in my hometown of London. And she and her husband Mitt were deep in their campaign to win the White House. As we all know it didn't quite go their way. A lot has changed in the year since that. Ann Romney writes about her family in her new book, The Romney Family Table. And in the chair tonight is Ann Romney. Welcome back.


MORGAN: How are you?

ROMNEY: Terrific.

MORGAN: Well, I'll take you back. I'm going to go walking around this wonderful old military site where we did the interview in London. And it was really getting tense. I could see the pressure was building, you know? This was in the late summer.

When I take you back to that moment what was going through your minds? You know, you can afford to be a little bit more candid.

ROMNEY: It's obviously you're on the hot seat all the time. And on top of that you're anxious. You're always just anxious. You want to know what the resolution is going to be, what the end results is going to be. And so, you felt a lot of anxiety actually.

MORGAN: I may have misread the signal slightly but I got the distinct impression that you were not, even at that point, a 100 percent convinced this would all be a great thing for your family if you managed to get to the White House.

ROMNEY: Well, I am convinced that it would not be a great thing. I think it's a sacrifice. And, you know, we should applaud those that do it and we should applaud the difficulty that families go through when you do go through something like this. And so, I think it would have been good for the country but I'm not necessarily certain it would have been terrific for my children.

MORGAN: I want to play a clip. This is from Mitt's interview with the CBS morning show. This was on Friday. Let's watch this.


UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I really feel ...


FMR. GOV. OF MASSACHUSETTS, MITT ROMNEY, (R), FORMER PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: You know, it was a fabulous experience. I loved it.



MORGAN: You are pretty well making it clear. You're not running again, buster.

ROMNEY: Right. You know, I felt that way though after the 2008 election. I will tell you, it was like I was the one who said "Never again, never again." You know, I really don't believe we'll ever run again because, you know, we've run two times and that's, you know, we'll pass the baton now to someone else.

But ...

MORGAN: How brutal is a Presidential campaign?

ROMNEY: It's brutal. It's absolutely ...

MORGAN: For people who can't even imagine what it's like, give me an insight into the brutality.

ROMNEY: You know, you're on your toes. You're -- to begin with, you're stretched in with your -- the amount of time you're spending, you're on the road, you're never home, you're never eating a regular schedule, you're not exercising regularly, you're being attacked by another opposition all the time. You're -- you just -- you're trying to get at your message, you're trying -- you know, there's just so many things that are flying at you all the time. And you're in intense mode every single day.

MORGAN: What was the best moment of the whole thing? And what was the worst moment?

ROMNEY: The best moment is seeing the people. The best moment is seeing the country. And that's a collective thing that happens over time. And it is a good country with good people. And it still is despite all the problems we're going through right now. And despite the difficulties that we see, you know, it's a good, good country and good people.

And we should be optimistic, we should be cheerful, we should be delighted that we live in a country with such liberties and freedoms and such opportunities.

So, I still come away saying "Yeah, it was tough, but I still love this country." And I still hope that really good people run. It's worth it. It's a delight -- I mean it's hard, yes. It's brutal, yes. But it's also one of the most extraordinary experiences.

MORGAN: Outside of the moment you lost obviously, what was the lowest moment of the whole thing?

ROMNEY: Well, you know, the election night I have to say it was pretty darn low. I can't think of anything that was lower than that.

MORGAN: Did you go into that night and genuinely thinking you could still pull it off?

ROMNEY: I was getting nervous on election day. Less sure. I'd felt very confident right up to then, but I had this -- actually I should say about two weeks before I started -- things started to gnaw at me a little bit. Obviously we had the hurricane, hurricane Sandy that was taking all the attention out the election onto, you know, the President performing. And I'm like "Oh boy, this isn't good."

So, you know, there were those feelings that were starting to gnaw at me. And election day, I did not feel good at all. So ...

MORGAN: When you saw old Chris Christie sticking his arm around the President, "Will you get your hands off him?"

ROMNEY: Yeah. I mean on some places, yes, but also recognizing that Chris was dear friend to us, Mary Pat was as well. He really worked hard for us. And so, he was being a Governor, he was doing what he knew was right for his state at the moment. And there's no feelings of animosity towards Chris.

MORGAN: Interesting debate now with Obamacare right now particularly for your family obviously because of course he rolled out a version of this in Massachusetts. It was pretty successful in the end.

What do you make of what's going on? Because you yourself experienced a lot of healthcare in America very courageously. What do you make of this debate right now? And in particular the President's position that he's found himself in?

ROMNEY: Well, you know, he's put himself in a very sticky place because you either have to think that he was not telling the truth or he's grossly incompetent. And you -- either one of those choices is not a good choice.

MORGAN: Which side are you leaning towards?

ROMNEY: I think a little bit of both.

MORGAN: You think he lied?

ROMNEY: I don't think he was telling the truth.

MORGAN: It's the same thing, isn't it?

ROMNEY: Yeah. I mean that's harsh for me to say that because -- but it's, you know, it's -- and I think that's where his real problem is going to be. And I think Mitt said on the CBS morning show that these wrinkles -- they will eventually get worked out one way or another. But the basic credibility of the President is at jeopardy.

MORGAN: And let's take a short break. When we come back, I have got this to surprise you with. This is a marshmallow and peanut butter sandwich. What's it called?

ROMNEY: A fluffernutter.

MORGAN: A fluffernutter. I have never seen or heard anything quite like this.

ROMNEY: I'm sure your high British palate has never tasted anything like that.

MORGAN: I have never had a fluffernutter in my life until this moment. But after the break, we will be discussing The Romney Family Table and a bit more politics.



ROMNEY: At this stage, you look at Chris Christie and say that's a very impressive guy with a great track record, with a demonstrated ability to work across the isle.


MORGAN: Romney on NBC's Meet the Press talking about Chris Christie. Mitt's wife Ann is back with me now. What was the biggest misconception do you think about your husband because ... ROMNEY: Oh, it was ...

MORGAN: I always liked him very much personally and he is always charming and funny and so on. He was slightly more robotic in public, I guess, if I was being honest. But there's this weird disconnect between what he's really like and the way other people spoke about him.

ROMNEY: Well, but, you know, if he went to rallies (inaudible) then you saw it, and I think that was a frustration for me as his wife. It's to -- for people to have the wrong impression of him. And that's why I think one of my great -- one of my favorite moments was honestly the debate ...


ROMNEY: ... and the first debate with Barack Obama. There were nobody interpreting what he was saying.

MORGAN: Totally killed him, didn't he? And he must have gone away from that night, the pair of you, and saw he was gutless.

ROMNEY: Well, it was a good feeling. But I liked it especially because I think people got to see an unfiltered view of him without someone else trying to interpret what he was saying and interpret how -- who he was or anything else and said like, "Oh, he looks like a pretty smart guy that's got a good grip on the issue."

MORGAN: When you see Mitt talking about Chris Christie, we've obviously just (inaudible) him in the first segment, but do you think that Mitt will support Chris Christie? Is he is the type of candidate?

ROMNEY: If he absolutely. If Chris is the nominee, a 100 percent. I mean, you know, Chris is a very capable guy.

MORGAN: You wouldn't be having many of these if runs, will he?

ROMNEY: I hope not.

MORGAN: The -- what are they called again?

ROMNEY: Fluffernutters.

MORGAN: Fluffernutters. So for those of you don't know, this is a Boston specialty that you did a recipe in the book. Let's turn to the matters here.

ROMNEY: Well, it is tongue-in-cheek.

MORGAN: So, two slices of soft white bread -- called yucky bread your boy say, peanut butter, marshmallow fluff. Pretty straightforward recipe.

ROMNEY: Well, it's tongue-in-cheek and I don't know if you can show the picture, Piers, of the reason I put it in the book? MORGAN: This has your -- one of your grandchildren?

ROMNEY: No. That's my son. That's me.

MORGAN: Oh, you're son?

ROMNEY: That's me and ...

MORGAN: I do -- I beg your pardon. It is. It's you son Craig.

ROMNEY: There is Craig.

MORGAN: Covered in fluffernutter.

ROMNEY: And this is what happens when you leave the big baby sitters, his big brothers, in charge. And this is what I would come home to so often. So I did have, you know, some funny things in the cook book.

MORGAN: Was that you? You're like a model there.

ROMNEY: Well, you know, wouldn't it be nice if we could always stay as young as, you know, we were in our 20s?

MORGAN: There's also lovely pictures in here of you, your kids, your grandkids, and so on. But in the heart of the Romneys, I always is this is incredible family rock, isn't there? You all are incredibly close and loving with each other.

ROMNEY: Well, I think we do have a strong family. There's a lot of ...

MORGAN: Look at that. It's bigger than the Osmonds.

ROMNEY: That's a big family. I don't know how many the Osmonds have, but we might be competing. I don't know. I'd have to find out. I don't know how big their family is.

MORGAN: Would you like to see a woman president regardless of which party?

ROMNEY: You know, I'd love to see a lot of more women involved in politics. It's pretty tough business, I will say, but, you know, there's some great women that I hope will step up.

You know, for me, I'm Republican so for me, I'd love to see a Republican woman. There's some great -- Nikki Haley is a great Governor in South Carolina. Theirs a wonderful Martinez -- Governor Martinez.

MORGAN: Have you ever attempted to run?

ROMNEY: Never.

MORGAN: For any high office?

ROMNEY: Never. MORGAN: Really?

ROMNEY: Never.

MORGAN: I think you'd be rather good.

ROMNEY: I probably would be. You know what I'd be good at, Piers? I'd be good at campaigning. I'm not sure if I'd love the actual governing and that's where I think, you know, Mitt would have been so terrific. I mean, you know, he is such a good executive that sometimes we misinterpret the actual job itself and what's required to do the job.

It's not, you know, if you're a good campaigner, it does not necessarily mean you're going to be a good governor or a good president.

MORGAN: What is your favorite recipe in this book? I like the Welsh Skillet Cakes because we have Welsh in my family.

ROMNEY: I have to say I'm going with that. I'm going with that because, you know, I love it. I make it all the time.

MORGAN: It's a recipe from your Welsh grandmother, Annie Evans?

ROMNEY: My Welsh -- Annie Evans. What a lady she was, you know? She and my grandfather -- he started working in coal mines at age 6 and you know what it's like in those coal ...


ROMNEY: ... those tough coal.

MORGAN: Incredibly tough.

ROMNEY: Tough, tough lives they had, and I can't believe that my own grandfather was probably illiterate. I'm not even certain because he died when I was young up the Black line.

But, you know, their lives were tough but their families were strong. Their love for their children was so strong and I still, from far away, I still feel those feelings of family and devotion and sacrifice that they made like so many of our ancestors made to bring us and have better opportunities for their children. And look where -- look, who would have thought, honestly, that his granddaughter would be where I'm sitting today?

MORGAN: Now, you have a new addition to the family, Kieran James Romney?

ROMNEY: Kieran Matthew. I made the mistake once of announcing it the wrong way, so it's Kieran Matthew. Matthew means "Gift from God."

MORGAN: Hang on.

ROMNEY: There is Kieran. He's -- that's my little granddaughter Soley (ph) on his side, and that's baby Kieran.

MORGAN: And he's -- how old is he?

ROMNEY: He is about 6 months old now because we didn't legally adopt him. We couldn't really talk about him until he was legally adopted and legally ours and he is now. So we are able now to let people -- let the world know that he's part of our family.

MORGAN: That's fantastic. When you look at your sons, I mean, they're such handsome boys that have been steep in political experience and stuff. If one of them came to you and said, "Mom, I'm going to make a run. I've decided.


ROMNEY: You know, I'd advised him that this is not a good time in their lives that they need to ...

MORGAN: Regardless of what time that is.

ROMNEY: Yeah, no, seriously right now they have young children. A lot of them and I'd say "You need to be -- you need to be home -- you need to be home." And so I would advise them not to.

MORGAN: All the proceeds in this book, which is beautifully illustrated, I must say it's a really fun book and if you like cooking, I'm hopeless at it, but even some of these ...

ROMNEY: You can do it?

MORGAN: ... some of these even I could do, yeah.

ROMNEY: Yes. You can do it.

PIERS MORGAN: (Inaudible) chocolate roll is looming large in my whole process. But all the proceeds are going to neurological research into multiple sclerosis. You've of course suffered from that from the late '90s. How are you getting -- you always looked so vibrant and healthy.

ROMNEY: Yeah, I'm doing well. And, you know, it's a great blessing that a lot of us that suffered from multiple sclerosis can do well. I have to say when I was first diagnosed, I was flattened, I was unable to get out of bed, as weak as a kitten, couldn't do anything for myself, couldn't get up even to go to the grocery store.

And so I want to give hope to those that are suffering. I very often speak with newly diagnosed. It's such a tough thing to go through. But hopefully, the proceeds of this will help with the research and help push it along.

We're getting better and better and closer and closer, not only will we be studying MS, we'll be studying Alzheimer's, Parkinson's, Lou Gehrig's, and you know, there's a lot of people with Lou Gehrig's, it's a really, really tough diagnosis.


ROMNEY: Because honestly there is not a single thing that can be done for that and we've going to get better at those things and give people some hope. So we have some fantastic doctors in Boston very excited about it.

MORGAN: Well, it's been terrific to see you again. One last question.


MORGAN: Was (inaudible) in London, of course the Olympics run and you had a horse compete.

ROMNEY: I did.

MORGAN: What happened to Refalca?

ROMNEY: Refalca did well. She is -- she tried an (inaudible) you get so attached to these animals and I'm so proud of her. She is an extraordinary -- extraordinary individual. An individual and I mean that. I mean, she has a such a personality. She tried so hard. She gave a 110 percent. She didn't make a single mistake, so bravo to Refalca and ...

MORGAN: Where is Refalca?

ROMNEY: She's -- I'm riding on her occasionally myself now but, you know, horses has been part of my therapy for me to getting stronger. I love them. They're wonderful animals and they're still part of my life. And I still use them for my physical therapy.

MORGAN: It's been good to see you again.

ROMNEY: Thank you.

MORGAN: Really. Thank you very much for coming in. The book is called "The Romney Family Table: Sharing Home-Cooked Recipes and Favorite Traditions." It's a terrific book and will make you feel happy because you get any less fluff -- what are they called ...

ROMNEY: There's more than fluffernutter sandwiches in there.

MORGAN: Fluffernutters.

ROMNEY: That's a joke.

MORGAN: And we're going to have a fluffernutter. Nice to see you.

ANN ROMNEY: All right. Oh, thanks, Piers.

MORGAN: And we have a record-breaking day for the Dow. Are Americas's companies as healthy as they seem? I'll ask a man who owns big chunks of quite a few of them, Prince Al-Waleed bin Talal.


WARREN BUFFET, CEO, BERKSHIRE HATHAWAY: It's not a high percentage, but the ones that made deals with us, I've decided that their handshake is good.

We do not have contracts with -- we have 70 some companies, there may be one or two contracts out there but basically you can't make a good deal with a bad guy.


MORGAN: Said by billionaire Warren Buffett, sharing one of the many secrets to success when he joined me recently. He is no doubt an even richer man tonight, after the Dow Jones set a record high of 16,000 today, closed just off that mark at 15,976.

Joining me tonight another world class investor, his royal highness Prince Alwaleed Bin Talal of Saudi Arabia, CEO of the Kingdom Holding Company and the man know as the Arabian Buffett. Welcome to you, your royal highness.


MORGAN: I know you watched the interview with Warren Buffett and his son and grandson. But what did you make of his views of how to do business? In other words you can never do a good deal with a bad guy, and that with many people, a handshake is good enough for him?

BIN TALAL: Warren Buffett really is, the one on one business and just a stakeholder to the point that not make things too difficult very -- very -- very straightforward and -- that's why I like him, and I just click very well with him.

MORGAN: I actually e-mailed him today, you might like this, and I asked him to give me some questions for you. Given that you are known as the Arabian Buffett, and the first one he said, he said he'll be very interested to know what is the number one worry that you have about investing in American equities right now? Given that you have so many stakes in so many great American companies, from Apple to Twitter to others.

BIN TALAL: Yeah, the big worry is not really from the economy itself or the business or the companies. The worry is that the political fight in Washington really impacts the market and impacts the sentiment of United States.

And we've seen how the deficit talk, budget deficit talk and how the national debt talk almost really ruined the perception about invest -- of investors on United States. That's the big worry right now really, it's not the economy really because one way or another the American economy will survive because it's very resilient. The big worry is that, the political fight bickering between the both parties will have impact on the economy and the investor's sentiment.

MORGAN: Do you still feel confident in the way the American economy is going or do you share concerns that many people have that it's--it could potentially if they're not careful rebound back into some kind of recession?

BIN TALAL: I have a lot of respect and have a lot of confidence for the US economy, no doubt about that. Very resilient and always come up -- comes out of all its these down turns and recessions even stronger.

MORGAN: If you were running the show and Obamacare had gone the way it has gone, pretty disastrously, would you be firing people? Would you be making examples of people? And say "We got to start again with new people at the top?"

BIN TALAL: If I were in the Obama Administration I would not really have it roll out before I'm so sure that all the ingredients of success are in order because this is really a very transformation project.

It's like the new deal. It's like a enrolling in Social Security, in Medicare, Medicaid. This really a huge for transformation projects. And unfortunately it began when -- on wrong footing.

So clearly Obama right now is never going to really rescind it or have it changed dramatically, he will for sure try to budget up and this is going to create more instability in the coming months or years to come.

MORGAN: One roll out that did get very well is Twitter, and you were a big investor, I think $300 million - your state in Twitter. Obviously, you've made a very handsome return, your royal highness. Why did you like Twitter so much?

BIN TALAL: Yeah. You know, for Twitter to be successful, hundreds of other social media companies have to fail. For Facebook or Google have to be successful, hundreds of companies and thousands have to fail.

Really, we followed Twitter from the beginning. We liked their business model yet we'd not invest in the beginning because it was still at the venture capital level. We only invested in Twitter when it went out of the venture capital and became on the verge of maturing. Not mature yet, but began maturing because there's still lot of discussion on how it's going to monetize its business model and to make profit in the coming quarters.

MORGAN: You don't follow anybody.


MORGAN: I'm waiting.

BIN TALAL: OK. I'll follow.

MORGAN: I want to be the first person that you follow tonight.

BIN TALAL: You will be one of them for sure. MORGAN: All right. OK. Thank you very much. Briefly, before we go to the break, I also want to put the other question that Warren Buffet have for you which is he said, if he was to be known as the Arabian Buffet, he may have to cut back a bit on his spending.

What is your reaction to that second question from Warren Buffet? He wants you to stop spending so much money if you want to be like him.

BIN TALAL: I don't spend much money. And what does he mean by that?

MORGAN: I think he means, you know, you're quite often get seen with very large palaces and yachts and all that kinds of things.

BIN TALAL: Then I'll take his advice and implement it very fast. I can't say no to Warren.

MORGAN: Let's take a break. Let's come back and talk about the world stage. Particularly, I want to get your views on what's happening in the Middle East with Iran, Israel, Syria, and other big issues right now.



BENJAMIN NETANYAHU, ISRAELI PRIME MINISTER: I always suggest to foreign leaders, to world leaders, when Israelis and Arabs are saying the same thing, and that doesn't happen very often. It's worthwhile paying attention. We're here. We're close to Iran, and we understand what Iran is doing.


MORGAN: Israeli Prime Minister, Benjamin Netanyahu, warning against a potential nuclear deal with Iran on CNN's State of the Union. That deal for the UN Security Council to loosen sanctions against Iran in exchange for suspending just part of its nuclear program.

I want to now know what Prince Alwaleed Bin Talal thinks of all this is. One of the great players in the Middle East, what do you make of what's going on here, with this tension now between -- clear tension between Netanyahu and what he believes is going on with Iran and the America and everybody else?

BIN TALAL: Yeah, as Mr. Netanyahu said that you really find the majority of the Arab World in complete sync and alliance with the concepts of Israel. And as far as Iran is concerned and its nuclear program, there's unanimity whereby the Arab World and -- at least for Saudi Arabia and the Gulf region, are very much concerned and worried about the Iranian nuclear program. And even more so concerned about any sanctions that the Obama Administration may give Iran and its nuclear program whereby the results of the (inaudible) sanctions that brought Iran to the negotiation tables disappear.

MORGAN: What about Syria? Do you trust Assad when he says he'll give up his chemical weapons? BIN TALAL: It's not that it's trust. That's the deal that Mr. Putin brokered between him and (inaudible) administration. It was really is a lifetime opportunity for him to survive. And, you know, he was on the verge of being hit by the US, the United States.

So for sure he's going to (inaudible) up. And he did abide by the first phase of that deal of the decommissioning of his nuclear -- of his chemical weapons by destroying all the material that were used to build these chemical weapons. And which was November 1st. But now the next and most important deadline is June whereby that deadline, all his chemical weapons have to be destroyed.

MORGAN: In Saudi Arabia, clearly there's a clock ticking. The oil is running out and America is beginning to pump out more and more oil and becoming much less reliant on any Saudi oil.

Giving people back in Saudi Arabia fully understand the dangers of what is going on here?

BIN TALAL: That's a very good question. It is very clear that the dependence of United States on oil, and even the Western World, is diminishing. Actually United States is on the verge of being, not only a oil sufficient country but also being an oil exporter.

So clearly, the demand on oil is going to diminish because of the discovers are happening on oil and gas, (inaudible) oil and gas, and also production in shale oil. So it's important for the OPEC countries, and especially Saudi Arabia in this case, to have less dependence on oil.

As it stands today, 92 percent are going to depend on oil which is really a time bomb. It's a time bomb. And I'm being very public about that and vocal in Saudi Arabia, and pushing the minister (inaudible) to be alert to that situation which is really very serious.

MORGAN: Prince Alwaleed, it's always good to see you. Thank you very much indeed for coming in this show.

BIN TALAL: Nice to see you.

MORGAN: That's all about tonight. AC 360 LATER starts right now.