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Piers Morgan Live
Getting Home for the Holidays; Black Friday Secrets; Is Hollywood Harming Animals?; Alec Baldwin Loses TV Show
Aired November 26, 2013 - 21:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
PIERS MORGAN, CNN ANCHOR: This is PIERS MORGAN LIVE. Welcome to our viewers in the United States and around the world, and unfortunately, in airports all across America. As you know by now, holiday storm threatens millions of travelers, hundreds of flights are delayed. What you need to know to make it home for the holidays.
Also, all of America is anticipating the big day. No, not Thanksgiving, but Black Friday. We've got the secret to saving money before you get even to the mall, using FaceBook and Twitter.
Plus, you've seen what happens when animals attack. But what about when they are the victims? Can you trust Hollywood when it says no animals were harmed in the making of this film?
And the other shoe drops. Alec Baldwin loses his TV job, and has some choice words for a former colleague. Meanwhile, President Obama lays down the gauntlet on guns and the big scream.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: When it comes to issues like gun violence, we got to make sure that we're not glorifying it because the stories you tell shape our children's outlook in their lives.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MORGAN: With the first year anniversary of Sandy Hook just weeks away, is it time the Hollywood to take the lead where Washington has failed and keep all kid safe from guns?
I want to begin now with the story that everyone, America is talking about tonight for obvious reasons the monster storm barreling across the country and threatening millions of people's Thanksgiving holiday plans.
Well, joining me now, CNN's Shannon Travis in Pittsburgh and George Howell in Buffalo. Welcome to both of you.
Pretty rough in both places. Let me start with you, if I can, George Howell, what is the situation in Buffalo?
GEORGE HOWELL, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Piers, so we are just now starting to see the beginning. Earlier, it was light snow. Now, as you can see, now, the snow is heavier, just now starting to stick on the ground and anywhere from 4 to 6 inches of snow in the city of Buffalo and then in the South towns and the southern area here.
We know that they could see anywhere from 6 to 8 inches, even a foot, of snow. The concern is all of this plays out overnight, Piers, and plays out into Wednesday which could be potentially, you know, one of the busiest travel days of the year. There is concern about drivers on the road. We do know that here in the city of Buffalo, though they do have a snow plan, they are prepared to make sure that the streets are cleared to keep traffic moving.
MORGAN: Shannon Travis, you're down in Pittsburgh, I mean, what's the situation of the flights. So I guess, many people will be flying off either tonight or tomorrow. I think I'm going to do that. Are the -- Is the airport operating properly?
SHANNON TRAVIS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Piers, just a short while ago, I actually got off the phone with an official with the Pittsburgh International Airport and they said to me that today and right now, actually, all operations are normal that this is essentially, this rain fall that's happening, this is standard operating procedure. He did say that they are deicing some runways and deicing some planes or whatever, but again, that's standard operating procedure. They are looking at tomorrow's forecast which I think for an accumulation of snow overnight tonight into tomorrow, perhaps 5 to 9 inches total, Piers. So they said they will be ready for that tomorrow as George just mentioned, obviously, millions of people will be taking to the road tomorrow AAA estimates the potentially around 39 million people across the country going to be in the roads.
So this winter mess that we're seeing here in Pittsburgh and across the region, really across many parts of the country, officials are telling me that I've spoken with transportation officials are saying, you know what, be careful but also be careful of those snow trucks, those snow plows, those solid trucks that are trying to clear those roads. Piers?
MORGAN: Shannon, thank you very much indeed. It's a nightmare indoors the airport as well, CNN's David Mattingly is at the world's busiest airport in Atlanta. David, pretty chaotic down there. What's the latest?
DAVID MATTINGLY, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well this definitely the busiest time at the world's busiest airport. Tomorrow alone, we're expecting to see a quarter of a million passengers making their way through this airport on to their destinations.
Right now, it's actually smooth sailing. The weather is not too bad. I look at the board just a short time ago, out of about 300 flights departing from here tonight, only one, just one was listed as canceled. There were a few that were listed as delayed and those not delayed for very long.
So tonight, pretty much business as usual with the light range in Atlanta but everyone is looking forward to tomorrow. That's when the problems might pop up with everyone trying to reach their destinations, New York, Philadelphia, just like you saw in those live shows just a couple of moments ago from New York and from Pittsburgh.
Those are the dominos that are being set up right now, the wind, the rain, the snow, the ice. Here at Atlanta, we're waiting to see how those dominos fall and how they fall will impact that quarter of a million people who are coming through here tomorrow.
The advice that airlines are giving to everyone right now is to stay in touch with your airlines, keep an eye on your flight in case it is canceled so you have as much time as possible to reroute and reschedule.
Some of the airlines are actually waving some of those fees that you would have to pay normally for rescheduling because of this weather trying to make it easy as possible on people. But, right now, Piers, at the world's busiest airport, tomorrow is what they're watching for.
MORGAN: David Mattingly, thank you very much, indeed.
I'll go to Chad Myers now, the CNN Severe Weather Center. Look at just how much of a mess this will be tomorrow. Chad, things are bit like a calm before the big storm is the feeling I'm picking up from our correspondents.
Is that an accurate assessment?
CHAD MYERS, METEOROLOGIST: Yeah. The winds, right now, are somewhere in the 20-25 mile per hour range. By tomorrow in Boston, because the storm is getting very deep, it's going to get much bigger, much lower in pressure. The winds are going to be 60, Piers. So this is the calm before where we at tomorrow.
It's going to be ugly by the time I talk to you tomorrow night. The winds are strong in some spots. Raleigh you're almost 70 degrees right now. And the winds are out of the south. But on the back side, the winds are out of the north. We have something called the misery index from flightaware.com, flightaware.com/miseryindex 776 airport delays right now but only six cancellations. That means you're going to get where you're going, you're just not going to get where you're going on time, 81 airport delays right now in Atlanta. Chicago will take you their 76 airport delays at that point. Right now, is Charlotte not really a big hub but 62 delays going on there mostly I guess U.S. Air. And the last one would be Houston at 58 airport delays.
So, I've not seen that in the long time, Piers that 776 airport delays going on at this point. Here's the scary math (ph). Piers when we're talking about calm before the storm. Here's what we're expecting tomorrow when the winds blow in New York City at 40 and the winds blow in Boston to 60 an hour or two delay and probably D.C. two to three hour delays in New York City and maybe more than that maybe four hours in Boston because the planes are going to have to be so far apart when you get winds like that especially it happens to be a cross wind. Piers.
MORGAN: And Chad, when will this all be over? When is it going to be move pretty well back to normal weather wise? MYERS: You know if we get through the Macy's Day parade with the balloons up we're just talking about that in the last hour 34 miles per hour and the Macy's Day parade will be to cut off the balloons, the big floats, the big snoopies can't fly around. They have to ground them because it's just too much. By 3:00 in the afternoon of Thanksgiving, wind's down to 10. And it really is completely over. Now it's cold but it's over. And Friday going home or whatever absolutely perfect.
MORGAN: So, it's just really about tomorrow isn't it?
MORGAN: It's going to be truly a nerve-wracking day for workers who've got plans tomorrow because millions of Americans do have those plans. But one thing I can be certain of Chad Myers will have all the information you need as we get into this dreadful day weather tomorrow. Chad, thanks very much indeed.
MYERS: You're welcome, Piers.
MORGAN: There's heart-warming silver lining to the storm, a Newtown high school football team moved up their final game this season because of the storm today. They dedicated their season to the 26 victims of last year's Sandy Hook shooting and finish with undefeated 12-0 record.
Coming up, your Black Friday secret weapon, how Facebook and Twitter could save you a bundle. Also Alec Baldwin's anger management why he just lost his primetime TV job.
MORGAN: All of America anticipated the big day. That day of course is the day after Thanksgiving, Black Friday, an all day of shopping that could make or break businesses across the country. My next guest has the secrets to saving money before you even get to the malls and his book is "Jab, jab, jab, Right hook." And Gary Vaynerchuk joins me now.
Gary, how are you?
GARY VAYNERCHUK, AUTHOR, "JAB, JAB, JAB, RIGHT HOOK": Good to see you again, man. How are you?
MORGAN: Good to see you. You're the perfect guy to talk you about. So how do we all basically save money while spending a fortune on Black Friday?
VAYNERCHUK: You know, if we start following these retail brands on Facebook, Twitter I think the one place to really start paying attention to is Pinterest and Instagram are emerging as well. But across these platforms, these are becoming the new e-mail services. E-mail open rates are declining, the social networks are growing. And so I would focus on following the retailers of choice across these platforms, though not all the retailers are doing a good job. MORGAN: Is this now that the biggest social media meets commercial shopping day that America has?
VAYNERCHUK: Yes. But also don't forget about Cyber Monday. So a lot of these people that if their -- these companies are playing on these platforms, they're also very much focused on Cyber Monday. So a lot of these, you know, bricks and motor stores, they're trying to grow their business and Walmart in targeting CostCo. They're paying attention to the Amazon's of the world. So they're trying to grow their cyber business. Cyber Monday is becoming a very real player in this whole equation of a weekend as well.
MORGAN: How do you think companies in America generally? The bigger ones are dealing with this new emerging super power of social media.
VAYNERCHUK: You know, it's funny I've been paying attention a lot of this new book I wrote is focused clearly on all this. So I've been paying attention a lot. You're looking somebody like Macy's, I was looking at them yesterday. I'm so impressed with how they're so focused on Pinterest and Instragram. And then you look at BestBuy or Sears which, you know, it hurts my feelings, I'm sure some of their executives and employees are watching but it's an utter disaster. They just are not focusing on it. I mean Sears or BestBuy, I can't remember which one now posting their TV commercial as a Facebook post. Nobody's on Facebook to watch your 30 second TV commercial.
MORGAN: There was an interesting story this week involving gap using Twitter ...
MORGAN: ... I thought in a very imaginative and effective way. It was after holiday ad featuring a turbaned Indian Sikh American actor and a fashion designer next to a female model with a caption "Make love." It was defaced in a subway station in the Bronx to say make bombs and please stop driving our taxi. It's really very offensive and Gap reacted in a very small way. They used Twitter to find that where the ad was and then changed their own company Twitter background to that ad.
What do you make of that?
VAYNERCHUK: This is brilliance. I mean, look what's going on here. We're living in a world now where brands are reacting to real life events. They show that they care and they're listening, they then adjust them because public statement. Their profile picture now is that ad. And here, you and I are speaking on it, about it to millions of people. I mean, we need to really focus on what's happening here.
Gap did a great job. They acted human. That's the part, Piers that I'm so focused on they acted human, they fix it, they took a step further, they made a stand. And listen, I've been following this for the last couple of days. The community that they've responded for is responding very positively going into this holiday season and I have a feeling that people that had a lot of heart for this issue are going to support that retailer. MORGAN: It's funny when I see high profile people directly challenging companies for bad service wherever it maybe on Twitter. It's interesting to see how these companies respond. But I have one myself which I was very impressed by and maybe it was happening because I do nightly show CNN, who knows, but it's sort of impressive. When I had a problem with Yahoo mail, Marissa Mayer directly tweeted me and said, "We're going to fix this right away." And that was just good customer service.
VAYNERCHUK: Yes, and again ...
MORGAN: Suddenly in a very public way. I'm not only -- not only am I happy ...
MORGAN: ... but everybody watching that interaction. That's pretty smart.
VAYNERCHUK: Correct and that's because of you. The CEO of most companies is interacting and that's because your special guy, Piers. You know, but normal people were seeing a lot more ...
MORGAN: Thank you, Gary.
VAYNERCHUK: ... you're welcome. Everyday though, we're seeing more and more brands, I mean, listen to what I do for a living, we represent any Fortune 500 companies engaging with regular people with 100 followers, with 38 followers and they feel really special.
You're accustomed to a higher quality service when an average Joe and an average Jill gets engaged with a Fortune 500 brand or a celebrity, they go bunkers. They talk about that forever.
MORGAN: Now you're an expert in all these things. The last time you're on my show, you were basically lecturing me on how to be successful on tweets because you get all these followers. How many followers have you got now?
VAYNERCHUK: Over a million now.
MORGAN: Well, that's very, very good because I had I think about 400,000 last time ...
MORGAN: ... this has risen to 3.8 million.
VAYNERCHUK: Listen, I mean, you talked about ...
MORGAN: Should I be advising you now again?
VAYNERCHUK: Listen, you know, it doesn't matter how many you have but matters how many hair, right? So you're top line number is very impressive but how many you're actually engaging is the real in that game. MORGAN: So you've moved from a position that it's all about the quantity, to now, it's all about quality.
VAYNERCHUK: And just we can rewind it and get jumped and wall (ph) to rewind it. I've never been on the top line number. I've always been about the depth. I don't care how many people follow you, I care how many people actually buy, convert, tune in, it's an actual ROI to the actual business.
MORGAN: Tell me about the book "Jab, Jab, Jab, Right Hook."
MORGAN: What is the key message that you want people to take away from this?
VAYNERCHUK: The key message is whether it's this show or Walmart or Gap or anybody in the world that has something to convert that if you don't give, give, give, you can't go in for the ask. Most celebrities, most retailers are throwing right hook, right hook, right hook. Tune in, buy my book, come to my store and buy this. And when the customer knows the right hook is coming, they dock and that's a little reel we just have now, right. It's not the top line number, it's how many convert. The number one way to get people to convert is to put out quality content, three, four, five, six times, happy Monday, lightweight things. A chart with some information, some tips on wine reviews which is my old world and then you can ask for buy this Bordeaux and that's the whole formula here. And I went through 86 case studies to show people brands that did it poorly and celebrities and brands of celebrities and small businesses that did it in a good way.
MORGAN: What did you make in the whole ObamaCare Fiasco in particularly the technological failings that led to the rollout's biggest disaster, I mean, did they just get it completely wrong and who they source this too and how they did it?
VAYNERCHUK: I'm not knowledgeable enough to talk about the actual ObamaCare but from a tax standpoint, this is classic big government, same way I look at big corporate America, spent a lot of money and lack of execution, there's a bunch of entrepreneurs in Austin, Texas or in Columbus, Ohio or at San Francisco, (inaudible) New York, a small group of entrepreneurs that could have executed that technology for one 100 in the price. I promise you, I see it everyday, big companies, hence, big government spending a lot of money on tech, bureaucracy, politics, not enough skill because the best people don't work on something like that, it's just -- as an entrepreneur and a hustler, that's just classic.
MORGAN: And with a clip from Mark Zuckerberg talking about what he thinks is the future of our economy and how it should be orchestrated.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Fix America's broken immigration system. MARK ZUCKERBERG: The future of our economy is a knowledge economy and that means that getting the most talented people into this country is the most important thing that we can do to make sure that the companies of tomorrow are founded here.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MORGAN: Is he right Gary?
VAYNERCHUK: Yes, and he's partner in crime who's really leading that charge Joe Green, that whole movement is 100 percent right. Listen, I'm a Russian immigrant. I was born in the former Soviet Union. I was luckily able to come to this amazing country and I'm going to pay a heck of a lot of taxes by being a bright person. And so, I think this is absolute knowledge-based game. You got to bring the best and the brightest. I agree with him 1 billion percent.
MORGAN: Gary Vaynerchuk always good to talk to you, the book is called "Jab, Jab, Jab, Right Hook." Your New York Times best selling author am sure is one will do brilliantly too, how to tell you a story in a noisy social word. Thanks for coming on Gary, (inaudible).
VAYNERCHUK: Thanks man.
MORGAN: Coming next, the President's message for Hollywood on guns and Alec Baldwin's harsh words for former colleague.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
OBAMA: And it comes to issues like gun violence, we got to make sure that we're not glorifying it because the stories you tell shape our children's outlook in their lives. Now, earlier this year, leaders from this town sat down with Vice President Biden to talk about what Hollywood could do to help to keep our kids safe. This is in the wake of Sandy Hook. And those conversations need to continue.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MORGAN: President Obama today, Jeffrey Katzenberg DreamWork's studio, encouraging movie and TV big leagues to show gun violence in a way that doesn't encourage people to carry out crimes in real life. Is this is not the answer to America's gun problem?
Well, joining me now is Krista Smith, CNN Entertainment's Commentator. Welcome to you.
What do you think of this? I mean, it's an interesting point. To me there are many facets to America's gun culture violence problem. But can Hollywood just shut its eyes and ignore its own culpability or responsibility?
KRISTA SMITH, CNN ENTERTAINMENT COMMENTATOR: Well, I think Obama coming and speaking is a good thing. I don't think any harm is done in that. And I think the industry as a whole it will benefit from taking pause and thinking about contoured (ph) as violence, but ultimately, I think this is a personal responsibility issue. I think it's a mental health issue.
Just because I watch Quentin Tarantino movie and I love it doesn't mean I'm going to think I'm Uma Thurman and I'm going to go out and, you know, slice people up with my machete. I think that there's a big disconnect. And that is what I think needs to be addressed.
MORGAN: Obviously, you worked at Vanity Fair and they glamorize the very best of Hollywood in many ways. Did you have that kind of internal editorial debate about ever using weapons in luxury that kind of thing there?
SMITH: I think there's always a debate about what goes into the issue and how far are you push and getting behind that decision of why you would print a certain image or not or holding back. I think it's -- that dialogue always happen. It's continuing to happen.
MORGAN: It's interesting survey released last week for the Anenberg Public Policy Center, the highest university who said that the amount of gun violence in the top-grossing in PG-13 movies has actually tripled since the rating was instituted in 1985. In 2012 it exceeded the gun violence in the top-grossing R-rated movies. So that cannot be a sensible way forward, can it? That young kids in America are being pumped with more gun violence imagery than fully pledged adults?
SMITH: Well, I think it's -- I mean you look at "Grand Theft Auto", it made 800 million the first day it was released. That's more than "Gravity". The movie is, you know, well maybe go on to make that much money after time but this is -- the video games, the public wants it. And I think that, you know, you -- the argue that can be made that we are numb to it. That -- But I think that can be made across all mediums.
MORGAN: But take smoking for example. Smoking is almost non-existent in movies now and yet it used to be incredibly permanently. You watch the old movies and every ones lighting up all the time. It did it for public health reasons. You could argue that gun violence is an even more important overriding public health issue that nobody in Hollywood seems to be doing about it. In fact, quite the opposite, they're increasing the amount of gun violence imagery in the movies.
SMITH: Well, I think that it's more of, you know, the way of society is now, we learned that it's definitely you smoke cigarettes, you will get lung cancer. I don't think there's enough scientific evidence to say, you will. If you watch this film and you see violence and you are going to go out and commit violence. I think it's two separate issues.
Do I think it's important to have that dialogue? Absolutely. Do I think that Hollywood could always do more? We can always do more. And I think that, yeah, Washington has always come to Hollywood to ask for help. I mean Hilary Clinton was here three weeks ago asking all the creators in town to come up with ways to initiate public service and childhood education. And it's not surprising that Obama's here. I think the good part of that is it's actually bringing the attention back to gun violence. These are -- I'd like to talk about it in terms of the mental health issue. And I think everyone's kind of skating over that.
MORGAN: But isn't the problem as I see it, some one like Adam Lanza of the Sandy Hook shooting for example was really obsessed with violent video games and that kind of imagery. If you are mentally unstable or mentally ill, that is the point that I think the violence on screen can stop to blur the lines with somebody between fantasy and reality. But 99 percent people watching it, like me or you or my kids or whatever, we're actually fine. Is that tiny percentage who are unstable. How do you deal with the fact that it's just small fraction of people?
SMITH: Exactly, I mean I think that there in lie's the rub (ph) how do you get to -- how does America deal with the mental health? How do you deal with that, you know, disenfranchise youth that's sitting there playing 15 hours a day and only communicates with his mother, I read that report via e-mail and she only relates to him by shooting guns. So she's able to get the guns because she's technically not mentally ill and he has access to them.
MORGAN: But if you take cars for example, you know, back in the '50s and '60s. Drunk -- Drink driving was a massive problem in America is killing tens of thousands of Americans a year. And then eventually, they brought in a lot of regulations for driving cars, some seat belts to tough drunk driving laws to all sorts of registrations and insurance policies and so on. Really made it very draconian by comparison to what it used to be like. And that there's a real reluctance to do that with something like guns which I find baffling.
SMITH: I would agree with you. I mean, and I think we have a bigger problem in the future with all these, you know, young adults, men and women coming back from Iraq and Afghanistan and they've been doing two or three tours of duty and they've actually really seen horrific things in real life and had done them, had witnessed them. And how are we dealing with them coming back, you know, that is a bigger issue. And yes, I think Hollywood we're always good for a debate and this is a subject where there is kind of, you know, subjective. So it kind of goes back and forth and arguments can be made for both sides.
MORGAN: Was Hollywood pleased to see President Obama or has the -- has the warmth and joy is original ascension to great power abated over the years?
SMITH: Well, judging -- I don't know if you were out about L.A. today but judging by the traffic, I think Hollywood ...
MORGAN: Well that's always terrible. I just shot that over three. It is a night mare but do you see -- I think a lot of Hollywood stars to me are becoming increasingly critical of him. Do you think that his bubbles actually burst with Tinsel Town in terms of their unequivocal support he had at the start?
SMITH: Ultimately, no. I don't feel it has. I think they have ...
MORGAN: You think when push comes to shove? SMITH: When push comes to shove, they have no trouble getting people to pay for those very expensive dinners and getting people to attend various events all over Los Angeles from different communities, I would say no.
MORGAN: Kris Smith, thank you very much indeed. Coming next, two violent videos and movies influence people at the Sandy Hook shooting as we just discussed while I talk to a top psychiatrist his expert view.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
OBAMA: When it comes to issues liken gun violence we got to make sure that were not glorifying it because the stories you tell shape our children's outlook in their lives.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MORGAN: The real life bloodshed in Sandy Hook was more horrifying than anything Hollywood's have ever come up with. But do violent movies and video games influence disturbed shooters like Adam Lanza?
Well to Michael Welner a forensic psychiatrist and developer of The Depravity Scale, he joins me now. Welcome to you Michael, it's a very difficult issue that's happen. It's like I said in the earlier segment, 99 percent of people that watch these movies or done video games do so without any potential risk that they will emulate what they're seeing on screen.
But what do we do about the 1 percent, whether it's James Holmes the Aurora shooter who was obsessed with the Joker from the Batman movies or Adam Lanza watching Call of Duty all night long and so on. What do you do to try and deal with that tiny percentage who are unstable and blur those lines?
WELNER: Look I think you raise some very interesting points and questions in the last segment. But with that said, I have to reject your question to say that the idea, this isn't about a 99 and 1 percent. It's recognizing the role that the entertainment medium has in cultivating the at risk person for mass violence. And if anything, whether it be mental health, or guns, or the entertainment industry has a role as part of that, they've got to step up and man up and change.
And it's great for the President to raise this issue because Hollywood's role is in cultivating and engendering role models of destructiveness. People that are unfortunately, all too easy to relay to. You talked about the taking cigarettes off screen and how Hollywood has changed how it presents things. Well, killers used to be presented as monsters and now, they're not only presented as people we can relate to like Tony Soprano, but people if you look a serious like Breaking Bad that you root for. You root for them to kill. You root for them to get away with. And culturally what it does is it engenders an idea that bad is good and good is bad and the idea of venality of killing.
Now, when you combine that in a developing adolescent who is saturated with violent and violent imagery and has the escapism of video games, and by the way with your last guest, it's time for a little honesty. The entertainment industry owns the gaming industry. The gaming industry develops games with the specific way of making them as addicting as possible. Look, 99 percent of people used methamphetamine, don't get violent. Does that mean that it's time to start making meth labs legal? Come on. Let's get honest here.
When I have a case and I work on these cases and I have to clean up these mess and Hollywood does it? When I have a case of an attempted mass killer who tried to get into the NBC Today Shows studios after watching Natural Born Killers 10 times, do I need a research project to tell me that he is drawing influence? When I have cases I do right now on the South of a child who was beheaded, beheaded. And the mother's immediate response in hearing that the child who's dad was -- did he behead him because she knew that that was something that he pulled out of a video game. Do I need a research study to tell me that this person who identifies with violence is not influenced?
We are infusing vulnerable people with a culture in which parents are substituted by not just video games but video games in which people can take a point of view approach to destroying everyone around them. They're incentives by getting points and no more important person under as graphic the most devastating mass killer in history wrote a manual about how to use video games as a training manual which Adam Lanza study. And this is exactly the way the phenomenon of mass killing goes that people who want to kill for the sake of killing, they look up to people.
They compile their spreadsheets because Adam Lanza want it to be on the next spreadsheet. It doesn't make mental illness irrelevant. I'm working on that. I'm stepping up pretty bad on that.
MORGAN: We have ...
WELNER: But the idea ...
MORGAN: ... we've got some pictures I want to show you.
WELNER: No way. No way that's not an honest way to approach this. And it won't solve the problem.
MORGAN: OK. You made some great point, sir. I want to show this some pictures from Adam Lanza's lair which is the best word describe what he did again. There are these games, a variety of very violent video games. Two unnamed commercial movies that depicted mass shooting. They get a repeat. The Aurora shooter James Holmes obviously, we know he was obsessed with Batman and Joker because that's what he dressed up as that night to commit that atrocity.
So there clearly is a link and yet I know already from my Twitter theme which is blowing up with this that there are many, many people in America, the vast majority who get enraged at the suggestion that they can be any link between fantastical, you know, gun violence in movies or video games whatever and reality. And they say it's just not possible. How do you deal with changing people's minds?
WELNER: Well, again I think that one has to recognize how badly do we want to solve this problem. I can tell you and look this is from professional experience in over the course of the next couple of years with all of the murders that I have to work on. And I work in more murders than most forensic psychiatrist you'll ever meet, I will find more than ever direct linkage to video game violence than I will too cocaine which is illegal, amphetamine which is illegal, hallucinogens which are illegal and there are plenty of people who enjoy hallucinogens. Some of them are probably in government right now.
And yet, that doesn't mean they're going to be killers and yet we have illegal drugs because we have concerns over the broader effects. So are we a socially responsible society or not? You tell me, I can tell you as a parent. I would have -- I've no desire to expose my child to these video games. Do you as a parent watching this, you think your child is going to get into Harvard watching Grand Theft Auto? Do you think your child would suffer if every person watching this would make a big bonfire on your front lawn for in every single violent video game and vow, I will never pay for another violent movie because, you know what, I'm going to suck the economy out of Hollywood.
And then you know what, then you're going to get socially responsible movie making because now, there's no thought into it. It's the idea that ...
MORGAN: And Michael what about ...
WELNER: ... on titillating violence that presses that button of Violent Gore 2 ...
MORGAN: Yeah. What about ...
WELNER: ... and Violent Gore 3..
MORGAN: What about the parental responsible in particular, look at this case of Adam Lanza and I have to say that although she lost her life and it's very tragic for her that Nancy Lanza, his mother, in my view was grossly irresponsible in not raising any flags about this boy.
There's a guy blackening out his windows, violent video game obsessive and she's taken him to gun ranger (ph), he's a loner. He's strange. He communicates only by e-mails for the last few months of his life and you have noticed that (ph) did she bring anybody in to try and tackle what was a ticking time bomb. What do you say to other parents out there who might have concerns about their son, what should they do?
WELNER: Well, I happen to be very sympathetic to Mrs. Lanza because I know what it's like to deal with people who have developmental disabilities, who are periodically violent, who cannot be committed (ph) and what happens in some homes with parents who are struggling with children who had behavioral disorders even if they can get somebody or a doctor a young male is in denial of illness refuses to take medicine and there's enough of this climate of fear within the home that the illness ends up controlling the home.
We don't know what happened in the Lanza home but we do know that she's the only person who stepped up to the plate to love him. His father that nobody blames wasn't around and his father was a strange -- and I'm not blaming his father. But I think it's really easy and very rich of us to say of a woman who had to be the father not just the mother and who have to find a way to connect with a child who refused to connect that in hindsight that we can necessarily point a finger at her.
We don't know what went on in that home but I will tell you this. He obviously proved himself to be a scary person and before he ever became a monster to the rest of us he was scary to her. In my professional opinion, you have to deconstruct the mass killing event by when it happened. It happened that day to a person who forbade her access and we don't know if she stumbled across something that had been his secret buried and nurtured for a while and he recognized if I don't embark on this mass killing now she's going to expose it because she says tomorrow we're going to go and talk to somebody and he says, "Oh no, we're not."
And I have worked on cases like that before a fantasy of mass killing is hidden. It is protected and it is protected to the point where the mass killer will do anything even kill his own mother in order to keep her being discovered. Now, is that what happened here?
MORGAN: OK, Michael?
WELNER: I think we can get to the bottom of this with further scrutiny.
MORGAN: Michael Welner I've got to leave it there. It's been fascinating talking to you. You've hit many, many hot button points there and it's a great debate to be having and listening to ...
WELNER: Well, I appreciate you -- I appreciate you raising the questions because if we don't have this discussion it's going to happen again and I appreciate the President being honest and starting to face up to it.
MORGAN: Michael Welner, thank you very much.
Coming up next, Hollywood tells you no animals were harmed in the making of these films, can you trust them? The shocking charges about what may be happening off screen. That's next.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ALEC BALDWIN, ACTOR: Get away from my kids with the camera. You know what's going to happen here, don't you? Come on.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MORGAN: Beginning of the end of Alec Baldwin's TV job at MSNBC. In the aftermath of that rant his show Up Late has been canceled just some harsh words of former colleague Martin Bashir among others he send a quote, "Martin Bashir is on the air, he made his comment on the air. I dispute half the comment I made but they killed my show. And I have to take some responsibility for that myself."
We've invited Alec Baldwin to come on this show as he has done many times in the past and tell his side of the story. Alec you're welcome here anytime after all that its worth, I don't think you're a homophobe. I think it's been a ridiculous overreaction.
And now, I want to turn to shocking charges tonight about movies like Life of Pi, an investigation of a Hollywood report alleges that the tiger in that movie almost drowned on set and that's not all for charges that the film review disclaimer no animals were harmed in the making of this film, is that always true? Entertainment correspondent Nischelle Turner has the story.
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NISCHELLE TURNER, ENTERTAINMENT CORRESPONDENT: You've seen these disclaimers hundreds times before. Now, a shocking report by the Hollywood reporter alleges that the American Humane Association's trademark accreditation isn't always credible.
Take Life of Pi's tiger King for example. Despite his prowess and digital twin the publication says King nearly drowned while shooting ocean scene after becoming disoriented. In an internal e-mail obtained by the Hollywood reporter an AHA monitor on the set said quote "Last week we almost killed King in the water tank".
ROB FERBER, FRM ANIMAL CRUELTY PROSECTOR: This is to me one of the dirty dark secrets of Hollywood by not reporting these incidents by deciding on their own that they can deal with it internally and not brining it to law enforcement. They're complicit in this.
TURNER: The AHA responded telling CNN quote, "The e-mail of the employee in question led to an internal investigation and there was no evidence of any harm to the tiger as determined after multiple inquiries. She is no longer employed by the Association."
The movie studio disputed the claim that the tiger nearly drowned saying, "We take on-set safety very seriously". Animal rights groups, however, say this is a problem that has plagued the movie industry for years.
In 2012, while the stars of the Hobbit walked the red carpet, spectators line the streets not to cheer but to protest.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The Hobbit was monitored by the AHA and that goes to show that even when these films that use animals are being monitored. On just tragic death and injuries do still occur.
TURNER: But Hobbit Director Peter Jackson says, their disclaimer holds true.
PETER JACKSON, FILM DIRECTOR, PRODUCER AND SCREENWRITER: Over half the animals in this film are computer generated and there was no abuse and no maltreatment of animals on this film.
TURNER: And on HBO's TV Series Luck, charges of animal cruelty. Even though the AHA was present on set, the production was eventually canceled in 2012 after three horses died. HBO owned by CNN's parent company Time Warner released this statement saying, "While we maintained the highest safety standards possible, accidents unfortunately happen and it is impossible to guarantee they won't in the future."
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MORGAN: The AHA released a lengthy statement in response to Hollywood reporters saying in part the article paints a picture, it was completely unrecognizable to us or anyone who knows American Humane Association's work of allowing abuse or neglect to occur. We have a remarkably high safety record of 99.98 percent on set.
Well, joining me now is Gary Baum, he's the senior writer for the Hollywood Reporter who wrote the story.
I mean it's a compelling account. What do you say about their reaction? And they pretty well point blank say, massive over reaction, almost all of what they do is perfectly safe?
GARY BAUM, SENIOR WRITER, THE HOLLYWOOD REPORTER: What else are they going to say? We got busted? They take issue with a few, the equivalent with a few minor points which is I can quibble write back on. The larger issue still stand, the issues of transparency, oversight, responsibility it's just not there.
MORGAN: Where does the blame in your eyes lie? Is it with the AHA or is it with the studios or a bit of both?
BAUM: It's a bit of both. You know, the AHA is the one that's offering this no animals are harmed credit, they're the ones that need to stand behind it. They are now after this story has come out, coming up with this very lawyerly clever distinctions about what is and is not harmed. I think that most Americans, most of the public would say that when an animal is hurt or dies that's harm.
MORGAN: The Hollywood Reporter obviously a very prestigious magazine particularly here in Los Angeles has a lot of influence. What kind of reaction have you had from the Hollywood industry?
BAUM: I think people are fairly shocked that this is going on that this monitor service is not what it claims to be. You know, there have been, on the inside of the industry there have been worries and concerns about the AHA and that's something that I'd be in looking into a number of months ago and what I found unfortunately was deeper and wider than I expected.
MORGAN: Let's turn briefly to Alec Baldwin. Everyone's been talking about Alec Baldwin almost all the time, he's being let go, apparently mutual decision, although most people believed it was more MSNBC's and then his. So, his show's gone off for a few weeks over these alleged homophobic rant to the paparazzi. You know, I've read Alec Baldwin's record on things like gay rights and support of gay marriages. The guy is not homophobic, he obviously lost his temper with his paparazzi and said some stupid things which he contest some of it. How will Hollywood react to this? I mean, they love Alec Baldwin but this hit some pretty sore nerve with many people.
BAUM: Right. You know, I think that Hollywood's very familiar with Alec Baldwin outburst and I think this is just another bump in the road for him within that community. Whether the wider public will feel that way is to be determined.
MORGAN: Does it damage him n the long run? Or is it just Alec being Alec do you think?
BAUM: You know, I think it damages him certainly in a short run, I think the question is, you know, obviously he has this political aspirations, what will that do for those or down the line?
MORGAN: I mean, you made an interesting point and I thought which is that Martin Bashir who's a fellow Brit who's on air at MSNBC, he got into hot water of a comment he made attacking Sarah Palin over her analogy of slavery to modern day issues. He's still on air, even though most people found his comments reprehensible including many people at MSNBC. Alec Baldwin said his comments in a street where a paparazzi was trying to take pictures of his new baby and, you know, he says, they're different situations, are they? Can you draw that distinction?
BAUM: You know, I think that's an interesting point. I think that people feel as though they got the raw and uncensored Alec Baldwin. Question is, is that a voice that they want to trust every evening, arbitrating important issues on MSNBC.
MORGAN: Gary it's good to see you, it's a terrific scoop I recommend everyone's going to read the Hollywood Reporter, it's a really fascinating insight into the treatment of animals in Hollywood, a very important issue and I'm grateful to you for bringing into public light.
BAUM: Thanks for having me.
MORGAN: When we come back, one time Lord of the Rings Mike Tyson on the knockout punch game that's sweeping the country it's a terrific interview, I've got air in full tomorrow night.
MORGAN: Tomorrow night I sit down with Mike Tyson, the one-time undisputed heavy weight champion of the world. Everything's on the table, his highs, his lows, the drugs, the booze, his time behind bars, even that incident with Evander Holyfield's ear. Listen when he tells me about the sinister knockout game that's been spreading across the country.
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MIKE TYSON, FORMER UNDISPUTED HEAVYWEIGHT WORLD BOXING CHAMPION: It doesn't make any sense. It's a game to some people. I don't think it's cool. They're not hitting me. I saw one guy hit a woman -- hit a girl...
TYSON: ... from behind. And I don't...
MORGAN: Would you ever -- When you grew up from the streets, would you ever done something like that?
TYSON: Oh, yeah. You know, if I was a robber's feet, I'm robbing somebody here when I was a young kid. I've done something like that but this is just for fun. These guys -- these -- s just no purpose of doing that ...
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MORGAN: It was compelling, Mike Tyson. That's tomorrow night for the hour. That's all for us. Later tonight, AC 360 with John Berman filling in for Anderson Cooper starts right now.