Return to Transcripts main page

Piers Morgan Live

Pope Francis Becomes 'Time' Magazine's Person of the Year; Interview with Franklin Graham; Interview with Donald Trump; Interview with Mort Crim

Aired December 11, 2013 - 21:00   ET


PIERS MORGAN, CNN ANCHOR: This is PIERS MORGAN LIVE. Welcome to our viewers in the United States and around the world. Tonight, Miley Cyrus, Edward Snowden, and the pope. An unlikely triumvirate. The 76-year-old spiritual leader of billions beat out every other A-list (ph) of the world, famous or infamous, to become Time magazine's prestigious person of the year. I'll ask Franklin Graham, what America's evangelicals think of the pope, and about how his father, Billy Graham, is doing, after his call for prayer last night. Also, Donald Trump on the selfie seen around the world, on the Obama-Castro handshake, and his advice for the president on Obamacare.


DONALD TRUMP, CEO, TRUMP ENTERPRISES: You have to get it fixed. It's not fixed. It's very broken. There's no security. And frankly, a lot of people that are signing up don't have the insurance.


MORGAN: As man versus shark and when they even surprise you. And America's second favorite anchorman, not this guy, you know him, you love him on the big screen. Tonight, I'll talk to the man that made him what he is today.

MORT CRIM: Stay classy Piers Morgan.


MORGAN: I'm going to begin though with Breaking News tonight. Trouble on the international space station, NASA is getting back operations after finding a problem with the cooling system. The six- person crew are in danger at the moment but officials may decide that emergency space walk is needed.

Joining me now is CNN's John Zarrella on the phone.

John, it's (inaudible) to Davis and it's not the first time we've had to do prepare work of this nature, but how big a threat is it potentially? Can it get a lot worse pretty quickly?

JOHN ZARRELLA, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, probably not, Piers, you know, they have it under control. They do have two of these cooling pumps on the international space station. One of them this morning stopped working suddenly. They were able to get it restarted again but they're troubleshooting the issue and the problem is that they're not able to provide enough cooling for the entire space station now because the one that's been restarted is not working at 100 percent so they had to shutdown the non-critical systems in three of the modules on the station, the US harmony module, the European Columbus module and the Japanese Kibo module.

Now, you mentioned it had problems with this before. In fact, they did back in May. They had to replace a pump on the international space and these are on the outside of the space station so they require space walk to do it and the pump that was the replacement pump is the one that's now not working again.

So it certainly peaks onto the point where they might have to do another space walk to either replace this pump at three spares on the station. It could do that if it's be it necessary which would be called an emergency space walk. But right now NASA's saying, you know, the life support systems are working fine. The crew is not in any danger and they are getting their normal night sleep.

MORGAN: Obviously, we did see a huge success to the movie Gravity. Everyone has great interest in the space station again and they'll be fearing all sorts of things after watching that, so much to think.

But in reality, this kind of repair work is one of the big 14 repair things that they expect and anticipate, right or 14 different types of maintenance that they always assume may happen.

ZARRELLA: Yeah, there's no question about it. And, you know, they practiced for these contingencies repeatedly out in Houston, you know, in the giant water tank they have out there that stimulate, you know, gravity so they run through the simulation and they've done this repair before this replacement.

But it is certainly a critical item, a have to have that at those two cooling loops as they call them working in order to keep the station cool and to keep experiments running, all the scientific experiments which are not at any danger either at this point. Those freezers are all working, but it's absolutely critical that they either pick better or find a way to fix it without a space walk but certainly that is one of the main possibility. They might have to go out there and replace it.

MORGAN: John Zarrella, thank you very much, indeed.

Now, I want to turn to our Big Story, this is the man who's been called America's pastor Billy Graham. Joining me now is his son Franklin Graham, the President and CEO of Samaritan's Purse.

Welcome back to you Franklin. And let me start by just asking you how your father is he good out there, breathe (ph) prayed for him and he had this big celebration recently but he was taking sick shortly after that instead.

FRANKLIN GRAHAM, PRESIDENT & CEO, SAMARITAN'S PURSE: He was on -- November 7th which was his 95th birthday. We had a celebration about 900 people were in the room that night. And it was a wonderful evening and I think that was the best I've seen him in several years, the strongest articulate. But few days later, he got an infection and he's home and his vitals are good, Piers, but he's just extremely weaken. At 95, you don't have a lot of reserves to draw from.

So I know that he would appreciate, the family will appreciate if that people would pray for it.

MORGAN: You also released a video of your father's last prayer to the nation. Let's take a quick look at that.


BILLY GRAHAM: Countries in the great need of a spiritual awakening.

There have been times of (inaudible) as I've gone from city to city. And I've seen how far people have wandered from God.

Of all the place that I've seen and heard there's only message that can change peoples' lives and hearts.

There is a way if you come by the way of the cross.


MORGAN: It's extraordinary that the parallels really between your father's life and Nelson Mandela, very similar ages and we sadly lost Nelson Mandela last week. He knew him, didn't he? Your father? He actually corresponded with him.

FRANKLIN GRAHAM: They corresponded but they never -- not that they met (ph) personally but they did correspond. My father preached, I believe it's in '73 in South Africa but he would not go unless they gave permission for an integrated meeting. That is the first time that the South African government had agreed to that kind of meeting and it worked to be integrated my father said at that time. He felt that apartheid was doomed. And he always spoke out against it. He spoke out against segregation in this country.

MORGAN: Well actually we had a clip of your father inside Africa in 1973 doing exactly what you said, speaking out. Let's listen to this.


BILLY GRAHAM: Jesus was a man. He was human. He was not a white man. He was not a black man. He came from that part of the world that touches Africa and Asia and Europe and he probably had a brown skin. Christianity is not a white man's religion and don't let anybody ever tell you that it's white or black. Christ belongs to all people. He belongs to the whole world.


MORGAN: It's incredible watching your father in action like that and he's had such a far-reaching and such a long-term effect on the American people just as Mandela did on the South Africans. Did you see anybody who is anywhere near the mantel of your father to take up that kind of spiritual leadership in America?

FRANKLIN GRAHAM: I don't know but there's some great preachers in this country and some great men of God and I'm sure God will raise up somebody. My father is -- this is not a position that my father tried to attain. It wasn't something he lobbied for and worked for, it's just something that God did. And if you ever, Piers, if you ever see a turtle on a fence post you'll know that turtle did not get there by himself.

And my father has always felt that he was somewhat of a turtle on a fence post. He realizes that God put him in that position that he had all those years.

MORGAN: I've been spending the week talking to my sons about Mandela, explaining why he's legacy is so important. I would imagine if they asked me questions about your father. What would you think in a best way of articulating his legacy should be?

FRANKLIN GRAHAM: My father has preached the same message and that's God's Gospel. That God so loved the world that he gave his only begotten Son that whosoever believed within him, Piers should not perish but shall have everlasting life.

My father took this message of God's love to the world. He never changed that message, he never got off message, he's kept to the -- and it's God's message is the Gospel. And as the good news that God love sinners and, Piers, I'm a sinner. And the fact that God loves me in spite of my sin that I had to repent of my sin to tell God I'm sorry to turn from my sin then accept his gift of salvation which is Jesus Christ who took my sins to the cross, he died, shed his blood, and God raised his son to life. And I was 22, Piers, when I asked Christ to come into my heart to forgive me.

MORGAN: Fortunately, I am sin-free so I haven't had the same experience Franklin as you. I'm just kidding. Let's turn to Pope Francis, Time Magazine made him the man of the year. We've got the cover there. I was thrilled actually I almost though didn't get it and they gave it to a guy who really -- I'm a Catholic has really shaken up the Catholic Church right to its rafters really.

What would you father make of Pope Francis.

FRANKLIN GRAHAM: Well, I can't speak on behalf of my father but I appreciate the Pope's focus on the poor and then identifying with the poor. And I think my father would agree with that, but again I don't want to speak for him. But I do appreciate his voice for the poor.

MORGAN: He does seem a man of great humility, like your father, like Nelson Mandela. Let's turn to this Christmas box you have here. It's an amazing story. Tell me about what you do with these. These are the Samaritan's Purse as you call it.

FRANKLIN GRAHAM: We do -- with this year it's called Operation Christmas Child . We collect over $10 million this year going to 110 countries, got a 747 leaving tomorrow at the John F. Kennedy airport going to the Philippines. And these boxes are packed by families and they put all sort -- here's a little ...

MORGAN: Clothes and toys and toiletries and also (inaudible).

FRANKLIN GRAHAM: ... school supplies but the most important thing I asked people to do is pray. Pray for the children who's going to receive your box because I don't know but God does. And we know that God will hear the prayer of one righteous person. Can you imagine 10 million people praying for 10 million children, what God might do for the children of the world? And so this is just packed by families and children ...

MORGAN: Amazing.

FRANKLIN GRAHAM: ... all over the world and we'd give them to kids in places like the Philippines.

MORGAN: If anybody wants to help, you go to or and it's an amazing fair (ph) I congratulate you Franklin and you talked about prayer I'd like everyone to join in prayer for your father too.


MORGAN: Obviously he's struggling. He's 95, an incredible life. And I wish you all the very best.

FRANLIN GRAHAM: Thank you, sir.

MORGAN: And to you and your family with the holidays. Thanks for coming in.


MORGAN: Coming up tonight an incredible story of survival, man versus shark, and when we come back, a visit to Donald Trump talking shark's lairs and his 5th Avenue headquarters. And the question, I'll just had to ask him, will he throw his hat back in the ring and run for New York Governors as many things he made.


MORGAN: Donald Trump is fired up tonight of President Obama's controversial handshake with Raul Castro the Cuban President at Nelson Mandela's memorial service. And also the Obama selfie picture which got everybody talking as well and I'm joined by Donald Trump and in his luxurious 5th Avenue tower, welcome to you ...

TRUMP: Hi, Piers.

MORGAN: ...Donald. So what do you make of all this, the President in hot water on two counts. All over the papers today and the TV, for first of all this handshake, very deliberate with Raul Castro the Cuban President, are you supportive with that or are you against it? TRUMP: Well, you know, you shake hands with somebody but he always seems to bow to foreign leaders. Now I don't see any reason to bow in this case but he bows. I don't view it as very serious. He gave the wife a double kiss. That's the European version as you know, as you know better than anybody. But I don't make a big thing at it. There's certainly nothing wrong with shaking hands.

MORGAN: And the selfie picture with him and the Danish Prime Minister and the British Prime Minister?

TRUMP: Well, and his wife was not happy or she seemed like she wasn't too happy. And that was a tough picture because it is a funeral. Now, you can also say it's a celebration of a great life but it is nevertheless a funeral. And I guess he's taking a lot of heat on that.

MORGAN: To me, it's a little bit disrespectful but not something to get too animated about ...

TRUMP: I would agree with you.

MORGAN: ... unlike for example ObamaCare. So let's turn to the single most controversial aspect.

TRUMP: And by the way, you're right about that. That is much more serious.

MORGAN: Yeah, and it's been a disastrous rollout -- just from business point of view put me old business tycoon hat on, if he's going to carry on with it as he clearly is, what should he be doing to at least try and rescue the situation?

TRUMP: Well, it seems like the website really brought it to light how bad it all is. And the website's a disaster. And websites, I know a lot about websites. I've never spent $1.5 billion for a website neither is anyone else. It's this most expensive website ever done. And by the way not the most complex but certainly the most expensive but the website brought it to life.

You have to get it fixed. It's not fixed. It's very broken. There's no security. And frankly, a lot of people that is signing up don't have the insurance. They go to the hospital and they found out, "Guess what I don't have any insurance," so they go to the insurance companies.

And it's a serious problem. I think it's had a terrible impact on his legacy. It could continue onward. I think it's only going to get worst because so many people are losing their plans, 55 million people have lost the plan that they loved, a doctor that they loved. I think it's going to get worse.

Now, the website may get better and it may not get better but the plant itself is really being exposed. It's a disaster, 55 million people out -- they don't have it.

MORGAN: The new figure is out today, it show the total enrollment is 364,000. 1.9 million customers made it through the process but haven't yet chosen a plan. These are still very small numbers given the scale of people in America in total population. If he cancel ...

TRUMP: Yes. But, Piers, look at it differently. But 55 million are losing their plan and they're losing their doctor.

MORGAN: Was that more damaging to the Obama brand since he came on this big deal of "You can trust me. I won't be like the previous guys. You can trust me. I'll be transparent." And that repeated footage which really got to me as you ...

TRUMP: (inaudible) would ask...

MORGAN: ... was he that, "You can keep your plan and you can keep your doctor" turned out to be a complete falsehood?

TRUMP: Well, it was a lie. And I don't know. I know, they're trying to couch it differently but it was a lie. And it was a problem and it's a big problem for him. And I would imagine there's a lawsuit in this some place because, you know, if you look at pass -- it passed by one vote. So when it passes by one vote and even Democrats voted against it, what he said got people to approve ObamaCare. Democrats and frankly I don't think it would have ever been approved if they knew.

Now, the Democrats are running for the Hills. You have a '14 election coming up. So -- and I know so many of -- as you know, I know them all. They're running for the Hills. They are very, very concerned about ObamaCare. So it's interesting. But it was a lie. There's no question about that.

MORGAN: On a slightly positive note, employment is a five-year low and the stock market soaring to record heights. Are these genuine green shoots do you think in the economy? Putting -- Notwithstanding the politics of it all.

TRUMP: Well, the real unemployment is 13 to 15 maybe even 16 or 17 percent because so many people have given up looking for jobs. And as you know, in the new count they don't include that. So you're looking for job and then you give up and you are now -- you don't have a job and they don't include that. So what kind of an unemployment rate is that in 7 percent?

As far as the stock market is concerned, you know, we're all getting free money. I'm in the stock market. I was never stock market person but about three and a half years ago, I said, "I'm going to put a lot of money in the stock market because it almost has to get up and go up. And I look like a great genius.

Some friend of mine said, "You're a genius." And I said, "I'm not a genius." Although maybe I am. I hope I am. But ...

MORGAN: I was going to say, "Don't be too hasty here."

TRUMP: Well, I don't want to give that up so quickly. But I have made tremendous investments in the stock market all because I said a few years ago. I'm getting free money.

MORGAN: But only in the situation Donald where the very rich and successful elite perhaps in America are reveling in the current situation because money is cheaper there's plenty of it from this kind of thing that you want to do but for the vast majority of Americans, it's still very tough out there?

TRUMP: But you know, Piers, I'm a developer. I love cheap money. I've always loved cheap money. I guess the problem with this time, this term that we're talking about is that if you don't need money, if you're like loaded, the banks want to give you money at almost no interest. If you do need money -- in other words, you're a good developer, a businessman, you need money for business, put people to work, you can't get it.

So a person like me -- I mean I pay -- I've never paid interest rates like this in my life so low. So that's a good thing as far as I'm concerned but in terms of the country, is it a good thing, I can't answer that. I don't think it probably is too good.

MORGAN: What is a bad thing for America? This figures just come out about the level of students, accomplishments in America compared to the, you know, it's in the number one China, then Singapore, Hong Kong, Taiwan, South Korea. The U.S. down at 26th in Math, 21st in Science, I mean these are catastrophic figures really and an embarrassment to a great super power, what is going wrong with the American Education System, it means it's so far behind China.

TRUMP: Well and you have Finland and you have Norway and you have Sweden and the world just absolutely smiling at this country because we're not doing well. So, the system is wrong and some, you know, we can also maybe blame the students. Do the students have it? I don't know. Do they have it? It's very embarrassing, we're so far down on the totem pole, now we didn't used to be, we used to be one over the top. We were not the top but we were one of the top, now you look at all these countries and they're way, way ahead of us and that's a bad -- I'm a big education person, that's a really bad -- and so are you by the way. That's a really bad sign for the future.

MORGAN: Well the success of any nation going forward is always based around education.

TRUMP: So true.

MORGAN: And if you look at what China is doing, they are steam rolling ahead here, 1.3 billion people being educated in a better and better way, you know, it doesn't look good does it for America in 30 years time in terms of the world stage?

TRUMP: It's hard to believe, and if you look at what's happening with China and some -- and I've been talking about this for years what China is doing to this country, they are outsmarting us in a business sense every single step ...

MORGAN: That's admiring don't you. I mean, you have to admire the Chinese? TRUMP: You know, it's funny, in this building, I have the biggest bank in the world from China. I have other Chinese companies, I speak rough about China. I mean, I say a lot of stuff about -- they respect it, they love Trump, they want to be in Trump buildings because they respect what I say because they know I'm telling the truth. So, I'm not knocking China, I'm saying it's amazing the way our leaders can't pick it up.

You look at what China is doing to this country in terms of trade, in terms of the dollar which is killing us.

MORGAN: With them being very aggressive and let's play devil's advocate I don't blame them for being aggressive.

TRUMP: I don't either.

MORGAN: And they're backing it up with terrific education and so, the people I blame are the American politicians who are allowing all this to happen.

TRUMP: That's why they want to be in my buildings, they're not blaming me for saying it and I have many friends at the top levels of China and they can't believe they're getting away with it. So, I would agree with you, I blame the politicians, I blame the leadership of this country, they're taking our jobs, if you look at China and I'm not only talking about China, I'm talking about lots of other things. The reason I said Miami is doing so well is because of South America, it's not because of this country, it's because all of the South Americans come and they want to be in Miami and that's a little bit artificial.

You know, that's something that Miami has that other places don't have. So, it's very sad.

MORGAN: A quick question about the potential next Presidential Race in 2016 a new Quinnipiac University Poll, 42 would back Chris Christie if he ran, 41 percent would support Hilary Clinton, a McClatchy Marist Poll, 48 percent Christie, 45 Clinton. I mean neck and neck even now, if it turns out to be those two, it could well be, still it's going to be a very close race.

TRUMP: It's going to be a close race, it's going to be a tough race. It could be, people that you've never even heard of, I mean nobody heard a number of years ago, six years ago of Barack Obama, nobody even knew who he was and Hilary was supposed to get it and all of a sudden he came along and he won and it was close and it was tight but, you'll have to see what happens.

MORGAN: Let's take a short break Donald, when we come back we're going to talk about the Pope has been voted Time Magazine's Man of the Year. Let's talk about Billy Graham, well I know that you recently attended a party with him, I want to get your feelings on the great man, let's come back after this short break.



JAY LENO, AMERICAN STAND UP COMEDIAN, ACTOR, VOICE ACTOR, WRITER, PRODUCER AND TELEVISION HOST: On a radio interview, Kanye West said, he wants to be the Obama of clothing. That's what he said, he wants to be the Obama of clothing and to achieve his goal he's designing fashion nobody wants and offering it on a website that doesn't work. So, it should be fascinating.


MORGAN: Jay Leno there having a little dig at Kanye West and the President. And I'm back with my special guest, Donald Trump. Let's talk about first of all Time Magazine's Person of the Year, it's a prestigious thing and they've gone for Pope Francis. He is really shaking things up with the Catholic Church. Is he also, do you think showing great leadership? In other words for any institution is that what it needs?

TRUMP: I think he is so refreshing. He's so different, he really is a man of the people. I think he's doing a great -- and I think it was a great choice. I looked at the other characters who get it, but I though that was a great choice.

MORGAN: You were, you're still are very friendly with Billy Graham and I spoke to his son early on the show, he's obviously reaching near the end of his life now.

TRUMP: Sadly.

MORGAN: Yeah, very sadly, I know that you saw him recently at a big event to celebrate his life, what would be his great legacy, Billy Graham?

TRUMP: Well I think he's got a lot of great legacies. I think frankly, Franklin is the great legacy. I think Franklin Graham is a fantastic man. I got to know him very well. I was at Billy's recently at his birthday party, you probably read about it, everybody was there it was an amazing evening and Billy looked pretty good. He's 95 years old and he's got some difficulty but he looked pretty good. He is just a man who if you look so many years at the top and I guess one of the reasons I love Billy Graham is my father and mother used to love Billy Graham.

They'd sit back and they'd watch, there's just a certain humility that he's always had and just a special man. He's got a tremendous heart and to be with him on his 95th birthday, Piers was so wonderful I loved it.

MORGAN: If you look at Pope Francis, you look at Billy Graham, that humility's figures and also Nelson Mandela had the same clause he was one of the great man that we sadly lost recently. When you look at Mandela and I know that you had the honor of meeting him as I did, what do you make of him and the struggle that he came through?

TRUMP: Well it's an amazing story because to be in jail for like 27 years and to come out and be a man of not only humility but he sort of -- I was reading where during the inauguration, he had his jailer sitting on the front row and he was friendly to him. Well I just think it takes a special man. So, he was a special man and I've met him a number of times and liked him a lot and he was a very special guy and there's no question about him.

MORGAN: GM elected its first woman CEO Mary Barra at the age of 51. A pretty big deal for the auto industry but also for America isn't it? That a woman is being given this huge job.

TRUMP: I think having a woman as the head of General Motors and it's just -- she's supposed to be outstanding. You know, I have Cadillac, a great relationship with Cadillac, they sponsored the big golf tournament, it's a world golf championship at Doral and it is really a company that's doing so well.

Cadillac has done so well but General Motors has really, you know, the parent of Cadillac, they have done an amazing job over the last four or five years, so you got to give them a lot of credit. I think it's wonderful that you have a woman as the head of General Motors, sends out a good signal.

MORGAN: You have a very smart woman working for you, your daughter Ivanka, do you see young successful women now all over the place in your trade and do you think it's good thing for Americans to be more running top companies like this?

TRUMP: Well I think it's a great thing for America. Ivanka is exceptional as you know and you know very well the fact she started recommending you very strongly ...

MORGAN: Impeccable job.

TRUMP: You have to love Ivanka, but she is a very talented person. I have many, many talented women working for me, absolutely they're doing great and that's a great thing for the country.

MORGAN: Raising the minimum wage is a big issue at the moment and obviously you have the unemployment, a lot of poverty in America right now. A lot of people working and actually even after they do a whole day's work, whether at McDonalds or Walmart they still have no money left for their family to feed them there's something structurally wrong isn't it with the system?

Now are you in favor? You employ a lot of people, thousands of people, are you in favor of raising the minimum wage?

TRUMP: Well you don't want to do anything that's going to keep the incentive away for whether it's McDonalds that are expanding in this country. At the same time you have to let people live. You know I heard something the other day that was very interesting. Two minimum wages, one for young kids that are in high school and, you know, going to college and they're young and they want to look -- and another for people raising families. It's very complicated and you get away from free market but there's a lot of debate on right now minimum wage, it does create lots of problems however.

MORGAN: When you look at next year 2014, I mean a big year for America. What do you want to see happen?

TRUMP: We need leadership. We need people that can pull people together. You look at what's going on in Washington in particular, you need a group of people and obviously the one person, it has to pull everybody together. They're fighting and even the Dems are fighting with the Dems now and, you know, they're all of a sudden going wild. Whether it's ObamaCare or whatever, they were all afraid of it. So, they're fighting with each other. The Republicans obviously well-documented over the last couple of months, how they're fighting. Somebody has to be able to grab the bull by the horns and pull everybody together and if you don't do that, we're just going to keep falling as a country.

MORGAN: One thing I wanted to ask you, I interviewed Warren Buffett recently, I've got him to produce his wallet which had a great big spread of $100 bills. Do you carry your wallet and do you carry cash?

TRUMP: I don't carry a wallet, I have very little cash on me, I like to keep it that way. You know it's very sad. I go to a restaurant and almost every time they said, "Mr. Trump it's on me," the owner, "Mr. Trump it's on me, no charge Mr. Trump," no I never need cash. Now if I was ever in trouble where I needed like a meal I'd have to pay, so it's pretty unfair wouldn't you think?

MORGAN: Warren has sent one e-mail in his life, do you e-mail personally?

TRUMP: I don't do a lot of e-mail, I don't like e-mail. Every time there's an e-mail, you have problems in courts and ...

MORGAN: That's what he said, one e-mail and he ended up with (inaudible).

TRUMP: No I don't do them any either, I agree with him 100 percent. One of the smartest people I know, who's the head of I won't even mention his name but he had a lot of do with the whole thing with -- he made a fortune in e-mail but he doesn't use e-mail. Because he said, every time I see and use e-mail I end up in court. So, I'm not a big e-mail fan.

MORGAN: Do you use a cellphone?

TRUMP: I do.

MORGAN: Which mobile do you have?

TRUMP: Well I have Apple and I have Samsung and I have a lot of stock in Apple and I want them to do a bigger screen because I do like the bigger Samsung screen and so far they haven't been listening to me. I've been tweeting.

MORGAN: I know you have.

TRUMP: You might have seen it, do a larger screen because people like me, I like a larger screen ...

MORGAN: Is there really hope for Blackberry people like me?

TRUMP: You know I have friends that swear by Blackberry, like you. But I have friends that want Blackberry, they love the pad, they like the keypad better, and I understand that fully. But every time I look at Blackberry it's like a disaster but people that I know that have Blackberry they just never want to give it up. They are slowly giving it up unfortunately for them but you would think somebody would come along there is a spirit for Blackberry like no other.

MORGAN: I agree.

TRUMP: It doesn't seem to be working though.

MORGAN: I hope I can pull at that. Final question, there is a rumor that you might be running for Governor of New York? Any truth to that?

TRUMP: Well, New York like the country is in big trouble but I'll be making decisions after January, we'll see what happens.

MORGAN: Are you tempted?

TRUMP: You can straighten these things out, it wouldn't be hard to straighten New York out at, it wouldn't be so hard to straighten the country at. Lots of things could happen but I'll be really deciding what I do some time after January.

MORGAN: Donald always good to see you, have a great holiday.

TRUMP: Thank you very much.

MORGAN: Donald Trump, when we come back it's a man versus shark, an amazing story of survival and we'll talk to the man who survived.


MORGAN: Shark stories from coast to coast. In Northern California, a close call for a marine who caught a great white while fishing at Camp Pendleton. He pulled the shark out of the water just long enough for his wife to shoot this extraordinary video then released the young female shark back to the ocean. The marine wasn't hurt but a Florida man wasn't quite so lucky.

Bobby Baughman was attacked in the waters of Cocoa Beach and Bobby joins me now exclusively from his hospital bed at Health First Cape Canaveral Hospital who is recovering from surgery.

Bobby Baughman, looking at pretty dramatic pictures of another shark incident which ended happily, nobody got hurt. You weren't so lucky. Tell me about what happened to you.

BOBBY BAUGHMAN, SURVIVED SHARK ATTACK: You want the whole story and I was out searching for about two and a half hours. I have a brand new surfboard I just bought or I just been given actually by my friend and he owns a surf shop near in town called Cocoa Surf. I went out to surf for about two and a half hours. It was near in the end of my session and rode away until I've ended pop off the wave. I went underwater like it went down, the wave roll over top of me and I kicked off the bottom to come up to get to the surface.

As soon as my feet came up the bottom, I felt something grabbed me. I didn't know what it was at first. I thought it was like I startled something and my first instinct was like, you know, go limp I just scared something and it bit me out of fear, right? I mean, I was like in the mat. I was like in a fraction of a second when I thought that. And then as soon as I thought that and went limp for just a second, whatever I had that holding me started shaking. And that's when I realize that it was a shark. I could feel the teeth like in me. I work on a fishing boat so I could just tell what had holding me, it was definitely a shark.

And I was in about chest deep water. And he was kind of backing up falling away from me. So, I kind of do my balance off and I was -- I went into fight or flight mode and I was like -- I just thought real basic, right, if he keeps shaking on my foot, he's going to away the lower part of my foot. So, I went down underwater and he's mouth was across the top of my foot. And I, basically, grabbed his nose and tried to match how hard he was squeezing my foot with my hands just squeeze, and squeeze and squeeze as hard as I could. And he shook and let go and took off.

As soon as he let go, I went from fight mode to flight mode. And I was just out there as quick as I could off of my board. I had a little foamy wave come up behind me and I caught that immediately and paddled in. But about halfway in once I got him about a foot of water some -- it was kind of funny, there is a mother there just waiting in the water. She's smiling at me waving as a man in my belly and I'm waving like this at her yelling, "Go in, go in. I got bit by a shark." And she's smiling waving at me.

And by that time, I got up to her, she's still smiling and she finally heard me say I got bit by a shark. And that big smile just drop to, oh my God, she had two little kids, grab them each by the arm, pick them up out of the water. And she passed me running to the beach and she and her kids did settle them in the sand.

MORGAN: What kind of injuries have you sustained, Bobby. And what is the prognosis for a quick speed recovery?

BAUGHAM: When he grabbed me -- say, this was my foot and the shark grabbed me, the top teeth is like serrated knives and the lower teeth, they're like forks. So, basically lock into the bottom of my foot, started shaking and that top jaw, to side down to the top of my foot and got into ligaments and stuff. I mean, that's why I have to grab him and get him off me because he was -- I knew he's going to work his way through my foot. But, I got my foot back, good

MORGAN: We're looking at pictures of you when your rescuers now, I've seen it. It's obviously a happy ending to what was a very scary incident.

Bobby, thank you so much for joining me. Good luck with your recovery. It must be mad to go back. So, I think -- then I guess that's all part of the fun. Thank you for joining me.

BAUGHMAN: Thank you very much and nice talking to you.

MORGAN: And you. Take care.

Coming up he's America's favorite anchorman, well, second favorite, an inspiration for the ever classy, Ron Burgundy, wait until he meet the real anchorman. A new Ron is based (ph). He's here next.



UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We're starting at 24-hour news channel and we want you.

WILL FERREL, ACTOR: I'm going to do the things that God put Ron Burgundy on this earth to do at salon quality hair and read the news.


MORGAN: Will Ferrell in the upcoming Anchorman 2 The Legend Continues and Ron Burgundy has a gift from the comedy gods almost too good to be true, but he is in fact true based on a very real broadcaster author and kind of a big deal himself. He's Mort Crim and he's In the Chair with me tonight.

Mort Crim. it is an absolute honor to talk to the man who inspired my favorite ever movie comedy character. Welcome to you.

MORT CRIM, BROADCAST JOURNALIST: Well, I think that's flattering, I think. I don't have salon quality hair, in fact, I've got very little these days, but I'm grateful to what I've got.

MORGAN: When you found out that Will Ferrell, you've seen a documentary just to put into perspective for the viewers about Jessica Savitch who've been your former female co-star. And she died in tragic circumstances, she drowned in a car accident.

He watched the documentary about this and saw that you have had this kind of very edgy relationship with her on-screen and so on. And that's when he made contact with you. What did you feel when you first heard about this?

CRIM: Well, I was a bit perplexed and surprised until I read the history of how he came about this decision to do the film.

People have asked me if I'm offended by the fact that this blow hard, air head, egotistical, self-absorbed character was based on me and I said, you know, I used to enjoy The Mary Tyler Moore Show immensely. Ted Baxter was, you know, was a character and certainly bore no resemblance to the anchor people that I know and I don't believe to myself.

But I thought it was good satire, I thought it was good parity, and that's exactly what anchorman is. And so, I now only don't take offense, but I laugh as hard as anyone, because it's -- I tell my friends, it's not a documentary. If it were a documentary, I might be offended, but it's a comedy and I think that they do it very well.

And if you read the history of how he came to do this movie and how he and his co-writer came to create this character in the situation, they weren't necessarily building the character of Ron Burgundy on Mort Crim. What they were doing was taking a situation that existed at that time, when the female anchor was young -- a female anchor was brought into -- sit at the anchor desk with more experienced older male anchors and that did create some tension.

And I want to set the record straight on the show for this thing. I don't think it was chauvinism in terms of gender so much as it was a feeling and maybe there is a little arrogance here. But the feeling that we were superior, we had earned our stripes. We had paid our dues. We had worked in the field. I've been a network correspondent for five years. I had about 15 to 20 years experience in the business.

Vince Leonard, my senior partner, he had been in the business for 35 years. And now, all of a sudden, they're bringing in this young, good-looking woman from Texas who is only 25 years old and they're giving her a major seat, a prime anchor position in a major market. And so, I think the antagonism that we may have felt or the resistance was not so much because it was a woman coming in but because it was somebody that we didn't feel had earned the position.

Now, she did earned it and after she got there, she worked hard, she was -- turned out to be a good reporter, a fine writer, a good interviewer and, you know, proved that she did have the capacity to sit in that chair and to do it with grace and skill.

MORGAN: Well, let's take a little look at the clip from the Savitch documentary. This is quite fascinating. Let's watch this.


CRIM: Good evening, I'm Mort Crim with Jessica Savitch.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: They're putting that broad on the 11:00 news. That's going to kill us.

CRIM: Well, you have to understand that I was a typical traditional 1972 male chauvinist anchor. And I like women, but I wasn't sure that they're place was necessarily sitting beside me on an anchor set.

FERREL: I mean, come on, Ed, it's bull crap. Don't get me wrong. I love the ladies. I mean they rev my engine, but they don't belong in the news room.


MORGAN: And Mort, that means he picked you up on the detail, but you did appear to be a self-confessed chauvinist there. So your denial ...

CRIM: Yes. I do.

MORGAN: ... doesn't carry much credit, isn't it?

CRIM: As presidents and senators often say, "I misspoke", I think the choice of the word chauvinist did not really accurately reflect what was going on. I really don't think that -- as I reflect back on it, I don't think the antagonism was toward the idea of a woman coming in.

My daughter would be the first to tell you that I raised her to believe that a woman can do anything she wants to do and I think I was very much a feminist all -- going all the way back. So I think I used the wrong word when I said I was a typical male chauvinist. I was a typical member of the old boy's club. And it had always been males who had worked in the news, so there was probably a little bit of that but as I've said, I think most of it related to the fact, we just didn't feel she had paid her dues.

And as evidence of that was a fact that once she did come in and proved herself to be a hardworking reporter and to be able to do the job as well as any man and perhaps worked harder than most of us, she was totally and fully accepted. And in fact, the bond, the friendship became so strong between all of us on that anchor team that after her tragic death, her mother and her sister called and said, "We would like you to deliver the eulogy at her funeral because we think that's what Jess would have wanted."

MORGAN: Well you're not the first person to be pilloried in this manner. Mort, you'd be pleased to hear. Let's take a look a clip here from SNL.


TARAN KILLAM, ACTOR: I am Piers Morgan, the tiny little full of news. I'd like to remind everyone that I won the apprentice.

Who lied about what? Who's still hiding the truth? And who -- what -- who -- who -- what --who.


MORGAN: You see, I'm pretending to laugh. But really inside, Mort, it's killing me. I just don't talk that much.

CRIM: No, it's not. No, it's not. I've watched you enough to know you got a great sense of humor. So I don't think you're taking that personally.

MORGAN: I mean -- let me -- putting aside any of the background to this, well, I can tell you as an absolutely fact, is that Ron Burgundy to me is one of the gods of movie history and indeed of anchormen and news people, generally, because I just think he is a wonderfully inspiring character. He never gives up. He keeps going. Were you like that? Were you a guy that just never gave up on a good story?

CRIM: I was pretty persistent. Yes. I think perseverance was and is one of my qualities. Yes. My wife would say so. MORGAN: You know, I'm told that you've been invited to the world premiere of the sequel. Is that right?

CRIM: Yes. It will be a really a great opportunity for Will Ferrell to meet me.

MORGAN: And have you ever used the words and I want you to be honest here because obviously you had a slight amnesia in fact with the chauvinism claims. Let's try it again.

CRIM: Yes. Yes.

MORGAN: Have you ever used the words, "Stay classy San Diego"?

CRIM: Only in a few interviews this week but not -- no.

MORGAN: Would you mind ...

CRIM: No, I've not.

MORGAN: Would you mind just humoring me more and just ending this interview with those immortal words as if you were Ron Burgundy?

CRIM: Well, of course. It's your show. I'll do whatever you want.

MORGAN: Whenever you're ready.

CRIM: Stay classy San Diego.

MORGAN: Mort Crim, you are ...

CRIM: And you stay classy, Piers.

MORGAN: Oh, I'll try. It's very difficult as you know but I will try. Mort Crim, it's been a delight talking to you. You're a great sport. And I can't think of ...

CRIM: Thank you.

MORGAN: ... final run (ph). I wish I've been -- well, I probably was in my own way. I'm part of being the British version of "Anchorman" and not in the way I enjoyed it, but now, Mort Crim, thank you very much indeed.

CRIM: My pleasure.

MORGAN: We'll be right back.


MORGAN: Finally, best selling author Tony Robbins, his promise to the family of the Newtown victims this Friday night. And that's all for us tonight. AC 360 starts now.