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Piers Morgan Live
Interview with Ann Coulter; Interview with Sharon and Ozzy Osbourne
Aired January 22, 2014 - 21:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
PIERS MORGAN, CNN HOST: This is Piers Morgan Live. Welcome to our viewers in the United States and around the world.
Tonight, speak of the devil, not Ann Coulter, the rock star they called the "Prince of Darkness" and the woman who scares the hell out of the Democrats. There she is. So interchangeable really, aren't they? And some Republicans too. Ann Coulter is here tonight. I wonder what she thinks at Glenn Beck's bombshell that he may have destroyed America and Chris Christie's future and New York's ultraliberal new mayor.
Plus, pot and other stuff.
Plus, the return of the Prince of Darkness, the other one. The one and only Ozzy Osbourne still rocking hard at the age of, believe it or not, 65.
Ozzy will be joined by his wife Sharon and they'll be talking very frankly about what happened that nearly drove them apart last year.
I'm going to start with our Big Story which is the other prince of darkness. This is a joke I can keep returning because she always got a laugh. The one with big opinions about -- just about everything most of them really not really required but she gives to them anyway. Ann Coulter joins me now. How are you?
ANN COULTER, AUTHOR, "NEVER TRUST A LIBERAL OVER THREE": Fine. Thank you. And you?
MORGAN: I should plug your book because otherwise there isn't any reason you have to come out, isn't it?
COULTER: Yes. Exactly. Thank you.
MORGAN: So it's "Never Trust A Liberal Over 3" best-selling author obviously.
Let's get into this, I find this fascinating. Glenn Beck said this on some show. I'm not sure who she is. Megyn or somebody on Fox.
COULTER: Megyn Kelly, she is huge and you don't know who she is.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) GLENN BECK, THE BLAZE FOUNDER AND CHAIRMAN: Go back and be more uniting in my language because I think I played a role unfortunately in helping tear the country apart and it's not who we are.
Now I look back and I realize if we could've talked about the uniting principles a little bit more instead of just the problems, I think I would look back on it a little more fondly.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MORGAN: There we are. A great Right Wing pundit in America finally admitting that he has, his words not mine, torn this country apart with his partisan rhetoric. You're another one, the female Glenn Beck.
COULTER: I'm not the female Glenn Beck. In fact, I was just going to tell you, I think I agree with him. He should be more like me. A uniter.
MORGAN: A uniter.
COULTER: Yeah. That's what I am.
MORGAN: How can you say that with a straight face?
COULTER: I am a uniter. You're a divider.
MORGAN: You're not a uniter. You're a great polarizer.
COULTER: You're calling me the devil and you say I'm the one who ...
MORGAN: I'm not -- When I tweet that you're appearing on the show. All hell breaks loose.
COULTER: Did you get the tweeted picture?
MORGAN: But finally it explodes.
COULTER: Hey. I went shooting last week and my -- one of my shooting partners sent a picture of us to you.
MORGAN: I saw that you have big guns. I was very happy for you. But let me come to that ...
COULTER: Yeah. I am too.
MORGAN: ... that's amazing.
Let's talk seriously though. About the polarization of political debate in America because Glenn Beck was quite bereaved I thought to say what he said.
Ann, if I'm being self reflector, it doesn't happen very often but I may as well throw it out there. Yeah, we've mentioned guns and when I've done the guns debate, I can tell that when I get over angry and get a little bit abusive to the gun people that it actually doesn't help the debate. That actually all it does is intensify the polarization and it means any kind of compromise becomes less likely.
I mean, do you like Glenn Beck? Looking back on some of the stuff he said and thought? Maybe I could've cared in there in a bit just calm things a bit and been less polarizing?
COULTER: I was definitely too nice to Hillary Clinton. I think I was overly enthusiastic about Chris Christie without waiting to hear his amnesty position.
MORGAN: But you never supported Chris Christie?
COULTER: No. I was the last marcher Right Winger to be supporting him and then he came out for amnesty.
MORGAN: What do you regret there? I mean do you have feelings like Glenn Beck?
COULTER: I just told you.
MORGAN: You're not bereaved. They're not proper regret. Are there regrets you have gone harder? Are there any times you've gone too far?
COULTER: No. Of course not.
MORGAN: Every single viewer watching this knows you've gone too far.
COULTER: No I haven't.
MORGAN: You don't think you've ever gone too far?
COULTER: No. No. No.
MORGAN: Not a single regret about anything you've every said?
COULTER: In public? About politics? Absolutely 100 percent not unless you're going to go back to when I was 14 and briefly libertarian.
MORGAN: God. I can imagine, the horror of you as a young libertarian.
COULTER: But then I turned 15 and it was gone.
MORGAN: Do you have any empathy about the whole Glenn Beck says? You're getting your own, you know, refusal to accept any of the responsibility, but ...
COULTER: I told you I'm a uniter. I think it's fantastic that he's going to try to be more like me.
MORGAN: But he's not going to be like you. He's a bit complete opposite to you. He actually wants to be -- it sounds to me ...
COULTER: Look, I don't know what he's talking about ...
MORGAN: ... less divisive.
COULTER: ... and neither do you so we're talking about obstructions that if he could -- if we knew what he would say. Look, right here, I shouldn't have said that. I could say I agree or I disagree but I don't know. And the abstract -- I do his radio show, I do his TV show, I think it's funny, we disagree about some things. He's been a little tough on me. And, Glenn, I think you should take that back.
MORGAN: But what do you say -- let's try to be serious for a moment, right?
COULTER: I am being totally ...
MORGAN: You're not. You're being increasingly divisive which is ...
COULTER: I am not being divisive.
MORGAN: ... part of the problem, right?
COULTER: I am not -- you're part of the problem. I am ...
MORGAN: I am happy to be part of the problem
COULTER: ... the solution.
MORGAN: You're never going to be the solution to anything. What he's saying is, "Look, the problem with political debate in Washington and America right now is that on almost every hot issue both sides take such polarizing positions.
COULTER: No. No. No. I know. I know. I know what you're saying ...
MORGAN: That compromise is never possible.
COULTER: ... but look. I'll answer you seriously here. There are serious disagreements about things, without getting into the details because I know you're getting hot and bothered and yelling at me.
There's guns. There's abortion. We disagree. That is going to be a problem. It almost has a lot of common (ph) -- this very day if he came out to a day going through back, you know, 50 years to see how Liberals describe their opponents and Conservatives describe their opponents and it is absolutely from the Left you get the hatred and the claim of an evil heart because as he said and I think there is something to this, Liberals always feel like we are doing the Lord's work and anyone who is against us is not just mistaken but as an evil bad person and he went through quote, matching quote, matching quote. And you can bring it right up to the ...
MORGAN: But I agree with you and I also think that when people have other thoughts on the debate as the Roger Ailes book and so on about Fox's political partisanship if you like. There's nothing that Fox does that MSNBC hasn't been doing in the last three weeks about Chris Christie. I mean is it almost exactly the same thing, isn't it? COULTER: Well, no. I got to say, I mean I watch -- I don't have a job so all I do is watch TV. If you watch no station but MSNBC, you have no idea what they're talking about on Fox. On Fox, I promise you, they're reporting the Chris Christie scandal maybe not 24 hours a day like the 9/11 attack.
But look, one of the biggest scandals to really harm a Republican presidential candidate you want to hear them but when George Bush first ran and he came out. It was a matter days before the election that he had had a drunk driving arrest and weirdly enough for driving too slowly up in Maine home from a country club one time with his parents in the car.
In any event, OK, who broke that story and it hurt him. They looked at the polls. That story hurt George Bush in the 2000 presidential election. Who broke it? Fox News.
MORGAN: What's your point?
COULTER: My point is you're never going to get a scandal against the Democrat broken by MSNBC. You're never going to get an articulate Conservative on MSNBC. They are very articulate Liberals making the best case on Fox News. You know what they're talking about on the other stations, it's just not a close set of only Liberals. You're allowed to hear Conservatives in Fox.
MORGAN: What do you think of the Chris Christie scandal so far?
COULTER: I think it's the most boring scandal of my entire life. They're actually talking about Northern New Jersey traffic patterns? You know, if we're going to talk about a highway could it be the Pacific Coast highway? Can it be, you know, the road up to Ithaca, New York? Oh, my gosh, I can't watch my favorite ...
MORGAN: You don't think that deliberately causing traffic mayhem around the busiest bridge in the world ...
COULTER: Look, I have ...
MORGAN: ... potentially being the emergency services couldn't get to the elderly or young children ...
COULTER: First, let me clarify ...
MORGAN: ... is not a very serious story?
COULTER: That I am massively opposed to Chris Christie because he had his temporary sent an appointee, vote for amnesty. I don't think he cares about the country. I think he cares about his Wall Street friends, he just recently then pushes through in-state tuition for illegal aliens. I've no interest in defending him.
And by the way, this idea that he's a bully is preposterous. He's a bully only to fellow Republicans so ha-ha not a lot of them defending him now. Maybe he can call his pal Mark Zuckerberg or his old good pal Andrew Cuomo will come out to defend him. Yet and still the one thing I need to say about this scandal is if you've ever driven in from New Jersey across the George Washington Bridge, you can't get off and go to Fort Lee. It funnels you straight into the bridge. So I just -- I'm not disputing that it was political retaliation but the story does not make sense. It's like saying, "I'm ...
MORGAN: How does it help the Republicans if ...
COULTER: Wait. But just somebody needs to explain. This does not retaliate against the people of Fort Lee. You can't get off onto Fort Lee. The people being punished are probably Republicans coming to jobs in New York City. It's all of the travelers going across the George Washington Bridge. That stuff doesn't make sense.
MORGAN: Well, it backs up into Fort Lee but let's ...
COULTER: No it doesn't. You can't get off.
MORGAN: You're the only person in the world that has said that.
COULTER: Well, that often happens and you'll ...
MORGAN: Yes. And you're usually wrong.
COULTER: ... find that Ann is right.
MORGAN: That's the point.
COULTER: Only on one time.
MORGAN: Let's ...
COULTER: Ann's always right.
MORGAN: Let's talk wider about the GOP position here because Chris Christie to many people is the most electable if you're outside of those parties of all the potential GOP candidates. Here he is being brought down not least by the silent, deafening silence, from his own party who still haven't forgiven him for what happened with Romney.
Is that helpful to the GOP's chances of beating Hillary Clinton if she runs in 2016?
COULTER: I don't think he was electable. And by the way historically the candidates, the mainstream media, have told us are the most electable George Bush Sr., Bob Dole, John McCain have been big fat losers and the ones they tell us are we hope they ran that Ronald Reagan. They're our landslide winners.
So, you know, electable -- it depends on, that doesn't mean there's no such thing as electable. It kind of drives me crazy. I've been making this argument for years and I think some Conservatives have picked that up to make the argument that anyone even if I say someone is more electable. Well that must mean he's unelectable. Now, look who's talking if the New York Times tells you a candidate is electable, don't take advice from your enemies. That doesn't mean there's not a quality called electable.
But I don't think Christie was that electable other than the facts that he probably would have been the most liberal candidate running in a primary. And when I think -- when I close my eyes and think of everyone who might run for president is Republican maybe -- I mean maybe that's how he would have gone through but I think he ...
MORGAN: But is that -- this part of the problem is the system. It means that when a GOP nominee runs in those early primaries they face. They've got almost no chance of winning if they are even remotely moderate. I mean they can't.
COULTER: Are we talking about electable or are we talking about moderate? Because I don't think moderate is our most electable.
Look, what we want is principles Conservative with such a high IQ that when the mainstream media is torturing you, you are still being articulate. I think of Ted Cruz and Mike Lee and a few others. We have them out there. We have some terrific candidates coming up.
Christie, look, he was good going after some public school teachers. But other than that, did you see his speech at the Republican nationally? And I was like flew in just for that speech. And, oh my gosh it was the most boring speech I've seen in my entire lifetime. We have to hear about his kids in soccer games and the state of the state of New Jersey? What? You're supposed to be our street fighter attack -- attack Obama for us.
MORGAN: We'll, he got a chance to that which is what he loved to do, because we're talking about President Obama about drugs and about racism and anything else you want to spew about.
COULTER: I am not spewing you are spewing. I am ...
MORGAN: I've stayed quite calm so far. There's plenty of time.
COULTER: I wish I'd rally up.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
MORGAN: Back with me now is Ann Coulter, author of "Never Trust A Liberal Over 3 Especially A Republican". The real prince of darkness, the real devil Ozzy Osbourne comes a bit later to speak with us.
COULTER: Speaking of angry divisive rhetoric.
MORGAN: Let's talk about drugs and what is your view?
President Obama told The New Yorker this week. "As I've been well documented, I smoke pot as kid. I view it as bad habit and advice not very different from the cigarette that smoke as a young person after a big chunk of my adult life. I don't think it's more dangerous than alcohol." Spot the big debate, pot's been in the news a lot recently. Several states now legalize it for recreational use. Thoughts?
COULTER: I'm totally against the legalization of pot and not one of these it should be legal for adults but not for kid.
Look, for one thing its illegal now and kids if you need it. I've never heard of anyone having any trouble getting it. But if it becomes legal, people will use it a lot more. I mean and we do have we do ...
MORGAN: But the arguments is that there are ...
COULTER: Know about this.
MORGAN: ... million people incarcerated for pot smoking. When it is scientifically proven to be no more dangerous than alcohol suggest.
COULTER: Absolutely not true. But ...
MORGAN: But it is true.
COULTER: I'm going to take one at a time here.
MORGAN: Which word isn't true in all that is said?
COULTER: During -- well I'm going through it.
MORGAN: All right, so that isn't true. What isn't true?
COULTER: First.
MORGAN: What part of the word he said is not true?
COULTER: That ...
MORGAN: The number of people incarcerated? Or the fact that it's no more dangerous scientifically?
COULTER: The incarceration figures is -- are ridiculous because 90 percent of those are plea bargain, they catch the guys with six kilos of heroin will plea bargain you down to pot.
MORGAN: 90 percent of all the people.
COULTER: No, I just made that up.
MORGAN: You just completely invented that.
COULTER: No. But the point is most cases are plea bargain.
MORGAN: You obviously invent statements like that to denigrate my perfectly sound argument.
COULTER: It was a hyperbolic statement. Most people in prison are there as a result of plea bargains because they were caught dead to rights, here we plea you down. So that is irrelevant anyway. Pot is so much more worst than alcohol, I mean if you take out.
MORGAN: It's not though. It's not.
COULTER: As I was saying.
MORGAN: Sanjay Gupta did a brilliant documentary.
COULTER: Before you keep interrupting me.
MORGAN: Sanjay Gupta who is a ...
COULTER: It's made offensively worse.
MORGAN: ... a nonpartisan, brilliant doctor did a brilliant documentary ...
COULTER: No, no.
MORGAN: ... scientifically proving there is absolutely no evidence that cannabis is any worse ...
COULTER: Well I suppose it depends what you mean by ...
MORGAN: ... than alcohol so why is it illegal and cannabis ...
COULTER: Well, I'm trying to answer but soon as I answer ...
MORGAN: ... and cigarettes than alcohol.
COULTER: ... you're going to interrupt me and say no it's not and it's not it's not.
MORGAN: Why do you keep saying that's untrue and not explain why?
COULTER: And that -- well I keep trying to when you keep interrupting.
MORGAN: Well, go on.
COULTER: Now, I'm going to explain now. So don't interrupt. Look, the sole purpose for smoking pot or eating a pop brownie is to get high. That is not true with alcohol.
MORGAN: Yes it is.
COULTER: We both enjoy. Well maybe you're a 14-year-old and going ...
MORGAN: Everybody drinks alcohol to get slightly higher than when they start drinking it. Truly. It's a part of drinking alcohol.
COULTER: And absolutely I have done TV after during so I bet you, you have to.
MORGAN: You have? Are you intoxicated now?
COULTER: I'm drunk right now.
MORGAN: That explains a lot of things. Have you ever smoked pot?
COULTER: Wait. I'm -- would you please let me finish once sentence, Piers Morgan.
MORGAN: I'm not taking you -- but you're rambling.
COULTER: People enjoy wine. They drink wine for a purpose. They will buy this to $800 bottle of wine perhaps you have a warm feeling. It does not you can tell if somebody's been taking pot. Their eyes are red. They giggle at everything. And by the way, they're incapable of carrying on the normal function ...
MORGAN: Have you ever smoked pot?
COULTER: No, I haven't.
MORGAN: Never in your life?
COULTER: Almost none of my friends have because their athletes.
MORGAN: So do you know what it -- what it does.
COULTER: Because I'm around potheads. One of -- many of my best friends are potheads.
MORGAN: Really? How many potheads do you know?
COULTER: And interrogate (ph) a lot of them -- well look potheads can still get the pot they're probably self medicating. But the more people who take it and if it is made legal, vastly more people will take it and it will be a disaster for commerce.
MORGAN: Why, why for commerce?
COULTER: Because potheads are incapable of following simple instructions and getting a job done. I used to carry around at my sole arguments against pot legalization.
MORGAN: But it's like saying alcoholic.
COULTER: As I was saying ...
MORGAN: ... have a drain on the economy.
COULTER: To pick up on the middle of the sentence so I was just on before you interrupted me.
MORGAN: But would be mean by pothead?
COULTER: Was when I move to a new place in California and there was a pool and the pool guy didn't, you know, I come back then it's four feet down it's color covered with green mold. And I called him up, he was a pothead. I was there that day so I took three pictures and hence forth that was my argument and I happened at my ...
MORGAN: Wait a minute. Let me try and spot the stream of consciousness.
COULTER: You can't get anything done with a pothead what we need to do is encourage people.
MORGAN: What do you mean by a pothead?
COULTER: Everyone knows what a pothead is.
MORGAN: What is it mean?
COULTER: Its' not smoking pot one time.
MORGAN: So how much are you assuming a pothead takes?
COULTER: Enough. Enough so that it can be made fun of on TV by Brad Pitt in this movie.
MORGAN: So like a heavy drinker or a heavy smoker?
COULTER: No heavy smokers work all night and then die young saving the Social Security System money. We -- And for commerce, commercial purposes for the purposes of the good of the country we ought to encourage Americans to smoke like mad. They'd be incredibly productive and then they die young and not have long lingering deaths.
Potheads, no, I'm going to be paying for their food, housing, now for they're health care apparently because they can't perform any useful jobs can you imagine? If you know ...
MORGAN: But the biggest majority of people -- that the vast majority of people that take marijuana on a recreational basis are not by your definition potheads.
COULTER: The point in building...
MORGAN: In the same way that most people who drink alcohol are not alcoholic. So, heavy drinkers are the problem.
COULTER: But once the cat is out in the bag, you can't put it back in and that was the problem...
MORGAN: Yes. But here's a bit -- but the issue is not that.
COULTER: Again, to pick up where I was in the middle of my sentence, but during prohibition ...
MORGAN: The issue is not with that, isn't it? The issue is why do we treat it...
COULTER: ... every alcohol related-disease, cirrhosis of the liver, accidents as a result of alcohol went down precipitously. It will go up. We will have lot -- this is how many potheads we have when it's illegal.
MORGAN: Nobody has ...
COULTER: I think that's just about enough.
MORGAN: Let me ask you. Nobody has ever overdosed on cannabis. Did you know that?
COULTER: So what? They can't perform daily functions. They're going to be on my tax bill.
MORGAN: Do you accept that people die of smoking? You accept that people can overdose on too much alcohol?
COULTER: Well, everything dies eventually.
MORGAN: That's your answer.
COULTER: No. But just say people die of smoking, what is considered a smoking death is any heart attack is considered a smoking death.
MORGAN: The point is that the argument is that alcohol ...
COULTER: That's a true facts, by the way. It doesn't ...
MORGAN: ... that heavy consumption of alcohol...
COULTER: ... someone who would never smokes will be considered a smoking death...
MORGAN: Heavy consumption of alcohol or heavy consumption of cigarette is more dangerous to your health than cannabis.
COULTER: No, it isn't. Alcohol is good for you. You take out the category -- have you been reading with Science Times. The study after study, alcohol is good for you. You should have a glass a day.
MORGAN: We'll have a glass after the show. We'll test your theory.
COULTER: Or two. No. It's the truth. Alcohol is good for you. Pot is not good for you when in fact it is very cancerous. Now, they're getting these young kids coming in, they're having heart attacks at very young age. And it's because they're potheads.
MORGAN: At that should be ...
COULTER: And by the way, at least we'll save me money if they just go ahead and die. But they rarely just go ahead and die.
MORGAN: How humane of you. Let's move on.
President Obama said in The New Yorker was talking about race and he said, "There's no doubt that some folks who just really dislike me because they don't like the idea of a black president. Now, the flip side of it is there are some black folks and maybe some white folks that give me the benefit of a doubt precisely because I am a black president." Is he right?
COULTER: Yeah.
MORGAN: You wouldn't take issue with that?
COULTER: No. I think a lot more people voted for him because his black than voted against him because his black, but that's quibbling. So, I don't mind asking. Now, let's go back to the pot statement.
MORGAN: No, we're done with pot statement.
COULTER: Also, if they smoke pots, before being fully developed, they become shrunken males with caved-in chest.
MORGAN: Oh don't be so ridiculous.
COULTER: They have no ambition, no work ethics ...
MORGAN: You've been ridiculous.
COULTER: ... no pulse unless you come out and try to take their pot away and then they are viciously violent ...
MORGAN: So, you would rather they would chain smoking and heavy drinking?
COULTER: I'm just saying, if you care about the productivity...
MORGAN: Would you love if they would do most of these things?
COULTER: If you care about the -- and what should -- how should laws be organized in the country? My guess is to make the country a better place, to make it more productive. To do that, laws should -- yes, and purge smoking, and one drink a day.
MORGAN: One drink a day.
COULTER: Because it's good for you.
MORGAN: So, if you're running the country, you would have one drink a day...
COULTER: No.
MORGAN: One cigarette or two?
COULTER: Some people are addict.
MORGAN: Hilarious.
COULTER: No.
MORGAN: Let's take another break.
COULTER: The addicts shouldn't have anything.
MORGAN: Let's take another break. Let's come back and talk Harvey Weinstein, the NRA, and guns. That should get you going.
COULTER: I'm just going to keep talking about pot.
MORGAN: I know you are.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK) MORGAN: I'm back now with Ann Coulter. She's been arguing with me throughout the commercial break. You'll be unsurprised to hear. I would say, most people on Twitter and send me your views at Piers Morgan have a suspicion you're actually on some form of pot or other narcotic right now which really explain your behavior.
COULTER: Yeah. That's hilarious but could we also point out that the first e-mail you read during the break was from your publicist telling you let her talk, huh?
MORGAN: She's from Texas. That's (inaudible)...
COULTER: Are you dissing the entire State of Texas right now?
MORGAN: I love Texas. Well, that's means you probably -- she agrees with what you say. Clearly, I have a different opinion.
COULTER: Well, most Americans do.
MORGAN: Let's...
COULTER: You know why? Because I'm a uniter.
MORGAN: Yes you are. A great uniter. That's exactly what Twitter's been saying ...
COULTER: Yes.
MORGAN: ... for the first 20 minutes. Let's watch this. Actually, it's an audio of Harvey Weinstein talking about gun movies. First of all, he talks to Howard Stern which is (inaudible) then he talked to me to clarify what he meant.
COULTER: Oh, please don't show me a video.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
HARVEY WEINSTEIN: I don't think we need guns in this country. And I hate it and I think the NRA is a disaster area and I'm going to actually make a movie. I shouldn't say this, but I'll tell it to you Howard, I'm going to make a movie with Meryl Streep and we're going to take this issue head on. And they are going to wish they weren't alive after I'm done with them.
I have to just choose movies, I mean, that aren't violent, you know, I mean, or as violent as they used to be. And I know for me personally, you know, I can't continue, you mean, to do that. So the chain starts here.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MORGAN: OK. So what do you make of Harvey Weinstein making a stand against the NRA?
COULTER: Does he know the NRA is not a person and cannot have been born. Speaking of who's stoned? No, I love it, he's made what? Hundreds of millions of billions dollars making massively violent movies but he's going to pocket that, and now, now he's against making violent movies. You know, this is like somebody who, you know, has been polluting for 30 years. We need stronger pollution laws ...
MORGAN: What is wrong with people?
COULTER: Yes, OK, give the money back.
MORGAN: What is wrong with a polluter finally realizing...
COULTER: Because it's utter hypocrisy. You've taken the money.
MORGAN: But he's accepting he hasn't been having the credit (ph).
COULTER: Give the money back then. You go live in a trailer park and I'll believe it.
MORGAN: That doesn't help the gun debate in America.
COULTER: That doesn't help. That would, but, I have one thing to tell.
MORGAN: Why would that make anything better?
COULTER: Because it's utter hypocrisy otherwise.
MORGAN: It's not hypocritical and to say I have realized some of the stuff I've done has been unhelpful.
COULTER: Yeah. And weirdly, I've made a hundreds of millions of dollars. But now ...
MORGAN: Do you -- at the start of this interview, you said I've never made a mistake. I don't regret anything. There's Harvey Weinstein saying, I think some of these violent movies I've made and others made have been unhelpful to the culture of gun violence in America and I'm going to stop making them. I think that's admirable isn't it? He reaches a sensible conclusion.
COULTER: First of all, I did not say I've never made a mistake, going to law school was a mistake. I said, in my public statements about political and public issues, there is nothing I regret or I think was divisive. Again, I am a uniter and I don't know how many different ways I can say, if you're going to go and do something, pollute water, be an insider trader, take the money, keep the money, and then come out and you want it bad for saying, "Now, I think I'll come out against insider trader."
MORGAN: Because I want to badge.
COULTER: Screw you. You're a hypocrite.
MORGAN: Well, maybe. But what he said was ...
COULTER: OK. Then give the money to victims of gun crimes.
MORGAN: He first said -- maybe he will.
COULTER: No he won't.
MORGAN: Maybe he will.
COULTER: You want to -- I'll bet you a $1,000, he doesn't.
MORGAN: OK. Because I'll make sure he does.
COULTER: No. And I mean every last penny.
MORGAN: So, if I said if you have a $1,000. OK. Let me finish this.
COULTER: Not some little donation like what (inaudible) did.
MORGAN: Let me put this to you. He specifically said, what had triggered this to him was what happened in Newtown. Here's what I find unpalatable and I'm going to try and be reasonable about this because I've been unreasonable occasionally.
COULTER: Because you want to have and put me afterwards.
MORGAN: No. I see it and I don't want to put you right after. So that's different. He ...
COULTER: I'm going to be armed.
MORGAN: There have been 35 separate school shootings in America since Newtown. Not a single changed any federal gun law in that time. Nobody on the progun side seems prepared to relent about anything, even background checks ...
COULTER: OK. Let me answer.
MORGAN: ... to try and reduce the level of gun violence. Why?
COULTER: You're absolutely 100 percent wrong. I've been writing about it, flagging it, and we'll see, and we'll see, and we'll see every one of those attacks. And by the way, you can see it on the timeline. If you read my gun columns, you'd notice, these are not caused by guns. They are caused by the mentally ill. Republicans need to pick up that issue since the deinstitutionalization movement in this country. I mean, that I have the numbers decade by decade. How many spree shootings they were like this. It was like one per decade...
MORGAN: How do you explain? Ann ...
COULTER: ... and the first 200 years -- let me finish this sentence. For the first 200 years of, you know, they're being humans here. It was in the '70s, it was right during the deinstitutionalization movement that suddenly you get these spree killings. And by the way, look at them. James Holmes in Aurora, Colorado, Jared Loughner in Arizona, Adam Lanza, the nut at Virginia Tech. They are all obviously paranoid schizophrenics, but we can't lock them up because of the ACLU. MORGAN: How do you explain ...
COULTER: ... and Republicans...
MORGAN: How do you explain that you have similar percentages of a population who are believed to have some form of mental illness in the UK, in Australia, in Japan, in Germany, and yet because there is no availability of guns, they do not have the gun violence?
COULTER: Look, people -- countries are different, demographics are different. I don't know what the mental health laws are. I can tell you that if you compare the white population to Belgium, we have less crime than the gun crime in Belgium.
MORGAN: But you don't think the...
COULTER: So we have a very...
MORGAN: ... prevalence of guns themselves had any ...
COULTER: I think we have a different country than other countries...
MORGAN: ... impacts on...
COULTER: ... and it's a very diverse country.
MORGAN: Should the culture try and be changed away from our reliance ...
COULTER: Obviously.
MORGAN: ... and dependence on guns and indeed glorifying your guns.
COULTER: Is it -- no. I mean, obviously, I think guns reduce gun crimes but the idea that when one spree killing after another is committed by a crazy person that using -- taking the guns away that's going to do something, it's like draining an ocean to find a ring you lost. That isn't going to help. The crazy people go out and kill people with swords, you know, the school -- this could -- murder of school children during school time. They took more lives than any other in this country's history was committed with the bomb by a crazy person.
MORGAN: So your answer to what happened at Newtown would be, unless I'm misreading your logic...
COULTER: What happened -- not -- yes.
MORGAN: But other than that, what about guns themselves? Nothing.
COULTER: Start issuing concealed carry permits to people who passed or do not have mental health issues or criminal record.
MORGAN: You would have more guns.
COULTER: Yes. MORGAN: OK. Ann Coulter, thank you very much. Good to see you.
Coming up, the secret Ozzy Osbourne kept from Sharon Osbourne had almost ended their 30-year marriage. They'll tell next. This is a quite remarkable interview.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
MORGAN: The iconic '70s hit "Paranoid" by Black Sabbath from biting the heads of live bats to a family of reality show the Ozzfest, the X Factor to The Talk. It's been a crazy train ride for Black Sabbath's Ozzy Osbourne and his wife Sharon, and just to lead new chapter, Sabbath earns three nominations in the upcoming Grammy Awards on Sunday. Well, joining me now are Ozzy and Sharon Osbourne.
Two of my oldest friends in show business. Quite literally, but you're older than me, obviously.
SHARON OSBOURNE: Oh, behave (ph). We haven't even started and there's abuse.
MORGAN: I missed you Sharon, when I heard you cackling away in the grimmer mill (ph). I actually said, "God, I missed that laugh."
SHARON OSBOURNE: I miss you.
MORGAN: That evil, evil laugh. Ozzy, what are the moments for you to get back with Sabbath to have this album to come out?
OZZY OSBOURNE: It's been one of the most -- I'm producing all the years of my whole career. It took me 45 years to go number one in America.
MORGAN: I mean, amazing, right? Up to 45 years.
OZZY OSBOURNE: And then we got three nominations for Grammy, and that every show was sold out. It's just been an -- remaining years (ph).
MORGAN: Number one in 13 countries around the world including America. Did you ever think this would be happening to you? You'd be aged (ph) now.
OZZY OSBOURNE: Absolutely no. I'm 65 years old and I -- so, wow, so in that moment, it's nice seeing me alive.
MORGAN: You're 65? You look blody good for 65, Ozzy.
OZZY OSBOURNE: Thank you. My wife's cooking.
MORGAN: What was the last meal you cook, Sharon?
SHARON OSBOURNE: Don't be ridiculous.
OZZY OSBOURNE: She's been toasting about 1973. And it would burn.
MORGAN: Sharon, what do you make of it and when you've managed Ozzy's career for a very long time, this incredible renaissance of Black Sabbath and at the Grammy's, it'll be a big deal, maybe three nominations to the band. Pretty special, right?
SHARON OSBOURNE: It is special and its well-deserved too, you know, my goodness and they've all paid their dues over and over and over again. And there would this sort of antisocial band they were never the critics' favorite. Their first album "Rolling Stone" said this will never last, you will never hear from this band again. And here we are and rolling. And in fact, Rolling Stone were dying to do a big piece on the band and they go, "No. We remember when."
MORGAN: Well, you've got grudges Ozzy Osbourne.
SHARON OSBOURNE: Yeah.
MORGAN: 45 years in grudges to get Rolling Stone (inaudible).
OZZY OSBOURNE: All along the way in the early days, no one gives us a good set of (inaudible) version.
SHARON OSBOURNE: They were the people's band. They were the people's band never, never in the media people were interfered.
MORGAN: What is that secret Ozzy for longevity? So many bands come and go ...
OZZY OSBOURNE: For me -- I make a fortune if I knew that. It's just all I know we've always been a band not on the mainstream, we've been on underground, following after London (ph) or something. It's true but it looks like there are after 35 years of being solo and having met Black Sabbath and then I got a number one including 13 countries, and three Grammy nominations. That's big, I mean, so every state in every concert, all we do is -- we're going on to arrive in Vietnam and to all these different countries.
MORGAN: Amazing, isn't it? Now, at the same time, last year, the equally tempestuous famous marriage, Osbourne marriage, hit the Box Office. What went on there Ozzy?
OZZY OSBOURNE: Well ...
MORGAN: There's a stuff being written about it.
OZZY OSBOURNE: I started abusing the prescription drugs. And I said, "You know, I'll end the prescription drugs." Sharon said, "I'm out of it. I can't deal with this anymore."
MORGAN: Well, let us see what Sharon said at the time on The Talk about this. Let's watch this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SHARON OSBOURNE: Everybody knows he's been struggling with this his entire life. And I never knew that he was using prescription drugs. I knew he was drinking occasionally, but I didn't realize, you know, to the extent. It's our business, we're dealing with it. We're not getting divorced. However, am I happy? No. Am I upset? Yes, I am. I'm devastated right now.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MORGAN: How did you feel when you watched that Ozzy?
OZZY OSBOURNE: Well, it's out of my control. Once it has -- well, you know, let's say once to my intent enough when I start -- I can't drink but if I don't do what's suggested and we don't go to these meetings and therapy classes, and whatever, I'll pull back. You know, I've trying to -- I've been part of it since 1982.
I've been in that many rehabs, you know, back and front. I've been in and out of this program going for years. And these people say, "You got a new -- you got to attend these meetings, you got these. I probably listen to me -- OK but then when I start and just go, "I know better than that. I don't have to go today." And I ended back in the bottle again.
MORGAN: You certainly ...
OZZY OSBOURNE: I'm an alcoholic, drug addict, you know.
MORGAN: Well, yes. You said this about you. Which I thought was extraordinarily powerful. And you said, "It's like water drips from a tap and you go F it for no reason at all. You'll suddenly think, I'll fancy a drink, and your head will say, let yourself have one. Next thing, you know, you're scraping yourself of the garage floor three days later. It's like having a haunted head. You got these voices saying, Don't worry about it Ozzy. Anyone would have a drink if their album went number one in all these countries. But you're doing a deal with the devil. It's a disease of the mind and body and you can't control it.
OZZY OSBOURNE: That's exactly right. I mean, the next thing I want to do is back with my wife. So I love her.
MORGAN: I've never met a couple I'm going to say in the whole of entertainment that I have thought had a closer or passionate loving relationships. I was really shocked to be honest with you. And I didn't like seeing how upset you were, Sharon. Obviously, you were devastated. What did you feel when you find out what Ozzy have been secretive because it was behind your back.
SHARON OSBOURNE: Yeah.
MORGAN: Did you fear that this might end the marriage?
SHARON OSBUORNE: It was more hurt. I was very, very bruised. I was hurt but it also -- Ozzy had been drinking for a year and a half and I never knew and it also kicked me in the ass because I'm like, "Well, what kind of marriage do I have that I don't know that this is going on?"
And what kind of marriage we had was I tend to get married to my work. And I'm like, "Well, it's not just him, it's me too." And that takes time. It takes time to actually take all of that in because the first thing you do is, "It's like you, it's you, it's you" and then you go now, "Hold on a minute."
MORGAN: You must have had a moment Ozzy when all blew up, when you though, "I may have lost Sharon here."
OZZY OSBOURNE: Oh absolutely. I was -- she was in the house. They're all saying, "How's (inaudible) that's she's been through." It was miserable, lonely.
Again I wake up in the morning looking at the mirror and go, "You've done it again. You might have done it permanently this time." But Sharon and my family have been putting up with me going in and out, in and out of -- she's not getting a good show. I'm not proud of it. I'm not -- I'm very -- Piers, definitely runs all good stuff.
MORGAN: Do you think you'll be able to avoid falling off the rails again?
OZZY OSBOURNE: I can't say -- I can't ...
MORGAN: Or this is going to live with you forever, do you think?
OZZY OSBOURNE: I cannot say yes and I can't say no because it's cunning, powerful, and bad because my head will say, "Gone. As you just said Gone, I'm wondering. You know anybody with its signs, I don't know. But then the same voices I heard this morning, straighten myself up some bar floors and then, see you can do it. You should do it.
MORGAN: It's a lonely battle, isn't it because Sharon knew nothing and the kids knew nothing. The band didn't know any of it ...
OZZY OSBOURNE: When you...
MORGAN: It's all a secret kind of devil thing that's going on.
OZZY OSBOURNE: When you still hiding bottles in your own house and you saw it -- Sharon might have a bottle of wine and drink one glass and until technically that never drunk anything and nothing she would know until one day she says, "Have you been drinking more wine?" And I said, "No." You start lying, you start to why do you always pick on me, you know.
MORGAN: How did you were back?
OZZY OSBOURNE: Well, It was very difficult, she was really upset with me, you know, and I don't blame her.
SHARON OSBOURNE: We had cappuccino gate.
MORGAN: What was that?
SHARON OSBOURNE: Ozzy came around to have a talk at the hotel that I was staying at and I told him -- no, I was like. "This is divorce, this is it. This is what I want. I want this, this, this, and this. And then it's over." And he goes, "You do calling at me." And I was drinking a cappuccino and I went woops on his head.
OZZY OSBOURNE: I was wearing a coffee pot for that day. And I walked at the hotel when she'd ripped my shirt. And I would start walking to -- and started to. ..
MORGAN: Cappuccino gets it. What was the moment for you Sharon when you thought, "I'm going to take him back"?
SHARON OSBOURNE: You know what, it's -- you put up this front because it's what you should do. You feel, "This is what I should do. I can't be seen to be weak. I can't let somebody disrespect me this much so I have to come out with this." But in my gut, I knew I'm not going anywhere, you know, but I have to give him a hard time because if I don't it's going to happen in two weeks again.
MORGAN: You've been clean, how long now. ..
OZZY OSBOURNE: Just -- Oh, it's over10 months now -- coming 11 months now.
MORGAN: Which is a great achievement because I know how difficult its is for you. I know how difficult it's been over the years for you.
OZZY OSBOURNE: It's hard especially when you come off a stage, and you're doing a great concert. And that's where it all starts. It's a -- you want the party to continue but what I want to do is get off the stage in the car and go. I don't socialize with people in the park and gigs, you know, I don't go there.
MORGAN: Because here's the thing Ozzy, you're never going to find another Sharon.
OZZY OSBOURNE: No.
MORGAN: And she's never going to find another Ozzy
SHARON OSBOURNE: No.
OZZY OSBOURNE: Oh, I'm pretty sure.
MORGAN: No. We can't have this ending. It's too important. I don't mind Black Sabbath splitting up. You got the real band.
Let's take a break. Let's come back and talk more Grammies, more happy stuff, and a bit of Justin Bieber. I know Sharon's got a few views on Mr. Bieber. I want to extricate them.
(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)
SHARON OSBOURNE: Let's remember the fun.
OZZY OSBOURNE: The what?
(END AUDIO CLIP) (COMMERCIAL BREAK)
MORGAN: Black Sabbath's "God is Dead", nominated for two Grammys. This song of the Album 13 is nominated as well. Pretty extraordinary. You said three nominations here.
We come to the Grammys again in a moment Ozzy but another news about Justin Bieber that made me think about what you guys went through as parents with your kids after the "Osbourne Show" is such a huge hit and you went through all these with, you know, young teenagers who want to be rebellious ...
SHARON OSBOURNE: Sure.
MORGAN: ... and they get into problems with drink and drugs and so on. What do make of it Sharon? What's going on with young Mr. Bieber?
SHARON OSBOURNE: You know, I think that some of it is just his age. He's 19 and he's, you know, worldwide, you know, star, successful. Money and youth is not a good combination. It never is. And very few people handle that situation well and he's not handling it well. And I feel bad for him because I do give him a hard time on the show. I always, you know, jokes on his behalf but it's, you know, and I think back to my kids what were they doing then but Jack was already two years over then.
So it's like, you know what, he needs somebody to give him a good slap and a talking to and bring him back down to the real world.
MORGAN: Jack and all your family have been doing great in recent years. Jack did his extraordinary thing on Dancing with the Stars. He came third. Let's watch a little clip from that.
I used to love watching it just to see you falling apart. You stand to leave before -- now, she is laughing again but it wasn't easy to watch. I mean it's just incredible that he did so well, right?
SHARON OSBOURNE: We did the quivering myth.
OZZY OSBOURNE: I'm the Prince of Darkness. I'm -- it's so hard you must say.
MORGAN: Ozzy, what do you make it of the way your kids are coping? Kelly now is proper bonafide, a star.
OZZY OSBOURNE: I couldn't be happier. I mean Jack is my hero because his diagnosed with MS and he did -- and when he said, "I'm going to do Dancing with the Star", I -- which is going to be last one show -- he's never danced in his life and he blew my mind when ...
MORGAN: See I knew he do well because every Osbourne I know has just got this competitive spirit. You just want to win.
OZZY OSBOURNE: He's bright. He's absolutely great. I mean, you can do this great granddaughter. MORGAN: Yes, a little of bit of gold, isn't she? Kelly is now single again.
SHARON OSBOURNE: Yes.
MORGAN: I love the quote, you said, "Let the auditions begin." But Kelly is like a mini me, isn't she really?
SHARON OSBOURNE: She is. She is, and, you know, it's -- that's why we always say, don't we engagement, engagement. You know, you never just go, "I love you, I love you too let's go get married -- engagement." You know, it's...
OZZY OSBOURNE: It's got an understanding that she gets to change guys every three years.
SHARON OSBOURNE: And so she showed it to woman's life...
(CROSSTALK)
SHARON OSBOURNE: Exactly.
OZZY OSBOURNE: Get engaged and try out that way before -- instead of getting married all the time.
MORGAN: We got -- the Grammys is happening on Sunday. What will happen to Black Sabbath now and to you? Are you going to carry on new gadgets and stones in the '70s?
OZZY OSBOURNE: It's up in the air. I'm going for it but what we all doing we're going to do a tour of -- where am I?
SHARON OSBOURNE: Oh my gosh, you're going everywhere. You're doing that Hollywood ball. They're doing that in April. They're going to Canada next in April. And then, they're going all through Europe. I mean they go from Abu Dhabi to Moscow within two days.
MORGAN: You still get on together as family?
OZZY OSBOURNE: It was great better than ever. Nobody's drunk. Nobody's stoned. Nobody remember what we we're doing.
SHARON OSBOURNE: Tell him the story about the last time you did Hollywood ball.
OZZY OSBOURNE: 1972 I think. We got banned for being too low.
MORGAN: You can try and get banned again.
OZZY OSBOURNE: Yes. Yes. Another round for the next.
MORGAN: And just finally, Ozzy, I know this will be a big preview of the Beatles -- the remaining two Beatles, Paul McCartney and Ringo Starr are going to be getting back together for the Grammys and do a separate thing I think to celebrate the 15th anniversary of the Ed Sullivan Show, when they first break America. As a huge Beatles fan, what do you think of that?
OZZY OSBOURNE: I think it's great. I want to see McCartney in a few -- and he's family -- you go, "How many hit songs did this guy written? And he's got this two and a half hour show. Everyone, you know, "I remember that." It's -- their body work is unbelievable.
MORGAN: Amazing isn't it?
OZZY OSBOURNE: But I can remember the first time I heard "She Loves You", I was looking in -- my when I listened and I asked him with the transistor and I heard "She Loves You". That changed my life because I thought that's what I want to do. That's great song, didn't it?
MORGAN: Amazing. I think just the greatest band it can be. Black Sabbath's latest album 13 is available now. Black Sabbath Ozzy album is now on iTunes. Grammys of course air on Sunday on CBS, The Talk as witness. You Osbournes are everywhere.
SHARON OSBOURNE: Thank you.
MORGAN: You've invaded every aspects in my life and I love it.
SHARON OSBOURNE: And you miss me.
MORGAN: I do miss you. And Americas Talent, this is both of us.
SHARON OSBOURNE: Doesn't it? Look at the figures, they say.
MORGAN: They'd never get free off us if actually folks are still there. Ozzy, great to see you.
OZZY OSBOURNE: God bless you, Piers.
MORGAN: Good to see you guys back together. Sharon, come and give me a kiss. Lovely to see you. We'll be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
MORGAN: Quite a night. Seem to be that people are still talking about us. I sit down with the real-life "Wolf of Wall Street", Jordan Belfort. Leo DiCaprio plays him in Martin Scorsese's hit movie but his real story is even more extraordinary.
The "Real-life Wolf of Wall Street", that's Friday night. And tomorrow CNN films presents "The Impostor", the incredible stranger than fiction story of a Frenchman who managed to convinced a Texas family that he was their missing child.
That's all for us tonight AC 360 Later starts right now.
