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Piers Morgan Live

Interview with Jordan Belfort

Aired February 21, 2014 - 21:00   ET


PIERS MORGAN, CNN HOST: This is Piers Morgan Live. Welcome to our viewers in the United States and around the world.

Tonight, the movie that's raunchy, raw and some people say crosses the line.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: One, two, tree.

LEONARDO DICAPRIO, PLAYS JORDAN BELFORT IN "THE WOLF OF WALL STREET": Stop, safety first, safety is first. I don't want to get a bad reputation.


MORGAN: Martin Scorsese's "Wolf of Wall Street." I'll talk exclusively with a man who is the inspiration of Leonardo Dicaprio's character.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I think what Jordan just did is he -- if I'm not mistaken...


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: ... you just tried to bribe a federal officer

DICAPRIO: No, technically, I didn't bribe anybody.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No, no that's not the conversation.

DICAPRIO: No, no, no, according to US criminal code, there needs to be an exact dollar figure for the exchange of services. That would not hold up in the court of law.


DICAPRIO: No, no, no that's the truth.


MORGAN: Yes, the real life "Wolf of Wall Street." Jordan Belfort is here tonight live and unleashed. Hollywood has made Jordan Belfort into a big story. It doesn't get much better than watching Leonardo Dicaprio that surely play on the big screen than in real life.

Jordan Belfort used what's called a pump and dump to scam more than 1500 investors and blew millions of everything from drugs, to women, to yachts, to cars, ended up behind bars to securities fraud and money laundering serving 22 months in a four-year sentence.

And Jordan Belfort joins me now exclusively. You're like one of the most notorious people in the entire world, Jordan Belfort. And let's see, out of that (ph) cause from all over the world in the last 24 hours since we announce this because you don't give interviews, certainly not for a long time. You haven't given in for this movie until now.


MORGAN: Now you've let yourself loose here for the next hour. How do you feel about this extraordinary mayhem erupting around you, your story, in this movie?

BELFORT: Well, it's a bit surreal for sure because, I mean, I think controversial more than notorious. And I, you know, I chose not to give interviews for a while. And I think I wanted the movie to be basically played. I think the studio wanted that as well and I thought this would be a good place to sort of, you know, get the message out. And assure people who have questions, you have question and a...

MORGAN: What is the real message you want to get out?

BELFORT: Well, I mean, I guess for me, I -- it's important that the movie is viewed the right way certainly is a cautionary tale. I know this is big issue of, you know, people maybe glamorizing what happened. And I think that, I mean, I think Terry Winter that who wrote the screenplays said it best when he was interviewed. Because if you look at this movie and you're -- walk away, thinking this is how you want to live your life then you have screw lose. So...

MORGAN: But people said that about Wall Street...


MORGAN: ... and Gordon Gekko and of course even you admit that Gordon Gekko became this weird inspiration to go and beat Gordon Gekko. Many other people did too. And I suppose the crisis about the movie right now is, people will look at Jordan Belfort's life played by Leo DiCaprio. And it is very glamorous movie for a large probably. You don't see much of the, I guess the human side of the victim. So we're going to go come that a bit later.

There is a danger that all of this movie will do is create -- alert of the old Jordan Belfort. Except not the guy you now are.

BELFORT: Right the old...

MORGAN: But the old one who even you admit was a pretty bad guy. BELFORT: Yeah. Well, I don't really think that is going to happen and I'll tell you why, I think that is a fundamental difference between the Gordon Gekko character and myself. Number one, Gordon Gekko was a fictionalized character and they never really saw his downfall. All he -- I think in the end of it, he got taped and then, you know, he push his button and that's that. You'll find at the Wall Street too of what happened to Gordon Gekko.

And this movie it's pretty clear that I lost everything and also my story is known throughout the world that I ended up in jail and it -- that, you know, it was a disaster personally, professionally. And I think, that being said though, I think there's a lot of great things to glean from the movie. And so, I think that hopefully when people see this, they can say, you know, there's some things in it that, wow, really are inspiring. Starting from nothing, to start with selling and motivation, I think that does inspire, I think it should move people. But they need to get in a context that if you're not doing it with ethics and integrity, it's a disaster for yourself and everyone around you.

MORGAN: Let's watch two clips.


MORGAN: The first one is Leo DiCaprio in character as Jordan Belfort from the movie talking about you.


DICAPRIO: My name is Jordan Belfort. The year I turn 26, I made $49 million which literally piss me off because it was three shy of a million a week.

Was all this legal? Absolutely not.


MORGAN: The second clip, this is Leo DiCaprio talking about the real you.


MORGAN: So, not from the movie, but just a proper interview with Leo talking about what he thinks of you personally.


DICAPRIO: I've been in this company many times but there is nothing quite like Jordan's public speaking and his ability to train and empower young entrepreneurs. Jordan stands as a shining example of the transformative qualities of ambition and hard work. And in that regard, he is a true motivator.


MORGAN: I suppose my first question would be and pretty extraordinary, right? I mean, there is you, you had it all, you lost it all, you're down, every thing is gone. Now you've got the hottest movie star in the world paying you that kind of compliment in a piece he brought it out there for people to see. And what did it make you feel like to see DiCaprio do that?

BELFORT: It was amazing. I mean, I think that it's a testament to Leo's character that he could, you know, obviously speaking about my new life and not my whole life...

MORGAN: Right.

BELFORT: that clip. And I think that, you know, originally when Leo saw this project, I think he was, you know, he want to get it on screen. And he said this publicly because it represented that the stakes that I made, the attitude I had at that time represents a lot of what really went wrong ultimately in many years later with Wall Street and I think it was important to him. And I think that what impressed Leo, I think, about my new life so much is he saw me really make this radical turn and I think that moved him and I was really proud and, you know, shocked they did that.

MORGAN: How much time did you spend with Leo DiCaprio?

BELFORT: I spent a lot.

MORGAN: Like what?

BELFORT: You know, countless hours, you know, hundreds of hours.

MORGAN: Hundreds of hours in his company?

BELFORT: Yeah, or hundred plus hours.

MORGAN: And how did you find him and how did he find you when you were just interacting together?

BELFORT: Oh, either, you know, by telephone in my house or his house or out somewhere. And we just literally, he said, you know, one thing I don't think people realize about Leo is his excellence is not by -- that he strives for it. He works really, really hard and I think he was so determined to suck every bit of information from me and any stuff that wasn't in the book. And sort of, you know, what was on my mind, just really try. And I guess I, you know, there is how much he is looking at you because when I saw it on screen, it was like, "Oh my God." I like to be -- I thought it's, you know, it was mind boggling to see.

MORGAN: I mean, I can tell already the voice is pretty well perfect.

BELFORT: It's amazing.

MORGAN: It got you. You know you don't look massively dissimilar to, I guess, in your younger days to how he is on the movie. And so, when you watched the movie, what did you feel about the reality because only you would know really. BELFORT: You know it was shocking. And when I first saw the movie with my fiancee the first time and we were speechless afterwards, you know, and I was all...

MORGAN: In a good or bad way?

BELFORT: In a good way. I mean, I guess, for me, it's different than anybody in the audiences. I think they're speechless and because there's like overwhelmed with obscenity all the way (ph). For me, it was trying to sort of, you know, I come to terms of my old life. I wrote this book and it was like a cathartic experience to me. But to see it on film like that with someone that that's just such a good job, I literally -- I thought I must have sweating at certain points with some of the cocaine was being snored and I'm like, I got all the sympathetic reactions to it. And I just -- it was...

MORGAN: And all of that was true, right? I mean, I'm not over rating (ph), I think an FBI guy who was investigating and he said, the thing about Jordan Belfort is it's all true. I mean, let's go through to some of the things in the movie. I can say I love the movie. If you haven't seen it regardless of the moral issues it raises, it's a brilliant movie.

BELFORT: It's a very brilliant movie.

MORGAN: Incredibly entertaining, brilliantly made.

BELFORT: That's for (inaudible) for sure for...

MORGAN: And great actors everywhere. Matthew McConaughey, Leo DiCaprio, Jonah Hill, I mean they're all terrific.


MORGAN: But let's get go to some of the stories. A female employee shaved her head for $10,000 in front of the paying morbid (ph) stuff, true?

BELFORT: True. To get breast implants. So it was sort of even worse. It was like the whole idea of...

MORGAN: To get breast implant, she shaved her head for $10,000?

BELFORT: Yes, yes and if they -- I guess that the philosophy was, you know, her hair will grow back and then it would all be perfect in six months. So that that was the -- it's amazing with the rationalization. I think that was -- since that you brought that scene I think that was the scene that it personally disturbed me. And I think it had probably disturbed to a lot of people when you see it what...

MORGAN: It didn't at a time disturbed (ph). Your wage is too high...

BELFORT: Oh no. It -- it's not that so high, but it didn't started the way it started we shaved a guy's head for $10,000 and that was really fun. Within a year, head shaving is $50 like the price went down because...

MORGAN: $50?

BELFORT: Will you become numb? That's what happened with insanity and all the sort of stuff that you do where what seems amazing at first becomes complex after a while. You don't lose your soul all at once. You lose it a little bit at a time incrementally, you know, when I loss my ethical way, it did not start off and I'm sure we'll go that later. But, it's sort of like these tiny imperceptible steps over the line and before you do it, see each time you let him around and moves a bit, and before you know it you're doing things, you thought you never do and it sees perfectly OK. Same thing goes with the head shaving. So the day one, it was, "Oh yeah, let's shave the guy's head $5,000." He was -- needed the money, it all made sense, it would be fun to crew cut, right? And then a year later flash forward and it's completely off the rails.

MORGAN: Dwarves being thrown onto Velcro dart boards.

BELFORT: Right. Well...

MORGAN: Did that happen?

BELFORT: I wasn't there at that time. So, I didn't throw...

MORGAN: But you heard it happened?

BELFORT: After I left, yes, yes.

MORGAN: What do you think about that as a...

BELFORT: Well, I think -- I don't think it's appropriate for sure, you know, I mean obviously I think it would be humorous to watch it as an outsider in a very bizarre sort of way. I don't think it's a sort of -- where that you want to -- let's just say, you know, I don't endorse the practice.

MORGAN: Your number two portrayed in the movie by Jonah Hill ate a live goldfish that belong to a Sratton Oakmont, the firm employee, did that happen?

BELFORT: It happens.

MORGAN: You saw him do that?

BELFORT: Yeah. And the thing with that is like, you know, his character was heavily fictionalized. He represents...

MORGAN: So the real-life guy is who really?

BELFORT: It's a guy named Danny. And in the movie, he represents a bunch of different characters. So in fairness to Danny...

MORGAN: But did Danny eat the goldfish?

BELFORT: He ate the goldfish though, yes, and he has publicly admitted that and...

MORGAN: When you watch that happening, I mean...

BELFORT: It was such a...

MORGAN: It kind of nadir of croaking (ph) excess doesn't it?

BELFORT: Yeah. No doubt. I think that, you know, these things do happen on Wall Street. They just do and, you know, insanity happens...

MORGAN: Are they part of the folklore, the legend, the kind of chess beating, again, (inaudible) or one of the thing that...


MORGAN: Is that what this about really? It's about who can go the furthest?

BELFORT: I think it -- I think that sort of behavior isn't just endemic to Wall Street. I think it's endemic to large groups of men who are drinking or doing any sort of, you know, substances or in a frat house or wherever it might be where, you know, people in such some of the herd mentality, the crowd, mentality where people individually never do these things. You put 50 or 100 in one spot and all of a sudden the rules of behavior start to change.

MORGAN: Did you have a chimpanzee in the office handing out mail?

BELFORT: Not mail because they have like -- people had ex in the office. It was an iguana or rattlesnake, you know, buffoons, and you know, all sort of stuff in herd (ph)...

MORGAN: Jordan, you're saying this look -- this is all perfectly normal. If I came into my CNN office one day with an iguana, a rattlesnake and a chimpanzee, I would be frankly march out of there high speed. You'll kind of just thinking this is perfectly normal?

BELFORT: I don't know. I heard some rumors that they have like stuff. And so, look, I value people do, they bring their pets to work and able to sort of free, but for them, it's about free spirit so they can be creative. I think we took in a different direction here. So, I don't think it was the -- I don't think the outcome was as healthy as it how can you still (inaudible).

MORGAN: What was the single most appalling thing you ever saw where even you went?

BELFORT: I can't say it on television, but it happened at my bachelor podium (ph). I wrote the scene -- when I got late, you know, the scene in the bachelor podium (ph)...

MORGAN: So bad you can't even tell me.

BELFORT: Not on air. I'll tell you.

MORGAN: Can you give me a clue?

BELFORT: It had to do with in act of sexual deprave view. That was so deprave that even I myself was speechless. So, it was about hundred people watching what happened. It was the most disgusting thing I've ever seen in my life. And that time, I think there was probably 50 prostitutes. They are naked. It was the most disgusting they have ever seen. So, it was pretty raunchy.

MORGAN: OK. Let's take a break just so that you could tell me actually what happened and then I'll decide whether we can put it on air.

BELFORT: You can't.


MORGAN: The case is truth being stranger than fiction of the real story of "The Wolf of Wall Street" maybe even more over the top on the movie version. Back with me now is the man who inspired Leonardo DiCaprio's character, Jordan Belfort spending two years behind bars. The securities fraud and money laundering getting extraordinary reaction on Twitter, tweets pouring in good, bad, ugly. Someone here Jake Crawson (ph) and -- tweet me @PiersMorgan with your views and we'll put into my man. And he was saying, by the look of his face, he looks like he really misses his old life. Do you?

BELFORT: No. Listen, I -- again, I have to see some aspects of the camaraderie. In the early years, when Stratton first starred at year one, it was pure, it was beautiful, and I invented the system for training salesman. It was legit. We were trying to make our client's money and then it's -- and that was great and I'd loved that. And then it's spiraled out of control and everything happened after that. I do not miss, I mean, especially the drugs, I've been sober for 17 years now and I almost died because of the addiction.

So, I guess sometimes, if you know, I think I have a tendency to smile sometimes when I'm embarrassed and I think people might mistake that for me being happy about it. But, you know, I don't miss that life.

MORGAN: There is few saying you know he looks like his glorying in what happened.

BELFORT: I'm not glorying for sure.

MORGAN: Well, how would you categorize it?

BELFORT: A bit of embarrassment, and you know, putting on brave face maybe.

MORGAN: Do you have shame about it. Do you feel ashamed?

BELFORT: Not -- it's not -- shame is the wrong word. I think, you go to these different transitions of guilt and shame. And I'm in a stage now of remorse which is really the active form of that or I'm actually doing things right now to make up for any pass transgressions that I've made. And that guilt is sort of a self-serving emotion where you're like, "Oh, I feel so guilty. I'm not going to do --"and you just wallop (ph) and die versus going out and actually learning from your mistakes and then trying to make them right and so forth.

MORGAN: Let's go back to 1991. It's the home video, made at a house party in the Hampton's and a kind of height of your behavior then.


BELFORT: And I'll make one more guarantee


BELFORT: Six months from now, what you're doing right now is going to be nothing again.


BELFORT: OK, that's the bottom line. The value is only 200 between 400 and actually 400 between 600 and there's still going to be one guy who's going to bring that million dollar mark in a month.


MORGAN: I want to get back to the very early day.


MORGAN: When was it you realized you have this ability to sell?

BELFORT: The first time has really started in the meat business. I -- When got out of -- I went to dental school at a - was there for a day and I dropped out and realized that, you know, the deans of the golden age of dentistry is over like, "oh, really?" Well, then I left because my mom wanted me to be a doctor. So, I thought that happened. And then I...

MORGAN: They want a dental school and you bail?

BELFORT: Yeah, I bailed.

MORGAN: Because I have apparently guys and you couldn't make -- you couldn't rich too, right?

BELFORT: I, yeah, I've really, you know, I always want to be rich. I did. I, you know I had the desire as a hardworking kid. I, you know from the -- pay throughout the age of eight, did magic shows when I was 12, shovel drive ways at the snow storms. And I hit it big for the first time when I was 16 selling ices on the beach. And I make a lot of money. I put myself through college that way and my parents were always really, really supportive of me. And then when I got out of -- I went to dentist school, dropped out, and I answered an ad for selling meat and seafood door-to-door.

And that was a door-to-door sales drive and the first day I broke the company record and something just came over, and then I started speaking, the words just flowed and I knew what to say. And then, I opened up my own business within a month after that and started that -- knowing how to enact (ph) for training for salesman. I trained 26 salesmen in 26 trucks and I made every mistake a young entrepreneur can make. I over expanded. I was under capitalized. Wasn't keeping track of my inventory and I was out business within a year and a half. And from there, that's why I got down to Wall Street. So I...

MORGAN: You were bankrupt of it.

BELFORT: Yes, I applied for bankruptcy, yeah.

MORGAN: You actually made yourself bankrupt?


MORGAN: Did it teach you anything? I mean...

BELFORT: Oh my God, I've learned -- everything I got to know about business stems from the first disastrous mistake I made because you learned a lot more from your mistakes in life than you do from your successes.

MORGAN: People have said about, you know, people who know their stuff in this -- in Wall Street and so on have said, if you had stayed legitimate the entire time, you could have been a billionaire now because you were such a brilliant salesman and such a brilliant motivator, and be able to run a great team that had you just not been so unethical and breaking the law overtime, you would have been everything you'd ever wanted to be?

BELFORT: They're very smart people. They're100 percent right because that's the shame of it all is that -- and this a, you know, I do lot of speeches at colleges and charity work. And I always say to kids going into the workplace is that that the biggest mistake that I made is not delaying my own gratification. It was character flaw that I had as a kid. I want everything tomorrow and a lot of kids are like that.

And because of that, I went for the short-term bucks. And very often in business, you can make a little bit of extra money by being unethical but it doesn't last. You're building a foundation on sand. And it collapsed because of that. If I would have done it just as you said, I probably worth $10 billion, $20 billion right now. That's for sure.

MORGAN: You went down to Wall Street. And on your very first day in 1987, literally the first day you're there, the company that you're working for goes bust in the great crash which happened that day.

BELFORT: Right. Well not -- OK, I will just -- I went down there. There's even worst than that. I went down there and I trained for six months while the market was soaring to the very top.

MORGAN: Do you think you missed this (ph)?

BELFORT: And I'm like, "This is it. My days are going to come in...

MORGAN: And you're first day is a...

BELFORT: ... they broke off October 19, 1987 and just like that it's Black Monday and it's over. And then, when I'm off the crash, it was like every hope and dream I have was dead. And I thought that was over. And I went home that night with my first wife and for about one day I was paralyzed which -- I just couldn't even move. And that I was just so upset about it. Then, we picked up the (inaudible) section and I stumbled upon an ad for a broker term in Long Island.

MORGAN: OK. Hold it there. Let's take a short break because you end up going there. This is the pump and dump operation that it was to become and a lot of victims. So, we may get tough with you after the break, Jordan Belfort.

BELFORT: I deserve it probably.



ROB REINER, ACTOR: $26,000 for one dinner.

JONAH HILL, ACTOR: Dad we're not poor anymore.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Tell them about the size.

REINER: What is the size? They cure cancer?

HILL: Besides they cure cancer that's the problem. They were there. That's why each one them were expensive.


MORGAN: A pivotal moment for Martin Scorsese's "Wolf of Wall Street." And back with me now, the man who lived the real story, Jordan Belfort who's like DiCaprio in that scene. You took a good game but it all came crashing down when he went to prison for so called pump and dump schemes.

MORGAN: How did this start? You go to this place on Long Island. They're selling little penny stock which is a pretty small as we see in the movie, a pretty dodgy looking operation. So, in compare to what you had come from in Wall Street, day one, it all goes brilliantly. And what do you realize in that moment?

BELFORT: Well, you know, one of the important distinctions I think is the people to know here, especially young people, is that in the movie, when I walked into the firm and I get my first look at it, and I sit down. I think Spike Jones plays the manager. And I asked him a question, say, "Is this all legitimate?" And he says to me, well, you know, well, in truth he said, "Of course, it's legitimate. Look at the license on the wall. We're part of the NASD."

And that's a danger that every kid that goes into the workforce faces, because -- and I -- one thing I always say with ecologist is that just because someone is out there and we're in a company, they have a license on the wall, you have to use your own gut check to say, "Is this happening...

MORGAN: And what did you -- in the movie you see...


MRGAN: ... very quickly what you do...


MORGAN: ... and you're spinning a brilliant line...


MORGAN: ... to -- in terms of its ability to be successful brilliant, but not brilliant for the guy on the other end of the phone who's being produced into this deal.

So, very, very quickly in the movie DiCaprio playing you...


MORGAN: ... crossed this very ethical boundary.

BELFORT: Right. In the movie...

MORGAN: Is that what happened in real life?

BELFORT: No, not quite. No. I had no idea that was 100 percent legitimate. A 100 percent.

MORGAN: So, the kind of pump and dump scheme for those who won't be very familiar with it, you know, you basically inflate this penny stocks to be something that not in reality. People pump and load the cash and then it all gets dumped and they lose their money.

BELFORT: Right. But the brokers aren't really, you know, on that -- especially someone I just like when I walked in my first ad, you know, I came from a big firm, was all legitimate.

Now, it's lower price stock. So, to me, when I'm on the phone pitching, I'm like, I'm just selling another stock. I had no idea there was anything wrong with it at all. And...

MORGAN: When did you realize it wasn't what it seemed?

BELFORT: About two -- I would say about a month in -- I totally got what's going on.

MORGAN: And is that the ethical moment for you when you crossed the line?

BELFORT: It was -- There was a series of moments. That was the first moment where I allowed greed to get the best of me. Because I neatly said to myself and, you know, in the movie, my wife is already tired of losing people -- my first wife. But in reality, I said that to her. I'm sick and tired of this. I can't take this anymore. And part of the reasons why I opened up my own firm is that I thought I could do a better job at it. I thought I could get legitimate companies into a whole different thing and that was really one of the reasons why I opened up my own firm.

MORGAN: When it became as big firm, Stratton Oakmont, and you were making millions and millions and millions, how much of it do you think, looking back on it, and be completely honest here because you have been about many things, how much of it was legal and how much of it was illegal?

BELFORT: I would say 90 percent was legal in terms of the data it operates, 95 probably, but the five percent was incredibly destructive and disgusting and poisoned everything else.

MORGAN: And you knew that was all happening?

BELFORT: Absolutely. Yes and not at the beginning, those -- but again, it didn't happen all at once.

MORGAN: But what happened? And here's a fascinating thing about you. You know, you had good parents who were very supportive.


MORGAN: All in your early life, you know, you're an entrepreneur, you're buzzing around, you're selling papers, you're selling ice creams, you know, you're on the beach, you're doing stuff, you're selling meat and stuff and it's all doing great and you're doing it all legitimately and you come from good family...


MORGAN: ... and good background. There's nothing there that suggests criminality.


MORGAN: What happened to Jordan Belfort? Why did you become this art criminal?

BELFORT: Well, I think that what happened was is that when you get into this section of Wall Street, it's very easy just sort of rationalizing what you're doing and I rationalized each of my actions one step at a time. And then one rationalization allows you to cross a line and then you pull back, doing things right again. But, you're line of morality is moved. So next time you cross, it's a bit further, a little bit further, and, you know, you can just say, you know, how did the GFC happened. I had all these people that went to Ivy League schools at the biggest firms and the rating agencies, how could who have degrees in, you know, in economics and a kind of get stepping documents.

MORGAN: And what's the easy answer?

BELFORT: Is that they didn't do it. They didn't lose their soul at once, did a little bit here, a little push there. MORGAN: Did you lose your soul completely?

BELFORT: You know, I think that's -- it's hard to say because I think that I got to a point in my life where I was probably about as awful as a person as I was capable of being and still walking around.

MORGAN: You were ought to pay a $110. 4 million for victim compensation fund. As of now, you've paid back how much?

BELFORT: About 12.

MORGAN: About 12 million. Do you have any expectation or hope you'll ever get to pay them all back?

BELFORT: Yeah. Listen, I think this movie, thanks for that, is an amazing thing because I'm giving 100 percent of all the profits from the movie and both books. And the book is really good.

MORGAN: You are compelled to give, unless I'm wrong, 50 percent of all your gross earnings straight to payment.


MORGAN: Is that not right anymore?

BELFORT: That's not right. That's ...

MORGAN: Whatsoever the case?

BELFORT: Yes, for I was on probation.

MORGAN: And now you're off probation and no longer compelled to legally.

BELFORT: Not legally.

MORGAN: But are you continuing to do that?

BELFORT: I'm giving 100 percent of both books, everything, and the movie. And that, you know, you can't say how much it's going to be. Who knows how many copies of book will sell in 15, 20 years, but I think it'll be, you know, many, many millions of dollars. And I'm really happy about that, you know.

MORGAN: Here's -- I want to ask you a little about shame, you sort of dodged that. If you didn't really feel ashamed, but there are some people, real people, many, many people, thousands, thousands, tens of thousands who lost a lot of money, if not everything, to your company and to you.

BELFORT: That's not true, though, so.

MORGAN: Why is that not true?

BELFORT: Because we we're calling rich people. We're not calling poor. MORGAN: Well, let's give you some of them, Peter Springsteel, an architect at Mystic, Connecticut.


MORGAN: He lost half his life savings.


MORGAN: Dr. Alfred Vitt (ph), retired dentist. He lost $2,050, 000.


MORGAN: One victim called Bob Shearin (ph) apparently lost $130,000. He told the telegraph newspaper with this, "His depiction in this movie is annoying and disturbing because it makes him into a more mythical figure and skips reality of what he was about. And what he was about was harming people financially."

BELFORT: I think the movie clearly paints that picture that...

MORGAN: But that's accurate, isn't it?


MORGAN: That you were deliberately...

BELFORT: I'm the first person who admit that. I said that.

MORGAN: Right.

BELFORT: That's been 1993.

MORGAN: How do you feel?

BELFORT: You said 1993. What did I say? I said yes.

MORGAN: I agree.

BELFORT: That year was the work and you print (inaudible) and I consider myself to be the most depraved year of my life.

MORGAN: So, that's why I'm surprised you would then say, you don't think thousands of people lost that money.

BELFORT: You said life savings.

MORGAN: Well, some of them did, right?

BELFORT: I don't know anyone who lost their life savings. You know, the one you that you -- again, I'm not saying that makes it right, but let's just be accurate.

MORGAN: But, how do you feel about these people ...

BELFORT: I think it's awful. MORGAN: ... losing a lot of money ...

BELFORT: It's terrible.

MORGAN: ... in some cases, having their lives completely turned upside down?

BELFORT: I think it's terrible.

MORGAN: On a human level if you -- have you met any of them? Have you met one of your victims?

BELFORT: I have not.

MORGAN: Why not?

BELFORT: No one sought me out.

MORGAN: Why haven't you sought them out?

BELFORT: You know, I don't want to intrude anybody's life and you know.

MORGAN: Come on Jordan that's a camp out

BELFORT: No, it's not. I don't think it's appropriate to seek my ...

MORGAN: Come and (inaudible). Wouldn't it be part of your self- redemption to actually track some of these people down? We know some of their names. We know what they're saying about you. If you actually called them up and just said, "I -- he would like to talk to you. I would like to apologize personally to what happened."

BELFORT: You know, I never really considered before but I think a better way for me is over the next 50 years as I go around the world speak and do my stuff, all the money that flows in. I think action speaks louder than words. And I think by doing what I'm doing here, by turning over a 100 percent of the profit is probably the most genuine thing I could do and I think ...

MORGAN: See in a way, what you're doing now, I don't mean this to be too cynical because you're doing the right thing as best you probably can.

What I would say to you, if I was being critical is, you're kind of talking about it still as a financial thing to be resolved financially that you can deal with this with money in the same way that at a time you can make money out of these people. It was all money. It wasn't really about human beings. I supposed my question to you would be that -- and when I read out these names, these are real people ...


MORGAN: ... really who have suffered personally badly but have you ever seen them as human beings or as part of the issue with the kind of culture that we see in the movie that actually in the end, you become suddenly dehumanized?

BELFORT: Oh, I think it's a very good point you're bringing up. And I think that one of the ways I allowed myself to do that was to sort of take a step back and they become account numbers and names versus people.

And yeah, I think that's a problem with, again what happens on Wall Street sometimes, not with everybody but it's a possibility. But, if you think that's how I feel now, then you're completely don't know what is in my heart because honestly I feel terrible about what happened

And yes, if I was -- if I had shame back then, yes. Now, no. I'm not going to live my life in shame. I think it's a toxic emotion. I live with remorse. And that means I go out and do things actively to make up for the wrongs that I committed in the past. And I think that is, for me, and I think for most people who've made mistakes, we've all made mistakes, obviously, I made some really big ones and I've done some really great things as well. So, I tried daily to right the wrongs I committed. That's the best I can do.

MORGAN: If I found a few of your victims, would you come and see them?

BELFORT: If you found them, oh yeah, sure I would. Yeah. You want me back on your show again, is that what you're saying?

MORGAN: Possibly. I think it would be very interesting meeting.

BELFORT: Let me go check the ratings first.

MORGAN: Oh no, I find it fascinating that you have never met any of them.

BELFORT: I haven't.

MORGAN: And it has never crossed your mind, too.