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Prism

London Conference on Afghanistan Draws Dozens Of Countries To Help Rebuild, Restore That Nation

Aired January 28, 2010 - 12:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

STAN GRANT, CNN INT'L. ANCHOR, PRISM (voice over): Afghan President Karzai has a plan to get the Taliban to join the country's mainstream.

But can you pay for peace? That is the focus of our "Prism Segment" tonight. Can money lure fighters away from insurgency?

And in entombed in rubble for more than two weeks the new record for survival, out of Haiti.

From CNN Abu Dhabi in United Arab Emirates, this is PRISM, where we take a story and look at it from multiple perspectives. I'm Stan Grant.

More than eight years after the war in Afghanistan began, world leaders are taking a hard look at how much time and money it will take to make the country secure. In London, today, the U.S., Britain, and dozens of other countries tackled when foreign troops might leave and how to reach out to the Taliban. Our Paula Newton is with us from London.

And, Paula, really this is about trying to bring those militants who they see as more moderate back into the fold, isn't it?

PAULA NEWTON, CNN INT'L. CORRESPONDENT: Well, some people call it bribing, others call it an investment. It is a two-pronged approach and one that involves re-integration or reconciliation with the Taliban. But the other, Stan, is also a military approach. And making it clear that if it doesn't work, that there will be military consequences.

You know, Stan, it is interesting that it has taken eight years to try to get to a much more nimble, much more deft, much more strategic plan for Afghanistan, but here we are. Hundreds of millions more committed not just to the troop surge, not just to aid, but again, actually paying foot soldiers for the Taliban, to abandon, renounce violence, and actually give them job, perhaps even in the security forces. And that is key in this whole strategy.

Want you to listen now to British Prime Minister Gordon Brown.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DAVID MILIBAND, BRITISH FOREIGN SECRETARY: The Afghanistan government has also agree steps to tackle the issue of corruption. President Karzai repeated his commitment to tackle what he called the culture of impunity in respect of corruption. There will be an independent high office for oversight and the international community will be supporting the anti-corruption drive.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

NEWTON: So, you can hear that is actually, I'm sorry, David Miliband, who is the foreign secretary here in Britain. He was speaking about corruption, Stan, another big topic here at the conference.

It is clear that the Afghanistan government has had a problem with corruption for the last few years, with the international community wanted to see was a different direction. There will be an oversight committee, there will be a special tribunal now, anti-corruption. I think there still is, though, to be realistic, Stan, a lot of skepticism as to whether or not this will work. And whether or not the Afghan government grasps how serious the anti-corruption measures have to be, Stan.

GRANT: Paula, thank you for that. Paula Newton joining us there from London. Well, through the PRISM for you, can the Taliban be bought? Even before the conference started, President Karzai was asked if the new approach amounts to bribery. If you call this a bribe, Mr. Karzai said in an interview, then we are all bribing ourselves. Because employment is something we are looking for in all countries, all over the world. It is an employment opportunity, he says.

And article in "The Sunday Times" says after giving up on winning victory in Afghanistan by military means, the international community is resorting to the centuries-old method of buying its way out."

Afghans seem to have mixed reactions to the prospect of offering jobs, housing and other incentives to the Taliban in exchange for laying down their weapons. Here is a sampling from the streets of Kabul.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE (through translator): I don't think the government can buy the leaders of the Taliban with money. Because they are getting support from Pakistan. Their source must be eradicated, which is Pakistan and the Islamic madrassas in Pakistan must get closed. Because they are getting support against the government.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE (through translator): When the Taliban were here, what did they do? What did they do for Afghan society? They closed the door of the schools, tortured the people, they dropped acid on the faces of the women, the kind of things they did?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE (through translator): No, they will not be bought by money. They have to reach an agreement. Will they reach an agreement? I can't say. If they come to build the country, and work and strive to build up our country, to improve the lives of the poor people, it would be good, because now we have had enough. We have gone through 30 years of war and people are leaving the country.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE (through translator): No, the Taliban are the same people as we are and they cannot be bought with money. No one can be bought with money. But if they provide them with jobs, I don't think they are fighting for money. I cannot say that the Taliban will come over, just for money. They need some more cooperation, including jobs facilities and also they should address the reason that why they are unhappy from the government. They are Afghans and Afghans never sell their country for money.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE (through translator): No, they cannot buy the Taliban with money, but they should speak with them and negotiate with them to come for peace. Money does not have value, but with negotiations and peaceful means, they can meet and they can solve it. That is the only way.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

GRANT: A different kind of pay for peace program was implemented in Iraq. The U.S. military paid Iraqi insurgents to switch sides and fight against Al Qaeda, in 2007 and 2008. More than 70,000 former insurgents were being paid $10 a day by the U.S. military to form so-called concerned local citizens' groups. The mostly Sunni men retained their arms, but patrolled specific neighborhoods or towns to prevent attacks. The program cost about a quarter of billion dollars a year and was considered a short- term success.

Well, just back from a trip to Afghanistan the chairman of the U.S. Senate Armed Services Committee says the U.S. and NATO have a long way to go, while he is not opposed to the plan to incentivize moderate Taliban to reintegrate, Carl Levin says it is an area to watch.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. CARL LEVIN (D-MI), ARMED SERVICES CMTE.: Another thing to watch is tow whether or not President Karzai and we can come up with a program for reintegration of those lower level Taliban, which will chip away at the power of the Taliban and help to support the efforts of the Afghan security forces.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRANT: Well, for another voice we invited Jordan's foreign minister to give us his perspective. I started by asking Nasser Judeh if Mr. Karzai's plan is viable?

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

NASSER JUDEH, JORDANIAN FOREIGN MINISTER: Well, I mean, I take heart from what President Karzai said this morning. He said there are four important words in this entire approach, and that it has to be Afghan ownership, Afghanistan leadership. And I think that anything that is home grown, should promise to be effective.

GRANT: But are you going to really be able to work with hardcore Taliban? Taliban that we know are committed to forcing foreign troops out of Afghanistan and overthrowing the Karzai government.

JUDEH: Well, I mean the presence of 77 countries, or probably a little bit more, just under 80 countries, here today attests to the fact that the world community, the international community is committed to doing everything in its power to try and help the Afghani people, to empower them. And also there is a collective international effort to make life here better. I take for example the recent poll that was conducted in Afghanistan by various Western news outlets, which produced results that were very encouraging. That over 70 percent of Afghani people feel that their future is promising and that they are heading in the right direction. So, obviously this policy of reintegration and reconciliation, as it promises to be effective.

As far as we're concerned in Jordan, our presence there is strictly for three different areas that specifically are, number one, the humanitarian effort in terms of our presence of-and field hospitals and the logistical support and also to combat terror, and we were a target of terror.

And number three is also to defend the true image of Islam against those who try to distort the image of Islam.

GRANT: Let's talk about Jordan's role, though, because we saw recently with the attack that killed the CIA agents and the involvement of someone so-said to be a Jordanian double, agent. Someone who had switched sides, if you like. Did that reveal a level of collusion, a close relationship between the U.S. and Jordan. That some in Jordan may not be all that comfortable with?

JEDUH: Well, I take exception to the word "collusion" because Jordan was one of the very first countries in Afghanistan. Again, as I said, the humanitarian effort, our field hospitals, our assistance as part of the collective international effort, and also to combat terror. Let's not forget and we must not forget that Jordan was a target of terror, most recently in 2005, with the hotel bombings. But many attempts were foiled and thwarted. So, we are there to protect Jordan, and Jordanians, essentially, but we are also there as part of the collective international effort.

GRANT: Just a final thought from you. Give me your assessment of where this conflict is at right now. The Taliban, as we know, are very strong. They have been able to strike right in the heart of Kabul, itself. They are killing more foreign troops today, than ever before, in this conflict. Would you say that the Taliban, right now, are winning?

JUDEH: This is not a-something the point can be judgmental about. As I said, there is consensus among all those who are attending this conference today that the solution in the long run is not going to be just a military solution, not just a political solution, but a combination of everything.

On the one hand, you have the Afghan people, the Afghan society, and the need to empower them and make sure their future is promising. And then, on the other hand, I think we are all in this effort together to combat extremism and terrorism.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

GRANT: Nasser Judeh, there the foreign minister from Jordan, with his thoughts on the Afghan conflict.

Well, one final note, "The New York Times" reports that a tribe in a Taliban stronghold in eastern Afghanistan has agreed to combat the Taliban. "The Times" article says the Shinawari (ph) Tribe will get $1 million in direct aid for battling insurgents and to burn down the home of any Afghan caught harboring Taliban militants.

Toyota's troubles get bigger over a very sticky problem with accelerators. Are you in the clear?

And the World Economic Forum underway in Davos, Switzerland. Some are wondering where are the Gulf countries?

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

GRANT: We've been discussing Afghanistan and the future of Afghanistan. I want to take you back now to the conference looking at Afghanistan, where U.S. Secretary of State Hillary Clinton is speaking. Let's have a listen to what she has to say.

(BEGIN LIVE FEED, IN PROGRESS)

HILLARY CLINTON, U.S. SECRETARY OF STATE: The goal is to have an Afghan-led, and Afghan-owned strategy. And we are seeing that translated into reality everyday. President Karzai laid out an ambitious agenda for reform at his inauguration last year. There has been a number of plans put forth. And Afghanistan has moved forward on preparation for a conditions based transition, to take responsibility for its own security. And an agenda for development and governance, which is critical to the future.

Among the decisions made today was to establish a peace and reintegration trust fund, to support the government of Afghanistan's efforts to draw disaffected Taliban back into society, so long as they renounce violence, renounce Al Qaeda, agree to abide by the laws and constitution of Afghanistan. Japan has shown an extraordinary commitment with its announcement of $50 million for the fund. And in parallel the United States military has been authorized to use substantial funds to support the effort, enabling out commanders on the ground to support Afghan-government led initiatives to take insurgents off the battlefield.

We have agreed to support NATO's plan to work with the Afghan government on the conditions based, province-by-province security transition. As President Obama has made clear, our efforts will allow us to begin to transition our own troops out of Afghanistan in July of 2011. But as I said this morning, and-would underscore this afternoon, this is not an exit strategy. It is about assisting and partnering with the Afghans.

Now, the kinds of reforms that President Karzai and the Afghan government have announced are important. And we're going to watch them carefully and make clear our expectations that they be fulfilled. Among them are their efforts to combat corruption, provide more public services to people, effectively manage international aid.

We also had very constructive conversations, last night at dinner, hosted by Secretary Miliband, this morning at breakfast, hosted by Prime Minister Brown, and during the conference, about how the international community can support these reforms more effectively, including significant progress toward Afghanistan's benchmarks for debt relief from the Paris Club and international financial institutions.

I also believe very strongly that ...

(END LIVE FEED, IN PROGRESS)

GRANT: OK, we'll break away there from Hillary Clinton, the U.S. secretary of State, speaking at the Afghanistan conference. Her thoughts there, her comments, very much in keeping with the theme of this conference. That is, an Afghan-owned, strategy to try to reintegrate disaffected members of the Taliban, back into civil society in Afghanistan. The U.S. Secretary of State Hillary Clinton.

We will continue to monitor that conference and bring to you any notable speakers or developments.

Moving on, Toyota's car troubles are reverberating around the globe. The world's top automaker is expanding its recall over accelerator pedals that could malfunction. Toyota now says European models are also affected. It is not clear how many. Some 75,000 cars in China, also need to be fixed. And Toyota is adding 1.1 million more cars in the U.S. to an earlier massive, massive recall.

Toyota has built its success on a reputation for quality and reliability. So, how does the company recover from an image hit like this? For more on Toyota's troubles we bring in Jim Boulden.

And, Jim, certainly a big headache for Toyota, isn't it?

JIM BOULDEN, CNN INT'L. CORRESPONDENT: Yes, absolutely. You know, it is at least 5 million cars now being recalled and that doesn't even count the cars here in Europe. And you know they have been growing so strong in Europe certainly one of the top Asian automakers. They make most of their cars sold here in Europe, in Europe. So they are also a big employer.

And, you know, obviously, they've had a fantastic reputation over the years, becoming the world's number one automaker. Taking over from GM, but just like GM, they started to have problems with overreaching. I guess, over-expanding. And not being able to keep control of the quality. And so now you have these massive recalls.

But the positive side would be that Toyota says that it is very close to finding a replacement for this break issue-the accelerator issue, I should say. And also the fact that they are taking such drastic steps, very quickly, And saying to consumers that they want to get this fixed very quickly instead of letting it drag on. And so some people are seeing that as a positive.

But certainly, some of the other automakers will be looking at this and thinking, is this a chance for Toyota to start to loose some of its market share? We should note, however, to be fair, Ford has also stopped production of some cars in China, that they make with a joint venture, because they have the same kind of accelerator, made from a company called CTS, in Indiana. So, Ford also halting some production. So, you see it isn't just Toyota, Stan.

GRANT: Jim, thank you very much for that. Jim Boulden, joining us live there, from London.

Day two in Davos, where movers and shakers from the world of politics and business are gathered for the Annual World Economic Forum. Discussions today ranged from spiraling budget deficits to pleas to help Haiti. John Defterios is keeping an eye on all the action. He joins us now from the Swiss resort and a guarantee of the oil to keep pumping from Saudi Arabia, John?

JOHND DEFTERIOS, CNN ANCHOR, "MARKETPLACE MIDDLE EAST" Hi, Stan. How are you doing?

It is interesting we had a pretty heated discussion about peak oil. In fact, I remember chairing this plenary session last year, and it is the same topic on the table, but a lot has changed, Stan, since a year ago. Because they have had some very big discoveries in the Iraqi fields, they are starting to bring those onto production. Trying to take their production from 2.4 million barrels a day, up to 7 or 8 in the next five or six years. I know that is a very big target.

The discoveries off the shore of Brazil, which had looked very promising, and also in West Africa. So, the point that was made by Khalid Al-Falih, who is the chief executive officer at Saudi Aramco, of course the largest producer in the world, is that we don't like to have a discussion of peak oil just yet, because it is getting more efficient in the field. Although, he was countered by the chief executive officer of Total, the big French energy giant, saying that there is some $13 trillion needs to be invested over the next 30 years, and that needs to be going into fields where oil is much more difficult to find.

So, again, a pretty heated debate on that subject. It doesn't solve the problem but more oil is coming on line. And the industry, quite frankly, is happy to see oil around $70 to $80 a barrel, particularly in the Middle East, they can live with that price quite happily.

GRANT: Yes, very comfortably.

John, talking about oil, of course, there is a lot of it here in the UAE. We have heard from say, from Saudis, we have heard from Kuwaitis, but no real representation or no one speaking from the other Gulf states, why is that?

DEFTERIOS: Well, it is an interesting point, Stan, because we started to notice this ourselves. You know, I was in Riyadh before, at another forum. And then flew straight over to Davos. I was expecting the Saudi delegation to follow, about 24 hours later. Three of the major players inside Saudi Arabia did not come. They didn't make an explanation for it. We did not have speakers from Qatar. We didn't have a speaker from Abu Dhabi as well. It was not surprising not to see a delegation from Dubai, because of the financial crisis, and the restructuring of their debt, so they decided to stay home and deal with that. Although, I must say that the Gulf and the broader Middle East business community was very highly represented. They just didn't sit on panels. And I met with at least 10 or 12 of them over different periods over the last two days.

So, the business community alive and well, but the governments decided to stay closer to home. I know the Qatari Emir, for example, and the prime minister, were both supposed to be here in Davos. And I was told by sources that they were in Brazil working on a potential deal in the energy sector there. So, going back to the first point, with the surplus capital that Qatar has right now, they are likely to deploy that into Latin America, where it is promising, as well.

GRANT: John, thank you very much for that. John Defterios, and of course, you can see John on "MARKETPLACE MIDDLE EAST' right here on CNN.

Well, more than two weeks after the Haiti earthquake a young woman is pulled alive from the rubble. We'll tell you how she's doing, just ahead.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

GRANT: Peru is hoping to find more tourists out of Machu Picchu today. About 600 have been airlifted out so far this week. Mudslides cut off roads and rail to the ancient mountain city on Sunday, leaving about 1,000 tourists stranded. And more people who walked the Inca trail that ends at Machu Picchu keep arriving. Travelers say they have run out of food and water. And what few supplies and hotel rooms that are left are going for sky high prices.

Let's turn now to developments in Haiti, where a teenage girl apparently buried alive for 15 days lives to tell the tale.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CROWD SHOUTING, CHEERING

GRANT: The 16-year-old earthquake victim was dehydrated and weak, but very much alive when a team of French rescue workers pulled her from the rubble, Wednesday. She was discovered after people heard her voice from under the rubble.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

Remarkable. Let's find out more on this rescue that is so many people are calling a miracle. Hala Gorani joins us now from Haiti's devastated capital-Hala.

HALA GORANI, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes, Stan, it is interesting that the French rescue team, also found this latest survivor and one of the presumptions we're making is that perhaps because they participated in the rescue of a young man, a young 24-year old, over the weekend, that local Haitians here went to the French embassy and authorities and said, look, we're hearing a voice. So, it is interesting how the line of communication is formed with local Haitians, who need help, and who they choose to go to.

Now this young lady, 16-years-old, is in much worse shape than Wismond Jean-Pierre, who was pulled out last weekend. Much more dehydrated. She also has, we understand, a fracture, bone fracture. So there are plenty of medical challenges for her going forward. And even though people on the ground here are saying, look, keep looking for people. You never know, you might find someone alive. Rescue teams, their numbers are going down in this country. And recovery, long-term reconstruction, those types of challenges and issues for Haiti are what people are talking about today, Stan.

GRANT: Yes, and Hala, of course, there is the immediate need of food, water, shelter. Tell us a little bit about that relief and how it is going. How it is being coordinated. And how they are actually controlling the crowds and so on, the people need access to this?

GORANI: That is an interesting question, because I reported on two instances of food relief. One that didn't as well as planned, where there wasn't enough food for everyone. There was a bit of chaos surrounding it. It was a U.N. delivery four or five trucks showed up at the presidential palace a few days ago. And there was a bit of a scuffle. Nothing serious, but a bit of a scuffle, and some people left empty handed.

And then yesterday I went to one of the neighborhoods here, far from the central part of Port-au-Prince, where CARE International was delivering mattresses and hygiene kits. That is toothpaste, toothbrushes, soap, that kind of thing, in buckets. People had been given tickets. So each head a family, is given a ticket and then they stand in line and then they know exactly how many people can get the aid that is being delivered. So, as a result it seemed a lot more orderly.

And looking at these scenarios and these situations, perhaps aid organizations can then, going forward, decide on how to distribute the aid, because people are in dire need. And we have been saying that for two weeks. That is not news, but what is news is how delivery stories become successful when they are organized properly. So it is a question of logistics, of management, and in some cases of providing security for NGOs and authorities who are delivering the supplies, Stan.

GRANT: I only have a little bit of time left, Hala, but I wonder if you can give me a sense of how people are coping now. You've had the initial impact of the quake, but what is the mood amongst people now?

GORANI: And that is also a very interesting question, because you know, as you have, I have covered war, people going through the most desperate times they possibly go through, who have lost relatives, who have lost children, which is the worst thing that can happen to anyone. And in some cases, you would expect them to be frustrated. To be so desperate that in the end it might break out into violence, or a neighbor turning on a neighbor. Or perhaps, some sort of situation where people are not able to contain their frustration.

I have absolutely been stunned at the level of calm, and of people helping others. And of people staying dignified as much as possible in a situation that is almost unimaginable when you are here, Stan. So this is really one of the things that has struck me, I'd say, the most.

GRANT: Remarkable, that human spirit. Hala, thank you very much for that. Hala Gorani, joining us from Port-au-Prince, Haiti.

That's it from Abu Dhabi. "Vital Signs" coming up next, after the headlines.

END