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The Hague Brings Charges Of Genocide On Sudan's President, But An Arrest Is Nearly Impossible

Aired February 03, 2010 - 12:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

STAN GRANT, CNN INT'L. ANCHOR, PRISM (voice over): He's already being charged with crimes against humanity, including murder, torture, and rape. Now Sudan's president could face a charge of genocide.

And the twists and turns of Iran's nuclear row with the West continue. Tonight on PRISM, Iran's ambitions and how likely is a regional nuclear war?

Plus, denied citizenship for allegedly forcing his wife to wear the veil, a man is told he has no place in France.

From CNN Abu Dhabi in United Arab Emirates, this is PRISM, where we take a story and look at it from multiple perspectives. I'm Stan Grant.

He's already facing, and so far avoiding, a warrant on charges of war crimes and crimes against humanity in the conflict in Darfur. Now Sudan's president could yet get tagged with genocide as well. Judges at the International Criminal Court initially rejected the genocide charge, but an appeals panel said the pre-trail chamber set too high a standard of proof and must now reconsider the additional charge.

The current warrant for Omar Al-Bashir is the first of its kind issued by the International Criminal Court against a sitting head of state. Now, even if the genocide charge is added, it is going to be very tough to prove in court. David McKenzie is tracking developments from CNN Nairobi- David.

DAVID MCKENZIE, CNN INT'L. CORRESPONDENT: That's right, Stan, very tough to prove in a court of law, as well as very tough to get Omar Al- Bashir in the dock. He has traveled somewhat through the region and into the Middle East ever since those other arrest warrants were put out for him, or that indictment. And so far, no one has been willing to pick him up.

Stan, the ICC doesn't have a police force. It is not like they go an arrest someone with ICC police. Omar Al-Bashir will have to be taken in by the police or Interpol, within a country that he is visiting. In Sudan, the Sudanese government has not at all operated within the International Criminal Court. And, in fact, even with these charges we expect them to say that this is yet again bias, according to their point of view, of the court, against Africa. The Arab League has also come against these courts, and these charges in the past.

So, certainly very challenging but at the same time it can be seen as a victory, Luis Moreno-Ocampo, the prosecutor, in the ICC who wanted to get the most significant charge against Omar Al-Bashir, which could be genocide according to the ICC statute. They say that he is involved specifically in organizing the genocide, or ordering the genocide in the war in Darfur, that left 200,000 people dead and over 1 million people displaced, according to the U.N. The Sudanese government says those numbers are far lower.

So, is a tricky situation for him to even show up in the Hague, but certainly this is a step that might lead to him getting those genocide charges against him, Stan.

GRANT: David, as you say there, this can be seen as a victory, in part, for the prosecution, but just how difficult is it actually make a case of genocide against someone like Bashir, if indeed he is taken to court?

MCKENZIE: Well, it is very challenging legally. I mean, the genocide is very specific term. He must be seen as ordering the extermination, or the attempted extermination of a group based on race, ethnicity, or religion. What the prosecutor says is that Bashir and his generals, using the Janjaweed Militia in response to an uprising in Darfur region. That they targeted specific tribes, not just because of the uprising, but because of ethnic identity. That is the viewpoint of the ICC prosecutor.

Basically, other people, at least two others have been also under crimes of humanity, been indicted by the ICC in Sudan. Sudan has not handed them over and really there has been little way for them to move forward. This has been a useful leverage point, according to some analysts, though, in trying to end the conflict in Darfur.

But whether leverage can turn into justice is a very different question all together, Stan.

GRANT: David, thank you. David McKenzie joining us live there from Nairobi, Kenya.

Millions of dollars stashed away in Swiss banks will go to the family of former Haitian dictator Jean-Claude Duvalier, not his impoverished nation. Duvalier, universally known as Baby Doc, lives in exile in Paris, having been forced out of Haiti in 1986. The ruling reverses a lower court decision that said the $4.6 million trust fund should go to aid groups working to improve conditions in Haiti. The Swiss federal tribunal made the decision just hours before the January 12 earthquake that devastated Haiti, but only released the ruling today.

Well, in Haiti, the men of the American missionary group accused of child trafficking have a hearing scheduled today. Our Karl Penhaul is in Port-au-Prince with the latest on this case.

Which, Karl, is becoming even more complicated?

KARL PENHAUL, CNN INT'L. CORRESPONDENT: We certainly have been doing some digging on it, Stan. And we have been talking to three young men who were employed as the translators for the Americans Baptists while they were here in Haiti.

According to those three interpreters, the American Baptists held two unauthorized meetings with a Haitian policeman, who also worked at the Dominican embassy. And they say that meeting was intended to try and work out a way to secure passage of the Haitian babies and children into the Dominican Republic, even though the American Baptists were fully aware that they did not have passports or any official permission from the Haitian government for those children to leave.

Now, I asked the interpreters, the translators, if they believed that the person they referred to as a Haitian policeman was a corrupt policeman. I also asked them if they believed that money exchanged hands for-in return for the help of that Haitian policeman. They told me that they didn't know that.

There is also another instance, one of the interpreters traveled then, on the American's bus to the Haitian Dominican border. The bus was unable to cross because it was stopped by Haitian police. And at that point the team leader of the American Baptists, Laura Silsby, according to the interpreter, put in a call to a man, a Dominican man, on the Dominican side of the border. He showed up in uniform. The interpreter believed he was a Dominican policeman and he said that he tried-the Dominican man tried to sort things out, smooth things out with the Haitian police to allow the passage of the children into the Dominican Republic, but that was not possible.

I put those allegations to the Americans, when I met them in jail last night. And Laura Silsby, the team leader, conceded that she did know a Haitian policeman, of the same name that was given to me. She also conceded that she knew a Dominican man, whom she said was not a policeman, but a Coast Guard. She said that there was no, in her words, no problem with those men. She described them both as good Christian men.

When I asked her if they were indeed, trying to facilitate the passage of the children into the Dominican Republic in some illegal fashion, given that the paperwork was not in order. She said simply, "That God put these people in my way," Stan.

GRANT: Karl, thank you very much for that. Karl Penhaul, joining us live there from Port-au-Prince, Haiti.

France has denied citizenship to a man because he alleges forces his French wife to wear that full Islamic veil. French Immigration Minister Eric Besson says the man is depriving his wife of her liberty to come and go without her faced uncovered. The decision comes just one week after a French parliamentary commission recommended a partial ban on any veils that cover the face.

Well, the debate over the full Islamic veils comes as the country grapples with the question, what does it mean to be French? CNN Senior International Correspondent Jim Bittermann looks at a country in search of its true national identity.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

JIM BITTERMANN, CNN SR. INT'L. CORRESPONDENT (voice over): At the City Hall of Fresne, just outside Paris, grade school students were rushing to their regular committee meetings. The 10 and 11 year olds are part of the Children's City Council. With the support of the mayor they take on projects, find out how their government works, learn what it means to be a French citizen.

The notion of nation starts young and runs strong in France. It is strong but not unshakable. Waves of immigration over the past five decades, coupled with France's changing stature in a globalized world, prompted the government here to embark on a three-month process of defining national identity and finding ways to reinforce French values and national pride.

At first there were jokes about berets and baguettes. But then in every corner of France, at President Sarkozy's orders, serious conferences, colloquiums and debates were set in motion, more than 300 in all, to determine what it means to be French, in a country that within a generation has seen the population become more and more non-white and non-Christian.

DOMINIQUE BORDER, L'INSTITUTE MONTAIGNE: I remember Sartre (ph) saying what is good about the French, we all secular Catholics. You can no longer say that when you have huge immigrants coming, and that were not integrated into society, and we need to do that.

BITTERMANN: In part, because the minister of immigration was designated to lead the process, the debates have frequently focused on who new immigrants, legal or illegal, should be treated. Critics accuse the right-wing government here of trying to stir up racial tensions for political gain. That talking about national identity is just meant to distract people from more serious national problems, like the economy. It is turned into a sometimes bitter.

(AUDIENCE AT MEETING SHOUTING)

BITTERMANN: .sometimes angry discussion, which even members of the government have occasionally felt was getting out of control.

FRANZ-OLIVIER GIESBERT, DIRECTOR, LE POINT: We tried to avoid this debate for years and years. And now I think that we are still trying to avoid it.

BITTERMANN: The government's national identity web site has been overwhelmed at times. There have been millions of page views and 10s of thousands of definitions of Frenchness. Although about one in six has been illuminated because it was deemed political or racially offensive.

(On camera): Arguing about national identity is in itself very French. Something they call here, "nombralism", naval gazing. It is hard to imagine there are many countries which would take on such an abstract and potentially divisive issue in such a direct fashion.

(Voice over): Back in Fresne, the young municipal councilors have no problem reminding an outsider that liberty, equality and paternity, are the three founding ideals of their homeland. And a partial answer to the identity debate's central question, what does it mean to be French? But a more complete definition is going to rest in their hands as the old national certainties slowly erode. Jim Bittermann, CNN, Fresne, France.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

GRANT: As the U.N. works toward a nuclear deal with Iran, one core question emerges, has Israeli and the West already run out of time?

And China is used to heavy traffic, but for the Chinese Lunar New Year, it is more than just the roadways that are in a jam.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

GRANT: Welcome back.

There are two significant announcements out of Iran to tell you about. First, the orbital launch of what Tehran calls its exploratory rocket. Iran's defense minister called it successful, describing the country's space program as peaceful. Packed inside, a rat, two turtles, and some worms. Live video and telemetry allowed technicians to monitor the animals in flight. U.S. officials are concerned about the possible dual use of the rocket, and the potential for Iran to develop a ballistic missile.

Matthew Chance, now, has details of a second announcement. In a turn around, Tehran now says it is ready to sent its uranium abroad for enrichment.

Matthew, mixed signals coming out of Iran?

MATTHEW CHANCE, CNN INT'L. CORRESPONDENT: Absolutely, what with the launch of this rocket, sort of demonstrating that its technology, in terms of missiles and rockets, is extremely advanced, coupled with this apparently huge diplomatic U-turn by Mahmoud Ahmadinejad, the Iranian president. That they will now, the Iranians, accept this deal that was brokered by the U.N.'s nuclear watchdog, the IAEA, back in October. That would see Iran transfer most of its low-enriched uranium-nuclear material that it has been manufacturing for the past several years-transferred out of the country to be converted into nuclear fuel rods, to fuel a research reactor back in Tehran.

As I say, it is a huge diplomatic turn around, if it is true. And that is a pretty big "if" and that is why it has been welcomed on the one hand by many of the countries who have been negotiating face to face, directly with the Islamic Republic, over its controversial nuclear program. But also put out with some caution as well. They want to see an official notification by the Iranians, of the U.N.'s nuclear watchdog, the IAEA, to see what it is exactly the Iranians are now prepared to sign up to. Until they get that, it is still just words. There is no concrete measures that have taken by the Iranians at this stage, Stan.

GRANT: Matthew, thank you very much for that. Matthew Chance, joining us live there, from Moscow.

Now, we'll continue to look at this issue through the PRISM. We are asking how likely is a regional nuclear war? Listen to what U.S. National Security Advisor James Jones has to say about concerns in the region.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GEN. JAMES JONES, U.S. NATIONAL SECURITY ADVISOR: Based on my recent travels in the Middle East, it is clear that Iran's nuclear program is a top concern of government across the region, and indeed, around the world. And the stakes here are enormous.

We simply cannot afford a nuclear arms race in the Middle East as a consequence of Iran developing nuclear weapons and the ability to deliver such weapons. And that is why we have followed a two-track approach. First, we have demonstrated a clear willingness to engage with Tehran directly. Second, by organizing the international community around a series of proposals that would allow Iran to show its true intentions.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRANT: While Israel is a key link in the regional equation it is an undeclared nuclear armed power, one Iran's president has said should be wiped off the map. Some anticipate a pre-emptive strike by Israel on Iran's nuclear facilities, could trigger all out war.

From Jerusalem Correspondent Paula Hancocks looks at the potential consequences of Israeli action or inaction.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

PAULA HANCOCKS, CNN INT'L. CORRESPONDENT (voice over): Seventh of June, 1981, Israel attack Iraq's nuclear reaction in Osserack (ph), 18 miles south of Baghdad. Israel claimed the pre-emptive strike was necessary to protect itself.

First we flew something like .

HANCOCKS: Zeev Raz was the lead pilot of that operation.

ZEEV RAZ, FORMER ISRAELI PILOT: We knew that this reactor is not for energy, is not for research, it for making the materials for a bomb, for a nuclear bomb. Here you can see the target, the dome.

HANCOCKS: Showing me footage shot from the cockpit during the attack, Raz says Iran's nuclear ambitions cannot be stopped in the same way Iraq's were. Its facilities are too spread out or deep underground.

RAZ: I don't think the challenge for airpower, it is a challenge for ground troops.

HANCOCKS: Israel is still officially keeping all options on the table. Accepting the U.S. attempts at achieving a diplomatic breakthrough with Iran, but Israel is not alone in believing talks should not be open ended.

JAMES WOOLSEY, FMR. CIA DIRECTOR: We could find ourselves within months to a year or two with the Iranians able to, let's say detonate a primitive weapon up in the desert to the north. And if they do that, as a test, then from the world's point of view, they are a nuclear power and they will really start throwing their weight around even more than they do now.

HANCOCKS: Those who want to avoid the military approach are taking some hope from the rise of Iran's opposition.

DAVID MENASHRE, TEL AVIV UNIVERSITY: What we see in Iran, currently, is that the two trains have already left the terminal in Tehran. One is carrying nuclear missiles, and the other carrying a message of political change.

HANCOCKS: Ask three experts when they think Iran could have a nuclear weapon, if that is its intention, and you'll likely get four different answers. But few think the point of no return has been reached.

RICHARD HAAS, COUNCIL ON FOREIGN RELATIONS: I've seen no evidence and heard of no evidence that Iran has crossed any nuclear threshold. They obviously have thousands of centrifuges that are spinning. Reportedly, though, they have run into some difficulties, but there is no evidence, again, that I know of, that they have tested any weapons.

HANCOCKS: Iran still insists that its nuclear ambitions are peaceful. But the longer talks go nowhere the shorter the odds could become on Israel seriously considering a pre-emptive strike, as it did in Iraq 28 years ago. Paula Hancocks, CNN, Jerusalem.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRANT: Well, after Iran test fired long- and medium-range missiles in 2008, the Associated Press asked people in the streets of Tel Aviv for their reaction, now that the rockets were capable of reaching the city.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I think that we should fire first and put a big damage to them, so that they know what is up with Israel, because we are Jewish and they can't mess with us.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: If Israel has to look at every threat, that we are taking throughout or history, then-and people would just pack up and leave, we wouldn't be here. But it seems that people are still here, people are looking at that, and the government is going to be prepared anyway. So it is not-nothing to worry about right now.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRANT: Well, Chief International Correspondent Christiane Amanpour sat down with the American general with command over troops in the region. They talked about the plausibility of a pre-emptive strike on Iran's nuclear facilities. Listen to what he had to say.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

CHRISTIANE AMANPOUR, CNN CHIEF INT'L. CORRESPONDENT (On camera): In terms of an actual physical capability could Iran's nuclear facilities be bombed, in terms of effectively? Because there are a lot of tunnels, people are talking about.

DAVID PETRAEUS, U.S. CENTCOM COMMANDER: They certainly can be bombed. The level of effect would vary with who it is that carries it out, what ordinance they have and what capability they can bring to bear.

AMANPOUR: What are the drawbacks to military action there?

PETRAEUS: Well, in a sense the consequences of this, really, they are just very, very difficult to calculate. We have done quite a bit of thinking about this, as you would expect, that is what we get paid to do. It would be almost, literally, irresponsible if CENTCOM were not to have been thinking about the various, "what ifs" and to make plans for a whole variety of different contingencies. And we generally try not to be irresponsible.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRANT: Well, in an assessment of the potential fall out from any Israeli strike on Iran's nuclear facilities, James Phillips, of the Heritage Foundation, writes, "Moscow would be the big winner of an Israeli- Iranian war. Russia has invested heavily in cultivating a strategic alliance with Tehran. That has given it a lucrative export market for its nuclear, military, and other technologies and a useful ally for contesting American influence."

"Publically, most Arab countries would denounce an Israeli preventive attack, further evidence of Israeli hostility to the Muslim. But most, with the exception f Iran's ally Syria, would privately welcome the attack."

Jammed streets, packed trains and crowds lining up at ticket counters, we'll explain what is behind the big rush to get out of Beijing.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

GRANT: We are going to take a look now at the global weather picture. Mari Ramos is at the CNN World Weather Center.

Hi, Mari.

MARI RAMOS, CNN METEOROLOGIST: Hello again, Stan.

We are going to start taking a look at Asia, very quickly. You know what? What a difference, compared to last year, even the year before. As people get ready here for the Lunar New Year, travel has already begun.

And we have pictures to show you of some of the train stations across China. This is Beijing and again, very, very full, long lines, because the rush is on as millions of people across China are traveling, getting a head start on the country's most important and biggest holiday. The event always jams the train stations and train tickets scalpers have already been warned by the government to stay home.

This year, 2010, by the way, is the year of the Tiger. They are expecting about 2 billion people to move from one place to the other. This is the time when migrant workers are finally able to go home and visit their families.

Last year, and the year before, they were plagued by ice and snow. This year conditions are a lot better, at least for now. You come back over to the weather map. I'll show you the temperatures.

(WEATHER REPORT)

GRANT: I had one of the coldest nights of my life, Mari. On one of these trains, going across China, during spring break.

RAMOS: There you go.

GRANT: It is bitterly cold in some parts. Still, still shudder at the thought. Thank you.

Well, he climbed 1,575 steps in a little over 10 minutes. And that was good enough for Germany's Thomas Dold to come out on top, literally in the Empire State Building Run Up. It was his fifth victory in the unique New York City race; 300 contestants from around the world ran up 86 flights to the building's observation deck. That is a vertical sprint of about 320 meters and they are feeling the pain.

And that's it for me, Stan Grant, in Abu Dhabi. "INSIDE THE MIDDLE EAST" up next, after we up date the headlines.

END