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Parker Spitzer
Extreme Weather on the East Coast; Presidential Vacation; Competitive Edge and GOP Purity Tests
Aired December 27, 2010 - 20:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
KATHLEEN PARKER, CNN ANCHOR: Good evening, I'm Kathleen Parker.
ELIOT SPITZER, CNN ANCHOR: And I'm Eliot Spitzer. Welcome to the program.
Tonight's the top story, the northeast continues to dig out of a crippling snowstorm that left the region in disarray. All forms of travel, snarled to a near standstill as up to 30 inches of snow fell in some areas disrupting holiday travelers and commuters' lives.
PARKER: Just a few hours ago, the three major New York area airports opened after nearly a full day of grounded flights. But that's still little consolation for the tens of thousands of frustrated passengers still stranded.
SPITZER: And even though the fifth largest storm ever to blanket New York City has passed its impact is still being felt more than 4,000 flights have been canceled today including 1,000 Delta flights, 900 from Continental, about 800 at U.S. Airways, and 500-plus at American.
PARKER: Our own Alison Kosik joins us from LaGuardia with the latest.
Alison, how's it going over there?
ALISON KOSIK, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Hi, Kathleen and Eliot.
Yes, we're finally seeing some movement here at LaGuardia Airport. We've got 10 planes arriving tonight, two leaving. And we could see even more, but not much more, but still we do see some movement happening. But you know we still have thousands of passengers stranded here.
Some of them behind me here, you know, just trying to rest, trying to get something to eat, you know, and this is just LaGuardia Airport. I'm not talking what's happening at Newark and JFK. This is thousands upon thousands of passengers who are yet to get to their destinations.
And so the airports really become their second home. Here at LaGuardia Airport I have seen people washing their faces and brushing their teeth in the bathroom upstairs here from where I am standing. There's a sea of cots where people are -- just watching movies, trying to catch a few Z's. And just swapping stories about what their journey has been like.
One of them is really memorable. One guy coming out of Heathrow Airport when that whole snowstorm was happening in Europe. He actually got stranded at Heathrow for two nights there at that airport. Finally got here to New York, was stranded at JFK, came here to LaGuardia and now is looking to spend his fourth night at a third airport.
But would you believe? He's still in good spirits. And I'm seeing that this common theme running throughout a lot of these passengers. They're really keeping their spirits up especially one passenger who I spoke with trying to get to Charlotte back home.
SPITZER: Alison --
KOSIK: Take a listen to what he had to say.
SPITZER: Can you do us all a favor? Find out where --
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MARTIN MINGUS, STRANDED AIRLINE PASSENGER: We're staying on the third floor. We got a cot. It's all good. It could be worse. I mean we could be stuck somewhere where they have nothing. We got food, we got coffee. We got good people to be around. It's all good. It could be worse.
(END OF VIDEO CLIP)
KOSIK: And so more flights are expected to come out of here tomorrow. But you can only imagine, Eliot, Kathleen, what the backlog is going to be like just to get these passengers out especially with two days of no flights going out of here. Kathleen and Eliot?
SPITZER: How long is it going to take to actually work through this backlog? How many days until the passengers who've been bumped will be able to get on a plane going to their destination? Because a lot of the flights that would be going out tomorrow are booked.
So how many days will it take to get through that backlog?
KOSIK: You know what, Eliot, I'm talking about days. I mean some people are talking about maybe they'll be getting out on Friday, on New Year's Eve. That's their only hope. You know there's really no telling. It's really up to the -- up to the airlines, how many planes they're really going to put in motion to get these passengers out of here. But it really, literally, could be days before they finally reach their destinations.
PARKER: Well, this is more than casual interest, Alison. I've got five people in my house who are trying to get on one of those planes. And I really hope they do. Anyway, it's been fun.
Thank you, Alison.
KOSIK: That's a long -- sure, you got it. PARKER: Yes. It's a long Christmas vacation.
SPITZER: All right. The storm also wreaked havoc on rail travel, cancellations and delayed service plagued Amtrak commuters.
CNN's Jeanne Meserve joins us from Washington, D.C.'s Union Station.
Jeanne, what's the latest down there?
JEANNE MESERVE, CNN HOMELAND SECURITY CORRESPONDENT: Well, tonight things are looking a lot better here at Union Station. The crowds have largely dispersed although there are still some delays with both arrivals and departures from this station.
It's a big improvement from earlier today where the weather just really snarled things up all along the northeast corridor. Yesterday, Amtrak was forced to cancel service between New York and Boston, Boston and Portland, Maine, and from Washington South to Richmond, Virginia, and Newport News.
Today, gradually that service was restored. But there still were some cancellations and some delays, sometimes they were minutes long. Sometimes they were hours long. And clearly some passengers were fed up.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Absolutely no information. That's part of the anxiety. We're not getting any information from Amtrak regarding all of these delays.
(END OF VIDEO CLIP)
MESERVE: Amtrak says it's trying to do its best. That it was consolidating passengers on to the trains that were running. That some of the regional trains were making additional stops to get people where they needed to go. But things aren't back to normal. They do anticipate more disruptions tomorrow. And they aren't making any predictions on when things will be back to usual.
Back to you.
SPITZER: You know, Jeanne, one of the things this storm brought such heavy winds in addition to that snow, in the way trains are flying by each other on those rails, I think the wind was probably just as bad for Amtrak as the snows have been.
MESERVE: Yes, they've had all kinds of problems with switches and with signals and all kinds of things. Some of it appears to be wind related. But an awful lot of it does has to do with the -- with the heavy snow. Particularly south of here, down in Richmond, Newport News. They had a heavy dose of snow down there, snarled things up in that direction as well as northbound up to New York.
PARKER: All right. Thank you, Jeanne. You stay warm. Some people managed to turn the snow day into a play day. And our Mary Snow -- really, Mary Snow, is live out on Columbus Circle tonight.
Mary, it wasn't all stress and stranded travelers out there, was it?
MARY SNOW, CNN CORRESPONDENT: You know, Kathleen, we ran into stranded tourists from Brazil who said, you know, a lot worse places to be stranded than New York City. And they, like many other people, are just making the best of it going shopping. Broadway shows are open tonight. So they were going to go and take in a show.
As the city really starts to recover. But it was more stressful though for the crews out there working throughout the day and the night. Clearing roadways and we've seen all these images of cars and buses stranded. There have been people stranded on subways for many hours overnight.
The city is slowly getting back on its feet. Perhaps the people who had the most fun were had to be the kids in New York City as they took their sleds out to Central Park and the parks around the city. The only thing, though, was they couldn't take it as a snow day since they were already off from school. But really we're seeing a lot more people out around here in the Columbus Circle.
SPITZER: All right. Mary, thank you. It does look like good fun. Stay warm out there.
The president and his family managed to dodge the storm this week. They're on vacation in Hawaii. Our senior White House correspondent Ed Henry drew that tough assignment. He's there on the beach in Honolulu, we think.
Ed, I think it the weather is a little more conducive for the president's golf game than the weather in Washington. Tell us about it.
ED HENRY, CNN SENIOR WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: It really is, Eliot. I don't know -- you know I don't know what you're talking about all these delays. My commute down to the beach there from this hotel balcony really is about 90 seconds, maybe two minutes, 2.5 minutes on a bad day.
And in terms of the president's golf game, he has played the last couple of days. But you should feel bad for us because it's a little bit cloudy today actually. So the president as we speak right now is bowling at a marine base in Honolulu with his two daughters. So he had to curb the golf because I think the temperature plummeted down to maybe 68, 69 degrees today. So --
SPITZER: You can enjoy saying that now.
HENRY: It's nice but not that nice.
PARKER: Yes, that's rough duty, Ed. OK so -- HENRY: I --
PARKER: Everybody wants to know how many of these shirts do you own?
HENRY: You know I've got a whole closet now, a whole new wardrobe because of President Obama and where he vacationed. You know I used to have a lot of belt buckles from Texas and all of that from Crawford with President Bush. So it's changed completely.
But I will tell you there is some serious business going on here. And one of the things that I was able to do is get an exclusive interview with the governor of this state. He's a Democrat, Neil Abercrombie. He was in Congress for a long time, as you know. He's just sworn in about three or four weeks ago.
And he is now telling me that he wants to have a couple of his Cabinet officials investigate what legally they can do to sort of put out more documentation to prove once and for all his belief that President Obama in fact was born here in Hawaii and is eligible to be U.S. president, basically push back on the birthers.
And when I asked him, you know, will the president have to waive any privacy rights or anything like that, basically the governor said, look, this is my deal, and I'm going to do something about it. Take a listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GOV. NEIL ABERCROMBIE (D), HAWAII: Obviously I'm going to do what is legally possible. I have the attorney general and the director of the Department of Health looking at what we can do to try to see what we can do in turn for an open process that will put those who want to disrespect the president and his parents in the proper light, which is to say they have a political agenda not worthy of any good American.
HENRY: So even if the president or White House officials ask you to stop, we just don't want you to do it, you're still -- it's a matter of principle, you're going to go ahead and do it?
ABERCROMBIE: We haven't had any of those discussions. This is a matter of principle with me. I knew his mom and dad.
HENRY: Right.
ABERCROMBIE: I was here when he was born. Anybody who wants to ask the question honestly could have had their answer already. My friends in Congress know that. Everyone who knows me knows that.
This has the nothing to do with the president in terms of politics in the White House. This has everything to do with the respect of the president's office he's entitled to, and it has everything to do with the respect that every person's mother and father.
(END OF VIDEO CLIP)
HENRY: Now part of the impetus of course is that there are some lawmakers in states like Texas and Arizona trying to pass laws that basically say President Obama could not be on the ballot in 2012 unless he shows his actual birth certificate. The governor trying to get ahead of all that and say look, let's solve this once and for all. Eliot and Kathleen.
SPITZER: You know, Ed, it sounds as though he not only is deeply committed to making that point and proving it, but he is almost a fact witness. He was there as he says. He knew the parents. He knew the president's parents. He can vouch for this and make it real. Finally perhaps this will pull it all to rest.
Anyway, Ed Henry from Hawaii, thanks for joining us. Hope the surfing is good. And we're going to get back at you for those comments about our weather here. Anyway, talk to you soon. Thanks so much.
PARKER: Thanks, Ed.
Coming up in a moment, can health care reform help spark the U.S. economy? We'll find out in "The Arena." Stay with us.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
WILL CAIN, NATIONALREVIEW.COM: We'll continue to impose a purity test on anybody that wants to run under the Republican label.
PARKER: Are you a we?
(CROSSTALK)
PARKER: You are? Well.
CAIN: Yes. Let me say this, Kathleen.
(CROSSTALK)
PARKER: I'm crushed.
CAIN: The only thing more funny than James Carville --
PARKER: It's like you're reasonable.
(END OF VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
SPITZER: Despite a round of legislative victories for President Obama the last few weeks, resuscitating the middle-class remains an elusive goal for his administration. Unemployment is stubbornly high, and there is a sense that the United States continues to lose the advantages it used to have in a world of heightened global competition. PARKER: So what can be done to ignite the economy? Joining us to talk about that and other political matters are Chrystia Freeland, global editor at large for Reuters, Steve Kornacki, news editor and columnist at Salon.com, and Will Cain, host of "Off the Page" at Nationalreview.com.
Welcome all of you.
STEVE KORNACKI, NEWS EDITOR, SALON.COM: Thanks, Kathleen.
CHRYSTIA FREELAND, EDITOR AT LARGE, REUTERS: Great to be here.
PARKER: Thanks for coming through the blizzard to be with us.
SPITZER: So Chrystia, let's start with you. Competitiveness internationally perhaps the dominant issue facing the United States as you look forward 20 years. Have we done anything in the last two years to begin to turn the battleship on that critical issue?
FREELAND: Two important things.
SPITZER: Yes.
FREELAND: One is health care reform. Not a very good reform effort, but at least the president tried and something that I think Americans miss is compared to other western industrialized nations, not having universal health care really limits mobility of labor. It makes it harder for people to start their own businesses and it hurts big companies.
So if you look at the car companies, Ontario is doing better for the big car companies than Michigan is right now. And part of the reason is -- the biggest reason --
SPITZER: And so health care was one step.
FREELAND: They don't have that burden. One step. And the second thing is, something we don't talk about that much. I think the "Race to the Top" education reform has been a very important and promising first s step, probably more important than health care because one of the scary things that we've seen is that America is falling behind so many countries in education. Behind China now actually in some of the latest results.
CAIN: Chrystia needs two points. One of which I agree with vigorously which is the point on education. But the first point on health care boggles my mind. So let me get this straight. One of the things that's keeping us back from being globally competitive is the fact that we don't have universal health care.
FREELAND: It's the fact that America spends more on health care and gets poor results than any other country.
CAIN: And yet -- hold on. Hold on. Hold on. Chrystia, I'm confident on what I have to say and I'm sure you as well. Let me finish. For the past 50 years to 100 years, the United States economy has basically owned the world while we have lacked universal health care system and every other economy has had it. Europe included. So as we've seen our economy do this over the last 50 years and we've seen Europe's do this, how is it the economy that doesn't have universal health care is lacking?
FREELAND: OK. Well, first of all, I would disagree with your historical analogy because it's not the case that Europeans have had universal health care or Canadians, for that matter, for the past 100 years. I also think it's a lit bit of a mistake to be talking how bad European economies have been doing recently.
CAIN: Really?
FREELAND: I mean if you look at the -- yes. If you look at industrialized nations, Germany is racing ahead. German economic growth is on a tear.
(CROSSTALK)
FREELAND: So is Canadian --
CAIN: Germany.
FREELAND: Yes.
CAIN: But you pick the one out of about 12.
FREELAND: Yes. No -- yes, but Germany is doing fantastically well.
(CROSSTALK)
SPITZER: The largest economy in Europe and the one that is driving, export driven economy where their labor capital relationship is very much one that follows the blueprint of a global -- of universal health care.
CAIN: Good job, guys, on using Germany. I've got Greece, Spain, U.K., France, all with universal health care.
PARKER: How about Canada there?
FREELAND: Canada has universal health care, too.
CAIN: And their companies are literally imploding.
FREELAND: And that's because they have universal health care that their economies are working. I mean come on.
SPITZER: Steve, I know what -- let me see if I can get a fair agreement here. Do you agree, though, Will, the cost of our health care system, the lack of universality and the -- as Chrystia said, the inability of people to move and they're being locked in to businesses has been an impediment to both capital formation and creating new businesses.
(CROSSTALK)
SPITZER: You may disagree with the solution but you agree with that diagnosis.
CAIN: Yes. Yes. And I think the answer to that is not to further lock people into other third parties, i.e., the government, but to de-couple it from any form of employment. So have people buy their own plans and then you own it no matter who your employer is.
SPITZER: That was part of this as well. This was not universal in terms of single payers.
CAIN: You just shift it to third parties.
SPITZER: No. No.
CAIN: You shifted it from the business owners to the government.
SPITZER: No, no, no. No, no, what we are -- what Chrystia said and what this plan does is permit people to buy on their own. It does not mandate a single payer. Then your critique would have been right. But that's not what this does.
So I think Chrystia's point about putting in place health care that can lower cost is something you agree with conceptually.
CAIN: And the point I'm disagreeing with Chrystia to be specific is that the lack of universal health care is not what's holding the U.S. economy back.
SPITZER: OK.
PARKER: I'm guessing that Steve has -- would like to switch gears for a minute? Or do you have something to say?
KORNACKI: Well, you know what they say, better to be quiet than --
(CROSSTALK)
PARKER: Yes, yes. No, I'm with you on that. But I do want to switch gears. Because you recently wrote that the Republicans, the Tea Partiers are back to rhino hunting and they've turned on one of their own golden boys, Scott Brown of Massachusetts.
KORNACKI: Well, it's an interesting story because if you think just a year ago Scott Brown emerged in Massachusetts as the symbol of the Tea Party. This was the Republican who won Ted Kennedy's seat in sort of a backlash against Barack Obama --
PARKER: Against health care.
KORNACKI: And a backlash against health care. And now at the end of the year the cause right now, the particular source of the anger of the Tea Parties, he voted for the START treaty in the Senate, he voted to repeal "Don't Ask, Don't Tell." He voted for bank reform over the summer. He voted for a jobs bill earlier this year.
And now you have the same Tea Party leaders who were promoting him so aggressively earlier in the year are now openly talking about challenging him in a primary in 2012. And that -- I think the significance of that is, I don't know if he'll get a primary challenge. I don't know if he'll survive or not in 2012. But that is what every Republican who is up for reelection in the Senate in 2012 and every Republican in the House I think is going to have to be thinking about.
It's going to have that threat sort of hovering over them on --
PARKER: Yes.
KORNACKI: -- every key vote for the next two years. Because you saw in 2010 how angry -- an angry Tea Party base over just a few votes can take out a Mike -- can take out some big-named Republicans.
PARKER: Well, Scott Brown was a Massachusetts Republican. You know certainly not a South Carolina Republican. And so he could win there and he's made the mistake of representing his constituents and failing the purity test which is going to -- don't you think -- what does this portent for the Republicans in general come 2012?
CAIN: Well, it's going to be an extension of what we saw this year. And I think Steve is exactly right. We'll continue to impose a purity test on anybody that wants to run under the Republican label.
PARKER: Are you a we? Are you a first person --
(CROSSTALK)
PARKER: You are?
CAIN: Yes. And let me say this.
PARKER: Will.
(CROSSTALK)
PARKER: I'm crushed. I thought you were reasonable.
(LAUGHTER)
CAIN: The only thing more funny than James Carville's statement on this network that we are now -- two years ago. We are in for 40 years of Democratic control is the thought that two months ago we thought conservative control of Congress for the next -- who knows? What, decade, it lasted two months.
SPITZER: All right. Guys --
PARKER: Yes, but the right --
(CROSSTALK)
SPITZER: Guys, we're going to have to take a quick break, we'll be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
PARKER: We're back with Chrystia Freeland, Steve Kornacki and Will Cain.
Will, I want to get back to you. You really are pushing for a purity test in the Republican Party?
CAIN: As pure as I can get, Kathleen. So I know you're bringing up Scott Brown. And the question is, can you do better than Scott Brown in Massachusetts? And the answer is probably not.
FREELAND: And by better you mean more conservative?
CAIN: More conservative. Right. You can do better in South Carolina than Lindsey Graham. You can do better than John Cornyn and Kay Bailey Hutchison in Texas. I would encourage all of these people to be challenged in primaries and find real hard core conservatives in those states.
Scott Brown might be as good as you can do in Massachusetts.
FREELAND: So, Will, if you take that approach, though, aren't you in danger of being considered a hypocrite by your base? I mean is it fair? Is it morally corrective if you believe in a certain ideology to say one version of it is the right thing for Massachusetts and something different is the right thing for Texas?
CAIN: And I think it's a great --
FREELAND: Isn't that weakness?
CAIN: That's a great question. I think some --
SPITZER: It means he doesn't have an answer for it.
(LAUGHTER)
CAIN: You know, it means I don't like my answer. Truth is, I want it to be an ideas-based party. And I do want a pure ideological test.
FREELAND: Then you have to reelect Scott Brown.
PARKER: Wow.
CAIN: I do but --
(CROSSTALK)
PARKER: Democratic Party defines itself that way. We want the furthest left people we can get. CAIN: No, I just want another consistent ideology and I do think they have that right now.
SPITZER: Now look, I'm going to agree with Will on this --
CAIN: I think the last two years.
SPITZER: -- in terms of a smart, tactics, combined with the strategic look at the world. He says, look, we know what we believe in ideologically. But we know we are going to push that boundary as far as we can within the -- I think that is a smarter approach than some of the Tea Party folks who said Christine O'Donnell, win or lose.
And so I think what will is saying is we understand the boundary lines. We'll make the sort of finesse to judgment state-by-state. And I think that's sensible. The good news is Republican Party won't follow it wisely as you would. And so the Democrats are still going to do fine.
FREELAND: It may be clinically sensible, Eliot, but I think it's going to be hard to do. Because if your base is really motivated not just by the practical issue of taking power or not, but motivated by the ideas, then I think explaining these subtleties --
KORNACKI: That's the problem.
FREELAND: -- is going to make people say actually you know what? You are betraying us and betraying our true ideas.
KORNACKI: Well, that's the problem that we saw like in Delaware last year with Christine O'Donnell. Because you took Tea Party activists in Delaware who were just as conservative themselves as the Tea Party activists in South Carolina or Georgia or wherever. They didn't want to hear --
FREELAND: They don't think they have to soft pedal because they're living in Delaware.
KORNACKI: They didn't want to hear, oh we're the ones that are supposed to give this guy a pass. They want to be just as conservative. And there is this disconnect because in so many states you don't have independent voters who were allowed to participate in party primaries.
SPITZER: But they are in Massachusetts.
KORNACKI: Yes, in Massachusetts, they're able to cross over. It barely saved Ed Brooke, the old liberal Republican senator.
SPITZER: Yes. That's a name from history.
KORNACKI: But it could be Scott Brown in two years.
SPITZER: Steve, I want to come back to you for a second. The middle class, the issue of resuscitating the middle class, which is really what has motivated so much of the Democratic base for so many years. When President Obama was elected he put Joe Biden in charge of a big middle-class agenda effort. I don't think we've heard a single word from them.
What has the administration done that long term will begin to increase middle-class wages that have been stagnant for 30 years, while the rich have gotten richer?
KORNACKI: Well, I think that the fundamental story of the first two years of the Obama presidency is how much the world changed in the course of the Obama presidential campaign because if you can --
SPITZER: From factors outside his administration.
KORNACKI: When Barack Obama set out to run for president it was the end of 2006. I mean we were almost two full years away from the meltdown of Wall Street. We're almost two full years away from the economic crisis. That happened, don't forget, you know, basically eight weeks before the election in 2008.
SPITZER: Right.
KORNACKI: So the entire -- what he set out to do, what he set out to be as president was changed by something that happened in the final homestretch of his presidential campaign. So I think it went from this really ambitious sweeping agenda that he started with and it went to like, you know, we've got to sort of just plug the dam here.
SPITZER: Goodbye.
KORNACKI: And while I am at it I want together this health care.
SPITZER: Right. What has he done?
KORNACKI: I think health care is the biggest thing he can point to. And I think the focus of his administration for the next two years is going to shift to protecting. It's going to shift to protecting the signature accomplishment which is health care. Also Wall Street --
SPITZER: But will that would have been enough? You know, if you look at the trend lines. Middle-class income has been dipping down for 30 years.
KORNACKI: Right.
SPITZER: Will health care alone be enough in the context of global competition where workers are seeing their wages diminished by competition from Asia and Latin America? Chrystia, can it work?
FREELAND: No. Absolutely not. And I think that this is a question actually that Republicans as well as Democrats and not just in the United States but in the whole western industrialized world haven't really coped with.
SPITZER: Exactly. FREELAND: You know, we are living in a new global paradigm where that sort of golden, postwar era -- you know we think of the '50s as being this great time. And actually in a way they were. Because a family could live quite well, have a middle-class life with just one member of that family working.
That doesn't exist right now. And I don't think anybody has 100 percent the answers. And I think, you know, some Democrats look back to the '50s and think, oh if only we could have more manufacturing and get the manufacturing wages.
PARKER: Yes. Unfortunately--
FREELAND: I don't think there are going to be enough jobs there to take care of the middle class.
PARKER: It's called World War II --
FREELAND: So I think people need to look for some new answers. I don't think protectionism is the answer either.
SPITZER: The trade -- the impact of trade is something we've got to discuss in terms of the income distribution and who wins and who loses from trade.
FREELAND: Absolutely. But cutting your country off from the global economy --
SPITZER: Right. It's not an answer.
FREELAND: -- I don't think is going to be an answer either. I think that maybe, you know, thinking more about small business creation, making people more mobile, I mean that's why I think both education and health care reform are so important because people are going to have to start finding their own jobs and we're already seeing that happen both with people over 50 who are unemployed.
PARKER: But you're --
FREELAND: Starting to be entrepreneurs. Kids nowadays who can't get jobs are starting their own companies.
PARKER: But you're also talking about --
FREELAND: It's hard to make money that way.
PARKER: -- twenty years down the road before we see any real returns on that kind of investment in our future.
SPITZER: Well, that's how long it takes to turn trend lines. I mean this has -- it's been a 30-year cycle. Turning it around is not going to be within one election cycle. That is a harsh reality.
CAIN: I'm going to ask my liberal friends here this. A lot of hard core liberals are very upset with President Obama in the seeming compromise over the two years. It's absurd but you are. (CROSSTALK)
SPITZER: Is this a question or a comment?
(CROSSTALK)
FREELAND: Throwing around the labels of the you and the liberals. Right.
SPITZER: Don't be ashamed. Go ahead.
CAIN: If Obama is vulnerable in a primary challenge, is he vulnerable from the left or a center left?
SPITZER: OK.
KORNACKI: Let me just put this rest because his approval rating among self-identified liberal Democrats is 87 percent. He is doing better than Bill Clinton was at this point among liberals, much better than Jimmy Carter was. He is safer with his base than any modern president.
(CROSSTALK)
SPITZER: Well, here's the reality. The president is absolutely safe. There will not be nor should there be a primary. The upset comes from the fact that because the two meta-issues that he needs to confront are the place of the United States in terms of global competition and the middle class.
The sense is that he has given too much ground on the Bush tax cuts for instance, which is one of those issues that is not only symbolic, but hugely important in terms of income distribution and how we pay for the sorts of investments that can begin to move the tectonic plates.
FREELAND: But you know what? But you know what?
SPITZER: And that is what has people upset.
FREELAND: You're right, Eliot.
SPITZER: OK. We're done.
FREELAND: But you know --
(LAUGHTER)
FREELAND: As we're trying to say about the French Revolution, it's too early to judge. And with this tax cut deal it's too early to judge. Because the single most important thing for the American middle class and for the liberals and for the conservatives and the Democratic Party is going to be, does this get the economy going again?
(CROSSTALK) FREELAND: And so the White House made a big bet. And if you actually look at this tax deal we're not talking about it as a second stimulus it's bigger than the first stimulus.
SPITZER: OK. Look, guys, we will have to continue this down the road. Thank you. Chrystia, Steve, Will, for a fascinating conversation. We promise we'll have you back when we can look at these economic -- before then, when we can look at these economic numbers to see what happens --
PARKER: You wacky ideologues. I swear. OK. Well, coming up the 2010 cringe worthy moments caught on tape, including one politician who lost his cool and spun out of control. Shocking, I know.
We'll be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
PARKER: Our headliner tonight is about to leave office after two terms as governor of Pennsylvania.
SPITZER: Governor Rendell joins us tonight from Philadelphia. Governor, I just have to ask you a little piece of the fallout, of the blizzard, the cancellation of the Eagles/Vikings game last night. Who's afraid of a little snow? What's going on in Philadelphia here?
GOV. ED RENDELL (R), PENNSYLVANIA: Well, it was the NFL. And the city and the Eagles requested it based on public safety. But I think, Eliot, you know, we're always accused of being liberals or progressives. But I think that sometimes we go too far in telling people what they can and cannot do. My endearing memories were of Pat Summerall kicking a 50-yard field goal when I was 12 years old, through the snow and driving winds, to beat the Cleveland Browns and send it into the playoffs. That's what makes football special. And as far as we fans go, it should have been our own decision whether we wanted to risk going down to the stadium.
PARKER: Well, you've toned everything down considerably. I think you've said that we've turned into a bunch of wussies?
RENDELL: We have.
PARKER: I couldn't agree more.
RENDELL: I mean, this is the wussification of America, Kathleen.
PARKER: I couldn't agree more but maybe even for different reasons.
SPITZER: Well, look, I got to -- for a New Yorker, this is painful. But hats off to the Philadelphia teams these days. You guys are becoming a sports mecca. And our teams here not quite living up to expectations. So we'll leave the sports issue aside very quickly.
PARKER: Wait, wait, I have one more question. I have one more question.
RENDELL: Sure, Kathleen.
PARKER: What's been more fun, watching the Eagles win or the Dallas Cowboys lose?
RENDELL: Well, watching the Eagles win. I am not a hater. You know, we have this expression about haters. I'm not a hater.
SPITZER: You see that's the difference between the Democrats, Governor, and, you know, the other side of the aisle.
PARKER: Yes, yes, yes, yes.
RENDELL: I think you're right, Eliot. I actually think you're right.
SPITZER: I want to come back to your two terms as governor which have been remarkably successful and hats off to you. When you look back, what is the single policy that you think is most important if you left for the state of Pennsylvania?
RENDELL: Well I think what we've done for education. We've invested a whole lot more money in education, Eliot, but we didn't give blank checks to the school districts. We invested in programs that we knew worked like full day kindergarten, prekindergarten programs, technology in the schools, teacher training, things that really have made a difference. Pennsylvania just finished first in the national test for 8th grade reading. Ten years ago, that would have been a fantasy to think that that could happen.
SPITZER: Now can the lessons of your education agenda and I think the president and the race to the top have gotten a fair bit of attention legitimately. So can you go national with what you've done? Should this be part of Barack Obama's agenda as he moves into the second half of his first term?
RENDELL: Sure. I think first and foremost, early childhood education. We're so far behind our competitor nations and when we start educating our kids. I think we should have a national program to help local school districts educate their kids as 3-year-olds, as 4-year-olds, full day kindergarten, small class sizes K through 3. That's the way to build a foundation for success.
SPITZER: Another piece that I've seen you talk about, and I agree with you 100 percent, is energy. It seems to me this is an issue that should be bipartisan. You can put together an agenda for nuclear power, other clean energy uses, solar, natural gas, and move us away from a dependence on foreign energy supplies at a moment when we so desperately need it. Will he, have you advised him to do that?
RENDELL: Well I've talked to the people in the White House, and look, cap and trade is obviously dead with the new Congress.
SPITZER: Right. RENDELL: This may not be the time to do cap and trade, but we can advance the environmental cause at the same time giving us American energy independence. Natural gas, correct. Nuclear. Renewables for sure. We ought to make that renewable tax credit permanent going forward. There are so many things we have got to do, but we've got to do start producing our own energy. If we do that, it will have an impact on our economy. It will help us with the environment. Renewables, nuclear, they're all nonpollutants. It's a step in the right direction. And it's something that I think you can forge agreement, Republican and Democrat, just like education.
I think we're -- where Secretary Duncan and the president are is where a lot of Republicans are in accountability, in more charter schools, and the like. I think we have the opportunity for an education bill and an energy bill. And then the big daddy of them all, I think the president should lead on deficit reduction. Even if it means, Eliot, ticking off our base, even it means ticking off those who are for military spending. We've got to take deficit reduction really seriously. And the president has got to lead.
SPITZER: When it comes to the deficit issue, and you're so right that obviously it's going to be the sort of overhanging issue and now that the Bush tax cuts have been locked in for the next couple of years it gets harder. But it seems to me the way to address this is through fundamental tax reform. You can do what some people are talking about. Simplify the code. Eliminate a lot of the credits that really don't produce a whole lot. Lower rates, but still generate an awful lot of additional revenue. So you hit both the deficit concerns, simplification and equity, at the same time. And that I hope is something he grabs a hold of in the "State of the Union" address.
RENDELL: He should. Absolutely. And this is an issue that isn't a conservative issue. It isn't a progressive issue. It isn't a liberal issue. It's an issue that's desperately important to the country and we've all got to understand that everyone is going to have to take a little bit of a hit. I was very disappointed in Nancy Pelosi who I do like and I think has done a good job in many ways. But when she came out attacking the deficit commission report that said we should stretch social security and the timeline to 69 in the year 2050. Good lord by 2050, the life expectancy will be 95. People will have to be working at 69.
SPITZER: Right. Now, look, again, I think that is so right. And I think the bulls -- there's a little bit of whiplash in the last couple of weeks of the congressional term where for a few weeks, everybody was focused on the deficit. And then suddenly it went and they passed the tax cuts for another $1 trillion. It seemed as though the concerns of week one were totally discarded on a weekend into week two. And I think they've got to get their arms around the fact that you can't both give away money and tax cuts and make the numbers balance in the long run. And you're so right. We need leadership on both sides from Nancy Pelosi as well to make those tough decisions.
RENDELL: And I think, Kathleen, I think it's really important that the Republican leadership respond and not make everything a political football for the next presidential election.
PARKER: Well, I agree with you, Ed. And I know I wish you were here on the set with us because I know you'd really rather talk to me than to Eliot. But I want to ask you --
RENDELL: Well, I'm no fool.
SPITZER: I agree on this one, Ed.
PARKER: You would say the right thing anyway. So tell me what? Your state has gone from blue to solidly red and then your -- your, the new governor is a Republican. What sort of advice have you given him as you prepare your exit?
RENDELL: Well, the advice I would give any new governor or mayor even the president. Govern like you're going to be a one-termer. Don't worry about the political consequences. The best politics is good government.
PARKER: Of course, everybody is curious to know what you're going to do next. And the rumors are that you've been talking about becoming a talker for MSNBC. Why not come over here to CNN? The network everybody trusts for news?
RENDELL: Well, let me say this. I have talked to all four of the networks and if I don't go to CNN, Kathleen, it's because you've been taken.
SPITZER: You know, Governor, I thought there was (INAUDIBLE). I see you're having a big concert with the Beach Boys, and I know you're a fan. So I thought it's between the Beach Boys and doing color commentary for the Eagles. Those were the two performance arts I thought you were going to be handling?
RENDELL: No, I sing like a moose with laryngitis. You don't want to hear me sing.
PARKER: So what's the favorite Beach Boy song? I get around?
RENDELL: No, actually fun, fun, fun.
PARKER: Until your daddy takes the t-bird away?
RENDELL: Absolutely, absolutely.
SPITZER: Well, look, one last thing. I do hope they take to you in the White House. I mean, it'd be great to have you on camera somewhere. But much more important, it would be great to have you inside the White House. Is that a possibility they're going through a transition obviously.
RENDELL: You know --
SPITZER: A lot of good people have been there, but could you join? RENDELL: I would listen if the task was important enough. And interestingly, Eliot, you know this as well as I do, the trouble with leaving a job like yours and mine is when you spent a lot of your time serving the public and you believe in your heart that every day you get up you're trying to make lives better for people, that's a tough thing to lose. It doesn't matter what glitz or what compensation you get in return. That's a tough thing to lose.
PARKER: Governor Ed Rendell, congratulations and best of luck. Thanks for being with us.
Coming up, not all publicity is good publicity. Some of the lowest political moments of 2010. Next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
PARKER: As 2010 comes to a close, it's nice to remember all the stories that inspired us. But it's a lot more fun to remember the ones that made us cringe and wince and laugh out loud. Our friends at "Politico" have come up with some videos that went viral for better or worse.
SPITZER: Kathleen, mostly for worse. We've chosen three of our favorites. They proved that in the age of YouTube, everybody is fair game. Take Representative Bob Etheridge, Democrat from North Carolina. Remember when someone tried to ask him a question on camera. Take a look. Not a nice encounter.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Do you fully support the Obama agenda?
REP. BOB ETHERIDGE (D), NORTH CAROLINA: Who are you? Who are you?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Whoa.
ETHERIDGE: Who are you?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Whoa.
ETHERIDGE: Who are you?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I'm here --
ETHERIDGE: Tell me who you are.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We're just here for a project, sir.
ETHERIDGE: Tell me who you are.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We're just here for a project.
ETHERIDGE: I don't come --
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Please let go of my hand. ETHERIDGE: Tell me who you are.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PARKER: Who you? Who are you?
SPITZER: Not PR 101. It turned out the GOP was behind that little encounter. But let's face it, Congressman Etheridge did not handle it the way his staffers wanted him to no doubt. Now he is ex- congressman having lost his bid for re-election.
PARKER: Well, sometimes a politician doesn't need any help to put his foot in his mouth. Take Phil Davidson. He was running for the Republican nomination for county treasurer in Ohio. But let's let Mr. Davidson speak for himself.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
PHIL DAVIDSON (R), FMR. COUNTY TREASURER CANDIDATE: My name is Phil Davidson. And I am seeking my party's nomination for the position of Stark County treasurer from the village of Minerva. And I will not apologize for my tone tonight.
In terms of education, I have a bachelor's degree in sociology, a master's degree in public administration, and a master's degree in communication. I have been a Republican and I have been a Republican!
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PARKER: OK. I'd say whoever gave him that masters in communication must be thinking might want to reconsider that.
SPITZER: That was an online degree. That was an online diploma somewhere.
PARKER: Back of the matchbook.
Anyway, that video went completely viral. But I guess the people of Stark County, Ohio wanted somebody slightly less hyper. Sorry, Phil.
SPITZER: And it wasn't all rants and rages. Who can forget those crazy campaign ads that were everywhere this election year. Sue Lowden ran for Republican nomination for Senate from Nevada. It looks like a winner until she took on health care with, we're not making this up, a chicken. Of course, the opposition turned it into a campaign spoof. Take a look at this one.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SUE LOWDEN (R), FMR. U.S. SENATE CANDIDATE: You know, before we all started having health care in the olden days, our grandparents, they would bring a chicken to the doctor. They would say I'll paint your house. They would do, I mean, that's the old days of what people would do to get health care with their doctors.
Bring a chicken to the doctor. Bring a chicken to the doctor. Bring a chicken to the doctor.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SPITZER: Who says we're not going to miss campaign season? This is too good.
PARKER: Once you're with the chicken, you're pretty much cooked.
SPITZER: I think that was the end of that campaign and plucked as it were.
All right. Barter may be making a comeback. But Miss Lowden lost to Sharron Angle, who lost to Harry Reid. Here's the good news. Going viral may get you on YouTube, but it doesn't guarantee success.
PARKER: Solving health care with a chicken in every pot. Well, who knew it was that simple. When we come back, we'll get serious about health care with President Obama's former doctor. Stay with us.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
PARKER: Don't you just have this conversation with your patients anyway?
DR. DAVID SCHEINER, PRESIDENT OBAMA'S FORMER DOCTOR: Absolutely. I think it's like paying me to listen to a patient's heart and lungs. I think that should be a part of the normal examination.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
SPITZER: In the summer of 2009. Sarah Palin blindsided the health care debate when she wrote and we quote, "The America I know and love is not one in which my parents or my baby with Down syndrome will have to stand in front of Obama's 'death panel' so his bureaucrats can decide whether they are worthy of health care. Such a system is downright evil."
In the controversy that followed, the idea of Medicare supported end-of-life counseling was dropped from the legislation.
PARKER: And now, it's back. Starting January 1st, new regulations proposed by the Obama administration are going to reimburse doctors for advising patients on end-of-life care. Why would the administration resurrect death panels? Joining us are two health care experts, Professor Kenneth Thorpe, head of the Department of Health Policy at Emory University, and Dr. David Scheiner who for 22 years was President Obama's personal physician in Chicago.
Welcome, gentlemen.
DR. DAVID SCHEINER, PRESIDENT OBAMA'S FORMER DOCTOR: Thank you.
PROFESSOR KENNETH THORPE, EMORY UNIVERSITY: Thank you. SPITZER: All right. First, Professor Thorpe, let me ask you this question. Does what the president is going to do through regulation in terms of end-of-life counseling have anything to do with death panels? Can you just shed light on what has become an unfortunate, my view, a terribly unfortunate phrase to capture a critically important issue?
THORPE: Well, I agree it is incredibly unfortunate. Became the poster child I think of the opposition's attempts to kill the health care bill.
All we're talking about here is providing funding for physicians to have a discussion with their patients on options at the end of life. It's empowering patients. It's giving patients information about how they may proceed if they have a terminal illness, about how aggressive they want to be, what impact, different treatment options may have on longevity, the quality of their life, their health care prospects. It's something that any patient in any family would want to have information about.
PARKER: Doctor Scheiner, don't you just have this conversation with your patients anyway?
SCHEINER: Yes, absolutely. I think it's like paying me to listen to a patient's heart and lungs. I think should be part of the normal examination. I think it's good it was added because I think it will bring to the fore that whole issue. I think doctors too often neglect doing this kind of thing.
Last week, I was involved in two personal end-of-life situations. One was a woman, 72 years old who, had obvious end-stage lung cancer. And the oncologists were already to start more PET scans and more CT scans and chemotherapy. And the patient and her sister and I sat down. We talked about it. We decided hospice care was the best way to go. We would have tortured this poor woman to weigh 80 pounds.
Death panel is pure demagoguery. This is a part of taking care of a patient. We should be talking about this. I signed my advance directives for my own self when I was in my early 50s. I think we should probably be talking about this to people in their 20s or 30s. Situations could arrive, arise, where they might be in an accident or something and they wouldn't want to be kept alive on a machine.
SPITZER: Doctor, let me --
SCHEINER: This is something that should be addressed constantly.
SPITZER: I want to just ask a question so that everybody listening can understand what we are and are not talking about here. What we are talking about is, and you use the phrase advance directives that let the patient determine what measures should or should not be taken in an end-of-life context. This has nothing to do with the government mandating what steps will or will not be taken. Is that correct?
THORPE: That's absolutely correct. Yes. This is a completely voluntary discussion that would go on between a physician, the family, and a patient, about treatment options. I think as the doctor just mentioned, you know today only about 20 to 30 percent of the population has an advance directive. Well, before I could really put together an advance directive for myself, I need to know what types of options would be available to me in a case of a severe trauma case as was just mentioned. What are the options? What are the prospects for living? What are the impacts on the quality of my life?
I as an empowered consumer can't really think through those options very clearly unless I have that type of information and my family does as well.
PARKER: Well, I can put this in a little bit of personal perspective because my father actually died in the intensive care unit there at John DeLong at Emory University's John DeLong hospital. And he was there for two weeks and I would give anything if he had had some kind of directive in place. Because as it turned out, way too much was done to him. And it was a terrible process for everyone. It's an ordeal for him certainly.
SCHEINER: It's an issue that just should be on the forefront all the time. We just don't discuss it.
PARKER: All right, gentlemen, we want to continue this conversation but we have to take a quick break. We'll be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
PARKER: We're back with Dr. David Scheiner and Professor Kenneth Thorpe.
Dr. Scheiner, I want to ask you just something for clarification or perhaps this is for the professor. I'll toss it out to either one of you. I think one thing that needs to be clarified is the concern could be that if you go ahead now at a healthy age and you outline what you think you would find acceptable or unacceptable, then you fast forward and suddenly you're maybe elderly or you're sick, and then you think well, you know, maybe I went, maybe I was too quick to make those judgments, based on my good health and my youth at the time. Is there a way to revamp that so that you're not stuck with the decision?
SCHEINER: Yes, with ease. No problem at all. You just say I've changed my mind. That's no problem at all. It happens. I've seen it happen where people change their mind.
SPITZER: You know, actually --
SCHEINER: That's not an issue.
PARKER: That's reassuring.
SPITZER: I'm holding -- I just pointed online today, Kathleen, printed out a New York state advance directive. This is an easy form to fill out. It takes a couple witnesses and it forces patients to make the very sorts of judgments that the doctors have suggested they make. And I would, I know when I was in government as an attorney general and as governor, one of the overarching health care pursuits of state government was to get people to fill this out. It was an empowerment of patients. And that's why it was so tragic when this issue became wrapped up, as the doctor said, the demagoguery of the health care debate which called it death panels. Nothing could be farther from the truth. And I think doctors, tell me if you agree. It's a wonderful thing that an effort will be made to promote patient thought about this very difficult issue.
THORPE: Absolutely. And I applaud the administration for bringing this back in and really cutting through a lot of politics of this.
SPITZER: It seems to me one of the areas where perhaps it has been legitimately criticized is that not enough was done to control costs. Did a good job expanding the reach of care, probably did some good things in terms of quality. But the third critical metric, which is cost, people are ambiguous about whether we will, in fact, rein in costs. What do you as doctors feel will happen in terms of cost control under President Obama's health care plan.
SCHEINER: Well, you know, I don't think controls of the cost of health care are being attacked very well at all. Physicians are perhaps the major reason that health care costs keep going up. Physicians do a lot of things. They order a lot of tests that are unnecessary. And it costs a great deal of money.
Now physicians will say well, I'm doing it for defensive purposes because I don't want to be sued. That's really a poor excuse. That does play some role, but it's not the major thing. The major reason people, physicians get tests that are unnecessary is out of ignorance.
SPITZER: All right. Professor Kenneth Thorpe, Dr. David Scheiner, thank you so much for joining us. We will have to continue this conversation about cost control and all these other demagogue issues like death panels in the future. Thanks so much for joining us.
PARKER: Thank you.
THORPE: Thanks for having us.
SPITZER: Good night from New York. "LARRY KING" starts right now.
