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Parker Spitzer
Madison Democratic Senators on the Lam; Mideast Governments Crack Down on Demonstrations; Government Shutdown?
Aired February 17, 2011 - 20:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
KATHLEEN PARKER, CNN ANCHOR: Good evening, I'm Kathleen Parker.
ALI VELSHI, CNN ANCHOR: And I'm Ali Velshi sitting in for Eliot Spitzer. Eliot is off tonight.
We begin with our dysfunctional democracy and Washington, it's 1995 all over again as Republicans and Democrats dig in for what may turn out to be a complete government shutdown.
And in Wisconsin the state Senate is already shut down as Democratic senators choose flight over fight in a hotly-contested budget battle.
PARKER: It all started on Tuesday as more than 10,000 teachers, state employees and their supporters jammed the capitol grounds to protest the state's budget repair bill.
The bill not only cuts health and pension benefits for state employees it also takes away their collective bargaining rights.
VELSHI: Now today that controversial bill scheduled to come to a vote. But then, 14 Democratic senators -- listen to this -- got the hell out of dodge. Law enforcement officers were looking for them. They searched for the missing senators but the Democrats made a run for the state line.
And by leaving Wisconsin the senators deprived the Senate of a quorum and that meant postponing the passage of that budget bill. So stymied by these disappearing Democratic senators, the state Senate adjourned for the day.
PARKER: The disappearing senators.
All right. President Obama weighed in on the controversy calling the governor's actions an assault on the unions. House Speaker John Boehner also responded criticizing the president for attacking the Republican governor.
The thousands of demonstrators are clearly inspired by the pro- democracy protesters in the Middle East and the AWOL lawmakers defend their run for the border as upholding democratic process.
VELSHI: But, Kathleen, there is an important distinction. And that is that this is Wisconsin. It's not Egypt. Governor Scott Walker won a popular election as did the Republican-controlled Senate. Now the state employees may have good reasons for not liking the budget bill, but as Governor Walker said of those missing Democratic senators, quote, "Their actions by leaving the state and hiding from voting are disrespectful to the millions of taxpayers they represent."
PARKER: I don't know. Senators on the lam in undisclosed locations over state lines. To avoid state troopers? This is what it's come to in Wisconsin politics to keep the budget fight going.
Our operatives have tracked down one of the missing Democrats, Senator Jon Erpenbach who joins us live from an undisclosed Midwestern American city.
Welcome, Senator.
JON ERPENBACH (D), WISCONSIN STATE SENATE: Hi, how are you?
PARKER: All right. Well, Senator, what's it going to take to get you to go back?
ERPENBACH: Well, what we're trying to do is slow things down here a little bit. Look, we all know that the governor is going to get his money from the public employees. We all know that.
This is issue is about a couple of things. First of all, the bill was introduced last Friday and he wants it law tomorrow. This is a major sweeping change in the state of Wisconsin and we need to slow things down. Our budget cycle doesn't end until June 30th so we have sometime.
The biggest issue we're trying to deal with here right now is what the governor is trying to do is he's trying to destroy unions. Just flat-out bust unions with this bill and that particular language has no business in this legislation.
VELSHI: Senator, let's just discuss this for a second.
The Republicans won the election. They control the Senate. The governor is a Republican. It's not a particular secret that this is something that the -- this administration wanted to do. And this isn't a filibuster what you and your Democratic colleagues are doing. You have -- you've gotten out of the city.
How does this make sense democratically? How do you defend yourself against accusations that this is just not democracy at work?
ERPENBACH: Well, actually, it is democracy in work and we're doing our jobs by standing up and representing, you know, thousands of people -- at least from Senate district who have contacted me, who have said, please stop this, please slow this down.
And all we're trying to do is just slow the process down so people can take a look at the legislation, see what kind of impact it has on them, but in the end, like I said, the governor is going to get his money. The public employees are more than willing to pay their fair share.
The biggest concern a lot of us have aside from a Medicare takeover that the governor is trying to do with the badger care programs and senior care that we have in the state is the fact that he's trying to flat-out bust unions. And the legislature as a whole in every state -- we're there to protect rights. We're actually there to expand rights not take them away like this.
PARKER: Well, Senator, I'm curious to know how that's actually came to be. Who decided that you all should go ahead and scoot out of town? Or get out of -- get the hell out of dodge.
(CROSSTALK)
ERPENBACH: Well, we got -- yes, we got -- or Madison in this case. We got together this morning outside of the capital and talked about our options. We had a number of amendments and we're ready to go to the floor this morning and start that process, but it became very clear from the Republican leadership that none of our amendments would be considered or even adopted to the legislation.
So we really only had one option and the option was to slow it down, and let the thousands of protester that are showing up in Madison, let their voices be heard and also the thousands of protesters that are showing up all over the state of Wisconsin.
Again, this bill is introduced last Friday. He wants it law today. This is microwave legislation at its absolute, positive worst.
VELSHI: Let me ask you this. You say you want to slow it down. It sounds like you actually want to heat it up. Is the hope that this action is going to cause those protesters to come out again tomorrow for these protests to get bigger until the governor actually says, OK, hold on, we're going to change things?
Because the bottom line is, there are still 14 of you and 19 of them. So once you decide to get back, and at some point, you're going to have to, you're going to lose this vote.
ERPENBACH: Oh, no. And that's a really good point. We fully expect to take a vote on something, whether it's exactly this or something a little bit different remains to be seen.
We also know that they do have the votes, but they also have a responsibility to take a piece of legislation that right now is tearing Wisconsin apart and trying to bring two sides together and move forward that way, as opposed to just saying OK, this is the way we're going to do it. Too bad. If you don't like it, you can leave.
And that's not the way to govern a state. The governor has been in office now for about a month and a half. He had a good start. He had a lot of momentum going into his term but unfortunately he threw all that out the window with this particular piece of legislation.
PARKER: Well, Senator, certainly other states have similar budget problems and pensions -- ERPENBACH: Right.
PARKER: -- they can't pay for. So do you expect this to happen in other states? Are we going to have a Madison effect as we've had an Egypt effect?
ERPENBACH: Well, I -- no, that's a good question and it's a good point. This is actually what's called a budget repair bill. We're repairing a previous budget. And guess the how big the deficit is for that. It's $130 million.
We have already in the state legislature and the governor signed into law $150 million worth of business tax breaks in Wisconsin. We have passed more legislation worth more tax breaks that we could have saved to fill this hole and this bill wasn't necessary.
So again the governor's intentions on the legislation to bust unions is very, very clear. He's going to get the money to dig us out of this hole but at the same time he does have a responsibility to govern by consensus as best as he possibly can, and he's not doing that.
VELSHI: Senator Jon Erpenbach, thanks for joining us from wherever you are.
ERPENBACH: Thank you.
VELSHI: We'll follow the story very closely.
ERPENBACH: All right.
VELSHI: Joining us now is someone who didn't flee Madison, who's been covering this protest from the beginning.
John Nichols -- boy, he's been there for a long time. He's a seventh generation Wisconsin native. He's also the associate editor for "The Capital Times" and a contributing editor for "The Nation."
John, welcome to the show. What's the scene? What's the situation both politically and on the ground in Madison, Wisconsin, right now?
JOHN NICHOLS, ASSOCIATE EDITOR, THE CAPITAL TIMES: Well, let's start on the ground. I'm speaking to you from just outside the state capital as you can see.
There was just a rally with -- I would say in the range of 15,000 to 20,000 teachers and --
VELSHI: Wow.
NICHOLS: And other public employees. The firefighters, easily 500 firefighters marched in in full uniform. The governor had attempted to exempt the firefighters from this deal, said this doesn't affect you. But the firefighters' unions, having seen the level of the protests, decided to join. It's quite an epic scene. There's still I would estimate 4,000 or 5,000 people inside the capitol right now. There's probably another good 4,000 or 5,000 out on the square. And the energy is quite remarkable. I have been here my entire life. My great, great, great, great, great grandfather started a tavern on the next corner here. And I've talked to all the old-timers, nobody has ever seen anything like it.
Now politically -- you ask about the politics -- what has happened here is something that is very much in keeping with the Wisconsin tradition. We believe in a phrase uttered by Robert M. La Follette, our great senator, and that is that democracy is a life. It doesn't just occur on election day, it occurs every day.
And so when citizens come out to protest, to petition for the redress of their grievances, we do expect our legislators to listen. Now people can disagree about whether the Democrats did the right thing, but I can tell you that what they did is something that is very much in keeping with Wisconsin traditions.
And I have a feeling that there'll be a great debate about who the heroes are. Whether it's Governor Walker or these Democratic legislators. Sometimes that will come down to partisan politics but at other times I think there is a good fighting Wisconsin spirit that likes the idea of saying no when big government wants to do something.
PARKER: Well, John, this is Kathleen Parker. The Senate adjourned tonight unable to vote.
NICHOLS: Hey, hey, hey. I'm sorry. I can't hear you -- I said something the crowd liked. OK? I'll try to say something they don't like now.
(LAUGHTER)
PARKER: So that's what it's like. Well, listen, what I was --
NICHOLS: It's like that. I hate to tell you.
PARKER: Yes. What I was trying to say is that the Senate did adjourn tonight, unable to cast a vote, so wouldn't this suggest that the Democratic strategy worked?
NICHOLS: Yes, sure, it worked for tonight but I -- you guys have been asking the right questions. At some point folks are going to have to come back and we're going to have to have some votes.
Now the real question is, is whether the moderate Republicans who have advanced an alternative proposal will prevail here. Two Republican senators stepped up a couple of days ago and said, look, the governor's gone too far. We would like to do a lot of the pay cuts, some of the benefit cuts, but we want to let the unions maintain their collective bargaining rights.
We want to respect the fact that AFSCME, the State County and Municipal Employees Union, was founded in Wisconsin in 1932. And that we've had collective bargaining rights for more than 50 years.
So if those moderate Republicans prevail in finding a compromise here, I think then we will see the legislative process gets started again and the governor will get a lot of what he wants but he may not get everything.
VELSHI: John, let me ask you this. I don't think the crowd is going to cheer me on this one. But the fact of the matter is, this is a democratic process. While people have drawn inspiration from some very successful process around the world, the Republicans did win. It is a Republican governor. And this isn't a big surprise that the Republican governor and controlled-Senate wants to do this.
At some point don't you have to let them do it?
NICHOLS: Ali, could I correct -- could I -- could I --
VELSHI: Sure.
NICHOLS: Correct you on one thing. It is a big surprise. Governor Walker who's been a friend of mine for many, many years, his dad pastored my -- my sister's family's church. He campaigned and I followed him every step of the campaign. He never said anything about attacking collective bargaining rights. He never said anything about going to this extent so it's a huge surprise to Wisconsinites. This was not expected at all.
Scott Walker campaigned as someone who said he wanted to bring the state together, wanted to address fiscal problems. People expected him to be a conservative. They did not expect him to try and really eliminate trade unions in the public sector.
PARKER: All right, John Nichols, thanks so much for joining us.
VELSHI: Coming up next --
NICHOLS: It's been a great -- for covering this big story.
VELSHI: Thank you, John. We appreciate it. And thanks to the crowd. That's an applause. I don't think it's for us.
PARKER: See, you got the applause finally.
VELSHI: That's the first time in my entire time in TV.
All right. Coming up, we've got another big, big story we're covering, and those are those protests about basic rights across the world. A live report from Bahrain where riot police left four dead in a predawn raid on protesters. Shocking details and the scene on the street. We're going live to Bahrain when we come back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
VELSHI: Tonight anti-government protests continue to rock the Middle East.
Take a look. At least 27 people were killed today. Hundreds injured as demonstrations across the region turned brutally violent.
On the left of your screen, Libya. Security forces crack down on a youth organized day of rage reportedly leaving 21 protesters dead. We don't have journalists there so it's hard for us to confirm that. Unfazed however, President Muammar Gadhafi today appeared before a cheering throng of supporters. And that's footage that Libyan state TV was quick to broadcast.
In Yemen, one person was killed as stone-throwing and anti- government groups faced off in the streets.
Even in Iraq, years of sectarian violence turned to outrage over unemployment and lack of basic services. Hundreds of protesters clashed with government forces and at least one person was killed there.
PARKER: And maybe the most shocking violence erupted in Bahrain. The army has now seized control in the capital city of Manama after at least four people were killed and hundreds injured in an early-morning attack by riot police.
Armed with bird shot, rubber bullets and teargas, they opened fire on protesters in Pearl Square, many of them sleeping after a peaceful day of demonstrations.
Secretary of State Hillary Clinton today called the Bahraini government to show restraint, but an official insists the clampdown came only after, quote, "all opportunities for dialogue with the protesters had been exhausted."
VELSHI: What a story.
Arwa Damon is in Manama, Bahrain, tonight. She joins us via Skype.
Arwa, we knew that there were tensions in Bahrain. It's been going on for years. But I don't think anybody expected that the tensions in the streets of Bahrain would reach the heights that they have now.
What's the situation on the ground?
ARWA DAMON, CNN CORRESPONDENT: No, they truly didn't and what we keep hearing from the demonstrators especially at the hospital that we were just at is how shocked they are, many of them saying that in their wildest of imaginations when they thought about the consequences of what their actions would be, they never for once thought that the government would use this type of force to try to break up the demonstrations.
The site of the square -- Pearl Square -- since that crackdown has been cordoned off. There have been no demonstrations there, but we have been seeing multiple police checkpoints around the area, even some military personnel. The demonstrators much smaller, a pocket (ph) of them actually taking up position at the hospital itself where many of the wounded and those who were killed were taken to. They were praying in one part of the hospital and another corner basically lying down on blankets and sleeping.
PARKER: Well, Arwa, this is Kathleen.
The idea of people being attacked while they are sleeping is so shocking. But don't we think that the crackdown will actually harden the opposition movement.
DAMON: Well, actually, that's a very good point because that is exactly what it has done. We spoke with one woman who was down at the demonstration site with her daughters actually, ages 6 and 8. She was sleeping in a tent with other women and their children.
She says that they woke up coughing, choking on teargas. And that at that point they did not leave the tent. They used onions -- they shoved them up their noses and that counteracts the effects of the teargas. But then they claim that the police actually set the tent on fire to try to drive them out. And that truly was a shocking, shocking and very disturbing story and strategy to have used.
Now we did hear from the foreign minister who said that the protesters were given adequate warning by the police, that they told them to evacuate the square before they attack, but all of the demonstrators who we spoke to categorically denied ever hearing any sort of an announcement, denied that that announcement even took place -- Kathleen.
VELSHI: Arwa, earlier the special envoy from -- special envoy from Bahrain to the United States told Candy Crowley on "THE SITUATION ROOM" that the government's response was proportionate to the force or violence that was being used by the protesters. Now the government used rubber bullets, they used teargas.
What's the sense? Do you know what the protesters used that the government can say that their response was proportionate?
DAMON: Yes. We also heard that from the foreign minister, as well. And the government did come out saying that they found weapons amongst the protesters and that they had themselves -- the police sustained injuries, as well.
And we spoke to the protesters. They swore that they were not armed with anything at all. Not even a stone. They categorically denied that their protests were anything but peaceful and that is why they say the government's actions were so shocking.
In fact, while we were at the hospital a young man passed away. He died as doctors were trying to save his life. He bled out. We were speaking with his family. His brother was with him that night. He also said that the demonstrations were largely peaceful when the police ended up attacking the demonstration site. He was separated from him.
He had this message to everybody at the international community. And that was that his brother's death, his brother's blood should not have been spilled in vain, and he was pleading, as was everybody else, for support from the international community but also vowing, especially in light of the violence that took place, that they would absolutely not let down. Their demonstrations were going to continue.
PARKER: All right. Arwa Damon, thank you so much for that report.
Now to "The New York Times" columnist Nicholas Kristof who's been in Bahrain for several days. He joins us by phone.
Nick, can you describe what the mood is like on the streets there right now?
NICHOLAS KRISTOF, NEW YORK TIMES COLUMNIST (via phone): Well, the streets are frankly pretty empty. People are scared. And in -- there is a small demonstration at the hospital and people are chanting slogans against the government. They're saying that they will stay there until the government falls, but when I was there just now there were, you know, a lot of rumors that the police were about to attack and people were scared.
There's a lot of fear. Tomorrow there are going to be some demonstrations and it -- the expectation is government will deal very, very firmly with them. We'll have to see.
PARKER: Well, how do you feel personally? I understand that you've been tweeting and some of the government forces are not happy with you specifically. What kind of pressures are you feeling?
KRISTOF: One member of the royal family was accusing me of running guns to outlaws which to me just confirmed that degree of delusion there. And just the way this propaganda is just so bizarre. But at the end of the day, the pressures on me are -- you know, I'm a foreign reporter. I can leave but what breaks my heart is what the regime is doing to the people here.
I was -- when I was over at the hospital just now, I met a doctor, a middle aged doctor named Sadiq al-Ekri. He had just come back from a trip to Houston. He was on the roundabout treating the injured and the riot police came up. He identified himself as a doctor. They handcuffed him, threw him to the ground, beat him and kicked him.
PARKER: Wow.
KRISTOF: And just -- I mean, he's a battered pulp now. And pulled down his pants and -- to rape him.
PARKER: Oh my god.
KRISTOF: They did abandon that idea. But when that happens to a distinguished plastic surgeon -- he was well-known in the Bahrain community -- then you can imagine what happens to more ordinary people.
VELSHI: Wow. PARKER: Right.
KRISTOF: And to see this happening here just breaks my heart.
VELSHI: Nick, part of the difference here between Tunisia and Egypt is that those other places, those weren't sectarian battles between people who identify themselves differently. Here in Bahrain there really is sectarian differences. There's a Shia majority population and a Sunni leadership and royalty.
KRISTOF: That's right. And that kind of terrifies the regime here. And it's a basic problem with advancing towards democracy because the royal family here knows that if you do give real voice to the Bahraini people then they're finished, because the Sunni family -- the Sunni family's history is based in large part on exploiting the Shiite population.
PARKER: Nick, how would you describe the American population there other than the naval presence and what are they being told by our embassy?
KRISTOF: There's a very large American population here. This is a banking center. It is - it's just so different from the kind of place you expect to see this kind of really brutal crackdown taking place. This is a banking center. There are an awful lot of expats here. It's also a base for people who work in Saudi Arabia or elsewhere in the Gulf to keep their families.
Bahrain has always been an incredibly safe place. And people -- I'd say the American community is very nervous, scared. Some people are leaving, are flying out. But I should also say that -- you know, there's no indication that anybody is targeting the foreign community. This is really between a government and its -- the rest of the population.
VELSHI: "New York Times" columnist Nicholas Kristof -- Nick, stay safe. Thanks for joining us.
KRISTOF: I'll do that.
PARKER: When we return, reckless and irresponsible. Those are the words Democrats are using to describe Republicans, and we'll tell you why when we return.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
VELSHI: It's a showdown on Capitol Hill. Within the next 24 hours, the House is set to vote on a Republican plan to slash over $60 billion from this year's budget. But Senate Democrats and the Obama administration are not going along with those cuts.
The clock is ticking. The heat is on lawmakers. They've got to agree on how to fund the rest of the year. That's 2011's budget or the government shuts down.
Tonight, the two sides aren't even close. The fight is over the CR, that's the continuing resolution. That's what's keeping the lights on in Washington in the short term.
Listen to this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REP. JOHN BOEHNER (R), HOUSE SPEAKER: Our goal here is to cut spending. But I'm not going to move any kind of short-term CR at current levels. When we say we're going to cut spending, read my lips. We're going to cut spending.
SEN. HARRY REID (D), MAJORITY LEADER: We're terribly disappointed that Speaker Boehner can't control the votes in his caucus who are going to shutdown of government. And now he's resorting to threats to do just that without any negotiations.
(END OF VIDEO CLIP)
PARKER: Well, looks like we're back to reading lips. The current short-term funding plan is set to expire on March 4th. So are we going to see the lights go off?
Joining us tonight from Washington is the ranking member of the House Budget Committee, Congressman Chris Van Hollen, Democrat from Maryland.
Congressman, thank so much for joining us.
REP. CHRIS VAN HOLLEN (D), MARYLAND: It's great to be with you.
PARKER: All right. So, Congressman, are we going to have a government shutdown or are you guys going to reach an agreement in the next two weeks?
VAN HOLLEN: Well, I certainly hope we don't have a government shutdown but the comments that Speaker Boehner made today were it's my way or the highway. And -- unless we get what we want right now, we're not going to extend the continuing resolution as we call it even for a short period of time as we negotiate.
So if that's the way they're headed what they're calling for effectively is a government shutdown and that is a big mistake, and I hope that cooler heads will prevail.
VELSHI: Congressman Van Hollen, in November Americans told you and your party they don't want people digging in their heels and not coming to compromises in solutions. So where are we going to actually see the compromises that keep this government running?
VAN HOLLEN: Well, you're right. And what will happen here is that the Republicans that have the majority in the House will take what we believe are very reckless cuts because the impact on jobs and the economy and they'll send that bill over to the Senate. And at that point in time, you begin to have a discussion between the House and the Senate and the White House as to what we should be doing for the remainder of this year. But what Speaker Boehner just said today is it's my way or the highway. In other words, before we even negotiate, I'm laying down conditions. And that's not compromise. And the biggest challenge we've got with the new majority in the House is whether there's a willingness to reach sensible compromise because a lot of folks who have come here have taken the position that compromise is a dirty word and if that remains their view we're going to have an awful tough time.
PARKER: Well, but, Congressman, for the benefit of the viewers, can you give us a specific example of something in the bill that you don't like that you absolutely can't tolerate?
VAN HOLLEN: Well, I do not like the deep cuts made in head start programs and education programs. That is a very shortsighted approach. We need to invest in our kids, invest in our future. That's just one example. If you add these things up in aggregate, the impact on the economy will be very bad and that's why, again, this isn't my view. The bipartisanship commission that was responsible for coming up with a plan for debt reduction warned against immediate deep cuts.
VELSHI: You mentioned the bipartisan commission. I'm just looking, I was looking at the guiding principles of the bipartisan commission and the second point is sort of first do no harm. Basically it says don't disrupt the fragile economic recovery. You just mentioned that.
This becomes an ideological debate after a while, does it not as to what's going to disrupt the recovery or not? Some people are going to say if you don't cut taxes and you don't cut spending, you're disrupting the recovery. Others are going to say if government stops investing in place of businesses and consumers who haven't stepped up to the plate yet, you're going to wreck the recovery. How do you come to terms on really an ideological separation on that?
VAN HOLLEN: Well, the reason it's important that the bipartisan commission said don't cut deeply immediately is exactly to make the point you're saying, which is those were folks from both sides of the ideological spectrum coming up and saying, yes, let's act now to put in a place a plan that reduces our deficit and debt over in a predictable way but coming together on a bipartisan basis to say bad idea to try and do it all at once immediately because it will hurt jobs. And so, the ideological -- the different ideological views on the commission were able to come to consensus on this and that's why we're asking our Republican colleagues to support an approach that says yes to cuts in government spending but let's not risk jobs in the process.
PARKER: All right. Congressman Chris Van Hollen, thank you so much for your time.
VAN HOLLEN: Thank you.
VELSHI: You know, Kathleen, we were discussing earlier that I think there are a lot of people, even conservatives who have come around to the view that taxes are probably going to go up. There's no way you can look at the map of a budget and say that's not going to happen.
PARKER: Absolutely.
VELSHI: I think those same people want assurances that this government can administer a budget well and you were saying there are a lot of people given that assurance they'll say, OK, I'll pay a little bit more. I need to know that the money has been spent properly.
PARKER: Absolutely. You know, I'm normal. I don't want to pay more taxes, but I can see that we can't solve these problems without cuts and without raising taxes. I know it's going to come. I mean, it's --
VELSHI: So it's going to pay more --
PARKER: And I would be willing to play my part clearly but I want to make sure they do their part which is to be responsible and stop spending money gratuitously and not being efficient in their management of our government over there.
VELSHI: I want to finish this. We're going to send you to Washington to try and sort this out. We'll be back in a minute.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
PARKER: Game on in Washington. We just heard all that talk about shutting down the government. When Bill Clinton was president, it happened twice. So we're thinking, what exactly would a government shutdown look like today?
Here are some examples. The Centers for Disease Control and Prevention pull back on monitoring infectious diseases. Hotline calls go unanswered. National parks close with the loss of millions of visitors which, of course, means lost revenues to local communities. Passports go unprocessed. International travel in and out of the U.S. takes a huge hit. Airlines will sustain millions of dollars in losses. Veterans services and benefits are limited. Everything from medical to welfare to finance. And elephants in the national zoo have to do their business in the parking lot. There's no funding to pay to clean it up.
VELSHI: Now some services, Kathleen, are deemed essential. They're going to continue even if the government does shut down. Here are a few of the untouchables.
Emergency and disaster assistance in case there's another Hurricane Katrina or gulf oil spill because the government is so good at that stuff. Border patrols and coastal protection, so the immigration controversy can continue to polarize and divide the nation. Air traffic control and transportation safety, which means there'll be no let-up in airport delays and humiliating body scans. And, of course, members of Congress and the president will continue to be paid. Or maybe not. Today, Senators Boxer and Casey introduced a bill that would force Congress and the president to lose their pay like every other civil servant in the event of a government shutdown. Maybe that makes both sides sit down and get serious about compromise. We'll be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
VELSHI: Girls just want to have guns. Yes, I said guns. That is the claim and the Web site of our next guest Regis Giles. Regis is a student activist. She's a defender and avid defender of the Second Amendment and avid hunter. And watch this, you'll get the point.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Girls just want to have guns. At least this one does.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PARKER: Regis came to our attention after giving this rousing speech at CPAC last week. Take a listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REGIS GILES, CREATOR, GIRLSJUSTWANNAHAVEGUNS.COM: I am sick and tired of seeing defenseless girls being abducted in broad daylight by some perverted freak who gets aroused by raping and murdering them. My company stands for those girls who decided to defend themselves, arm themselves with a gun that will pump lead into an attacker at 1,200 feet per second.
(APPLAUSE)
I want to see more of news headlines stating girls kill attacker with guns than girl found dead after being raped and choked to death.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PARKER: She's also the star of the upcoming reality show called "Primal Urge." All of this at the age of just 19. Regis Giles joins us now from Miami.
Welcome, Regis.
REGIS GILES, CREATOR, GIRLSJUSTWANNAHAVEGUNS.COM: Hi, how are you?
PARKER: Good. So Regis, you're only 19. So tell us what got you so involved in activism and defending the Second Amendment.
GILES: Well, I grew up in Miami and my parents were, you know, a little bit worried about us running around. They didn't want us to be caged in but they also wanted us to be ready for any situation. So, at the age of 9 my parents enrolled my sister and I into Valente Brothers jiu-jitsu. It's a Brazilian jiu-jitsu martial art and I started from there. Also, at age 9, I started shooting. And it kind of stemmed from there.
I found the importance of self defense, and it's very crucial and I think that it's my mission now to let women know how crucial it is. And, you know, whether it be a martial art, a taser or gun, I want them to be armed.
VELSHI: Regis, I'm scared of asking you the wrong question because you know jiu-jitsu and knew how to shoot a gun before the age of 10 and then you took up hunting. Who is your audience for this because I don't know that I've ever met a woman like you?
GILES: Who is -- my audience is for every woman out there who is concerned for their safety.
VELSHI: But do you -- you are -- you know how to hunt. You've hunted on your Web site. I saw pictures of you with a bear and a bison that you had shot. I mean, you -- this is not typical of 19- year-old women.
GILES: You're correct. It isn't typical but, you know, I want to -- I'm different, I guess. I want people to see that I'm different. I want little girls to, you know, enjoy it, as well.
PARKER: Well, you're definitely different because I also learned that you hunted a wild boar with a spear.
GILES: Yes.
PARKER: What was that like? And what did you wear?
GILES: That was -- oh, my gosh. OK. I wore cargo pants and a very nice plaid t-shirt. It looks very well and the experience was very intense.
I walked up to the wild boar while he was fighting with one of our tracker dogs. And so I had to get in there and get ready to, you know, stab this hog and I found the spot which is the heart right behind the shoulder and I just kind of stuck him in there and he was done. It was pretty painless for him. He didn't feel anything.
VELSHI: No doubt.
PARKER: Well, we call that a clean kill.
GILES: It was a clean kill.
PARKER: And, by the way, if a wild boar was attacking my dog, I would spear him in the heart, too.
GILES: Yes.
VELSHI: But let me ask you this at CPAC --
GILES: Well, and he tasted pretty good, too.
PARKER: Excellent. I'm happy you ate him. That makes me feel better.
VELSHI: OK. At your speech at CPAC, Regis, was about empowerment of women. I mean, ultimately you're talking about giving women power to do things.
GILES: Right.
VELSHI: And yet, you very specifically do not identify as a feminist.
GILES: Yes, that's correct. I actually, you know, I believe in women empowering themselves with self defense, being able to handle an attacker situation. But I also believe in gender role. I believe women, you know, have a certain role in society and men have a certain role in society, and I don't think that's a bad thing at all. I think each human is unique and each sex is unique and I think that is -- we should play to that role pretty much.
PARKER: Regis, I have noticed that lately a lot of women, particularly conservative women, Republican women want to be shown -- want to appear with guns. Do you think -- is that something to do with the Second Amendment or does it have sex appeal or is it all of the above? What's going on there?
GILES: I wouldn't be able to answer that question. I just know that it is very empowering to hold a gun.
PARKER: Yes.
VELSHI: You're not -- I notice you said on your blog when somebody asked you how'd you become this way? You said, if you knew my family you'd understand.
GILES: Right.
PARKER: Well, you grew up in a hunting family.
GILES: Yes. My family was raised in Texas. My parents were raised in Texas. I was raised down in Miami. But, you know, the hunting culture was instilled in me so I'm glad it was. I enjoy every minute of it.
PARKER: All right. Regis Giles, thank you so much for being with us and good luck with your new reality show. When we come back --
GILES: Thank you.
PARKER: When we come back, more on today's wave of violent crackdowns in the Middle East as dictators from Bahrain to Libya turn on their own people. A look at what lies ahead when we come back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
VELSHI: We're turning now to the turmoil in the Middle East. There has been tremendous violence today in Bahrain, Yemen, Iraq and Libya. Riot police attacked demonstrators with clubs, teargas and rubber bullets. IN all, at least we know of 27 reported dead and hundreds wounded across the region.
PARKER: And joining us to help make sense of the fast-moving events is Rami Khouri, a director at the American University in Beirut, a syndicated columnist with "The Daily Star," an American language newspaper in Beirut and a keen observer of the events in the region. Thanks for joining us.
RAMI KHOURI, AMERICAN UNIVERSITY OF BEIRUT: My pleasure.
PARKER: So let's just start with Bahrain. How do you see things playing out in the next few days?
KHOURI: Bahrain is really significant because it's the first gulf monarchy that is being subjected to these kinds of popular pressures. People in Bahrain have been pushing their regime for years and years, but this is the first time they are in the streets and the police are killing people and it's rising to a crescendo. So it's really huge because of what the implications are for the gulf.
PARKER: It's a monarchy but it's also an important ally for us. It's a cosmopolitan city. It's an international banking center. Were you surprised by the brutality of the response from the government?
KHOURI: Not at all. Bahrain and many of the Arab governments have run very tight security systems, in many cases advised by the British and people in Asia and other places. And it's not a surprise at all. They have been unable to come to grips with the basic concept that good governance requires the consent of the governed and that hasn't happened yet. And this is an overreaction and the more they overreact, the more pressure is going to come at them from their own people.
VELSHI: Good governance requiring the consent of the governed is not the same as democracy. In a lot of these countries, there had been demonstrations in the past. In Bahrain, there's universal suffrage but in effect of parliament. Isn't it the case that across many of these Arab states there have been some sense that we don't need full democracy as long as things are working but when they stopped working --
KHOURI: Yes and no. I mean, people all over the world and Korea and Taiwan and China, all over the world, they put up with non- democratic systems as long as their living standards were improving and their kids' future was going to be better than theirs. People put up with non-democratic systems.
In the Arab world, that was the case from the 1930s to the 1980s but when economic conditions slowed down and the Arab modern security state took hold in the 1970s and for the last 30, 40 years, you've had Arab security states and some cases authoritarian police states and people have just had enough and they pushed back. Democracy is one form of good governance. People are -- what people are asking for, they're not calling for democracy that much. They're calling for dignity, justice, freedom. VELSHI: And economic opportunity.
KHOURI: Economic opportunity. This isn't a revolt all over the Arab world in which people just want to affirm their humanity. They want to use all their human attributes. They wanted to speak. They want to be able to debate, to read real news, to have discussions, to hold people accountable. They're not talking about tax policy or Israel or China or the U.S. They're not dealing with ideological or policy issues. They're dealing with basic fundamental human issues. They want to reaffirm their humanity because they feel they've been dehumanized by their own regimes, as well as by regional issues like Israeli colonization or American armies coming into the region. But it's mainly about domestic stuff.
PARKER: So are we seeing the end of monarchies? Is this the beginning of the end in 20 years where we see a totally different form of government throughout the Middle East?
KHOURI: I think we're beginning to see the end of monarchies as executive rulers. And what you're going to probably see I will predict in Bahrain and other places is monarchies that are reigning monarchs but stay out of the business of executive governance. So the prime minister probably in Bahrain will not be a member of the royal family down the road. And the government will not be appointed necessarily by the king but will reflect the majority in parliament. You'll have a more participatory and accountable system of executive governance. The king has a very important role to play and I predict that the monarchs in the Arab world will try to reposition themselves as the kind of guarantors of justice and basic human decency.
VELSHI: Let me ask you this. We're almost at the end of the show, but tell me this. Is Bahrain possibly a proxy battle between Saudi Arabia and Iran? It was historically a province of Iran and its neighbors connected by a causeway to Saudi Arabia.
KHOURI: Much of the Middle East is a proxy battle between the Saudi-American side and the Iranian-Syrian-Hezbollah-Hamas side, the Islamist Arab nationalists and the Iranians with them and the people on the other side. So most of these contests (ph), Somalia, Yemen, Lebanon, Palestine, Bahrain, Iraq, almost all they're all proxy battles and in most of them the United States has been losing. So I think people have to wake up and come to grips with this new reality. Democracy is going to be good for everybody. For the Arabs, for the Americans, for the Israelis, for the Iranians, everybody benefits from a Democratic Arab world.
PARKER: What effect if any do these protest movements have on the power of Al Qaeda?
KHOURI: They're a huge problem for Al Qaeda. Al Qaeda plays on grievances that are very widely expressed in the Arab world. As these grievances are sorted out, as people get more accountable or presented a democratic governance, less corruption, less abuse of power and less police brutality, as these problems are regressed, you have fewer grievances that Al Qaeda can play on. And I think this is a big blow for Al Qaeda. Very few people in the Arab world support Al Qaeda and that's why they're over in the caves of Afghanistan. They're not really in the Arab world.
PARKER: And less rational for radicalizing young people, right?
KHOURI: Well, the radicalization of young people has come from several sources, internal autocracy, police systems, prisons, et cetera, in the Arab world, micro-democracy, but also the Arab-Israeli conflict and its consequences and also the double standards of western powers. If you look at the Iran nuclear situation, if you look at the implementation of U.N. resolutions, they're done in very different ways. People are fed up with double standards so the radicalization comes from economic and social stress, political autocracy and international double standards. They're a big package of things to deal with, but one by one a democratic system in Arab countries can address these issues.
VELSHI: Rami Khouri, great to see you. Thanks very much for being with us.
KHOURI: Thanks for having me.
PARKER: Thanks so much.
VELSHI: Kathleen, thank you for having me here. It's been fun.
PARKER: Oh, it was lovely. Thank you for joining.
VELSHI: Can I come back tomorrow?
PARKER: Why don't you come back tomorrow?
VELSHI: I will do that then.
PARKER: All right.
VELSHI: All right. Good night from New York.
"PIERS MORGAN" starts right now.
