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Crime and Justice With Ashleigh Banfield
Suspect Captured; CNN Heroes
Aired April 20, 2017 - 20:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We are going to pursue justice in this case.
JEAN CASAREZ, GUEST HOST (voice-over): Breaking news tonight, an amazing recovery.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He needs to be held accountable for kidnapping this girl.
CASAREZ: A 50-year-old Tennessee high school teacher who allegedly kidnapped his 15-year-old student is under arrest.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We had half of our team surround the back of the cabin.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The area is a very remote, isolated area.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It appears that she`s healthy and she`s not injured, and this is amazing.
CASAREZ: The girl has been found safe in northern California more than 2,000 miles from home.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Our main concern is how is she emotionally.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We love you and we can`t wait to see you!
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We`re so excited.
CASAREZ: Live to where Tad Cummins and Elizabeth Thomas were discovered.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
CASAREZ: Good evening. I`m Jean Casarez, in tonight for Ashleigh Banfield. Thank you so much for joining us. This is PRIMETIME JUSTICE.
Tad Cummins, a high school teacher, is behind bars tonight over five weeks after he shocked a community and triggered a nationwide manhunt by
allegedly kidnapping his 15-year-old student, Elizabeth Thomas. Elizabeth vanished on March 13th with Cummins just a few weeks after a student
reported seeing Cummins kiss her in a classroom.
Earlier today, they were found in a remote cabin in Cecilville, California. The discovery reunites a family that was literally torn apart.
CNN correspondent Sara Sidner joins us tonight from northern California. She is on her way to Yreka, where Cummins is being held.
Sara, how were they found in northern California so close to the Oregon border? I understand you have spoken with the owner of the cabin where
they were found.
SARA SIDNER, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes, the owner tells us that, basically, he had a caretaker there. It`s off season. It`s a place where a lot of
people might come to enjoy themselves in the California wilderness. But it`s off season. He is away. He has a caretaker there and friend who
checks on the property, as well.
What happened is at some point, both these -- both this couple comes into the area and they see them driving around, and at one point, they needed a
place to stay. So the caretaker offered a cabin for them to stay, and that is exactly what they both did.
When the friend showed up, though, apparently, the friend noticed that things didn`t seem quite right, said that, you know, he noticed that there
was no license plate on the vehicle and that every time the gentleman got out of the car, the young lady that was sitting in the passenger side
wouldn`t leave the car, and he thought that was pretty odd.
He at the time did not know who was in the car. He wasn`t sure, but he thought they were acting a bit strange and it was a bit odd. And so he
went back to his place and started thinking about it and eventually decided that there was something wrong and started looking at what was going on in
the news, and then realized who he was looking at and was able to talk to the caretaker, who then ended up calling police.
Now, they had hatched a plan once that happened, and the plan was that they would go back to the cabin in the morning and that the caretaker would ask
for the two people in the cabin to come out and to help with building this rock wall. They were building a rock wall there as they try and refurbish
the property before tourist season comes. And the plan was to say, Well, please come out and do this, and that is sort of what happened.
They came out of the cabin, but instead of just the caretaker and friend being there, the sheriff`s department for Siskiyou County was there. And
they ended up taking the student into custody but -- you know, to give her a safe place so she could get back to her family, but also taking the
former teacher, as well, into custody.
A big shock for that community because it`s in a remote area. It`s difficult to even get any kind of cell service out of that area. And they
told me just now -- this is new information -- that they had been in the area for about a week but not staying at the cabin for a week, just staying
at the cabin that one night when the friend noticed something was wrong and then got in touch with authorities.
We also understand they were hanging out near a river for a little while, that they were at a commune for a day or so and that they stayed somewhere
else for another day, but all in that same very remote area.
And those are the details coming from the owner of that cabin where these two finally -- where police were able to finally get to the two people they
have been looking for for now a month and a week, Jean.
CASAREZ: Sara, this is amazing information that you have. And for everyone just joining us tonight, 15-year-old Elizabeth Thomas has been
found alive.
And joining us right now is Sheriff Jon Lopey. He is from the Siskiyou County sheriff`s office, joining us from Yreka, California.
[20:05:00]Sheriff, thank you very much. I know this has been an extremely important day, a busy day. How is Elizabeth doing tonight?
SHERIFF JON LOPEY, SISKIYOU COUNTY (via telephone): Well, she was doing well. She was in relatively good shape, considering her ordeal because she
had been out on the road since March 13th. You know, she was in pretty good shape considering all the circumstances.
CASAREZ: Physically, right. We did hear that emotionally that it`s been sort of a roller-coaster for her.
LOPEY: Yes, definitely. You know, her emotions ranged from stoic to, you know -- you know, being depressed. Sometimes she was crying, sometimes she
was laughing. It was definitely a range of emotions exhibited by the victim.
CASAREZ: Of course. And where is she tonight?
LOPEY: Well, after we took custody of Mr. Cummins -- of course, you know, we had contacted the Tennessee Bureau of Investigations and the Federal
Bureau of Investigation. Their office is back in Memphis. And we also contacted the FBI office in Redding (ph), which is about 90 miles south of
our county seat of Yreka.
And because there is a federal protection warrant and there are charges pending against Mr. Cummins both from the state of Tennessee and also
federally, we arranged through our Child Protective Services to transfer Elizabeth to the Federal Bureau of Investigation. So FBI agents from
Redding came up and just before noon today...
CASAREZ: Well, has she been to a hospital?
LOPEY: They were going to have her examined, medically examined. They were going to conduct a forensic interview. And also, you know, when crime
victims are, you know, in ordeals like this, there`s always, you know, concern about their emotional and psychological condition.
CASAREZ: Of course. It`s a very, very important time and very critical time.
HLN anchor Mike Galanos, you have been covering this story since it broke. This is your story. You join us now from Atlanta. We do understand that
the VIN number of the vehicle was of extreme importance and that is how they actually were able to find them.
MIKE GALANOS, HLN ANCHOR: Yes, and from what we gather, Jean, that the VIN number was covered -- and again, you get you back to some of the early
parts of the story, where Tad Cummins had researched this silver Nissan Rogue. Could it be tracked or not? But it comes down to something simple,
like a VIN number being covered up and a VIN number being verified that that is indeed the car from Tennessee.
I`m holding in my hand here -- this is the criminal complaint, Jean. This is the federal charges that the sheriff was talking about. The federal
charge is transporting a minor across state lines for criminal sexual activity. Minimum sentence there 10 years.
And in this criminal complaint, it gets you through the timeline, where this begins January 23rd, where a 12-year-old middle school student sees a
kiss so, quote, unquote, "freaked out" -- that was the reporting on this -- confronted Tad Cummins the next day. An investigation ensues, and both Tad
Cummins and Elizabeth deny a kiss. What ends up happening -- she`s removed from the class. They`re told not to have contact. They do have contact.
February 6th, he`s suspended. Then we know -- from the school as a teacher. Then we know March 13th, they vanish. They leave, last seen at a Shoney`s.
And Jean, from this, we get information of a note written from Tad Cummins to his wife, Jill. And he`s trying to send authorities in the other
direction, saying, I`m going to Virginia Beach to clear my head. But also, we find out he had two guns.
And also, we`re finding out -- and I say this and I give you these details from this criminal complaint because part of this is to prove sex with a
minor -- that he was -- when they stayed in Oklahoma City -- that was the last part they were seen, March 15th at a Walmart -- there was one bed at a
motel, that he had fulfilled (sic) a prescription for Cialis, bought sexual lubricants. So to prove sex with a minor, what a 50-year-old grown man may
have done with a 15-year-old.
CASAREZ: And Mike, you`re right. This is all in the federal complaint. This is information that is just breaking tonight because this federal
charge has been filed.
Let`s go back to Sara Sidner who is live in northern California. Sara, I understand you`ve got some information from the owner of the cabin you`ve
just received.
SIDNER: Yes, I just got more information from him. And he says that there was actually a conversation had between Tad Cummins and his friend who was
on the property. He basically -- Tad basically told the friend about the person he was with, which turned out, of course, to be Elizabeth Thomas,
saying that -- that Tad said he was 44 and that she was 22 and that that was his wife.
And so he was giving this false information, also of course, not giving his name and not letting anyone know exactly who he was, trying to stay
incognito. He also knew that there was no cell service out there and no Internet out there. So hard to communicate, for example, with authorities.
If you wanted to do that quickly, you couldn`t out there in the area.
[20:10:08]We also have just learned that he left the commune because the people there thought he was a bit sketchy and were concerned about him.
And I do want to make this point. If it had not been for the friend of the owner of the cabin and the caretaker there, the police may not have found
them as soon as they did. Because these two gentlemen decided that it was really important, that something was wrong and they checked on that and
then came up with a plan to keep Cummins and Thomas there -- had they not done that, these two may have gone on to somewhere else and we may still be
searching for them.
And so I did want to make that point, that it`s really important that citizens get involved and try to figure out when something like this
happens to come forward. And that is exactly what happened in this case. And they cooperated with authorities, but they first alerted authorities.
There were two different phone calls made. And really important to make that point, but again, Tad Cummins was giving false information, saying
that he was married to this -- now everyone knows to Elizabeth Thomas, who is just 15 years old. That`s the story that he was telling the caretaker
and the friend, who eventually...
CASAREZ: And that will be...
SIDNER: ... called authorities and...
CASAREZ: And Sara, that`ll be extremely important information when they get to court also to show his state of mind.
I want to go right back to the sheriff of Siskiyou County, Sheriff Jon Lopey, who is with us. You know, Sheriff, we were just looking at pictures
of the cabin that Sara has received information that they were in for a week to a week-and-a-half. So a number of days they were in this cabin.
What was inside this cabin when authorities finally got in it today?
LOPEY: Well, the cabin wasn`t really furnished except for it had, like, a sleeping pad, and you know, personal clothing, bedding and personal
property of both the 15-year-old victim and Mr. Cummins. It was pretty sparsely, you know, furnished.
CASAREZ: Now, it was believed that this man had weapons on him. Were you able to find those weapons in that cabin?
LOPEY: Yes, we recovered two loaded handguns in the cabin. One was an H&K 9-millimeter semiautomatic pistol, and the other one was a small compact
Ruger .380 caliber semiautomatic pistol.
CASAREZ: Now, this is the crime scene. This is your primary crime scene at this point. Have you started processing the scene? And who is doing
that processing?
LOPEY: Well, there is -- there`s several things going on right now. First of all, we took, you know, clothing and bedding and personal articles out
of the cabin, placed them in the vehicle, and the vehicle has been towed and secured for forensic processing. We also found other evidentiary items
in the vehicle, some of which indicated where they had been during their trip and...
CASAREZ: Did you find maps?
LOPEY: Yes, we did, found maps and some other articles. So -- and to get back to your question, we have secured the cabin, and the FBI has an
evidence response team and they are going to process the cabin just to make sure that there isn`t, you know, trace evidence that may be helpful, you
know, in the prosecution of the case. So we have a crime scene there at the -- you know, at the cabin, and they will also eventually, you know,
process the vehicle and analyze the clothing. We also took, you know, Mr. Cummins`s clothing and shoes...
CASAREZ: Extremely important time...
LOPEY: So all those will be available for...
CASAREZ: ... for the investigation.
LOPEY: ... processing.
CASAREZ: No question. You are building the case now for prosecution.
Mike Galanos, you have been on this story from the beginning. You are the expert on this case. What questions do you have for the sheriff?
GALANOS: Sheriff, again, great work. I think for myself and our viewers, can you further clarify the timeline of how long they were in Siskiyou
County? How much time spent where Tad Cummins is potentially trying to find refuge at the commune versus getting rebuff there and where does he go
from there? Where do they move from there? Can you further clarify?
LOPEY: Right. They were here probably less than a week. And they were previously -- the last place that we know that they visited, according to
his spontaneous statements -- and I`m talking about Mr. Cummins -- was in Berkeley, California, and went down and spent a little time in Berkeley.
And then they traveled to the Black Bear ranch, which is the commune that was referred to earlier. And they stayed a short time there. Evidently,
the chemistry didn`t work and they left the Black Bear ranch.
[20:15:14]And then they through happenchance evidently ran into this caretaker in Cecilville and were allowed to stay in the cabin. And they --
this is a very remote area. I think I mentioned that it`s about 68 miles southwest of our county seat in Yreka. So they are low on gas, so they
were doing work for food and fuel for their vehicle.
GALANOS: And how long in the cabin, Sheriff?
LOPEY: We believe they were there for two or three days.
GALANOS: Two or three days.
LOPEY: Yes.
GALANOS: Again, great work. And Jean, as I throw it back to you, interesting to note what happened in Berkeley, California. You know, that
is new information to get the definitive (ph). They were in North Berkeley, California. What happened there? Who did they run into there?
Just more questions at this point.
CASAREZ: That`s right, more questions. And Mike, we are going to take a short break now. But everybody, we have got so much more with the sheriff
and all the other players to give us more information on this breaking news, Elizabeth Thomas alive and safe after 38 days on the run with her
teacher.
We`ll be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
[20:20:40]JONATHAN WHATLEY, THOMAS FAMILY ATTORNEY: We`re extremely pleased to follow up on the news that everyone has heard today, which is
that Elizabeth Thomas has been found. She is safe. And Tad Cummins is in jail. Now, we are beyond elated. In fact, words really can`t express the
feelings that we have. The family is here. I know most of you know that. They are right now anxiously awaiting a phone call from the TBI that will
put them in touch with Elizabeth.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CASAREZ: I`m Jean Casarez, in for Ashleigh Banfield. Thank you so much for joining us.
Again, the news is the 15-year-old student Elizabeth Thomas, somewhere in this country for 38 days with her teacher, has been found alive. Tad
Cummins, the teacher, is in federal custody tonight.
CNN correspondent Sara Sidner joins us again from northern California. Sara, I understand you have more new information?
SIDNER: Yes, just hearing again from the owner of that cabin who has spoken to his friend who met Tad Cummins. He said there were a couple
other things that happened that were alarming. One is that not only did he say that the two of them had just been married -- and he kind of questioned
that because of the way Elizabeth Thomas was acting.
She said -- he said that when he tried to address her that she would whisper into Tad Cummins`s ear, and then he would relay the information to
the friend who had met them, and he thought that was quite strange, also that the two of them ended up talking about their experience at the
commune. They were only there a day or two, maybe three, and they were -- Cummins was complaining about the fact that he thought that the people
there were strange because they didn`t -- all of them didn`t adhere to religion. And so he was being quite judgmental about the people that had
taken him in on the commune, him and Thomas.
And so you had sort of a rift there, and I think the people in the commune said, OK, well, he`s acting very strangely and they would like him to
leave. I think the word that was used was "creepy." So that`s a little bit more detail from those who came in contact with Tad Cummins and
Elizabeth Thomas during all of this.
But to say that they weren`t worried is an understatement because after a while, he was hanging around about a week, they said, in the area. And
it`s a very, very tight-knit community that always comes together and tries to help each other out. And so there was concern about the two of them.
They just were offputting to a lot of people. They couldn`t understand what the real relationship was there. And the friend became worried enough
to try to get authorities involved, and that`s just what happened -- Jean.
CASAREZ: And it was a strange vehicle and strange people in that small community, and because it was such a small, tight-knit community, they
immediately stood out. And so maybe going to that remote area, Sara -- maybe that did them detriment because, in the end, that`s really how
suddenly they came to light there was just something wrong with these two strange people to this community.
Joining us right now again is the sheriff, Jon Lopey. He is from Siskiyou County, and he joins us. You know, Sheriff, I want to talk to you about
the takedown because it was in the very early mornings (ph) of this morning that it happened. That VIN number is what law enforcement was able to get,
but the VIN number can be very difficult to find on a vehicle. It can be inside the door. It can be, I guess, inside the dashboard area. Where did
they find the VIN number? Was that easy to see?
LOPEY: Well, he had it covered up with a piece of paper. But a deputy initially responded and was able to read a portion of the VIN and the
Vehicle Identification Number that the portion that he read was matched to the Vehicle Identification Number on the previous "be on the lookout"
distributed by Tennessee authorities. And we confirm, Oh, yes, this is the vehicle.
It didn`t -- it had -- it didn`t have the plate, the original Tennessee plates. And we also found other plates in the vehicle. So evidently, as
they traveled across the country, they had an Alabama plate. And they had Colorado plates that they had had in the vehicle, as well. So they
evidently were concealing, you know, the vehicle...
[20:25:18]CASAREZ: Concealing the identity of who they were and the vehicle they were in. So authorities did not want to create a hostage
situation. Once you had established the VIN number is that is of the vehicle that you knew that the teacher was driving...
LOPEY: Right. What...
CASAREZ: You didn`t want to create a hostage situation so what did you do then?
LOPEY: When we established the, you know, the fact that, OK, this is the vehicle, and we had information that they may be in that cabin, so because
the original broadcast indicated this individual was armed with firearms, it was a high-risk situation for law enforcement.
So we mobilized eight members of our special response team. They got into position somewhere around 2:00 in the morning. Now, we had -- they had two
choices. Do we try to breach the door and take this individual into custody and potentially jeopardize the 15-year-old victim and also
jeopardize the safety of the operators on the scene, or do we just form a perimeter around the cabin, you know, in concealed positions and wait for
them to come out of the cabin?
And that`s what they decided to do. It was very cold, austere conditions, but ultimately, what the SWAT team commander decided to do -- and we had a
lieutenant and a sergeant on scene, Lieutenant Bear Tharsdeen (ph) and Detective Sergeant Mike Gilley (ph). They decided to do just that, to use
discretion, to use patience, form a perimeter and hope that, you know, he came out of the cabin eventually.
Now, what happened is we did commandeer a volunteer. The caretaker helped entice the individual out of the cabin. Fortunately, Mr. Cummins walked
out of the cabin, and he was taken into custody without incident. He didn`t resist. And also, the 15-year-old victim also walked out behind him
about the same time, and we were able to neutralize them and resolve the situation safely and without anybody getting hurt. So that was a good
operation from a law enforcement perspective...
CASAREZ: Great. Great operation. Great work, Sheriff, because you knew that this man was armed. You believed that there were two guns, as there
were inside that cabin. So that was just exceptional.
Mike Duffy is an anchor and reporter for CNN affiliate KDRV, and joins us tonight from Yreka, California. Mike, what is it like there?
MIKE DUFFY, KDRV (via telephone): Well, what I would really wanted to point out is that this is a community where people keep to themselves.
They were absolutely stunned to hear that something like this could happen in their own back yard. Now, it`s a county of about 45,000 people. It`s
only about 6,500 acres, which is actually the fifth largest county in all of California.
And what it means is that people can go unseen here pretty easily. It`s also an area that happens to be the crossroads for a bunch of different
national forests, plus the Pacific Crest trail is here. So you get a lot of transient-type people in this area. It`s easy to see how they would go
unnoticed.
CASAREZ: But not these two. HLN anchor Mike Galanos has been on this story from the beginning. Mike, we do have a federal charge tonight. It
has to do with transporting a minor across the lines for the purposes of sex. There is descriptive language and things that were collected, they
found that this teacher, Ted Cummins got in actually a Walmart in Oklahoma?
GALANOS: Yes, because you look at -- you know, we go back to that timeline, Jean, March 13th. They go missing March 15th. And we know that
there`s video of them at a Walmart, but they spend the night at a hotel or motel in Oklahoma City, or in that area.
A few things authorities are going to look at, as we see some footage there -- this is, I believe, beforehand -- was what was the conditions of the
motel. We`re finding out one bed. Again, you`re trying to prove sex with a minor. We`ve mentioned, as well, that Tad Cummins filled a prescription
for Cialis before they left. And also while in Oklahoma, some sexual lubricants were purchased, as well. We say that because that very well,
Jean, could be evidence in this case.
CASAREZ: That`s right, Mike. You know, I mean, this is not easy to talk about...
GALANOS: No, it`s not.
CASAREZ: ... these things listed in this complaint, the Cialis, the KY jelly that was found. But this is potential evidence that they will use to
prove their case right there.
And joining us right now, defense attorney Kisha Hebbon and former prosecutor David Bruno. Kisha, in the federal complaint that is filed
against this man, these -- Cialis, KY jelly -- why is it so important?
KISHA HEBBON, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: It is extremely important because for the prosecutor to get a conviction on these chargers, the prosecutor would have
to prove that they actually had sex. Why would a 50-year-old male get Cialis if he is living in a rented room with one bedroom with a female and
then the KY jelly and and, you know, you only use Cialis for sexual reasons. So -- and I`m pretty sure once she gets the therapy that she
needs, she`ll be the key witness for the prosecution and she will be able to say this is what happened.
CASAREZ: You`re right. We have a living victim and a living witness.
DAVID BRUNO, FORMER PROSECUTOR: Yes, sure. The police have a lot of work to do right now. And they found them, and now they`re gonna be debriefing her
to get her version as to where they have been. And there is a great trail that they have to follow. Because as they get documents and receipts and
things like that, they`re gonna develop additional crime scenes. Like you said, there is a primary crime scene now, but there are many secondary
crime scenes to rule out their travels.
CASAREZ: Let`s talk about a secondary crime scene to the sheriff. I want to ask you about the car. Because there were a number of items you found in
the car. You found maps.
JON LOPEY, SISKIYOU COUNTY SHERIFF`S OFFICE: Yes.
CASAREZ: Was it a map of the United States? A map of -- was it marked with a marker at all? Could you see the route that you believed he wanted to go?
Did he want to go to northern California?
LOPEY: Well, the map, it does seem to, you know, more or less outline their route of travel and there are other items in the vehicle also that seem to
indicate what states and areas they visited and.
CASAREZ: As in rocks. Isn`t it true that there were rocks that were labeled in the car?
LOPEY: Yes, there were rocks that were labeled in the vehicle.
CASAREZ: Labeled with what?
LOPEY: Evidently, they were -- the victim evidently, she was collecting rocks along the route and they were.
CASAREZ: She was collecting rocks. This little 15-year-old girl collecting rocks. It makes perfect sense. Sheriff, I want to ask you once more,
Elizabeth is going to have to be questioned. She is the eyewitness. She is the victim. Has she started to tell her story to authorities yet? Are they
waiting to allow her to calm down at this point?
LOPEY: Well, I can tell you that first of all, we did not conduct an interview at the scene. We want to wait for the investigators. I also want
to add that investigators for the FBI and the Tennessee Bureau of Investigations are in route here and they will arrive in Siskiyou County
tonight. And the -- I mentioned the FBI agents in Redding, California responded, met us, and we transitioned, you know, the victim to the FBI.
And the FBI, their intention was not only to care for her welfare and to get her professional assistance and support, but obviously they are going
to -- I have to agree with both commentators. They will conduct a forensic interview. They will try to get as much information as possible. It is very
important to separate her from the suspect to get this information.
I`m sure in the ensuing days, you know, they will obtain more information, you know, about what happened and what possible criminal liability he has
and what improprieties were committed by Mr. Cummins and what kind of victimization that she was subjected to.
CASAREZ: Has she spoken with her family, sheriff?
LOPEY: I`m sure that she has by now. I know that I talked to the TBI officials in Tennessee a few hours ago and I said the father, her father
was very anxious to talk to her. When the FBI transported her away from the point where we met the FBI, they were going to do that, but it was going to
take place at a later time.
And I did talk to one of the FBI agents from Redding and they said that they would definitely facilitate communications but they wanted to conduct
the forensic interview first and make sure that she was doing well and she gets support.
CASAREZ: Very important. All right. We will be right back after this short break.
[20:35:00] (COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(START VIDEO CLIP)
MARK GWYN, TENNESSEE BUREAU OF INVESTIGATION: Tad is in custody of law enforcement facing a set of charges that could keep him from behind bars
for many years.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CASAREZ: CNN correspondent Dianne Gallagher joins us now from Colombia, Tennessee. Dianne, you were there. Jill Cummins who is the wife of Tad
Cummins is in that area. Any word from her tonight?
DIANNE GALLAGHER, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Not directly. But I did speak with her attorney. He said that Jill received word before he even did from officials
that they had found her husband, who is now estranged. She`s filed for divorce, and Elizabeth Thomas now, he did say that Jill said that she
didn`t know why they would go to northern California, Jean.
[20:40:00] To her knowledge, he never even been there before and wasn`t sure why they were going in that direction. You know, she has spoken out
quite a bit during this ordeal and she`s basically said she was just doing that to find them, that at this point, she`s probably not going to speak a
whole lot anymore because she has her own healing to do right now.
CASAREZ: Right. And she`s in the middle of a divorce which she has filed. Mike Galanos, HLN anchor, we haven`t heard too much from Jill Cummins. One
thing she did say was that her husband had a blood pressure medication that might have to be refilled. Did she say anything about Cialis?
MIKE GALANOS, HLN ANCHOR: No. To that point, pharmacies, we believe, around the country were looking for that. You know, when you mention Jill Cummins,
your heart breaks for her, that she`s been so emotional. I went to their neighborhood. It is just a slice of Americana, Jean. There is a swing in
the front yard for Tad Cummins` grandchildren. You have that. And on that point of innocence, I want to go back to the sheriff. Sheriff, are you
still with us? Sheriff?
LOPEY: Yes. Oh, I`m here. Can you hear me?
GALANOS: Yeah, I can. Can you enlighten us any more about, you know, you mentioned just that -- it`s almost a heartbreaking detail, a 15-year-old
girl collecting rocks on this cross country trip with a 50-year-old man. Do you know anything more about the interaction especially as Tad Cummins was
arrested and Elizabeth was taken into custody? Was there any interaction between the two as that went down?
LOPEY: There was some interaction. They appear to be emotionally close to each other and there was a range of emotions exhibited, you know, during
the contact, but they appear to have a very friendly and close relationship.
GALANOS: And, Jean, that gets you back to that potential grooming. What had he said and done over these last couple of months to have Elizabeth
basically wrapped around his finger. It`s sad and sick to say, but that`s what we are dealing with. We know from social media communications that he
basically, you know, was that affirming voice for her that, you know, some of her communications were that she wasn`t pretty enough and he would be
don`t let anybody tell you you`re not pretty.
He told that to another student, Destiny Parrish, years ago and she shudders to think as some of that same communication was coming her way as
we are trying to piece together all that went into this, a 50-year-old man abducting this 15-year-old girl.
CASAREZ: You know, Mike, this reminds me so much of the Elizabeth Smart case. I mean, there are differences of course, but when you think about the
brainwashing, the way that an older man -- because he called Elizabeth Smart his wife also, that`s what he purported her to be as they went around
the Salt Lake City community.
CNN correspondent Sara Sidner joins us again from northern California. You`re right there. You`ve spoken with the owner of the cabin. What did he
say -- and also the caretaker, that the relationship seemed to be between the two of them?
SARA SIDNER, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yeah, so he wasn`t there, but his friend was helping take care of the place as well as a caretaker who was there all
the time. They said both of them ended up meeting both Cummins and Thomas. And they said that there was a strange relationship they noticed. They
noticed that the car, the vehicle didn`t have any tag, license plate tag on that and that was a little scary.
But they also said that they noticed that if they ever addressed Thomas that she would then whisper in the ear of Cummins and he would then speak
for her, and they though that was odd. They also said that she wouldn`t get out of the car when he did. She would stay inside of the car and that kind
of alerted them. I do want to mention one more thing. The cabins weren`t ready to move in. This was a time again, off season.
They were trying to renovate and do some different things. Had it not been for the friend who decided that were something wrong and then went and
researched and figured out, that he thought that this might be the two people that authorities and their families have been looking for a month
and a week, they may have moved on.
They had been in the area for about a week. They had been sort of pushed out of the commune, that they thought the people in there didn`t match
their believes and there was some trouble. But, yeah, had it not been for this friend and for the caretaker, police may not have found out about this
as soon as they did. Jean?
CASAREZ: And it is amazing. And it is cold up there. We understand there is even some snow on the ground. So, we will be right back.
[20:45:00] (COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(START VIDEO CLIP)
KAT THOMAS, ELIZABETH THOMAS` SISTER: We`re happy. We`re beyond ecstatic that she`s finally home. It`s amazing. She`ll be home later this afternoon.
TBI is bringing her home. But, it`s amazing. And they said it appears that she`s healthy and she`s not injured and this is amazing.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CASAREZ: And that is Kat Thomas. She is the sister of Elizabeth, minutes after she found out her sister, her 15-year-old sister, had been found in
northern California alive. Welcome back. Bobby Chacon is a retired FBI agent. He joins us now from Los Angeles. You know, I`m looking at the sate
of mind of Tad Cummins, this now federal defendant in this case. There were maps in the car.
It was obvious there was a route. There was an intent to go, authorities believe, to this very remote area in northern California. Various different
license plates in the car, no plates on the car at the time that he was apprehended this morning. What does this tell you about the mind of Tad
Cummins?
BOBBY CHACON, RETIRED FBI AGENT: Well, it tells me he was conscious obviously that he was committing a crime.
[20:50:00] He was consciously trying to avoid capture, right? So he didn`t see this even though in his warped mind, he may be at times thinking this
is a normal relationship, but he clearly knew that he was on the run. He clearly knew he was breaking the law. He clearly knew this woman -- this
young girl was a victim even though in part of his sickness he might not see it that way.
CASAREZ: And obviously when it comes to kidnapping charges and all of the federal charges and the state charges that could be coming, every bit of
detail, all these potential evidentiary facts can be critical in a prosecution. Chandler Anderson, you are joining us tonight. You worked with
Tad Cummins. You are the only one that knew him. You join us from Colombia, Tennessee. What is this teacher all about? Who is the person you knew?
CHANDLER ANDERSON, WORKED WITH TAD CUMMINS: This is a guy that`s an egotistical guy, that even in 1998 when I first worked with him in the
emergency department, this is a guy who always had to be right. This is a guy that argued with some emergency room physicians about the care of
patients. So the idea that Tad Cummins did something this terrible just reveals what a narcissist this fellow is.
CASAREZ: Do we still have Sheriff Jon Lopey with us? All right. We do not. Mike Galanos, we do understand that the plan is for Elizabeth to fly back
with Tennessee Bureau of Investigation authorities on their plane tomorrow to reunite with her family.
GALANOS: Jean, it`s got to be such a delicate situation. It has been really enlightening to this hour to hear some of the details. You know, you see
the sweetness in face of Elizabeth right there, 15 years old, collecting rocks on the journey, and how she communicate with Tad Cummins, not even
directly responding to someone`s questions but whispering. It seems to me, Jean, correct me if I`m wrong, just that almost stereotypical kidnapper and
kidnapping victim relationship. She won`t make a move without him.
CASAREZ: Mike, think about this. Teacher-student relationship.
GALANOS: That as well.
CASAREZ: There you are in school. The teacher has you collect rocks and you write exactly what the rock is or where the rock comes from.
GALANOS: Exactly that. Is Chandler still with us? Chandler, you were one of the first ones, if he`s still with us, to red flag Tad Cummins as wanting
to be an authority figure and being a teacher fits the bill.
ANDERSON: Yeah, I mean, he went from making probably $50,000 a year as a respiratory therapist and cutting his salary to probably half so that he
can be egomaniac and have a captive audience of 30 children at a time. So this is not surprising. I mean, he gave up half of his salary to go be a
teacher. That`s a huge red flag.
CASAREZ: Mike Galanos, I want to give you closing thoughts.
GALANOS: Closing thoughts. Having covered so many stories, I am happy and I sat with the family and I saw their tears and their emotions as they waited
and hoped and prayed for Elizabeth to return. She will return physically well and we can all only pray that she is made well and made whole
completely at some point because we do not know all that she went through, Jean.
CASAREZ: All right. HLN achor Mike Galanos and all of our guests, thank you so much. We are on the hunt for CNN heroes, but we cannot do it without
you. We need you to find us help them to nominate people doing extraordinary work to change the world. Meet some of the nominators that
made their personal hero a CNN hero.
(START VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I met my hero when we were volunteering.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: He`s making a big difference.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: There you go.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: For kids in our area.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: She is my second mom, my mentor.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I felt like it was very important for people to know about (inaudible).
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I feel honored that I was able to honor her in such a significant way.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I was so proud of myself because I was like, oh my goodness, for everything that she`s done for me, I did something for her,
you know.
(LAUGHTER)
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CASAREZ: And if you know someone who would be a great CNN hero, go to cnnheroes.com and nominate them. We will be right back.
[20:55:00] (COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(START VIDEO CLIP)
LOPEY: The two obviously have a relationship. And like I said, her response to us and to law enforcement kind of escalated up and down during the
duration of our contact.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CASAREZ: So authorities are telling us tonight Elizabeth most likely will be talking to her family. She in northern California now, found today
unharmed physically, alive, after 30 days on the road with her teacher from Tennessee to California. As authorities say, they are measuring everything
we do based on Elizabeth. Her needs, her wants, her well being.
A team of experts, forensic experts, are with Elizabeth now. They will be talking with her, hearing her story, questioning her. This is a victim. A
victim that survived 38 days. Thank you so much for joining us. I`m Jean Casarez. We will see you back here Monday night 8:00 for "Primetime
Justice." "Forensic Files" is up next. Good night.
[21:00:00]
END
