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Crime and Justice With Ashleigh Banfield
O.J. Simpson Granted Parole, Will Walk Free
Aired July 20, 2017 - 20:30 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
O.J. SIMPSON: I`ve done my time. I`m not a guy who lived a criminal life.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I don`t feel that he`s a threat to anyone out there.
O.J. SIMPSON: I have no weapon. You know, I`m a pretty straight shooter.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (INAUDIBLE) (EXPLETIVE DELETED)
ARNELLE SIMPSON, O.J.`S DAUGHTER: We recognize that he is not the perfect man.
O.J. SIMPSON: I haven`t made any excuses in nine years here.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: He is remorseful.
O.J. SIMPSON: I am sorry.
They turned over to me property that I`m in jail for, for trying to retrieve. You know? I basically have spent a conflict-free life.
NICOLE BROWN SIMPSON, VICTIM: O.J. Simpson. I think you know his record.
911 OPERATOR: Is he threatening you?
N. SIMPSON: He`s going (EXPLETIVE DELETED) nuts!
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He`s still alive, but he`s got a gun to his head.
O.J. SIMPSON: I`ve always been a guy that pretty much got along with everybody.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: In 2001, Simpson was cleared of charges in an alleged case of Florida (ph) road rage.
O.J. SIMPSON: I just want my property.
I wish this would have never happen.
It wasn`t worth it.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: My vote is to grant your parole.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Grant parole.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Grant parole.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Grant parole.
O.J. SIMPSON: Thank you!
(END VIDEOTAPE)
ASHLEIGH BANFIELD, HOST: Good evening, everyone. I`m Ashleigh Banfield. And I am in Carson City, Nevada, tonight. This is a special edition of
PRIMETIME JUSTICE.
O.J. Simpson has been granted parole after nearly nine years in prison. And no matter where you turned today, every major television network, every
major Web site and your social media feeds were focused on the video uplink between the parole board headquarters behind me and the Lovelock
Correctional Facility. That is where the prison exists where Orenthal James Simpson, inmate number 1027820 has spent the better time of nine
years serving time on robbery and kidnapping charges stemming from an incident at the Palace Station Hotel and Casino in 2007.
And today, for the second time since his incarceration at Lovelock, O.J. sat down in front of the Nevada parole board. He appeared to have lost a
significant amount of weight, reportedly between 50 and 70 pounds.
And when he started talking, O.J.`s charisma wasn`t hard to miss. He talked about his accomplishments behind bars, being discipline-free, his
position as softball commissioner at Lovelock, his faith and how he counseled other inmates about staying out of trouble.
While O.J. did express remorse for the Vegas crime, he deflected responsibility for it, claiming he was misled by his associates who turned
on him in court. But the now 70-year-old inmate made it clear he feels like he has done his time.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
O.J. SIMPSON: I`ve done my time. You know, I`ve done it as well and as respectfully as I think anybody can. I think if you talk to the wardens
there, they`ll tell you. I`ve been -- I gave them my word. I believe in the jury system. I`ve honored their verdict. I have not complained for
nine years.
All I`ve done is try to be helpful and encourage the guys around there, Hey, man, do your time, fight in court and don`t do anything that`s going
to extend your time. And that`s the life I`ve tried to live because I want to get back to my kids and my family.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BANFIELD: After about an hour and 20 minutes of this hearing, in which where O.J.`s daughter, Arnelle, and one of victims of the robbery itself,
Bruce Fromong -- both of them testified for O.J. The parole board then went behind closed doors to deliberate, and in the end, took them just 30
minutes to make their decision.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: My vote is to grant your parole effective when eligible.
O.J. SIMPSON: Thank you.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: And I concur with Commissioner Corda and grant parole. And in addition, our decision, although difficult, is fair and
just.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I concur with Commissioner Corda and agree to grant parole.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: So based on all of that, Mr. Simpson, I do vote to grant parole when eligible. And that will conclude this hearing.
O.J. SIMPSON: Thank you!
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BANFIELD: And that was that. Joining me tonight, two of O.J. Simpson`s co-defendants in that robbery case, Walter Alexander and Michael McClinton.
Mr. McClinton is the author of "The Truth About the O.J. Simpson Robbery."
[20:05:00]Also, Yale Galanter, Simpson`s attorney during the robbery trial, will be with us. Gloria Allred, Nicole Brown`s family attorney during
O.J.`s criminal trial, CNN and HLN legal analyst Joey Jackson is here with me in Carson City, and Tom Riccio. He orchestrated O.J.`s the Las Vegas
sting, and this is his very first primetime interview since O.J. heard the news today that he was granted parole just five hours ago.
Tom, thank you so much for being with me. I want to begin with you, if I can. Your first reaction to hearing the news that O.J.`s getting out, and
also your thoughts about his attitude during the hearing.
THOMAS RICCIO, ORCHESTRATED O.J.`S VEGAS STING: I wasn`t surprised. It seems like he meet the criteria for the crime he was convicted for, and he
behaved himself when he was in there. And didn`t surprise me at all. He`s -- The juice is loose, and that that was their decision.
BANFIELD: Did you think he was contrite? Did you think at least was humbled? Did you think he at least was a changed man, given what you saw
in that hearing room?
RICCIO: Listen, I think -- I think a lot of what he -- the way he was is the way he is. And most of the time, he`s -- he`s a -- he`s not a guy that
runs around cutting people`s heads off every day. He`s a charming guy a lot of the times, and that`s what I saw for the part that I saw him, you
know, in the hearing. Again, it didn`t surprise me the way he was, and the decision, as well.
BANFIELD: O.J. Simpson is widely reported and even it`s been documented that he has a heck of a temper. And in fact, you were one of people who
was able to document his temper in real time when you were rolling audiotape on the actual robbery as it was happening.
And I want to play that moment where his temper reared the head in that room as the guns came out and he demanded his stuff back. I want our
audience to listen to the way he said it, the way he addressed everyone in that room. And I`m going to ask you about the possibility that he might
get violent again or reoffend. Let`s have a listen.
(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)
O.J. SIMPSON: Don`t let nobody out of this room! (EXPLETIVE DELETED) get over there. (EXPLETIVE DELETED). Walk your -- over there. (EXPLETIVE
DELETED)
(CROSSTALK)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I`m cool. (EXPLETIVE DELETED).
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (EXPLETIVE DELETED) (INAUDIBLE) (EXPLETIVE DELETED)
(END AUDIO CLIP)
BANFIELD: So that is somebody who, if that had played during that hearing, those commissioners would have been, you know, questioning his temper and
his recidivism and the possibility he may get violent again if somebody crosses him. Do you think it`s possible that can happen?
RICCIO: You know, I must have been asked 100 times am I afraid O.J. is going to come at me after when he gets released. I never had that feeling
when I was -- and again, I wasn`t close friends with him, but I met him five times, maybe. And it never felt like he might go off.
He went off that day, and I think he even -- that was part of plan to go off like that. What wasn`t part of the plan was bringing goons with guns,
and that`s why he went to prison. He did want to yell at these guys. They stole his stuff. And you know, that was part of his whole -- the whole act
of getting his stuff back.
And like I said, if he didn`t bring the guys with guns, he wouldn`t be in - - he wouldn`t be -- no one would be here right now. He wouldn`t be in prison.
BANFIELD: And also, Tom, if you hadn`t set up the deal with two memorabilia dealers and a potential buyer, who ultimately, you were telling
O.J. he could come in at that moment and find his stuff there. You`re sort of the linchpin. Some people, including O.J. today and a couple of others,
Bruce Fromong, as well, have railed on you. You`ve been called a rat.
But by those who want O.J. to be in prison for life, you`re being called their hero. After today, do you have a better sense of who you are at
least in American zeitgeist?
RICCIO: Got to love Bruce Fromong calling me a rat. Literally seconds after the incident, he`s screaming for the police to come. And I`m, like,
Hey, I got O.J.`s number. We can talk this out. (INAUDIBLE) by O.J. Simpson! (INAUDIBLE) and then today in the hearing, Oh, I obtained all
that stuff legally, maybe just a few things.
You know, it`s funny. There was about 50 items there that O.J. really wanted back. Now, there was about 600 on the list. And it`s ironic that
they say I didn`t tell O.J. I actually did get the opportunity to tell O.J.`s friend before they came that all the stuff on the list was not
there, and they decided to still come.
[20:10:10]But again, the stuff was stolen. Most of that stuff was stolen. He had it. He knew it was stolen. And you can put the blame on me. It
doesn`t matter at this point. But you know, Bruce Fromong is a liar. And he`s -- you know, if anybody`s a rat, he`s a rat, too.
BANFIELD: Let me jump in there for a minute because there`s been a lot made about O.J. making excuses, and I want to play for a moment right now,
if I can, a part of his testimony today where the betting man would have said, O.J., own your crime. Don`t make excuses for it. Don`t explain it
away. Own it, apologize for it and move on. But instead, this is what the commissioners heard. Have a look.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
O.J. SIMPSON: I want to point out -- you mention all those gun charges. Bruce and Alfred (ph), they made it clear during the trial that I had no
weapon. They didn`t feel threatened by me, and from what you said, and that I didn`t threaten them. It was the other two security guys that did
that. And I`m not -- I haven`t made any excuses in the nine years that I`ve been here. And I`m not making an excuse now. They were there because
of me, you know. But in no way, shape or form did I wish them any harm.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BANFIELD: Joey Jackson, a little bit of both in that 31 seconds. Those guys the ones who actually had the guns, not me. We didn`t push our way
into the room. We used a key. Hey, I get it. They were there because of me. Enough contrition?
JOEY JACKSON, HLN/CNN LEGAL ANALYST: This was a wow! So make no mistake about it, O.J. being paroled not because of what he said but in spite of
what he said. And you know, I give the parole board a lot of credit, Ashleigh, because they exercised good faith and they really did it by the
numbers.
I think on the one hand, they said, Nine years is enough, and as a result of that, we`ll give him -- you know what? We`ll let him go. Second thing,
the risk factors. He could have scored a 21. he was only a 2, and I think that they looked and they said, You know what? It`s pretty scientific, the
way we do things, right, risk factors based upon your disciplinary history, based upon, you know, is there any drug or alcohol issues, based upon your
age, et cetera. There`s 11 of them.
And then finally, what do you think about Arnelle, his daughter`s testimony?
BANFIELD: Star of the show.
JACKSON: Wow! And she said what I think, Ashleigh, Mr. Simpson should have said. He made a mistake. Right? He made a mistake. My dad made a
very poor choice. It really -- you know, it had so much to do with our family, but this is not who he is. Could he have said that?
And then, of course, what about Mr. Fromong? And usually at these hearings, you have victims who are very energized and compelled to say,
Keep him in! Leave him there! But instead, Mr. Fromong said, and kept looking back and made him human and said, You know what. He`s my friend.
He`s my friend, and he deserves a second chance. I don`t think that really in terms of the parole board fell on deaf ears, and they said, It`s time.
And you can go home.
BANFIELD: And I`m going to talk about that in a minute, but if contrition were a big point factor in this hearing...
JACKSON: Oh!
BANFIELD: ... he would not have had a high score because...
JACKSON: Agreed.
BANFIELD: ... most of those hour and 15 minutes were spent...
JACKSON: Justifying.
BANFIELD: ... relitigating...
JACKSON: Oh! Yes, it was -- it was not something he should have done. And we said -- last point, Ashleigh. Listen, what we do with clients is we
prepare them. And we say keep it simple, stupid. Don`t be stupid, OK? If the question is, What were you thinking, the answer is?
BANFIELD: I wasn`t!
JACKSON: Exactly. Thank you. I wasn`t. That`s why we`re here. I`m so sorry. End it. Don`t ramble on and on about what you mention, I had the
key and it was really -- and listen to these reporters saying we broke in. We didn`t do it. It was wrong move. Wrong move.
BANFIELD: And yet -- and yet it worked, as you said, despite him.
There`s something about the issue of pulling a weapon. And this one stood out. It was a red flag to me during the hearing. I don`t know if it was
lost on the commissioners. I don`t know if they felt it was important enough. But I want to play for you a moment something where O.J. talks
about the kind of guy he is and whether he`s ever pulled a weapon on anyone before. Have a listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
O.J. SIMPSON: I`m no danger to pull a gun on anybody. You know, I never have in my life. I`ve never been accused of it in my life. Nobody`s ever
accused me of pulling any weapon on them. And Bruce knows that I would never do that. I never have.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BANFIELD: Gloria Allred, you were integrally involved in the 1994 murder case that culminated in a 1995 acquittal. And I believe -- but I`m not a
lawyer and you are -- that someone did accuse him of pulling a weapon on someone and went even further to accuse him of murder. Why would that not
be something that the parole commissioners would say, I`m sorry, Mr. Simpson, but you have been accused of pulling a weapon on people before?
GLORIA ALLRED, REPRESENTED BROWN FAMILY DURING MURDER TRIAL: Well, this is very disturbing. I`m glad you brought up this point, Ashleigh, because as
one of the commissioners stated, the parole board commissioners, they can - - they have not considered -- apparently, they cannot consider the civil lawsuit verdict by a jury against Mr. Simpson in which a jury found that,
in fact, he was liable for the killing, for the death of Nicole Brown Simpson, may she rest in peace, and also Ron Goldman, may he rest in peace.
[20:15:20]And that killing was done by a knife. He slashed the throat of the mother of his children. Now, this jury found that by a preponderance
of the evidence. In addition, they awarded punitive damages. Punitive damages are damages to punish, and -- and they`re awarded when a jury finds
malice or fraud or oppression. And that -- the jury is the conscience of the community, and they found that he killed Nicole and Ron.
Yet that civil verdict, that judgment by a court was never was permitted to come into the risk factors, the criteria that the Nevada parole board was
able to consider. That`s wrong. I think the law should be changed in Nevada to consider a wrongful death judgment in the future because I think
it bears on, is there a risk to the community if that offender is released?
BANFIELD: I want to bring Yale Galanter in for this next question. Yale, as his defense attorney in this case at the beginning, you have followed
every machination of it, including today. And there is a lot of technical business that needs to play out after today`s hearing wrapped up, the
paperwork that`s about to be filed. The release plans for O.J. Simpson maybe as early as October 1st, and then, ultimately, the release into the
community.
But it`s a question of what community. O.J. has told his lawyers he doesn`t want to step foot in Nevada again. And he has intimated he`d like
to go back to the state where you`re from, Florida. However, Florida has to say OK. Do you think Florida`s going to say no way?
YALE GALANTER, REPRESENTED SIMPSON DURING VEGAS ROBBERY CASE: No, I think Florida will let him live there. He`s got a lot of community support in
Florida. He`s got family in Florida. He`s got ties to Florida.
The real issue is whether or not O.J. is going agree to what Florida wants because as you know, Nevada`s going to have their own set of rules and
regulations and Florida can amend those rules and regulations. So he`s got a lot of hurdles to climb, but I think, ultimately, he`ll end up in
Florida.
The real issue, of course, is everybody`s talking about how O.J. Is free. And being on parole is not freedom. Being on parole is being on legal
restraint. He`s going to have all these rules and regulations, and the real issue is whether he can follow them and stay out of prison.
BANFIELD: And that lasts until September of 2022. Do the math. It`s another five years. Some might say, you know, Whoopee, the guy didn`t get
life in prison for murder. And five more years of probation is little solace to those who feel that he was not just responsible but also guilty
of the murders.
Hold for one moment because I want to go back to this hearing for a moment. If you didn`t follow it from, you know, gavel to gavel, there were a couple
of moments that maybe haven`t played out on the news that you don`t usually see a second time.
There was laughter. There was actually several moments of laughter in this hear, and there were also tears. And I wanted to play for you not only the
laughter with O.J. Simpson and everybody in the room, but then the tears that were displayed by his daughter, Arnelle. Have a look.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We have that you are currently -- well, very recently turned 90 years old. 90 -- I`m sorry about that.
(LAUGHTER)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: You look great for 90!
(LAUGHTER)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: How about we take two decades off and call you 70?
Mr. Simpson, you are getting the same hearing that everyone else gets. I want to make that clear from the get-go. However, since we have a crowd of
people here...
O.J. SIMPSON: I could easily stay in Nevada, but I don`t think you guys want me here.
(LAUGHTER)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: "These new skills at the very minimum will help me better communicate with my children. Who knows, you may even see a Webcast
or a blog in my future. I work in the athletic department here at Lovelock...
(LAUGHTER)
ARNELLE SIMPSON, DAUGHTER: I`m a little nervous, so bear with me.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (INAUDIBLE)
A. SIMPSON: I know it`s a lot. Excuse me. He`s like my best friend and my rock.
BRUCE FROMONG, ROBBERY VICTIM: And if he called me tomorrow and said, Bruce, I`m getting out, will you pick me up? Juice, I`ll be here tomorrow.
I mean that, buddy.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
[20:20:05]BANFIELD: I want to bring in Michael McClinton. Michael McClinton was one of the co-conspirators. Michael McClinton was sentenced
because he was also one of the gunmen. And Michael McClinton, If I`m not mistaken, you didn`t even know O.J. before that fateful hour. So when you
see this hearing and you see the laughter, I was wondering how you thought about it. Did you feel this was a laughing matter?
MICHAEL MCCLINTON, CO-DEFENDANT IN ROBBERY CASE: Yes, well, Mr. Simpson thought it was a laughing matter. I never thought that it was a laughing
matter. He found some humor in it by way of -- wherever he decided to find it. He is that sort of a guy. But I didn`t take it as a laughing matter
by any means.
BANFIELD: Did you find any offense in today`s hearing and his attitude or the moments of levity? Was there -- what was your overall takeaway
watching that hearing today?
MCCLINTON: Well, as I watched it, you know, I saw a different-looking O.J. He obviously lost a little weight. I saw some worry. He looked like he
was worried, and rightfully so. I saw that he was a little nervous. But he just seemed to be the same guy to me. He just looks a little slimmer.
You know, I know the man was worried about him making parole, but he seemed to be the same person that I met some time ago.
BANFIELD: Not a changed man. And in fact, I think a couple of times, he tried to throw you under the bus, suggesting it was you and it was also
Walter Alexander who had the guns, that he didn`t have the guns. At one point, Bruce Fromong I think even called you a coward who was coming in all
gangster style. How did that affect you? What were you thinking when you were hearing them characterize you that during that hearing?
MCCLINTON: Well, I`d like to address what Mr. Fromong has been saying for a while. Mr. Fromong know (sic) know for a fact I never pointed that gun.
Mr. Fromong know he was on one side of that small room and me and O.J. Simpson were on the other side.
And for the longest period of time now, he`s been saying that I came in gangster style. He even said that I turned the gun sideways. I want to
tell everybody who`s watching this Bruce Fromong is a liar, and he`s been a liar for a while. You know, if Mr. Fromong would like to talk about
something, maybe we should Google his name and see what he`s been arrested for. You know, he`s got a lot of things on his jacket.
BANFIELD: Well, I want to bring in your -- - your -- the co-conspirator in the case and someone who was a good friend of yours, Walter Alexander. You
both were the gunmen, effectively, in this case, both of you having admitting to that and having been sentenced for that, also having testified
in O.J.`s trial against him regarding that incident.
Walter, you have said before, the minute I pulled the gun, I knew it was a robbery. Did O.J. Simpson ever get the sense during or in all the
celebratory behavior afterwards and the drinking afterwards that night -- did he ever get the same sense you did?
WALTER ALEXANDER, CO-DEFENDANT IN ROBBERY CASE: First of all, I want to apologize to my old friend, Mr. Spencer McClinton. You know, he would have
never got in this problem had he not known me. I`m sorry for that, Spencer.
O.J. totally has begun to believe his own lies. Some people lie so long -- and he`s had nine years to convince himself that, you know, what he is
saying is true, evidently. But I know he knows, just like Riccio said, you know, people have asked me, Well, do you think O.J. is going to do this or
that when he gets out?
Well, first of all, O.J. knows what happened because he planned the whole thing, and me or Spencer would have never been there had he not asked us to
bring guns. So you know, I`m happy for him. You know, definitely for what happened that night, he has definitely did more than enough time for what
happened because we were in that room only two or three minutes, you know?
And -- but he was definitely the person who told us to bring the guns. He definitely told Mr. McClinton to put the gun in his hand right before he
went through the door. And you know, he`s -- he`s lied about this whole thing today.
I`m disappointed just because he`s still throwing me and him under the bus, me and Spencer under the bus when, you know, it was definitely his idea.
And he has not -- I don`t believe he has any remorse for what he did, how he interrupted our lives and the different friendships. To this day, I
have children that hold that night against me. You know, I`ve -- you know, both of our lives were really tossed up when that happened, you know? We
lost a lot, you know?
[20:25:18]BANFIELD: I mean, I think that that`s the understatement. I think that`s an understatement. Your lives were all tossed up without
question. But Mr. McClinton, I mean, this is pretty extraordinary. Mr. Alexander is apologizing to you right here on television for having ever
brought you into this in the first place. Do you want to say anything back to him?
MCCLINTON: Well, you know, I understand what happened, and I accept his apology, you know? Whether we`ll ever be friends like we were again,
that`s to be questioned, you know? But I do agree with Mr. Walter Alexander that Simpson was the ringleader. You know, I wouldn`t have never
participated in nothing like that in my life, you know, if I had of known that this man would have walked in that room and started the commotion that
he did, ask me the draw a weapon like he asked me to do. I wouldn`t have never been involved in that.
And the other thing with Mr. Simpson -- he has to sit back at some point and take responsibility for what he created. He did that. He got what he
asked for. And this man (INAUDIBLE)
ALEXANDER: Mr. Simpson...
MCCLINTON: ... denying the fact that -- he`s (INAUDIBLE) denying the fact that...
ALEXANDER: Mr. Simpson owes us an apology. He definitely owes me and you an apology.
BANFIELD: Well, we`re getting a little bit of -- we`re getting a little crosstalk because of our delay between the two of you, Mr Alexander, Mr.
McClinton.
If you stand by for a moment, I want to continue this conversation. And I do find it extraordinary that the two of you are having a meeting of the
minds in such an unusual time post this extraordinary moment of the announcement of O.J. Simpson being granted parole.
I want to take a live look, if I can, of O.J.`s home right now. It`s the Lovelock Correctional Center. That`s about 100 miles northeast of me right
now, and it is a dusty, dry speck in the middle of the desert. It`s been O.J.`s prison home for more than -- almost nine years, but in just about 72
days, he could be busting out of there as a free man. And then this...
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
FROMONG: I`ve known O.J. for a long time. I don`t feel that he`s a threat to anyone out there. He`s a good man. I know that that he does a lot for
other people. And I feel that nine-and-a-half to 33 years was way too long.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BANFIELD: O.J.`s victim appealing to the board to give his former friend a break, and it was the only time O.J. shed a tear. Or did he? I`m going
play that for you again after this break. Take a closer look at the emotional moment from today`s parole hearing, and you decide if O.J.`s
emotion at that moment was just an act.
[20:30:00] (COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BRUCE FROMONG, FORMER ROBBERY VICTIM OF O.J. SIMPSON: I`ve known O.J. for a long time.
O.J. SIMPSON, FORMER FOOTBALL PLAYER, CONVICTED OF ARMED ROBBERY AND KIDNAPPING, ACCUSED OF MURDER: I would never, ever pull a weapon on
anybody.
FROMONG: O.J. never held a gun on me.
SIMPSON: You know, it was my property. I wouldn`t ever steal from anybody.
FROMONG: If he called me tomorrow and said, Bruce, I`m getting out --
CONNIE BISBEE, CHAIRMAN, NEVADA BOARD OF PAROLE COMMISSIONERS: Our expectation would be that you will not violate even the simplest condition
of parole.
FROMONG: Juice, I`ll be here tomorrow.
BISBEE: I do vote to grant parole when eligible.
SIMPSON: Thank you.
(APPLAUSE)
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ASHLEIGH BANFIELD, PRIMETIME JUSTICE SHOW HOST: You heard it. In just a few short months, O.J. Simpson will once again be walking as a free machine in
America after spending nearly nine years at the Lovelock Prison in Nevada. The Nevada Parole Board voted unanimously, four of them, to set O.J.
Simpson loose. My panel is back with me tonight. Gloria Allred, I have this question for you about opportunists.
There are so many people in this country who are so angry still with O.J. Simpson, who still want to see O.J. Simpson serving time for 1995`s
acquittal. Is it possible that these opportunists will seek to provoke him -- provoke him into a parole violation that will bring him right back here
to Nevada?
GLORIA ALLRED, LAWYER, REPRESENTED BROWN FAMILY DURING O.J. MURDER TRIAL: I wouldn`t agree that they`re opportunists, and the second point is that it`s
up to Mr. Simpson to take care of his anger management issues, and no one can provoke anyone else unless the person who supposedly is being provoked
allows himself or herself to be provoked. And so I know Mr. Simpson appears to have a history of blaming other people, but I don`t buy it. He is
responsible. And also, it`s not only that wrongful death verdict --
BANFIELD: Do you think people will seek him out for that very reason, Gloria? Do you think they will go out seeking specifically to make an
incident, to see if they can be the one that got him back and locked up?
ALLRED: You know, I think that, you know, people will understand that the parole board made their decision, and you know, they may confront him,
hopefully in a legal manner, in a peaceful manner. But people are also upset and rightfully so, that the wrongful death of Nicole and Ron was not
taken into account. What about the 1989 conviction for his spousal battery of Nicole, where we saw a photo of her, Ashleigh, at the civil trial
[20:35:00] in which we saw her face with a black eye, with a cut lip, with bruises, with a swollen face inflicted by Mr. Simpson on her? What about
that?
BANFIELD: You know, you make a good point, you make a great point, you make a great point which is why I am curious about O.J. Simpson`s temper and
parole violations are so easy to make. And I have to add this. Joey Jackson, I want to bring you into this conversation as well. Think about
the time line here, guys. O.J. Simpson went to Lovelock one year after the iPhone was introduced.
There was no social media frenzy that there is today. Everybody has a camera phone now. Everybody tweets and tells you where famous people are.
O.J. Simpson can be tracked in Real Time at any moment for the $33 million judgment if he`s out making a buck, or for the incident he may get involved
with. This is something serious because it is easy to screw up, isn`t it, Joey?
JOEY JACKSON, CRIMINAL DEFENSE ATTORNEY, CNN AND HLN LEGAL ANALYST: A 100 percent, absolutely it is. So he has to be very careful. He has a fresh
start. It will be up to him largely what happens with his life. Will he use it for good or something else? But if you will, I have to address something
that Gloria Allred is speaking about, a woman`s advocate, a victim`s advocate, a track record beyond no other.
I respect that. But when we start talking about going far field of what this (INAUDIBLE) considered, I think we really need to pause. When we start
talking about spousal abusers now, that`s significant. No woman ever should be demeaned ever under any circumstance. But when you talk about bringing
into this parole board really something that happened in 1989 and suggesting that it`s probative and it has value to a 70-year-old man and
who he is today, I think we have to wait a minute.
When we talk about allowing a wrongful death action in a civil case where there is a preponderance of the evidence -- for those at home, is it more
likely than not that he did it and talk about how they should evaluate it, I think we have to pause.
ALLRED: You`re wrong.
JACKSON: This Nevada board did what they should have done. Well, in your view, I am. In my view, I am absolutely right. And the reason I am right is
because --
ALLRED: May I tell you why you are wrong, factually you`re wrong on the facts that I am sharing --
JACKSON: Please.
ALLRED: -- you know I have a lot of respect for you, Joey, but look. The civil jury found not by preponderance of the evidence which is more
probable than not, but a higher burden of proof for punitive damages which is by clear and convincing evidence that he was liable for, responsible for
the death of Nicole and the death of Ron, and it is necessary for that higher burden of proof to be proven in order to be awarded punitive
damages. So that`s --
(CROSSTALK)
ALLRED: And it should be.
JACKSON: OK, let`s --
ALLRED: I`m not saying this parole board should have considered it. I`m saying the law needs to be changed in Nevada so that they could have
considered it instead of engaging in this legal fiction that that never happened --
JACKSON: Of course not.
ALLRED: -- that that is not relevant. They should be --
JACKSON: It`s not.
ALLRED: -- aware of the public record and take that into account in their criteria.
JACKSON: It`s not a legal fiction. What we do in this society is we prove someone guilty beyond a reasonable doubt. We have that standard for a
reason. We could split hairs and talk about to the viewers, clear and convincing because we want to punish someone, it`s more significant, but at
the end of day, what you evaluate are prior convictions.
Conviction means that you did it at a jury reasonably sure, not clear and convincing, not beyond a preponderance, but they`re sure. In this case, I
know America always want to talk about it and we`ll always talk about how he may have gotten away with murder, but the jury ruled what they ruled.
And as an outstanding lawyer that you are, we live and die by what jury said. We have to respect that. I think --
ALLRED: But that`s not the point. The point is a parole that should be taking into account other factors.
JACKSON: They should not. They should not.
BANFIELD: I don`t want to re-litigate that issue because there`s so much more that I want to cover from today as well, in particular, Arnelle,
because Arnelle Simpson perhaps stole the show today. She was absolutely outstanding in what she said.
I mean, talking about the fact that it was counterproductive what my dad did back then in Vegas. It was wrong, what he did back then, and it was not
the least bit foresightful. It was not, however, what O.J. Simpson said. Listen to how Arnelle characterized her dad`s behavior.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ARNELLE SIMPSON, DAUGHTER OF O.J. SIMPSON: On behalf of my family, my brother, my sister, an aunt, an uncle, his friends, we just want him to
come home. We really do. We want him to come home, and I know in my heart that he is very humbled.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BANFIELD: Yale Galanter, there`s his daughter telling the parole board that he is very humbled after nine years at Lovelock. And yet a parole
commissioner asked him outright, Mr. Simpson, are you humble? And he did not answer. Do you think that that was something in the
[20:40:00] deliberations that was really tricky for them to maneuver around?
YALE GALANTER, FORMER ATTORNEY FOR O.J. SIMPSON: Well, you know, we spoke about this this afternoon. I think that the parole board decision was
really a fait accompli. I think it could have gone south. What I will tell you, as I told you before, Arnelle really was the star of the show. She
spoke from the heart. She spoke as a loving daughter. She said to the parole board, my dad is not a perfect man.
And O.J. did not say any of that. And I got to tell you. To have a daughter speak in front of a parole board about a father the way she spoke honestly
with humility from the heart had to move those commissioners. Even though I think they believed they were going to grant him parole before the hearing
started today, I think she sealed the deal. Additionally, in my 35 years of practice, I have never seen a victim like Bruce Fromong stand up to the
plate and bat it out at the ball park like he did.
He also spoke from the heart. He spoke about the fact that he knew O.J. He spoke about the fact that he forgave him. He spoke about the fact that he
thought that nine years was enough. And then finally, he looked at those parole commissioners and he said, if O.J. need a ride home from Lovelock
and he called me, I`d give it to him. How much more could a victim have done to ensure that somebody gets released on parole? You know --
BANFIELD: That`s it. That`s the moment.
(LAUGHTER)
GALANTER: Yes.
BANFIELD: So, that`s the moment. I wanted to go to next. So you gave the perfect tease. And that was the moment where O.J. actually appeared to tear
up. It was the moment where Bruce Fromong, who was a victim of the crime, who recommended one to three years of sentencing for O.J. Simpson, whose
co-victim is now deceased and could not be here if he wanted to be here.
But there was Bruce Fromong saying, I was his friend and I hope we still can be friends. I want to play for you that moment, but I want to direct
you to O.J.`s tears. You be the judge if you think they`re real. Have a look.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
FROMONG: I`ve known O.J. for a long time. I don`t feel that he`s a threat to anyone out there. He`s a good man. I know that he does a lot for other
people. And I feel that 9-1/2 to 33 years was way too long. And I feel that it`s time to give him a second chance.
It`s time for him to go home to his family, his friends. This is a good man. He made a mistake. If he called me tomorrow and said, Bruce, I`m
getting out. Will you pick me up? Juice, I`ll be here tomorrow for you. I mean that, buddy.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BANFIELD: Walter Alexander, since you were a close friend of O.J.`s and perhaps knew him better than anybody on the panel right now at one time.
Did you think that was real? That moment where he wiped away a tear but had not done that when his daughter was crying during her appeal to the parole
board?
WALTER ALEXANDER, CO-DEFENDANT IN O.J. ROBBERY CASE: If anybody remembers any of his movies, you would remember that he was a bad actor then and he
was a bad actor today. O.J. Simpson will stand before a judge again, and he will eventually pay for everything that he has done on this earth.
Because God knows when you`re lying, he knows when you`re faking, he knows when you`re being real. And one day, in judgment day, he will stand before
the ultimate judge and he will pay for everything that he has done.
BANFIELD: Well, before that day comes, O.J. Simpson intimated in a letter to his former appellate attorney who`s now a state legislator here in
Nevada. Ozzie Fumo is his name. In that letter, he said to Ozzie, I have been taking computer courses and who knows, I may be on a web cast in the
future.
That was actually a moment brought up in the hearing today at which point they said no, no, no, you`re not going to do that. He agreed, no, no, no.
I`m not so sure it was a joke. I`m not so sure that that comment in the letter wasn`t true.
[20:45:00] So, Michael McClinton, I want to ask you that same question I asked you before. It wasn`t a laughing matter today. If O.J. Simpson ends
up on a web cast and almost more famous than he was before, what is that like for you since your life has been so irrevocably changed?
MICHAEL MCCLINTON, CO-DEFENDANT IN O.J. ROBBERY CASE: Well, if Mr. Simpson happens to wind up one that kind of a show, I think it`s people wanting to
see him in the limelight, you know. I think what Mr. Simpson should do is what he said today. When he`s released from prison, he is to take himself
to his family and disappear. He needs to take himself to his family and disappear, because it`s more than obvious that the man has had his fair
share of run-ins with the law, fair shares of trouble.
You would think by the second or third chance that he`s been given in life, that he would disappear like his friend, Al, and just live your life with
your family. And the heck with standing in front of a camera, the heck with trying to write another book, those days, he should just say they`re over
with, and go on with his life like he told the parole board today. I think that`s what he should do.
BANFIELD: Tom Riccio, I want to ask you, with a different angle, through a different prism, something I was getting at with you before. You recorded
that incident in which we heard O.J. be angry. The hair-trigger anger that he is known to have by those who know him, by those who have been in the
path of his anger, the hair-trigger anger may have shown itself today in the hearing to four people he needed to appeal to in the best light.
One of those commissioners was trying to get him to answer, what were you thinking. And out came this very long excuse for what happened that night.
And he went back at him about the property that he was trying to recover. That commissioner prodded him by saying, you thought that property was
yours. And O.J.`s reaction came through gritted teeth. I want to play that moment again and I want to get your reaction to that. Have a look.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: So you believe that the property was yours?
SIMPSON: It`s been ruled legally by the state of California that it was my property, and they have given it to me.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: My question was, that`s why you went into the hotel room, because you believed that the property was yours, is that right?
SIMPSON: Yes.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BANFIELD: Tom Riccio, this is the best case circumstance of being in a controlled environment, trying to look your best in front of people who
hold the keys to the rest of your life, and yet he got angry and he clenched his teeth. I wonder what your thought was about that for when he`s
not in the best-case scenario and he`s not in a controlled environment.
THOMAS RICCIO, ORCHESTRATED O.J.`S VEGAS STING: Look, again, I don`t know O.J. intimately. I`ve seen him five or six times. He was always friendly
and nice. In that particular time, you know, when he was in the room yelling and screaming, I think that was part of his plan to intimidate
everybody.
We all get mad sometimes. You know, O.J. is O.J. You know, the fact that he didn`t apologize, I believe he believes what he believes. That`s what we
are saying. You know, There`s other things you can get him for other than that, being who he is in that particular situation, I think.
BANFIELD: He also said to the commissioners, you know, as he recounted what happened that night -- and Tom, you`re good to answer this as well. He said
things that do not line up with the official record. And one of commissioners actually said that, he said, quote, your version of events
differs from the official record, so effectively, it`s like a lie. Were you surprised to hear a different version of events from a guy who`s asking,
you know, for the help of four people who are judging him?
RICCIO: The part that was played over to me was that he regrets getting the call from me. It`s true, I did call him. I was advised by the police to
call him. What he did after he got a call from me is something he should rethink and hopefully never does it again, get people together and brings
gun to a room.
You know, I don`t know particularly what you`re speaking about that he said that -- I heard many, many lies from Bruce Fromong who knew the stuff was
stolen. He was sitting there and saying, this is my stuff, it wasn`t stolen. He was dealing in stolen goods.
[20:50:00] He knew it was stolen. I wish you would give me a particular instance regarding O.J. --
BANFIELD: I`ll tell you what he says right before, yes, right before the commissioner Tony Corda made that comment, like, your version of events
does certainly differ with the official record, O.J. had described having a key to the room, putting the key in as opposed to charging through, talking
gingerly with Bruce Fromong and Alfred Beardsley, when on your tape, he heard him saying, don`t nobody move. Do you think you can steal my stuff? I
mean, it was certainly not a kind and delicate confrontation, the way he was --
RICCIO: Yes, I mean, it `s splitting hairs at this point. It`s splitting hairs but he didn`t have the key to my room. However, I had the key to my
room. And I was there with him. I`m the one that opened the door at let him in. But like I said, there are so many other mistakes he made. How about
gathering these guys up, you know, telling them to bring guns, turning it into an armed robbery.
Whether he had the key or he didn`t, to me, I mean, I don`t know why anybody would want to dwell on that. He didn`t break into my room, I let
him in. But it was an armed robbery in the end and technically it was a kidnapping. Maybe he shouldn`t done all that, you know.
BANFIELD: Joey Jackson, I want to bring you in on this. The one factor that O.J. sort of had to admit failure on, and that was when the commissioner
said, you told us four years ago when you were before this board that you would attend AA because this incident was alcohol fueled and that brings it
up to be an issue. You told us you would attend AA, did you?
And O.J. Simpson really screwed at it saying, I`ve never had an alcohol problem. That`s not my issue. I don`t have a whole lot of time to sit
around there and do those kinds of things. I thought it was a sort of jaw dropping.
JACKSON: Yes, I think it was problematic and it was for a couple of reasons. The first of which is the commissioner remember, Ashleigh,
predicated her words by saying, you told us that you were going to. And therefore, when there was a commitment made, there should be a commitment
kept. The second issue I had with it was the justification that was attached to it and to be clear, listen, he got parole, he deserved to get
parole by any measure, nine years perhaps too long of a time, risk factors very low, people there supporting him.
But my issue with the whole thing is that it`s about contrition. It`s about being remorseful. It`s about recognizing and respecting change and looking
and owning your conduct and since he didn`t do that, it presented a problem for me. And, you know, going in Ashleigh, I`ll say this, I just thought, I
was one who thought, you know what, he`s got it.
He`s got parole, he`s out of there, it`s all good. I really got worried though in all fairness and honesty, once he started talking, I said, oh, he
just very well maybe back here next year fortunately because of the good faith of the commission, he was not, and he was paroled.
BANFIELD: So, this was effectively a strong armed robbery. And to that end, while Walter Alexander recognized that it was strong armed robbery and so,
walking out of there, Michael McClinton, you actually heard O.J. say that, because you were out celebrating later that night, and you decided there
was something untoward about what had just happened.
You roll taped yourself on O.J. and you collected audio tape of O.J. Simpson, and his reference and his characterization of what had just
happened in that hotel room. I want to play for you something from ABC`s 20/20, that tape, that very short comment that O.J. made to you in that
celebratory atmosphere. Have a listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SIMPSON: It was a strong armed robbery. They came in with guns.
(LAUGHTER)
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BANFIELD: So, I mean, I could hear him laughing, Mr. McClinton. Was everybody laughing? Did anybody have any idea what was about to happen one
year later and then 10 years later today?
MCCLINTON: Well, I think we all had an idea of what took place. Like I said before, Mr. Simpson was just Mr. Laughing guy about it. He thought it was
funny. I don`t think he realized the severity of what was to come. He pretty much speaks for himself, he laughed about it, and we all laughed
about it, we laughed with him, we did a robbery with him, you know, as petty as the robbery was, we did it. But, Mr. Simpson in my opinion, he has
no remorse for what happened and --
BANFIELD: He said today that -- he actually used the words, I`ll quote him. I haven`t lived a criminal life. This was part of his appeal.
[20:55:00] And I want to bring Gloria Allred into that comment. Because I can only imagine what the Goldman family and the Browns were thinking if
they even digested a minute of this hearing today. You represented the Browns. Do you have any idea how that landed or how it would have landed?
ALLRED: You know, I don`t know. But all I can tell you is, I know that there was a lot of grief and, you know, just heartfelt pain at the killing
of their beloved daughter. And, you know, we`re not hearing a comment today. Life is very complicated. My guess is the children would like to be
able to see their father again, which is completely understandable.
But Ashleigh, spare me, that tear of O.J. Simpson, come on, where are the violins under it? This man was a screen actor`s guild member. This is
someone who is talking about making a mistake, crimes. Armed robbery is not a mistake. It`s an intentional act. It`s a felony. He`s been convicted of
multiple felonies.
Spare me this charm offensive that he was providing to this parole board today and they didn`t even really cross-examine him at all about some of
the statements he made which are in contradiction of facts and contradictions of statements that have been made in the past.
So, do I feel any sympathy for O.J. Simpson? Not at all. He was concerned that his family photographs were being taken by someone else? Come on. The
mother of two children was killed by him. She will never see any photographs again, they`ll never see her in person again. That`s what real
loss is all about, not something he has ever acknowledged.
BANFIELD: Then I can completely understand that as the advocate for the Browns, Yale Galanter, I would like you to step into that debate as well.
Watching that clip of Bruce Fromong saying, O.J., if you call me and you need to be picked up from this prison, I`ll pick you up, Juice, to which
you saw there the response. He looked down and wiped away a tear. You know the man. You just defended him during this case. Do you believe that tear
was real?
GALANTER: Yes, 100 percent. I think it was overwhelming for him. I mean, sometimes people laugh in these hearings because they need to break the
seriousness. Listen, I think everybody was moved by what Bruce said and I think everybody was moved by what Arnelle said. That was not something you
had to act for.
Those were very heartfelt, warm, genuine, moving words spoken by both of them. And I don`t care whether you were an O.J. supporter or not, you had
to be moved by that. And I think O.J. sitting there hearing Bruce go to bat for him totally moved him. I think it was totally genuine.
BANFIELD: I was very moved as well, but it was by Arnelle, not so much by Bruce Fromong. If any time --
GALANTER: You know, I was --
BANFIELD: -- it would be at that time. You know, I`m so out of time. I can`t thank you enough, Yale, and all of my guests tonight for being so
thoughtful about this moment. This is a milestone in American culture and history. O.J. has many milestones that has been going on for a quarter of a
century. To all six of you, thank you so much for being a part of this this evening.
We really appreciate it. Seventy-two days from now. That`s October 1st. It is the earliest date that O.J. Simpson could walk out of the prison as a
free man. For 23 years, O.J. Simpson has generated headlines and has sparked furious debate over his controversial acquittal in the death of
Nicole Brown and Ron Goldman. Legally innocent. He has never been able to escape the shadow of their murders.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Witness discovered the body of Nicole Brown Simpson. The second body, Mr. Ronald Goldman.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Los Angeles Police Department right now is actively searching for Mr. Simpson.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Gloves didn`t fit. It doesn`t fit. You must acquit.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Find the defendant. O.J. Simpson not guilty of the crime of murder.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Don`t let nobody out of this room.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Again suspected of possible involvement in a serious crime, this time it`s robbery at a Las Vegas hotel.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We were just robbed at gunpoint by O.J. Simpson.
SIMPSON: I wasn`t there to hurt anybody.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Count one, guilty. Count two, guilty. Count three, guilty. Count four, guilty. Count five, guilty. Count six, guilty. Count
seven, guilty. Count eight, guilty. Count nine, guilty. Count 10, guilty. Count 11, guilty. Count 12, guilty.
[21:00:00] SIMPSON: I`m sorry for all of it.
I am sorry. I have done my time.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Grant your parole.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Grant parole.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Agree to grant parole.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Vote to grant parole.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BANFIELD: Live from Carson City.
END
