Return to Transcripts main page
Crime and Justice With Ashleigh Banfield
Suspected Terrorist in Custody After Pipe Bomb in NYC Subway. Aired 6-8p ET
Aired December 11, 2017 - 18:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
ASHLEIGH BANFIELD, ANCHOR, CRIME AND JUSTICE: It is six o`clock Eastern. I`m Ashleigh Banfield here.
Your headlines tonight, a suspected terrorist in custody after setting off an explosive device in the New York City subway during rush hour this
morning. Four people injured, including 27-year-old Bangladeshi suspect.
Six major wildfires continueto burn through Southern California. Hundreds of firefighters working around the clock to keep those fires from
spreading, but they are facing very high winds today. So far 94,000 people, think about it, 94,000 people have been evacuated.
The body of missing 17-year-old Maggie Long was identified in the charred remains of her own family`s Colorado home. A home burnt down the night she
disappeared and arson is suspected and death is now being investigated as a homicide.
And an 84-year-old veteran used the handgun that he keeps loaded under his pillow to defend himself against home intruders this weekend. He shot one
of them dead and even though the local police are reviewing the case, they say, they do think this appears to bejustified.
And we begin in depth tonight with a disturbing video that`s just been released from a shooting ina motel hallway where Arizona police met an
unarmed man last year.
They were responding to a call about a gun being pointed out ofa window, but pretty soon, it was an officer`sgun that was pointed at an innocent
guest. You`re about to see Daniel Shaver crawl out of his room on the floor, obey every single order that he is given, even plead and beg for his
life. But suddenly, he is gunned down in a moment that his family is calling an execution.
(VIDEOCLIP BEGINS)
PHILIP BRAILSFORD, POLICE OFFICER, MESA POLICE DEPARTMENT: . and do not make a mistake. You are to keep your legs crossed, do you understand me?
DANIEL SHAVER, VICTIM, GRANBURY, TEXAS: Yes, sir.
BRAILSFORD: You are to put both of your hands, arms down straight up in front of you. Push yourself up to kneeling position. I said keep your legs
crossed.
SHAVER: Sorry.
BRAILSFORD: I didn`t say there`s a conversation. Get your hands up in the air. You do that again, we`re shootingyou. Do you understand?
SHAVER: Please don`t shoot me.
BRAILSFORD: Then listen to my instructions.
SHAVER: I`m trying to just do what you.
BRAILSFORD: Don`t talk. Listen. Hands straight up in the air. Do not put your hands down for any reason. You think you`re going to fall, you better
fall on your face. Your hands go back in the small of your back or not, we are going to shoot you, do you understand me?
SHAVER: Yes, sir.
BRAILSFORD: Crawl towards me. Crawl towards me.
SHAVER: Yes, sir.
BRAILSFORD: Don`t talk.
(VIDEOCLIP ENDS)
BANFIELD: That video is hard to watch on its own and perhaps harder towatch when you learn that the officer was just found not guilty of murder
because he says, Daniel Shaver reached for his waistband in a move that the police say was threatening to an officer onlocation.
Tragically, Shaver likely reached for his waistband in order to pull up his loose basketball shorts because they`ve been pulled down by the act of
crawling down that hallway.
(VIDEOCLIP BEGINS)
LANEY SWEET, GRANBURY TEXAS: He was my husbandand my kids` fatherand it definitely matters to us. And now, all that`s left of him is this.
(VIDEOCLIP ENDS)
BANFIELD: Attorney Mark Geragos represents the Shaver family and he joins me from Providence, Rhode Island. Mark, thank you for joining me tonight. I
do want to ask you about some of the very strong language that`s been used to describe this. You along with the victim`s family have called this an
execution. Do you think that might be a little too much?
MARK GERAGOS, ATTORNEY, PROVIDENCE, RHODE ISLAND: No, in fact I`ll bet your producers wouldn`t even let you play the whole video because it was
too strong for TV and I will tell you, I watched this unfold in Phoenix and I knew that this is what was going to happen. They didn`t want to release
thistape. We fought both in the trial court and the appellate courts to get it out because I knew what was going to happen.
They were engineering basically an acquittal to get this officerkind of outside of the criminal justice system because anybody with any neurons
firing who watches this is not only appalled, but I`ve had combat veterans call out to me, telling me that if this were in Fallujah, this would be a
war crime.
And the idea that somehow this jury didn`t understand or well, the jury did understand the instructions. The instructions they were givenwere basically
directing a not guilty verdict. They didn`t hear that the officer had engraved on his gun. I don`t know if you know this, Ashleigh, but he had
expletive then on the gun and this guy was a failed actor who was obviously hopped up on something.
The sergeant who was there, as soon as they did an investigation, they started an Internal Affairs investigation, he resigned and fled to the
Philippines. This is one of the most outrageous stories.
BANFIELD: So Mark, I`m going to show the audience what you just mentioned. This is the officer`s AR-15 and the reason it`s blurred out in that middle
section just near that orange tag is because what Mark was describing was something that was etched into the officer`s gun and the actual words were.
"You`re F`ed."
And Mark, it`s important for our audience to know that this is his personal gun that apparently, this jurisdiction allows these officers to have their
personal guns with them as they execute their daily duties.
They are not allowed to have that kind of profanity and that was something that was ultimately part of a parcel of things that led to him being fired.
I do want to just to back track a little bit.
GERAGOS: You know, Ashleigh, could I tellyou one thing though.
BANFIELD: Yes.
GERAGOS: Okay, I was just going to say. He was fired. He is now apparently trying to get job back with the support of local police union now, which
tells you what you need to know about what`s going on. If there`s ever a case that the Department of Justice should go after, this is the case.
If this isn`t a violation of civil rights, I don`t know what is.
BANFIELD: And let`s be clear, in terms of the injustice the family feels, you`re representing the family. You are currently involved in a civil suit
against the city of Mesa, correct?
GERAGOS: Correct. And I will you that little that that`s going to do little to no good to bring back, obviously, the father ofthese two little
girls. I can`t tell you, Ashleigh, you have to sit in that courtroom as I did and have the widow, Laney, watch that footage for the second timeand go
into convulsions.
Literally, I had to bear hug her to stop her from just going into almost a fit. And if you watch the entire video, you will be so repulsed. You will
so understand exactly what I`m talking about and I get fired up just talking about it because it`s such an outrage.
I`ve never seen a criminal justice system fail so miserablyas what happened here and I think it points to, Ashleigh, something that maybe you`ve
noticed. You can`t have the state courts and a local DA whose investigating officer in this case is from the same departmentthat you`re prosecuting
somebodyand at the same time have officers of that department sitting in the courtroom supporting the officer who is ontrial wearing the black polo
shirts with the badge on it to basically intimidate the juryin that courtroom and it`s.
BANFIELD: Is the report that I`ve read,Mark, in one of the papers covering this story that the lawsuit against the city of Mesais for $75 million, is
that accurate?
GERAGOS: Yes. I mean, you have to ask for an amount, yes.
BANFIELD: Right.
GERAGOS: Nothing would make me happier than to bankrupt the City of Mesa.
BANFIELD: That`s a strong message. You`re saying it`s not going to make a difference. I understand what you say to thechildren of this and let`s all
be really clear.
GERAGOS: Right.
BANFIELD: That Daniel Shaver was unarmed. Daniel Shaver had been in his room, any little missing pieces of thelink here? Daniel was in his room.
There had been a report that came into the police of a man pointing a gun out of the window. And let`s be clear about what was foundin the room. Two
guns -- two pellet guns were found in the room.
GERAGOS: Pellet guns.
BANFIELD: Apparently, Daniel was an exterminator and these were pellet guns used in the job of extermination, so it is entirely possible.
GERAGOS: Correct.
BANFIELD: . that these were the gunssomebody reported seeing out thewindow, so as the police are arriving, thisis what`s in their head that
there are these weapons that have been spotted in this room.
Also I want to be clear here, Mark, there was alcohol involved as well. I believe it was rum that was found in the room. There was a man and.
GERAGOS: Right.
BANFIELD: . a woman who had come back and had drinks with him. The man had left. The woman was leaving at the beginning of the video. If you`re
wondering who the woman is walking out when you see the video at first, let`s just play that again. The woman,she does not sort of have to respond
to the same command. She seems to walk and she`s somewhat surprised as she comes out.
Daniel drops to his knees right away. Continue this video, I just want to ask our producers to continue the video and keep youreyes on his right hand
as he crawls towards the officer so that everybody can get the chain of events. And Mark, as we`re watching it.
GERAGOS: But Ashleigh.
BANFIELD: Let me know about the alcohol involved.
GERAGOS: I was just going to tell you one thing. See her.
BANFIELD: Well, first of all, let me get this.
(CROSSTALK)
GERAGOS: Yes, she was.
BANFIELD: Blood alcohol level.
GERAGOS: Okay.
BANFIELD: What were the results of that?
GERAGOS: 0.26.
BANFIELD: 0.26. Okay. I know we have a looped video here. Can we go to the other video where we can actually see Mr. Shaver crawl -- we don`t have
it unfortunately.I was hoping to show everybody because it`s very significant what the officer is seeing and if you only see it one time,
it`s difficult to see what his right hand, he is reaching back. Is it true or do we just surmisethat he is reaching to pull up.
GERAGOS: He is reaching to pull up his pantsbecause they`re telling him to hold up his arms and crawl all at the same time and by the way, if they
really thought there was a threat there, then why is the woman coming out and they basically take her into custody. She`s walking. You`ll notice
she`s holding stuff. He`s not holding anything. He`s barefoot with basketball shorts on.
BANFIELD: Let`s play that video I was talking about.
GERAGOS: . and a t-shirt.
BANFIELD: I understand what you`re saying, Mark, but I want to make sure I give the officerdue as well.
GERAGOS: The officer, he doesn`t have any due.
BANFIELD: Can we just roll the video that I was talking about.
GERAGOS: I mean, literally, Ashleigh.
BANFIELD: . so our viewers can see the right hand. Okay, now Mark if you`ve got a return video.
GERAGOS: Right, Ashleigh.
BANFIELD: . I want you have to watch it the same time and I want to draw the viewers` attention to his right hand. This is what the officer is
seeing. He doesn`t know if there`s aweapon in the waistband, but officers have been trained if someone goes to the waistband after giving these
strident commands, you have a split second to react.
GERAGOS: Ashleigh.
BANFIELD: it`s important we say that, Mark. Go ahead.
GERAGOS: Now, Ashleigh, let me just -- let me point out something. The officers have him on the ground. He`s lying face down. His lands are on the
ground. Take him into custody. Period.
Giving him all these orders likesome sort of perverse game of Twister is not police training. It`s police BS after the fact totry to justify a bad
shooting. Period. This isn`t police training.
BANFIELD: Let me bring in Darrin Porcher who is a retired NYPD lieutenant and a criminal justice expert as well. You do the training. You tell cops
what to look for and they do have a split second.
In this particular instance, didthey give enough due to what theman was doing? He was following every command, begging for his life. He was crying.
They asked him to crawl. His pants were coming down. Did they do the right thing?
DARRIN PORCHER, RETIRED NYPD LIEUTENANT: Well, we have a saying. I was a lieutenant in the Internal Affairs Bureau in the NYPD. We have a saying,
lawful, but awful.
Now, it appears use of force is always ugly, however the officer gave numerous commands. One of the commands that the officer gave you know, was
look, even if you put your hands behind your head and you fall to the floor, you fall to the floor. I need to see your hands.
When the individual`s hand wentto the waistband. That made the officer believe there was a possibility of him being injured. Remember why that
officer responded? That officer responded because they got the call of a man with a gunpointing it out of a window. This is a very dangerous
situation. A split second can determine if you live or you die.
BANFIELD: You know, since you said that, I actually want to jump out of this particular video for a moment because I am not seeing the video that I
really wantedto see and that`s that right hand going back to pull up his pants. Unfortunately, we`re not showing it you, but I am going to show you
another one that will give you the indication of how difficult it is for these officers who show up on a scene and try to get someone to answer
their commands.
The Quincy Smith South Carolina officer, do we have that video? Do we have the Quincy Smith video from South Carolina? I am just asking my producers
if we can show another incident where an officer begged for a guy to take his hands out of his pocket and he literally had one second to react. Have
a look.
(VIDEOCLIP BEGINS)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Stop right there.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Take your hands out of your pocket. Take your hands out of your pocket. Take your hands out of your pocket. Shots fired.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Dispatch Echo 7, I`m hit. I`m hit. I`m hit in my neck some place.
(VIDEOCLIP ENDS)
BANFIELD: So there you go. In a heartbeat, it can change. Is that the kind of thing.
PORCHER: A split second, the dynamic changes.
BANFIELD: Are these the videos that police officers see before they go on to ascene like this or do they also see somebody accidentally reaching to
pull up their pants? Are they given both scenarios on a regular basis?
PORCHER: Officers go through a training and there is a sustainment twice a year in terms of use of force. We look at the situation, it was a split
second that determined if the officer is in the clear or if they were in danger. The officer gave specific commands, "Do not move your hands. If you
feel like you`re losing your balance, fall to the floor. Show me your hands the whole way through."
And this individual reached and I think that it was unfortunate, but this individual reached to the waistband which is an area that on numerous
occasions, suspects have reached to display weapons and that`s what officer used.
You just saw a video a second ago, it`s a split second. It happens like that. Lawful, but awful.
BANFIELD: And actually, in that South Carolina.
PORCHER: . use of force is always ugly.
BANFIELD: That South Carolina video, it was less than a half a second that that man pulled that gun out of his pocket and shot at that officer.
PORCHER: And remember, why he responded.
BANFIELD: But he hit that officer. He hit that officer. The officer hit the ground. That officer ended up saying, "I`mhit. I`m shot. Tell my family
I love them."
I mean, to me, that`s really devastating stuff. The fact that officer survived is remarkable. I want to play MichaelPiccaretta. He is the
defense attorney for the officer in this particular shootingand this is what he had to say about what his client, the police officer who made those
-- who shot those fatal bullets hadto say, have a look.
(VIDEOCLIP BEGINS)
MICHAEL PICCARETTA, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: When movements were made thatare consistent with drawing a weapon, you have one second to make up your mind
and you make up your mind the wrong way, people get hurt.
(VIDEOCLIP ENDS)
BANFIELD: So the defendant in this case, Defendant Philip Brailsford who was acquitted in these murder charges, second degree murder.
This is going to be a little tricky. You`ll hear his voice. He was interrogated after the shooting and he had a couple of things to say about
where his head space was at that time. Have a listen.
(VIDEOCLIP BEGINS)
BRAILSFORD: It is terrifying. It happened so fast. He slid one hand, his left hand out and then like turned to the side and reached back with his
right hand where I couldn`t see it. I fired my weapon five times.
(VIDEOCLIP ENDS)
BANFIELD: I want to bring in defense attorney at CNN and HLN legal analyst, Joey Jackson. He is joining Darrin Porcher and me as well. Joey,
I know how you feel about this one, but at the same time, you saw that incident in South Carolina wherethings go sideways in a split second and
I`m wondering if that mitigates your feeling?
I mean, I know you feel the same way that Mark Geragos feels.
JOEY JACKSON, DEFENSE ATTORNEY AND HLN LEGAL ANALYST: Yes.
BANFIELD: Does that mitigate things when you see how the officer fight can turn out.
JACKSON: Not at all. Let`s be clear, I hate to pull the father card, but you know this very well. My father was a police officer. I`m a defense
attorney. I lived with what he had to go through. I get it. I understand it. To put this next to another incident, I don`t think is even fair
because you have to judge every case on independent basis.
You want to talk about split second. What split second are we talkingabout? I see an awful lot of time in which he gives commands, every one of those
commands were complied with. This person was scared to death. If you want to talk about policeconduct or misconduct, how aboutgiving him an
opportunity to live where when you see his hands, full frontal, when you see him complying, when you have a SWAT team go over there and lawfully
arrest him.
Don`t make up an excuse to suggest, "Oh, a split second hegrabbed at something, therefore, I had to shoot him."This officer appeared to me,
based on demeanor, based upon his comportment, based upon the entirety of his tone that he waswilling, able and ready to execute someone and that`s
exactly what he did. I`m sorry. I attempt to be objective. I saw this for the first time, Saturday when I looking through Twitter and my feelings
have not changed and I looked at it over and over andover again.
Police work on a use of force continuum, do they not, Dr. Porcher? And on that use of force continuum, it`s about interpersonal communication. "Stop,
don`t move. It will cost your life."This is the most outrageous display and the worst miscarriage ofjustice I`ve seen in a long time. Period.
BANFIELD: As we have Darrin on and Joey on representing that side, I want you to have the last word, Darrin.
PORCHER: Well, I understand where he`s coming from as a defense attorney, but I`m speaking from the perspective of not just as a practitioner. I
have in many instances been in these situations where I felt my life was on the line. I`ve had a split second to react.
Your heart feels like it`s goingto explode out of your chest when you get that call for someone that has a gun and once you get to thescene that
individual is there and they`re not abiding by your commands. It puts you in a very precarioussituation.
JACKSON: Those things he abide by. What didn`t he abide by? He abided with everything.
PORCHER: He specifically told -- he specifically told.
JACKSON: And he`s complying.
PORCHER: .. Show me your hands at all times.
JACKSON: He`s showing him his hands right there, what did he do?
PORCHER: This is the thing. He specifically said, "If you`re going to fall to the floor, fall to the floor. Do not move your hands."
JACKSON: And that gives you a basis to execute someone? ISIS, okay.
PORCHER: I don`t believe it was an execution.
JACKSON: Okay, it was an execution. There were a number of things that could have been done differently. They were not. This was violative of
police procedure and unfortunately, a person is dead because of his horrific conduct. This is outrageous.
PORCHER: In hindsight, it`s all.
JACKSON: It`s not hindsight. The guy`s hands were right here.
(CROSSTALK)
JACKSON: His hands were up there. What else do you want? It was full compliance.
BANFIELD: You know what, this debate will continue in the litigation of the civil case.
JACKSON: I hope so.
BANFIELD: I think we`re all going to come back and see what changes when that goes before a different kind of jury. I appreciate both of you and
your passion. Darrin, thank you. Joey, you`re going to stick around and my thanks to Mark Geragos as well.
Confessed serial killer, Todd Kohlheppsitting in a South Carolina prison sends a letter to a localnewspaper and in it, he is bragging there are
plenty more victims out there and he`s complaining the FBI doesn`t careabout them.
BANFIELD: We thought Todd Kohlheppwas done and gone. That revolting South Carolina serial killer who confessed to killing seven people before being
locked away for seven lifetimes. But apparently, seven isn`t cutting it for Todd`s legacy. Either that or he is very, very bored in his new career
as a bland inmate because now, behind bars, Kohlhepp is bragging that he`s killed even more people and he is fueling his claims in an eight-page
letter to the local paper.
The person who could hold the clues as to whether his claims are true could be the woman that he let live. The woman he chained in a storage container
for over two months, the woman he raped every single day before officers came to her rescue.
(VIDEOCLIP BEGINS)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Watch out, don`t move. I got it. What`s (inaudible).
(CROSSTALK)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Sheriff`s Office.
(CROSSTALK)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Are you okay? Do you have any weapons? Let me through, okay? What`s your name? What`s your name name?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (Inaudible).
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Just a girl.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Just a girl, just a girl. How are you honey?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Where`s the bolt cutter? This is our victim.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He`s a paramedic.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Okay, we`re going to get you out there, okay? Just hang loose for me. Any guys -- I need handcuff keys here.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Handcuff key.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I don`t have them right.
UNIDENTIFED MALE: Right here.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Hold up. Don`t slump back.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Hold on.
(CROSSTALK)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Let me see your (inaudible).
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You`re going to need to put your hands up (inaudible).
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You`re okay. We`re here, okay?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes, sir.
(CROSSTALK)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Slide on over.
(CROSSTALK)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We`ll get the rest of it here. Let`s get her out of here.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We`re getting bold cutters, honey, don`t.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You`ve got pictures of the cuts?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes, hold them.
(CROSSTALK)
UNIDENTIFED MALE: Both feet.
KALA BROWN, VICTIM: Just one.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Let me see.
BROWN: Okay, to a chain to the wall and my neck is attached to the wall up here.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Okay, all right. Okay, we`ll get you out, sweetheart? Okay?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You`ve had handcuffs here.
(CROSSTALK)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Bolt cutters.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Just hit the chain up there loose. No, just not at her hand, (Brian), we`ll get it off.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We`ll get it off. We`ll cut it right here.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Do you know where your buddy is?
BROWN: (Inaudible).
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes.
BROWN: He shot him.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He shot him?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Who did?
BROWN: Todd Kohlhepp shot Charlie Carver three times in the chest, wrapped him in a blue tarp, put him in the bucket of the tractor, locked me down
here and I never seen him again. He says he`s dead and buried.
(VIDEOCLIP ENDS)
BANFIELD: That was Kala Brown who was forced to endure several weeks with her captor and what bragged incessantly about back then sounds quite a bit
like what he`s telling the paper now.
(VIDEOCLIP BEGINS)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Did he ever tell you how many people he`s killed out there?
BROWN: Story-wise, he told me about four. He also told me that a few years back that he walked into a bike shop in Anderson and shot four people
and left and they never found out who did it. He liked to brag that he was a serial killer and a mass murderer. He said he was going to kill more
people because he had dreams of this body count being three digits. He said right now, it`s still in the high two digits."
(VIDEOCLIP ENDS)
BANFIELD: Now, he is telling the Spartanburg Herald Journal, his number is more than seven. He says, "I tried to tell investigators and I did tell the
FBI, but it was blown off. It`s not an addition problem,"he says, ". it`s a multiplication problem."
Then these are his words. "Leaves the state. Leaves the country. Thank you private pilot`s license."
Tonight, the FBI is not commenting because this is a pending investigation.
Spartanburg Herald Journal reporter Daniel Gross has been responding with the convicted killer. He joins me now live. Daniel, these letters sound
harrowing and this last oneis the last in the series of four.
Walk me through the things he`s been saying all the way up to these latest claims.
DANIEL GROSS, REPORTER, SPARTANBURG HERALD: Yes, so while this was first time that we`ve really disclosed thathe has been writing letters to me and
we thought this tidbit about him saying that there are more had the news value and was newsworthy to us which told us to go ahead and publish this,
but until then, it was just a lot of background information. You know, a lot of his thoughts about his past, about some of the known cases, about
his prison life.
But up until then, no real disclosureabout additional cases and we chose you know, not to really publicize or promote any of that because based on
all of that background knowledge and background information that he`s already sent us, we just didn`t feel it was newsworthy up until this latest
revelation here.
BANFIELD: And what are your senses, Daniel as a reporter who had -- you`ve got the benefit of the background of communication, the rest of us are sort
of hearing these claims from truly a man who is a bloviator, who fancies himself a much bigger deal than he is or ever, ever has been, but where
worthy to use to you, I think at this point I really don`tsee reason to give numbers or locations.
Does it seem to you, Daniel that he`s just bloviating yet again, or do you think there`s a shred or a kernel of truth?
GROSS: So with every letter we`ve received,I`ve always taken it with a grain of salt because obviously, you know, given his background, you know,
is it a manipulation game? Is he playingus? Or is he being truthful? It`s really hard to say, but youknow, since the beginning since we learned
about Kohlhepp initially, across the board, most folks following the case, families of some of his known victims, they`ve all said that they believe
there are more victims as well.
And as you know, you know, he has had some history in various states and we know that and so there`s definitely other police agencies out there not
just here in South Carolina, but across the country that are taking it seriously, not that I don`t -- I am not aware that theyknow of any specific
cases rightnow that he is tied to that we don`t know of already, but certainly, you know, the authorities, even here locally are taking a hard
look at it. Whether it`s truthful or not, they`re taking it seriously and keeping the channels open to try and gain some more understanding in the
hopes that maybe they are something -- some other answers outthere that can be solved.
BANFIELD: He seems to fancy himself a bit of an expert in law enforcement too just from some of the interrogation tapes that we saw earlier. In
fact, I want to play one of these interrogation moments where Todd Kohlheppis undergoing the interrogation and puts himself on even playing
field the investigating officers who are sitting across the table, almost like a buddy-buddy atmosphere like, "You guys, we all know how this
works."
It`s remarkable to see this delusion of grandeur that this petty sick rapist murder seems to think of himself. Have a look -- just so we get the
essence of what this guy`s personality is like.
(VIDEOCLIP BEGINS)
TODD KOHLHEPP, DETAINED PRISONER: That was one big building. I cleared it under 30 seconds.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You what now?
KOHLHEPP: I cleared that building in under 30 seconds. You guys would have been proud. I`m sorry, but you guys would have been proud.
(VIDEOCLIP ENDS)
BANFIELD: You would have been proud. I want to bring in some of the folks who had to endure the investigation, Sheriff Chuck Wright with the
Spartanburg County Sheriff`s Office, he joins me live as well.
Sheriff, do you take any of these claims that are being made in Kohlhepp`s letters seriously?
CHUCK WRIGHT, SHERIFF SPARTANBURG COUNTY: Well, I don`t have the luxury of not taking them seriously, but at this point, I mean all of these -- he
never reached out to us. He reached out to Mr. Gross at the Herald Journal. It seems to me, he says he did that first and that he basically wants some
more attention.
Now, I`m going to take him serious until I can prove otherwise, obviously, but I`ve always said this, it`s not fair that the Coxies, the the Carvers,
the Guys, the Lucases and the Sherberts, when they mention those names, his name is tied toit because he`s the one who killed them and you know, I wish
he wouldn`t get all this media attention until he shows us some -- or gives us some specifics or you know, even if you wants to work out some type of a
deal, you know, at least we would have something togo on, but he`s basically just talking at this point.
BANFIELD: Well, let me ask you a little bit about a couple of those aspects. Number one, the letters themselves. You`re right that they were
written to Daniel Gross, not to the police, but have you inquired as to whether you can take a look at those letters. Are you interested in taking
a look at Daniel`s letters?
WRIGHT: Yes, Mr. Gross provided me with a copy all of his letters less than two hours ago and I haven`t had a chance to sit down and read them.
We`re going to call a meeting tomorrow with our investigators and we`re going to pour over them and see if this is just somebody that
wantsattention or what have you, but don`t have the luxury of not taking it seriously because if there`s another victim out there, and we do blow him
off, we`ve never blown him off by the way. We`ve called Arizona, the FBI and some other locations where he`s made mention that this -- he might be
responsible for some more and I just weren`t be able to tie it together, you know, as of yet.
You know, trying to get more specifics from him obviously, but we have over a hundred people just from our department on that crime scene searching
every aspect of the woods, digging, cadaver dogs, I mean, we did everything that we had our abilities.
BANFIELD: Sheriff, I only have a couple of seconds left, but I do want to ask you about this notion that he says, "I had a pilot`s license. I could
leave the country. I could leave the state."Did you ever look at his logs to see if maybe there were unsolved cases to the places where he flew?
WRIGHT: Sure did and we also turned that overto the FBI because they have a lot more reach than we do on that aspect of it.
BANFIELD: Well, the best of luck to you and I apologize, I`m sorry, you`re going have toput yourself back in that man`s ugliness whether it`s
bloviating or not. He is truly a despicable human being who I am sure is very uncomfortable and very bored with his environ.
So sorry that it`s going to take up your time and I hope it doesn`t pan out for all of those involved. Sheriff, thanks for being with us. I appreciate
it.
WRIGHT: Yes, (inaudible), thank you.
BANFIELD: You too and my thanks to Daniel Gross as well with the Spartanburg Herald Journal.
We`re finding out some brand new details tonight about the suspect who was blamedfor an explosion in the New York City bus terminal. Five people were
hurt in addition to the suspect who police say detonated a pipe bombthat he was wearing in the station near Times Square right during the busy morning
commute.
Investigators also say he had another explosive device on him that did not go off and this is a brand new image of the 27-year-oldjust moments after
the attack and this is quite tellingif you look at some of the details. Look closely at where you think possibly the pipe bomb may have been
strapped. You can certainly see some evidence there.
The investigator say, "The man you`re looking at right there, legally here."A legal resident. He came here from Bangladesh a number of years ago.
Legal status. The whole nine yards. A law enforcement officer says to CNN, "He pledged his allegiance to ISIS while talking to investigators. He also
admitted to making the bomb last week at his apartment in Brooklyn."
Officers say he was motivated byrecent Israeli actions in Gaza.
A Michigan mother falls from the window of her mansion and she`s found dead on the patio outside. At first, the police thought it was just an accident
and then this young manenters the picture because the forensics don`t quite match up.
This is her son who is standing trial for this and the big question is who is the shadowy figure captured on surveillance just before she fell?
BANFIELD: We`ve told you about her before, a beautifulMichigan mother who fell out of her window of her mansion this summer and was found dead on the
patio below. Her daughter was the one to make 911 call. Her son was right by her side when the first responders arrived, but the way Nada
Huraniehlanded on the groundand the injuries that Nada sustained, they certainly do have some people saying this was no accident.
(VIDEOCLIP BEGINS)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Someone to fall from 20 feet to 25 feet, landingon their back and hitting their head on paver bricks, I would have expected to
see blood.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We started noticing that the positioning of her body was not what you would expect from someone falling out of a window.
(VIDEOCLIP ENDS)
BANFIELD: And that`s why Nada`s death is now being charged as Nada`s murder because a closer look at her fall is showing signs that she in fact
was smothered before she came flying out of that second storey window.
(VIDEOCLIP BEGINS)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It could be something soft. It could be a pillow. It could be a blanket.
(VIDEOCLIP ENDS)
BANFIELD: On trial for killing is this young man. Nada`s 16-year-old sonwho reportedly said he knew nothing until his sister found the body.
With me now, Oakland press reporter, Aileen Wingblad. She joins me from Detroit. But he changed his story, Aileen, didn`t he? He changed his
story once he wastold guess what, there`s video. Take it from there.
AILEEN WINGBLAD, PRESS REPORTER, OAKLAND: Well, according to the testimony from the detective sergeant, he initially did say that he hadn`t seen his
mother since the night before. Once they told him about some video they had captured from thehome, and that there was an indication there was someone
in the room based on shadows that the video picked up, he admittedaccording to testimony that he was indeed in the room with his mother when she went
out the window. And he had (inaudible) while cleaning the window.
BANFIELD: So there`s a lot of sort of mystery to this video and we don`t know what it looks likeyet because they`re in the preliminaries heading
towards this trial for first degree murder. But there are some descriptions about a mysterious figure doing mysterious things in that windowand then
slightly out of that window. Can you characterize for me whatthey`ve said in these preliminary hearings in describing what the video shows?
WINGBLAD: Well, yes, of course. The detective sergeant who described the video -- now this hasn`t been shown to anyone except you know, the
attorneys and the judge was shown the video last Friday, but it`s based on shadows that the video picked up of the lawn right below the window where
the body was dropped from.
And according to the testimony that there were shadows in and out. It appeared that someone was dragging and struggling with a kind of a bulky
object and that this bulky object was hoisted over the window ledge and that there were two -- it looked like two dangling arms and that it was
flipped over the ledge of the window.
BANFIELD: And the person looks out the window and then disappears and then that person comes back and appears to then be putting a ladder, after the
body goes out the window. This shadowy figure putting a ladder in front of the window and of course, I guess as the detectives arrive, they found a
small stepladder and a bottle of glass cleaner, almost as though the scene was staged. Is that where they`re heading with this is that the allegation
is this young mansmothered his mother, hoisted this deadweight up and out the window, the arms are dangling out the window. She`s then sent out
flying and then he stages the scene with a ladder and glass cleaner to say, "Mom wascleaning the window and something terrible must have happened."Is
that what they are saying?
WINGBLAD: That`s surely what it appears that they`re building the case onand another interesting that item oneof the detectives brought up was
that itwas Tilexthat was found rather than a window cleaner which was quite odd, and yes, they said the shadow -- there is a shadow that appears as if
someoneleft the room and came back and could be pushing a ladder near the window and that ladder was found about an inch away from the window.
BANFIELD: Tilex, Tilex was found.
WINGBLAD: Yes.
BANFIELD: Yes, okay, I`m going be very embarrassing here because I don`t do a lot of cleaning with Tilex, so I am looking at it online and
effectively is this not something you would use to clean a window? Can they really say that this is just not glass cleaner and anyone worth your
salt would know that?
WINGBLAD: Well, that`s certainly what the testimony wasand you know Tilex typically is a bleach based product and not used to clean a window.
BANFIELD: Grout cleaner, tile cleaner, mold remover. That`s pretty interesting stuff. Hold that thought for a minute. I want to bring in
Joseph Scott Morgan if I can, he`s a certified death investigator and a professor of forensics at Jacksonville State University. He joins me live
from Atlanta. Okay, Joe, there are a lot of really interesting forensics moments that are coming up in this case.
For starters, Nada was found faceup on that patioand her feet were pointed away from the home. So you take me as a death investigator to somebody who
accidentally slips off a ladder while using Tilex to clean a window and falls two-storeys. Would you fall that way? Would you struggle as you fell?
Would you land in a different kind of way than if you were say, suffocated and deadweight?
JOSEPH SCOTT MORGAN, PROFESSOR OF FORENSICS, JACKSONVILLE STATE UNIVERSITY: Yes. Thanks for having me, Ashleigh. Yes, actually you would and again,
this is in fact deadweight that we`re talking about here where the subject has no control over their momentum or their falling or the tension in their
body. If anyone out there has ever tried to carry a person that is still conscious, it`s much easier to carry a person like this than it is say for
instance, somebody that is unconscious that is not helping you that`s why they refer to it as deadweight.
In this particular case, she hadno ability apparently to kind of brace herself in any way, "Oh my gosh, a fall is coming," so she lands in this
kind of odd contorted way, at least from appearances and what the police are saying. We haven`t seen the window. We haven`t -- I haven`t seen the
area around here, but it leaves speculation to say that it made alarm bells go off in theirhead.
BANFIELD: That didn`t sound good either. Joe, I`ve got to leave it there but you know, the investigators also said no blood or bleeding and if that
heart was still pumping when shelanded on the ground, there would be plenty of blood. Joe, you`ve have got to come back another time. We are going to
continue to follow this story. It is an intriguing oneand it is only just the beginning.
An officer has only seconds to react because the call came in that a baby was not breathing and there is the baby. And listen, when you see this
video, you`re going to know what an angel on earth looks like.
A Savannah, Georgia police officer is being hailed a hero after he raced to the scene in response to a call about an infant who wasn`t breathing.
(VIDEOCLIP BEGINS)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Savannah-Chatham 911, what is your emergency?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We need an ambulance. We need an ambulance.My ma`s baby has stopped breathing. Newborn. Please get someone quick.
(VIDEOCLIP ENDS)
BANFIELD: Officer William Eng`s body cam captured thisscene as he ran up three flightsof stairs and then performed chest compressions on this
newborn baby girl until she started breathing again. Yes, the video is silent, but youdo not need to hear the audio toknow exactly what that mom
was going through, what that mom was feeling.
Just a couple days later, Officer Enggot another chance to hold baby Bella. Here it is. Look at that. These circumstances, of coursemuch, much better
with her beaming mother looking on and it`s important to bring in Joey Jackson on this one because, again, I`m going to sayit, often and loud,
your dad was a police officer.These are moments that are so close to you.
JACKSON: It`s a wonderful thing to seeand this is what policing is allabout. They go and they assist where they can, when they can and how
they can. Running up buildings, running into danger. Don`t look at your immigration status. Could careless if you`re a Democrat or Republican.
What religion are you? When did you come here? They just do the right thing andthat picture, Ashleigh, says it all.
BANFIELD: Worth a thousand words, isn`t it? Officer Eng, you`re a hero. An angel on earth, they say, right at Christmastime.
JACKSON: Love that, Ashleigh. Love it.
BANFIELD: This other story certainly have touched us, a Tennessee boy also touching thehearts of millions and millions of people with his heartfelt
straight talk about what it feels like to be bullied.
(VIDEOCLIP BEGINS)
KEATON JONES, VICTIM: Just out of curiosity, why dothey bully? What`s the point of it? What joy in taking innocent people and finding a way to be
mean to them? It`s not okay.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: What do they say to you?
JONES: How they -- they make fun of my nose, they call me ugly. They say I have no friends.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: How does that make you feel?
JONES: Why do they do it to me and I`m sure that they do it to the people because it`s not okay. People are different. Don`t need to be criticized
about it. It`s not their fault.
(VIDEOCLIP ENDS)
BANFIELD: Keaton Jones` mom posted this video on Facebook after she picked him up from school on Friday. This plea that Keaton have made has now been
seen by at least 21 different -- 21 million different views. Celebrities like Chris Evans -Captain America, Mark Hammel -- Luke Skywalker, Katy
Perry and Ryan Seacrestand Enrique Iglesias and that`s just a couple. All of these famous people. Hollywood really coming out and rallying around
Keaton. School will be interesting goingon from here.
I`ve got one more thing here for you tonight as Orlando Police honor Lieutenant Debra Clayton nearly one year after she was brutally gunned down
in a Walmart parking lot. This is what it`s going to look like when an officer does not die in vain.
We have one more thing for you tonight, Debra Clayton, the Orlando Police Department, honored that lieutenant last week bestowing on her the word of
valor and a purple heart for her bravery when she confronted MarkeithLoyd in a Walmart parking lot. Her ultimate sacrifice helped them track down
and arrest that suspected murderer.
Thank you so much for watching everyone. We`re going to be back here tomorrow night six o`clock Eastern Time for Crime and Justice. How It
Really Happened with Hill Harper begins right now.
END
END
