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Crime and Justice With Ashleigh Banfield

Tricky Lawsuit; Magician David Copperfield Took The Stand; Aired 6- 8p ET

Aired April 24, 2018 - 18:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[18:00:00] (JOINED IN PROGRESS)

ASHLEIGH BANFIELD, HOST, HLN CRIME AND JUSTICE: Good evening, everyone, I`m Ashleigh Banfield. Welcome to "Crime and Justice." You knew David

Copperfield had to cough up some of the secrets to explain his illusion was safe, but now more people are coming forward saying, they got injured in

his act too, and it could very well change the mega million dollar business of magic. Justin Freiman is talking the new plaint.

JUSTIN FREIMAN, SR. PRODUCER, HLN CNN: That is right. The plaintiff`s attorney saying he is got two more people that had come forward, saying

they were also injured during this illusion. But will they have to take the stand? I will tell you, will take the stand and it is on it right now.

David Copperfield himself. Giving away some of the secrets to his big illusion, but I don`t have to give away my secrets.

(LAUGHTER)

BANFIELD: I think there`s more to his secret that might come out on the stand. I am going to check on you in a bit. Thank you, Justin.

Also ahead tonight, the man with the mustache, who had to be tased ten times before he eventually was taken off a plane to Chicago. Mouthing off

the whole way. Michael Christian has been following this one. And the video, I think it is fairly safe, it`s insane?

MICHAEL CHRISTIAN, SENIOR FIELD PRODUCER, HLN: Absolutely right, Ashleigh. This guy is every airline passenger`s worst nightmare. He allegedly

fondled another passenger, taunted police, made racist comments. And even when they get him off the plane, it`s not over and we have it all on

videotape.

BANFIELD: I still can`t believe, you can see the tased going off and it`s having no effect on him. All right, Michael I will check on you in a

moment.

Also, a young lady is put on curfew. Doesn`t sound so bad until you learn that it is a former high school cheerleader, who is accused of killing and

burying her own new born baby. How is regular house arrest not good enough for someone who is about to go on trial for murder. We are going to find

out about how that happened as well.

First to our top story, the allegations against David Copperfield`s magic act. They are only heating up, and that heat could end up putting a chill

on audiences everywhere. Especially the kind of show that asks you -- if you want to be part of it, if you want to come up on stage. Because

Copperfield is one of the kings of a mega million dollar industry. And what`s happening to him in Vegas probably won`t stay in Vegas.

A man who claims he was injured during Copperfield`s disappearing act now seems to have some friends. Two other people who say they were also hurt

during his show. Well, Copperfield`s team insists that man that you saw in the bed is just one man among 96,000 or so people who all had been able to

help make the magic happen and somehow walk away from the illusion unscathed.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: In any location in the world that the illusion has been performed, any location, to your knowledge, because that is all I can ask

you, has anyone ever fallen during the run-around?

DAVID COPPERFIELD, MAGICIAN: Not to my knowledge. Except for him.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BANFIELD: Ha, but that man, Mr. Cox, has an attorney. And that attorney has seemingly been rounding up some other people, other people who are

willing to talk out loud, maybe even in a courtroom. And he is made a little announcement that those people may just testify. And that got David

Copperfield`s defense team with their back up, asking for a mistrial. All the while, the magician still had to get back on the stand and keep on

answering those safety questions about the stage.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Is it important to you to make sure they`re safe?

COPPERFIELD: Yes.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BANFIELD: That was an easy question. A yes or no. But they aren`t all that easy. With me now is Rachel Stockman, she is the editor-in-chief at

Law and Crime Network, Alexander Boyce, a feature performer with Monday Night Magic, of the longest running of Broadway magic show in New York and

defense attorney, Brian Claypool is also joining us from Los Angeles.

Rachel, I am going to begin with you. I said the yes or no answers are the easy ones, sometimes they are and sometimes they aren`t. But they don`t

really kind of getting to the nitty gritty, that there may be other people.

That core argument, oh it is just one guy for god`s sake, maybe there are more, will they see the light of day?

RACHEL STOCKMAN, EDITOR-IN-CHIEF, LAW AND CRIME NETWORK: Well, that is what the plaintiff`s attorneys are trying to nail David Copperfield on.

Because David Copperfield has said over and over on the stand that he didn`t know about anyone else. Thousands of people have gone through this

magic show and no one was ever hurt.

Well, as you mentioned, two more women have come forward saying they were injured during this magic show. And the plaintiff`s attorneys want to put

them on the stand and plan to put them on the stand.

BANFIELD: They can? They can do that? Just sort of like comparing mason thing, midway through the trial. A-ha, we found two more people!

STOCKMAN: Well, they`re certainly going to fight tooth and nail to do that.

BANFIELD: So it`s not a given yet.

STOCKMAN: It`s not a given yet. But there -- and Copperfield attorneys are going to try to keep them off the stand, of course. But we`ll see what

happens here.

[18:05:00] BANFIELD: Meantime, Alexander is in the middle of a -- it is like a ping-pong match. Oh my god, what is going to happen and then what

if you are watching this case, as a magician, you make your money, you make your living by keeping secrets and making sure that you can still get

people to come up on stage, and things like this might put a chill on that. Are you worried about this case?

ALEXANDER BOYCE, FEATURED PERFORMER, MONDAY NIGHT MAGIC: No, I`m not. I don`t have any concern about it. I think that magic has a rich history and

that this is the first incident I`ve ever heard of anything like this. And I don`t think that people will be affected by this.

BANFIELD: But that is the key. You said it`s the first. What if this guy prevails against David Copperfield, and all of a sudden David Copperfield

and every other production company and magicians around the country are starting to realize, you mean we could be sued for millions?

BOYCE: Well, I mean, I think that is a concern in developing any show. And Copperfield`s show is another pinnacle of all Las Vegas magic shows.

BANFIELD: How many people do you bring up on stage during your act?

BOYCE: Well, it depends on the evening, but you know, I am often bringing up four or five people. But every magician, every performer takes this

into consideration, especially now with immersive theater in New York City. It`s beyond magic. You know, this case does mean something beyond magic

even. But I think it is -- people will still have the desire to be a part of an amazing experience.

BANFIELD: I ask you that, because there`s an issue that is going on in this courtroom. And I think a lot of people didn`t realize this at first,

that David himself is being sued, not just the production company, not just the MGM, you know the big deep pocketed entities, David himself is being

sued. And apparently he didn`t really even know it. At least that is what he said on the stand. Have a listen to that question and how he answered

it.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Do you know that you are being sued personally in this case, and that you are a defendant? Do you know that?

COPPERFIELD: I don`t. No, I don`t know that.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BANFIELD: So I find that hard to believe. Because he is got high-priced attorneys. MGM has high priced attorneys. They had to have gone over some

of the kinds of questions that he would be facing on the stand. Especially what the lawsuit -- if you read the lawsuit, which you can, its public

record.

STOCKMAN: It names him right on the lawsuit, so, it is quite shocking that this man, he didn`t know that.

BANFIELD: Do you think that maybe, Rachel, they didn`t think this was very serious and that they`d be dispensing with it pretty quickly?

STOCKMAN: Absolutely. These cases settle so often. I can only imagine they were hoping before this actually went to trial that they would be able

to settle this among the parties, but they weren`t.

BANFIELD: Well, I`ll tell you one thing, either David Copperfield has a mind unlike mine, in terms of being able to remember every step of every

named safety mechanism that they put in place, or they coached him. Because he was asked about the seven different safety assessments that

happen during the show, and he was able to answer perfectly. Or do you think it`s perfect? Have a listen to how he managed that question.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

COPPERFIELD: First, the backstage staff watches them walk from their seats up to them on the sidewalk. That is number one. Number two, as they`re

speaking to them, telling them about the possibility of running up the stairs, to the stage, which intentionally has no banister, there are people

there in case something goes wrong, but there`s not a banister to see, how they navigate stairs without a hand rail. We line up the people and have

them change places, reorder them on stage.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And what`s the fifth.

COPPERFIELD: What do you call it?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The walk-around.

COPPERFIELD: The walk-around. The next is, they walk up another set of stairs to the platform. Seven is, as they take their seat, to get between

the chairs and so forth, to go around the corner, see how they, you know, - - I`ve never seen them sit up and down ever before.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BANFIELD: All that is fascinating. Except for the fact that I keep waiting for them to get to the nitty gritty part of the stuff we don`t

know. Last week, as he was on the stand, it became painfully evident, and I`m sorry if you believe in Easter bunnies and Santa Claus`s and all the

rest, but the people don`t actually disappear, they actually end up going through a tunnel. OK?

I don`t think that is the secret we all expected was going to be the solution to the magic trick and it wasn`t. There`s still another core

piece of this trick that he is kept secret. That they haven`t clawed away at.

And Brian Claypool, I wonder if you can weigh-in on this. As we are looking at the video, all these people get up on that platform up there,

they have to sit down, and the platform is raised, then curtain goes around it, and then they somehow all disappear, but you don`t see their little

feet pitter pattering off the platform. Somehow they get from that raised platform into the bowels of that theater.

And that, I think for many people, would be the secret. Do you think it`s Jermaine to this case, that they make David Copperfield blow the doors off

every single aspect of this magic trick, especially if it wrecks other magic tricks too?

BRIAN CLAYPOOL, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: That is a great question Ashleigh. I personally think that it`s not the trick that is the center of this

lawsuit. It is simply the condition of the floor and what caused this actual fall.

[18:10:10] So, I don`t think they needed to go into this grave detail about what led up to the actual fall. This glamor and glitz about the actual

trick itself, the magic. It`s not the magic. It`s who controlled that floor where this gentleman fell, was it a dangerous condition, and who

maintained that floor.

BANFIELD: It`s a personal injury case. It is a personal injury case.

CLAYPOOL: Premises liability is what it`s called.

BANFIELD: Hold that, because when I talk about that aspect of give me all your secrets and that could ruin your show, it could ruin your magic, it

could ruin actually it could ruin thing for me, because I still can`t figure out for the life of me, how you do what you do. So I can have a

magician again, without showing me some of the creativities, something you created yourself, something that you poured your heart, your soul, it`s

your secret sauce, you built it, you made it, you own it, and you do not want anyone else to have it. Do you have a trick like that?

BOYCE: I have something. I know, I`d like to steal some money from you, but not your money, because I am a nice guy.

BANFIELD: I do have money.

BOYCE: Oh, sure.

BANFIELD: Because I have been ask before and I didn`t do it last week and I was expecting that I was going to have money taken.

BOYCE: I will give you my money, so that way I can steal it back from you and you don`t feel bad about it. OK?

BANFIELD: OK.

BOYCE: OK. So here, it`s not a lot, but it`s enough to make this fun.

BANFIELD: This isn`t funky money, like all the viewers --

BOYCE: No, no. I want you to check it out.

BANFIELD: All right.

BOYCE: So hold this, the George faces you.

BANFIELD: Which camera can I put it to? Just tell which camera, are you on the close-up? Hold on. All right, there.

BOYCE: Very good.

BANFIELD: It`s a regular one. I will tell you right now.

BOYCE: And follow my instructions.

BANFIELD: With that used smell. OK.

BOYCE: It`s smell like everything else. So fold it in half, once and then once more.

BANFIELD: OK, which camera? And then once more.

BOYCE: Just to make it a little smaller package, a little easier to steal. If that was in your pocket or wallet and I went digging around in there,

that could be a little intrusive. So I`m going to take it from your hand. Keep your right hand like that. There is the one and the 20. Fold your

fingers over.

BANFIELD: They`re absolutely both in there.

BOYCE: They are both in your hand, yes.

BANFIELD: They`re both in there, I swear to you. They are both in there.

BOYCE: Now I`m going to steal that money out, OK? But before I get started, just to demonstrate, open up a little bit and let me get one. OK?

BANFIELD: This isn`t very good.

BOYCE: Now squeeze tight.

BANFIELD: You took the one.

BOYCE: Exactly. Well, that is how I get the first bill. But I am a lot more interested in what you have and what I have.

BANFIELD: OK.

BOYCE: Now, afterwards.

BANFIELD: Because I got the 20 still in there.

BOYCE: Sure.

BANFIELD: OK.

BOYCE: I get a lot of calls if you could still feel the 20 in your hand.

BANFIELD: I do. I`ll wrinkle it in my microphone.

BOYCE: Sure. But you have to pay attention and what you feel and what you see, because in a moment --

BANFIELD: Can you hear it in my microphone? OK, good. All right.

BOYCE: What is going to happen here and there at the same time? And this is that moment.

BANFIELD: Oh, wow. That is nutty.

BOYCE: Now if this is here, I can only imagine what`s in your hand. I even had touch your hand. But when you feel brave enough, go ahead, open

it up and show them what you`ve got.

BANFIELD: Oh, my god. Look, it`s all crinkled.

BOYCE: Yes, you had a death grip on that.

BANFIELD: I did. Did you come up with that?

BOYCE: Well, see, that is actually a piece of magic I am really lucky to have learned from some magician in Las Vegas, a gentleman named Paul Vehill

and another mentor my Johnny Thompson.

BANFIELD: I like that you credit those guys for learning that trick. Because I think a lot of you guys, actually do learned this tricks. I know

that they can be purchased as well. There are industries that create, you know these are intellectual property.

BOYCE: Yes.

BANFIELD: So for you to credit them, it means that their magic is important to you, as David Copperfield`s would be important to others, not

just him. So this case isn`t just about him.

BOYCE: That is right. Yes, it`s a big thing. And you know, David Copperfield has an amazing team working behind him, just like late-night

stand-up comedians have teams of writers behind them. And he`s, you know, just for 40 years had been able to put out an incredible material and this

is just one piece of a vast repertoire of his.

BANFIELD: Really quickly, Rachel, I want to continue the segment after the break, but I do want to know if he has changed his tune. There was a lot

of showmanship, last week, he swaggered past the jury, big old grin. He bobbed his head to music, et cetera. Did that go over well and did

something change today?

STOCKMAN: I thought, I have to say, I saw a little bit of a change. He was a little bit more subdued, just directly answering those questions.

BANFIELD: I wonder if he feels like he is facing the music or someone said something.

STOCKMAN: Yes, you wonder. Especially listening to some of the commentary, maybe us, he reined it in a little bit. But I could see a

notable difference on how he was on the stand.

BANFIELD: I wasn`t critical of it. Actually I think it plays well.

STOCKMAN: Do you?

BANFIELD: Yup, I think juries watch the show in that courtroom. And he is a showman. OK, stand by, you have another awesome trick, right?

BOYCE: Wonderful.

BANFIELD: Is it -- is it one with a bird?

BOYCE: You got something special coming up.

BANFIELD: Does it involved a bird?

BOYCE: It might involve a bird.

BANFIELD: I knew it. OK, so I have a few more questions, I want you to see something else with David Copperfield in a moment, and then Alexander,

may or may not make a bird disappear or reappear. I am not sure --

BOYCE: You`ll find out.

BANFIELD: He is not giving it up. Last week in court, you probably noticed that that demeanor of David Copperfield`s was really obvious,

right?

[18:15:02] There he is bobbing his head to that music, I told you about. He sort of perform on front of the attorneys.

This week though, a whole new approach, but is this what matters? Or is there something far, far, far darker and deeper that matters?

[18:20:00] (COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BANFIELD: We`re still talking about the disappearing act that went out of production a year ago. Actually, several years ago. But the drama, the

intense drama about that disappearing act is not going away anytime soon. Because just as a Vegas visitor takes David Copperfield to court, saying he

was injured as an audience participant in David`s show, two other people are now coming forward saying that they too got hurt during one of David

Copperfield`s shows.

The spotlight on Copperfield`s act has forced him to reveal some of his tricks, like how he uses secret passageways to get 13 people from a hoisted

cage to reappear at the back of the theater. But the most perplexing part of the trick is still a secret and that is key here, how he gets them out

of that cage. And little by little, the lawyer grilling David Copperfield on the stand is trying to claw those secrets out of him.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This particular illusion, and you call it now the 13. It`s just called the 13?

COPPERFIELD: 13.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Only 13. Not the? Just 13.

COPPERFIELD: Yes.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: OK, 13. Do you perform that anymore?

COPPERFIELD: I don`t.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And when did you stop performing that? What year?

COPPERFIELD: It`s been a few years, I believe.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Do you know what year you stopped?

COPPERFIELD: I don`t.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Was it before or after Mr. Cox has an accident?

COPPERFIELD: I believe it is two years after Mr. Cox. The incident.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BANFIELD: So my guests are back with me. And Rachel, one of the things I thought was very strange about this case, look, every so often, you know,

people will approach the bench for side bar. And they shut microphones down, so we can`t hear what the judge is talking about. And we as the

media, slash, the public gallery, don`t get to hear about that. And sometimes it`s not on the record either, right?

In this particular case, they were able to come to some weird agreement that hasn`t yet shown up in court --

STOCKMAN: Right.

BANFIELD: -- where if it starts getting real specific about David Copperfield`s secret sauce, they can kick you out?

STOCKMAN: Yes, I was actually kind of shocked by this. They were -- they may and they may still do this, kick the media and shut off the cameras, so

we can`t hear that testimony. This actually was appealed and this was an appellate court decision that came down about this, that basically we might

not be able to hear some of the really intimate details of this secret.

BANFIELD: Yes. That would be weird, kicking the media out, means kicking the public out. Because we`re just public, you know, spectators, right?

You would not be able to sit in that courtroom.

STOCKMAN: But you have to remember, this is part of Copperfield`s business, how he makes money. It`s his trade secret. So, he -- you know,

the court found that he has a right too, to some of this. And some of this doesn`t have to be exposed, kind of like big companies wouldn`t have to

expose their secrets to the public of how they make things work.

BANFIELD: McDonald`s, the Big Mac, the secret sauce, I have tried. I have taken ketchup and mayonnaise and relish, I have mix it together. I have

never at home been able to make the secret sauce.

STOCKMAN: Exactly.

BANFIELD: -- the special sauce of McDonald`s and Kentucky Fried Chicken, I`ve never been able to make my chicken taste like that either. For good

reason. They`re called trade secrets. This might be why David, you know, at one point last week was just so incredibly frustrated. And so was the

plaintiff`s attorney. You don`t get to see -- David`s always this happy, jovial performer. His whole world looks magic.

But this was a moment where you start to see the businessman and the attorney butting heads. And I`m going to let it play out. You be the

judge of whether you thought the plaintiff was cantankerous or David was cantankerous, but this was not a happy moment. Take a look.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Mr. Copperfield, can I ask if you would please not give speeches. OK?

COPPERFIELD: OK.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You know, I understand that your job -- and you`ve said actually being a magician is being nothing, if not an entertainer, isn`t

that true? That is a yes or no, right? You`ve said that.

COPPERFIELD: It`s more than just that.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes. OK? And I know that you believe that you and your company and the other defendants in this case are not responsible to

Mr. Cox, right? You`re not responsible to him, yes or no?

COPPERFIELD: I don`t think we`re responsible.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You don`t think so, right? OK. Mr. Copperfield, we`re not going to get along if you keep doing this? OK?

COPPERFIELD: Just trying to tell the truth.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Next question. All I`m asking you for is answer my questions.

[18:25:06] COPPERFIELD: Trying to help.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No speeches. OK? You are not helping.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BANFIELD: Yes, I`d be mad.

STOCKMAN: It is all the showman, the attorney and David Copperfield, it was a dual show there, Ashleigh.

BANFIELD: So, what is ironic, though is that, this week, the judge actually came down on the lawyer and said, you stop making speeches. The

first thing that lawyer said to David Copperfield, was, Mr. Copperfield, you don`t make speeches while you`re on the stand. Copperfield`s like,

yes, yes, OK.

But ultimately, the lawyer came down -- the judge came down on the lawyer and said, you stop making those speeches. I mean, it`s really a contest in

this courtroom. But I get it, like if you`re David Copperfield, you want to maintain your brand, because he knows it`s on television, right? You

want to answer the questions. But you don`t want to get bulldozed.

That is a hard, high wire to walk. And I get it. He doesn`t want to give away, you know, his trade secrets. How much time do we have left? Can I

do the -- our producer Talia, who was booking you today, asked if you could do the bird trick.

BOYCE: Yes, well, we were able to figure out something else. It`s a card trick, but like, you know, I want to take it a step further.

BANFIELD: OK.

BOYCE: OK? So instead of just taking out a card, I want you to just see one.

BANFIELD: OK.

BOYCE: So as the cards fly by, it is pretty fast, just say stop, that way you get a good look at one.

BANFIELD: Stop.

BOYCE: That is yours.

BANFIELD: Yes.

BOYCE: But I want to take it a step further.

BANFIELD: How are they going to know what it is?

BOYCE: You just have to tell them in the end. Keep it in your mind.

BANFIELD: OK.

BOYCE: So I could just cut through the cards and try to find your card.

BANFIELD: I think my Director said that -- the audience did see it.

BOYCE: Did the camera caught it? That is great, that would be better. So I could try to find it with sleight of hand, but I told you I want to take

it a step further.

BANFIELD: OK.

BOYCE: So I could cover it with my handkerchief here, and try to find the card without even looking. But I want to take it a step further. So I`ll

could cover with my handkerchief here.

BANFIELD: OK.

BOYCE: And try to find the card without even looking.

BANFIELD: OK.

BOYCE: But I want it to take a step further.

BANFIELD: OK.

BOYCE: So I wrap up the deck in the handkerchief.

BANFIELD: OK.

BOYCE: In that way I`m not even touching the cards. I will just hold it like this, and I form a little hole, just with touch right there, and you

can see the cards start to melt right through, and it`s not just any card, but we`ll get to that in a moment.

BANFIELD: Wait there is no --

BOYCE: Look the hole is already sealed and the other 51 cards are gone.

BANFIELD: Gone? You`re not that good.

BOYCE: No, that is a different trick altogether. That is just not any card.

BANFIELD: OK.

BOYCE: Of course that is the card you`re thinking of, which is?

BANFIELD: Nine of hearts, oh, my god.

BOYCE: But I told you I would take it a step further and I can`t just stop right here with the cards. So your wish is my command.

BANFIELD: Oh, jeez, the bird. Oh, my god.

BOYCE: And that is how we took it a step further.

BANFIELD: That is crazy.

STOCKMAN: Wow.

BANFIELD: So I`m going to ask what every person I assume asks you when you do that, how do you do that?

STONE: Wow.

BOYCE: A lot of years of practice. And you know, care and love for my partners. You know, this is airplane and she is been with me for a long

time.

BANFIELD: Airplane? That is airplane?

BOYCE: This is airplane.

BANFIELD: That is great.

BOYCE: You work on magic. It`s just like anything else, you know, any musician dedicates their life to an art, a craft, and magic is the same

way.

BANFIELD: So here`s what`s interesting about that. I -- you know, -- Houdini might have actually done a bird trick at some point.

BOYCE: I am sure.

BANFIELD: So the bird is a signature of magic. But the other stuff was not. That was like a blended variety of spices that you created to put

this trick together. Which brings me back to Copperfield.

BOYCE: Yes.

BANFIELD: Whatever the hell he did to get those people off that platform, I still don`t know. I get it, I always knew there was some passageway,

right? I knew that. But I still don`t know how he did the thing on the platform. And if he does have to give that up, and if it is public, is

that not the bones to a trick that people will not be able to use again.

BOYCE: No, it would be disappointing if that were to come out. But most magic is just sitting in the public library right now. It is just a matter

of who wants to access it. No secrets are out there in the daylight.

STOCKMAN: And also, couldn`t some of the participants, I`m surprised this has never happened more often. They could revealed, they were there. They

know what happened. They could always reveal.

BANFIELD: Would they really know? Because their vantage point may not be so obvious. I keep thinking smoke and mirrors and they might not see the

mirrors, you know.

STOCKMAN: Would they know? Would the participants know about what happened?

BOYCE: Well, it`s hard to say, but I would say, that a lot of people when they want, when they`ve been on the other side of the curtain, they want to

preserve the magic and be part of that and create wonder for everybody else.

BANFIELD: That was awesome.

BOYCE: thank you so much.

BANFIELD: By the way, is she friendly?

BOYCE: Oh, yes. Airplane is --

BANFIELD: By the way -- I`ve been pecked before.

BOYCE: No, you just put your hand out like that.

BANFIELD: Oh dear god, Oh, she is on -- what did I pick, what did I pick the right Melania Trump outfit to wear today, right? Holy cow, that is

crazy. Hello, Airplane. Are you sure she won`t peck at me?

BOYCE: No, she is a dove. They don`t have that type of instinct.

BANFIELD: I don`t know, I bring that out in people. Thank you. Oh my god, Alexander, that was wonderful.

BOYCE: Thank you so much.

BANFIELD: Thank you for showing us. And thank you for the perspective too. Because I think it`s critical to hear the artist and the scientist

and the businessman perspective on all of this. And Rachel, will you stay for the next hour?

(LAUGHTER)

STOCKMAN: Sure.

BANFIELD: Talk about with me when on the spot. I got other tricks that might (inaudible). Thank you again.

BOYCE: Thank you so much.

BANFIELD: Brian Claypool is going to stay with us as well.

HERE

(JOINED IN PROGRESS)

[18:30:00] ASHLEIGH BANFIELD, CRIME AND JUSTICE SHOW HOST, HLN: -- and the scientist and the businessman perspective on all of this. Will you stay

for the next hour?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Sure.

(LAUGHTER)

BANFIELD: Talk about being put on the spot. I`ve got other tricks up my sleeve. Thank you again. Brian Claypool is going to stay with us as well. I

love the fact that Alexander`s (ph) bird`s name is Airplane, because it brings me to my next story. And I didn`t realize (INAUDIBLE) was coming,

but we`ve had a lot of instances of airline passengers behaving really badly on airplane.

And I want to add this guy to the growing list. Yes. And he`s got that kind of magician`s mustache too. You`re not going to believe how many times they

had to tase this fellow and how that didn`t even bring him down. We`ll show you how this ended.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What is the reason you`re removing me from this plane?

(END VIDEO CLIP)

[18:35:00] (COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BANFIELD: All they wanted was to fly from Miami to Chicago. It`s the standard two and a half hour flight that American Airlines does every two

hours, right? But the passengers on board flight 2446 this past Sunday were an hour late getting off the ground. And it was all thanks to one

mustachioed man seemingly dedicated to destroying any chance of a pleasant takeoff or flight.

Because after allegedly insulting airport staff with a racial slur and fondling the woman seated next to him and then of course getting in an

argument with her boyfriend, even the police could not make him stop.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Get him off! Get him off! Get him off!

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Listen.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Get the (beep) off the plane.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Do not fight. Do not fight. Do not fight. Do you understand that? No, no, you listen. Do you understand that? I`m asking you

right now because you have to answer. You`re about to get tased. I`m tasing you.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Go ahead and tase me and you`ll see what happens.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Johnson, watch out.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You got him?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yeah.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I have to ask multiple times. Why am I being removed --

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: There you go.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Wait. You want to remove me? That`s fine. I`m happy to walk off.

BANFIELD (voice over): Oh, jeez. That`s 28-year-old Jacob Garcia. He went on to try to grab an officer`s gun, the police say. That happened after he

was carried out of the spot he`s in. And then as he was being carted out to the cop car, he actually managed to even kick out or at least realign a

rear window in the cop car.

And he`s not going to make it home to Chicago anytime soon because he was stuck in jail in Miami, charged with battery, disorderly conduct, criminal

mischief, resisting an officer, and attempting to deprive an officer of a means of protection. Those are not good charges. Just ask defense attorney

Brian Claypool.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BANFIELD: He`s in Los Angeles. And also Jabari Ennis. Jabari took some of the video on board that plane. Jabari, I want to ask you about it in a

minute. First, I actually want to play your angle. Because it might have been hard to make out what was actually happening, what that guy was really

doing, and what he was screaming. But from your angle, it`s basically the perfect bird`s eye view. Have a look.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What is the reason you`re removing me from this plane?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Well, you just assaulted a lady, for one.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No, you guys are trying to get on social media.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You`re a racist, for two.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What is the reason you`re removing me from this plane?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You got him?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Do not fight. Do not fight. Do not fight. Do you understand that? No, no, you listen. Do yo understand that? I`m asking you

right now. Because you have to answer.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Just tase him.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Back up, guys. Back up. Back up.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Go ahead and tase me and you`ll see what happens.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Johnson, watch out. Watch out. Johnson, watch out.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Go ahead, Johnson. Get the (beep) out of here.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BANFIELD: So the tasing story gets even more serious. Jabari, you really - - you could see everything. The one thing that`s not on the video is what happened beforehand. Allegedly the molesting of a passenger next to him,

the fight with her boyfriend, and the racist comments. Can you fill those blanks in a little bit. Tell us what happened.

JABARI ENNIS, RECORDED PLANE INCIDENT: Sure, I can try. Thank you for having me, Ashleigh. So basically he started out in an agitated state. I

think when we saw him, he was in a seat close to the front of the plane. And to your point, the girlfriend was sitting across from him.

[18:40:00] And he was continuing to try to speak to her and make passes at her in front of her boyfriend. By the way, the boyfriend was as big as

Thor, so I`m surprised he was that brave. After a while, the flight attendant came because the boyfriend called the flight attendant to ask him

to be removed from beside them because he wouldn`t stop.

And he got very argumentative with the flight attendant and got very agitated and was making a lot of racist comments under his breath at the

time. I couldn`t personally hear them, but a lot of other passengers did. So the flight attendant tried to resolve the situation by moving him

further back in the plane, which ended up being right beside me.

BANFIELD: And this is the scene we`re seeing play out beside you. I only interrupt for a moment because I can see the police officer pulling out his

taser. And this became a big, big part of the story. You saw him try to grab at the taser, and the taser went off ten different times. Have a

listen to this one part of your videotape, where you can see the tasing going on and then the reference that the officers make to maybe he`s on

something. Have a look.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You got him?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You think? So I`m asking you now.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I just got tased.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Sit down. Sit down.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I have to ask.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I don`t know what he`s on, but --

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes, he`s on some strong shit.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BANFIELD: It may have been that, or it may have also been -- I think you`re smiling, Jabari. Was that you who said that?

(LAUGHTER)

ENNIS: One of them, yes.

(LAUGHTER)

BANFIELD: Well, apparently one of the prongs may not have been touching him. So while you see a minute of the clicking, and it seems like the guy

would be in pain, it may not have been quite as significant.

But this tape continues to -- someone else`s cell phone video once once they dragged him off the plane, then he`s now been dragged into the

terminal where there`s a waiting golf cart and even that presented a problem. Have a look at this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I will sit, but if you do not push me down.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Sit.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Everyone is hearing this? No, I`m willing to sit but if you guys will force me, I`m not going to do it. I mean everybody here is

seeing this.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: They`re seeing what a piece of shit you are.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: You deserve it. Bye!

(CHEERS AND APPLAUSE)

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BANFIELD: And that`s how that ended, except for the charges. And Jabari, hold for one second. Brian, I`m being told that these are not federal

charges. I assumed immediately, you`re on a plane, you do this stuff, you`re going down to the feds. Not the case here.

BRIAN CLAYPOOL, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Yes, I`m a little bit surprised too, Ashleigh. You know, I have probably an unpopular stance on what happened

here. I know he`s a bad guy and everything. But you heard him say at the end, look, don`t force me to do it and I won`t do it. And I just think --

look at the tape right now you`re showing your viewers.

They`re grabbing him by the neck. They were kind of choking him, pulling him by the neck, and your normal body reaction is to kind of defend

yourself. So I kind of feel like there should have been a little bit more of a discussion, a little bit more dialogue, calm him down and then try to

get him off the plane.

BANFIELD: Yes, I`m with you and I`m not. I hate this guy for what he was doing. But also, I`m told that because the plane hadn`t taken off and

hadn`t flown, that`s why it`s state charges, it`s going to be Florida charges. Once the plane flies, if you do that stuff in the air, then the

feds kick in.

I got to cut it there. But, by the way, Jabari, thank you for sharing the video and your perspective and your smile. I appreciate it. And I hope you

are going to have a good flight next time around. Brian Claypool, you can`t go anywhere.

Tonight there are prosecutors in Tennessee who say it`s too early to tell if they`re going to seek the death penalty against the waffle house shooter

Travis Reinking. And that they are talking to federal authorities about bringing a potential hate crime charges against him, rethinking he is

spending a second night in jail after a Tennessee judge revoked the $2 million bond that was granted when he was booked.

Reinking was accused of killing four people at a national waffle house on Sunday and the leading police on a 36-hour manhunt before his dramatic

catch. He is due back in court on May 7th. Back in just a moment.

[18:45:00] (COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BANFIELD: Some people seem to get special treatment. You probably know somebody in that category, right? But you probably don`t know anybody like

Brooke Skylar Richardson. She`s the 19-year-old former cheerleader accused of giving birth after prom and then quickly burying that newborn baby right

in her family`s backyard.

That brought her a very serious charge, aggravated murder. And for over eight months now, she`s been out on bond, a very touchy subject too for

people in the community, some of whom have shown up outside of her court appearances protesting. When prosecutors asked for a million dollars bond,

the judge instead set it at 50,000. And she ponied up and she`s been out ever since. While awaiting trial, she`s been allowed to hang out at her

home.

[18:50:00] You can see her here in the yard with her dog. And now her bond condition is changing again. She`s being given even more freedom. A judge

has just decided that she can now leave the house and kinda do whatever she wants, between the hours of 7:00 a.m. and 9:00 p.m. This is a young woman

suspected of murder, walking free, like the young woman she was going to be before she allegedly killed her baby.

And again, that`s allegedly. Still a trial to go through. But now we don`t even know what that court date will be. She`s out there somewhere, at the

grocery store and all the places you might be. With me now, defense attorney Brian Claypool. So, how does that happen?

CLAYPOOL: Ashleigh, I thought you are all about constitutional rights. Come on, what happened?

BANFIELD: Not for aggravated murder.

CLAYPOOL: Did you have -- was the canary or the dove with the constitutional rights too, vanish?

BANFIELD: No, it`s not about that. And you and I both well know that yes, you have a constitutional right to post bond, but there are some people for

which the flight risk is too grave. And that`s why usually people who are going up on murder charges don`t get bond.

CLAYPOOL: Right.

BANFIELD: Phil Spector being one of the guys who did, but almost nobody else. Why her?

CLAYPOOL: Because she has -- the court decided she has strong ties to the community. She`s not a flight risk. She has appeared at all of her

hearings. She`s cooperated. And she`s also going to be subject, Ashleigh, to random drug tests, random home visits, and she`s going to have to wear a

GPS monitor at all times. So, the court weighed all that and felt like this was a fair resolution.

BANFIELD: So I guess I want to ask about weighing the community`s sensibilities as well. Because already there were people frustrated or

thought it was special treatment that she got to stay at home instead of a cell. Casey Anthony was in (INAUDIBLE) for the entire time before she was

exonerated, right? She was acquitted.

CLAYPOOL: Yes.

BANFIELD: But Brooke now will be out at the safe way and everywhere else. I`m wondering if the community has a right here as well.

CLAYPOOL: I mean that`s a good point, but I think what`s happening here, Ashleigh, is the judge probably looked at her age, for example. She`s

young. Maybe she`s dealing with some issues, you know, as a 19-year-old. And my guess is that the judge actually gave her a little bit more of a

hall pass, especially with the $50,000 initial bond you mentioned.

That`s pretty ridiculous. But I think age and maturity level played into the court doing this. You know as well as I do, the rules are not always

cut and dry when it comes to this.

BANFIELD: I`ll say, you know, she comes from a family of means. And so a lot of people would say that`s special treatment. You and I were just

talking about the cozy home bed and all the rest. They could have well afforded that perhaps million dollar bond, or that would have been, look, a

million dollars is a lot for anybody, but that would have absolutely prevented a flight, right?

CLAYPOOL: Yes.

BANFIELD: But 50,000 might be a drop in the bucket. So why would a million dollar request be reduced to a $50,000 bond?

CLAYPOOL: You raise another good point that a lot of people don`t like to talk about, which is politics playing a part in our judicial system,

affluence playing a part in our judicial system. I`ll go out on a limb and say this. Had she come from a very low income family, maybe from an

immigrant family, maybe she doesn`t get this treatment that she`s getting in a small town in Ohio.

BANFIELD: Yes. Result might be different. Brian, don`t go anywhere. I still have other things for you to do and for you to say, so hold that

thought.

Monkey see, monkey sued. And now there is finally a decision on who owns this world famous selfie that always makes me laugh and that always makes

my kids laugh too. One more thing straight ahead.

[18:55:00] (COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BANFIELD: One more thing for you tonight. There was no monkeying around when a federal court of appeals made its decision on who owns the copyright

of this, this world famous selfie and my favorite photograph ever.

It was ruled it belongs to the photographer, David Slater. Even though David didn`t really take the picture. Naruto did. Naruto is the crested

macaque monkey that was playing with Slater`s unattended camera in the forest when -- there you go, he snapped himself a selfie in Indonesia.

But because Naruto is a monkey and not a human, sadly, he has no standing in U.S. courts and he has no copyright claims. But he is adorable. And he

will go down as extraordinarily famous and adorable.

(LAUGHTER)

BANFIELD: But he doesn`t get the money. Next hour of "Crime and Justice" starts right now.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

[19:00:03] UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE (voice over): If you thought David Copperfield had already spilled the beans on how he makes his magic happen

--

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Bring him up into the air.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE (voice over): He`s only just getting --

HERE

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

[19:00:04] UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: If you thought David Copperfield had already spilled the beans on how he makes his magic happen --

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Jack them up into the air.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: -- here`s only just getting started.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We`re good.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: In a Vegas courtroom, a show of a different kind.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: A gentleman slipped during the trick and fell.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Where more audience participants are coming out of the wood work.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It`s important that you are 18 years in good health.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: And saying the tricks they agreed to do were dangerous. Will he have to cough up even deeper secrets to his magic?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It`s their fault, not yours, yes or no?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I can`t answer that as a yes or no question. I don`t know if he did anything wrong.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: And pay up to the people he asked up on stage?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Ten minutes before they do, I do.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: A cross-country flight turns into a fight.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Get the (bleep) off the plane.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: -- before the plane even gets off the ground.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Do not fight, do you understand that?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No, no, you listen.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: And it`s all thanks to one mustachioed man.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What is the reason why you are removing me from this plane?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You just assaulted a lady for one. You are racist, for two.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: He allegedly fondled the woman sitting next to him, made a racist slur towards airport staff and started taunting the officers

who had to carry him off the plane.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Tase me and you`ll see what happens.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Tased ten times, he was still spouting off. But he wasn`t finished even when he got to the cop car.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: You deserve it.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Bye!

(END VIDEOTAPE)

ASHLEIGH BANFIELD, HLN HOST: Good evening, everyone. I`m Ashleigh Banfield. Welcome to the second hour of CRIME & JUSTICE.

You might have thought you knew what was going on with David Copperfield, the world famous magician forced to cough up his secrets in a Las Vegas

courtroom in order to prove that his magic show is a safe magic show. Because a man says he got hurt during that magic show.

But the David Copperfield story is only just beginning. Because David still has not revealed the core secret to his grand finale trick. And

while we all wait to hear if he`s going to have to do it, spill everything, two more people have now reportedly come forward saying they too got hurt

in a David Copperfield show.

So they amount to just three people, and that`s a lot. But maybe not when you consider hundreds of thousands of audience members who have wanted to

be a part of that magic and almost a hundred thousand who have.

But now it`s starting to seem for all the eager people rushing to the stage, saying, pick me, pick me. I want to be on stage. There could be a

parade of people coming back at the production companies asking for millions of dollars. And that could change the way Vegas does business and

everybody else who puts on a show.

The numbers are already on the minds of Copperfield`s team because they have made a point of saying on the stand that 96,000 people have

participated in this act without getting hurt. But Copperfield himself is dismissing the statistic`s significance.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Is it a fact? Is it a fact?

DAVID COPPERFIELD, MAGICIAN: I can only answer to my point of view.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: That`s the only point of view I`m trying for right now.

COPPERFIELD: The fact is, I know it.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: OK.

COPPERFIELD: I`m not in the business of hurting people.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BANFIELD: That`s quite a smile, but today on the stand, a deadly serious David Copperfield doubled down saying that the numbers don`t matter when it

comes to defending his magic.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

COPPERFIELD: I don`t believe it`s a defense. Another defense.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: OK.

COPPERFIELD: I`ll tell you why.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Would you agree with me that if, in fact, those numbers, or any numbers, are being used as a defense, it best be accurate?

Yes or no?

COPPERFIELD: I`m not using it as a defense.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BANFIELD: Somebody out there does think that the numbers matter. The attorney representing the man suing David Copperfield for negligence,

because now that attorney has two more people who might be willing to talk in that courtroom. And might be capable of changing the way we all

experience these shows and that magic.

With me now, Jesse Webber, host of the law and crime network. Peter Samelson is the co-producer of Monday Night Magic, that`s the longest

running off Broadway magic show in New York. And also with me from L.A. defense attorney Brian Claypool.

Thank you to all three of you.

Jesse, I`m going to begin with you. You are following the trial day to day. I want to talk about the money. Because I don`t know how much David

Copperfield makes. And I don`t know how much MGM brings it with all those tickets. That thing has been going for over a decade, right.

[19:05:20] JESSE WEBBER, HOST, LAW AND CRIME NETWORK: 15 years.

BANFIELD: Fifteen years now. OK, so I`m just going go out on a lark here, millions and millions of dollars.

WEBER: Oh, yes, it`s a closely held secret. And in fact, what`s interesting, if you look at the complaint, they are asking for an

unspecified amount of damages. We don`t know yet. That`s what they are trying to determine during the course of this trial.

(CROSSTALK)

BANFIELD: I want to know if this is going to be the cost of doing business. You always hear about that, right. Look. Someone is going to

sue us, to hell with it, over the course of this many years, it`s going to be a drop in the bucket. But I think this plaintiff has said he has had

injuries of around $400,000.

WEBER: It`s about the money, but it`s about something more. And you said it in the beginning about two other people that are coming forward. It`s

not entirely clear whether they want to come forward for compensation or whether they want to make a point. It seems to be a larger issue for the

magic community, saying, if this is what`s happening, and people are partaking in a magic trick that`s not safe, is it so much about the money

or making a statement about the industry? And I think that whole element is really what`s at stake here. More than the money. Because as you said,

David Copperfield and the MGM grand, they can spare a buck.

BANFIELD: Peter, I can imagine you look at this through a different prism, and that is like the floodgates, you know. What if this plaintiff prevails

and David Copperfield has to cough up whatever amount of money, let alone the secrets. I will get there in a minute because I think that is even a

bigger deal for you.

But does it mean that audience participation will become a whole new ball game? Meaning, if I do that, here is precedent. This guy got millions at

David Copperfield. I can`t bring anybody up on stage, damn it.

PETER SAMELSON, CO-PRODUCER, MONDAY NIGHT MAGIC: Well, it is a really good question. On the other hand, you know that most performers, especially

those of us who would do anything where we involve people from the audience, carry insurance. So we make sure that we are at least covered

and there`s a backstop for that to make sure there at least some protection. The other thing beyond that --

BANFIELD: Do the small guys do that?

SAMELSON: Oh, yes.

BANFIELD: I mean, I know that you are off Broadway shows every Monday night. You have been doing it for over ten years, right?

SAMELSON: Twenty-one years.

BANFIELD: Twenty-one years.

SAMELSON: Twenty-one years in June. Yes.

BANFIELD: So it`s a big old deal. And it`s New York City, I get that.

SAMELSON: Yes.

BANFIELD: But there are a lot of people out there, the mom and pop magic, you know, performers that probably don`t have insurance.

SAMELSON: They almost all do.

BANFIELD: Really?

SAMELSON: Yes.

BANFIELD: It`s come to that already?

SAMELSON: Yes. And there are clown networks that have insurance.

BANFIELD: Well, that I get. Those guys are creepy. I don`t want them coming near me. I used to be a clown. You didn`t know that.

SAMELSON: That`s a secret.

BANFIELD: When I was in college, it`s a crazy story. I won`t even get into it now.

I want to see some of your stuff, though. Because there`s been a lot of talk in this courtroom about the timing, about rushing these people, and I

think David Copperfield is having to answer for a lot of the timing. You go ahead and start setting up something about timing. And while you are

doing it, I want to show you what David Copperfield was asked about whether they are asked to walk, whether they have to run, whether this is really a

force thing where accidents can happen. You be the judge of what it sounded like. Have a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: So it`s your belief that the participants during the illusion do not run, they actually walk briskly?

COPPERFIELD: I think it`s their choice.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I didn`t ask you whose choice it was. I wanted to ask you whether or not it is your belief that they are taking a brisk walk, or

do you know that they run?

COPPERFIELD: I think they do both, depending on their choice.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BANFIELD: So that`s about the speed with which this whole trick has to be carried out. And I`m told, it`s between a minute and a minute 30,

somewhere in there.

WEBER: Right. Because every audience is different. And again, he was so not clear on the stand. To the defense`s credit, I think if you are on the

jury, you are not entirely clear if the participants are supposed to run, if they are not supposed to run. His answers today were about, I don`t

know, can you repeat the question, can`t hear the question, it`s not a yes or no question. And he was on the stand for so long. And I don`t think

anybody was left with a clear answer.

BANFIELD: I love this next one where he has asked a simple question, that`s actually in the documents that you can get at the courthouse right

now, even online you can get it. And without telling you what it is, I`m going to let you hear this as it played out in court. Have a listen. It`s

about whether he actually knew that anybody had ever been injured. Take a look.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Of the times that the 13 had been performed, during a run-around in any of the locations, has anyone ever -- and I`m not talking

about Mr. Cox now, other than Mr. Cox, has anyone ever fallen and been injured? Yes or no?

[19:10:02] COPPERFIELD: Not to my knowledge.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BANFIELD: I don`t know if I believe that. Not to my -- you would know, wouldn`t you? You are the master of the ceremony. You would know if

somebody got hurt, 95,000 times someone`s run through the hallways.

SAMELSON: My guess is that there`s probably such a low level of disruption at the point time that he probably went, everything seems to be OK. You

know, I don`t want to weigh in too much on this. But you do pay attention. But if it`s happening backstage, where it`s not something that you are

seeing, you rely on someone else to tell you what`s going on.

BANFIELD: Timing is important. And the reason I`m drilling down on the timing and I know you have a trick. I`m assuming that timing matters on

your trick.

SAMELSON: Sure.

BANFIELD: Because we all know, right, we all know those people ran under a tunnel. I don`t think that`s the magic that we were shocked at learning

about. There is still more. There`s still more to this trick that we don`t know.

If you run the video, guys, when they get down off the platform, those people are all up on a raised platform, and you can see under the platform.

And somehow they disappear off that platform and end up in the tunnels, I get that. How do they get off the platform? I think that`s the core

secret that they`re clawing at. I don`t know if they`re going to get there. I don`t know if they are going to be able to get that out of David

Copperfield and really ruin this, ruin this trick. Because right now, telling me that they have run through the tunnels doesn`t blow the trick

away, and that`s part of the timing too. These people may not even know how they got off the platform, but timing is critical in magic.

SAMELSON: It is absolutely critical, it is indeed. And timing is important. Because magic is something that happens over time. It`s not

something that just happens in an instant. So for example, I have been laying out these kings of hearts, and this relates to an old movie,

"Invasion of the body snatchers." I used some of the kings are face up, those are the ones that are awake. Some of them are face down. Those are

the ones that are asleep. So these are the kings that are part of our little town. This is the pod creature. You can see the pod creature.

So in the movie, it doesn`t just happen all at once. The pod creature emerges and starts taking over the town. So the first person it would come

upon would be a derelict in the gutter, and he roughs him up a little bit, and then he changes.

And these guy sees it happened. He runs to get the cops. Before he gets a block away, they tap him on the shoulder and he is gone. Sometimes they

attack in pairs. So they attack in pairs when you are not looking, it`s all over for you, because immediately you have got one, two, and three.

BANFIELD: Wow.

SAMELSON: Sometimes they attack in pairs while you are looking. If you are looking, when they attack, it`s still all over for you, because

immediately you have one, two, and three. And there`s a scarlet O`Hara in town. This should be a movie references. She is gone with the wind. All

these movies have a drifter. He doesn`t really belong in the film, but as he passes through town, they get him.

BANFIELD: Oh, my God.

SAMELSON: And then there`s the hero and heroin, true blue in loyal, often to the west men, when a little cave with a river running through it. You

may remember the river. They are suddenly gone, gone, gone. And that is the invasion of the body snatchers.

BANFIELD: That`s pretty crazy.

SAMELSON: And only because it happens over time does it become -- it builds. So things have to seem like there`s this moment at this the change

happens. But the fact that things build and grow and change, the timing is critical. So how long? Where does it ties? When do I actually make the

change happen? How do I build and construct the stuff? All these little bits of timing and change build to one effect and experience.

BANFIELD: That`s - I mean, I got be honest. I watched you setting that trick up. And it was just a deck of cards. It looked pretty standard. I

didn`t see anything weird. I know the audience wasn`t all looking at it when you were laying out the kings of hearts, and the monsters -- what did

you call them? The sleeping cards. You couldn`t rush that.

SAMELSON: No.

It`s important, and especially in this situation, for you to see them all going down. If I just sort of started -- and that`s why it`s a little

awkward. If you see them all down to begin with, that doesn`t work.

BANFIELD: I don`t played it as well for the audience. Because I`m literally a foot and a half away. And so it`s hard for me to convey sort

of the awe that I have, which I want to keep. I want to keep loving this, like Santa and the Easter bunny and everything. It`s a quarter after

seven, so we should be good. You know what I mean.

SAMELSON: I know what you mean. Exactly.

BANFIELD: But there`s also the issue of the audience, right. And I think not only am I your audience, but that jury is an audience, and they had to

answer the piper today as to whether or not they have been watching the coverage. Because in Vegas, it`s the lead story. You can imagine Vegas

local news. This would be the lead story for every one of those juror as they go home. What did the judge get to with the jury?

WEBER: Well, it is not just that (INAUDIBLE), who is the plaintiff`s attorney. He gave an interview with CBS News literally right before trial

began today, and the judge had to say to some of the jurors, did you watch anything about this case? And they said, listen, we saw it on the news, we

turned it off immediately. We didn`t see anything.

BANFIELD: Everyone asked individually?

WEBER: Yes, of course.

BANFIELD: And they all answered honestly, to our knowledge.

WEBER: This case is huge. Everybody has been following this case. And it`s going to be so hard to find a jury and have a jury stay unbiased and

not look at anything outside of the court.

[19:15:00] BANFIELD: SO, OK. Can you stay?

SAMELSON: Sure.

BANFIELD: Can you stay?

WEBER: Yes.

BANFIELD: Because you know what`s coming. He is going to do more magic.

And I wanted you to stay for another trick because I asked our producer (INAUDIBLE) when she was planning for you to be here with your colleague,

Alex Boyce was here earlier. Just a wonderful, wonderful magic. I want you to do something risky.

SAMELSON: OK.

BANFIELD: I don`t know what the trick is. I know you run over it with her. I was on the 7th floor. But I want you to do something risky because

I think it all comes down to this terrific being risky, right. Because it`s a personal injury and risk story. And I think you have to assume some

risks. And so do I, as the audience at some point. So without telling you it anymore. There is fire involved.

We are coming right back after this.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[19:20:36] BANFIELD: We are still talking about the trial that could change the entertainment experience for all of us, because a man has taken

David Copperfield to court. He claims that he was injured during David`s disappearing act. And we thought Copperfield`s secrets to his magic tricks

might actually be all spilled out by now. But make no mistake, he is only getting started on the stand and the core secrets are still locked in that

vault of his, and that`s because of that lawsuit. The man suing Copperfield says his injuries are serious. But Copperfield claims he

didn`t even know about them until he got served a year later.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: When you learned, you say about a year later, that Mr. Cox had fallen and been injured, were you surprised? Yes or no, were you

surprised?

COPPERFIELD: Yes.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: OK. And if you learned that someone else other than Mr. Cox, prior to Mr. Cox falling and being injured, had fallen and been

injured, would that surprise you?

COPPERFIELD: It would surprise me.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BANFIELD: What might surprise David Copperfield even more is if the plaintiff calls on a couple more witnesses. If the plaintiff decides to

bring a few more people up on the stand, who also claim that they were hurt at a show. Because according to the attorney, Gavin Cox, who is in the

courtroom, wasn`t the only person who got hurt while they were helping the magic happen. But we don`t know whether that`s going to happen. Whether

those two more people rumored to be around, will see the light of day in a Perry Mason moment in that courtroom.

With me now, Jesse Webber, he is the hose of the Law and Crime Network, Peter Samelson is back. He is co-producer of Monday Night Magic, the

longest running off Broadway magic show in New York and defense attorney Brian Claypool is back with me.

Brian, there was this crazy thing that happened with regard to the secret, right. The really, really serious trade secret. The judge has suggested

they might actually kick everybody out. They would close down the cameras and kick everybody out. Do you actually see that happening? Do you see

that`s a good remedy? Because this is a public trial, public means people should be in the gallery, which means I should be in the gallery, the

media.

BRIAN CLAYPOOL, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Well, Ashleigh, I have a question before I give you an answer. Can you ask Alexander, your prior guest, and Peter,

if they could rub their hands together and do a magical act and send a 24- hour fitness membership over to the lawyers representing David Copperfield, so they can try to muscle up a little bit and start defending him better in

the courtroom!

BANFIELD: I don`t think they can do that.

CLAYPOOL: OK. They can`t do that? Peter, come on! Can you pull that off? Ashleigh, come on.

SAMELSON: We will work on that.

CLAYPOOL: Thank you.

These lawyers are letting this trial be about everything that it shouldn`t be about. It`s really about one issue, what caused this gentleman to fall?

What was the condition of the floor that caused him to fall? It`s not about the trade secret that I believe should be protected. It`s a

sovereign trade secret. And this case has been about everything but what really caused it and caused the fall. And I don`t know why these lawyers

are not, for example, better preparing their witness. How embarrassing that David Copperfield`s up there, you know, I don`t even know I`m getting

sued, I don`t know if other people have gotten hurt. That`s crazy.

BANFIELD: That seemed weird.

Jesse, the other thing is, the celebrity factor. I mean, Brian`s out in L.A., so he has seen it all. But I`m just going through the list of a

couple of big celebrities who have had cameras in their courtroom and then we will go over what the result was. Shall we start?

CLAYPOOL: Let`s do it.

BANFIELD: O.J. Simpson. We know how that turned out. Cameras in the courtroom. Big celebrity. Robert Blake. Beretta. Big celebrity, cameras

in the courtroom, right. Michael Jackson. There`s another big one. Molestation case. Cameras weren`t in that courtroom, but they were

releasing doves outside the courtroom. It was crazy out there. Taylor Swift, she was sued. She was in that courtroom too. Things worked out

well for her. Hulk Hogan, he went after Gawker. And boy did he do well, shut that site down.

I don`t know what`s going to happen with Bill Cosby, but it was mistrial the first time around. And we are waiting any minute now, actually right

this moment, we are waiting on a potential verdict or some development, you know, to happen in that case. But celebrities do well. Celebrities really

do well.

[19:25:12] WEBER: It`s interesting to see that. Because so many of the cases, obviously some of them are unique, but there`s cases like this

across the country. You could see cases, murder cases, all kinds of cases like this happening. But the celebrity factor, I don`t care who you are on

that jury, I don`t care how much you know about that case. There`s something deep down inside in places they don`t talk about, that they look

at David Copperfield and they are mesmerized a little bit by him.

BANFIELD: Do you think -- it`s kind of a cool idea. But Peter, do you think that David Copperfield spent more of his time perhaps prepping his

persona to be in that courtroom rather than going over court papers and getting the nitty gritty facts of the case?

SAMELSON: Sure seems that way to me.

BANFIELD: What would you have done?

SAMELSON: Well, first of all, you have to understand, I have known David for many, many years. And we first met way back, way back when, 30 years

ago. So I think I would probably be focusing on just making sure that I understand what the process was going to be. But I think the idea of

defending this idea of the secrets, because I agree, I agree with your guests, this is not about the secret. The secret, how do they get from

there to there?

BANFIELD: I still can`t get over it.

SAMELSON: That`s the secret and that has nothing to do from what I know about this, it has nothing to do with the actual act that seems to have

been causing the problem.

BANFIELD: So it may or may not have, right, Jesse, because he tripped down in the basement in those hallways. But it is all part of one thing. If

you are rushed off the stage. Go, go, go, (INAUDIBLE). Grab the flashlight. It`s dark. Walk this way. Can you run? Can you speak

English? All these things are frenetic. And so, if they can actually prove this is all one big act, then they may have to give away the secret

of how they got off the platform.

WEBER: Well, if something affected at the beginning that might affected the end. But I have to tell you something. Now that he is being examined

by his own attorneys, he is being a little bit more loose on the stand. And I have to tell you, I was watching today, he almost, almost said

something about that elevated platform. Almost. And he almost let it slip. And that`s the scary part.

BANFIELD: He did?

WEBER: Because he is in an area of being comfortable. And he almost said -- he goes, well, the participants imagine that they are hanging, and he

stopped. He stopped. Because he was almost about to get into that elevated platform.

BANFIELD: See. That`s where I think we would have to really prep him.

OK. I got a couple minutes left and I again, want to do something about the risk factor. Because I worry that this will chill. What`s going on

here will chill audience participation because of the risk factor. And you do tricks with risks all the time. (INAUDIBLE). This one here involved

fire.

SAMELSON: Well, that`s really what you are talking about is the risk of -- . And for a magician, more than anything else, the biggest risk is the risk of exposure. I mean, you think about this. Because the secrets are

simple. The stories simple.

BANFIELD: I`m just going to move the papers away as you get ready for this.

(LAUGHTER)

BANFIELD: That preamble is way too cozy.

SAMELSON: Really, it`s OK. Because, you know, the truth of the matter is, in these situations, the risk is that you will destroy the magic. Because

ultimately, it`s the things that make you realize that pulls you out of the magic that`s the biggest risk. I know you say risk, danger, that sort of

stuff.

BANFIELD: I`m going to be OK?

SAMELSON: You`re going to be more than fine.

BANFIELD: I`m counting on you.

SAMELSON: If I might, I`ll show you something and tell you a bit of a story. We were talking about Alex`s bird before. Alexander`s bird. It is

a beautiful bird.

BANFIELD: Airplane bird. The bird named airplane last hour.

SAMELSON: And this is a story about a bird also, but it`s an ancient story. It is a myth. Because myths are what we build our lives on,

stories that may not be true, but speak to a truth inside of us. So this is an ancient story, the story of the phoenix. The phoenix is a mythical

bird from Greece, originally. It was scarlet and gold and resembled a falcon or an eagle. This is cheap origami.

BANFIELD: Nice. I`m out in one minute. OK. Fire away. What happens with this?

SAMELSON: So the bird would sit and burn in a nest that it would spent 500 years. You are about to meet the phoenix. So if I could get you to --

well, no, let`s do this.

BANFIELD: Oh, God.

SAMELSON: Let`s do it with a lighter. There you go.

BANFIELD: OK, all right. OK. I got 30 seconds.

SAMELSON: That`s it. A little bit higher if you would. Just like that, yes.

BANFIELD: There you go.

SAMELSON: There`s risk. There is the ire. There`s the fire. The phoenix would sit and burn until all that`s left were the ashes, the embers and the

smoke that rose into the night. But this is not a story about a bird. This is a story that comes much more. You can feel that. Just feel that.

It`s not too hot. So I would like you to hold on to this burnt section, if you would, right down there. Just hold on just like that.

BANFIELD: OK.

SAMELSON: Because this is a story about resurrection and rebirth because the Greeks said out of those ashes, the phoenix would rise again, unharmed,

reborn, and the Greeks said this. But the Egyptians said it was the sun that would die at the end of every day. And so there would be no way, if

you just release a little bit. There would be no way --.

BANFIELD: Oh, my God.

SAMELSON: For it simply to have this comeback completely restored.

BANFIELD: Are you kidding me? I felt the -- I felt that --

SAMELSON: -- exactly respawn completely. And so you can (INAUDIBLE).

BANFIELD: I felt the burn part.

SAMELSON: Exactly. So, the idea is, the biggest risk is that you would find -- pull yourself out of that story.

BANFIELD: I can`t. I can`t. I`m sorry. I just can`t pull myself out of that story. Peter Samelson, that was amazing. I wish I had time for

another trick. Jesse Webber (ph) --

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I thought it was going to turn into a bird.

BANFIELD: And Brian Claypool thank you as well. We are back right after this. Oh my God.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[19:35:47] BANFIELD: All they wanted was to fly from Miami to Chicago. That`s the standard 2-1/2-hour flight that American Airlines does every two

hours, right? But the passengers onboard flight 2446 this past Sunday were an hour late getting off the ground. And it was all thanks to one

mustachioed man, seemingly dedicated to destroying any chance of a pleasant take-off or flight. Because after allegedly insulting airport staff with a

racial slur, and fondling the woman seated next to him, and then of course, getting in an argument with her boyfriend, even the police could not make

him stop.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Get him off! Get him off! Get him off! Get him off! Get him off!

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Listen.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Get the (BLEEP) out the plane!

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Do not fight. Do not fight. Do not fight. Do you understand that?

JACOB GARCIA, MAN WHO GROPED PASSENGER ON FLIGHT: No, no, you listen.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Do you understand that?

GARCIA: I`m asking you right now because you have to answer. What are you (INAUDIBLE)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You`re about to get tased.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I`m tasing you.

GARCIA: Go ahead and tase me and you`ll see what happens.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Johnson, watch out.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You got him?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes.

GARCIA: I have to ask multiple times. Why am I being removed --

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: There you go.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Wow.

GARCIA: Wait, you want to remove me? That`s fine. I`m happy to walk off.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BANFIELD: Oh, jeez. That`s 28-year-old Jacob Garcia. He went on to try to grab an officer`s gun, the police say. That happened after he was

carried out of the spot he`s in. And then, as he was being carted out to the cop car, he actually managed to even kick out, or at least realign a

rear window in the cop car. And he`s not going to make it home to Chicago anytime soon because he was stuck in jail in Miami, charged with battery,

disorderly conduct, criminal mischief, resisting an officer and attempting to deprive an officer of a means of protection. Those are not good

charges. Just ask Defense Attorney Brian Claypool, he`s in Los Angeles. He`s seen a thing or two. And also Jabari Ennis. Jabari took some of the

video on board that plane. And Jabari, I`m going to ask you about it in a minute, but first, I actually want to play your angle because it might have

been hard to make out what was actually happening, what that guy was really doing, and what he was screaming. But from your angle, it`s basically the

perfect bird`s eye view. Have a look.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GARCIA: What is the reason you`re removing me from this plane?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Well, you just assaulted a lady, for one.

GARCIA: No, you guys are trying to get on social media.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You`re racist, for two.

GARCIA: What is the reason you`re removing me from this plane?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You got him?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Do not fight. Do not fight. Do not fight. Do not fight. Do you understand that?

GARCIA: No, no. You listen.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Do you understand that?

GARCIA: I`m asking you right now because you have to answer.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Just tase him.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Back up, guys. Back up. Back up.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Back up.

GARCIA: Go ahead and tase me and you`ll see what happens.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Watch out. Watch out. Johnson, watch out.

GARCIA: No, no, no. Johnson, go ahead. Go ahead, Johnson. Go ahead, Johnson. Get the (BLEEP) out of here.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BANFIELD: So, the tasing story gets even more serious. Jabari, you really -- you could see everything. The one thing that`s not on the video is what

happened beforehand. Allegedly, the molesting of a passenger next to him, the fight with her boyfriend, and the racist comments. Can you fill those

blanks in a little bit? Tell us what happened.

JABARI ENNIS, RECORDED PLANE INCIDENT: Sure, I can try, and thank you for having me, Ashleigh. So, basically, he started out in an agitated state.

I think when we saw him, he was in a seat close to the front of the plane, and to your point, the girlfriend was sitting across from him, and he was

continuing to try to speak to her and make passes at her in front of her boyfriend. By the way, the boyfriend was as big as Thor, so I`m surprised

he was that brave.

[19:40:12] But after a while, the flight attendant came because the boyfriend called the flight attendant to ask him to be removed from beside

him because he wouldn`t stop. And he got very argumentative with the flight attendant, and got very agitated, and was making a lot of racist

comments under his breath at the time, I couldn`t personally hear them, but a lot of other passengers did. So, the flight attendant tried to -- tried

to resolve the situation by moving him further back in the plane, which ended up being right beside me. And that`s when he started --

BANFIELD: And then, this is -- this is the scene we`re seeing play out beside you, and I only interrupt for a moment because I can see the police

officer pulling out his taser. And this became a big, big part of the story. There -- you saw him try to grab at the taser, and the taser went

off ten different times. Have a listen to this one part of your -- of your videotape, where you can see the tasing going on, and then, the reference

that the officers make to maybe he`s on something. Have a look.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You got him?

GARCIA: You think? So, I`m asking you now.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Woah! (BLEEP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Shit. Yo, dog.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Come up over here.

GARCIA: I just got tased, man. I have to ask. (INAUDIBLE) a little bit of that

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Go ahead. (INAUDIBLE)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I don`t know what he`s on, but that`s some strong shit.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BANFIELD: Well, it may have been that, or it may have also been -- I love that you`re smiling, Jabari. Was that you who said that?

ENNIS: One of them, yes.

BANFIELD: Well, apparently, one of the prongs may not have been touching him so while you see a minute of like (INAUDIBLE), and it seems like the

guy would be in pain, it may not have been quite as significant. But this tape continued to someone else`s cell phone video once they dragged him off

the plane, then, he`s now being dragged into the terminal where there`s a waiting golf cart. And even that presented a problem. Have a look at

this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GARCIA: I will sit, but if you do not push me down.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Sit.

GARCIA: Everyone`s hearing this?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Sit.

GARCIA: No, wait. I`m willing to sit, but if you guys will force me, I`m not going to do it. I mean, everybody here is seeing this. So --

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: They`re seeing what a piece of shit you are.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: You deserve it. You deserve it. Bye!

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BANFIELD: And that`s how that ended, except for the charges. And Jabari, hold for one second. Brian, I`m being told that these are not federal

charges. I assumed immediately. You`re on a plane, you do this stuff, you`re going down to the feds. Not the case here.

BRIAN CLAYPOOL, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Yes, I`m a little bit surprised, too, Ashleigh. I have probably an unpopular stance on what happened here. I

mean, I know he`s a bad guy and everything, but you heard him say at the end, look, don`t force me to do it and I won`t do it. And I just think

they`ve -- look at the tape right now you`re showing your viewers, they`re grabbing him by the neck. They were kind of choking him, pulling him

through by the neck, and your normal body reaction is to kind of defend yourself. So, I kind of feel like there should have been a little bit more

of a discussion, a little bit more dialogue, calm him down, and then, try to get him off the plane.

BANFIELD: Yes, I`m with you and I`m not. I hate this guy for what he`s doing. But also, I`m told that because the plane hadn`t taken off and it

hadn`t flown, that`s why it`s state charges. It`s going to be Florida charges. And once the plane flies, if you do that stuff in the air, then,

the Feds kick in. I got to cut it there. But by the way, Jabari Ennis, thank you for sharing the video and your perspective and your smile. I

appreciate it, and I hope you`re going to have a good flight next time around. And Brian Claypool, you can`t go anywhere.

Tonight, there are prosecutors in Tennessee who say it`s too early to tell if they`re going seek the death penalty against accused Waffle House

shooter Travis Reinking. And that they are talking with federal authorities about bringing potential hate crime charges against him.

Rethinking his spending a second night in jail after a Tennessee judge revoked the $2 million-bond that was granted when he was booked. Reinking

you`ll know was accused of killing four people at a National Waffle House on Sunday and of leading police on a 36-hour manhunt before his dramatic

capture. He is due back in court on May 7th. Back in just a moment.

[19:45:00] (COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BANFIELD: Some people seem to get special treatment. You probably know somebody in that category, right? But you probably don`t know anybody like

Brooke Skylar Richardson. She`s the 19-year-old former cheerleader accused of giving birth after prom and then, quickly burying that new-born baby

right in her family`s backyard. That brought her a very serious charge, aggravated murder. And for over eight months now, she`s been out on bond,

a very touchy subject, too, for people in the community. Some of whom have shown up outside of her court appearances protesting. When prosecutors

asked for a million dollars bond, the judge instead set it at 50,000. And she ponied up and she`s been out ever since.

[19:50:06] While awaiting trial, she`s been allowed to hang out at her home. You can see her here in the yard with her dog, and now her bond

condition is changing again. She`s been given even more freedom. A judge has just decided that she can now leave the house and kind of do whatever

she wants between the hours of 7:00 a.m. and 9:00 p.m. This is a young woman suspected of murder, walking free, like the young woman she was going

to be before she allegedly killed her baby. And again, that`s allegedly. Still a trial to go through. But now, we don`t even know when that court

date will be, but she`s out there somewhere at the grocery store, all the places you might be. With me now Defense Attorney Bryan Claypool. So, how

does that happen?

CLAYPOOL: Ashleigh, I thought you were all about constitutional rights. Come on, what happened? Did you have --

BANFIELD: Not for aggravated murder.

CLAYPOOL: Did you -- did you have a -- did -- was the canary or the dove with the constitutional rights, too, vanished? But .

BANFIELD: No, it`s not about that. And you and I both well know that, yes, you have a constitutional right to post bond, but there are some

people for which the flight risk is too grave, and that`s why usually people who are going up on murder charges don`t get bond. Phil Spector

being one of the guys who did. But almost nobody else. Why her?

CLAYPOOL: Because she has strong -- the court decided she has strong ties to the community, she`s not a flight risk, she has appeared at all of her

hearings, she`s cooperated, and she`s also going to be subject, Ashleigh, to random drug tests, random home visits, and she`s going to have to wear a

GPS monitor at all times. So, the court weighed all that and felt like this was a fair resolution.

BANFIELD: So, I guess I want to ask about weighing the community`s sensibilities as well because already there were people frustrated or

thought it was special treatment that she got to stay at home instead of a cell. You know, Casey Anthony was in iso for the entire time before she

was exonerated, right? She was acquitted.

CLAYPOOL: Yes.

BANFIELD: But Brooke now will be out at the -- you know, at the safeway and everywhere else. And I`m wondering if the community has a right here

as well?

CLAYPOOL: I mean, that`s a good point, but I think what`s happening here, Ashleigh, is the judge probably looked at her age, for example. She`s

young, maybe she`s dealing with some issues, you know, as a 19-year-old. And my guess is that the judge actually gave her a little bit more of a

hall pass, especially with the $50,000 initial bond you mentioned. That`s pretty ridiculous. But I think age and maturity level played into the

court doing this. And you know, as well as I do, the rules are not always cut and dry when it comes to this.

BANFIELD: Boy, I`ll say, you know, she comes from a family of means, and so a lot of people would say that`s special treatment you and I were just

talking about, the -- you know, the cozy, home, you know, home bed and all the rest. They could have well afforded that perhaps $1 million bond or

that would have been -- look, $1million is a lot for everybody, but that would have absolutely prevented a flight, right? But 50,000 might be a

drop in the bucket.

CLAYPOOL: Right.

BANFIELD: So why would a million-dollar request be reduced to a $50,000 bond?

CLAYPOOL: You raise another good point a lot of people don`t like to talk about which is, you know, politics playing a part in our judicial system.

Affluence playing a part in our judicial system. I mean, I`ll go out on a limb and say this, had she come from a very low-income family, maybe from

an immigrant family, maybe she doesn`t get this treatment that she`s getting in a small town in Ohio.

BANFIELD: Result might be different. Yes, result might be different. Brian, don`t go anywhere. We still have other things for you -- for you to

do and for you to stay, so hold that thought. Because monkey see, monkey sued, and now there is finally a decision on who owns this world`s famous

selfies that always makes you laugh, and that always makes my kids laugh, too. It`s "ONE MORE THING" straight ahead.

[19:55:00] (COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BANFIELD: "ONE MORE THING" for you tonight, there was no monkeying around when a Federal Court of Appeals made a big decision on a little guy, the

guy you`re looking at, and who owns the copyright of this world famous selfie. They ruled that it belongs to the photographer named David Slater,

even though the photographer didn`t actually push the button and take the photo. Naruto, the crested-macaque monkey actually took the photo because

he was playing with Slater`s unattended camera in the forest when he snapped his own selfie in Indonesia and his big smile. But because Naruto

is a monkey and not a human being, it`s been ruled he has no standing. The United States courts for a copyright claim. So sorry, fellow. I hope you

keep smiling, though. I think Naruto knows nothing about this. Let`s just be personal.

We`ll see you back here tomorrow night 6:00 Eastern. Thanks so much for watching, everybody. "FORENSIC FILES" begins right now.

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