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Crime and Justice With Ashleigh Banfield
Latest on Chris Watts Case; Beautiful Pregnant Postal Worker Vanishes; Accused Girlfriend-Killer Gets Bloody Mugshot; Helping Afghan and Iraqi Interpreters. Aired 6-8p ET
Aired October 11, 2018 - 18:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[18:00:00] (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: He didn`t just attack a woman.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Certainly can`t be tolerated.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: She said he strangled her till she passed out.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Just can`t have that.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: And defiled her in a sickening way.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Not even close.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Before heading home to the wife and kids.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This can never happen.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: But now he is getting off in more ways than one.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Mr. Schneider`s going to be a member of our community.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Because he walked out of court a free man. Instead of heading to jail.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We`re all surprised that masturbating on somebody is not a sex crime under Alaska law. It`s considered the same as spitting on
somebody.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Does a guy who is facing 99 years really deserve a pass?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I mean, I`d just like to emphasize how grateful I am for this process.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Wait till you hear how he beat the rap.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: That would be consistent with a knife going in this way.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: You`ve seen it before. Famous suspected killers asked to re-enact their actions for a jury.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: He went like that, he turned his head --
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The victim`s loved ones forced to watch.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Something like this, straddled him.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Is this something Chris Watts may end up doing?
CHRISTIAN WATTS, HUSBAND OF SHANANN WATTS, SUSPECT: I mean, has she just taken off? I don`t know.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Will the man accused of killing his family --
BELLA WATTS, DAUGHTER OF CHRIS AND SHANANN WATTS: Hi!
SHANANN WATTS, VICTIM, WIFE OF CHRIS WATTS: Hi! Aww, you guys are so cute.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Can the blame on his wife in court?
S. WATTS: He is the best thing that has ever happened to me.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: And just what would a jury make of it?
Plus --
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I miss the smile on her face.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The urgent search for a pretty young postal worker.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: So that kind of puzzled me.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: She vanished on her way to work.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: See her in a post office uniform, still right there, and she crossed the street.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Only she just called in sick.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Maybe something did happen.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: So why was she enroot in uniform?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: She seen something that made her turn around and turn across the street.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: And where did this pregnant mom to be earned up?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I don`t want to say it.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: So, who would do something like this? I don`t know.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ASHLEIGH BANFIELD, HOST, HLN CRIME AND JUSTICE: Good evening everyone. I`m Ashleigh Banfield. This is "Crime and Justice." And you have heard it
before. Does the punishment fit the crime? Because in this country there`s a variety of both punishments and crimes, but there aren`t many
cases as mismatched as the one I`m about to bring you. I want you to meet Justin Schneider.
Justin Schneider, commit that face to memory. Father, husband, air traffic controller in Alaska. And something else. A guy who happened to stop at a
gas station last year, where he met a woman. According to investigators, he offered to give that woman a ride. Because she was en-route to her
boyfriend`s, but Schneider made a little pit stop along the way, pulling over near a parked car, asking the woman to get out, tackling her, putting
her in a choke hold, threatening to kill her, then squeezing her throat until she passed out.
And when she came to, he was standing over her, straddling her body, and his pants were unzipped and there was something wet on her face. For which
he kindly offered her a tissue. But when he drove off and left her like that, that brave and courageous woman got a good long look at his license
plate. Which would later help police track him down. Track down that sick attacker and hit him with a walloping kidnapping and assault. And not just
assault. You think sexual assault, but you`d be wrong.
Because in the state of Alaska, it is not a sexual offense to masturbate on the face of someone you just choked out. And if that is not enough, Justin
Schneider, there he is in court, was just granted a sweetheart of a deal. Admitting he was only guilty of one pesky little count of second-degree
assault. Every single thing against him otherwise was dropped. Including that pesky misdemeanor of ejaculating onto the woman`s unconscious face.
All told, a two-year sentence. One of them suspended. And since he spent the last year at home with his wife and kids just wearing an ankle monitor,
well, the Judge constituted that as a year of time. So technically he was done. He served his time. And he walked out the backdoor of that
courtroom not one day spent in jail.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
[18:05:05] UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I would just like to emphasize how grateful I am for this process. It has given me a year to really work on myself and
become a better person and a better husband and a better father, and I`m very eager to continue that journey.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BANFIELD: I am not sure I can stomach what I just heard. He spent a year working on yourself, making yourself a better person, better husband,
better father? Did you reach out to the woman? The woman you did that to? Did you fix her life? Have you done anything to make amends? And how is
freedom? You`re not eyeballing anybody else at a gas station, are you? Ladies, I warn you, if you`re in Alaska, get a good long look at that guy`s
face. Because he may not have gotten justice in a courtroom like the rest of us think he should have, but he can get a little media justice. He can
get a little viral justice. Who knows if this guy`s viral?
I can tell you one thing, we know what he did. We know what those eyes were capable of. We know what he said. We know what he did. It was a
loophole. He got out. He is free. He is walking on your sidewalk. Maybe by your daughter`s school. He is out there. Justin Scott Schneider. And
I hope to hell everyone watching tonight takes a clip of this broadcast and puts it out on the internet so that it goes even more viral. And everybody
everywhere remembers that man`s face.
Reporter Danielle Rivera of CNN affiliate KTVA joins me now. Also Elizabeth Williams, is a social worker, she is organizing an effort to oust
Judge Corey. Also "Live P.D." co-host and crime analyst Tom Morris Jr. is with us to analyze the case tonight. And trial attorney Ashley Willcott
joins me live as well.
I need to get off the ledge on this one. I have rarely been this angry about a case that we`ve covered. And lots of things make me angry, some of
the cases are so outrageous. To see this kind of injustice? Call it what you will, you can break down the law any damn way you want to, you can give
me any reason in the book the prosecutor couldn`t figure this one out and the judge just let him go, let him not figure it out, let him just
prosecute nothing, but that guy`s walking the streets.
That woman, god knows where she is, god knows how ruined she is. And any other women who may come into his path since he is only 34 and presumably
has a lot of living years left. Better beware. Daniela Rivera, as a reporter on this case, following this case, is there something I am
missing? Is there some -- please tell me there`s something I`m missing, because none of this is satisfying.
DANIELLA RIVERA, REPORTER, CNN AFFILIATE KTVA: Well, you pretty much summed it up. That is exactly what happened. We were in the courtroom.
He walked out that door before I did. And what we`re hearing from experts here in Alaska, from our governor, is that our reporting of Mr. Schneider`s
plea deal has exposed a loophole in Alaska state law. And that is that for at least a decade, causing someone to have unwanted contact with semen has
not been considered a sex offense. He was charged with kidnaping, he was charged with assault, and he was charged with harassment, unwanted contact
with fluids. None of those sexual offenses.
BANFIELD: So, Ashley Willcott, as the lawyer here, you are going to help me navigate how the hell he even needed a plea deal. It sounded to me,
like this poor victim had the wherewithal and the bravery and the smarts to record that license plate and all of the details of what happened to her
and give that report from the E.R. After she called 911.
And lo and behold all the evidence they gathered afterwards matched everything she said, which tells me she is an impeccable witness, and that
tells me there`s impeccable evidence, and I don`t know why you need a plea deal on something like that.
ASHLEY WILLCOTTT, TRIAL ATTORNEY: Well, I don`t know either. I agree with you, Ashleigh. The thing is, it is corroborating evidence. When you have
that evidence, you should be able to prosecute those crimes. So, I`m very surprised he basically got a sweetheart deal, a great plea, where he didn`t
have to plea to the things the prosecution might have been able to prove. Now, I do wonder if the prosecution expected him to actually get jail time
and he didn`t, I don`t know.
BANFIELD: Well, all I can say is that the Judge seemed to have his hands tied. And in the summary of all of this the Judge looked to the
prosecutor, trusting that the prosecutor had everything he could have and couldn`t get a conviction, therefore had to rely on a plea deal. But I`m
just going to read to you some of the criminal complaint. Because this is pretty damn strong evidence, if you ask me.
The man immediately and violently grabbed her neck in a front choke hold with both hands and told her if she screamed he`d kill her. She could not
fight him off. He was too heavy. And he had her down, being choked to dead. She thought she was going to die. And the man told her he was going
to kill her. She could not fight him off. He was too heavy. And he had her down, being choked to death.
[18:10:07] So that sounds pretty damn strong in terms of, you know, a description of what was happening, but not only that, she goes on did say -
- I`m going to ask the control room to give me that screen number too. Because this part is so graphic and so offensive, to not think there`s a
sexual offense in here somewhere in Alaska law is appalling. His penis was out. This is as soon as she had regained consciousness. He was not
wearing a condom and he put his penis back into his pants, which were on that his zipper was unzipped, until he zipped himself back up.
As she sat up trying to regain bearings she noticed her face was wet. The man told her that he wasn`t really going to kill her, that he needed her to
believe she was going to die so that he could be sexually fulfilled and ejaculate. Tom Morris Jr., as a law enforcement man, what am I missing?
TOM MORRIS JR., FORMER D.C. SPECIAL POLICE OFFICER: Nothing, Ashleigh. This man should be going to jail for a long time for this crime. But
Alaska is a frontier state in a lot of ways still. The fact that that is not illegal under their laws in Alaska shows how different things are up
there. He should have been convicted in any of the other 49 states for this crime, but instead he gets to walk.
BANFIELD: And you know, again, the judge looking at these prosecutors saying, well, you know, you know the case well. And I have to go on the
fact that you believe you can`t get a full prosecution and a conviction in this, thereby you have to resort to that pesky old plea deal. And that is
exactly what this Judge did. Let me let you hear from the prosecutor, Andrew Grannik. And I want you to listen carefully specifically to how he
refers to this defendant, this sexually deviant freak who choked a woman out into unconsciousness and ejaculated on her face before leaving her in
the ditch. I want you to listen to how the prosecutor refers to that man in court. Have a look.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ANDREW GRANNIK, ASSISTANT DISTRICT ATTORNEY: I hope it doesn`t happen. That is the reason why I made the deal that I`ve made. Because I have
reasonable expectations that it won`t happen, but I would like the gentleman to be on notice that that is his one pass. It`s not really a
pass, but given the conduct, one might consider that it is.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BANFIELD: I have two issues. The gentleman? I hope that the gentleman is on notice? The gentleman? Is that because he handed his victim a tissue?
After what he did? Is that why he is a gentleman? Again, ladies and gentlemen of Alaska and everywhere else south of Alaska, including Canada,
Justin Scott Schneider. Height 6`5", weight approximately 200. You get a clear look at his smiling mug right there. Avoid this man at all costs.
He is no gentleman. I don`t care what the prosecutor has to say. And the second issue, Ashley Willcott, is he says it`s his one pass. Then he
corrects himself, not really a pass, but he said it. He said it`s his one pass. What the hell does a pass have to do with any of this?
WILLCOTT: It shouldn`t. Keep in mind our justice system is there to punish and deter. The outcome of this means he was not punished and
there`s no deterrence for anyone else doing it. He is going to do it again, but guess what, somebody else who might have the same sexual
proclivity that is a horrific crime might do the same thing. There is no such thing as a pass.
BANFIELD: The man who said he needed her to believe she was dying in order to get off. We don`t think he is going to do that again?
MORRIS JR.: He might. There`s another element to this too. She was a Native American woman. And he is obviously a white male. In Alaska,
Native American women are 42 percent more likely to be victims of sexual assault and domestic violence than women in the other 49 states. And this
is why so many women do not come forward, because of travesties like this, and they`re not believed, and they`re not taken seriously by the system
that should be protecting them.
BANFIELD: Does make me wonder if that made any difference in terms of the value of her word. I mean, honestly, watching the Kavanaugh hearings, the
value of a woman`s word is not equal to a man`s. Because when they`re body brilliant, and they both have incredible backgrounds, it`s he said/she
said, well, hat tipped to the dude. It seems that may have been what happened here.
But Elizabeth Williams, is social worker and a volunteer rape counselor, and someone who`s organizing the effort to oust this Judge, am I to believe
that that is what the issue was here? That the prosecutor said, it`s a he said/she said so we just don`t have enough evidence, don`t ask me why a
woman`s word isn`t evidence when it corroborates with all of the other evidence they found, but is that what happened here? You got a guy who
says one thing and a girl who says another, so points go to the guy. Can`t convict him.
[18:15:00] ELIZABETH WILLIAMS, SOCIAL WORKER: So, I think this case was a case of pure and simple laziness. I think the prosecutor was too lazy. He
said that he couldn`t contact the victim, but if you look at what he did, he made one phone call, he sent one letter. He admitted that he could have
used law enforcement to contact her, but he chose not to. It was pure and simple laziness. And the judge was too lazy to hold the prosecutor to a
higher level of conduct. And didn`t insist that he contact the victim.
BANFIELD: So let me get this straight. We still -- I mean, I appreciate that, and that is appalling on its own, but Elizabeth, this woman already
did an extraordinary job by getting that license plate, preserving the evidence, going to the E.R., meeting with not one, not two, but three
officers who responded, giving a full and thick and robust statement filled with specifics and details about this man.
WILLIAMS: Right.
BANFIELD: The description. You never forget the man`s face, she pointed him out in a lineup. What more did they want from her, what more did they
need from her?
WILLIAMS: And she also went through an exam where DNA was collected, she gave up the tissue which had his DNA on it, there was everything in this
case. Do you want the state labeled her? An unreliable or uncooperative witness.
BANFIELD: And that is because after this incredible cooperation, that one phone call and that one letter didn`t yield an appearance? Is that it?
WILLIAMS: Exactly.
BANFIELD: I`ve got to be honest, if someone had tried to call me or e-mail me once, I wouldn`t know about it. We get busy, we travel, we have
children. But you know. It`s a mobile society. Would I be an uncooperative and unreliable witness by those standards?
WILLIAMS: It seems like it. I think you can`t ignore race. This was an Alaska native woman. I think that she was labeled uncooperative and
unreliable because of her race. And I think Schneider was labeled a gentleman and an exception and a good candidate for rehabilitation.
BANFIELD: Gentleman. I nearly threw up -- I nearly threw up when I heard a prosecutor call a man like that a gentleman. Put up this image again.
The gentleman according to the prosecutor who I think should be more considered, according to other laws, more like a rapist. He should be,
according to the law, thought of as a rapist, as a violent and nearly murderous rapist. But the law doesn`t say so. The law gives this guy a
break. And the judge gave him a big break. Judge Michael Corey, I want you to hear what he said at sentencing just so you get a feel for how the
judge felt about the prosecutor`s extraordinary job.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The actions that occurred simply can`t be tolerated. We just can`t have that. Not even close. I think it speaks volumes that
an individual such as Mr. Grannik is advocating for the acceptance of what at first blush would really quite frankly strike me as way too light a
sentence. I think that I would consider, quite frankly this result an outlier. You don`t come across this fact pattern this set of
circumstances, very often at all.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BANFIELD: Judge, listen close. If you think, as you said, that these actions that occurred simply can`t be tolerated, your quote, then why did
you tolerate it? Because you, sir, tolerated it. You took whatever that prosecutor handed you. And by the way, I have all the same stuff you have.
I wouldn`t have and I`m nowhere near your level. I have all the same material and information that you have. And I would have said to that
prosecutor, why isn`t this woman`s word strong evidence? It seems to be corroborated with all the other evidence. It seems to me she is an
incredible witness. Why wouldn`t that be strong enough for a prosecution, judge? It`s a good thing that judges are elected, because that means that
judges can be unelected.
Coming up next, crime re-enactments have swayed juries in the past, but will Chris Watts be the next one to have a famous re-enactment of his
version of events in a Colorado courtroom?
[18:20:00] (COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BANFIELD: Seeing your loved one`s killer. That is got to be up there with just about the thing you never want to see. And maybe even higher on that
list, seeing your loved one`s killer re-enact the killing. Now Chris Watts has not been convicted of murdering his pregnant wife and two baby
daughters, but the police say he did it. They say he killed all three of them. Before hiding their bodies at his worksite. Then just telling
everybody they were off missing somewhere. So it got us asking, if right now he is preparing to strike down that storyline in court with a sickening
re-enactment of his version of events, one that makes his wife the monster, and all the people she left behind, the family, the friends, the co-
workers, could be forced to sit and watch while Chris Watts re-enacts the morning when he says he discovered that wife, Shanann, killing their kids.
[18:25:05] I want to bring in crime journalist, Pat Lalama, who joins Tom Morris Jr. and Ashley Willcott are still with me. Pat Lalama, I want you
to just weigh in on this. You and I have covered enough crimes to see re- enactment after re-enactment in court. Do you think this is going to be one of those?
PAT LALAMA, GUEST HOST, HLN CRIME AND JUSTICE: Let me put it to you this way, dear friend and colleague. If this man, Chris Watts, or anyone who
defends him, has the, you know what`s to get up there and try to re-enact this story, I am telling you that is like throwing fresh meat to a lion.
Think about that abominable display of deception when he gave the local news interviews. Lie after lie after lie. And unless for some reason his
defenders think he is absolutely innocent and telling the truth, all he would do is give the prosecution so much fodder to -- it would bury him,
Ashleigh, no way is this going to happen. I`ll bet you my next -- I don`t know, I`ll bet you a beer.
BANFIELD: I would take that beer after segment a, because I am so angry still from the Alaskan -- I call it a rape story even though the law
doesn`t agree.
LALAMA: He is still an air traffic controller, by the way, that is what I want to know.
BANFIELD: We`re going to call on that. Is he not? No, he got canned.
LALAMA: Does he still have a wife? I`d like to know that too. Does he still have a wife?
BANFIELD: Apparently so. Tom, I`ll let you say something about that.
MORRIS JR.: You know --
BANFIELD: Still has a wife.
MORRIS JR.: He still has a wife. And he is still going to find a job somewhere. He is going to go on and live his life. And I really, really
don`t believe that this was an abomination in his behavior.
BANFIELD: You think it`s normal?
MORRIS JR.: I suspect that he may have done this before and he never got caught.
BANFIELD: We also say that Camille Cosby is still with Bill Cosby, even though all of it. All the (inaudible), sometimes they stand by their man.
But we`re on this different block even though my head is still just popping right off. So, Pat, I wanted to bring up an example of a case we covered,
Jodi Arias.
LALAMA: Right.
BANFIELD: There was a liar extraordinaire, she couldn`t open her mouth without a filthy lie coming out. And she did the re-enactment, and we
pulled the tape, have a look.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Show me the posture of Mr. Alexander immediately before he rushed you, according to you.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: As he was --
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No just show me. That is what I`m asking you to do. Not talk. Show me. Show me the linebacker pose.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: He got down --
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Show me. Show me the linebacker pose. That is what I`m asking for you to do.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Ok. He went like that, he turned his head and grabbed my waist.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Just like that, correct?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Pretty much.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He grabbed your waist, right?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I can`t say it`s just like that, but that is what I pretty much --
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I want -- without talking, just show me the pose.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: He got down like that.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Like that, all right, go ahead and have a seat, then.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BANFIELD: It didn`t turn out so well for her, did it, Ashley.
WILLCOTT: No, did not turn out for her well at all, but listen, I hope the re-enactment does happen. This is exactly what`s going to happen if
there`s re-enactment. When you lie and make up stories you can`t re-enact, because you have nothing to re-enact, you`re making it up the entire time.
So that is why I hope that Chris Watts chooses to re-enact this, just like Jodi Arias says, she is now in jail for her conviction.
BANFIELD: Because he is by all accounts one of the worst actors I`ve ever seen. That day, remember, did you watch him on the porch that day? Every
single person on my team, we`re pretty skilled at looking at those who are in distress after something happens. We all looked at him and said, I
smell a rat. Right away.
MORRIS JR.: If they hired Steven Spielberg to direct this re-enactment and Matthew McConaughey to play this man, a jury still would convict.
BANFIELD: Because he was just such a liar on the porch, right?
MORRIS JR.: Absolutely.
BANFIELD: Once a liar, always a liar.
MORRIS JR.: Also strangulation is a crime of immediate rage. Immediate, spontaneous rage. You don`t have time to get a knife, you don`t have time
to get a gun. That is what tells me that his story about him finding her strangling the daughter is just absolute baloney.
BANFIELD: By the way, we were all spit balling as we do, we are almost like a group of detectives on our program, we`re thinking, if she is --
every one of us who is has kids has leaned over the crib, and look after the kid and you`re blocking the view. When you`re reaching over it`s
pretty damn hard to see what`s happening in that crib. So it would be another really sticky little point, I think, for his defense attorney, to
get past. I want to show this other one. Because I know everybody watching right now, I know you are all so keen with crime history and the
most famous of re-enactments in the courtroom. And sure enough you`re already guessing that I`m going to play that moment of the Susan Wright
trial.
Susan Wright, who stabbed her husband about 200 times, his name is Jeffrey Wright. The prosecutor in that court dragged their marital bed into the
courtroom, and she, the prosecutor, climbed up on another prosecutor who played the victim and straddled him on the bed and then, well, watch, take
a look at what it looks like.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The defendant were to get up on top of Jeffrey Wright (ph), something like this, and straddle him. And she`s right-handed. And
how do you think she held the knife? That would be consistent with the knife going in this way.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Correct.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Vertical, not this way horizontal.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Correct.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: And it is a more natural fit in your hand to do it this way as opposed to this way.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes, ma`am.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: OK, if I`m on top of Paul (ph) and I`m holding the knife this way in my right hand and I attack at the head area first, which
side of his face or most of the injuries going to be on?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: On the left side.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: On his left side, which is right here, is that right?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: That`s correct.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: OK. And most of the injuries were where?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Concentrated on the left side.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BANFIELD: Yeah, Pat Lalama, didn`t work out so well for her either, she was put away for life. And I kept thinking, I`m not sure if it was the
prosecutor or one of those kids in the office who got picked for victim, you know. But I would not have wanted to be in that position because that
video has played over and over and over as one of the more astounding moments in a courtroom.
PAT LALAMA, CRIME JOURNALIST: Well, it was very visual and very effective. But remember, it was a prosecutor who was telling, essentially as we know
now, because of a conviction, the truth about what happened. But like Ashleigh stated and what I was trying to say is, if you`re a veritable liar
and you are trying to get up there and convince someone visually that, oh, this is how it happened, hey, guess what, I want to see a baby monitor up
there.
BANFIELD: Yeah.
LALAMA: I want to see some dolls, you know, positioned. A woman going after one of them.
BANFIELD: I`m with you.
LALAMA: It`s not going to happen.
BANFIELD: Well, then, I hope, Pat Lalama, for the sake of justice and truth, that they actually play the clip from our show, because we did that
show intel with the baby monitor and it was next to impossible to see the thimble-sized face, not even, smaller than that, almost the head of a pin,
that would have been a very difficult prospect. But that does bring me --
LALAMA: Let`s submit it to the prosecution.
BANFIELD: Well, I`m just reporting on it. I`m not actually going to litigate this thing.
(LAUGHTER)
BANFIELD: But Ashley Willcott, it does bring up a good point, what Pat Lalama says, that the prosecutor did that reenactment and it went very well
to the prosecutor, did not go well for the defendant. Jodi Arias was the defendant doing her own reenactment and that did not go well. So does it
really matter who it is doing the acting?
ASHLEY WILLCOTT, TRIAL ATTORNEY: I don`t think so at all. And I think that Chris Watts, whether he did or not, no, I do not think it matters because
they`re reenacting exactly what the person says happened. And the reenactment will show you whether or not it was possible that that actually
happened.
BANFIELD: I`ve never felt like these reenactments or go-sees -- you know when they take a jury on a site, they do a jury view of -- O.J.`s house,
they did a jury view of O.J.`s house. Years after the fact. They re-staged the whole thing. Taken all the photos down. I`ve always felt that`s
actually pejorative. It`s not fair, it`s not probative because it`s not the same.
It`s not the same as when you show up on a crime scene. It looks, feels, and smells entirely different than it does a week later and two years
later.
TOM MORRIS JR., FORMER DC SPECIAL POLICE OFFICER: Well, with this case, the diabolical way he got rid of the bodies, putting the two girls into an
oil tank and burying the wife in a shallow grave 40 miles from his house, that also says to a jury that this man could have, if the story went the
way he said, immediately called the police and said, I caught my wife strangling my daughter, I strangled her, I`m calling you right now.
He didn`t do that. He went a whole different direction to cover up this crime. And a jury, even if you reenact what he says happened, a jury is
going to see through that.
BANFIELD: So that would require the jurors to be reasonable? Like Tom Morris Jr.
(LAUGHTER)
BANFIELD: It`s why you`re a big star.
MORRIS: We know juries are unpredictable.
BANFIELD: Because you`re reasonable and you get it. But juries are unpredictable, damn right. We`ve always got that one juror who doesn`t even
know what reasonable doubt means.
Just ahead, an entire city tonight is searching for a young and pregnant and beautiful postal worker who called out sick and then just disappeared.
But this young lady, this young lady, she left some clues behind.
[18:35:00] (COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BANFIELD: Tonight, there`s an urgent search for a gorgeous young pregnant woman in Chicago, but she has not been seen or heard from in over a week
and a half. In fact, the last time Kierra Coles was seen was on a typical Tuesday morning.
She was caught on a neighbor`s surveillance camera walking to work in her postal uniform. But when Kierra disappeared out of the frame of the camera,
that ended up being the last time she was ever seen. She never made it to the post office where she works. But here`s where things get bizarre. She
had reportedly just called in sick.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
KAREN PHILLIPS, MOTHER OF KIERRA COLES: I have no feeling. You know, it`s just hard. I don`t want to think the worst. I`m trying to stay positive,
but it`s just empty. I need for her to come home. Maybe something did happen where she was just overcome with a lot.
[18:40:00] You know, when you`re pregnant, you got emotions. So, you know, I want to just say she just went somewhere, didn`t want to see nobody, and
then she`ll just come home. But I don`t feel that.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BANFIELD: "Crime and Justice" producer Justin Freiman joins the team now along with Tom Morris Jr. and Ashley Willcott who are still with me here.
So Justin, this is weird. She seems to have been in the postal uniform, walking towards her car. Her keys or her purse at least and her cellphone
are in the car, but she walks past it.
JUSTIN FREIMAN, CRIME AND JUSTICE PRODUCER: That`s right. It`s over a week gone by, about a week and a half since this happened. And you`re right, the
reports are saying that her purse and her phone are locked inside the car. So the question is, why didn`t she go away in the car?
We see in that video that she`s walking and from all reports, she walks across the street. Her car is on the side of the street where we see her
walking right now. And yet for some reason, she crosses that street.
Was she going somewhere else? Did she see something and that spooked her and so she decided to cross over and keep going? We don`t know, but we know
that is the last time anybody has seen her.
BANFIELD: And of course the first thing that our viewers would want to see right now is -- well, show us the video of her putting the stuff in the
car. But this is someone`s neighborhood cam. And that happens out of frame. All we can tell you is that this is what you see, and the next evidence
that`s found is her car out of frame with her purse and her cellphone locked inside it, which again is bizarre.
Tom, can you even lock a door -- can you lock your keys to your car or your things inside it? I`m wondering if the keys to the car are outside the car
but the stuff is inside the car.
MORRIS: I suppose it`s possible. But I believe, like you said, that she saw someone that she went to go talk to and that`s why she walked away from
the car. And perhaps she was planning on leaving with someone. We just don`t know that. But I really think she was walking towards someone, as
opposed to maybe away from someone.
BANFIELD: So the police get called in on this, obviously. Look, her parents have said she doesn`t go a day without -- in fact, listen to her
mom. Her mom is Karen Phillips. And Kierra`s mom says that they were literally in contact at all times. Here`s how she put it.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
PHILLIPS: We talk all the time. If we miss one day, it`s just one day. Never four, five, six, seven, eight, nine days, never.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BANFIELD: And if anyone thinks she`s just off somewhere and doing something about this, this pregnancy, well, her dad really dispels that as
well. Have a listen to what her dad says. This is her father, Joseph Coles. Take a listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JOSEPH COLES, FATHER OF KIERRA COLES: Overjoyed. I miss the smile on her face. If anybody know anything, please, call in. Let us know. We love her,
we miss her.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BANFIELD: OK. Tom Morris Jr., she`s overjoyed to be having a baby. Her mom talks to her all the time. This is abnormal behavior. You`re the officer
dispatched on this case, who are you looking at? How do you fan out? What did you do?
MORRIS: She`s pregnant. You`re always going to look at who the father of that child is first. You`re also going to look at any other people she may
have been in contact with on a daily basis basis, on social media, any other men she may have been involved with. Maybe she did have female
enemies that we`re unaware of.
BANFIELD: That`s a good point.
MORRIS: It`s not always a man that does this, that makes a woman disappear or something like that. But I would also say having worked on the case of
the three girls that were found in the house in Cleveland, the family should not expect the worst in this case. You never know how these cases
are going to end up. She could very well be alive and being held somewhere and she can be found.
BANFIELD: Yeah. Elizabeth Smart as well.
MORRIS: Absolutely.
BANFIELD: Nine months later, there she was.
MORRIS: Worked on that case.
BANFIELD: We covered many of these. I mean, god, woman who was kept in the shipping container for -- what was it, Justin, two months, three months? I
can`t even remember, but it was a horrifying case.
FREIMAN: She is chained up in there, yeah.
BANFIELD: She was chained inside that container. Kala Brown! Was her name Kala Brown?
FREIMAN: I believe so.
BANFIELD: Kala Brown. Just off the top of my head. I`m trying to remember the number of days, but it was interminable how long she was in that
container. Here`s the other odd part. She`s in the uniform. This is the detective part I`m trying to get out of you. She`s in her uniform but
called out sick, as a Canadian, called in sick.
She called out sick. She`s got what looks like either a purse or postal bag. She`s got that uniform on, but she`s called out sick. So, where do you
factor those facts into this?
MORRIS: Well, it makes you wonder what her intent was when she left home. Did she intend to go to work even though she had initially called in and
said, I`m sick, I don`t want to come to work today? Did she change her mind and decide she was going to work anyway and just show up? We don`t know.
BANFIELD: She may be. You spitball everything. None of this is fair. It`s not fair to the father who immediately has eyeballs all over him, right,
because he could be so innocent. The Smarts will tell you that. The eyeballs were all over the Smart family. They were not.
But you also might have to look at her. Was she maybe going off to see somebody who maybe her boyfriend wouldn`t have wanted her to see? I`m off
to work, sweetheart, in my postal uniform, but tells work she`s not. You have to look at all of those factors and I guess go from there.
MORRIS: Every angle.
[18:45:00] BANFIELD: As unfair as they all seem to all parties concerned, that`s what it takes to try and solve it. There you have her information,
everybody. Take a look. Kierra Coles, 27, just a stunner, and just so mystifying, that disappearance. We`ll see what we can get out of that in
the days to come.
In the meantime, a murder, a wild highway pursuit, and then this. That`s a mugshot for the ages. How do you think he got that way? You`re going to
find out, next.
[18:50:00] (COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BANFIELD: Sometimes a mugshot is worth a thousand words and there is always a bigger story behind the picture. Trust me. Just take a look at
this one. Kenneth Nolin. Police say this 33-year-old charmer led them on a wild chase in Michigan on a highway.
He crashed, he jumped out of his car, and then he just let loose with the bullets, firing at the police, and a fast-thinking officer slammed into
Nolin with his cruiser, sending him flying.
But why was Nolin on the run in the first place? Police say he killed his 27-year-old girlfriend, Tia May Randall, a mother of two. Her children were
at school when Nolin allegedly shot her once in the head at home. Nolin spent a week in the hospital, in this condition.
A judge has told him that he could face life behind bars if he`s convicted. But to add insult to injury in all of this, Nolin is trying to make himself
out to be the victim in court, claiming police brutality. And he says he wants to pursue charges against the people, I guess, he was shooting at.
Tom Morris and Ashley Willcott are still with me. It`s another one, get me off the ledge. He`s shooting at the police. They return with some kind of
deadly action. That would be the cruiser, and he wants to charge them?
MORRIS: When you`re firing at the police, all bets are off. They don`t teach you in the police academy to hit a suspect with your car, but we have
seen it happen before to stop a threat. It happened three years ago in Arizona.
There was a guy who was on a one-day crime spree, torched the church, robbed 7/11, stole a rifle out of Walmart and was confronting police when
an officer just used his cruiser to ram him and stop him. Didn`t kill him but stop the threat. That`s what you have to do.
BANFIELD: What`s the difference between the force from your cruiser, Ashley, and the force from your gun if you are engaging with someone who is
in a deadly -- who is engaging in deadly behavior?
WILLCOTT: Right. Legally definition wise, there`s no difference. It`s deadly force, whether it`s` your cruiser or your gun. And I want to say,
oh, please. Really? He`s just defensive, trying to get the attention off him because he killed his girlfriend.
There`s no deadly force that was used inappropriately. If you look at the video, you already mentioned, it just looks like he did get hit but he
wasn`t run down necessarily.
BANFIELD: Can I ask you a question? Can we put the mugshot up again? That`s really the sort of the money shot in all of this. Can he actually
milk this and suggests, I shouldn`t look like this. All I did was fire my gun at police a few times.
WILLCOTT: I think that`s what he`s going to try to do. Any defendant in that position might try to do that. I don`t think it has any merit. I don`t
think that`s going to warrant -- that`s not bad considering the injuries that could have happened to him for shooting at police officers.
BANFIELD: Right. I have to be honest with you. I guess when you look at it, the charges that he`s facing, open murder, using a firearm in the
commission of a felony. Kind of dwarfs any sort of civil action or criminal action he wants to take against the police for messing up his face --
WILLCOTT: Absolutely.
BANFIELD: -- and banging him around on the highway.
WILLCOTT: He is alive. He could have been dead after shooting at law enforcement.
BANFIELD: Lucky star. He is alive and maybe he`ll be able to live out that life behind bars. How about that? All right, guys. Hold on, if you will. I
will have you back in a second.
In Alaska, a judge in a tough reelection campaign now, after a kidnapping suspect is not sent off to prison after a sexual assault that apparently
wasn`t a sexual assault. Sure looked like it. Guy pleads guilty, gets a sweetheart of a deal after masturbating on an unconscious woman. How in
god`s name could that judge have let it happen?
[18:55:00] (COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BANFIELD: Afghan and Iraqi interpreters are critical, critical for our troops who are serving in the Middle East. And those interpreters put
themselves and their families at risk, a lot. This week`s CNN hero is an army vet whose mission it is to bring those interpreters to safety. Meet
Matt Zeller.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MATT ZELLER, CNN HERO: Afghan and Iraqi translators are proud patriots who signed up to defend their country and to help us with our mission. We owe
these people a great debt of gratitude, to feel like they have been honored for their sacrifice.
Welcome home. Welcome.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Thanks for everything.
ZELLER: Thank you.
We also owe them a chance at a new and better life that we promised them in exchange for that service.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BANFIELD: For more on the story and more on CNN heroes, go to CNNHeroes.com.
The next hour of "Crime & Justice" starts right now.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE (voice-over): He didn`t just attack a woman.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Certainly can`t be tolerated.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE (voice-over): She said he strangled her until she passed out.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Just can`t have that.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE (voice-over): And defiled her in a sickening way.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Not even close.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE (voice-over): Before heading home to the wife and kids.
[19:00:00] UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This can never happen.
ASHLEIGH BANFIELD, HLN, HOST: But now he`s getting off in more ways than one.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Without his piece, one pass.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Mr. Schneider`s going to be a member of our community.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BANFIELD: Because he walked out of court a free man. Instead of heading to jail.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We`re all surprised that masturbating on somebody is not a sex crime under Alaska law. It`s considered the same as spitting on
somebody.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BANFIELD: Does a guy who is facing 99 years really deserve a pass?
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JUSTIN SCHNEIDER: I mean, I`d just like to emphasize how grateful I am for this process.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BANFIELD: wait till you hear how he beat the rap.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: That would be consistent with a knife going in this way.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BANFIELD: You`ve seen it before. Famous suspected killers asked to re- enact their actions for a jury.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: He went like that, he turned his head --
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BANFIELD: The victim`s loved ones forced to watch.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Something like this, straddled him.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BANFIELD: Is this something Chris Watts may end up doing?
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CHRIS WATTS, SUSPECT: I mean, if she`s (INAUDIBLE), because she just taken off? I don`t know.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BANFIELD: Will the man accused of killing his family --
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CECE: Hi!
SHANANN WATTS, WIFE OF CHRIS WATTS: Hi!
BELLA: Hi.
SHANANN WATTS: Aww, you guys are so cute.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BANFIELD: Pin the blame on his wife in court in?
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SHANANN WATTS: He`s the best thing that has ever happened to me.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BANFIELD: And just what would a jury make of it? Plus --
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I miss the smile on her face.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BANFIELD: The urgent search for a pretty young postal worker.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I really went to Snapchat, saw there was no story, so that kind of puzzled me.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BANFIELD: She vanished on her way to work.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You can see her in a - in a post office uniform, still right there, and she crossed the street.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BANFIELD: Only she just called in sick.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Maybe something did happen. Where he was overcome.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BANFIELD: So why was she en route in uniform?
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: She seen something that made her turn around and turn across the street.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BANFIELD: And where did this pregnant mom to be end up?
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I just don`t understand. So who would do something like this? I don`t know.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BANFIELD: Good evening. I`m Ashleigh Banfield. This is "Crime and Justice" and you have heard it before. Does the punishment fit the crime?
Because in this country, there`s a variety of both punishments and crimes. But there aren`t many cases as mismatched as the one I`m about to bring
you. I want you to meet Justin Schneider.
Justin Schneider, commit that face to memory. Father, husband, air traffic controller in Alaska. And something else. A guy who happened to stop at a
gas station last year, where he met a woman. According to investigators, he offered to give a woman a ride. Because she was en route to her
boyfriend`s. But Schneider made a little pit stop along the way, pulling over near a parked car, asking the woman to get out, tackling her, putting
her in a choke hold, threatening to kill her, then squeezing her throat until she passed out.
And when she came to, he was standing over her, straddling her body, and his pants were unzipped and there was something wet on her face. For which
he kindly offered her a tissue. But when he drove off and left her like that, that brave and courageous woman got a good long look at his license
plate. Which would later help police track him down. Track down that sick attacker and hit him with a walloping kidnapping and assault. And not just
assault.
You think sexual assault. But you`d be wrong. Because in the State of Alaska, it is not a sexual offense to masturbate on the face of someone you
just choked out. And if that is not enough, Justin Schneider, there he is in court, was just granted a sweetheart of a deal. Admitting he was only
guilty of one pesky little count of second-degree assault.
Every single thing against him otherwise was dropped. Including that pesky misdemeanor of ejaculating onto the woman`s unconscious face. All told, a
two-year sentence. One of them suspended. And since he spent the last year at home with his wife and kids just wearing an ankle monitor, well,
the judge constituted that as a year of time.
So technically, he was done. He served his time. And he walked out the backdoor of that courtroom not one day spent in jail.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SCHNEIDER: I would just like to emphasize how grateful I am for this process. It has given me a year to really work on myself and become a
better person and a better husband and a better father, and I`m very eager to continue that journey.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BANFIELD: I am not sure I can stomach what I just heard. He spent a year working on yourself, making yourself a better person, better husband,
better father? Did you reach out to the woman? The woman you did that to? Did you fix her life? Have you done anything to make amends? And how is
freedom?
You`re not eyeballing anybody else at a gas station, are you? Ladies, I warn you, if you`re in Alaska, get a good long look at that guy`s face.
Because he may not have gotten justice in a courtroom like the rest of us think he should have. But he can get a little media justice. He can get a
little viral justice.
Who knows if this guy`s viral? I can tell you one thing, we know what he did. We know what those eyes were capable of. We know what he said. We
know what he did.
It was a loophole. He got out. He`s free. He`s walking on your sidewalk. Maybe by your daughter`s school. He`s out there. Justin Scott Schneider.
And I hope to hell everyone watching tonight takes a clip of this broadcast and puts it out on the internet so that it goes even more viral. And
everybody everywhere remembers that man`s face.
Reporter Danielle Rivera of CNN Affiliate KTVA joins me now. Also Elizabeth Williams is a social worker. She`s organizing an effort to oust
Judge Corey. Also "Live P.D." cohost is here to analyze, Tom Lawrence Jr. is with us to analyze the cases tonight. And joins me live as well.
I need to get off the ledge on this one. I`ve rarely been this angry about a case we`ve covered. And lots of things make me angry. Some of the cases
are so outrageous but to see this kind of injustice? Call it what you will, you can break down the law any damn way you want to.
You can give me every reason in the book why that prosecutor couldn`t figure this one out and the judge just let him go, let him not figure it
out, let him just prosecute nothing. But that guy`s walking the streets. That woman, god knows where she is, god knows how ruined she is. And any
other women who may come into his path since he is only 34 and presumably has a lot of living years left. Better beware.
Daniela Rivera, as a reporter on this case, following this case, is there something I am missing? Is there some -- please tell me there`s something
I`m missing, because none of this is satisfying.
DANIELLE RIVERA, CNN AFFILIATE KTVA: Well, you pretty much summed it up. That`s exactly what happened. We were in the courtroom. He walked out
that door before I did. And what we`re hearing from experts here in Alaska, from our governor, is that our reporting of Mr. Schneider`s plea
deal has exposed a loophole in Alaska State Law and that is that for at least a decade, causing someone to have unwanted contact with semen has not
been considered a sex offense.
He was charged with kidnapping, he was charged with assault, and he was charged with harassment, unwanted contact with fluids. None of those
sexual offenses.
BANFIELD: Ashley Willcot, as the lawyer here, you`re going to help me navigate how the hell he even needed a plea deal. It sounded like this
poor victim had the wherewithal and the bravery and the smarts to record that license plate and all of the details of what happened to her and give
that report from the E.R. after she called 911. And lo and behold, all the evidence they gathered afterwards matched everything she said, which tells
me she`s an impeccable witness, and that tells me there`s impeccable evidence, and I don`t know why you need a plea deal on something like that.
ASHLEY WILLCOT, TRIAL ATTORNEY: Well, I don`t know either. I agree with you. The thing is its corroborating evidence. So when you have that
evidence, you should be able to prosecute those crimes. And so I`m very surprised, he basically got a sweetheart deal, a great plea, where he
didn`t have to plea to the things the prosecution might have been able to prove. I do wonder if the prosecution expected him to actually get jail
time and he didn`t, I don`t know.
BANFIELD: Well, all I can say is that the judge seemed to have his hands tied. And in the summary of all of this, the judge looked to the
prosecutor, trusting that the prosecutor had everything he could have and couldn`t get a conviction, therefore had to rely on a plea deal. But I`m
just going to read from the criminal complaint. Because this is pretty damn strong evidence, if you ask me.
"The man immediately and violently grabbed her neck in a front choke hold with both hands and told her if she screamed, he`d kill her. She could not
fight him off. He was too heavy. And he had her down, being choked to dead. She thought she was going to die. And the man told her he was going
to kill her. She could not fight him off. He was too heavy. And he had her down, being choked to death."
So that sounds pretty damn strong in terms of a, you know, of a description of what was happening. But not only that, she goes on to say, and I`m just
going to ask the control room to give me that screen number too. Because this part is so graphic and so offensive, to not think there`s a sexual
offense here somewhere in Alaska law is appalling.
"His penis was out. This is as soon as she had regained consciousness. He was not wearing a condom and he put his penis back into his pants which
were on, but they were unzipped until he zipped himself back up. As she sat up trying to regain bearings she noticed her face was wet. The man
told her he wasn`t really going to kill her, that he needed her to believe she was going to die so that he could be sexually fulfilled and ejaculate."
Tom Morris Jr., as a law enforcement man, what am I missing?
TOM MORRIS JR., FORMER DC SPECIAL POLICE OFFICER: Nothing, Ashleigh. This man should be going to jail for a long time for this crime. But Alaska is
a frontier state in a lot of ways still. The fact that that`s not illegal in Alaska shows how different things are up there. He should have been
convicted in any of the other 49 states for this crime, instead he gets to walk.
BANFIELD: And you know, again, the judge looking at these prosecutors saying, well, you know, you know the case well. And I have to go on the
fact that you believe you can`t get a full prosecution and a conviction in this, thereby you have to resort to that pesky old plea deal. And that is
exactly what this judge did.
Let me let you hear from the prosecutor, Andrew Grannik. I want you to listen carefully specifically to how he refers to this defendant, this
sexually deviant freak who choked a woman out into unconsciousness and ejaculated on her face before leaving her in the ditch. I want you to
listen to how the prosecutor refers to that man in court. Have a look.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ANDREW GRANNIK, ASSISTANT DISTRICT ATTORNEY: I hope it doesn`t happen. That`s the reason why I made the deal that I`ve made. Because I have
reasonable expectations that it won`t happen. But I would like the gentleman to be on notice that that is his one pass. It`s not really a
pass. But given the conduct, one might consider that it is.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BANFIELD: I have two issues. The gentleman? I hope that the gentleman is on notice? The gentleman? Is that because he handed his victim a tissue?
After what he did? Is that why he`s a gentleman?
Again, ladies and gentlemen of Alaska and everywhere else south of Alaska, including Canada, Justin Scott Schneider. Height 6`5", weight
approximately 200. You get a clear look at his smiling mug right there. Avoid this man at all costs. He is no gentleman. I don`t care what the
prosecutor has to say.
And the second issue, Ashley Willcot, is he says it`s his one pass. Then he corrects himself, not really a pass. But he said it. He said it`s his
one pass. What the hell does a pass have to do with any of this?
WILLCOT: It shouldn`t. And so keep in mind our justice system is there to punish and deter. And their outcome of this means he was not punished and
there`s no deterrence for anyone else doing it. He`s going to do it again, but guess what? Somebody else who might have the same sexual proclivity
that`s a horrific crime might do the same thing. There is no such thing as a pass.
BANFIELD: The man who said he needed her to believe she was dying in order to get off. Because we don`t think he`s going to do that again?
MORRIS JR.: He might. There`s another element to this too. She was a Native American woman. And he`s obviously a white male.
In Alaska, Native American women are 42 percent more likely to be victims of sexual assault and domestic violence than women in the other 49 states.
And this is why so many women do not come forward, because of travesties like this, and they`re not believed, and they`re not taken seriously by the
system that should be protecting them.
BANFIELD: Does make me wonder if that made any difference in terms of the value of her word. But God, I mean honestly, watching the Kavanagh
hearings, the value of a woman`s word is not equal to a man`s. Because when they`re both brilliant and they both have incredible backgrounds and
it`s he said/she said, well, hat tip to the dude. That may have been what happened here.
But Elizabeth Williams, she`s a social worker and volunteer rape counselor, and someone who`s organizing the effort to oust this judge, am I to believe
that that`s what the issue was here? That the prosecutor said, it`s a he said/she said so we just don`t have enough evidence, don`t ask me why a
woman`s word isn`t evidence when it corroborates with all of the other evidence they found. But is that what happened here?
You got a guy who says one thing and a girl who says another, so points go to the guy. Can`t convict him.
ELIZABETH WILLIAMS, SOCIAL WORKER: So I think this case was a case of pure and simple laziness. The prosecutor was too lazy. He said that he
couldn`t contact the victim. But if you look at what he did, he made one phone call, he sent one letter. He admitted that he could have used law
enforcement to contact her, but he chose not to. It was pure and simple laziness. And the judge was too lazy to hold the prosecutor to a higher
level of conduct. And didn`t insist that he contact the victim. I think that these men --
BANFIELD: So let me get this straight. We still -- I mean, I appreciate that, and that is appalling on its own. But Elizabeth, this woman already
did an extraordinary job by getting that license plate, preserving the evidence, going to the E.R., meeting with not one, not two, but three
officers who responded, giving a full and thick and robust statement filled with specifics and details about this man.
WILLIAMS: Right. And give up DNA evidence.
BANFIELD: The description. She even said, you never forget the man`s face, who killed if she pointed him out in a lineup. What more did they
want from her, what more did they need from her?
WILLIAMS: She went through an exam where DNA was collected, gave up the tissue which had his DNA on it, there was everything in this case. You
know what the state labeled her? An unreliable or uncooperative witness.
BANFIELD: That`s because after this incredible cooperation, that one phone call and that one letter didn`t yield an appearance? Is that it?
WILLIAMS: Exactly. There is the time --
BANFIELD: I`ve got to be honest, if someone had tried to call me or e-mail me once, I wouldn`t know about it. We get busy, we travel. We have
children. Well you know. It`s a mobile society. Would I be an uncooperative and unreliable witness by those standards?
WILLIAMS: And it seems like it. I think you can`t ignore race in this. This was an Alaska native woman. And I think that she was labeled
uncooperative and unreliable because of her race. And I think Schneider was labeled a gentleman and an exception and a good candidate for
rehabilitation.
BANFIELD: A gentleman. I nearly threw up - I nearly threw up when I heard a prosecutor call a man like that a gentleman. Put up this image again.
The gentleman according to the prosecutor who I think should be more considered, according to other laws, more like a rapist. He should be,
according to the law, thought of as a rapist, as a violent and nearly murderous rapist, but the law doesn`t say so. The law gives this guy a
break. And the judge gave him a big break.
Judge Michael Corey, hear what he said at sentencing so you get a feel about the prosecutor`s extraordinary job.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JUDGE MICHAEL COREY: The actions that occurred simply can`t be tolerated. We just can`t have that. Not even close. I think it speaks volumes that
an individual such as Mr. Grannik is advocating for the acceptance of what at first blush would really quite frankly strike me as way too light a
sentence. I think I would consider, quite frankly this result an outlier. You don`t - you don`t come across this fact pattern. This set of
circumstances, very often at all.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BANFIELD: Judge, listen close. If you think, as you said, that these actions that occurred simply can`t be tolerated, your quote, then why did
you tolerate it? Because you, sir, tolerated it. You took whatever that prosecutor handed you. And by the way, I have all the same stuff you have.
I wouldn`t have and I`m nowhere near your level.
I have all the same material and information that you have. And I would have said to that prosecutor, why isn`t this woman`s word strong evidence?
It seems to be corroborated with all the other evidence. It seems to me she`s an incredible witness. Why wouldn`t that be strong enough for a
prosecution, judge? It`s a good thing that judges are elected because that means that judges can be unelected.
Coming up next, crime re-enactments have swayed juries in the past. But will Chris Watts be the next one to have a famous re-enactment of his
version of events in a Colorado courtroom?
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BANFIELD: Seeing your loved one`s killer. That`s got to be up there with just about the thing you never want to see. And maybe even higher on that
list, seeing your loved one`s killer re-enact the killing.
Now Chris Watts has not been convicted of murdering his pregnant wife and two baby daughters but the police say he did it. They say he killed all
three of them. Before hiding their bodies at his worksite. Then just telling everybody they were off missing somewhere.
So it got us asking, if right now he`s preparing to strike down that storyline in court with a sickening re-enactment of his version of events,
one that makes his wife the monster, and all the people she left behind, the family, the friends, the co-workers, could be forced to sit and watch
while Chris Watts re-enacts the morning when he says he discovered that wife, Shanann, killing their kids.
I want to bring in crime journalist, Pat Lalama who joins Tom Morris Jr. and Ashley Willcot. They`re still with me.
Pat Lalama, I want you to weigh in on this. You and I have covered enough crimes to seen re-enactment after re-enactment in court. Do you think this
is going to be one of those?
PAT LALAMA, CRIME JOURNALIST: Let me put it to you this way, dear friend and colleague. If this man, Chris Watts, or anyone who defends him, has
the, "you know what`s" to get up there and try to re-enact this story, I am telling you that`s like throwing fresh meat to a lion. Think about that
abominable display of deception when he gave the local news interviews. Lie after lie after lie. And unless for some reason his defenders think he
is absolutely innocent and telling the truth, all he would do is give the prosecution so much fodder to -- it would bury him, Ashleigh, no way is
this going to happen. I`ll bet you my next -- I don`t know, I`ll bet you a beer, because if this had not happened.
BANFIELD: Well, I would take - I would take that beer after Segment A because I am so angry still from the Alaskan -- I call it a rape story even
though the law doesn`t agree.
LALAMA: If he`s still - if he`s still an air traffic controller, by the way, that`s what I want to know.
BANFIELD: We`re going to call on that. Is he not? No, he got canned.
LALAMA: Does he still have a wife? I`d like to know that too. Does he still have a wife?
BANFIELD: Apparently so. The word on the street is apparently so. And as Tom, well, Tom Morris, and I`m going to let you say something about that.
MORRIS JR.: you know --
BANFIELD: Still has a wife.
MORRIS JR.: He still has a wife and he`s still going to find a job somewhere. And he`s going to go on and live his life. I really, really
don`t believe this was an abomination, his behavior.
BANFIELD: You think it`s normal?
MORRIS JR.: I suspect he may have done this before and never got caught.
BANFIELD: We also say that Camille Cosby is still with Bill Cosby, even true or all of it, everything.
MORRIS JR.: True.
BANFIELD: All the filth and foulness and you know, sometimes they just stand by their man. But we`re on this different block even though my head
is popping right off.
So Pat, I wanted to bring up an example of a case we covered, Jodi Arias. There was a --
MORRIS JR.: Right.
BANFIELD: Liar extraordinaire, she couldn`t open her mouth without a filthy lie coming out. And she did the re-enactment.
LALAMA: Right.
BANFIELD: We pulled the tape, have a look.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Show me the posture of Mr. Alexander immediately before he rushed you, according to you.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Ss he was --
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No, no. Just show me. That`s what I`m asking you to do. Not talk. Show me. Show me the linebacker pose.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: He got down --
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Well show me. Show me the linebacker pose. That`s what I`m asking for you to do.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Okay. He went like that, he turned his head and grabbed my waist.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Just like that, correct?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Pretty much.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And he grabbed your waist, right?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: And I can`t say it`s just like that, but that`s what I pretty much --
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Well no, just -- I want -- without talking, just show me the pose.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: He got down like that.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Like that, all right, go ahead and have a seat, then.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BANFIELD: It didn`t turn out so well for her, did it, Ashley.
WILLIAMS: No, did not turn out for her well at all. But listen, I hope the re-enactment does happen because this is exactly what`s going to happen
if there`s re-enactment. When you lie and make up stories you can`t re- enact because you have nothing to re-enact. You`re making it up the entire time. So that`s why I hope that Chris Watts chooses to re-enact this, just
like Jodi Arias. She`s now in jail for her conviction.
BANFIELD: Because he is by all accounts one of the worst actors I`ve ever seen. That day, remember, did you watch him on the porch that day? Every
single person on my team, we`re pretty skilled at looking at those who are in distress after something happens. And we all looked at him and said, I
smell a rat. Right away.
MORRIS JR.: If they hired Steven Spielberg to direct this re-enactment and Matthew McConaughey to play this man, a jury still would convict.
BANFIELD: Because he was just such a liar on the porch, right?
MORRIS JR.: Absolutely.
BANFIELD: Once a liar, always a liar.
MORRIS JR.: And also strangulation is a crime of immediate rage. Immediate, spontaneous rage. You don`t have time to get a knife, you don`t
have time to get a gun. That`s what tells me that his story about him finding her strangling the daughter is just absolute baloney.
BANFIELD: Yes. By the way, we were all kind of just spitballing as we do. We`re almost like a group of detectives on our program and we`re thinking,
if she`s -- every one of us who has kids has leaned over the crib and looked after the kid and you`re blocking the view. When you`re reaching
over, it`s pretty damn hard to see what`s happening in the crib. So it would be another really sticky point, I think, for his defense attorney, to
get past. I want to show this other one. I know you are all so keen with crime history and the most famous of sort of re-enactments in the
courtroom. And sure enough you`re already guessing that I`m going to play that moment of the Susan Wright Trial where Susan Wright, who stabbed her
husband about 200 times, his name is Jeffrey Wright.
The prosecutor in that court dragged their marital bed into the courtroom, and she, the prosecutor, climbed up on another prosecutor who played the
victim and straddled him on the bed and then, well, watch, take a look at what it looks like.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The defendant were to get up on top of Jeffrey Wright, something like this, and straddle him, and she`s right-handed, and
how do you think she held the knife? That would be consistent with the knife going in this way.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Correct.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Vertical, not this way horizontal.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Correct.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: And is it a more natural fit in your hand to do it this way as opposed to this way?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes, ma`am.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: OK, if I`m on top of Paul and I`m holding the knife this way in my right hand, and I attack at the head area first, which side
of his face or most of the injuries going to be on?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: On the left side.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: On his left side, which is right here, is that right?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: That`s correct.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: OK. And most of the injuries were where?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Concentrated on the left side of --
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ASHLEIGH BANFIELD, HLN HOST: Yes, Pat Lalama, didn`t work out so well for her either, she`s put away for life. And I kept thinking, I`m not sure if
it was a prosecutor or one of those kids in the office who got picked for victim, you know? But I would not have wanted to be in that position
because that video has played in posterity has played over and over and over, as one of the more astounding moments in a courtroom.
PAT LALAMA, CRIME JOURNALIST: Well, it was very visual and very effective. But remember, it was a prosecutor who was telling, essentially as we know
now, because of a conviction, the truth about what happened. But like, Ashleigh, police stated and what I was trying to say is, if you`re a
veritable liar and you are trying to get up there and convince someone visually that, oh, this is how it happened, hey, then, guess what, I want
to see a baby monitor up there. I want to see some dolls, you know, positioned, and a woman going after one of them.
BANFIELD: I`m with you.
LALAMA: It`s not going to happen.
BANFIELD: So, like -- well, then I hope, Pat Lalama, for the sake of, you know, justice and truth, that they actually played a clip from our show
because we did that show intel with the baby monitor and it was next to impossible to see the thimble-sized face, not even, it was smaller than
that, it was almost a pin -- the head of a pin. That would have been a very difficult prospect, but that does bring me --
LALAMA: Well, let`s submit it to the prosecution. Let`s submit it.
BANFIELD: Well, I`m just here reporting on it, I`m not actually going to litigate this thing. But, Ashley Willcott, it does bring up a good point,
what Pat Lalama says that the prosecutor did that re-enactment and it went very well for the prosecutor, did not go well for the defendant. Jodi
Arias was the defendant doing her own re-enactment and that did not go well. So, does it really matter who it is doing the acting?
ASHLEY WILLCOTT, TRIAL ATTORNEY: I don`t think so, at all. And I think that Chris Watts, whether he did or not, no, I do not think it matters.
Because they`re re-enacting exactly what the person says happened, and the re-enactment will show you whether or not it was possible that that
actually happened. So ...
BANFIELD: I`ve never felt like these re-enactments or go-sees -- you know, when they take a jury on a site, they do a -- they do a jury view of -- I
mean, O.J.`s house -- they did a jury view of O.J.`s house. It was years after the fact. They`ve restaged the whole thing, taken all the photos
down, put different photos up. I`ve always felt that that`s actually -- it`s pejorative, it`s not fair, it`s not probative, because it`s not the
same. It`s not the same as when you show up on a crime scene. It looks, feels, and smells entirely different than it does a week later and two
years later.
TOM MORRIS, JR., FORMER D.C. SPECIAL POLICE OFFICER: Well, with this case, the diabolical way he got rid of the bodies, putting the two girls into an
oil tank, and shallow -- burying the wife in a shallow grave out there, 40 miles from his house, that also says to a jury that this man could have, if
the story went the way he said, immediately called the police and said, I caught my wife strangling my daughter, I strangled her, I`m calling you
right now. He didn`t do that. He went a whole different direction to cover up this crime. And a jury, even if you re-enact what he says
happened, a jury`s going to see through that.
BANFIELD: So that would require the jurors to be reasonable like Tom Morris, Jr. It`s why you`re a big star.
MORRIS: We know juries are unpredictable.
BANFIELD: On live P.D., because you`re reasonable and you get it, but juries are unpredictable, you`re damn right. You know, we`ve always got
that one juror, right, who doesn`t even know what reasonable doubt means.
Just ahead, an entire city tonight is searching for a young and pregnant and beautiful postal worker who called out sick and then just disappeared.
But this young lady, this young lady, she left some clues behind.
[19:35:00] (COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BANFIELD: Tonight, there`s an urgent search for a gorgeous, young, pregnant woman in Chicago. But she has not been seen or heard from in over
a week and a half. In fact, the last time Kierra Coles was seen was on a typical Tuesday morning. She was caught on a neighbor`s surveillance
camera, walking to work in her postal uniform. But when Kierra disappeared out of the frame of the camera, well, that ended up being the last time she
was ever seen. She never made it to the post office where she works. But here`s where things get bizarre. She had reportedly just called in sick.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
KAREN PHILLIPS, KIERRA`S MOM: I have no feeling. You know, it`s just hard. You know, I don`t want to think the worst. I`m trying to stay
positive, but it is just empty. You know, I need for her to come home. Maybe something did happen where she was just overcome with a lot. You
know, when you`re pregnant, you`ve got emotions. So, you know, I want to just say she just went somewhere, didn`t want to tell nobody, and then, you
know, she`ll just come home, but I don`t feel that.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
[19:40:14] BANFIELD: Crime & Justice Producer Justin Freiman joins the team now, along with Tom Morris, Jr. and Ashley Willcott, there`s still
with me here. So, Justin, this is weird. I mean, she seems to have been in the postal uniform, walking towards her car, her keys or her purse at
least and her cell phone are in the car, but she walks past it.
JUSTIN FREIMAN, HLN CRIME & JUSTICE PRODUCER: That`s right. It`s over a week had gone by. About a week and a half since this happened, and you`re
right, the reports are saying that her purse and her phone are locked inside the car. So, the question is, why didn`t she go away in the car?
We see in that video that she`s walking, and from all reports is, she walks across the street. Her car is on the side of the street where we see her
walking right now, and yet, for some reason, she crosses that street. Was she going somewhere else? Did she see something and that spooked her and
so she decided to cross over and keep going? We just don`t know. But we know that is the last time anybody has seen her.
BANFIELD: And of course, the first thing that our viewers would want to see right now is we`ll show us the video of her putting the stuff in the
car. But this is someone`s neighborhood cam and that happens out of frame. All we can tell you is that this is what you see, and the next evidence
that`s found is her car out of frame with her purse and her cell phone locked inside it, which again is bizarre, I think.
Tom, can you even lock a door -- can you lock your keys to your car or your things inside it? I mean, I`m wondering if maybe the keys to the car are
outside the car but the stuff is inside the car.
MORRIS: I suppose it`s possible. But I believe, like you said, that she saw someone that she went to go talk to and that`s why she walked away from
the car. And perhaps she was planning on leaving with someone, we just don`t know that, but I really think she was walking towards someone as
opposed to maybe away from someone.
BANFIELD: So, the police get called in on this, obviously. Look, her parents have said she doesn`t go a day without -- in fact, listen to her
mom. Her mom is named Karen Phillips. And Kierra`s mom says that they were (AUDIO GAP) all times. Here`s how she put it.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
PHILLIPS: We talk all the time. If we miss one day, it`s just one day. Never four, five, six, seven, eight, nine days, never.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BANFIELD: And if anyone thinks she`s just, you know, off somewhere and, you know, doing something about this pregnancy. Well, her dad really
dispels that as well. Have a listen to what her dad says. This is her father, Joseph Coles, take a listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JOSEPH COLES, KIERRA`S DAD: Overjoyed. I miss the smile on her face. If anybody know anything, please, call in. Let us know. We love her, we miss
her.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BANFIELD: OK, Tom Morris Jr., she`s overjoyed to be having a baby. Her mom talks to her all the time. This is abnormal behavior. So, you`re the
officers dispatched on this case, who are you looking at? Where are -- how do you fan out? What did you do?
MORRIS: She`s pregnant. You`re always going to look at who the father of that child is, first. You`re also going to look at any other people she
may have been contacted with on a daily basis on social (AUDIO GAP) involved with. Maybe did she have any female (AUDIO GAP) we`re unaware of?
BANFIELD: Ah, that`s a good point.
MORRIS: You know, it`s not always a man that does this, that makes a woman disappear or something like that.
BANFIELD: Right.
MORRIS: But I would also say having worked on the case of the three girls that were found in that house in Cleveland, the family should not expect
the worst in this case. You never know how these cases are going to end up. She could very well be alive and being held somewhere and she can be
found.
BANFIELD: Yes, Elizabeth Smart as well.
MORRIS: Absolutely.
BANFIELD: Nine months later, there she was.
MORRIS: Worked on that case.
BANFIELD: And we`ve covered many of these. I mean, god, the woman who was kept in the -- in the shipping container for -- what was that, Justin, two
months, three months? I can`t even remember, but it was a horrifying case.
FREIMAN: She`s chained up in it, yes.
BANFIELD: And she was chained inside that container and she was -- Kala Brown? Was her name Kala Brown?
FREIMAN: I believe so.
BANFIELD: Kala Brown, just off the top of my head, I`m trying to remember the number of days, but it was -- it was interminable how long she was in
that container. But here`s the other odd part. She`s in her uniform. See, this is the detective part I`m trying to get out of you. She`s in her
uniform but called out sick, as a Canadian, I`ll say, called in sick, but she called out sick. And she`s got what looks like either a purse or
postal bag, she`s got that uniform on, but she`s called out sick. So, where do you factor those facts into this?
MORRIS: Well, it makes you wonder what her intent was when she left home. Did she intend to go to work even though she had initially called in and
said, I`m sick, I don`t want to come to work today? Did she change her mind and decide she was going to go to work anyway and just show up? We
don`t know.
BANFIELD: Well, she may be, and then, you spitball everything because none of this is fair. It`s not fair to the father who immediately has eyeballs
all over him, right? Because he could be so innocent. The smarts will tell you that that eyeballs were all over the smart family as though they
were -- they were not. But you also might have to look at her. Was she maybe going off to see somebody who maybe her boyfriend wouldn`t have
wanted her to see? So, I`m off to work, sweetheart, in my postal uniform, but tells work she`s not. You have to look at all of those factors and I
guess go from there.
[19:45:01] MORRIS: Every angle.
BANFIELD: As unfair as they all seem to all parties concerned. That`s what it -- that`s what it takes to try and solve it. But there you have
her information, everybody. Take a look. Kierra Coles, 27, just a stunner, and just so mystifying, that disappearance. We`ll see what we can
get out of that in the days to come.
In the meantime, a murder, a wild highway pursuit, and then this. Now, that`s a mugshot for the ages. How do you think he got that way? You`re
going to find out next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[19:50:33] BANFIELD: Sometimes a mug shot is worth a thousand words and there is always a bigger story behind the picture. Trust me. Just take a
look at this one. Kenneth Nolin. Police say this 33-year-old charmer led them on a wild chase in Michigan, on a highway. He crashed, he jumped out
of his car, and then, he just let loose with the bullets firing at the police, and a fast-thinking officer slammed into Nolin with his cruiser
sending him flying.
But why was Nolin on the run in the first place? The police say he killed his 27-year-old girlfriend, Tia Mae Randall, a mother of two. Her children
were at school when Nolin allegedly shot her once in the head at home. Nolin spent a week in the hospital in this condition. A judge has told him
that he could face life behind bars if he`s convicted. But to add insult to injury in all of this, Nolin is trying to make himself out to be the
victim in court, claiming police brutality and he says he wants to pursue charges against the people, I guess, he was shooting at.
Tom Morris and Ashley Scott are still here -- Ashley Willcott is still with me. So, it`s another one get me off the ledge. He`s shooting at the
police, they return with some kind of deadly action, that would be the cruiser, and he wants to charge them?
MORRIS: When you`re firing at the police, all bets are off. They don`t teach you in the police academy to hit a suspect with your car but we`ve
seen it happened before to stop a threat. It happened three years ago in Arizona. There was a guy who was on a one-day crime spree, torched the
church, robbed the 7-Eleven, stole a rifle at of Wal-Mart, and was confronting the police, when an officer just used his cruiser to ram and
stop him. Didn`t kill him but stopped the threat. And that`s what you have to do to stop the threat.
BANFIELD: It`s deadly force. I mean, what`s the difference between the force from your cruiser, Ashley, and the force from your gun if you are
engaging with someone who`s in a deadly -- who`s, you know, engaging in deadly behavior?
WILLCOTT: Right. Legally, definition-wise, there`s no difference, it`s deadly force, whether it`s your cruiser or your gun. And I want to say,
oh, please, really, he`s just defensive trying to get the attention off of him because he killed his girlfriend. There`s no deadly force that was
used inappropriately. And if you look at the video, you`d already mentioned it, just looks like he did get hit, but he wasn`t run down,
necessarily.
BANFIELD: Can I ask you a question? Can we put that mug shot up again? Because I mean, that`s really the sort of the money shot in all of this.
Can he actually milk this and suggest I shouldn`t look like this? All I did was fire my gun at police a few times.
WILLCOTT: I think that that`s what he`s going to try to do. Any defendant in that position might try to do that. I don`t think it has any merit. I
don`t think that that`s going to warrant. That`s not bad considering the injuries that could have happened to him for shooting at police officers.
BANFIELD: Right, I have to be honest with you. I guess, when you look at it, the charges that he`s facing, open murder, using a firearm in the
commission of a felony kind of dwarfs any sort of civil action or criminal action he wants to take against the police for messing up his face.
WILLCOTT: Absolutely.
BANFIELD: And (INAUDIBLE) around on the highway.
WILLCOTT: And he`s alive. He could have been dead after shooting at law enforcer.
BANFIELD: Count his lucky stars, he`s alive and maybe he`ll be able to live out that life behind bars. How about that? All right, guys, hold on
if you will, I`m going to have you back in a second.
In Alaska, a judge in a tough re-election campaign now after a kidnapping suspect is not sent off to prison after a sexual assault that apparently
wasn`t a sexual assault -- sure looked like it. Guy pleads guilty get a sweet heart of a deal after masturbating on to an unconscious woman. How
in God`s name could that judge have let it happen?
[19:55:00] (COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BANFIELD: Afghan and Iraqi interpreters are critical for American troops who are serving in the Middle East. And those interpreters put themselves
as well as their families in a lot of danger. And this week`s CNN Hero is an army vet whose mission it is to bring those interpreters to safety.
Meet Matt Zeller.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MATT ZELLER, CNN HERO: Afghan and Iraqi translators, they`re proud patriots who signed up to defend their country and to help us with our
mission. We owe these people a great debt of gratitude to feel like they have been honored for their sacrifice.
Welcome home.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Thanks for everything.
ZELLER: Thank you.
We also owe them -- it`s a chance at a new and better life that we promised them in exchange for that service.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BANFIELD: To more on that story, go to cnnheroes.com. And we`ll see you right back here Monday night, 6:00 Eastern. Thanks so much for watching,
everybody. "FORENSIC FILES" starts right now.
END
