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Paula Zahn Now

White House Under Fire; Rescue at the Edge of the Earth; New Report Shows Alarming Anti-American Sentiment In Arab Countries

Aired October 01, 2003 - 20:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


PAULA ZAHN, CNN ANCHOR: Amid growing calls for a special counsel to investigate the leak of a CIA's operative's identity, the White House staff is being offered up for lie detector tests.
Trapped at the end of the Earth, until a daring rescue flight into the teeth of the howling Antarctic winter saved his life. Tonight, in his first TV interview, one man's story of survival.

And the scientific pursuit of happiness, surprising answers to what really makes us happy. Here's a hint: Money, brains and good looks are not on the list.

Good evening. Welcome. Glad to have you with us tonight.

Also ahead, we'll see what has changed for the more than five million Iraqi children who returned to school today for the first time since the U.S. invasion.

We'll also look at why Muslim towards America has reached shocking new levels since the wars in Afghanistan and Iraq.

And story shrouded in secrecy for nearly 60 years involving eight American pilots shot down during World War II, a mystery only now being revealed, and the parallels to the story of one young Naval pilot who was also shot down, who survived and became president.

First, though, here are some of the headlines you need to know right now.

For the first time they were arrested nearly a year ago, sniper suspects John Allen Muhammad and Lee Boyd Malvo have come face to face. The 18-year-old Malvo was on the stand today during a pretrial hearing for Muhammad. Witnesses say Muhammad appeared to stare at Malvo as he testified. Malvo answered a few basic questions before asserting his Fifth Amendment rights.

The Washington Redskins get to keep their nickname. A federal judge has overruled a decision revoking the football team's trademark. The judge said there wasn't enough to conclude the name is disparaging to Native Americans.

And the Republican has reached a milestone. The party has gained more than one million new donors since President Bush took office in the year 2000. The figure beats a record set during the two terms of President Reagan. Who told columnist Robert Novak the name of a CIA operative? The Justice Department is investigating that leak. Congressional Democrats want a special counsel appointed. The operative's husband, former ambassador Joseph Wilson, has been suggesting that President Bush's senior adviser, Karl Rove, at the minimum, would have condoned the leak. Both Rove and Novak deny the leak came from Rove. The White House calls those allegations ridiculous.

To put this all into perspective this evening, "In Focus," I'm joined from Austin, Texas, by Wayne Slater. He is the co-author of a book about Karl Rove called "Bush's Brain."

Welcome back to the broadcast. Good to see you again.

WAYNE SLATER, AUTHOR, "BUSH'S BRAIN": Good to see you, Paula.

ZAHN: So you have known Mr. Rove for some 20 years. When you heard this allegation that he could in some way be involved with this leak to at least six correspondents, did you buy it?

SLATER: Well, I wasn't surprised.

Now, again, I don't know who leaked what to whom. Most people don't know the facts here. And both Bob Novak and Karl Rove have said it didn't happen. But I have to say that it certainly was consistent with the Karl Rove that I know. If he didn't do this, he certainly has a pattern of activity over the 15 years, 20 years, that I've known him where he has done similar things.

ZAHN: Now, he has actually leaked you information over the years.

SLATER: He has.

ZAHN: What was the quality of that information you were given?

SLATER: Oh, excellent, fantastic.

Look, Karl Rove was a phenomenal political figure. He's a relentless political operator in Texas and has been since the early 1980s. He gave me a lot of information. Some of it was minor. Some of it was major and in some cases destroyed the political careers of Texas politicians. One thing he has never done to me is given me any information in which a law was broken, however.

That, I think, makes this episode substantially different than the scores of cases where Karl has given me information in the past and other reporters here in Texas.

ZAHN: So what you're saying, Wayne, is you think he's too savvy of a politician to push it that far?

SLATER: Well, he is relentless.

Let me repeat that word, and it is a polite word. He's an extraordinary political figure, who, over the years, has talked about all kinds of things, the personal lives, the business lives, the practices and so forth of political figures. But he is so smart, he is so good, he is such an experienced operator, while it would not surprise me if ultimately Karl were the leaker or was part of a process that knew about this leaking in the White House, it would, on the other hand, surprise me that he, being so smart, would go cross this line.

This is very serious. This is obviously blowing the cover of a CIA operative and possibly affecting the security of the country. I think Karl Rove is smart enough to know: I got to think before I would ever do something like that.

ZAHN: The president has made it very clear that he thinks whoever is responsible for this should get nailed for it. If there is a scenario where it is discovered that Karl Rove was involved in any way, whether it was the actual leaking itself or the condoning of the leak, do you see a situation where the president would fire him?

SLATER: Absolutely.

The president would fire Karl Rove if and when the police arrive with a conviction and chains to haul him away, or, short of that, if Karl were to acknowledge that, yes, indeed, after all was done and said: I was the leaker. The president would have no choice.

But I have to say, Karl Rove was an instrumental part in building the entire governorship of George Bush, in fashioning the presidential campaign, and in governing matters, especially domestic matters in the White House. He is an intricate part, not simply an attachment, a political operative who was attached and joined the campaign at some point.

He was at George Bush's side even before George Bush knew he was a political candidate for governor. And so it would take an extraordinary moment, an extraordinary moment, for this governor to cut the reins and let Karl Rove go away. And short of an admission or short of absolute evidence, this president will stick by Karl Rove. That's what I've seen in the past.

ZAHN: Wayne Slater, thanks for stopping by to share your thoughts with us this evening. Appreciate it.

And the question of who leaked the CIA operative's name has turned into a huge political story inside Washington's Beltway, but will it resonate around the country and cost the president public support?

In Washington to discuss it are "TIME" magazine columnist Joe Klein, along with Doyle McManus of "The Los Angeles Times." With me in New York, our own legal analysis, Jeffrey Toobin, who happens to be the author of many books, but "A Vast Conspiracy," a book about the Clinton era special counsel investigation.

Welcome to all three of you.

Doyle, I want to start with you this evening. Walk us through some of the more significant developments of the day.

DOYLE MCMANUS, "THE LOS ANGELES TIMES": Well, Paula, I think today, we saw a couple of things happen.

One is that the partisan battle heated up a little bit. We saw the first signs of a counterattack from Republicans on the credibility of Joe Wilson, the former ambassador, whose wife is the CIA operative whose identity was blown, Republican Party operatives saying that, Joe Wilson was irresponsible when he named Karl Rove and that we ought to look into the fact that Joe Wilson appears to be a supporter of Senator John Kerry, the Democratic senator from Massachusetts who is running for president.

The other thing we saw today was I think significant was the beginnings of the outline of a defense strategy from the White House. We heard from Scott McClellan, the White House press secretary, that, for example, we ought to focus only on whether classified information was released. For example, if Karl Rove later on commented on the Novak column, that's not a violation of the law.

And the second thing we heard from the White House was that the release of this information would only be a crime if the person who released it knew that the CIA operative's identity was classified. If this was an act that was unwitting or unknowing, then it might not be a crime.

ZAHN: Joe Klein, I'd love for you to walk through what happened before and what happened today. We're going to put up on the screen some excerpts from Bob Novak's columns for you to examine.

His first column, of course, on this matter went out in July -- quote -- "I didn't dig it out. They thought it was significant. They gave me the name. I used it."

And then this is what Bob Novak wrote in his column today: "It was an offhand revelation from this official, who is no partisan gunslinger."

What do you make of it, Joe?

JOE KLEIN, CNN CONTRIBUTOR: Well, I think the main thing I make of it is, when you're saying that second quote -- I'll go back to the difference between the two in a second.

But when you're parsing that second quote, it seems that the person who gave him this story initially was not Karl Rove. It was someone else. My guess would be that Rove was the person who confirmed the story, if, indeed, he was involved. As for the difference between those two, there's a significant difference here.

And I saw Bob earlier on Wolf Blitzer's program on CNN. And he was kind of having a difficult time with the difference between those two quotes. He was, in fact, blaming the "Newsday" reporters for misquoting him. At a certain point, we journalists aren't too good when we're put on the spot in situations like this. And I think that a lot of us have been surprised by how insistent Bob has been about being public about this and talking about it so much.

ZAHN: Let me have us all listen to a small portion of that interview from Wolf's show earlier today to give an extra footnote here.

Let's listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP, "WOLF BLITZER REPORTS")

ROBERT NOVAK, CO-HOST, "CROSSFIRE": I'm not going to go any more description, but I did feel that the idea that this was some kind of a carefully arranged plot to destroy this woman and her husband, as far as I'm concerned, was nonsense. It didn't happen that way. And this kind of scandal that has perpetrated in Washington is Washington at its worst.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ZAHN: So, Joe, you're basically saying he's hurting himself by talking too much?

KLEIN: Yes.

But it's interesting that, when we had Washington at its worst during the last decade, an awful lot of Republicans didn't feel that way. In fact, they were perpetrating and calling for special prosecutors for people like Bruce Babbitt and Henry Cisneros and other Clinton administration figures for relatively minor crimes, and not even crimes, actually.

And the other thing that we should take from this is, rather than looking at these trees, we should look at the forest. And the forest here is a larger battle that the White House has been having with the CIA over the nature of the CIA's intelligence estimate for Iraq. The battle has been going on for more than a year. And this is the tip of that iceberg.

It's one of those incredible bureaucratic squabbles that you see from time to time.

ZAHN: Sure.

KLEIN: But, right now, it's between the White House and the CIA.

ZAHN: Let's bring Jeffrey into the discussion now.

You were a special prosecutor during the Iran-Contra era.

JEFFREY TOOBIN, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: Way back when, yes.

ZAHN: What is the White House in for if a special counsel is appointed?

TOOBIN: Just picture the beginnings of the scene. Every scrap of paper in connection with this matter, defined broadly, every e- mail, every phone record, every log of who was coming and going from the White House, not just Karl Rove, everyone involved in dealing with the press, that has all got to be collected and turned over. That's just the beginning.

Then you start with interviews. Today, we learned that they may do lie detector tests on Karl Rove and his colleagues. Again...

ZAHN: Does that make sense to you?

TOOBIN: Sure, it makes sense to you. If people are willing to do it -- if you're a prosecutor and people volunteer for a lie detector, sure. You can't force them to.

But then it gets even more complicated, because let's say you're a prosecutor and you think, this is a mess. I'm still not convinced. Well, let's impanel a grand jury. Let's have Karl Rove march through as many cameras as Hillary Clinton marched through when she testified before the grand jury and have him testify before the grand jury. It means people are hiring lawyers. And you never know where a criminal investigation is going to go.

ZAHN: And we be talking about this, if a presidential counsel is appointed, for another couple of years?

TOOBIN: Try six years for the Iran-Contra investigation. Try seven years for Kenneth Starr's Whitewater investigation, an investigation that included things like Filegate, Travelgate, Whitewater, which had no criminal aspect at all in the White House. Still, it took years to resolve.

ZAHN: Doyle, back to you for a final thought on what said the lines that are becoming quite apparent when it comes to the White House's defense and how that's shaping up.

MCMANUS: Well, this has clearly become a partisan issue, with each side sniping at each other.

But there is a deeper problem for the administration, in that there are Republicans, like Senator Chuck Hagel and Senator John McCain, who are saying, this is an issue that has to be investigated to its fullest. So I think we're going to see the White House, again, going back to that line of defense and saying, this may have been an inadvertent act by somebody and that not every disclosure is a criminal leak.

ZAHN: And I have to say, I have not been able to hear the last 20 second of what Doyle just had to say, because we were having a little audio problem.

Joe, give us a final thought.

KLEIN: Well, I think that I would be surprised if this thing lasts six years or seven years or eight years. I think that there are several names that are out there. The president -- it's his responsibility at this point to go to his top staff and say, "Was it you?" and to get this thing taken care of, because the damage to the administration if this goes on and on and on is going to be severe. Then you get into obstruction of justice issues and all the other nonsense that we have been going through for the last 10 or 15 years in this town.

ZAHN: Got to leave it there tonight, gentlemen.

Joe Klein, Doyle McManus, Jeffrey Toobin, thank you for dropping by.

For the first time, the man who endured a daring rescue from the South Pole is telling his story. We'll have an exclusive interview.

And a very special day for more than five billion children in Iraq, the first day of school since the war. Our cameras were there.

And think money can buy you happiness? Well, not according to the latest research. We're going to show you what science says will make you happy. Not that stuff.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

ZAHN: For the first time tonight, details of a daring rescue from the South Pole a little over 10 days ago. Research station worker Barry McCue was trapped at the bottom of the world, where it's winter right now. He was fighting bouts of excruciating pain from a medical condition that can be fatal.

He joins us from Chicago with an exclusive look at his ordeal and the rescue that may have saved his life.

Barry, welcome. How you feeling, first off?

BARRY MCCUE, RESCUED FROM SOUTH POLE: Well, I'm feeling real good. I saw my doctor today and I'm exactly where I should be at this point after my surgery.

ZAHN: Now, take us back to the initial attacks that you had and what point you realized that you had to get airlifted out of the pole to stay alive?

MCCUE: Well, the first attack was on August 25. It just came out of the blue. My stomach hurt just a lot.

It took me a while to realize I was the trouble. I finally decided I had to go see the doctor. When I went in there, here is this pale white guy week in his knees, took me and found out exactly what was wrong. It took him a couple hours. And he determined it was my gallbladder that was inflamed. And it was gangrenous at the time.

ZAHN: And so you basically were told you had to get out of there if you were going to stay alive?

MCCUE: Well, at that point, it was stable and it was OK. I had another attack a week later. And a couple days after that, my kidney took a hit from the infection. And, at that point, there was a huge conference that went on. They have this telemedicine system. And they broadcast it. They had surgeons in Galveston and Boston and Denver all looking at my ultrasound online, real-time. They determined that I had a real serious gallbladder problem and that, if it got any worse, it would be fatal.

So they started putting together a plan to extract me. Now, this is in the middle of the winter. There's no sun. It's minus-90 degrees. The wind are blowing. We've got blizzards on the coast. And so they had to plan this in a very careful and controlled manner, so that nobody else got hurt.

ZAHN: And how acutely aware you were aware of this very small window of opportunity your rescuers had?

MCCUE: I was actually very aware of it.

Understanding the weather, understanding the impact of the cold becomes a part of your daily life when you're at the South Pole. It's a real part of your environment. It's a little different.

ZAHN: Yes.

At the same time that you're worried about whether this rescue mission is going to work or not, you had to be concerned about the welfare of your children back home. You had lost your wife not long before that from a terrible, terrible tragedy.

MCCUE: An automobile accident, yes.

ZAHN: What did your kids know about your condition?

MCCUE: Actually, they knew quite a bit. The doctors were -- and, again, the ones in the states, the ones at the pole -- were all communicating. The RPSC, the Raytheon physician was in constant communication with my daughters, updating them, both to the status of the medevac and to my status. She probably knew more about my status and the medevac than I did, being there at the Pole, they were keeping so well informed,

ZAHN: And, Barry, when you look back at the miracle of your rescue itself, what was the most challenging part?

MCCUE: The most challenging part for me, really, was to do my job, which was to stay healthy, stay vertical and walking around, to not put pressure on all these other people, these hundreds of other people, the English at their research station in Rothera, who had to get their runway done in a blizzard, the South Pole, and the McMurdo workers who had to go out in minus-90 degrees and work outside putting together the systems necessary for the runway, those Canadian pilots coming down.

So the hardest part was me staying calm, a little fatalistic, understanding the best people in the world were doing the best they could do in the harshest environment in the world to get me out. There was a lot of heroes that did a lot of work to get me out of there.

ZAHN: I can only give you 10 seconds to answer this question. Did you think you might die there?

MCCUE: It was there. But, like I said, you had the best. The dice were going to roll. The best were working on it. So I didn't worry about it. I just hoped.

ZAHN: I would say you're one very lucky and blessed man. Thank you for sharing your story with us tonight.

MCCUE: Thank you for letting me. I appreciate it.

ZAHN: And we're happy that you got a good checkup at the doctor's today. Good luck to you, sir.

MCCUE: Thank you.

ZAHN: We hope you continue to stay healthy.

We're going to take a short break.

For the first time since the war, millions of Iraqi children went back to school today. We're going to show you how things have changed for them.

And we're going to hear how Rush Limbaugh is defending himself after that controversial comment about a black football star.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

ZAHN: Across Iraq, students headed off for the first day of school today. The U.S. has made education a cornerstone of the new Iraq, pouring millions into teachers' salaries, textbooks and fixing schools.

Michael Holmes accompanied one Iraqi girl and her family to the first day of school since the war broke out.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

MICHAEL HOLMES, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Breakfast time at the Sami (ph) household on a very special morning for 6-year-old Epra (ph). It's her first day of school.

The youngest of nine children, she'll be the first in the Sami family to start her education with a clean slate, one free of Saddam Hussein.

"I'm so excited," she tells us. "I can't wait to go."

School for Epra a brief walk and quantum leap in terms of her education, an education her mother hopes will be politics-free, in short, normal.

(on camera): What's not so normal on the first day of school is this: razor wire and tanks protecting Epra's school and its students.

(voice-over): It won't be here every day, of course, but American troops feared Epra's school just might be a target today. Inside, the kids mingle and talk of the day ahead.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE (through translator): I've heard that the curriculum will change, but I don't know if it has changed or not.

HOLMES: Aid money refurbished the school, filled the bullet holes and covered the political slogans, but it was a young student who cut the ribbon to begin this new chapter. It's just registration and orientation day today. Lessons begin on Saturday. But for Epra and her classmates, a warm welcome from the headmaster, Jabar al- Amiri.

JABAR AL-AMIRI, HEADMASTER (through translator): Welcome to the new school year. You have come to your new school. Hopefully, you'll be good students who will raise the level of education, who will serve your country and humanity.

HOLMES: Despite a scramble to print new Saddam-free textbooks, not all schools had them in time. Epra's teachers say, the textbooks here will still have the Iraqi leader and his thoughts inside the front cover, except, children themselves will be able to tear out those pages, if they want to. For the first time, they have the choice.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

HOLMES: And, Paula, as for those textbooks, UNESCO alone printing five million science and math books without Saddam Hussein's contribution on the inside, other agencies printing millions more. In all, 5.5 million Iraqi schoolchildren going back to school after a tumultuous summer no one would call a summer vacation -- Paula.

ZAHN: Yes, that's for darn sure.

Michael Holmes, thank you for taking us to school with you today.

Rush Limbaugh is facing a blitz of criticism tonight. Is he guilty of spewing racist thoughts or just practicing free speech? We're going to look at his controversial remarks about an NFL star.

And "Flyboys," the stories of nine U.S. airmen shot down during World War II. Eight of them were tortured and killed. The other became president of the United States.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

ZAHN: Welcome back.

Here are some of the headlines you need to know at this hour.

Israel's cabinet today OK'd new construction on the controversial security barrier separating Israeli and Palestinian territories. In a compromise, the plan calls for gaps in that fence. At the United Nations, the U.S. is circulating a draft resolution calling for authorization of a multi-national force for Iraq -- quote -- "under unified command." It says the job of running Iraq should be taken over by -- again, quoting -- "the evolving structures of the Iraqi interim administration." Those carefully chosen words are designed to attract international cooperation, money and troops.

Two U.S. soldiers died in separate attacks today in Iraq. There now have been 84 U.S. deaths from hostile action since the end of major combat was declared back on May 1.

Conservative radio commentator Rush Limbaugh has been branching out. This week, in his capacity as host of ESPN's Sunday NFL Countdown, Limbaugh criticized Philadelphia Eagles quarterback Donovan McNabb. He is now being blitzed by critics who say his remarks are racist.

First, let's listen to what Rush Limbaugh said.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

RUSH LIMBAUGH, RADIO TALK SHOW HOST: I think the sum total of what you're all saying is that Donovan McNabb is regressing. He's going backwards. And my -- I'm sorry to say -- I don't think he's been that good from the get-go. I think what we have here is a little social concern in the NFL. I think the media has been very desirous that a black quarterback do well.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Mm-Hmm.

LIMBAUGH: (UNINTELLIGIBLE) black coaches and black quarterbacks doing well.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ZAHN: Well, what a different a few hours can make. ESPN issued two statements today. The first stood by Limbaugh, basically saying that they hired him to stoke things up, that his comments were meant to basically inspire an audience to listen.

Well, now, the network has just released a statement saying, it is told the Limbaugh comments were insensitive and inappropriate.

Let's talk to the (UNINTELLIGIBLE) this evening.

In Philadelphia is Les Bowen. He covers the Eagles for "The Philadelphia Daily News" and was the first to tell Donovan McNabb about Rush Limbaugh's statement.

And here with me tonight in the studio, former NFL and Canadian Football League quarterback Warren Moon.

Welcome to both of you.

WARREN MOON, FORMER NFL QUARTERBACK: Thanks a lot, Paula.

ZAHN: Well, let's get started here. Mr. Bowen, first of all, what do you make of the ESPN statements?

LES BOWEN, "PHILADELPHIA DAILY NEWS": Well, it's really interesting to me because I spoke to ESPN yesterday and an ESPN spokesman was very -- almost truculent with me yesterday about this and was very vehemently arguing that this was a point about media and not about race. It was a sports media discussion, so on and so forth.

But there have been quite a few developments today, starting with Donovan McNabb holding his weekly Wednesday press conference at which he addressed this subject at length, and I thought eloquently. And in the wake of that, I think, ESPN has really been kind of scampering.

ZAHN: Well, it looks like we just lost one of our guests. So it's you and me tonight.

MOON: That was Rush that did that to him.

ZAHN: You're not surprised that ESPN would -- would temper its remarks later on, particularly after Donovan -- Donovan McNabb spoke?

MOON: No, I'm not. I think it's appropriate for them to do something like that because this thing has probably taken off bigger than they thought it would get when the comments were made on Sunday. And they -- at first they stood behind Rush and what he had to say, but now they've had to come out and kind of soften the line a little bit. And that's something that they have to do, I'm sure, as a network.

ZAHN: What was your reaction when you heard what Rush had said?

MOON: I was really disgusted by it, because as a quarterback coming up during the '70s and '80s, that I had to endure some of these same racial things, I thought we were over this by now. I thought racial comments about black quarterbacks had ended way back when.

I remember being in New York back in the late '80s and a reporter asked me one time after a game, Well, when, Warren, do you think you stopped being a black quarterback? And I -- I knew what he meant by that, because I'm still black and I'm a quarterback, but he meant by not having to answer the black quarterback questions or any of that any more.

And you would think a guy that has the credentials that Donovan McNabb has over the course of his five-year career, that he wouldn't even be questioned without his ability as a quarterback.

ZAHN: We've got company again. Mr. Bowen is back.

First of all, what was Mr. McNabb's reaction when you told him about what you perceived as this bombshell statement?

BOWEN: His reaction was very muted. Donovan is a very controlled, very careful person. He takes a lot of criticism being the quarterback of the Eagles. This is a really voracious sports market here. And, you know, he's in the public eye a lot. He has a very thick skin. So he was very measured in his response. He said a lot -- kind of like what Warren was just saying, that he was surprised that race would be an issue at this point, but that he didn't really want to comment very much until he had actually seen what had been said. And he said that it wouldn't bother him and he would go on, which, certainly, was something he also said today, but he also said a lot of other things today after having two days to think this over.

ZAHN: Yes. I don't think anybody would question your assessment there. He was very eloquent and we're going to listen to another small part of that news conference from earlier today.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONOVAN MCNABB, EAGLES QUARTERBACK: My -- my worries were not about what was said, but just -- what about the people who, you know, who were watching? You know, what about them? You know, what about, you know, the African-American homes, people -- you know, the kids, the parents? You know, when they hear something like that, you know, -- it's on national TV, on ESPN. What do they think?

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ZAHN: What about that, Warren? What do -- what do kids hear?

MOON: I know what he's talking about. These are young kids that are looking at him as a football player for the entertainment value of it and now they have to ask the serious questions to their parents, what is this talk about race? You know, why -- why is he being accused or being compared because of his skin color? And I think that's something that shouldn't have to be dealt with, especially in sports. It should be a little bit more purer than that.

ZAHN: Were you surprised not to hear more reaction from NFL leaders today, Les?

BOWEN: I don't -- I'm not sure the league really knows how to handle this. I think, you know, we didn't know how to handle it here in the Philadelphia media. It -- it happened Sunday. The Eagles were playing the Bills Sunday. We sort of heard secondhand that Rush Limbaugh had said something. We didn't really -- until somebody figured out Monday afternoon how to find an Internet clip that had this, we didn't know exactly what he had said. So it's been kind of a slow-developing story and I think a lot of people maybe didn't -- there's a perception that this is kind of what ESPN wanted when they hired Rush Limbaugh is to have this kind of controversy. So the more you hype this, the more you're playing into what they want you to do by hiring him.

And so I think a lot of people, including the league, have been a little bit edgy about this. But I do know that Paul Tagliabue, the NFL commissioner, called Donovan McNabb today, this afternoon, the Eagles said to express support for Donovan. I don't -- I'm not privy to exactly what was said.

ZAHN: Final thought on where you think this all goes? Of course, ESPN is getting flooded with e-mails about this. Some of those e-mails calling for Rush Limbaugh to be fired. MOON: Well, I would think he would have to come up with some type of apology to Donovan, no question about it because of the things that he said. And if he doesn't come with the apology, then I think he should be fired because there is no place any more for that in sports in our society. And he doesn't have the sports background. All of the comments that he made could be based on what Donovan did, and I don't think they're being based on what Donovan has done in his career. They're being based on skin color and that's not fair, especially today.

ZAHN: Thank you for dropping by tonight.

MOON: Thank you.

ZAHN: Les, good to see you, as well.

BOWEN: Thank you, Paula.

ZAHN: We'll be following your reporting in the days to come.

According to a new report, anti-sentiment among Muslims is getting worse. The U.S. needs to make some serious P.R. changes. We're going to look at what can be done to fix America's image problem.

And tomorrow, Democratic presidential hopeful John Edwards. Hear what he has to say about his campaign and some of his opponents. You'll also meet his wife tomorrow.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

ZAHN: Well, a government report out today says the U.S. has to radically changed its public diplomacy in order to fight shocking levels of anti-American sentiment in the Arab and Muslim worlds. So, what will it take to solve America's image problem? I'm joined by Fawaz Gerges, a professor at Middle East studies at Sarah Lawrence College. I am also joined by Shilbey Telhami, a senior fellow at the Saban Center at the Brookings Institution. He is one of the authors of today's report. Welcome to both of you.

SHIBLEY TELHAMI, SR. FELLOW, SABAN CENTER: Thank you.

ZAHN: First of all, professor, what is the most painful lessons, the most painful lesson Americans have to learn about this study?

TELHAMI: Now, which professor are you speaking with?

ZAHN: I forgot you have two. Let's start with Professor Telahomy.

TELHAMI: OK, by the way, I'm also a nonothodox (ph) professor at the University of Maryland, which is my primary home. But, first, let me put this in perspective in the context of this report, we were asked by Congress and the administration to review public diplomacy toward Arab and Muslim countries, and certainly level of resentment against America in those countries is really extraordinary. But let's put it in global perspective, we recognize, based on the information that we had, that there was similar resentment, maybe not to the same level in several parts of the world. So it's global issue pertaining to attitudes towards the U.S., but our focus was primarily in Arab and Muslim countries.

What is striking is not only the level of resentment, but the remarkably and absurdly inadequate amount of resources and energy, both human resources, as well as financial resources. The inadequacy of the structures to deal with the magnitude of the issue at hand, in relations between the United States and Arab and Muslim countries.

ZAHN: Well, let's talk to the other professor now. Let's talk about what the U.S. has spent some money on in trying to alter opinions in the Muslim world. We going to share with you now an ad that was quickly pulled from Arab television. Let's listen together.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I believe American people in general respect the Islamic faith. Muslims can practice their faith in totality here.

ABDUL HAMMUDAH, BAKER: Hello, my name is Abdul Hammudah. I am the owner of a bakery located here in Toledo, Ohio, the United States of America.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ZAHN: And Professor we should also, that is Gerges, mention that the State Department began publishing a magazine called "Hide" to bring American cultural news to the Middle East. Does any of this work?

FAWAZ GERGES, MIDDLE EAST EXPERT: Well, I think what we need to recognize here is that, as you know, since 9/11 a misleading thesis has gained currency in the United States. The thesis goes like this, Arabs and Muslims hate America because they are jealous and resentful of America's economic achievements, America's greatness and America democracy. Well, it's nonsense.

I think Arabs and Muslims are deeply attracted to the American idea, the American dream. Many Arabs would like to come to America and live in America and study in America. I think what the study shows, and this is really the crux of the matter, the study shows that the problem lies -- the roots of the problem -- lie in foreign policy, rather than really in society, civilization or American culture.

And that neither spin nor propaganda will do. And what the study shows and this is really quite fascinating. Is that what's needed is a radical transformation, not only how American diplomacy in that part of the world, but I would argue a radical transformation of American foreign policies in that part of the world, because the image itself, the negative image in the Arab world, is the result of particular policies rather than Arabs and Muslim perceptions of America as a civilization and society.

ZAHN: Professor Tehlami, you get the last word. Are you as pessimistic? I know you called for more money to be spent on these kinds of efforts, but are you as pessimistic as your colleague there about these efforts working long term?

TEHLAMI: The report, by the way, recognizes that policies are core and that's an issue the report does not really tackle. Beyond policy, there's a lot can be done. There is -- if you compare, for example, what the United States give in scholarships in 1980 was 20,000, today it's 900. If you consider what is being spent on public diplomacies for exchanges, and cultural exchanges, understandings, building bridges. In terms of outreach programs, when you strip the budget from its $150 million to the Muslim world to 1.5 billion Muslims, ultimately, only it's $25 million that are being spent on outreach programs is extraordinary.

And I think, while policy is a very important issue, you still need to build relations. You need to have relations across the people, not just across governments. You need to have a relationship that allows it to understand policy. You need to have feedback from the field to know if your policies work or don't work and you need to be able to communicate policy honestly. So that people know where you are and people believe that there isn't a huge gap between what you say and what you do. I think all of that is important in the recommendations in the report are essentially for changing the structure, increasing resources and specific programs to make that happen.

ZAHN: Something we'll be following closely from here. Professors, Gerges and Telahmi, thank you.

TELHAMI: Pleasure.

ZAHN: Money can't buy you happiness, or can it? Well, comedian Lewis Black has an opinion or two on that topic. He will join us next as we take a look at new research on what really is supposed to make us happy.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Keep the change.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You're the rich one? The one who drinks? How does it feel to have all of that money?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It feels great.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: A dumb question.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ZAHN: Despite his answer, many of us know by now that it took more than money in the end to make Arthur happy, and a new report says the same may be true in real life. An article in the latest issues of "New Scientist" magazine analyzed reasons to be cheerful, and ranked them based on real scientific research. So we decided to do some analysis of our own. We are joined tonight by "The Daily Show's" Lewis Black. He has a couple of new projects, the DVD, "Lewis Black Unleashed," and the CD, "Lewis Black: Rules of Enragement." Welcome, always good to see you.

LEWIS BLACK, COMEDIAN: Nice to see you.

ZAHN: So do you want to analyze this list? We'll start from the bottom up.

BLACK: Sure.

ZAHN: Let's look at reasons seven, eight, nine, 10. Good looks, seven, aging gracefully, eight, money, nine, intelligence, 10. These are the things that are supposed to be least likely to make us cheerful.

BLACK: Well, 10, intelligence. If you have any brains at all and you're happy living through these times, you're clinically insane. I mean, that's just a given. If anybody with a wit of sense isn't miserable at this point...

ZAHN: Do you buy the money thing?

BLACK: Money is -- the only thing about money I think is you can buy like enough homes that you could be -- you could certainly -- you could redecorate them in different colors and moods for yourself. You could have like a bowling alley in one, if that's what helps. Money doesn't -- you've got to be nuts to think that money makes people happy. I know some miserable, miserable rich kids.

ZAHN: And you could buy some $6,000 shower curtains.

BLACK: Yes, exactly. Or a $6,000 umbrella stand, which is the winner.

ZAHN: Let's analyze the middle of the list now, four, five, six. Desire less, do good deeds, religion.

BLACK: OK. Kind of shocked by this.

ZAHN: So doing good deeds are higher on the list than money and intelligence.

BLACK: Well, good looks is just, you know, in this culture, you can almost buy that stuff now. But religion is kind of shocking at six, isn't it? I mean, when you see -- when you watch "The 700 Club," these people seem ecstatic, don't they?

ZAHN: People have strong convictions in faith, Lewis.

BLACK: I know they do.

ZAHN: And that does bring them contentment.

BLACK: I know, but it seems odd that it would be six. Don't you think they would put -- don't you think religion would make it higher? I mean, if you had absolute faith?

ZAHN: Well, what would be on the top of your list? BLACK: The top of my list would be, I think, well, sex, I think.

ZAHN: That was kind of missing on this list.

BLACK: How do you skip that?

ZAHN: And marriage was kind of like four on the list, I think. Two.

BLACK: Two. Which is unbelievable.

ZAHN: Because so many marriages fail?

BLACK: Fifty percent of them fail. So that means you've got to be just as happy being single as you are being married. If half the marriages fail. You know, and everyone who is single looks at people who are married and go, oh, I wish I had that. Everybody who is married is going, I wish I had their life.

ZAHN: We have got to look at your three and four. Enhancements and pets.

BLACK: Well, enhancements are, well, alcohol and drugs, OK.

ZAHN: We thought you were talking about plastic additions to one's body, those kind of enhancements.

BLACK: No. I mean, there are people -- you know, the whole movie "Arthur" is based on the fact that this guy is just liquored up. And pets -- if you can find a pet and you can sleep with a pet, hello, that has got to be be ecstasy.

ZAHN: We love your list, Lewis Black. Thank you for spending a little time with us this evening.

Solving a decade's old mystery, World War II airmen shot down over the Pacific and a very famous survivor.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

ZAHN: Now to a drama that has lasted almost 60 years. It is the story of what happened to eight American pilots shot down during World War II by the Japanese. They were captured and tortured so horribly, the details were covered up by both the Japanese and the U.S. government. Their stories and the parallels to the story of one downed pilot who survived, a pilot named George Bush, are being told in a new book, called "Flyboys." Best-selling author James Bradley has uncovered this lost piece of history, and we sat down yesterday.

I asked him about former President Bush, who lost two crewmen when his plane was shot down and to this day remains haunted by that.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

JAMES BRADLEY, AUTHOR, "FLYBOYS": I was interviewing him once, and he asked me if I knew anything more about his two crewmen. I said, Mr. President, I'm sorry I don't have any more information. And then with a pained look on his face he said, "it plagues me still today if I gave those guys enough time to get out." And then he was quiet for a second. He stood up. I went back to putting my notes away, and then when he didn't walk away, I looked up and he was standing by the window and he was looking at the sky and he said, "I think about those guys all the time."

ZAHN: And in fact, we went back to the exact spot on the ocean where he was shot down.

GEORGE HERBERT WALKER BUSH, FORMER PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: This is a luxurious (UNINTELLIGIBLE).

ZAHN: He left two wreaths in their honor, which is a very powerful part of this documentary.

BRADLEY: The truth is that 20-year-old George Bush risked his own life, without a doubt, to try to get those guys out of the plane. The plane was burning, no one knows exactly what happened, but he did try his best. But that doesn't matter. In war, there's always survivor's guilt.

ZAHN: What is the worst thing that happened to those pilots?

BRADLEY: They were downed, they were killed, they were beheaded. And then there were three very brutal Japanese officers on this island who wanted to engage in what I call "spirit cannibalism," and these boys were cannibalized. They had their livers eaten.

ZAHN: President Bush talked very openly about what they had seen in films, and there was a real threat of cannibalism. I guess I am amazed that these stories remained secret for so many years.

BRADLEY: Well, it was really very few instances, actually. Beheading was a much bigger danger for a pilot. Pilots were winning the war. Pilots were bringing mechanized war to Japan, and there was nothing much they could do about it. They were frustrated, and when they got their hands on a pilot, many of those pilots did not survive.

ZAHN: Some of the men who didn't survive have some very powerful legacies.

BRADLEY: Well, Warner O. Vaughn (ph) was a Texan, just like President Bush, eventually. Warner O. Vaughn (ph) was a ladies' man. At the age of 21, he enlisted as a flyboy. He found himself out in the Pacific. He was bombing Chchijima (ph), he was shot down. They brought him on shore.

I talked to his interrogator. His interrogator said at one point, "Warren, we know you know more than you're telling us." And Warren looked them in the eye and said, "you're right, and you can kill me but I'm not going to tell you anything more."

Warren was assigned to a radio station to help decode American messages. He was sitting next to a Japanese soldier. They formed a friendship, two boys in war, one American, one Japanese. Warren was taken and he was beheaded after a month of this friendship. The friend felt so badly, he thought, I have to do something to memorialize Warren O. Vaughn (ph). So he went back to Japan, and in Japan he took Warren's name as his own first name, but that was the first call I made in my search for the flyboys. When I called this Japanese man in Tokyo, 56 years after the fact, he answered his phone, "hello, this is Warren."

(END VIDEOTAPE)

ZAHN: Some powerful World War II legacies. Thanks so much for being with us tonight. We'll be back again tomorrow.

END

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New Report Shows Alarming Anti-American Sentiment In Arab Countries>


Aired October 1, 2003 - 20:00   ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
PAULA ZAHN, CNN ANCHOR: Amid growing calls for a special counsel to investigate the leak of a CIA's operative's identity, the White House staff is being offered up for lie detector tests.
Trapped at the end of the Earth, until a daring rescue flight into the teeth of the howling Antarctic winter saved his life. Tonight, in his first TV interview, one man's story of survival.

And the scientific pursuit of happiness, surprising answers to what really makes us happy. Here's a hint: Money, brains and good looks are not on the list.

Good evening. Welcome. Glad to have you with us tonight.

Also ahead, we'll see what has changed for the more than five million Iraqi children who returned to school today for the first time since the U.S. invasion.

We'll also look at why Muslim towards America has reached shocking new levels since the wars in Afghanistan and Iraq.

And story shrouded in secrecy for nearly 60 years involving eight American pilots shot down during World War II, a mystery only now being revealed, and the parallels to the story of one young Naval pilot who was also shot down, who survived and became president.

First, though, here are some of the headlines you need to know right now.

For the first time they were arrested nearly a year ago, sniper suspects John Allen Muhammad and Lee Boyd Malvo have come face to face. The 18-year-old Malvo was on the stand today during a pretrial hearing for Muhammad. Witnesses say Muhammad appeared to stare at Malvo as he testified. Malvo answered a few basic questions before asserting his Fifth Amendment rights.

The Washington Redskins get to keep their nickname. A federal judge has overruled a decision revoking the football team's trademark. The judge said there wasn't enough to conclude the name is disparaging to Native Americans.

And the Republican has reached a milestone. The party has gained more than one million new donors since President Bush took office in the year 2000. The figure beats a record set during the two terms of President Reagan. Who told columnist Robert Novak the name of a CIA operative? The Justice Department is investigating that leak. Congressional Democrats want a special counsel appointed. The operative's husband, former ambassador Joseph Wilson, has been suggesting that President Bush's senior adviser, Karl Rove, at the minimum, would have condoned the leak. Both Rove and Novak deny the leak came from Rove. The White House calls those allegations ridiculous.

To put this all into perspective this evening, "In Focus," I'm joined from Austin, Texas, by Wayne Slater. He is the co-author of a book about Karl Rove called "Bush's Brain."

Welcome back to the broadcast. Good to see you again.

WAYNE SLATER, AUTHOR, "BUSH'S BRAIN": Good to see you, Paula.

ZAHN: So you have known Mr. Rove for some 20 years. When you heard this allegation that he could in some way be involved with this leak to at least six correspondents, did you buy it?

SLATER: Well, I wasn't surprised.

Now, again, I don't know who leaked what to whom. Most people don't know the facts here. And both Bob Novak and Karl Rove have said it didn't happen. But I have to say that it certainly was consistent with the Karl Rove that I know. If he didn't do this, he certainly has a pattern of activity over the 15 years, 20 years, that I've known him where he has done similar things.

ZAHN: Now, he has actually leaked you information over the years.

SLATER: He has.

ZAHN: What was the quality of that information you were given?

SLATER: Oh, excellent, fantastic.

Look, Karl Rove was a phenomenal political figure. He's a relentless political operator in Texas and has been since the early 1980s. He gave me a lot of information. Some of it was minor. Some of it was major and in some cases destroyed the political careers of Texas politicians. One thing he has never done to me is given me any information in which a law was broken, however.

That, I think, makes this episode substantially different than the scores of cases where Karl has given me information in the past and other reporters here in Texas.

ZAHN: So what you're saying, Wayne, is you think he's too savvy of a politician to push it that far?

SLATER: Well, he is relentless.

Let me repeat that word, and it is a polite word. He's an extraordinary political figure, who, over the years, has talked about all kinds of things, the personal lives, the business lives, the practices and so forth of political figures. But he is so smart, he is so good, he is such an experienced operator, while it would not surprise me if ultimately Karl were the leaker or was part of a process that knew about this leaking in the White House, it would, on the other hand, surprise me that he, being so smart, would go cross this line.

This is very serious. This is obviously blowing the cover of a CIA operative and possibly affecting the security of the country. I think Karl Rove is smart enough to know: I got to think before I would ever do something like that.

ZAHN: The president has made it very clear that he thinks whoever is responsible for this should get nailed for it. If there is a scenario where it is discovered that Karl Rove was involved in any way, whether it was the actual leaking itself or the condoning of the leak, do you see a situation where the president would fire him?

SLATER: Absolutely.

The president would fire Karl Rove if and when the police arrive with a conviction and chains to haul him away, or, short of that, if Karl were to acknowledge that, yes, indeed, after all was done and said: I was the leaker. The president would have no choice.

But I have to say, Karl Rove was an instrumental part in building the entire governorship of George Bush, in fashioning the presidential campaign, and in governing matters, especially domestic matters in the White House. He is an intricate part, not simply an attachment, a political operative who was attached and joined the campaign at some point.

He was at George Bush's side even before George Bush knew he was a political candidate for governor. And so it would take an extraordinary moment, an extraordinary moment, for this governor to cut the reins and let Karl Rove go away. And short of an admission or short of absolute evidence, this president will stick by Karl Rove. That's what I've seen in the past.

ZAHN: Wayne Slater, thanks for stopping by to share your thoughts with us this evening. Appreciate it.

And the question of who leaked the CIA operative's name has turned into a huge political story inside Washington's Beltway, but will it resonate around the country and cost the president public support?

In Washington to discuss it are "TIME" magazine columnist Joe Klein, along with Doyle McManus of "The Los Angeles Times." With me in New York, our own legal analysis, Jeffrey Toobin, who happens to be the author of many books, but "A Vast Conspiracy," a book about the Clinton era special counsel investigation.

Welcome to all three of you.

Doyle, I want to start with you this evening. Walk us through some of the more significant developments of the day.

DOYLE MCMANUS, "THE LOS ANGELES TIMES": Well, Paula, I think today, we saw a couple of things happen.

One is that the partisan battle heated up a little bit. We saw the first signs of a counterattack from Republicans on the credibility of Joe Wilson, the former ambassador, whose wife is the CIA operative whose identity was blown, Republican Party operatives saying that, Joe Wilson was irresponsible when he named Karl Rove and that we ought to look into the fact that Joe Wilson appears to be a supporter of Senator John Kerry, the Democratic senator from Massachusetts who is running for president.

The other thing we saw today was I think significant was the beginnings of the outline of a defense strategy from the White House. We heard from Scott McClellan, the White House press secretary, that, for example, we ought to focus only on whether classified information was released. For example, if Karl Rove later on commented on the Novak column, that's not a violation of the law.

And the second thing we heard from the White House was that the release of this information would only be a crime if the person who released it knew that the CIA operative's identity was classified. If this was an act that was unwitting or unknowing, then it might not be a crime.

ZAHN: Joe Klein, I'd love for you to walk through what happened before and what happened today. We're going to put up on the screen some excerpts from Bob Novak's columns for you to examine.

His first column, of course, on this matter went out in July -- quote -- "I didn't dig it out. They thought it was significant. They gave me the name. I used it."

And then this is what Bob Novak wrote in his column today: "It was an offhand revelation from this official, who is no partisan gunslinger."

What do you make of it, Joe?

JOE KLEIN, CNN CONTRIBUTOR: Well, I think the main thing I make of it is, when you're saying that second quote -- I'll go back to the difference between the two in a second.

But when you're parsing that second quote, it seems that the person who gave him this story initially was not Karl Rove. It was someone else. My guess would be that Rove was the person who confirmed the story, if, indeed, he was involved. As for the difference between those two, there's a significant difference here.

And I saw Bob earlier on Wolf Blitzer's program on CNN. And he was kind of having a difficult time with the difference between those two quotes. He was, in fact, blaming the "Newsday" reporters for misquoting him. At a certain point, we journalists aren't too good when we're put on the spot in situations like this. And I think that a lot of us have been surprised by how insistent Bob has been about being public about this and talking about it so much.

ZAHN: Let me have us all listen to a small portion of that interview from Wolf's show earlier today to give an extra footnote here.

Let's listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP, "WOLF BLITZER REPORTS")

ROBERT NOVAK, CO-HOST, "CROSSFIRE": I'm not going to go any more description, but I did feel that the idea that this was some kind of a carefully arranged plot to destroy this woman and her husband, as far as I'm concerned, was nonsense. It didn't happen that way. And this kind of scandal that has perpetrated in Washington is Washington at its worst.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ZAHN: So, Joe, you're basically saying he's hurting himself by talking too much?

KLEIN: Yes.

But it's interesting that, when we had Washington at its worst during the last decade, an awful lot of Republicans didn't feel that way. In fact, they were perpetrating and calling for special prosecutors for people like Bruce Babbitt and Henry Cisneros and other Clinton administration figures for relatively minor crimes, and not even crimes, actually.

And the other thing that we should take from this is, rather than looking at these trees, we should look at the forest. And the forest here is a larger battle that the White House has been having with the CIA over the nature of the CIA's intelligence estimate for Iraq. The battle has been going on for more than a year. And this is the tip of that iceberg.

It's one of those incredible bureaucratic squabbles that you see from time to time.

ZAHN: Sure.

KLEIN: But, right now, it's between the White House and the CIA.

ZAHN: Let's bring Jeffrey into the discussion now.

You were a special prosecutor during the Iran-Contra era.

JEFFREY TOOBIN, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: Way back when, yes.

ZAHN: What is the White House in for if a special counsel is appointed?

TOOBIN: Just picture the beginnings of the scene. Every scrap of paper in connection with this matter, defined broadly, every e- mail, every phone record, every log of who was coming and going from the White House, not just Karl Rove, everyone involved in dealing with the press, that has all got to be collected and turned over. That's just the beginning.

Then you start with interviews. Today, we learned that they may do lie detector tests on Karl Rove and his colleagues. Again...

ZAHN: Does that make sense to you?

TOOBIN: Sure, it makes sense to you. If people are willing to do it -- if you're a prosecutor and people volunteer for a lie detector, sure. You can't force them to.

But then it gets even more complicated, because let's say you're a prosecutor and you think, this is a mess. I'm still not convinced. Well, let's impanel a grand jury. Let's have Karl Rove march through as many cameras as Hillary Clinton marched through when she testified before the grand jury and have him testify before the grand jury. It means people are hiring lawyers. And you never know where a criminal investigation is going to go.

ZAHN: And we be talking about this, if a presidential counsel is appointed, for another couple of years?

TOOBIN: Try six years for the Iran-Contra investigation. Try seven years for Kenneth Starr's Whitewater investigation, an investigation that included things like Filegate, Travelgate, Whitewater, which had no criminal aspect at all in the White House. Still, it took years to resolve.

ZAHN: Doyle, back to you for a final thought on what said the lines that are becoming quite apparent when it comes to the White House's defense and how that's shaping up.

MCMANUS: Well, this has clearly become a partisan issue, with each side sniping at each other.

But there is a deeper problem for the administration, in that there are Republicans, like Senator Chuck Hagel and Senator John McCain, who are saying, this is an issue that has to be investigated to its fullest. So I think we're going to see the White House, again, going back to that line of defense and saying, this may have been an inadvertent act by somebody and that not every disclosure is a criminal leak.

ZAHN: And I have to say, I have not been able to hear the last 20 second of what Doyle just had to say, because we were having a little audio problem.

Joe, give us a final thought.

KLEIN: Well, I think that I would be surprised if this thing lasts six years or seven years or eight years. I think that there are several names that are out there. The president -- it's his responsibility at this point to go to his top staff and say, "Was it you?" and to get this thing taken care of, because the damage to the administration if this goes on and on and on is going to be severe. Then you get into obstruction of justice issues and all the other nonsense that we have been going through for the last 10 or 15 years in this town.

ZAHN: Got to leave it there tonight, gentlemen.

Joe Klein, Doyle McManus, Jeffrey Toobin, thank you for dropping by.

For the first time, the man who endured a daring rescue from the South Pole is telling his story. We'll have an exclusive interview.

And a very special day for more than five billion children in Iraq, the first day of school since the war. Our cameras were there.

And think money can buy you happiness? Well, not according to the latest research. We're going to show you what science says will make you happy. Not that stuff.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

ZAHN: For the first time tonight, details of a daring rescue from the South Pole a little over 10 days ago. Research station worker Barry McCue was trapped at the bottom of the world, where it's winter right now. He was fighting bouts of excruciating pain from a medical condition that can be fatal.

He joins us from Chicago with an exclusive look at his ordeal and the rescue that may have saved his life.

Barry, welcome. How you feeling, first off?

BARRY MCCUE, RESCUED FROM SOUTH POLE: Well, I'm feeling real good. I saw my doctor today and I'm exactly where I should be at this point after my surgery.

ZAHN: Now, take us back to the initial attacks that you had and what point you realized that you had to get airlifted out of the pole to stay alive?

MCCUE: Well, the first attack was on August 25. It just came out of the blue. My stomach hurt just a lot.

It took me a while to realize I was the trouble. I finally decided I had to go see the doctor. When I went in there, here is this pale white guy week in his knees, took me and found out exactly what was wrong. It took him a couple hours. And he determined it was my gallbladder that was inflamed. And it was gangrenous at the time.

ZAHN: And so you basically were told you had to get out of there if you were going to stay alive?

MCCUE: Well, at that point, it was stable and it was OK. I had another attack a week later. And a couple days after that, my kidney took a hit from the infection. And, at that point, there was a huge conference that went on. They have this telemedicine system. And they broadcast it. They had surgeons in Galveston and Boston and Denver all looking at my ultrasound online, real-time. They determined that I had a real serious gallbladder problem and that, if it got any worse, it would be fatal.

So they started putting together a plan to extract me. Now, this is in the middle of the winter. There's no sun. It's minus-90 degrees. The wind are blowing. We've got blizzards on the coast. And so they had to plan this in a very careful and controlled manner, so that nobody else got hurt.

ZAHN: And how acutely aware you were aware of this very small window of opportunity your rescuers had?

MCCUE: I was actually very aware of it.

Understanding the weather, understanding the impact of the cold becomes a part of your daily life when you're at the South Pole. It's a real part of your environment. It's a little different.

ZAHN: Yes.

At the same time that you're worried about whether this rescue mission is going to work or not, you had to be concerned about the welfare of your children back home. You had lost your wife not long before that from a terrible, terrible tragedy.

MCCUE: An automobile accident, yes.

ZAHN: What did your kids know about your condition?

MCCUE: Actually, they knew quite a bit. The doctors were -- and, again, the ones in the states, the ones at the pole -- were all communicating. The RPSC, the Raytheon physician was in constant communication with my daughters, updating them, both to the status of the medevac and to my status. She probably knew more about my status and the medevac than I did, being there at the Pole, they were keeping so well informed,

ZAHN: And, Barry, when you look back at the miracle of your rescue itself, what was the most challenging part?

MCCUE: The most challenging part for me, really, was to do my job, which was to stay healthy, stay vertical and walking around, to not put pressure on all these other people, these hundreds of other people, the English at their research station in Rothera, who had to get their runway done in a blizzard, the South Pole, and the McMurdo workers who had to go out in minus-90 degrees and work outside putting together the systems necessary for the runway, those Canadian pilots coming down.

So the hardest part was me staying calm, a little fatalistic, understanding the best people in the world were doing the best they could do in the harshest environment in the world to get me out. There was a lot of heroes that did a lot of work to get me out of there.

ZAHN: I can only give you 10 seconds to answer this question. Did you think you might die there?

MCCUE: It was there. But, like I said, you had the best. The dice were going to roll. The best were working on it. So I didn't worry about it. I just hoped.

ZAHN: I would say you're one very lucky and blessed man. Thank you for sharing your story with us tonight.

MCCUE: Thank you for letting me. I appreciate it.

ZAHN: And we're happy that you got a good checkup at the doctor's today. Good luck to you, sir.

MCCUE: Thank you.

ZAHN: We hope you continue to stay healthy.

We're going to take a short break.

For the first time since the war, millions of Iraqi children went back to school today. We're going to show you how things have changed for them.

And we're going to hear how Rush Limbaugh is defending himself after that controversial comment about a black football star.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

ZAHN: Across Iraq, students headed off for the first day of school today. The U.S. has made education a cornerstone of the new Iraq, pouring millions into teachers' salaries, textbooks and fixing schools.

Michael Holmes accompanied one Iraqi girl and her family to the first day of school since the war broke out.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

MICHAEL HOLMES, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Breakfast time at the Sami (ph) household on a very special morning for 6-year-old Epra (ph). It's her first day of school.

The youngest of nine children, she'll be the first in the Sami family to start her education with a clean slate, one free of Saddam Hussein.

"I'm so excited," she tells us. "I can't wait to go."

School for Epra a brief walk and quantum leap in terms of her education, an education her mother hopes will be politics-free, in short, normal.

(on camera): What's not so normal on the first day of school is this: razor wire and tanks protecting Epra's school and its students.

(voice-over): It won't be here every day, of course, but American troops feared Epra's school just might be a target today. Inside, the kids mingle and talk of the day ahead.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE (through translator): I've heard that the curriculum will change, but I don't know if it has changed or not.

HOLMES: Aid money refurbished the school, filled the bullet holes and covered the political slogans, but it was a young student who cut the ribbon to begin this new chapter. It's just registration and orientation day today. Lessons begin on Saturday. But for Epra and her classmates, a warm welcome from the headmaster, Jabar al- Amiri.

JABAR AL-AMIRI, HEADMASTER (through translator): Welcome to the new school year. You have come to your new school. Hopefully, you'll be good students who will raise the level of education, who will serve your country and humanity.

HOLMES: Despite a scramble to print new Saddam-free textbooks, not all schools had them in time. Epra's teachers say, the textbooks here will still have the Iraqi leader and his thoughts inside the front cover, except, children themselves will be able to tear out those pages, if they want to. For the first time, they have the choice.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

HOLMES: And, Paula, as for those textbooks, UNESCO alone printing five million science and math books without Saddam Hussein's contribution on the inside, other agencies printing millions more. In all, 5.5 million Iraqi schoolchildren going back to school after a tumultuous summer no one would call a summer vacation -- Paula.

ZAHN: Yes, that's for darn sure.

Michael Holmes, thank you for taking us to school with you today.

Rush Limbaugh is facing a blitz of criticism tonight. Is he guilty of spewing racist thoughts or just practicing free speech? We're going to look at his controversial remarks about an NFL star.

And "Flyboys," the stories of nine U.S. airmen shot down during World War II. Eight of them were tortured and killed. The other became president of the United States.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

ZAHN: Welcome back.

Here are some of the headlines you need to know at this hour.

Israel's cabinet today OK'd new construction on the controversial security barrier separating Israeli and Palestinian territories. In a compromise, the plan calls for gaps in that fence. At the United Nations, the U.S. is circulating a draft resolution calling for authorization of a multi-national force for Iraq -- quote -- "under unified command." It says the job of running Iraq should be taken over by -- again, quoting -- "the evolving structures of the Iraqi interim administration." Those carefully chosen words are designed to attract international cooperation, money and troops.

Two U.S. soldiers died in separate attacks today in Iraq. There now have been 84 U.S. deaths from hostile action since the end of major combat was declared back on May 1.

Conservative radio commentator Rush Limbaugh has been branching out. This week, in his capacity as host of ESPN's Sunday NFL Countdown, Limbaugh criticized Philadelphia Eagles quarterback Donovan McNabb. He is now being blitzed by critics who say his remarks are racist.

First, let's listen to what Rush Limbaugh said.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

RUSH LIMBAUGH, RADIO TALK SHOW HOST: I think the sum total of what you're all saying is that Donovan McNabb is regressing. He's going backwards. And my -- I'm sorry to say -- I don't think he's been that good from the get-go. I think what we have here is a little social concern in the NFL. I think the media has been very desirous that a black quarterback do well.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Mm-Hmm.

LIMBAUGH: (UNINTELLIGIBLE) black coaches and black quarterbacks doing well.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ZAHN: Well, what a different a few hours can make. ESPN issued two statements today. The first stood by Limbaugh, basically saying that they hired him to stoke things up, that his comments were meant to basically inspire an audience to listen.

Well, now, the network has just released a statement saying, it is told the Limbaugh comments were insensitive and inappropriate.

Let's talk to the (UNINTELLIGIBLE) this evening.

In Philadelphia is Les Bowen. He covers the Eagles for "The Philadelphia Daily News" and was the first to tell Donovan McNabb about Rush Limbaugh's statement.

And here with me tonight in the studio, former NFL and Canadian Football League quarterback Warren Moon.

Welcome to both of you.

WARREN MOON, FORMER NFL QUARTERBACK: Thanks a lot, Paula.

ZAHN: Well, let's get started here. Mr. Bowen, first of all, what do you make of the ESPN statements?

LES BOWEN, "PHILADELPHIA DAILY NEWS": Well, it's really interesting to me because I spoke to ESPN yesterday and an ESPN spokesman was very -- almost truculent with me yesterday about this and was very vehemently arguing that this was a point about media and not about race. It was a sports media discussion, so on and so forth.

But there have been quite a few developments today, starting with Donovan McNabb holding his weekly Wednesday press conference at which he addressed this subject at length, and I thought eloquently. And in the wake of that, I think, ESPN has really been kind of scampering.

ZAHN: Well, it looks like we just lost one of our guests. So it's you and me tonight.

MOON: That was Rush that did that to him.

ZAHN: You're not surprised that ESPN would -- would temper its remarks later on, particularly after Donovan -- Donovan McNabb spoke?

MOON: No, I'm not. I think it's appropriate for them to do something like that because this thing has probably taken off bigger than they thought it would get when the comments were made on Sunday. And they -- at first they stood behind Rush and what he had to say, but now they've had to come out and kind of soften the line a little bit. And that's something that they have to do, I'm sure, as a network.

ZAHN: What was your reaction when you heard what Rush had said?

MOON: I was really disgusted by it, because as a quarterback coming up during the '70s and '80s, that I had to endure some of these same racial things, I thought we were over this by now. I thought racial comments about black quarterbacks had ended way back when.

I remember being in New York back in the late '80s and a reporter asked me one time after a game, Well, when, Warren, do you think you stopped being a black quarterback? And I -- I knew what he meant by that, because I'm still black and I'm a quarterback, but he meant by not having to answer the black quarterback questions or any of that any more.

And you would think a guy that has the credentials that Donovan McNabb has over the course of his five-year career, that he wouldn't even be questioned without his ability as a quarterback.

ZAHN: We've got company again. Mr. Bowen is back.

First of all, what was Mr. McNabb's reaction when you told him about what you perceived as this bombshell statement?

BOWEN: His reaction was very muted. Donovan is a very controlled, very careful person. He takes a lot of criticism being the quarterback of the Eagles. This is a really voracious sports market here. And, you know, he's in the public eye a lot. He has a very thick skin. So he was very measured in his response. He said a lot -- kind of like what Warren was just saying, that he was surprised that race would be an issue at this point, but that he didn't really want to comment very much until he had actually seen what had been said. And he said that it wouldn't bother him and he would go on, which, certainly, was something he also said today, but he also said a lot of other things today after having two days to think this over.

ZAHN: Yes. I don't think anybody would question your assessment there. He was very eloquent and we're going to listen to another small part of that news conference from earlier today.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONOVAN MCNABB, EAGLES QUARTERBACK: My -- my worries were not about what was said, but just -- what about the people who, you know, who were watching? You know, what about them? You know, what about, you know, the African-American homes, people -- you know, the kids, the parents? You know, when they hear something like that, you know, -- it's on national TV, on ESPN. What do they think?

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ZAHN: What about that, Warren? What do -- what do kids hear?

MOON: I know what he's talking about. These are young kids that are looking at him as a football player for the entertainment value of it and now they have to ask the serious questions to their parents, what is this talk about race? You know, why -- why is he being accused or being compared because of his skin color? And I think that's something that shouldn't have to be dealt with, especially in sports. It should be a little bit more purer than that.

ZAHN: Were you surprised not to hear more reaction from NFL leaders today, Les?

BOWEN: I don't -- I'm not sure the league really knows how to handle this. I think, you know, we didn't know how to handle it here in the Philadelphia media. It -- it happened Sunday. The Eagles were playing the Bills Sunday. We sort of heard secondhand that Rush Limbaugh had said something. We didn't really -- until somebody figured out Monday afternoon how to find an Internet clip that had this, we didn't know exactly what he had said. So it's been kind of a slow-developing story and I think a lot of people maybe didn't -- there's a perception that this is kind of what ESPN wanted when they hired Rush Limbaugh is to have this kind of controversy. So the more you hype this, the more you're playing into what they want you to do by hiring him.

And so I think a lot of people, including the league, have been a little bit edgy about this. But I do know that Paul Tagliabue, the NFL commissioner, called Donovan McNabb today, this afternoon, the Eagles said to express support for Donovan. I don't -- I'm not privy to exactly what was said.

ZAHN: Final thought on where you think this all goes? Of course, ESPN is getting flooded with e-mails about this. Some of those e-mails calling for Rush Limbaugh to be fired. MOON: Well, I would think he would have to come up with some type of apology to Donovan, no question about it because of the things that he said. And if he doesn't come with the apology, then I think he should be fired because there is no place any more for that in sports in our society. And he doesn't have the sports background. All of the comments that he made could be based on what Donovan did, and I don't think they're being based on what Donovan has done in his career. They're being based on skin color and that's not fair, especially today.

ZAHN: Thank you for dropping by tonight.

MOON: Thank you.

ZAHN: Les, good to see you, as well.

BOWEN: Thank you, Paula.

ZAHN: We'll be following your reporting in the days to come.

According to a new report, anti-sentiment among Muslims is getting worse. The U.S. needs to make some serious P.R. changes. We're going to look at what can be done to fix America's image problem.

And tomorrow, Democratic presidential hopeful John Edwards. Hear what he has to say about his campaign and some of his opponents. You'll also meet his wife tomorrow.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

ZAHN: Well, a government report out today says the U.S. has to radically changed its public diplomacy in order to fight shocking levels of anti-American sentiment in the Arab and Muslim worlds. So, what will it take to solve America's image problem? I'm joined by Fawaz Gerges, a professor at Middle East studies at Sarah Lawrence College. I am also joined by Shilbey Telhami, a senior fellow at the Saban Center at the Brookings Institution. He is one of the authors of today's report. Welcome to both of you.

SHIBLEY TELHAMI, SR. FELLOW, SABAN CENTER: Thank you.

ZAHN: First of all, professor, what is the most painful lessons, the most painful lesson Americans have to learn about this study?

TELHAMI: Now, which professor are you speaking with?

ZAHN: I forgot you have two. Let's start with Professor Telahomy.

TELHAMI: OK, by the way, I'm also a nonothodox (ph) professor at the University of Maryland, which is my primary home. But, first, let me put this in perspective in the context of this report, we were asked by Congress and the administration to review public diplomacy toward Arab and Muslim countries, and certainly level of resentment against America in those countries is really extraordinary. But let's put it in global perspective, we recognize, based on the information that we had, that there was similar resentment, maybe not to the same level in several parts of the world. So it's global issue pertaining to attitudes towards the U.S., but our focus was primarily in Arab and Muslim countries.

What is striking is not only the level of resentment, but the remarkably and absurdly inadequate amount of resources and energy, both human resources, as well as financial resources. The inadequacy of the structures to deal with the magnitude of the issue at hand, in relations between the United States and Arab and Muslim countries.

ZAHN: Well, let's talk to the other professor now. Let's talk about what the U.S. has spent some money on in trying to alter opinions in the Muslim world. We going to share with you now an ad that was quickly pulled from Arab television. Let's listen together.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I believe American people in general respect the Islamic faith. Muslims can practice their faith in totality here.

ABDUL HAMMUDAH, BAKER: Hello, my name is Abdul Hammudah. I am the owner of a bakery located here in Toledo, Ohio, the United States of America.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ZAHN: And Professor we should also, that is Gerges, mention that the State Department began publishing a magazine called "Hide" to bring American cultural news to the Middle East. Does any of this work?

FAWAZ GERGES, MIDDLE EAST EXPERT: Well, I think what we need to recognize here is that, as you know, since 9/11 a misleading thesis has gained currency in the United States. The thesis goes like this, Arabs and Muslims hate America because they are jealous and resentful of America's economic achievements, America's greatness and America democracy. Well, it's nonsense.

I think Arabs and Muslims are deeply attracted to the American idea, the American dream. Many Arabs would like to come to America and live in America and study in America. I think what the study shows, and this is really the crux of the matter, the study shows that the problem lies -- the roots of the problem -- lie in foreign policy, rather than really in society, civilization or American culture.

And that neither spin nor propaganda will do. And what the study shows and this is really quite fascinating. Is that what's needed is a radical transformation, not only how American diplomacy in that part of the world, but I would argue a radical transformation of American foreign policies in that part of the world, because the image itself, the negative image in the Arab world, is the result of particular policies rather than Arabs and Muslim perceptions of America as a civilization and society.

ZAHN: Professor Tehlami, you get the last word. Are you as pessimistic? I know you called for more money to be spent on these kinds of efforts, but are you as pessimistic as your colleague there about these efforts working long term?

TEHLAMI: The report, by the way, recognizes that policies are core and that's an issue the report does not really tackle. Beyond policy, there's a lot can be done. There is -- if you compare, for example, what the United States give in scholarships in 1980 was 20,000, today it's 900. If you consider what is being spent on public diplomacies for exchanges, and cultural exchanges, understandings, building bridges. In terms of outreach programs, when you strip the budget from its $150 million to the Muslim world to 1.5 billion Muslims, ultimately, only it's $25 million that are being spent on outreach programs is extraordinary.

And I think, while policy is a very important issue, you still need to build relations. You need to have relations across the people, not just across governments. You need to have a relationship that allows it to understand policy. You need to have feedback from the field to know if your policies work or don't work and you need to be able to communicate policy honestly. So that people know where you are and people believe that there isn't a huge gap between what you say and what you do. I think all of that is important in the recommendations in the report are essentially for changing the structure, increasing resources and specific programs to make that happen.

ZAHN: Something we'll be following closely from here. Professors, Gerges and Telahmi, thank you.

TELHAMI: Pleasure.

ZAHN: Money can't buy you happiness, or can it? Well, comedian Lewis Black has an opinion or two on that topic. He will join us next as we take a look at new research on what really is supposed to make us happy.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Keep the change.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You're the rich one? The one who drinks? How does it feel to have all of that money?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It feels great.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: A dumb question.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ZAHN: Despite his answer, many of us know by now that it took more than money in the end to make Arthur happy, and a new report says the same may be true in real life. An article in the latest issues of "New Scientist" magazine analyzed reasons to be cheerful, and ranked them based on real scientific research. So we decided to do some analysis of our own. We are joined tonight by "The Daily Show's" Lewis Black. He has a couple of new projects, the DVD, "Lewis Black Unleashed," and the CD, "Lewis Black: Rules of Enragement." Welcome, always good to see you.

LEWIS BLACK, COMEDIAN: Nice to see you.

ZAHN: So do you want to analyze this list? We'll start from the bottom up.

BLACK: Sure.

ZAHN: Let's look at reasons seven, eight, nine, 10. Good looks, seven, aging gracefully, eight, money, nine, intelligence, 10. These are the things that are supposed to be least likely to make us cheerful.

BLACK: Well, 10, intelligence. If you have any brains at all and you're happy living through these times, you're clinically insane. I mean, that's just a given. If anybody with a wit of sense isn't miserable at this point...

ZAHN: Do you buy the money thing?

BLACK: Money is -- the only thing about money I think is you can buy like enough homes that you could be -- you could certainly -- you could redecorate them in different colors and moods for yourself. You could have like a bowling alley in one, if that's what helps. Money doesn't -- you've got to be nuts to think that money makes people happy. I know some miserable, miserable rich kids.

ZAHN: And you could buy some $6,000 shower curtains.

BLACK: Yes, exactly. Or a $6,000 umbrella stand, which is the winner.

ZAHN: Let's analyze the middle of the list now, four, five, six. Desire less, do good deeds, religion.

BLACK: OK. Kind of shocked by this.

ZAHN: So doing good deeds are higher on the list than money and intelligence.

BLACK: Well, good looks is just, you know, in this culture, you can almost buy that stuff now. But religion is kind of shocking at six, isn't it? I mean, when you see -- when you watch "The 700 Club," these people seem ecstatic, don't they?

ZAHN: People have strong convictions in faith, Lewis.

BLACK: I know they do.

ZAHN: And that does bring them contentment.

BLACK: I know, but it seems odd that it would be six. Don't you think they would put -- don't you think religion would make it higher? I mean, if you had absolute faith?

ZAHN: Well, what would be on the top of your list? BLACK: The top of my list would be, I think, well, sex, I think.

ZAHN: That was kind of missing on this list.

BLACK: How do you skip that?

ZAHN: And marriage was kind of like four on the list, I think. Two.

BLACK: Two. Which is unbelievable.

ZAHN: Because so many marriages fail?

BLACK: Fifty percent of them fail. So that means you've got to be just as happy being single as you are being married. If half the marriages fail. You know, and everyone who is single looks at people who are married and go, oh, I wish I had that. Everybody who is married is going, I wish I had their life.

ZAHN: We have got to look at your three and four. Enhancements and pets.

BLACK: Well, enhancements are, well, alcohol and drugs, OK.

ZAHN: We thought you were talking about plastic additions to one's body, those kind of enhancements.

BLACK: No. I mean, there are people -- you know, the whole movie "Arthur" is based on the fact that this guy is just liquored up. And pets -- if you can find a pet and you can sleep with a pet, hello, that has got to be be ecstasy.

ZAHN: We love your list, Lewis Black. Thank you for spending a little time with us this evening.

Solving a decade's old mystery, World War II airmen shot down over the Pacific and a very famous survivor.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

ZAHN: Now to a drama that has lasted almost 60 years. It is the story of what happened to eight American pilots shot down during World War II by the Japanese. They were captured and tortured so horribly, the details were covered up by both the Japanese and the U.S. government. Their stories and the parallels to the story of one downed pilot who survived, a pilot named George Bush, are being told in a new book, called "Flyboys." Best-selling author James Bradley has uncovered this lost piece of history, and we sat down yesterday.

I asked him about former President Bush, who lost two crewmen when his plane was shot down and to this day remains haunted by that.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

JAMES BRADLEY, AUTHOR, "FLYBOYS": I was interviewing him once, and he asked me if I knew anything more about his two crewmen. I said, Mr. President, I'm sorry I don't have any more information. And then with a pained look on his face he said, "it plagues me still today if I gave those guys enough time to get out." And then he was quiet for a second. He stood up. I went back to putting my notes away, and then when he didn't walk away, I looked up and he was standing by the window and he was looking at the sky and he said, "I think about those guys all the time."

ZAHN: And in fact, we went back to the exact spot on the ocean where he was shot down.

GEORGE HERBERT WALKER BUSH, FORMER PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: This is a luxurious (UNINTELLIGIBLE).

ZAHN: He left two wreaths in their honor, which is a very powerful part of this documentary.

BRADLEY: The truth is that 20-year-old George Bush risked his own life, without a doubt, to try to get those guys out of the plane. The plane was burning, no one knows exactly what happened, but he did try his best. But that doesn't matter. In war, there's always survivor's guilt.

ZAHN: What is the worst thing that happened to those pilots?

BRADLEY: They were downed, they were killed, they were beheaded. And then there were three very brutal Japanese officers on this island who wanted to engage in what I call "spirit cannibalism," and these boys were cannibalized. They had their livers eaten.

ZAHN: President Bush talked very openly about what they had seen in films, and there was a real threat of cannibalism. I guess I am amazed that these stories remained secret for so many years.

BRADLEY: Well, it was really very few instances, actually. Beheading was a much bigger danger for a pilot. Pilots were winning the war. Pilots were bringing mechanized war to Japan, and there was nothing much they could do about it. They were frustrated, and when they got their hands on a pilot, many of those pilots did not survive.

ZAHN: Some of the men who didn't survive have some very powerful legacies.

BRADLEY: Well, Warner O. Vaughn (ph) was a Texan, just like President Bush, eventually. Warner O. Vaughn (ph) was a ladies' man. At the age of 21, he enlisted as a flyboy. He found himself out in the Pacific. He was bombing Chchijima (ph), he was shot down. They brought him on shore.

I talked to his interrogator. His interrogator said at one point, "Warren, we know you know more than you're telling us." And Warren looked them in the eye and said, "you're right, and you can kill me but I'm not going to tell you anything more."

Warren was assigned to a radio station to help decode American messages. He was sitting next to a Japanese soldier. They formed a friendship, two boys in war, one American, one Japanese. Warren was taken and he was beheaded after a month of this friendship. The friend felt so badly, he thought, I have to do something to memorialize Warren O. Vaughn (ph). So he went back to Japan, and in Japan he took Warren's name as his own first name, but that was the first call I made in my search for the flyboys. When I called this Japanese man in Tokyo, 56 years after the fact, he answered his phone, "hello, this is Warren."

(END VIDEOTAPE)

ZAHN: Some powerful World War II legacies. Thanks so much for being with us tonight. We'll be back again tomorrow.

END

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New Report Shows Alarming Anti-American Sentiment In Arab Countries>