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Paula Zahn Now
Mad Cow Disease Hits America; D.C. Sniper Avoids Death Penalty; Targets of Terror
Aired December 23, 2003 - 20:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
DARYN KAGAN, GUEST HOST: "In Focus" tonight: The first confirmed case of mad cow disease in the U.S., can it be contained?
The jury says no death penalty for the 18-year-old convicted in the D.C. sniper spree.
New intelligence on specific terror threats in the U.S., the weapons that might be used and the targets, this time, not just big cities.
Good evening. Thanks for joining us. Paula Zahn is off tonight.
We have a lot to cover, but, first, here is what you need to know right now.
The first case of mad cow disease on U.S. soil is suspected in Washington state. The Department of Agriculture says that the cow turned up at a slaughterhouse, but the meat did not reach the food chain. The farm that it came from has been quarantined.
Joining us now, our medical correspondent Dr. Sanjay Gupta.
Sanjay, good evening.
DR. SANJAY GUPTA, CNN MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: Good evening.
KAGAN: People, millions of families across America are going to be sitting down tonight and over the next few nights to a holiday dinner looking at perhaps that beef on their plate and wondering, is it safe to eat this?
GUPTA: Well, the short answer is probably yes.
And there's a couple of points actually we're just learning as well. That meat, some of that meat in fact appears did get to two processing plants. Now, we're talking specifically about the muscle cuts of beef from this particular cow. The reason I emphasize that is because that's usually not a contagious part of the cow. What they're most concerned about is brain and spinal cord stuff. In fact, a little earlier, you mentioned Secretary Veneman.
This is what she had to say.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
ANN VENEMAN, SECRETARY OF AGRICULTURE: It's very important to recognize that this disease does not spread easily. One of the things that people are very confused about, and I found it as we went through the situation when Canada had a single case of BSE, is, a lot of times, people don't understand that this is not foot-and-mouth disease. It's not that highly contagious disease that you often see spread so quickly.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GUPTA: So, when you're talking about this type of mad cow disease, often not very contagious. Is it going to be a big deal to humans? Almost certainly not. Is it going to be a big deal to cows? Probably not as well. People are going to be scared of this, no question about it, though.
KAGAN: So why are they scared? What happens if the cow gets it? And what happens if a person gets it?
GUPTA: Well, certainly, you've seen the images now. I think most people have seen the images of what happens when a cow gets it. It's sort of the stumbling cow. They're sort of falling down. It affects the brain and the spinal cord primarily. And it certainly scared lots of people and killed lots of cows in Canada, as well as England in the 1990s.
Now, as far as humans go, there's only been about 100 cases around the world in about 15 different countries, certainly not a very contagious thing in terms of humans. It is a problem, though, if you think about cows getting out there into the beef supply and people being scared of it. Are they really going to get sick from it? Probably not.
KAGAN: Well, this could have a huge impact perhaps on the beef industry. We're going to talk about that later in the hour. But thanks for giving us the medical and the human side.
Dr. Sanjay Gupta, thank you for that.
Well, now to a nation on alert. Signs of high security are nearly everywhere in the U.S. tonight. Terrorist chatter means that tighter security is up for Los Angeles, Las Vegas, San Francisco, New York and Washington, even for the mostly rural tidewater area of Virginia. It was easy to see the results of the orange alert in the big cities. Extra police and National Guardsmen were called out to patrol crowded areas.
Airport security is tighter. Gunboats have taken to the coastal and harbor areas. And more watchful eyes are underground to protect the subway and rail systems.
Deborah Feyerick joins us now for an overview of a nation on alert.
Deb, good evening.
DEBORAH FEYERICK, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Good evening, Daryn. Well, security everywhere ratcheted up to extraordinary levels. U.S. officials are warning several governments and airlines worldwide that they need to tighten their security, this after what they call credible information that terrorists might try to use international- based planes in some sort of suicide attack against the United States.
Now, anti-aircraft missiles that could be used to shoot down planes were put in place around the Washington, D.C. area. Government sources are telling CNN that some flight crews from other countries have been stopped and questioned in recent days. At the Pentagon today, there was a drill practicing to keep the government open in the event of some sort of major terror attack.
The head of the Joint Chiefs of Staff says combat aircraft also went on alert at some military bases. Those could be scrambled at any moment. Now, security was high at the targets that you mentioned, the bridges, the power plants, the landmarks, all of these with extra eyes everywhere in New York, New Jersey and Connecticut.
State troopers were patrolling commuter trains, the first time that anything like this has really happened. Trains don't have a lot of security in general. The FBI has been working overtime. They're interrogating sources, trying to flesh out the threat picture. And the cities of biggest concern right now include Los Angeles, New York, Washington, also Las Vegas. These are some of the cities that 9/11 terrorists spent time in.
Sources tell CNN, Intelligence was received about the San Francisco area and about an area in Virginia. But, right now, there is so much out there that they're really trying to determine what is real, what is fact, what is fiction, what is hearsay. And there's a lot of work to be done. And, clearly, they're trying to do it as fast as they can.
KAGAN: Which leads to more scariness and terror across the country and people not knowing where this might happen.
There's a huge cost on the psyche of a nation, also just in terms of the budgets of local governments as they try to deal with this orange alert. Any idea how long the country might stay at orange?
FEYERICK: Right now, officials are saying that it could be past January 1, that they're going to continue this into the new year. As you mentioned, the budget, it's extraordinary.
For some cities, to go to orange alert, it costs them $1 million an hour in extra overtime. And also the psyche, people don't know what to believe, how much to believe, what is credible, what is not credible.
Clearly, there's an urgency now that I think many people have not felt in quite some time. But, again, when officials step out and say there's credible information we're getting, you've got to stand up. You've got to take notice. And when Mr. Ridge comes out and says this could be bigger than 9/11, well, clearly you stand up and take notice.
KAGAN: Yes, it gets some attention.
FEYERICK: Yes.
KAGAN: Deb, thank you for that. That's our Deb Feyerick.
Much more on the terror alert is coming up ahead, including concern that al Qaeda might want to use international airline flights coming to the U.S. to launch attacks.
We turn now to the sniper case. A jury in Chesapeake, Virginia, decided the life of Lee Boyd Malvo should be spared. Jurors could have recommended the death penalty. Instead, they decided, the 18- year-old D.C. area sniper could serve life in prison without parole.
We put this "In Focus" now with our Jeanne Meserve. She has been following the sniper trial. She joins us this evening from Washington -- Jeanne.
JEANNE MESERVE, CNN HOMELAND SECURITY CORRESPONDENT: Hi, Daryn.
KAGAN: What can you tell us about the verdict and how it was reached?
MESERVE: Well, we can't tell you really anything about how it was reached.
The jury foreman came out and gave a very quick statement, only a couple of lines long. It gave absolutely no insight into their decision-making process. However, prosecutors and defense attorneys have both said that they think Malvo's youth played a factor here. And prosecutor Robert Horan also said Christmas week may have been a factor here. The jury might not have wanted to give a death penalty on what is essentially Christmas Eve.
KAGAN: Besides the Christmas Eve factor, you did mention his age. There was a lot of reasons, a lot of factors that went into Virginia being selected as the place for the first two trials to take place. Very high on that list was that this state does allow the death penalty for somebody as young as Lee Boyd Malvo.
MESERVE: That is exactly why it was picked by the attorney general. And the question is now, where is he going to put the next trial? As we know, a number of jurisdictions and prosecutors have lined up to take their crack at Lee Malvo. As far as attorneys involved in this case know now, it will be a decision made by the Justice Department, unclear where they're going to put it.
KAGAN: We have also with us our senior legal analyst Jeffrey Toobin, working a long day here today.
You have been talking with us throughout this trial in particular that the defense had been sowing the seeds for this type of defense all along, in going for the innocent by the reason of insanity defense, really not going to for that, but really for this decision today. JEFFREY TOOBIN, CNN SR. LEGAL ANALYST: This was really a brilliantly tried case by the defense, because what they did was, they raised an insanity defense throughout the trial, calling a series of mental health experts, saying that Malvo had been brainwashed by Muhammad.
It really was a pretty hopeless defense in the guilt phase. Brainwashing is not something that really counts as legal insanity. But it was a very good argument. The same jury, of course, decides the penalty phase. And those jurors heard over and over again how this 17-year-old not only was young, in and of himself, but was so dominated by an older man.
And I think the combination of the two, the youth and the domination by the older person, clearly had a big impact on the jury.
KAGAN: Jeanne, I want to bring you back here and go to your point about this being a Christmas week.
We're on the eve of Christmas Eve. And, as you said, the prosecutor came out and said, we try to never have a case Christmas week. Was there any kind of control over that? The trial lasted, what, seven or eight weeks?
MESERVE: It was long. It lasted about six weeks.
There had been some discussion at one point about moving it back a little bit, in part to make it easier for the mental health experts, who had to interview Lee Malvo. The judge made the decision not to do that. She wanted to keep this trial on track on a specific time period, because this was moved down from Fairfax to Chesapeake. It was an imposition on that court. She wanted to move it along.
The prosecutor, Robert Horan, said repeatedly, he was going to have it done by Christmas. That was his goal. And perhaps it would have been even more complicated if it had gone longer, because you would have had an extended break here. If they hadn't reached a verdict today, they would have gone to their homes and families for a break until next Monday. And that would have been difficult to deal with, too.
TOOBIN: That strikes me as sour grapes on the part of the prosecutors. I don't buy that this jury
(CROSSTALK)
KAGAN: As a former prosecutor, you're saying that.
TOOBIN: I think the jury is smart enough to know. This sentence is -- Christmas, I think, is pretty much irrelevant.
(CROSSTALK)
KAGAN: You think so?
TOOBIN: Absolutely. KAGAN: Yes, but it's one thing conspiracy. It's another thing to think about the idea of sending a young man to his death and then saying, ho, ho, ho, merry Christmas, I'm walking out of a courthouse.
(CROSSTALK)
TOOBIN: I don't buy it.
KAGAN: You don't think so?
TOOBIN: I really don't.
I think these jurors are intelligent people. I think they recognize that this sentence is going to stand the other 364 days of the year. I think the evidence in the case had a lot more to do with it than the time of year. But I don't know for sure, because the jurors haven't spoken.
(CROSSTALK)
MESERVE: If I could just chime in there, Daryn, just to clarify, the prosecutor didn't blame it on that. He just thought that that might have had an impact on their decision-making.
KAGAN: Fair enough.
Jeanne Meserve and Jeffrey Toobin, thank you for that. Appreciate your insight on what was a shocking decision to a lot of people out there.
Well, those sniper shootings killed 10 people, including James "Sunny" Buchanan. His sister disappointed with the jury's decision.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
VICTORIA BUCHANAN SNIDER, SISTER OF SNIPER VICTIM: to me, if you look at the law, we live in the law of our land. And I don't think there could be another case that would be more deserving of the capital punishment.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
KAGAN: Another of the sniper's victims was Dean Meyers. He was shot to death in Virginia in October 2002.
His brother Larry Meyers joins us now from Philadelphia.
Mr. Meyers, thank you for being with us.
LARRY MEYERS, BROTHER OF SNIPER VICTIM: Good evening, Daryn.
KAGAN: Can you share with us your reaction to the decision today?
MEYERS: Yes, primarily, it's one of relief. It's been a rather long ordeal, lasting over a year. And, of course, we were down there for about three weeks, two weeks with the Muhammad trial and several days with the Malvo trial. And, at this point in time, we're just glad that a decision was reached, and we're comfortable with that decision.
KAGAN: And so you leave it in the hands of the jury. Do you make a distinction -- and some of the other family members who came out to speak after this was announced, they said think don't see a distinction between what John Allen Muhammad did and what Lee Boyd Malvo did. Do you, in terms of his age, see a difference?
MEYERS: Well, I think there has to be a distinction, because he's a very young man. Muhammad has had many more experiences. He's a much older person. And I believe everyone's situation is unique and no more unique than in the circumstance between these two individuals.
KAGAN: And this is, of course, the holiday season. And I know that it makes it difficult for your family, with your brother missing. And I know that hole is still there.
Do you think that the Christmas and Christmas Eve looming, that that had something to do with the jury making the decision and making it at this time?
MEYERS: I was listening to the earlier statements.
And I don't know for sure, but I don't really believe that you give someone a different sentence just because of the time of year it is. I think -- I've seen both juries. I think both juries went about their task with a very workmanlike manner. They wanted to be sure that the decision they made was correct. And after searching their minds and probably searching their souls, in the case of young Mr. Malvo, they came up with a slightly different decision.
KAGAN: And just real quickly here, so that we don't forget who is important, and that is your brother, if you could leave us with a thought of your brother during this holiday season, please.
MEYERS: Well, my brother Dean was unmarried and had no children. So he was uncle Dean to all the rest of the family, the nieces, the great-nieces, the nephews. And, at this time of year, we would always get together for most of the major holidays, and especially at Christmas.
So, brother Dean, you will really be missed once again this year. We're so sad about the events that occurred. But we are at least glad for the fine legacy that you have left with the many good things that we found out about the types of contributions you've made for the young children of the world. There's a scholarship that's been put in place by your employer at Penn State for engineering students. And even a new park is being named in your honor at the Dominion area in Haymarket, Virginia.
So, brother Dean, we really miss you, but we appreciate the legacy that you have left us. KAGAN: And that legacy does go on and continues to grow. Thank you for leaving us with that thought, Mr. Meyers, this everything.
MEYERS: Thank you so much. Thank you for having me.
KAGAN: Our thoughts are with your family during this holiday season. Thank you, sir.
MEYERS: Thank you, Daryn.
KAGAN: We do have breaking news to tell you. Reuters is reporting that South Korea is -- quote -- "highly likely" to halt imports of U.S. beef after today's report of the first U.S. case of mad cow disease. Reuters says that word comes from a South Korean Agriculture Ministry official. South Korea banned beef imports when Canada reported that its first case of mad cow disease took place in May.
We're going to have more of this as it comes into here at CNN.
The threat from the skies. Is al Qaeda plotting to use foreign airplanes as weapons of terror against America?
And Rush Limbaugh calls it political payback -- how the radio talk show host is swinging back are going to charges of doctor shopping to feed his addiction to painkillers.
Plus, I spy cell phones, handheld and hooked up to a satellite. This cell phone is watching every move that you make.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DICK CHENEY, VICE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: We've had a reminder, just within the last 24 hours, that the United States still faces serious threats. We've seen the threat level escalated to level orange. We've done that because we've seen some reporting that leads us to believe it's necessary.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
KAGAN: That's Vice President Dick Cheney on what seems to be the biggest increase in security since the 9/11 attacks.
But is al Qaeda capable of piercing the layers of security that the U.S. has built?
Former CIA field officer Robert Baer joins us to talk about that this evening. He is in Newport, California.
Bob, good evening.
ROBERT BAER, FORMER CIA OFFICER: Good evening.
KAGAN: I don't know if you had a chance to hear Deb Feyerick's report. But she talked about everything from Los Angeles to New York, Las Vegas, California. What are you really hearing that people are focusing on out there, government officials?
BAER: They're focusing on individual pilots that could bring a plane, for instance, from Europe, a cargo plane, an airliner, somebody, a pilot recruited by al Qaeda flying into a target into New York City, into Washington, D.C..
It would also work the other way. Somebody leaving Washington could divert an airplane before the government could react. It could run it into the White House, Congress or any other target.
KAGAN: Well, and if it is before anybody can react, what can anybody really do about that?
BAER: They can't. It's a problem.
How well are foreign airlines vetting their pilots? This is something we can't control. This is something that worries the government. Or bringing an airline, let's say, from Mexico, a cargo plane, flying it into a refinery, into a nuclear facility, is a major worry of the government.
KAGAN: You make an interesting point that al Qaeda is not necessarily an organization, rather an idea. And that is one thing that makes it so difficult to fight.
BAER: It's broken up into cells. And bin Laden is really perpetuating an idea, the idea of jihad, the fight against the West, the fight to force us out of Middle East, to force to destroy our civilization. And people don't really need to sign up to this organization, have a membership card, be in communication with bin Laden.
They can just go out, figure out what they can, and carry out the mission based on an order from bin Laden, which is a standing order.
KAGAN: I want to talk about some images that brought joy to a lot of Americans over the last week or so. And that are the pictures, the first pictures that we saw of Saddam Hussein in captivity. Do you think that was a mistake, to show the leader in a humiliating way like that?
BAER: Oh, absolutely.
I think what they should have done is shown Saddam to prove to the Iraqis that we had captured him, but maybe have him meet his daughters, that we're going to treat him compassionately. Now, he doesn't deserve compassion. But we should take the high road in all of this. And I think we would have been better off.
What we don't want to do is get into a position where we are continually humiliating the people we've defeated. We want to show them that our real objective is democracy, to bring freedom to these people, and for our eventual leaving. KAGAN: And then I want to ask you finally about this situation with the orange alert. This is kind of a lose-lose situation, before, if a really bad thing happens, Americans are going to say, why didn't you do more to prevent it? If a really bad thing doesn't happen, you get into a situation of crying wolf and people will not listen the next time.
BAER: It's -- exactly.
But right now, they have no choice. There's a threat out there, bin Laden intends to attack this country, or somebody following his orders. If they don't put the alert out, the attack happens, there's no way to keep this secret. And Americans say, why did you keep this from us? We could have done something about it.
But, really, this orange alert is really for the first-providers, saying, hey, guys, this is serious now. You have to be vigilant, no packages left in the airport. You've got to check manifests. You've got to check security getting onto airplanes. You've got to check nuclear facilities. The government has no choice at this point.
KAGAN: Former CIA field officer Bob Baer, thanks for joining us. We hope it's a very calm and, as I said yesterday, boring holiday for all of us across America.
(CROSSTALK)
BAER: I hope so. Thank you.
KAGAN: Well, with the U.S. on high alert for terrorist strikes over the holiday, we look at the new concern that al Qaeda may be using foreign airliners -- you just heard Bob there mention this -- to strike the U.S.
Also, if Pakistan is a partner in the fight on terror, why is there evidence showing the country may have helped Iran and North Korea build nuclear weapons?
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
KAGAN: We have more breaking news now on the mad cow discovery, getting word that Japan now says it will temporary ban beef imports from the U.S. This follows South Korea's action. We don't know if other countries will follow suit. But the story is clearly moving quickly. And we will continue to bring you the latest as it develops.
We also will have a chance to hear from the U.S. Cattlemen's Association in just a moment. Will this be devastating for the U.S. beef industry?
Back now to the terror alerts. And we have seen how the U.S. is on high alert for the new terror attacks.
Let's bring in our Matthew Chance. He is in London, with the view from there -- Matthew.
MATTHEW CHANCE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Daryn, thank you.
Tight security in towns and cities up and down Britain, around its key installations and particularly its airports. But I have to say, only within the context of a general threat. Unlike in the states at the moment, the authorities here in Britain say they have no specific intelligence indicating that an attack is being planned over this holiday period.
The country is, according to the police, on a heightened state of alert and has been for some months, Britain, of course, considered to be a prime target for al Qaeda and its affiliates. Indeed, there have been British citizens like Richard Reid, the shoe bomber, with close links with the terror network. And, accordingly, the British public have been asked to remain vigilant over this festive period.
In terms of what the authorities are actually doing, well, they're certainly cooperating with U.S. intelligence services on this security alert, on the lookout for a possible threat. But what British security officials are telling us here in London is that, without specific intelligence on what exactly is being planned, names, places, locations, it's going to be very difficult, first of all, for them to do more than they're already doing and, secondly, more importantly perhaps, to actually stop whatever plan is already in motion -- Daryn.
KAGAN: Matthew Chance, in London, thank you for that
Well, with the threat of a foreign airliner possibly being hijacked and threatening the U.S., the question is out there: What would and what could the U.S. military do to stop it?
Here now, our Pentagon correspondent Barbara Starr.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
BARBARA STARR, CNN PENTAGON CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): The threat of a plane hijacked outside the U.S., then attacking a target here, in part led the nation to code orange alert this week.
Military and civil aviation authorities say they are better prepared now than at any time since 9/11 to deal with terrorist hijacking a commercial airliner.
GEN. RICHARD MYERS, JOINT CHIEFS CHAIRMAN: Since 9/11, the U.S. military has scrambled fighters and vectored air patrols more than 1,600 times to respond to potential air threats.
STARR: Upon entering U.S. airspace, commercial airliners must have a flight plan and communicate with air traffic control. The military's North American Aerospace Defense Command also monitors traffic through its radars.
If the FAA cannot contact a suspect plane, it would ask the military for help. A spokesman says, "After 9/11, we picked up a line of communication with NORAD and never hung up." Air Force or Navy fighters already on alert would be sent to track the aircraft. Military pilots would try to make contact with the plane, and, if that fails, try to force it to land.
Since 9/11, most intercepts have occurred when pilots inadvertently turned off electronics that identify aircraft, accidentally transmitted emergency codes, or when planes have deviated from their flight plans. What about the unthinkable, shooting down a hijacked plane? In the extraordinary circumstance that the president could not be reached in time, it is understood that a small number of senior military officers could make that fateful decision.
(on camera): All of the pieces are now in place, more fighter jet patrols, surface-to-air missiles deployed, the military on alert. The Bush administration hopes this increased state of military readiness will help keep the unthinkable from happening.
Barbara Starr, CNN, the Pentagon.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
KAGAN: Rush Limbaugh launches a counteroffensive, as he faces a drug investigation. He says he was blackmailed by his former maid. We'll talk to her lawyer.
Also, find out how a call from the White House led to an opportunity of a lifetime for one very talented artist.
And tomorrow, join Paula tomorrow for some highlights of the last few months, including her interview with the soldier Jessica Lynch and -- who she calls a real hero.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
KAGAN: And here's what you need to know right now.
More on what may be the first case of mad cow disease on U.S. soil. It could be trouble for the American beef industry. Reuters is reporting that South Korea and Japan are taking steps to ban imports of U.S. beef.
Joining us from Washington, Chandler Keys, vice president of the National Cattlemen's Beef Association. Mr. Keys good evening, thank's for being with us.
Thank you for having me.
KAGAN: Lets get to the latest developments on this story. And that is the two countries, Japan and South Korea saying they don't want for now U.S. beef coming into their countries.
CHANDLER KEYS, NAT'L CATTLEMEN'S BEEF ASSN.: Well, it's not unexpected they would do this. We're asking USDA and our government to have top-level consultations with Japanese and Korean's immediately to come to some understanding how we can get back to normalization after we investigate this unfortunate case of BSE.
KAGAN: You saw what happened to Canada when they had their case of Mad Cow Disease back in May. This is potentially devastating, for this U.S. beef industry, is it not?
KEYS: Well, what we would tell the American consumer is the beef is safe. We have firewalls in place. This cow was caught, the infected agents are not in the beef system. What we need to do is make sure we're relying on science here and not hype and make sure the people understand the beef is safe to eat. That it's -- that the system has worked, that firewalls are in place. And according to Harvard Risk Analysis, even if we did find a case, which now we evidently have, there's very little evidence it would become an epidemic like it has in Europe.
KAGAN: It was concerning to listen to Ann Veneman's news earlier today conference, the agriculture secretary, when she talked about how this was caught and talked about the brain matter and spinal cord didn't go into the system, but the meat did go on to two other stops. That raised some eyebrows in terms of just how far this can go before infected beef would be stopped.
KEYS: Well, the problem is the beef is not infected. The agent is not found in the beef. The agent -- BSE agent or the Mad Cow agent, the disease is only found in the spinal column and their central nervous system like the brain, which the American consumer does not consume that. We consume steaks, roasts, ground beef, and the agent has never been found in those products. So, this is not a case where the agent has gone out into the system, but the safe beef has, which is direct conflict with what happened in Europe, with central agents...
KAGAN: Well, Mr. Keys, let me ask you, because they did have a difficult situation, but don't they have much tougher testing than in the U.S.?
And in Europe now almost every single beef animal is tested, we don't have that here in the U.S., but it makes you wonder this cow was caught, but what else is out there?
KEYS: Well, the problem is the Europeans have to go to the huge measures, because they allowed it to get out of hand. They allowed this disease to become an epidemic. We're not going to allow that here, because we put scientific barriers, scientifically proven barriers in place to make sure if we ever did get a case of BSE, which evidently we have, that the agent would never get out into the consuming public, which it did in Europe. And that's why the Europeans have to take such a broad array of measures, because they let it get out of hand to begin with.
KAGAN: Thank you for being with us tonight. That's Chandler Keys, vice president of the National Cattlemen's Association.
KEYS: Thank you.
KAGAN: And we move on now. Radio host Rush Limbaugh lost a court battle today over his access to private medical records. Those records were seized by the Palm Beach County prosecutor in investigation of what the prosecutor calls doctor shopping. Limbaugh says it's a politically motivated attack. His lawyer says he is being blackmailed.
Joining me with an exclusive interview, is Ed Shohat. He's a criminal defense lawyer from Miami. He is representing Limbaugh's former maid, Wilma Cline. Ms. Cline has admitted supplying Limbaugh with drugs. And apparently she is the one that Mr. Limbaugh thinks was blackmailing him or at least according to his lawyer, Roy Black. Mr. Shohat, good evening, thanks for being with us.
ED SHOHAT, CRIMINAL DEFENSE ATTY.: Good evening, Daryn.
KAGAN: Was your client blackmailing Rush Limbaugh?
SHOHAT: Absolutely not. Wilma Cline categorically denies doing that.
KAGAN: But she did take a lot money from Rush Limbaugh, did she not?
SHOHAT: She took money from Rush Limbaugh, he offered her money, she lost her job. What you have to understand and what the American public has to understand is that Wilma Cline and her husband David went to the state attorney's office voluntary before there was any hint of an investigation, and told them what they did, told them what Rush Limbaugh did, provided documents, including years of e-mails, tape recordings on the answering machine and other documents. Not a hint of even a suggestion of blackmail. And it's the strangest blackmail...
KAGAN: But just even -- Mr. Shohat, let me just jump in here for just a second. Just the idea that this was going on for years, that this was kept secret, that the idea this might not be a secret anymore, could that have been an implied threat?
This didn't happen for a week, it was going on for a long time.
SHOHAT: Right. It happened over a period of many months, Daryn. It's the strangest blackmail I've ever heard of, because Limbaugh demanded that the Cline's sign promissory notes for the money. Have you ever heard of a blackmailed person demanding a promissory note from the blackmailer?
I don't think anybody ever has. And just think about it, even the suggestion of blackmail what did he have to hide that was worth $4 million or that anyone would think was worth $4 million?
Just by suggesting it, he's confessing not to the fact -- just to the fact that he obtained these pills, but that he obtained thousands upon thousands of these pills. $4 million, what did he have to hide that would be even remotely worth that?
KAGAN: Let me just wrap up here by asking, what -- I'm sorry. Finish your thought, and then I'll finish my question..
SHOHAT: Where is he going with this blackmail suggestion? KAGAN: My final question to you, what is your client's legal status right now?
SHOHAT: They're citizens, out trying to earn a living and going on with their lives. They have no legal status other than just trying to go about their lives.
KAGAN: They face no possible criminal charges for buying these pills -- or nothing?
SHOHAT: I'm not the one to ask that question. That would be the state attorney's office. And as I said repeatedly, we're not going to discuss their relationship with the state attorney's office. We're not going to do anything in that regard that might affect or impede an investigation that's going on. We are simply -- the Cline's are simply trying to good about their lives and rebuild their lives after their experience with Rush Limbaugh.
KAGAN: Well, then we will leave it at that. Ed Shohat, thank you for stopping by this evening. Appreciate that.
Joining us from Myrtle Beach radio talk show host Armstrong Williams, he is a friend of Rush Limbaugh and perhaps has a different view of what is going on here. Armstrong, Good evening. Good to have you with us.
ARMSTRONG WILLIAMS, RADIO TALK SHOW HOST: Hello, Daryn. How are you and happy holidays.
KAGAN: Thank you. A couple of matters to go over here with you. Ed Shohat was trying to imply here that this just a smoke screen, that Rush Limbaugh has serious problem with his drug addiction and the is trying to deflect attention from that onto his former house keeper.
WILLIAMS: You know, if you remember some time ago, Mr. Limbaugh did indicate that he considered turning this over to the FBI, and that statement sort of resonated with many people. Obviously, you know, I think this is a further indication of just how feeble and weak he became in the situation he was in, that we have no idea just how devastated he has been over the last several years with this addiction. And it may have gotten to the point where it got out of handle not only with him, but with his domestic help where he may have felt he was threatened, but was too weak to give in, because he was in such desperate need of these drugs.
And obviously, there could have been a conversation, there could have been some kind of interaction where he felt that he could not take it anymore, that he was not only destroying himself, but this situation was getting out of hand. And they may have come to the realization that in order to protect themselves, given their status in his household, that they may need to go forward to alert authorities that Rush Limbaugh was doing something -- some wrongdoing.
KAGAN: Let me just jump in here for just a second. Because just to be clear, it was his attorney, Roy Black, that came out with this blackmail accusation, and Rush Limbaugh did put his statement up on his Web site today, and he really hasn't talked about the blackmail. He talks about a bigger picture. He thinks this is a political conspiracy, that people are out to get him. Do you think that's a legitimate claim?
WILLIAMS: Well, you know, I do find it kind of strange that you're involved in a possible criminal investigation, and no charges have been alleged or filed, and yet you're authorized to release his medical records. I think that's kind of strange. That's certainly not what our justice system is about. Normally you release those medical records after the charges have been filed, and that has not happened yet.
Obviously, I mean, he's a big fish, he's a huge fish. He has many adversaries out there. Some people see him as being a hypocrite, that he preaches one thing yet he does something else in his private life, so obviously he has enemies out there, and obviously he's paranoid, because obviously his mountain has crumbled here over the last several months, and obviously he's tried to make sense out of this.
KAGAN: Well, thank you very much. Armstrong Williams, thank you, and Rush Limbaugh, a man, at the end of the day, a man who has some difficult challenges ahead of him in overcoming his addiction. Armstrong, thank you for that.
WILLIAMS: Thank you, Daryn.
KAGAN: Selling secrets for building weapons of mass destruction, did Pakistan help countries like Libya and Iran with nuclear weapons technology?
The global positioning cell phone. Yes, that's right. A cell phone. You can use it for talking or your boss could use it to track your every move.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
KAGAN: There are disturbing questions tonight about a U.S. ally in the war on terrorism. A spokesman for Pakistan's Foreign Ministry today denied that his country would spread nuclear weapons technology, but admitted that some individuals may have been motivated by greed.
Three scientists are being questioned. Our national security correspondent David Ensor reports on growing suspicions that somehow Pakistani knowledge may have gotten into the wrong hands.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
DAVID ENSOR, CNN NATIONAL SECURITY CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): The growing evidence Pakistani scientists may have helped Iran, North Korea and Libya acquire nuclear weapons technology is raising new concerns in Washington about a key ally.
GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: We've had no better partner in our fight on terror that President Musharraf. ENSOR: When Iran recently shared information on its nuclear suppliers with international regulators, the evidence pointed to Iran getting designs and possibly actual uranium enrichment centrifuges from Pakistani scientists.
DAVID ALBRIGHT, SCIENCE AND INTERNATIONAL SECURITY INSTITUTE: Pakistan is our ally, and in a way they're stabbing us in the back, by helping countries like Iran, North Korea, perhaps even Libya get the wherewithal to make nuclear weapons.
ENSOR: Pakistan's apparent assistance to Iran and the others took place in the '80s and '90s, well before Pakistan's President Musharraf took power.
PATRICK CLAWSON, WASHINGTON INSTITUTE: The horse has bolted out of the barn. We're talking about exports that took place quite a number of years ago. Going forward, of course, we can emphasize that Pakistanis don't do any more of this, but what's already happened has happened.
ENSOR: Scientists who may have sold nuclear secrets have been questioned by authorities in Pakistan this week, including Abdul Qadeer Khan, father of the Pakistani bomb, which was first detonated in 1998, to great celebration.
So far, though, none of the scientists has been charged with any crime.
ALBRIGHT: They have to hold these people accountable, so it sets out a clear warning to other Pakistanis that this will not be tolerated.
ENSOR: What makes the growing evidence against Pakistani scientists all the more worrying is that last week President Musharraf, the leader holding further proliferation in check, narrowly escaped death from a remotely detonated bomb.
ALBRIGHT: If Musharraf somehow falls and an Islamic state is set up, then the problem could become much more.
ENSOR (on camera): Some experts say they suspect the evidence from Libya points to a Pakistani source for its recently revealed centrifuge equipment. Senior U.S. intelligence officials refuse to confirm that, but they do say the information the CIA found in Libya will help track who is selling nuclear equipment on the black market, and it looks as if an ally may have been a major source of nuclear danger.
David Ensor, CNN, Washington.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
KAGAN: The cell phone, it's the latest weapon in spying. Find out how anyone can use them to snoop.
And she had the White House to herself. Meet the woman who worked with the first lady to create the first family's Christmas card.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
KAGAN: The technology used to track felons on patrol (sic) is now being applied to cell phones. Along with companies, many families are signing up for electronic services to make sure they know exactly where their children are at any time, anyplace. Our Adoara Udoji tried one of the new phones out today, and we tried tracking her down.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
ADOARA UDOJI, CNN CORRESPONDENT (on camera): So tell me, where are we?
KAGAN (on camera): Looks like you've headed to Times Square.
UDOJI: You are absolutely correct. We are in Times Square. Can you tell me exactly where we are in Times Square?
KAGAN: You're at about Broadway and 42nd Street or 43rd Street. How did I do?
UDOJI: That's very, very close. We're actually on Broadway between 44th and 45th Street.
So Daryn, tell me, where are we now?
KAGAN: It looks like you are trying to get into the Christmas spirit and going to one of the most Christmasy places in New York City, Rockefeller Center.
UDOJI: You are absolutely correct. Now, tell me, can you pinpoint exactly where we are?
KAGAN: It says your last known location is 20 West 48th Street, and it says you were there one minute ago. How accurate is that?
UDOJI: Actually, you pinpointed us exactly.
KAGAN: Oh, that's great.
Do you want to try one more time and see if you can stomp me?
UDOJI: So, Daryn, guess where we are now?
KAGAN: Looks like you have headed to one of the prettiest, greenest places in all of New York City, and you are right in the middle of Central Park.
UDOJI: We are.
So for the last hour and a half, you've been able to locate where we are every second, almost.
KAGAN: If I look on the cell phone, the specially equipped cell phone, I can also find out exactly where you've been, so even without a computer, I can tell by the cell phone exactly where you are.
UDOJI: Yeah, but you know what, when I turn the phone off, that means you can't track me down anymore. Bye-bye.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
UDOJI: And Daryn, it's also interesting to note that actually this location tracking technology really has gone into high gear since the FCC ordered that by 2005, cell phone providers have to make sure that every cell phone user could be found, their location could be identified immediately for emergency services purposes.
KAGAN: So for emergencies, it sounds great. And for a parent who is looking for a teenager, it sounds great, but there's got to be some abuses out there of this technology. So any guidelines to try to prevent that?
UDOJI: Well, there's absolutely some major concerns. We've talked to several consumer advocates who say privacy, who is going to be able to have access to this material? Who is going to be tracking, paying attention to it? I mean, it's one thing if businesses are trying to figure out what consumers want, if I'm walking down the street and I'm passing Starbucks, then they know. They are also worried about law enforcement. They say guidelines should be set up to make it clear exactly how it should be used.
KAGAN: And just for the record, you said you could run and hide, but look, I found you, you're back here with us tonight.
Thank you for that report, appreciate that.
A first family tradition, it's the White House Christmas card. We'll talk to the artist behind the picture.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
KAGAN: So maybe you are rushing out to the mail to send out the last of your holiday greeting cards. The first family has already mailed theirs, 1.5 million of them, to friends, families and international dignitaries. This year they chose the scene showing the historic White House room where Franklin Roosevelt calmed a worried nation with his fireside chats. The artist is Barbara Ernst Prey. She's an internationally known water colorist, whose subjects range from peaceful New England scenes to paintings of the International Space Station. We talked to her earlier.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
KAGAN: What was that like to get that phone call, guess what? We would like you to paint the White House Christmas card.
BARBARA ERNST PREY, PAINTED WHITE HOUSE GREETINGS: It was an amazing -- as you can imagine, just an amazing phone call. And I think I was so shocked, my response was, I don't think I can say no.
KAGAN: Yeah, I don't think you can say no to the White House, especially when they call, what, in March?
PREY: Right, right, because they plan ahead. It actually took about six months to do the painting.
KAGAN: And we'd like to look at the painting, and you can tell us about what you picked. From what I understand, it's unusual -- they usually have an oil painting, and as we mentioned, you're a water colorist.
PREY: Right. Mrs. Bush had had for a number of years she's had oil painters, and she wanted to switch and do water colors. And she likes the way my water colors are very strong colors, and we also changed the format. It was a vertical, and this year it's horizontal...
KAGAN: Oh, interesting.
PREY: ... card.
KAGAN: And as I understand, you kind of had free rein to run around the White House grounds with your sketch pad?
PREY: Right. I mean, it really is -- the commission is an artist's dream. I was able to paint the South Lawn, and I actually had to get off, because the president was coming, landing with his helicopter, and I did the front, and I was able to walk through all the rooms in the White House.
KAGAN: And so you -- describe the process, you would paint and Mrs. Bush would look at the paintings and you edited it down. What was it like to have Laura Bush as your boss on this project?
PREY: You know, it was -- as you can imagine, it would be -- it was pretty scary -- I was a little nervous. I wouldn't say scary, but a little bit...
KAGAN: Have you ever met her before?
PREY: I had. She's familiar with my work, I had met her before, and they have one of my paintings in the private residence, so she did know my work. But still, you're working for the first lady of the United States...
KAGAN: Hello!
PREY: Right, and the card you know is going out to major heads of states. I did a number of sketches, I did five different rooms, and then presented her with them, and she really liked the Diplomatic Reception Room, which is just a wonderful room, it's warm, it's cozy, it has wonderful color. And that's what she ended up going with.
KAGAN: Was she easy to work for?
PREY: She was so easy to work for. And it was fun. She was easy to work for, she has a great sense of humor, and it was just a really fun project. I wish it had gone on, you know, for a little longer.
KAGAN: I have to ask you, if it's such a big deal to send out the White House Christmas card, but what do you send out for your own Christmas card after that?
PREY: Well, I'll be honest, I actually had to use an image that I've used a couple of years ago, maybe six years ago, as my Christmas card. So hopefully everyone who's gotten it doesn't remember.
KAGAN: There's a rerun.
(AUDIO GAP)
KAGAN: Things were a little bit busy.
PREY: Right.
KAGAN: They should understand.
PREY: Right.
KAGAN: And your next project, with NASA?
PREY: I had just done a painting of the International Space Station before I did this, and now I've been commissioned by NASA to do a painting to commemorate the Columbia tragedy, which will be in February. So that's another big project in itself.
KAGAN: Clearly not the last we've heard from you.
Look forward to seeing that as well.
PREY: Thank you.
KAGAN: Thank you, and happy holidays.
PREY: You too.
KAGAN: Barbara Ernst Prey. If you're one of the lucky 1.5 million to get a Christmas card, you will see her work, from the White House.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
KAGAN: And that's going to do it for us. Thanks for being with us tonight. I'm Daryn Kagan. For those of you heading into the holiday, have a happy and a healthy and a safe one. "LARRY KING LIVE" is up next.
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Penalty; Targets of Terror>
Aired December 23, 2003 - 20:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
DARYN KAGAN, GUEST HOST: "In Focus" tonight: The first confirmed case of mad cow disease in the U.S., can it be contained?
The jury says no death penalty for the 18-year-old convicted in the D.C. sniper spree.
New intelligence on specific terror threats in the U.S., the weapons that might be used and the targets, this time, not just big cities.
Good evening. Thanks for joining us. Paula Zahn is off tonight.
We have a lot to cover, but, first, here is what you need to know right now.
The first case of mad cow disease on U.S. soil is suspected in Washington state. The Department of Agriculture says that the cow turned up at a slaughterhouse, but the meat did not reach the food chain. The farm that it came from has been quarantined.
Joining us now, our medical correspondent Dr. Sanjay Gupta.
Sanjay, good evening.
DR. SANJAY GUPTA, CNN MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: Good evening.
KAGAN: People, millions of families across America are going to be sitting down tonight and over the next few nights to a holiday dinner looking at perhaps that beef on their plate and wondering, is it safe to eat this?
GUPTA: Well, the short answer is probably yes.
And there's a couple of points actually we're just learning as well. That meat, some of that meat in fact appears did get to two processing plants. Now, we're talking specifically about the muscle cuts of beef from this particular cow. The reason I emphasize that is because that's usually not a contagious part of the cow. What they're most concerned about is brain and spinal cord stuff. In fact, a little earlier, you mentioned Secretary Veneman.
This is what she had to say.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
ANN VENEMAN, SECRETARY OF AGRICULTURE: It's very important to recognize that this disease does not spread easily. One of the things that people are very confused about, and I found it as we went through the situation when Canada had a single case of BSE, is, a lot of times, people don't understand that this is not foot-and-mouth disease. It's not that highly contagious disease that you often see spread so quickly.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GUPTA: So, when you're talking about this type of mad cow disease, often not very contagious. Is it going to be a big deal to humans? Almost certainly not. Is it going to be a big deal to cows? Probably not as well. People are going to be scared of this, no question about it, though.
KAGAN: So why are they scared? What happens if the cow gets it? And what happens if a person gets it?
GUPTA: Well, certainly, you've seen the images now. I think most people have seen the images of what happens when a cow gets it. It's sort of the stumbling cow. They're sort of falling down. It affects the brain and the spinal cord primarily. And it certainly scared lots of people and killed lots of cows in Canada, as well as England in the 1990s.
Now, as far as humans go, there's only been about 100 cases around the world in about 15 different countries, certainly not a very contagious thing in terms of humans. It is a problem, though, if you think about cows getting out there into the beef supply and people being scared of it. Are they really going to get sick from it? Probably not.
KAGAN: Well, this could have a huge impact perhaps on the beef industry. We're going to talk about that later in the hour. But thanks for giving us the medical and the human side.
Dr. Sanjay Gupta, thank you for that.
Well, now to a nation on alert. Signs of high security are nearly everywhere in the U.S. tonight. Terrorist chatter means that tighter security is up for Los Angeles, Las Vegas, San Francisco, New York and Washington, even for the mostly rural tidewater area of Virginia. It was easy to see the results of the orange alert in the big cities. Extra police and National Guardsmen were called out to patrol crowded areas.
Airport security is tighter. Gunboats have taken to the coastal and harbor areas. And more watchful eyes are underground to protect the subway and rail systems.
Deborah Feyerick joins us now for an overview of a nation on alert.
Deb, good evening.
DEBORAH FEYERICK, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Good evening, Daryn. Well, security everywhere ratcheted up to extraordinary levels. U.S. officials are warning several governments and airlines worldwide that they need to tighten their security, this after what they call credible information that terrorists might try to use international- based planes in some sort of suicide attack against the United States.
Now, anti-aircraft missiles that could be used to shoot down planes were put in place around the Washington, D.C. area. Government sources are telling CNN that some flight crews from other countries have been stopped and questioned in recent days. At the Pentagon today, there was a drill practicing to keep the government open in the event of some sort of major terror attack.
The head of the Joint Chiefs of Staff says combat aircraft also went on alert at some military bases. Those could be scrambled at any moment. Now, security was high at the targets that you mentioned, the bridges, the power plants, the landmarks, all of these with extra eyes everywhere in New York, New Jersey and Connecticut.
State troopers were patrolling commuter trains, the first time that anything like this has really happened. Trains don't have a lot of security in general. The FBI has been working overtime. They're interrogating sources, trying to flesh out the threat picture. And the cities of biggest concern right now include Los Angeles, New York, Washington, also Las Vegas. These are some of the cities that 9/11 terrorists spent time in.
Sources tell CNN, Intelligence was received about the San Francisco area and about an area in Virginia. But, right now, there is so much out there that they're really trying to determine what is real, what is fact, what is fiction, what is hearsay. And there's a lot of work to be done. And, clearly, they're trying to do it as fast as they can.
KAGAN: Which leads to more scariness and terror across the country and people not knowing where this might happen.
There's a huge cost on the psyche of a nation, also just in terms of the budgets of local governments as they try to deal with this orange alert. Any idea how long the country might stay at orange?
FEYERICK: Right now, officials are saying that it could be past January 1, that they're going to continue this into the new year. As you mentioned, the budget, it's extraordinary.
For some cities, to go to orange alert, it costs them $1 million an hour in extra overtime. And also the psyche, people don't know what to believe, how much to believe, what is credible, what is not credible.
Clearly, there's an urgency now that I think many people have not felt in quite some time. But, again, when officials step out and say there's credible information we're getting, you've got to stand up. You've got to take notice. And when Mr. Ridge comes out and says this could be bigger than 9/11, well, clearly you stand up and take notice.
KAGAN: Yes, it gets some attention.
FEYERICK: Yes.
KAGAN: Deb, thank you for that. That's our Deb Feyerick.
Much more on the terror alert is coming up ahead, including concern that al Qaeda might want to use international airline flights coming to the U.S. to launch attacks.
We turn now to the sniper case. A jury in Chesapeake, Virginia, decided the life of Lee Boyd Malvo should be spared. Jurors could have recommended the death penalty. Instead, they decided, the 18- year-old D.C. area sniper could serve life in prison without parole.
We put this "In Focus" now with our Jeanne Meserve. She has been following the sniper trial. She joins us this evening from Washington -- Jeanne.
JEANNE MESERVE, CNN HOMELAND SECURITY CORRESPONDENT: Hi, Daryn.
KAGAN: What can you tell us about the verdict and how it was reached?
MESERVE: Well, we can't tell you really anything about how it was reached.
The jury foreman came out and gave a very quick statement, only a couple of lines long. It gave absolutely no insight into their decision-making process. However, prosecutors and defense attorneys have both said that they think Malvo's youth played a factor here. And prosecutor Robert Horan also said Christmas week may have been a factor here. The jury might not have wanted to give a death penalty on what is essentially Christmas Eve.
KAGAN: Besides the Christmas Eve factor, you did mention his age. There was a lot of reasons, a lot of factors that went into Virginia being selected as the place for the first two trials to take place. Very high on that list was that this state does allow the death penalty for somebody as young as Lee Boyd Malvo.
MESERVE: That is exactly why it was picked by the attorney general. And the question is now, where is he going to put the next trial? As we know, a number of jurisdictions and prosecutors have lined up to take their crack at Lee Malvo. As far as attorneys involved in this case know now, it will be a decision made by the Justice Department, unclear where they're going to put it.
KAGAN: We have also with us our senior legal analyst Jeffrey Toobin, working a long day here today.
You have been talking with us throughout this trial in particular that the defense had been sowing the seeds for this type of defense all along, in going for the innocent by the reason of insanity defense, really not going to for that, but really for this decision today. JEFFREY TOOBIN, CNN SR. LEGAL ANALYST: This was really a brilliantly tried case by the defense, because what they did was, they raised an insanity defense throughout the trial, calling a series of mental health experts, saying that Malvo had been brainwashed by Muhammad.
It really was a pretty hopeless defense in the guilt phase. Brainwashing is not something that really counts as legal insanity. But it was a very good argument. The same jury, of course, decides the penalty phase. And those jurors heard over and over again how this 17-year-old not only was young, in and of himself, but was so dominated by an older man.
And I think the combination of the two, the youth and the domination by the older person, clearly had a big impact on the jury.
KAGAN: Jeanne, I want to bring you back here and go to your point about this being a Christmas week.
We're on the eve of Christmas Eve. And, as you said, the prosecutor came out and said, we try to never have a case Christmas week. Was there any kind of control over that? The trial lasted, what, seven or eight weeks?
MESERVE: It was long. It lasted about six weeks.
There had been some discussion at one point about moving it back a little bit, in part to make it easier for the mental health experts, who had to interview Lee Malvo. The judge made the decision not to do that. She wanted to keep this trial on track on a specific time period, because this was moved down from Fairfax to Chesapeake. It was an imposition on that court. She wanted to move it along.
The prosecutor, Robert Horan, said repeatedly, he was going to have it done by Christmas. That was his goal. And perhaps it would have been even more complicated if it had gone longer, because you would have had an extended break here. If they hadn't reached a verdict today, they would have gone to their homes and families for a break until next Monday. And that would have been difficult to deal with, too.
TOOBIN: That strikes me as sour grapes on the part of the prosecutors. I don't buy that this jury
(CROSSTALK)
KAGAN: As a former prosecutor, you're saying that.
TOOBIN: I think the jury is smart enough to know. This sentence is -- Christmas, I think, is pretty much irrelevant.
(CROSSTALK)
KAGAN: You think so?
TOOBIN: Absolutely. KAGAN: Yes, but it's one thing conspiracy. It's another thing to think about the idea of sending a young man to his death and then saying, ho, ho, ho, merry Christmas, I'm walking out of a courthouse.
(CROSSTALK)
TOOBIN: I don't buy it.
KAGAN: You don't think so?
TOOBIN: I really don't.
I think these jurors are intelligent people. I think they recognize that this sentence is going to stand the other 364 days of the year. I think the evidence in the case had a lot more to do with it than the time of year. But I don't know for sure, because the jurors haven't spoken.
(CROSSTALK)
MESERVE: If I could just chime in there, Daryn, just to clarify, the prosecutor didn't blame it on that. He just thought that that might have had an impact on their decision-making.
KAGAN: Fair enough.
Jeanne Meserve and Jeffrey Toobin, thank you for that. Appreciate your insight on what was a shocking decision to a lot of people out there.
Well, those sniper shootings killed 10 people, including James "Sunny" Buchanan. His sister disappointed with the jury's decision.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
VICTORIA BUCHANAN SNIDER, SISTER OF SNIPER VICTIM: to me, if you look at the law, we live in the law of our land. And I don't think there could be another case that would be more deserving of the capital punishment.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
KAGAN: Another of the sniper's victims was Dean Meyers. He was shot to death in Virginia in October 2002.
His brother Larry Meyers joins us now from Philadelphia.
Mr. Meyers, thank you for being with us.
LARRY MEYERS, BROTHER OF SNIPER VICTIM: Good evening, Daryn.
KAGAN: Can you share with us your reaction to the decision today?
MEYERS: Yes, primarily, it's one of relief. It's been a rather long ordeal, lasting over a year. And, of course, we were down there for about three weeks, two weeks with the Muhammad trial and several days with the Malvo trial. And, at this point in time, we're just glad that a decision was reached, and we're comfortable with that decision.
KAGAN: And so you leave it in the hands of the jury. Do you make a distinction -- and some of the other family members who came out to speak after this was announced, they said think don't see a distinction between what John Allen Muhammad did and what Lee Boyd Malvo did. Do you, in terms of his age, see a difference?
MEYERS: Well, I think there has to be a distinction, because he's a very young man. Muhammad has had many more experiences. He's a much older person. And I believe everyone's situation is unique and no more unique than in the circumstance between these two individuals.
KAGAN: And this is, of course, the holiday season. And I know that it makes it difficult for your family, with your brother missing. And I know that hole is still there.
Do you think that the Christmas and Christmas Eve looming, that that had something to do with the jury making the decision and making it at this time?
MEYERS: I was listening to the earlier statements.
And I don't know for sure, but I don't really believe that you give someone a different sentence just because of the time of year it is. I think -- I've seen both juries. I think both juries went about their task with a very workmanlike manner. They wanted to be sure that the decision they made was correct. And after searching their minds and probably searching their souls, in the case of young Mr. Malvo, they came up with a slightly different decision.
KAGAN: And just real quickly here, so that we don't forget who is important, and that is your brother, if you could leave us with a thought of your brother during this holiday season, please.
MEYERS: Well, my brother Dean was unmarried and had no children. So he was uncle Dean to all the rest of the family, the nieces, the great-nieces, the nephews. And, at this time of year, we would always get together for most of the major holidays, and especially at Christmas.
So, brother Dean, you will really be missed once again this year. We're so sad about the events that occurred. But we are at least glad for the fine legacy that you have left with the many good things that we found out about the types of contributions you've made for the young children of the world. There's a scholarship that's been put in place by your employer at Penn State for engineering students. And even a new park is being named in your honor at the Dominion area in Haymarket, Virginia.
So, brother Dean, we really miss you, but we appreciate the legacy that you have left us. KAGAN: And that legacy does go on and continues to grow. Thank you for leaving us with that thought, Mr. Meyers, this everything.
MEYERS: Thank you so much. Thank you for having me.
KAGAN: Our thoughts are with your family during this holiday season. Thank you, sir.
MEYERS: Thank you, Daryn.
KAGAN: We do have breaking news to tell you. Reuters is reporting that South Korea is -- quote -- "highly likely" to halt imports of U.S. beef after today's report of the first U.S. case of mad cow disease. Reuters says that word comes from a South Korean Agriculture Ministry official. South Korea banned beef imports when Canada reported that its first case of mad cow disease took place in May.
We're going to have more of this as it comes into here at CNN.
The threat from the skies. Is al Qaeda plotting to use foreign airplanes as weapons of terror against America?
And Rush Limbaugh calls it political payback -- how the radio talk show host is swinging back are going to charges of doctor shopping to feed his addiction to painkillers.
Plus, I spy cell phones, handheld and hooked up to a satellite. This cell phone is watching every move that you make.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DICK CHENEY, VICE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: We've had a reminder, just within the last 24 hours, that the United States still faces serious threats. We've seen the threat level escalated to level orange. We've done that because we've seen some reporting that leads us to believe it's necessary.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
KAGAN: That's Vice President Dick Cheney on what seems to be the biggest increase in security since the 9/11 attacks.
But is al Qaeda capable of piercing the layers of security that the U.S. has built?
Former CIA field officer Robert Baer joins us to talk about that this evening. He is in Newport, California.
Bob, good evening.
ROBERT BAER, FORMER CIA OFFICER: Good evening.
KAGAN: I don't know if you had a chance to hear Deb Feyerick's report. But she talked about everything from Los Angeles to New York, Las Vegas, California. What are you really hearing that people are focusing on out there, government officials?
BAER: They're focusing on individual pilots that could bring a plane, for instance, from Europe, a cargo plane, an airliner, somebody, a pilot recruited by al Qaeda flying into a target into New York City, into Washington, D.C..
It would also work the other way. Somebody leaving Washington could divert an airplane before the government could react. It could run it into the White House, Congress or any other target.
KAGAN: Well, and if it is before anybody can react, what can anybody really do about that?
BAER: They can't. It's a problem.
How well are foreign airlines vetting their pilots? This is something we can't control. This is something that worries the government. Or bringing an airline, let's say, from Mexico, a cargo plane, flying it into a refinery, into a nuclear facility, is a major worry of the government.
KAGAN: You make an interesting point that al Qaeda is not necessarily an organization, rather an idea. And that is one thing that makes it so difficult to fight.
BAER: It's broken up into cells. And bin Laden is really perpetuating an idea, the idea of jihad, the fight against the West, the fight to force us out of Middle East, to force to destroy our civilization. And people don't really need to sign up to this organization, have a membership card, be in communication with bin Laden.
They can just go out, figure out what they can, and carry out the mission based on an order from bin Laden, which is a standing order.
KAGAN: I want to talk about some images that brought joy to a lot of Americans over the last week or so. And that are the pictures, the first pictures that we saw of Saddam Hussein in captivity. Do you think that was a mistake, to show the leader in a humiliating way like that?
BAER: Oh, absolutely.
I think what they should have done is shown Saddam to prove to the Iraqis that we had captured him, but maybe have him meet his daughters, that we're going to treat him compassionately. Now, he doesn't deserve compassion. But we should take the high road in all of this. And I think we would have been better off.
What we don't want to do is get into a position where we are continually humiliating the people we've defeated. We want to show them that our real objective is democracy, to bring freedom to these people, and for our eventual leaving. KAGAN: And then I want to ask you finally about this situation with the orange alert. This is kind of a lose-lose situation, before, if a really bad thing happens, Americans are going to say, why didn't you do more to prevent it? If a really bad thing doesn't happen, you get into a situation of crying wolf and people will not listen the next time.
BAER: It's -- exactly.
But right now, they have no choice. There's a threat out there, bin Laden intends to attack this country, or somebody following his orders. If they don't put the alert out, the attack happens, there's no way to keep this secret. And Americans say, why did you keep this from us? We could have done something about it.
But, really, this orange alert is really for the first-providers, saying, hey, guys, this is serious now. You have to be vigilant, no packages left in the airport. You've got to check manifests. You've got to check security getting onto airplanes. You've got to check nuclear facilities. The government has no choice at this point.
KAGAN: Former CIA field officer Bob Baer, thanks for joining us. We hope it's a very calm and, as I said yesterday, boring holiday for all of us across America.
(CROSSTALK)
BAER: I hope so. Thank you.
KAGAN: Well, with the U.S. on high alert for terrorist strikes over the holiday, we look at the new concern that al Qaeda may be using foreign airliners -- you just heard Bob there mention this -- to strike the U.S.
Also, if Pakistan is a partner in the fight on terror, why is there evidence showing the country may have helped Iran and North Korea build nuclear weapons?
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
KAGAN: We have more breaking news now on the mad cow discovery, getting word that Japan now says it will temporary ban beef imports from the U.S. This follows South Korea's action. We don't know if other countries will follow suit. But the story is clearly moving quickly. And we will continue to bring you the latest as it develops.
We also will have a chance to hear from the U.S. Cattlemen's Association in just a moment. Will this be devastating for the U.S. beef industry?
Back now to the terror alerts. And we have seen how the U.S. is on high alert for the new terror attacks.
Let's bring in our Matthew Chance. He is in London, with the view from there -- Matthew.
MATTHEW CHANCE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Daryn, thank you.
Tight security in towns and cities up and down Britain, around its key installations and particularly its airports. But I have to say, only within the context of a general threat. Unlike in the states at the moment, the authorities here in Britain say they have no specific intelligence indicating that an attack is being planned over this holiday period.
The country is, according to the police, on a heightened state of alert and has been for some months, Britain, of course, considered to be a prime target for al Qaeda and its affiliates. Indeed, there have been British citizens like Richard Reid, the shoe bomber, with close links with the terror network. And, accordingly, the British public have been asked to remain vigilant over this festive period.
In terms of what the authorities are actually doing, well, they're certainly cooperating with U.S. intelligence services on this security alert, on the lookout for a possible threat. But what British security officials are telling us here in London is that, without specific intelligence on what exactly is being planned, names, places, locations, it's going to be very difficult, first of all, for them to do more than they're already doing and, secondly, more importantly perhaps, to actually stop whatever plan is already in motion -- Daryn.
KAGAN: Matthew Chance, in London, thank you for that
Well, with the threat of a foreign airliner possibly being hijacked and threatening the U.S., the question is out there: What would and what could the U.S. military do to stop it?
Here now, our Pentagon correspondent Barbara Starr.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
BARBARA STARR, CNN PENTAGON CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): The threat of a plane hijacked outside the U.S., then attacking a target here, in part led the nation to code orange alert this week.
Military and civil aviation authorities say they are better prepared now than at any time since 9/11 to deal with terrorist hijacking a commercial airliner.
GEN. RICHARD MYERS, JOINT CHIEFS CHAIRMAN: Since 9/11, the U.S. military has scrambled fighters and vectored air patrols more than 1,600 times to respond to potential air threats.
STARR: Upon entering U.S. airspace, commercial airliners must have a flight plan and communicate with air traffic control. The military's North American Aerospace Defense Command also monitors traffic through its radars.
If the FAA cannot contact a suspect plane, it would ask the military for help. A spokesman says, "After 9/11, we picked up a line of communication with NORAD and never hung up." Air Force or Navy fighters already on alert would be sent to track the aircraft. Military pilots would try to make contact with the plane, and, if that fails, try to force it to land.
Since 9/11, most intercepts have occurred when pilots inadvertently turned off electronics that identify aircraft, accidentally transmitted emergency codes, or when planes have deviated from their flight plans. What about the unthinkable, shooting down a hijacked plane? In the extraordinary circumstance that the president could not be reached in time, it is understood that a small number of senior military officers could make that fateful decision.
(on camera): All of the pieces are now in place, more fighter jet patrols, surface-to-air missiles deployed, the military on alert. The Bush administration hopes this increased state of military readiness will help keep the unthinkable from happening.
Barbara Starr, CNN, the Pentagon.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
KAGAN: Rush Limbaugh launches a counteroffensive, as he faces a drug investigation. He says he was blackmailed by his former maid. We'll talk to her lawyer.
Also, find out how a call from the White House led to an opportunity of a lifetime for one very talented artist.
And tomorrow, join Paula tomorrow for some highlights of the last few months, including her interview with the soldier Jessica Lynch and -- who she calls a real hero.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
KAGAN: And here's what you need to know right now.
More on what may be the first case of mad cow disease on U.S. soil. It could be trouble for the American beef industry. Reuters is reporting that South Korea and Japan are taking steps to ban imports of U.S. beef.
Joining us from Washington, Chandler Keys, vice president of the National Cattlemen's Beef Association. Mr. Keys good evening, thank's for being with us.
Thank you for having me.
KAGAN: Lets get to the latest developments on this story. And that is the two countries, Japan and South Korea saying they don't want for now U.S. beef coming into their countries.
CHANDLER KEYS, NAT'L CATTLEMEN'S BEEF ASSN.: Well, it's not unexpected they would do this. We're asking USDA and our government to have top-level consultations with Japanese and Korean's immediately to come to some understanding how we can get back to normalization after we investigate this unfortunate case of BSE.
KAGAN: You saw what happened to Canada when they had their case of Mad Cow Disease back in May. This is potentially devastating, for this U.S. beef industry, is it not?
KEYS: Well, what we would tell the American consumer is the beef is safe. We have firewalls in place. This cow was caught, the infected agents are not in the beef system. What we need to do is make sure we're relying on science here and not hype and make sure the people understand the beef is safe to eat. That it's -- that the system has worked, that firewalls are in place. And according to Harvard Risk Analysis, even if we did find a case, which now we evidently have, there's very little evidence it would become an epidemic like it has in Europe.
KAGAN: It was concerning to listen to Ann Veneman's news earlier today conference, the agriculture secretary, when she talked about how this was caught and talked about the brain matter and spinal cord didn't go into the system, but the meat did go on to two other stops. That raised some eyebrows in terms of just how far this can go before infected beef would be stopped.
KEYS: Well, the problem is the beef is not infected. The agent is not found in the beef. The agent -- BSE agent or the Mad Cow agent, the disease is only found in the spinal column and their central nervous system like the brain, which the American consumer does not consume that. We consume steaks, roasts, ground beef, and the agent has never been found in those products. So, this is not a case where the agent has gone out into the system, but the safe beef has, which is direct conflict with what happened in Europe, with central agents...
KAGAN: Well, Mr. Keys, let me ask you, because they did have a difficult situation, but don't they have much tougher testing than in the U.S.?
And in Europe now almost every single beef animal is tested, we don't have that here in the U.S., but it makes you wonder this cow was caught, but what else is out there?
KEYS: Well, the problem is the Europeans have to go to the huge measures, because they allowed it to get out of hand. They allowed this disease to become an epidemic. We're not going to allow that here, because we put scientific barriers, scientifically proven barriers in place to make sure if we ever did get a case of BSE, which evidently we have, that the agent would never get out into the consuming public, which it did in Europe. And that's why the Europeans have to take such a broad array of measures, because they let it get out of hand to begin with.
KAGAN: Thank you for being with us tonight. That's Chandler Keys, vice president of the National Cattlemen's Association.
KEYS: Thank you.
KAGAN: And we move on now. Radio host Rush Limbaugh lost a court battle today over his access to private medical records. Those records were seized by the Palm Beach County prosecutor in investigation of what the prosecutor calls doctor shopping. Limbaugh says it's a politically motivated attack. His lawyer says he is being blackmailed.
Joining me with an exclusive interview, is Ed Shohat. He's a criminal defense lawyer from Miami. He is representing Limbaugh's former maid, Wilma Cline. Ms. Cline has admitted supplying Limbaugh with drugs. And apparently she is the one that Mr. Limbaugh thinks was blackmailing him or at least according to his lawyer, Roy Black. Mr. Shohat, good evening, thanks for being with us.
ED SHOHAT, CRIMINAL DEFENSE ATTY.: Good evening, Daryn.
KAGAN: Was your client blackmailing Rush Limbaugh?
SHOHAT: Absolutely not. Wilma Cline categorically denies doing that.
KAGAN: But she did take a lot money from Rush Limbaugh, did she not?
SHOHAT: She took money from Rush Limbaugh, he offered her money, she lost her job. What you have to understand and what the American public has to understand is that Wilma Cline and her husband David went to the state attorney's office voluntary before there was any hint of an investigation, and told them what they did, told them what Rush Limbaugh did, provided documents, including years of e-mails, tape recordings on the answering machine and other documents. Not a hint of even a suggestion of blackmail. And it's the strangest blackmail...
KAGAN: But just even -- Mr. Shohat, let me just jump in here for just a second. Just the idea that this was going on for years, that this was kept secret, that the idea this might not be a secret anymore, could that have been an implied threat?
This didn't happen for a week, it was going on for a long time.
SHOHAT: Right. It happened over a period of many months, Daryn. It's the strangest blackmail I've ever heard of, because Limbaugh demanded that the Cline's sign promissory notes for the money. Have you ever heard of a blackmailed person demanding a promissory note from the blackmailer?
I don't think anybody ever has. And just think about it, even the suggestion of blackmail what did he have to hide that was worth $4 million or that anyone would think was worth $4 million?
Just by suggesting it, he's confessing not to the fact -- just to the fact that he obtained these pills, but that he obtained thousands upon thousands of these pills. $4 million, what did he have to hide that would be even remotely worth that?
KAGAN: Let me just wrap up here by asking, what -- I'm sorry. Finish your thought, and then I'll finish my question..
SHOHAT: Where is he going with this blackmail suggestion? KAGAN: My final question to you, what is your client's legal status right now?
SHOHAT: They're citizens, out trying to earn a living and going on with their lives. They have no legal status other than just trying to go about their lives.
KAGAN: They face no possible criminal charges for buying these pills -- or nothing?
SHOHAT: I'm not the one to ask that question. That would be the state attorney's office. And as I said repeatedly, we're not going to discuss their relationship with the state attorney's office. We're not going to do anything in that regard that might affect or impede an investigation that's going on. We are simply -- the Cline's are simply trying to good about their lives and rebuild their lives after their experience with Rush Limbaugh.
KAGAN: Well, then we will leave it at that. Ed Shohat, thank you for stopping by this evening. Appreciate that.
Joining us from Myrtle Beach radio talk show host Armstrong Williams, he is a friend of Rush Limbaugh and perhaps has a different view of what is going on here. Armstrong, Good evening. Good to have you with us.
ARMSTRONG WILLIAMS, RADIO TALK SHOW HOST: Hello, Daryn. How are you and happy holidays.
KAGAN: Thank you. A couple of matters to go over here with you. Ed Shohat was trying to imply here that this just a smoke screen, that Rush Limbaugh has serious problem with his drug addiction and the is trying to deflect attention from that onto his former house keeper.
WILLIAMS: You know, if you remember some time ago, Mr. Limbaugh did indicate that he considered turning this over to the FBI, and that statement sort of resonated with many people. Obviously, you know, I think this is a further indication of just how feeble and weak he became in the situation he was in, that we have no idea just how devastated he has been over the last several years with this addiction. And it may have gotten to the point where it got out of handle not only with him, but with his domestic help where he may have felt he was threatened, but was too weak to give in, because he was in such desperate need of these drugs.
And obviously, there could have been a conversation, there could have been some kind of interaction where he felt that he could not take it anymore, that he was not only destroying himself, but this situation was getting out of hand. And they may have come to the realization that in order to protect themselves, given their status in his household, that they may need to go forward to alert authorities that Rush Limbaugh was doing something -- some wrongdoing.
KAGAN: Let me just jump in here for just a second. Because just to be clear, it was his attorney, Roy Black, that came out with this blackmail accusation, and Rush Limbaugh did put his statement up on his Web site today, and he really hasn't talked about the blackmail. He talks about a bigger picture. He thinks this is a political conspiracy, that people are out to get him. Do you think that's a legitimate claim?
WILLIAMS: Well, you know, I do find it kind of strange that you're involved in a possible criminal investigation, and no charges have been alleged or filed, and yet you're authorized to release his medical records. I think that's kind of strange. That's certainly not what our justice system is about. Normally you release those medical records after the charges have been filed, and that has not happened yet.
Obviously, I mean, he's a big fish, he's a huge fish. He has many adversaries out there. Some people see him as being a hypocrite, that he preaches one thing yet he does something else in his private life, so obviously he has enemies out there, and obviously he's paranoid, because obviously his mountain has crumbled here over the last several months, and obviously he's tried to make sense out of this.
KAGAN: Well, thank you very much. Armstrong Williams, thank you, and Rush Limbaugh, a man, at the end of the day, a man who has some difficult challenges ahead of him in overcoming his addiction. Armstrong, thank you for that.
WILLIAMS: Thank you, Daryn.
KAGAN: Selling secrets for building weapons of mass destruction, did Pakistan help countries like Libya and Iran with nuclear weapons technology?
The global positioning cell phone. Yes, that's right. A cell phone. You can use it for talking or your boss could use it to track your every move.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
KAGAN: There are disturbing questions tonight about a U.S. ally in the war on terrorism. A spokesman for Pakistan's Foreign Ministry today denied that his country would spread nuclear weapons technology, but admitted that some individuals may have been motivated by greed.
Three scientists are being questioned. Our national security correspondent David Ensor reports on growing suspicions that somehow Pakistani knowledge may have gotten into the wrong hands.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
DAVID ENSOR, CNN NATIONAL SECURITY CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): The growing evidence Pakistani scientists may have helped Iran, North Korea and Libya acquire nuclear weapons technology is raising new concerns in Washington about a key ally.
GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: We've had no better partner in our fight on terror that President Musharraf. ENSOR: When Iran recently shared information on its nuclear suppliers with international regulators, the evidence pointed to Iran getting designs and possibly actual uranium enrichment centrifuges from Pakistani scientists.
DAVID ALBRIGHT, SCIENCE AND INTERNATIONAL SECURITY INSTITUTE: Pakistan is our ally, and in a way they're stabbing us in the back, by helping countries like Iran, North Korea, perhaps even Libya get the wherewithal to make nuclear weapons.
ENSOR: Pakistan's apparent assistance to Iran and the others took place in the '80s and '90s, well before Pakistan's President Musharraf took power.
PATRICK CLAWSON, WASHINGTON INSTITUTE: The horse has bolted out of the barn. We're talking about exports that took place quite a number of years ago. Going forward, of course, we can emphasize that Pakistanis don't do any more of this, but what's already happened has happened.
ENSOR: Scientists who may have sold nuclear secrets have been questioned by authorities in Pakistan this week, including Abdul Qadeer Khan, father of the Pakistani bomb, which was first detonated in 1998, to great celebration.
So far, though, none of the scientists has been charged with any crime.
ALBRIGHT: They have to hold these people accountable, so it sets out a clear warning to other Pakistanis that this will not be tolerated.
ENSOR: What makes the growing evidence against Pakistani scientists all the more worrying is that last week President Musharraf, the leader holding further proliferation in check, narrowly escaped death from a remotely detonated bomb.
ALBRIGHT: If Musharraf somehow falls and an Islamic state is set up, then the problem could become much more.
ENSOR (on camera): Some experts say they suspect the evidence from Libya points to a Pakistani source for its recently revealed centrifuge equipment. Senior U.S. intelligence officials refuse to confirm that, but they do say the information the CIA found in Libya will help track who is selling nuclear equipment on the black market, and it looks as if an ally may have been a major source of nuclear danger.
David Ensor, CNN, Washington.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
KAGAN: The cell phone, it's the latest weapon in spying. Find out how anyone can use them to snoop.
And she had the White House to herself. Meet the woman who worked with the first lady to create the first family's Christmas card.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
KAGAN: The technology used to track felons on patrol (sic) is now being applied to cell phones. Along with companies, many families are signing up for electronic services to make sure they know exactly where their children are at any time, anyplace. Our Adoara Udoji tried one of the new phones out today, and we tried tracking her down.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
ADOARA UDOJI, CNN CORRESPONDENT (on camera): So tell me, where are we?
KAGAN (on camera): Looks like you've headed to Times Square.
UDOJI: You are absolutely correct. We are in Times Square. Can you tell me exactly where we are in Times Square?
KAGAN: You're at about Broadway and 42nd Street or 43rd Street. How did I do?
UDOJI: That's very, very close. We're actually on Broadway between 44th and 45th Street.
So Daryn, tell me, where are we now?
KAGAN: It looks like you are trying to get into the Christmas spirit and going to one of the most Christmasy places in New York City, Rockefeller Center.
UDOJI: You are absolutely correct. Now, tell me, can you pinpoint exactly where we are?
KAGAN: It says your last known location is 20 West 48th Street, and it says you were there one minute ago. How accurate is that?
UDOJI: Actually, you pinpointed us exactly.
KAGAN: Oh, that's great.
Do you want to try one more time and see if you can stomp me?
UDOJI: So, Daryn, guess where we are now?
KAGAN: Looks like you have headed to one of the prettiest, greenest places in all of New York City, and you are right in the middle of Central Park.
UDOJI: We are.
So for the last hour and a half, you've been able to locate where we are every second, almost.
KAGAN: If I look on the cell phone, the specially equipped cell phone, I can also find out exactly where you've been, so even without a computer, I can tell by the cell phone exactly where you are.
UDOJI: Yeah, but you know what, when I turn the phone off, that means you can't track me down anymore. Bye-bye.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
UDOJI: And Daryn, it's also interesting to note that actually this location tracking technology really has gone into high gear since the FCC ordered that by 2005, cell phone providers have to make sure that every cell phone user could be found, their location could be identified immediately for emergency services purposes.
KAGAN: So for emergencies, it sounds great. And for a parent who is looking for a teenager, it sounds great, but there's got to be some abuses out there of this technology. So any guidelines to try to prevent that?
UDOJI: Well, there's absolutely some major concerns. We've talked to several consumer advocates who say privacy, who is going to be able to have access to this material? Who is going to be tracking, paying attention to it? I mean, it's one thing if businesses are trying to figure out what consumers want, if I'm walking down the street and I'm passing Starbucks, then they know. They are also worried about law enforcement. They say guidelines should be set up to make it clear exactly how it should be used.
KAGAN: And just for the record, you said you could run and hide, but look, I found you, you're back here with us tonight.
Thank you for that report, appreciate that.
A first family tradition, it's the White House Christmas card. We'll talk to the artist behind the picture.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
KAGAN: So maybe you are rushing out to the mail to send out the last of your holiday greeting cards. The first family has already mailed theirs, 1.5 million of them, to friends, families and international dignitaries. This year they chose the scene showing the historic White House room where Franklin Roosevelt calmed a worried nation with his fireside chats. The artist is Barbara Ernst Prey. She's an internationally known water colorist, whose subjects range from peaceful New England scenes to paintings of the International Space Station. We talked to her earlier.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
KAGAN: What was that like to get that phone call, guess what? We would like you to paint the White House Christmas card.
BARBARA ERNST PREY, PAINTED WHITE HOUSE GREETINGS: It was an amazing -- as you can imagine, just an amazing phone call. And I think I was so shocked, my response was, I don't think I can say no.
KAGAN: Yeah, I don't think you can say no to the White House, especially when they call, what, in March?
PREY: Right, right, because they plan ahead. It actually took about six months to do the painting.
KAGAN: And we'd like to look at the painting, and you can tell us about what you picked. From what I understand, it's unusual -- they usually have an oil painting, and as we mentioned, you're a water colorist.
PREY: Right. Mrs. Bush had had for a number of years she's had oil painters, and she wanted to switch and do water colors. And she likes the way my water colors are very strong colors, and we also changed the format. It was a vertical, and this year it's horizontal...
KAGAN: Oh, interesting.
PREY: ... card.
KAGAN: And as I understand, you kind of had free rein to run around the White House grounds with your sketch pad?
PREY: Right. I mean, it really is -- the commission is an artist's dream. I was able to paint the South Lawn, and I actually had to get off, because the president was coming, landing with his helicopter, and I did the front, and I was able to walk through all the rooms in the White House.
KAGAN: And so you -- describe the process, you would paint and Mrs. Bush would look at the paintings and you edited it down. What was it like to have Laura Bush as your boss on this project?
PREY: You know, it was -- as you can imagine, it would be -- it was pretty scary -- I was a little nervous. I wouldn't say scary, but a little bit...
KAGAN: Have you ever met her before?
PREY: I had. She's familiar with my work, I had met her before, and they have one of my paintings in the private residence, so she did know my work. But still, you're working for the first lady of the United States...
KAGAN: Hello!
PREY: Right, and the card you know is going out to major heads of states. I did a number of sketches, I did five different rooms, and then presented her with them, and she really liked the Diplomatic Reception Room, which is just a wonderful room, it's warm, it's cozy, it has wonderful color. And that's what she ended up going with.
KAGAN: Was she easy to work for?
PREY: She was so easy to work for. And it was fun. She was easy to work for, she has a great sense of humor, and it was just a really fun project. I wish it had gone on, you know, for a little longer.
KAGAN: I have to ask you, if it's such a big deal to send out the White House Christmas card, but what do you send out for your own Christmas card after that?
PREY: Well, I'll be honest, I actually had to use an image that I've used a couple of years ago, maybe six years ago, as my Christmas card. So hopefully everyone who's gotten it doesn't remember.
KAGAN: There's a rerun.
(AUDIO GAP)
KAGAN: Things were a little bit busy.
PREY: Right.
KAGAN: They should understand.
PREY: Right.
KAGAN: And your next project, with NASA?
PREY: I had just done a painting of the International Space Station before I did this, and now I've been commissioned by NASA to do a painting to commemorate the Columbia tragedy, which will be in February. So that's another big project in itself.
KAGAN: Clearly not the last we've heard from you.
Look forward to seeing that as well.
PREY: Thank you.
KAGAN: Thank you, and happy holidays.
PREY: You too.
KAGAN: Barbara Ernst Prey. If you're one of the lucky 1.5 million to get a Christmas card, you will see her work, from the White House.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
KAGAN: And that's going to do it for us. Thanks for being with us tonight. I'm Daryn Kagan. For those of you heading into the holiday, have a happy and a healthy and a safe one. "LARRY KING LIVE" is up next.
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Penalty; Targets of Terror>
