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Paula Zahn Now

Portrait of Pat Tillman; Interview With John McCain; A Look At Ancient Mesopotamia

Aired April 23, 2004 - 20:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


PAULA ZAHN, CNN ANCHOR: Good evening. Thanks so much for joining us tonight. I'm Paula Zahn.
Today's news reminds us that freedom is not free and along with honor comes sacrifice.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

ZAHN (voice-over): Pat Tillman had it all. A pro-football career, multi-million dollar offers. He gave it all up to be a U.S. soldier in the fight for the war on terror.

PAT TILLMAN, ARMY RANGER: My great grandfather was at Pearl Harbor. And a lot of my family has given up -- has gone and fought in wars. And I really haven't done a damn thing as far as laying myself on the line like that. And so I have a great deal of respect for those that have.

ZAHN: Tonight, the story of an American hero that's also an American tragedy.

Pictures of a planeful of fallen heroes draped in the American flag. So why does the government have a problem with your seeing them?

Magnificent places not seen for decades closed off from the world by Saddam Hussein. We'll take you on a tour of Iraq's once hidden archaeological wonders.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

ZAHN: And "In Focus" tonight, a man whose story embodies the best of what America can be. It sums up the sacrifices that hundreds of Americans and their families have made since September 11, 2001.

In remembering Sergeant pat Tillman, we think of them all. Tillman wearing uniform No. 40 gave up his pro football career with the Arizona Cardinals to become an Army Ranger. Thursday night, he was killed in Afghanistan. A coalition combat patrol was ambushed about 20 miles from Khost. There was a firefight in which Tillman and an Afghan militia soldier were killed.

At this hour in Tempe, Arizona, a memorial for Tillman is taking place at the Cardinals headquarters. I'll talk with his former head coach and with Senator John McCain, who knows something about war and sacrifice. Of course, unless you were an avid football fan, you may have not known Pat Tillman's name before today, but you should know his story.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

ZAHN (voice-over): 9/11 changed our lives forever. NBC star Pat Tillman was no exception. This is what he said the day after the attacks.

TILLMAN: You can kind of take it for granted, especially in the country we live in. We are such a free society. And we look at that flag. And I do -- I've always had a great deal of feeling for the flag. But even someone who considers themselves that way, you just don't think about it all the time. You don't realize what it gives. You don't realize how great a life we have over here what freedoms we're allowed. And that wasn't built overnight.

My great grandfather was at Pearl Harbor. And a lot of my family has given up -- has gone and fought in wars. And I really haven't done a damn thing as far as laying myself on the line like that.

ZAHN: That would change when Pat Tillman made a headline-making decision, influenced, many friends say, by 9/11. Tillman passed up the spotlight of the NFL and a $3.6 million contract with the Arizona Cardinals to join the Army in May of 2002. He decided that right after he got back from his honeymoon.

MICHAEL BIDWILL, VICE PRESIDENT, ARIZONA CARDINALS: There are very few people that could have the courage to do what he did, the courage to walk away from a professional sports career and to make the ultimate sacrifice.

ZAHN: Breaking records in college for his tackling power, Tillman was not just tough, but also described as extremely intelligent. He never granted an interview to explain his decision, preferring to let that decision speak for itself.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

ZAHN: There has been an outpouring of grief at Tillman's death, expert in Tempe.

National correspondent Frank Buckley joins us from the Cardinals headquarters.

Good evening, Frank.

FRANK BUCKLEY, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Good evening, Paula.

No better place to see that outpouring than here at the Cardinals training facility. Take a look at this area where people have been coming throughout the day, a steady stream of people leaving their offerings of condolences, signing a sheet that will go to the family, everyone here to talk about Pat Tillman.

I haven't talked to a single person today who didn't admire Pat Tillman, didn't know about his decision to walk away from football to serve his country. His death has seemingly affected everyone here, from the average person to fellow players.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I felt a personal loss. I had never met him, don't really know -- I don't anyone in his family, but I felt as though somebody I knew had died. And so it was devastating.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: A lot of times in football, the analogies of war are kind of thrown around freely and on a day like today you kind of see how hollow those ring.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BUCKLEY: No word yet on how Pat Tillman will be memorialized here in the Phoenix area. We can tell you that team officials did meet this afternoon to talk about establishing some sort of a permanent memorial. That could be a part of the new stadium that's set to open here in the Phoenix area in 2006 -- Paula.

ZAHN: Frank Buckley, thanks so much.

What motivated Pat Tillman on the playing field and in life?

Joining me is the Arizona Cardinals former head coach Dave McGinnis. Tillman played for him.

Sir, thanks so much for joining us tonight. I know how shattering this news must be to you and members of Pat's team.

What do you want the American public to know about him?

DAVE MCGINNIS, FORMER COACH OF ARIZONA CARDINALS: Well, Paula, I think that, you know, first of all, Pat Tillman was very special to a lot of people, and because he was a very special person. And Pat Tillman embodied and personified honor, integrity, dignity.

He, himself, was the essence of commitment and that was in absolutely everything that he did. He was the ultimate teammate. As far as a coach, he's the ultimate type of player that you wanted, because you knew -- I knew every time that Pat crossed that line for me that he was going to give me every bit and fiber and every bit of his essence out there. And his teammates could feel that.

And it was -- he was that type of person. He touched so many people in so many different ways because he was very definitely a man that had a lot of different facets to him. And they were all endearing to a lot of types of different people.

ZAHN: What do you think drove him?

MCGINNIS: You know, the passion and the commitment that he had, not only for football, but I believe in every aspect of his life, and I could see it, you know, very much as a coach and I was able to coach him in several different capacities as a coordinator, as a head coach. And I can remember going to work him out before the draft. And myself and Larry Marmie, who he was very close to on my staff, who is now with the Saint Louis Rams, we were to put him through -- it started out to be a 15-minute set of drills that we were going to put him through before the draft to see where he could -- if he could change positions. It turned into a 45-minute session, Paula, because he would not let us leave until he had mastered the drills and had done them perfectly.

And that pretty much in essence was Pat Tillman. And whatever he decided to do, he committed to it with his whole being and the whole fiber of him. And that is what endeared him to the fans at Arizona State, to the fans of the Arizona Cardinals, to his teammates, to the National Football League. And the last time that I saw him and spoke with him, I think that's what brought him. And he was so proud to be a Ranger, he and his brother, and what they had accomplished there.

And just to be in the presence of someone that is that committed to everything that they do is pretty wonderful.

ZAHN: And Pat actually visited the Cardinals locker room late last year.

MCGINNIS: Paula, he had asked for he and his brother, his wife and two of their friends -- he called Larry Marmie, who was on my staff, and then myself to ask if he could to our ball game when we played Seattle late in the year.

I took that request to Mr. Bidwill, who is the owner of the Cardinals. He facilitated that, made it happen, made it work. Pat was able to stay with his wife, his brother, his friends in our team hotel. But he didn't want it to be about himself. I asked him several times if he would like to address the team, and he really didn't want to. He finally acquiesced and came down to the team dinner.

And immediately upon him entering that team dinner, Paula, you could just -- you could see those players that had been with him, of course, they were elated. They didn't know he was coming, just their reaction to him. But the younger players who didn't know him but knew of him, you could sense a command of respect because of what they heard about him and then, of course, of what he was doing.

And then we were able to spend several hours in the room with Coach Marmie myself and those young people. And it was, for me, to sit -- I was sitting back and taking it all in. Those are the memories that I'm taking right now with me and reflecting back upon it. What a live, vibrant room that was with those young people.

ZAHN: And a man whose character never allowed it to be about him.

MCGINNIS: Absolutely.

ZAHN: That's interesting to note about to our viewers. This was a man who refused to even do interviews when he enlisted. MCGINNIS: Paula, when he came to me with his decision when I was the head coach and that this was what he's decided to do, he was very emphatic about that, that he did not want to be singled out, did not want to considered anything special, and felt like that there were thousands of young men and women across the country that were making this choice. And he didn't want to be singled out a bit.

And, of course, in my conversations with him, Paula, I was trying to tell him, this is going to be attention-gathering. And, you know, we're going to have to deal with this. And he said, coach, I'm not going to deal with it. You deal with it and you do it for me.

And I've always honored that request, because it was -- to me, it was very, very important to him and he felt very deeply about it.

ZAHN: What a measure of a man.

Coach McGinnis, thank you for sharing your memories of him tonight.

MCGINNIS: Paula, thank you very much for having me. It's my pleasure.

ZAHN: Also among those paying tribute to Tillman was Senator John McCain of Arizona. McCain, of course, was a prisoner of war in Vietnam and knows about the high cost of sacrificing for freedom.

He joined me from Tucson.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

ZAHN: Senator McCain, thank you very much for joining us tonight.

As we celebrate the life of a great American hero, what is the lesson that Pat Tillman taught all Americans?

SEN. JOHN MCCAIN (R), ARIZONA: I think Pat Tillman taught all Americans that there's no nobler cause than to sacrifice for your country and for freedom. And that's what he was doing. And he did it without fanfare, without press releases and certainly a significant financial and lifestyle difference than he could have enjoyed.

ZAHN: I know this is a young man you watched win games at Arizona State and you also watched him once he played pro ball with the Arizona Cardinals. What was your personal reaction when you heard this news?

MCCAIN: I was heartbroken. The loss of every young American is a tragedy, but Pat epitomized so much to us here in Arizona.

He was underweight and no one ever thought he would play at Arizona State. He played magnificently. No one thought he'd make it with the pros. And then after 9/11, when he -- after he was married, he decided that he wanted to serve his country. He and his brother joined up. He never gave a press conference, Paula. He never publicized or exploited in any way his service. He just believed that it was his duty to serve his country and fight this war and this long struggle that we're in.

ZAHN: I know you've talked a little bit about how inspiring his patriotism should be to all of us, but you've also said that you believe this delivers a heavy blow to the nation's morale. Share some of those feelings with us tonight.

MCCAIN: It always hurts our morale when we lose one of our most wonderful and fine young Americans.

And to many of us, not just in leadership, but our average citizen here in the state of Arizona, he symbolized so much. He symbolized excellence, where he gave us so much enjoyment and excitement on the playing field. And then we were startled and then struck in admiration when he decided he and his brother, Kevin, to join the Army after 9/11.

And it is a heavy blow for us when we think about his wife and his brother and his hundreds of thousands, if not millions, of fans who loved and admired Pat.

ZAHN: Sir, you just talked a little bit about how shaken Pat Tillman was by the events of 9/11. What does it symbolize to you that he likely lost his life to al Qaeda fighters?

MCCAIN: I believe that history and future generations of Americans will say that Pat Tillman epitomized the Americans who heard his country's call after 9/11, who -- the classic citizen soldier who left a far more comfortable and much more financially remunerative existence in order to go out and serve his country and fight and try to destroy those who we know are attempting to destroy us.

ZAHN: What does it tell us about this ongoing war on terror?

MCCAIN: It tells us that we're in a long, hard struggle both in Iraq and in Afghanistan and in other parts of the world. And it's going to require probably more of our most precious asset. And that's our young American blood.

And that is something that I think we need to face up to. And, yet, we can look with great pride that we live in a country that produces the Pat Tillmans, who are unique in all the world.

ZAHN: Well, we thank you, Senator, for sharing some of your thoughts with us on this very sad night.

MCCAIN: Thank you, Paula.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

ZAHN: These pictures were taken so their sacrifice would never be forgotten. So why did the Pentagon insist on keeping them from the public?

And the pilot of this Black Hawk helicopter shot down in Somalia, we'll ask him about his sacrifice as a POW and about the war in Iraq.

And a hostile welcome home for Japanese who were held hostage in Iraq. Instead of yellow ribbons, they were bowing in shame.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

ZAHN: Americans have been waiting for any news of Army Reservist Keith Matthew Maupin. He is the private being held captive by militants in Iraq.

But just over 10 years ago, there was another conflict and another POW that held the nation's attention. In Somalia in the Horn of Africa, a group of courageous soldiers were shot down as their Black Hawk helicopter flew above the city of Mogadishu. It is another story of sacrifice and a story of survival.

Joining us now from Huntsville, Alabama, is Michael Durant. He was the pilot of one of those Black Hawks. He spent 11 days as a captive of hostile forces. He has written a book about the experience called "In the Company of Heroes."

We all feel like we're in the company of a hero this evening.

Welcome, Michael.

MICHAEL DURANT, AUTHOR, "IN THE COMPANY OF HEROES": Thank you. Good evening.

ZAHN: Let's talk a little bit about the sacrifice Pat Tillman made. A lot of young people wouldn't have given up the glory of that multimillion-dollar contract he could have signed to serve his nation.

What is the impact that his sacrifice you think has on other young people?

DURANT: Well, I agree with Senator McCain. It certainly has a demoralizing effect in the short term, but I think in the long term we'll look at Pat as truly a source of inspiration.

You know, everybody, every soldier, airman and Marine that's in Iraq or fighting in the war on terrorism in Afghanistan as well has made a sacrifice. But it would be hard to find anyone who made as great a sacrifice as Pat Tillman. He was truly a great American fighting alongside an army of great Americans.

ZAHN: Let's remind our audience of what you were up against when you were taken basically captive in Mogadishu. What was the hardest part of those 11 days?

DURANT: Well, I think of my family first. And my heart goes out to the family of anyone who's missing or in captivity.

It's the unknown, you know, will he make it out alive or will she make it out alive, or will they not? And for me in captivity, it was not knowing the whereabouts of my comrades. There were six of us at crash site two and I didn't find out what happened to everyone else until I was actually released. I heard some news reports, but not the final word until being released.

And, you know, you hold out hope that somehow, some way your comrades survived. And not knowing is troubling, along with, obviously, the physical challenge and the psychological stress of captivity.

ZAHN: People like John McCain have talked over the years about not knowing what kind of resolve and what strength you have until you're severely tested. But were there points of your captivity where you didn't think you were going to survive?

DURANT: Well, I think so. I think that probably goes through everyone's mind in an experience like that. There's some very dynamic situations where I think your life literally hangs by a thread and choices that you can't anticipate have to be made.

And, hopefully, you've got the right training and you've got your wits about you. And it's certainly an all on you. A lot of it is fate and fortune and those around you, but you do your best and you push on through it and you try to make it through I think a piece at a time. I certainly can't compare 11 days to five years or seven years, but I think while you're in it, not knowing how long it will last, it's truly a struggle that you break into pieces and take it one step at a time, minute by minute, day by day.

ZAHN: A little bit earlier, we were looking at that horrific picture of your face badly bruised. When you see those pictures of yourself, can you even believe that one of the techniques you employed with your captors was a sense of humor at some point?

DURANT: Well, you know, in fact, I look back at it now and it almost seems surreal. It seems like a different life. I live in such a different place now that it's hard to even believe that it was me at times.

But when the dust settles and things slow down, your mind is active and you try to figure out ways to make your situation better. And one of the things that I was doing was try to establish relationships with individuals that had me captive. And I guess I've always had a reputation as always having a sense of humor. And I did make a few jokes from time to time.

And I guess maybe it's a stress reliever, but there were actually times when I chuckled in captivity.

ZAHN: Well, Michael Durant, you tell it all beautifully and powerfully in the book "In the Company of Heroes." Thank you for sharing part of your story with us this evening.

DURANT: Thank you, Paula.

ZAHN: And these former hostages went to Iraq to do some good, but did they receive a hero's welcome when they came home?

And damaging charges that a U.N. program to feed starving Iraqis actually fattened the bank accounts of country -- companies and Saddam Hussein. The man who ran it defends the program.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

ZAHN: And now on to the story of sacrifice without honor.

In addition to those who gave their lives in battle, other risk dangers as journalists covering the war, as humanitarian workers helping suffering civilians. That was the case with three young Japanese held captive and threatened with death by Iraqi militants earlier this month. When they were eventually released and they returned home, they might have expected a warm welcome. Instead, what they got was very different.

Atika Shubert reports from Tokyo.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

ATIKA SHUBERT, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): It was not a warm welcome. The released Japanese hostages landed in their home country blinded by media lights, facing national disapproval, bordering on harassment.

Though none of the hostages would speak to the media, they came off the plane bowing deeply in apology.

(on camera): Local media have pried into their private lives, suggesting that hostages staged their own kidnappings. And letters from the public have labeled them Japan's shame.

(voice-over): Politicians have been more subtle, saying hostages should pay the costs of their own release, including the chartered plane out of Iraq.

JUNICHIRO KOIZUMI, JAPANESE PRIME MINISTER (through translator): I want those who flew into Iraq, ignoring the government's warning, to consider how much effort my staff made working around the clock to solve the problems they caused.

SHUBERT: Why the anger? When this video first flashed across the country, the hostages became the center of a heated debate dividing Japan. Should the country support the U.S. occupation of Iraq? Should Japanese troops be in Iraq at all?

Initially, peace activists paraded pictures of the three aide workers and two journalists as martyrs to the cause. But with freedom, some of the hostages said they wanted to remain working in Iraq, adding fuel to the fire. The public remains evenly divided.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE (through translator): Their intentions were admirable, but they and their families did not handle the situation well. They took the wrong actions and said the wrong things.

SHUBERT: The abduction, it seems, was only part of their ordeal. Coming home has also taken its toll.

Atika Shubert, CNN, Tokyo. (END VIDEOTAPE)

ZAHN: Coming up, pictures of those who lost their lives in battle. Why doesn't the Pentagon want us to see them?

And thousands of historic sites sacred to three religions are in Iraq. You're going to meet a man who made a very dangerous journey to rediscover them.

And then, on Monday, why is Kobe Bryant's accuser afraid to return to her hometown of Eagle, Colorado? We'll have that story for you on Monday.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

ZAHN: As the world debates whether the United Nations should be involved in the new Iraq, a new investigation is now under way into corruption in the oil for food program the U.N. ran for Iraq. Here's a little background. Because Saddam Hussein didn't keep his promises after the Gulf war, the U.N. imposed economic sanctions. It resulted in widespread hardship among ordinary Iraqis. So starting in 1996, Iraq was allowed to sell oil in order to buy food and medicine for its people. Well, since no one trusted Saddam Hussein, the U.N. acted as the middleman.

What has come to light is that Iraq allegedly added extra charges onto the oil it sold. The extra allegedly went to Saddam's regime. Now, at the other end of the line, some businesses were overcharging the U.N. for food and medicine. That extra, they claim, went on to Saddam's regime.

Joining me now, Denis Halliday, who served as the coordinator of the U.N.'s oil for food program in 1997 and 1998. Good to see you, sir.

DENIS HALLIDAY, FORMER DIR., U.N. OIL FOR FOOD PROGRAM: Thank you.

ZAHN: During the two-year period, did you ever see any evidence of kickbacks going to Saddam Hussein?

HALLIDAY: Not directly. Kickbacks, certainly not. What I did witness many times was the shipment of gasoline and oil into Turkey in large quantities, which was approved by the United States and monitored by satellites in response to Turkey's being economically hurt by the sanctions on Iraq -- wide open, daylight. And that, according to some of the newspapers, accounts for some $5 billion in income, which went into the hands of some of the Kurds, but particularly into the family in Baghdad.

ZAHN: Do you think that it became more obvious that that was becoming standard operating procedure after you resigned?

HALLIDAY: I think the kickbacks on sales and the kickbacks on contracts of purchasing seemed to have developed in perhaps, I don't know when, '99, 2000, after I'd long gone. But the early days of exporting oil to Turkey and Jordan was well known by the Security Council, by Washington.

ZAHN: Were you personally ever offered any kickbacks?

HALLIDAY: I was not, no.

ZAHN: Was there any strange way that anybody approached you about trying to increase the shipment of oil to any of these other countries that accepted oil from Iraq?

HALLIDAY: No. The whole oil shipment process was handled by the ministry, by SOMO (ph). They dealt directly outside the United Nations with potential buyers, whether they were Russian, Chinese. They weren't selling to the United States directly, but indirectly to Exxon. They dealt totally differently, separately from what I -- I was there purely for the oil for food itself, overseeing the preparations, the imports and the distribution system. That was my job.

ZAHN: You believe, though, the U.S. was actually aware of some of the corruption in this program, particularly when it came to allies like Turkey and Jordan. What was going on?

HALLIDAY: Oil sales. They felt that Turkey needed compensation for the fact that their economy was damaged, they claim, to the tune of $30 billion by the sanctions on Iraq. A very large trading partner. So the United States justified, I believe, those exports. But they also knew the income was going to Saddam Hussein and the government in Baghdad. The Jordanian deal was actually a protocol, recognized, I believe, by the United Nations because Jordan was solely dependent on Iraq for its oil supply. So that was fairly much aboveboard.

ZAHN: Was there any sense of outrage, though, when it became clear to some of you working on the program that the U.S. allegedly was turning a blind eye, knowing that some of this money was going back to Saddam Hussein?

HALLIDAY: Yes. I mean, it struck me as strange at the time. Not...

ZAHN: Strange? Or...

HALLIDAY: Well...

ZAHN: Can you think of a, you know, harsher word?

HALLIDAY: We're talking about the United States. We're talking about the private sector. The private sector is all about kickbacks, whether it's oil sales or whether it's purchasing. Why would I be surprised? I mean, my concern was the revenue that was legitimately collected and put in the U.N. accounts, the revenue that was legitimately used by the U.N. to meet the contracts negotiated by the government with people all over the world, including United States wheat sales or Brazil or Australia or Vietnam whatever on rice. This was all aboveboard and legitimate. Now, inside those contracts, it now seems, there was a 10 percent here or 50 cents there on the key (ph), though. That is unknown, I think, certainly, to my office, but I think even New York. The Council, the Security Council, you could argue, should have known. I don't think they did necessarily. Now, were they playing games? Well, some of them may have been.

ZAHN: Who's to blame for it?

HALLIDAY: Well, I think we have to look at the member states of the U.N. The U.N. is not Kofi Annan and the team. The U.N. is the people who run the Security Council, particularly the five permanent members. They dominate the sanctions regime. They dominated oil for food. They handled most of these sales. They have to take responsibility. If we find, after this investigation, that some of us inside the secretariat were careless or negligent or even crooked, then we'll have to take our responsibilities.

ZAHN: Does this -- if it ends up that these allegations are true, does this make the U.N. a joke, when it comes to the issue of credibility?

HALLIDAY: Well, a joke is a very strong word. I think if there has been hanky-panky, let's get it out and get it in the open because this is the time when the U.N. would seem to have a new role in Iraq, and this needs to be clarified as quickly as possible.

And I believe an investigation has now been agreed upon. Paul Volcker is going to chair this thing, I believe. The sooner the better. But I don't believe we're going to find a scandal in the secretariat of the U.N. I don't think we'll find U.N. staff, like myself, guilty of taking monies or diverting monies from the people, the children of Iraq, whom, after all, we were killing, sad to say, under the sanctions regime.

ZAHN: Denis Halliday, we're going to leave it there.

For another perspective now we turn to a member of Congress. The United Nations gets roughly a quarter of its money from U.S. taxpayers, so Congress is taking a hard look at the scandal. Representative Christopher Shays of Connecticut is one of those on the congressional committees that are investigating the oil for food program. He joins us from Stamford, Connecticut.

Good of you to join us, sir. First of all, your reaction to some of what Mr. Halliday just charged, that the Security Council should have been aware of some of these activities to go on, and he basically said the United States was aware of some of this money going back to Saddam Hussein. Your reaction?

REP. CHRISTOPHER SHAYS (R), CONNECTICUT: Well, the U.N. was aware. We were, I think, aware, as well. The bottom line is, when you undersell oil for no good reason, you're going to have kickbacks. And when you overpay for commodities -- I mean, Saddam was overpaying for the things he was buying -- there are going to be kickbacks, as well. We're talking about a $10 billion rip-off, probably the biggest amount of fraud ever in the history of the world. And the only issue really is not did it happen, but who is responsible, and what are we going to do about it?

ZAHN: So in your judgment, based on the hearings you've held so far, who is to blame?

SHAYS: Oh, I think a lot of member states are involved. I think a lot of individuals. I mean, one of the exciting things for me is that the Iraqi Governing Council has wanted to get to the bottom of this, and they leaked information to one of the Iraqi papers. I rejoice in that because you have Iraqis who want what's going in Iraq to be an Iraqi revolution, and as feeble as it may seem, they're speaking out and saying, we, the Iraqi people, were ripped off, and we want the world to deal with us and come clean. And the world has to.

ZAHN: You talk about members of the U.N., and based on what you know so far, who were the most egregious abusers of the system? Which countries?

SHAYS: Well, Russia is right at the top of the list. I mean, there was a system where you would set the price of oil, and there's supposed to be three members in that process, and there was only one, the Russians. And when we tried to add more people, they kept vetoing adding the additional people. The Russians are clearly major players.

Now, the United States wasn't the middleman in this, but we bought 44 percent of Iraq oil. And I do agree -- I think it was Denis who was on your program making the point that we knew that Jordan and Turkey was involved, and we did turn the other way a bit because we knew that they had suffered so much from the sanctions that they had to get something out of this, but nothing like the $10 billion we ever imagined.

ZAHN: But weren't U.S. officials supposedly reviewing these contracts?

SHAYS: They were. And I think they were content that the sanctions were still surviving, and I think that was very important to them. So yes, we're going to find out what Americans knew, as well. And we're going to have to get some good answers.

ZAHN: How damaging do you think this could be for the U.N. in the short term and long term?

SHAYS: Well, it is damaging for the U.N., but the real damage would be if they try to cover it up. Paul Volcker is going to do a great job. There is a resolution. Kofi Annan called me up two days ago and said he's going to let this go wherever, you know, the money leads us. And so, if the U.N. cleans this up -- first acknowledges what they did, allows the information to be told and reforms their systems, then I think the U.N. will survive. But if it tries to cover this all up, then it will just be a disgrace.

ZAHN: Congressman Chris Shays, thank you very much for your time. Denis Halliday, thank you for dropping by, as well.

HALLIDAY: Thank you.

ZAHN: Appreciate both of your perspectives.

Coming up: Sites sacred to the Bible and the Quran were hidden for decades by Saddam. Now they're being rediscovered. The amazing lost world of Iraq coming up.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

ZAHN: Our next story is about politics, policy and honoring America's fallen. For years, the Pentagon has had a policy of not allowing the coffins of American war dead to be photographed. It says it's out of respect for the families. But critics say it's really about keeping the fallen soldiers out of the sight of the American public. It's a conflict that even war hero, former prisoner of war and U.S. senator John McCain feels personally.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. JOHN MCCAIN (R), ARIZONA: I, like most Americans, are of two minds. I'm torn between we don't want to invade the privacy of the families and make their sorrow any worse. At the same time, we don't want anything concealed from the American people as to how hard this struggle is and that it will continue to require sacrifice.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ZAHN: So the question is, how do we strike a balance? Ivan Medina lost his twin brother, Irving, in Iraq. He thinks the photos should not be published. He joins us by phone from Hinesville, Georgia.

Thank you very much for joining us tonight, sir. First of all, your reaction to some of the pictures now that have been splashed over front pages of newspapers and have basically been seen around the clock for almost the last 24 hours.

IVAN MEDINA, BROTHER KILLED IN IRAQ: Well, I believe those are personal pictures, not only to the family but to the soldiers who are actually doing this. They -- you know, we honor the soldiers that have been killed. I include honor my brother for it. I used to work with doing a lot with that, and that becomes a personal grieving point for the soldiers and for -- and the fallen comrades that we are there -- having there. So I believe that's a personal picture, and you should not publicize something like that.

ZAHN: Are you offended, then, by these pictures the American public has been exposed to?

MEDINA: I'm torn in between because I understand what people are saying, and we should have that right, but at the same time, it's a private picture between the soldiers, and it's also out of respect for the family. And we should honor that fallen comrade and not make it a political statement for it.

ZAHN: How about the point that Senator John McCain was saying, that you don't want the reality of war to be concealed from the American public?

MEDINA: Well, you know, the families have the right to allow the press to go in and be at the funerals and at the wakes and everything because we did that with my brother. It's a family decision that we took, and that's when the reality can hit American -- the American people. But when they're coming home, I believe that, yes, the families should be there, but those pictures of soldiers taking care of their fallen comrades are personal to those soldiers because they grieve through that, and we honor them with that.

ZAHN: I understand what you're saying. I know a lot of people feel that way. But as reflected in e-mails we've received today and in conversations I've actually had with a couple families members who've also lost some of their own, they truly believe that this is the only way that you can cut through the clinical numbers that are fed to the American public every day. And they say American public does need to understand the cost, and it's only through seeing these horrific pictures that they understand that.

MEDINA: No, I don't believe so. I believe they -- people can understand it with -- like people like myself. I -- you know, I have become where I've talked to many radio stations, many other people, because I'm not for this war. And I think I do a good job. And the cost of the American people -- we have lost a lot of lives out there. But we also want to honor them and not make their return home very publicized because it's something we just need to respect for that fallen soldier and for their the family, too.

ZAHN: Well, Ivan Medina, we appreciate your sharing your point of view when your loss is so fresh. We are very sorry...

MEDINA: Thank you.

ZAHN: ... to hear about your brother.

MEDINA: Thank you.

ZAHN: Good luck to you and your family.

MEDINA: You, too.

ZAHN: And when we come back: from the Garden of Eden to Babylon and beyond. You're about to meet a man who took a very dangerous journey to show Iraq's forgotten treasures to the world.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

ZAHN: During this hour, we've seen many examples of sacrifices for war. Now we're going to meet someone who took a risk for beauty and history, traveling to a part of Iraq completely off limits during the reign of Saddam Hussein. The region known as the cradle of civilization, and it is home of more than 10,000 ancient sites. Lawlessness in Iraq makes it extremely dangerous to visit some of these place, but Bruce Feiler, best-selling author of the book "Abraham: A Journey to the Heart of Three Faiths," and photographer Gwendolyn Katz (ph) took the risk. Their trip is featured in this Sunday's "Parade" magazine.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

BRUCE FEILER, AUTHOR, "ABRAHAM": This is Mesopotamia, the land between the rivers. The Garden of Eden was here, the Bible says. The Tower of Babel was here. The alphabet was first invented here. Writing was first scripted here.

ZAHN (voice-over): Bruce Feiler has traveled all over the world, retracing the Bible, exploring the mountain associated with Noah's Ark, crossing the Red Sea, climbing Mount Sinai. Yet Iraq's cradle of civilization had always been strictly off limits.

FEILER: Basically, they have been largely closed off to the West. One of the things that Saddam did is very interesting because he didn't want to forget these sites. What he wanted to do was to link himself to these sites in Babylon, for example. Saddam reconstructed Babylon as a sort of Six Flags, and 2he carved his initial in Babylon, in Patra (ph), in Nimbra (ph). He carved his own initials thousands and thousands of times over this -- these monuments, to say, I am their heir.

ZAHN (on camera): There are about 10,000 ancient sites in Iraq today. What kind of shape are they, post-Saddam and post-war?

FEILER: I actually spent some time with John Russell, who is the archeologist from Boston who works for the CPA. He's been there a year in Baghdad. He said thousands of sites, each one of which could have rewritten our history books hundreds of times, have simply been destroyed. And so he and I were actually in Babylon at the time, having this conversation, and I said, Well, you know, one of the most famous lines in the Bible is, "By the rivers of Babylon we sat and wept." And he just cut me off. He said, You can't go to these sites and see the destruction and not weep.

ZAHN (voice-over): The journey was treacherous. Feiler and his team flew into Baghdad on a military transport. To avoid shoulder- launched missiles, a corkscrew landing. In an unmarked, unarmored car, they drove through war-torn towns like Nasiriyah and Basra.

(on camera): How dangerous was your whole journey?

FEILER: Well, in addition to the basic problems, which is you've got to have body armor and a helmet and a satellite phone, it's incredibly complicated. You can't go out in the mornings because it's unsafe. You can't go out after 4:00 PM. At 2:00 PM every day, we had to go to our hotel, lock ourselves in and send our guys out to bring us food. You can't go in an SUV because the SUVs are mostly from the military. You can't drive over dead animals because that's where they put the roadside bombs.

ZAHN (voice-over): Yet despite the danger, Feiler was able to see things he and others had only dreamed of.

(on camera): Did you find the Garden of Eden? FEILER: An abject town just north of Basra, where there were just suicide bombings, and basically, alongside those banks is a small garden, OK? It's about the size of an outdoor basketball court. It's got two living olive trees and one dead one, and it's covered in concrete.

ZAHN: No markers...

FEILER: No markers...

ZAHN: ... indicating this is...

(CROSSTALK)

ZAHN: ... the Garden of Eden.

FEILER: In fact, the Garden of Eden actually is not really a big part of Islamic lore. It actually is a biblical identification. And so I think one of the things this is doing is showing the interfaith connections in this part of the world. And we got there, and there were the kids there, and it filled with hope. And then really minutes later, these thugs came, flashed guns, told our guards that they wanted to mug us and take our equipment. And within minutes, we were told it's too unsafe, we got to go, and we were leaving. And to me, it's really in some ways a great metaphor because all across the country, there is no Eden now.

ZAHN: What was the most extraordinary thing you saw, historically?

FEILER: I would say it would be going to Samara. Samara was the oldest -- the first great empire, the oldest civilization. It's right outside Nasiriyah. And this is where Abraham was born. I dreamed of going to this place for years. We got there. It's alongside an air base. And the centerpiece, there's a zigurrat, one of these giant stepped pyramids. Threw off our body armor, climbed to the top. And then we met these soldiers who'd spent a year living at this base alongside this zigurrat, and they said it was very moving to realize that this was the origin of the idea that the faiths come from one man, Abraham.

ZAHN: Did you have an emotional reaction to seeing it?

FEILER: It was deeply emotional for me. I mean, that was the moment I think that I really welled up because I think what the Bible is trying to tell us is that there is this common ancestor and that that ancestor the common father of Jews, Christians and Muslims. And that, of course, is the lesson that we most need today. That's why I took my life in my hand to go.

ZAHN: This trip was a life-long dream for you. How did the reality of what you saw match up to what you dreamed about?

FEILER: Straight across Iraq, there go the Tigris and Euphrates Rivers, and all these sites, the Garden of Eden or Babylon, Ninevah, Nimbra (ph) -- these are stories we read about in the Bible and we learn about in 3rd grade.

So while it was much more dangerous, in many ways, to me, it felt much more like home and much more familiar than other Middle Eastern countries because you do feel like this is my place. I came from this place. And I hope, as the war is going on and even as there is tragedy daily in the news, that we don't lose sight of the fact that not only is this all of our problems to solve now, this is the place that all of us come from. And for me, it was like, oh, I've touched that bedrock, and now I know that there's a part of me that will always be there.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

ZAHN: Bruce Feiler, thank you for the amazing journey. We'll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

ZAHN: A Little bit earlier tonight, we told you about Army Ranger and former pro football player Pat Tillman's death in Afghanistan, and his death focuses our attention on the sacrifices made by all of America's fighting men and women. And in the time we have left, we want to remember and pay tribute to them, as well.

You're looking at some of the names of the U.S. troops who have died within the past seven days in Iraq and Afghanistan. They are only a fraction of the men and women we have lost. The military has not yet released the names of all of those troops killed since Tuesday. But in all, 708 U.S. troops have died in Iraq, 117 gave their lives in Afghanistan. We salute them all.

And we want to thank you so much for joining us tonight. Good night.

TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com


Aired April 23, 2004 - 20:00   ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
PAULA ZAHN, CNN ANCHOR: Good evening. Thanks so much for joining us tonight. I'm Paula Zahn.
Today's news reminds us that freedom is not free and along with honor comes sacrifice.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

ZAHN (voice-over): Pat Tillman had it all. A pro-football career, multi-million dollar offers. He gave it all up to be a U.S. soldier in the fight for the war on terror.

PAT TILLMAN, ARMY RANGER: My great grandfather was at Pearl Harbor. And a lot of my family has given up -- has gone and fought in wars. And I really haven't done a damn thing as far as laying myself on the line like that. And so I have a great deal of respect for those that have.

ZAHN: Tonight, the story of an American hero that's also an American tragedy.

Pictures of a planeful of fallen heroes draped in the American flag. So why does the government have a problem with your seeing them?

Magnificent places not seen for decades closed off from the world by Saddam Hussein. We'll take you on a tour of Iraq's once hidden archaeological wonders.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

ZAHN: And "In Focus" tonight, a man whose story embodies the best of what America can be. It sums up the sacrifices that hundreds of Americans and their families have made since September 11, 2001.

In remembering Sergeant pat Tillman, we think of them all. Tillman wearing uniform No. 40 gave up his pro football career with the Arizona Cardinals to become an Army Ranger. Thursday night, he was killed in Afghanistan. A coalition combat patrol was ambushed about 20 miles from Khost. There was a firefight in which Tillman and an Afghan militia soldier were killed.

At this hour in Tempe, Arizona, a memorial for Tillman is taking place at the Cardinals headquarters. I'll talk with his former head coach and with Senator John McCain, who knows something about war and sacrifice. Of course, unless you were an avid football fan, you may have not known Pat Tillman's name before today, but you should know his story.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

ZAHN (voice-over): 9/11 changed our lives forever. NBC star Pat Tillman was no exception. This is what he said the day after the attacks.

TILLMAN: You can kind of take it for granted, especially in the country we live in. We are such a free society. And we look at that flag. And I do -- I've always had a great deal of feeling for the flag. But even someone who considers themselves that way, you just don't think about it all the time. You don't realize what it gives. You don't realize how great a life we have over here what freedoms we're allowed. And that wasn't built overnight.

My great grandfather was at Pearl Harbor. And a lot of my family has given up -- has gone and fought in wars. And I really haven't done a damn thing as far as laying myself on the line like that.

ZAHN: That would change when Pat Tillman made a headline-making decision, influenced, many friends say, by 9/11. Tillman passed up the spotlight of the NFL and a $3.6 million contract with the Arizona Cardinals to join the Army in May of 2002. He decided that right after he got back from his honeymoon.

MICHAEL BIDWILL, VICE PRESIDENT, ARIZONA CARDINALS: There are very few people that could have the courage to do what he did, the courage to walk away from a professional sports career and to make the ultimate sacrifice.

ZAHN: Breaking records in college for his tackling power, Tillman was not just tough, but also described as extremely intelligent. He never granted an interview to explain his decision, preferring to let that decision speak for itself.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

ZAHN: There has been an outpouring of grief at Tillman's death, expert in Tempe.

National correspondent Frank Buckley joins us from the Cardinals headquarters.

Good evening, Frank.

FRANK BUCKLEY, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Good evening, Paula.

No better place to see that outpouring than here at the Cardinals training facility. Take a look at this area where people have been coming throughout the day, a steady stream of people leaving their offerings of condolences, signing a sheet that will go to the family, everyone here to talk about Pat Tillman.

I haven't talked to a single person today who didn't admire Pat Tillman, didn't know about his decision to walk away from football to serve his country. His death has seemingly affected everyone here, from the average person to fellow players.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I felt a personal loss. I had never met him, don't really know -- I don't anyone in his family, but I felt as though somebody I knew had died. And so it was devastating.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: A lot of times in football, the analogies of war are kind of thrown around freely and on a day like today you kind of see how hollow those ring.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BUCKLEY: No word yet on how Pat Tillman will be memorialized here in the Phoenix area. We can tell you that team officials did meet this afternoon to talk about establishing some sort of a permanent memorial. That could be a part of the new stadium that's set to open here in the Phoenix area in 2006 -- Paula.

ZAHN: Frank Buckley, thanks so much.

What motivated Pat Tillman on the playing field and in life?

Joining me is the Arizona Cardinals former head coach Dave McGinnis. Tillman played for him.

Sir, thanks so much for joining us tonight. I know how shattering this news must be to you and members of Pat's team.

What do you want the American public to know about him?

DAVE MCGINNIS, FORMER COACH OF ARIZONA CARDINALS: Well, Paula, I think that, you know, first of all, Pat Tillman was very special to a lot of people, and because he was a very special person. And Pat Tillman embodied and personified honor, integrity, dignity.

He, himself, was the essence of commitment and that was in absolutely everything that he did. He was the ultimate teammate. As far as a coach, he's the ultimate type of player that you wanted, because you knew -- I knew every time that Pat crossed that line for me that he was going to give me every bit and fiber and every bit of his essence out there. And his teammates could feel that.

And it was -- he was that type of person. He touched so many people in so many different ways because he was very definitely a man that had a lot of different facets to him. And they were all endearing to a lot of types of different people.

ZAHN: What do you think drove him?

MCGINNIS: You know, the passion and the commitment that he had, not only for football, but I believe in every aspect of his life, and I could see it, you know, very much as a coach and I was able to coach him in several different capacities as a coordinator, as a head coach. And I can remember going to work him out before the draft. And myself and Larry Marmie, who he was very close to on my staff, who is now with the Saint Louis Rams, we were to put him through -- it started out to be a 15-minute set of drills that we were going to put him through before the draft to see where he could -- if he could change positions. It turned into a 45-minute session, Paula, because he would not let us leave until he had mastered the drills and had done them perfectly.

And that pretty much in essence was Pat Tillman. And whatever he decided to do, he committed to it with his whole being and the whole fiber of him. And that is what endeared him to the fans at Arizona State, to the fans of the Arizona Cardinals, to his teammates, to the National Football League. And the last time that I saw him and spoke with him, I think that's what brought him. And he was so proud to be a Ranger, he and his brother, and what they had accomplished there.

And just to be in the presence of someone that is that committed to everything that they do is pretty wonderful.

ZAHN: And Pat actually visited the Cardinals locker room late last year.

MCGINNIS: Paula, he had asked for he and his brother, his wife and two of their friends -- he called Larry Marmie, who was on my staff, and then myself to ask if he could to our ball game when we played Seattle late in the year.

I took that request to Mr. Bidwill, who is the owner of the Cardinals. He facilitated that, made it happen, made it work. Pat was able to stay with his wife, his brother, his friends in our team hotel. But he didn't want it to be about himself. I asked him several times if he would like to address the team, and he really didn't want to. He finally acquiesced and came down to the team dinner.

And immediately upon him entering that team dinner, Paula, you could just -- you could see those players that had been with him, of course, they were elated. They didn't know he was coming, just their reaction to him. But the younger players who didn't know him but knew of him, you could sense a command of respect because of what they heard about him and then, of course, of what he was doing.

And then we were able to spend several hours in the room with Coach Marmie myself and those young people. And it was, for me, to sit -- I was sitting back and taking it all in. Those are the memories that I'm taking right now with me and reflecting back upon it. What a live, vibrant room that was with those young people.

ZAHN: And a man whose character never allowed it to be about him.

MCGINNIS: Absolutely.

ZAHN: That's interesting to note about to our viewers. This was a man who refused to even do interviews when he enlisted. MCGINNIS: Paula, when he came to me with his decision when I was the head coach and that this was what he's decided to do, he was very emphatic about that, that he did not want to be singled out, did not want to considered anything special, and felt like that there were thousands of young men and women across the country that were making this choice. And he didn't want to be singled out a bit.

And, of course, in my conversations with him, Paula, I was trying to tell him, this is going to be attention-gathering. And, you know, we're going to have to deal with this. And he said, coach, I'm not going to deal with it. You deal with it and you do it for me.

And I've always honored that request, because it was -- to me, it was very, very important to him and he felt very deeply about it.

ZAHN: What a measure of a man.

Coach McGinnis, thank you for sharing your memories of him tonight.

MCGINNIS: Paula, thank you very much for having me. It's my pleasure.

ZAHN: Also among those paying tribute to Tillman was Senator John McCain of Arizona. McCain, of course, was a prisoner of war in Vietnam and knows about the high cost of sacrificing for freedom.

He joined me from Tucson.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

ZAHN: Senator McCain, thank you very much for joining us tonight.

As we celebrate the life of a great American hero, what is the lesson that Pat Tillman taught all Americans?

SEN. JOHN MCCAIN (R), ARIZONA: I think Pat Tillman taught all Americans that there's no nobler cause than to sacrifice for your country and for freedom. And that's what he was doing. And he did it without fanfare, without press releases and certainly a significant financial and lifestyle difference than he could have enjoyed.

ZAHN: I know this is a young man you watched win games at Arizona State and you also watched him once he played pro ball with the Arizona Cardinals. What was your personal reaction when you heard this news?

MCCAIN: I was heartbroken. The loss of every young American is a tragedy, but Pat epitomized so much to us here in Arizona.

He was underweight and no one ever thought he would play at Arizona State. He played magnificently. No one thought he'd make it with the pros. And then after 9/11, when he -- after he was married, he decided that he wanted to serve his country. He and his brother joined up. He never gave a press conference, Paula. He never publicized or exploited in any way his service. He just believed that it was his duty to serve his country and fight this war and this long struggle that we're in.

ZAHN: I know you've talked a little bit about how inspiring his patriotism should be to all of us, but you've also said that you believe this delivers a heavy blow to the nation's morale. Share some of those feelings with us tonight.

MCCAIN: It always hurts our morale when we lose one of our most wonderful and fine young Americans.

And to many of us, not just in leadership, but our average citizen here in the state of Arizona, he symbolized so much. He symbolized excellence, where he gave us so much enjoyment and excitement on the playing field. And then we were startled and then struck in admiration when he decided he and his brother, Kevin, to join the Army after 9/11.

And it is a heavy blow for us when we think about his wife and his brother and his hundreds of thousands, if not millions, of fans who loved and admired Pat.

ZAHN: Sir, you just talked a little bit about how shaken Pat Tillman was by the events of 9/11. What does it symbolize to you that he likely lost his life to al Qaeda fighters?

MCCAIN: I believe that history and future generations of Americans will say that Pat Tillman epitomized the Americans who heard his country's call after 9/11, who -- the classic citizen soldier who left a far more comfortable and much more financially remunerative existence in order to go out and serve his country and fight and try to destroy those who we know are attempting to destroy us.

ZAHN: What does it tell us about this ongoing war on terror?

MCCAIN: It tells us that we're in a long, hard struggle both in Iraq and in Afghanistan and in other parts of the world. And it's going to require probably more of our most precious asset. And that's our young American blood.

And that is something that I think we need to face up to. And, yet, we can look with great pride that we live in a country that produces the Pat Tillmans, who are unique in all the world.

ZAHN: Well, we thank you, Senator, for sharing some of your thoughts with us on this very sad night.

MCCAIN: Thank you, Paula.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

ZAHN: These pictures were taken so their sacrifice would never be forgotten. So why did the Pentagon insist on keeping them from the public?

And the pilot of this Black Hawk helicopter shot down in Somalia, we'll ask him about his sacrifice as a POW and about the war in Iraq.

And a hostile welcome home for Japanese who were held hostage in Iraq. Instead of yellow ribbons, they were bowing in shame.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

ZAHN: Americans have been waiting for any news of Army Reservist Keith Matthew Maupin. He is the private being held captive by militants in Iraq.

But just over 10 years ago, there was another conflict and another POW that held the nation's attention. In Somalia in the Horn of Africa, a group of courageous soldiers were shot down as their Black Hawk helicopter flew above the city of Mogadishu. It is another story of sacrifice and a story of survival.

Joining us now from Huntsville, Alabama, is Michael Durant. He was the pilot of one of those Black Hawks. He spent 11 days as a captive of hostile forces. He has written a book about the experience called "In the Company of Heroes."

We all feel like we're in the company of a hero this evening.

Welcome, Michael.

MICHAEL DURANT, AUTHOR, "IN THE COMPANY OF HEROES": Thank you. Good evening.

ZAHN: Let's talk a little bit about the sacrifice Pat Tillman made. A lot of young people wouldn't have given up the glory of that multimillion-dollar contract he could have signed to serve his nation.

What is the impact that his sacrifice you think has on other young people?

DURANT: Well, I agree with Senator McCain. It certainly has a demoralizing effect in the short term, but I think in the long term we'll look at Pat as truly a source of inspiration.

You know, everybody, every soldier, airman and Marine that's in Iraq or fighting in the war on terrorism in Afghanistan as well has made a sacrifice. But it would be hard to find anyone who made as great a sacrifice as Pat Tillman. He was truly a great American fighting alongside an army of great Americans.

ZAHN: Let's remind our audience of what you were up against when you were taken basically captive in Mogadishu. What was the hardest part of those 11 days?

DURANT: Well, I think of my family first. And my heart goes out to the family of anyone who's missing or in captivity.

It's the unknown, you know, will he make it out alive or will she make it out alive, or will they not? And for me in captivity, it was not knowing the whereabouts of my comrades. There were six of us at crash site two and I didn't find out what happened to everyone else until I was actually released. I heard some news reports, but not the final word until being released.

And, you know, you hold out hope that somehow, some way your comrades survived. And not knowing is troubling, along with, obviously, the physical challenge and the psychological stress of captivity.

ZAHN: People like John McCain have talked over the years about not knowing what kind of resolve and what strength you have until you're severely tested. But were there points of your captivity where you didn't think you were going to survive?

DURANT: Well, I think so. I think that probably goes through everyone's mind in an experience like that. There's some very dynamic situations where I think your life literally hangs by a thread and choices that you can't anticipate have to be made.

And, hopefully, you've got the right training and you've got your wits about you. And it's certainly an all on you. A lot of it is fate and fortune and those around you, but you do your best and you push on through it and you try to make it through I think a piece at a time. I certainly can't compare 11 days to five years or seven years, but I think while you're in it, not knowing how long it will last, it's truly a struggle that you break into pieces and take it one step at a time, minute by minute, day by day.

ZAHN: A little bit earlier, we were looking at that horrific picture of your face badly bruised. When you see those pictures of yourself, can you even believe that one of the techniques you employed with your captors was a sense of humor at some point?

DURANT: Well, you know, in fact, I look back at it now and it almost seems surreal. It seems like a different life. I live in such a different place now that it's hard to even believe that it was me at times.

But when the dust settles and things slow down, your mind is active and you try to figure out ways to make your situation better. And one of the things that I was doing was try to establish relationships with individuals that had me captive. And I guess I've always had a reputation as always having a sense of humor. And I did make a few jokes from time to time.

And I guess maybe it's a stress reliever, but there were actually times when I chuckled in captivity.

ZAHN: Well, Michael Durant, you tell it all beautifully and powerfully in the book "In the Company of Heroes." Thank you for sharing part of your story with us this evening.

DURANT: Thank you, Paula.

ZAHN: And these former hostages went to Iraq to do some good, but did they receive a hero's welcome when they came home?

And damaging charges that a U.N. program to feed starving Iraqis actually fattened the bank accounts of country -- companies and Saddam Hussein. The man who ran it defends the program.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

ZAHN: And now on to the story of sacrifice without honor.

In addition to those who gave their lives in battle, other risk dangers as journalists covering the war, as humanitarian workers helping suffering civilians. That was the case with three young Japanese held captive and threatened with death by Iraqi militants earlier this month. When they were eventually released and they returned home, they might have expected a warm welcome. Instead, what they got was very different.

Atika Shubert reports from Tokyo.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

ATIKA SHUBERT, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): It was not a warm welcome. The released Japanese hostages landed in their home country blinded by media lights, facing national disapproval, bordering on harassment.

Though none of the hostages would speak to the media, they came off the plane bowing deeply in apology.

(on camera): Local media have pried into their private lives, suggesting that hostages staged their own kidnappings. And letters from the public have labeled them Japan's shame.

(voice-over): Politicians have been more subtle, saying hostages should pay the costs of their own release, including the chartered plane out of Iraq.

JUNICHIRO KOIZUMI, JAPANESE PRIME MINISTER (through translator): I want those who flew into Iraq, ignoring the government's warning, to consider how much effort my staff made working around the clock to solve the problems they caused.

SHUBERT: Why the anger? When this video first flashed across the country, the hostages became the center of a heated debate dividing Japan. Should the country support the U.S. occupation of Iraq? Should Japanese troops be in Iraq at all?

Initially, peace activists paraded pictures of the three aide workers and two journalists as martyrs to the cause. But with freedom, some of the hostages said they wanted to remain working in Iraq, adding fuel to the fire. The public remains evenly divided.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE (through translator): Their intentions were admirable, but they and their families did not handle the situation well. They took the wrong actions and said the wrong things.

SHUBERT: The abduction, it seems, was only part of their ordeal. Coming home has also taken its toll.

Atika Shubert, CNN, Tokyo. (END VIDEOTAPE)

ZAHN: Coming up, pictures of those who lost their lives in battle. Why doesn't the Pentagon want us to see them?

And thousands of historic sites sacred to three religions are in Iraq. You're going to meet a man who made a very dangerous journey to rediscover them.

And then, on Monday, why is Kobe Bryant's accuser afraid to return to her hometown of Eagle, Colorado? We'll have that story for you on Monday.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

ZAHN: As the world debates whether the United Nations should be involved in the new Iraq, a new investigation is now under way into corruption in the oil for food program the U.N. ran for Iraq. Here's a little background. Because Saddam Hussein didn't keep his promises after the Gulf war, the U.N. imposed economic sanctions. It resulted in widespread hardship among ordinary Iraqis. So starting in 1996, Iraq was allowed to sell oil in order to buy food and medicine for its people. Well, since no one trusted Saddam Hussein, the U.N. acted as the middleman.

What has come to light is that Iraq allegedly added extra charges onto the oil it sold. The extra allegedly went to Saddam's regime. Now, at the other end of the line, some businesses were overcharging the U.N. for food and medicine. That extra, they claim, went on to Saddam's regime.

Joining me now, Denis Halliday, who served as the coordinator of the U.N.'s oil for food program in 1997 and 1998. Good to see you, sir.

DENIS HALLIDAY, FORMER DIR., U.N. OIL FOR FOOD PROGRAM: Thank you.

ZAHN: During the two-year period, did you ever see any evidence of kickbacks going to Saddam Hussein?

HALLIDAY: Not directly. Kickbacks, certainly not. What I did witness many times was the shipment of gasoline and oil into Turkey in large quantities, which was approved by the United States and monitored by satellites in response to Turkey's being economically hurt by the sanctions on Iraq -- wide open, daylight. And that, according to some of the newspapers, accounts for some $5 billion in income, which went into the hands of some of the Kurds, but particularly into the family in Baghdad.

ZAHN: Do you think that it became more obvious that that was becoming standard operating procedure after you resigned?

HALLIDAY: I think the kickbacks on sales and the kickbacks on contracts of purchasing seemed to have developed in perhaps, I don't know when, '99, 2000, after I'd long gone. But the early days of exporting oil to Turkey and Jordan was well known by the Security Council, by Washington.

ZAHN: Were you personally ever offered any kickbacks?

HALLIDAY: I was not, no.

ZAHN: Was there any strange way that anybody approached you about trying to increase the shipment of oil to any of these other countries that accepted oil from Iraq?

HALLIDAY: No. The whole oil shipment process was handled by the ministry, by SOMO (ph). They dealt directly outside the United Nations with potential buyers, whether they were Russian, Chinese. They weren't selling to the United States directly, but indirectly to Exxon. They dealt totally differently, separately from what I -- I was there purely for the oil for food itself, overseeing the preparations, the imports and the distribution system. That was my job.

ZAHN: You believe, though, the U.S. was actually aware of some of the corruption in this program, particularly when it came to allies like Turkey and Jordan. What was going on?

HALLIDAY: Oil sales. They felt that Turkey needed compensation for the fact that their economy was damaged, they claim, to the tune of $30 billion by the sanctions on Iraq. A very large trading partner. So the United States justified, I believe, those exports. But they also knew the income was going to Saddam Hussein and the government in Baghdad. The Jordanian deal was actually a protocol, recognized, I believe, by the United Nations because Jordan was solely dependent on Iraq for its oil supply. So that was fairly much aboveboard.

ZAHN: Was there any sense of outrage, though, when it became clear to some of you working on the program that the U.S. allegedly was turning a blind eye, knowing that some of this money was going back to Saddam Hussein?

HALLIDAY: Yes. I mean, it struck me as strange at the time. Not...

ZAHN: Strange? Or...

HALLIDAY: Well...

ZAHN: Can you think of a, you know, harsher word?

HALLIDAY: We're talking about the United States. We're talking about the private sector. The private sector is all about kickbacks, whether it's oil sales or whether it's purchasing. Why would I be surprised? I mean, my concern was the revenue that was legitimately collected and put in the U.N. accounts, the revenue that was legitimately used by the U.N. to meet the contracts negotiated by the government with people all over the world, including United States wheat sales or Brazil or Australia or Vietnam whatever on rice. This was all aboveboard and legitimate. Now, inside those contracts, it now seems, there was a 10 percent here or 50 cents there on the key (ph), though. That is unknown, I think, certainly, to my office, but I think even New York. The Council, the Security Council, you could argue, should have known. I don't think they did necessarily. Now, were they playing games? Well, some of them may have been.

ZAHN: Who's to blame for it?

HALLIDAY: Well, I think we have to look at the member states of the U.N. The U.N. is not Kofi Annan and the team. The U.N. is the people who run the Security Council, particularly the five permanent members. They dominate the sanctions regime. They dominated oil for food. They handled most of these sales. They have to take responsibility. If we find, after this investigation, that some of us inside the secretariat were careless or negligent or even crooked, then we'll have to take our responsibilities.

ZAHN: Does this -- if it ends up that these allegations are true, does this make the U.N. a joke, when it comes to the issue of credibility?

HALLIDAY: Well, a joke is a very strong word. I think if there has been hanky-panky, let's get it out and get it in the open because this is the time when the U.N. would seem to have a new role in Iraq, and this needs to be clarified as quickly as possible.

And I believe an investigation has now been agreed upon. Paul Volcker is going to chair this thing, I believe. The sooner the better. But I don't believe we're going to find a scandal in the secretariat of the U.N. I don't think we'll find U.N. staff, like myself, guilty of taking monies or diverting monies from the people, the children of Iraq, whom, after all, we were killing, sad to say, under the sanctions regime.

ZAHN: Denis Halliday, we're going to leave it there.

For another perspective now we turn to a member of Congress. The United Nations gets roughly a quarter of its money from U.S. taxpayers, so Congress is taking a hard look at the scandal. Representative Christopher Shays of Connecticut is one of those on the congressional committees that are investigating the oil for food program. He joins us from Stamford, Connecticut.

Good of you to join us, sir. First of all, your reaction to some of what Mr. Halliday just charged, that the Security Council should have been aware of some of these activities to go on, and he basically said the United States was aware of some of this money going back to Saddam Hussein. Your reaction?

REP. CHRISTOPHER SHAYS (R), CONNECTICUT: Well, the U.N. was aware. We were, I think, aware, as well. The bottom line is, when you undersell oil for no good reason, you're going to have kickbacks. And when you overpay for commodities -- I mean, Saddam was overpaying for the things he was buying -- there are going to be kickbacks, as well. We're talking about a $10 billion rip-off, probably the biggest amount of fraud ever in the history of the world. And the only issue really is not did it happen, but who is responsible, and what are we going to do about it?

ZAHN: So in your judgment, based on the hearings you've held so far, who is to blame?

SHAYS: Oh, I think a lot of member states are involved. I think a lot of individuals. I mean, one of the exciting things for me is that the Iraqi Governing Council has wanted to get to the bottom of this, and they leaked information to one of the Iraqi papers. I rejoice in that because you have Iraqis who want what's going in Iraq to be an Iraqi revolution, and as feeble as it may seem, they're speaking out and saying, we, the Iraqi people, were ripped off, and we want the world to deal with us and come clean. And the world has to.

ZAHN: You talk about members of the U.N., and based on what you know so far, who were the most egregious abusers of the system? Which countries?

SHAYS: Well, Russia is right at the top of the list. I mean, there was a system where you would set the price of oil, and there's supposed to be three members in that process, and there was only one, the Russians. And when we tried to add more people, they kept vetoing adding the additional people. The Russians are clearly major players.

Now, the United States wasn't the middleman in this, but we bought 44 percent of Iraq oil. And I do agree -- I think it was Denis who was on your program making the point that we knew that Jordan and Turkey was involved, and we did turn the other way a bit because we knew that they had suffered so much from the sanctions that they had to get something out of this, but nothing like the $10 billion we ever imagined.

ZAHN: But weren't U.S. officials supposedly reviewing these contracts?

SHAYS: They were. And I think they were content that the sanctions were still surviving, and I think that was very important to them. So yes, we're going to find out what Americans knew, as well. And we're going to have to get some good answers.

ZAHN: How damaging do you think this could be for the U.N. in the short term and long term?

SHAYS: Well, it is damaging for the U.N., but the real damage would be if they try to cover it up. Paul Volcker is going to do a great job. There is a resolution. Kofi Annan called me up two days ago and said he's going to let this go wherever, you know, the money leads us. And so, if the U.N. cleans this up -- first acknowledges what they did, allows the information to be told and reforms their systems, then I think the U.N. will survive. But if it tries to cover this all up, then it will just be a disgrace.

ZAHN: Congressman Chris Shays, thank you very much for your time. Denis Halliday, thank you for dropping by, as well.

HALLIDAY: Thank you.

ZAHN: Appreciate both of your perspectives.

Coming up: Sites sacred to the Bible and the Quran were hidden for decades by Saddam. Now they're being rediscovered. The amazing lost world of Iraq coming up.

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ZAHN: Our next story is about politics, policy and honoring America's fallen. For years, the Pentagon has had a policy of not allowing the coffins of American war dead to be photographed. It says it's out of respect for the families. But critics say it's really about keeping the fallen soldiers out of the sight of the American public. It's a conflict that even war hero, former prisoner of war and U.S. senator John McCain feels personally.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. JOHN MCCAIN (R), ARIZONA: I, like most Americans, are of two minds. I'm torn between we don't want to invade the privacy of the families and make their sorrow any worse. At the same time, we don't want anything concealed from the American people as to how hard this struggle is and that it will continue to require sacrifice.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ZAHN: So the question is, how do we strike a balance? Ivan Medina lost his twin brother, Irving, in Iraq. He thinks the photos should not be published. He joins us by phone from Hinesville, Georgia.

Thank you very much for joining us tonight, sir. First of all, your reaction to some of the pictures now that have been splashed over front pages of newspapers and have basically been seen around the clock for almost the last 24 hours.

IVAN MEDINA, BROTHER KILLED IN IRAQ: Well, I believe those are personal pictures, not only to the family but to the soldiers who are actually doing this. They -- you know, we honor the soldiers that have been killed. I include honor my brother for it. I used to work with doing a lot with that, and that becomes a personal grieving point for the soldiers and for -- and the fallen comrades that we are there -- having there. So I believe that's a personal picture, and you should not publicize something like that.

ZAHN: Are you offended, then, by these pictures the American public has been exposed to?

MEDINA: I'm torn in between because I understand what people are saying, and we should have that right, but at the same time, it's a private picture between the soldiers, and it's also out of respect for the family. And we should honor that fallen comrade and not make it a political statement for it.

ZAHN: How about the point that Senator John McCain was saying, that you don't want the reality of war to be concealed from the American public?

MEDINA: Well, you know, the families have the right to allow the press to go in and be at the funerals and at the wakes and everything because we did that with my brother. It's a family decision that we took, and that's when the reality can hit American -- the American people. But when they're coming home, I believe that, yes, the families should be there, but those pictures of soldiers taking care of their fallen comrades are personal to those soldiers because they grieve through that, and we honor them with that.

ZAHN: I understand what you're saying. I know a lot of people feel that way. But as reflected in e-mails we've received today and in conversations I've actually had with a couple families members who've also lost some of their own, they truly believe that this is the only way that you can cut through the clinical numbers that are fed to the American public every day. And they say American public does need to understand the cost, and it's only through seeing these horrific pictures that they understand that.

MEDINA: No, I don't believe so. I believe they -- people can understand it with -- like people like myself. I -- you know, I have become where I've talked to many radio stations, many other people, because I'm not for this war. And I think I do a good job. And the cost of the American people -- we have lost a lot of lives out there. But we also want to honor them and not make their return home very publicized because it's something we just need to respect for that fallen soldier and for their the family, too.

ZAHN: Well, Ivan Medina, we appreciate your sharing your point of view when your loss is so fresh. We are very sorry...

MEDINA: Thank you.

ZAHN: ... to hear about your brother.

MEDINA: Thank you.

ZAHN: Good luck to you and your family.

MEDINA: You, too.

ZAHN: And when we come back: from the Garden of Eden to Babylon and beyond. You're about to meet a man who took a very dangerous journey to show Iraq's forgotten treasures to the world.

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ZAHN: During this hour, we've seen many examples of sacrifices for war. Now we're going to meet someone who took a risk for beauty and history, traveling to a part of Iraq completely off limits during the reign of Saddam Hussein. The region known as the cradle of civilization, and it is home of more than 10,000 ancient sites. Lawlessness in Iraq makes it extremely dangerous to visit some of these place, but Bruce Feiler, best-selling author of the book "Abraham: A Journey to the Heart of Three Faiths," and photographer Gwendolyn Katz (ph) took the risk. Their trip is featured in this Sunday's "Parade" magazine.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

BRUCE FEILER, AUTHOR, "ABRAHAM": This is Mesopotamia, the land between the rivers. The Garden of Eden was here, the Bible says. The Tower of Babel was here. The alphabet was first invented here. Writing was first scripted here.

ZAHN (voice-over): Bruce Feiler has traveled all over the world, retracing the Bible, exploring the mountain associated with Noah's Ark, crossing the Red Sea, climbing Mount Sinai. Yet Iraq's cradle of civilization had always been strictly off limits.

FEILER: Basically, they have been largely closed off to the West. One of the things that Saddam did is very interesting because he didn't want to forget these sites. What he wanted to do was to link himself to these sites in Babylon, for example. Saddam reconstructed Babylon as a sort of Six Flags, and 2he carved his initial in Babylon, in Patra (ph), in Nimbra (ph). He carved his own initials thousands and thousands of times over this -- these monuments, to say, I am their heir.

ZAHN (on camera): There are about 10,000 ancient sites in Iraq today. What kind of shape are they, post-Saddam and post-war?

FEILER: I actually spent some time with John Russell, who is the archeologist from Boston who works for the CPA. He's been there a year in Baghdad. He said thousands of sites, each one of which could have rewritten our history books hundreds of times, have simply been destroyed. And so he and I were actually in Babylon at the time, having this conversation, and I said, Well, you know, one of the most famous lines in the Bible is, "By the rivers of Babylon we sat and wept." And he just cut me off. He said, You can't go to these sites and see the destruction and not weep.

ZAHN (voice-over): The journey was treacherous. Feiler and his team flew into Baghdad on a military transport. To avoid shoulder- launched missiles, a corkscrew landing. In an unmarked, unarmored car, they drove through war-torn towns like Nasiriyah and Basra.

(on camera): How dangerous was your whole journey?

FEILER: Well, in addition to the basic problems, which is you've got to have body armor and a helmet and a satellite phone, it's incredibly complicated. You can't go out in the mornings because it's unsafe. You can't go out after 4:00 PM. At 2:00 PM every day, we had to go to our hotel, lock ourselves in and send our guys out to bring us food. You can't go in an SUV because the SUVs are mostly from the military. You can't drive over dead animals because that's where they put the roadside bombs.

ZAHN (voice-over): Yet despite the danger, Feiler was able to see things he and others had only dreamed of.

(on camera): Did you find the Garden of Eden? FEILER: An abject town just north of Basra, where there were just suicide bombings, and basically, alongside those banks is a small garden, OK? It's about the size of an outdoor basketball court. It's got two living olive trees and one dead one, and it's covered in concrete.

ZAHN: No markers...

FEILER: No markers...

ZAHN: ... indicating this is...

(CROSSTALK)

ZAHN: ... the Garden of Eden.

FEILER: In fact, the Garden of Eden actually is not really a big part of Islamic lore. It actually is a biblical identification. And so I think one of the things this is doing is showing the interfaith connections in this part of the world. And we got there, and there were the kids there, and it filled with hope. And then really minutes later, these thugs came, flashed guns, told our guards that they wanted to mug us and take our equipment. And within minutes, we were told it's too unsafe, we got to go, and we were leaving. And to me, it's really in some ways a great metaphor because all across the country, there is no Eden now.

ZAHN: What was the most extraordinary thing you saw, historically?

FEILER: I would say it would be going to Samara. Samara was the oldest -- the first great empire, the oldest civilization. It's right outside Nasiriyah. And this is where Abraham was born. I dreamed of going to this place for years. We got there. It's alongside an air base. And the centerpiece, there's a zigurrat, one of these giant stepped pyramids. Threw off our body armor, climbed to the top. And then we met these soldiers who'd spent a year living at this base alongside this zigurrat, and they said it was very moving to realize that this was the origin of the idea that the faiths come from one man, Abraham.

ZAHN: Did you have an emotional reaction to seeing it?

FEILER: It was deeply emotional for me. I mean, that was the moment I think that I really welled up because I think what the Bible is trying to tell us is that there is this common ancestor and that that ancestor the common father of Jews, Christians and Muslims. And that, of course, is the lesson that we most need today. That's why I took my life in my hand to go.

ZAHN: This trip was a life-long dream for you. How did the reality of what you saw match up to what you dreamed about?

FEILER: Straight across Iraq, there go the Tigris and Euphrates Rivers, and all these sites, the Garden of Eden or Babylon, Ninevah, Nimbra (ph) -- these are stories we read about in the Bible and we learn about in 3rd grade.

So while it was much more dangerous, in many ways, to me, it felt much more like home and much more familiar than other Middle Eastern countries because you do feel like this is my place. I came from this place. And I hope, as the war is going on and even as there is tragedy daily in the news, that we don't lose sight of the fact that not only is this all of our problems to solve now, this is the place that all of us come from. And for me, it was like, oh, I've touched that bedrock, and now I know that there's a part of me that will always be there.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

ZAHN: Bruce Feiler, thank you for the amazing journey. We'll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

ZAHN: A Little bit earlier tonight, we told you about Army Ranger and former pro football player Pat Tillman's death in Afghanistan, and his death focuses our attention on the sacrifices made by all of America's fighting men and women. And in the time we have left, we want to remember and pay tribute to them, as well.

You're looking at some of the names of the U.S. troops who have died within the past seven days in Iraq and Afghanistan. They are only a fraction of the men and women we have lost. The military has not yet released the names of all of those troops killed since Tuesday. But in all, 708 U.S. troops have died in Iraq, 117 gave their lives in Afghanistan. We salute them all.

And we want to thank you so much for joining us tonight. Good night.

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