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Paula Zahn Now

Details Emerge in Iraqi Prisoner Abuse Scandal; Nick Berg Remembered

Aired May 14, 2004 - 20:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


PAULA ZAHN, CNN ANCHOR: And good evening. Welcome. I'm Paula Zahn. Thanks so much for joining us tonight as we wrap up the week here.
The U.S. military today officially changed its policy on prisoner interrogations, all because of the Iraqi prison scandal.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

ZAHN (voice-over): Beatings, humiliations, sadistic laughter. More details emerge about the treatment of Iraqi prisoners.

And another U.S. soldier faces court-martial.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Assaulting detainees, committing indecent acts, adultery, and obstruction of justice.

ZAHN: As Nicholas Berg's family and friends gather for a tearful final farewell, the U.S. government says it is not to blame for his death.

JOHN ASHCROFT, ATTORNEY GENERAL: He refused government offers to advise his family and friends of his status.

ZAHN: The U.S. promises to pay abused Iraqi prisoners. So where's the money for American POWs tortured and beaten in the first Gulf War? I'll be talking with one angry veteran.

And why did American prison guards use sex to humiliate their prisoners? The answer might surprise you.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

ZAHN: All of that ahead tonight, plus some firsts in a new presidential election poll. We're going to take a look at what they could mean for the campaigns. And we're going to meet some service members who may have the most difficult jobs in the military.

First, though, some headlines for you tonight.

Attorney General John Ashcroft says there is no link between Nicholas Berg and terrorists. An e-mail address traced to Berg was used by an alleged terrorist contact, but Ashcroft says there's no evidence Berg even knew him. Berg was executed by terrorists in Iraq.

Today, in Najaf, Iraq, U.S. forces battled supporters of radical Shiite cleric Muqtada al-Sadr, killing more than a dozen fighters. A crowd later gathered outside Sadr's office carrying hardware they say belongs to the United States.

"In Focus" tonight, the Iraqi prison abuse scandal and what it will mean for U.S. efforts to get information from prisoners in Iraq. The Pentagon today, as we mentioned at the top of hour, changed the rules on interrogation tactics.

Let's turn to senior Pentagon correspondent Jamie McIntyre to understand all these changes tonight.

Hi, Jamie.

JAMIE MCINTYRE, CNN MILITARY AFFAIRS CORRESPONDENT: Hi, Paula.

Well, in the wake of the controversy over the mistreatment of Iraqi prisoners, the top U.S. commander in Iraq has ordered a number of aggressive interrogation options banned. They include things like the presence of military working dogs, sleep adjustment, sensory deprivation, and stress positions.

Lieutenant General Ricardo Sanchez stresses that these are options that were technically available to interrogators, but only with his approval, and he says he never approved any of these options. In fact, he says none of the abuse that's seen in the photographs was anything that was on the Pentagon's abuse list. There is one option still available to interrogators with his approval only and that is isolation of prisoners for more than 30 days at a time.

This comes on a day when there are different pictures emerging of what happened at the Abu Ghraib prison and who knew what. One of the accused soldiers who was moving closer to court-martial today, Specialist Charles Graner, says that he was acting at the behest of higher-ups, and that they were well aware of the cooperation between the prison guards and the interrogators and the methods that were being used to soften up prisoners.

But that's being contradicted somewhat by another accused soldier. That is Specialist Jeremy Sivits, who has agreed to plead guilty and testify against the other six. He says that senior enlisted officers, senior enlisted commanders and other officers were unaware of what was going on at the prison. His trial begins next week, and then he will be testifying against some of the others -- Paula.

ZAHN: We will have to keep track of it.

Jamie McIntyre, thank you for setting it straight for us this evening.

Among the soldiers Specialist Sivits identifies as an abuser is Sergeant Javal Davis. Davis faces a half dozen charges, including cruelty and maltreatment and committing indecent acts.

Joining us now is his sister-in-law, Tonenethia Jackson.

Welcome. Good to have you with us tonight. I know this isn't an easy time for you or any member of your family.

TONENETHIA JACKSON, SISTER-IN-LAW OF ACCUSED SOLDIER: No.

ZAHN: Your brother-in-law, Sergeant Davis, is quoted as saying, and he actually said this this morning, that he admitted to -- quote -- "stomping on the fingers and toes of detainees, but never hitting a detainee." What would lead him to even admit to that or even do that?

JACKSON: Basically, he is an honest person.

As far as stepping on someone's toes, policeman, you know, they do far worse things than that, but as far as stepping on their toes, I think that was something light. As far as anything else, I know he wasn't a part of.

ZAHN: He also said -- quote -- "I loosened them up, roughed them up a little, made them scared."

Now, from what Sergeant Davis has told you or your sister-in-law, what would have led him to do that?

JACKSON: Because of his instructions by the intelligence officers. He's a very focused individual.

He's here, you know, to do for his country, so anything that he was instructed to do, that's what he would do, nothing else, nothing less, nothing more. So, as I stated in a previous interview, we were already informed of the things that were going on, and he stated there was a lot of things that were going on that were immoral, and he stated that today in this interview.

ZAHN: And he actually shared some of this information long before this investigation became public.

JACKSON: Exactly.

ZAHN: Let's talk about some of the charges he faces. And I know this makes you cringe every time you hear each one of these charges read.

Conspiracy to maltreat detainees -- maltreating detainees, dereliction of duty, assault, and lying in an official statement. When you hear the collective power of all those charges, what goes through your head? Can he beat this?

JACKSON: I think he will, and I know he will.

He comes from a very -- we are a very religious Christian family. He has a background of Christianity. And he wouldn't do anything immorally to anyone.

(CROSSTALK)

ZAHN: So do you think he's a scapegoat?

JACKSON: Yes, I do. I really do. He has the title of a sergeant, and like I said, he's just instructed to do certain things that, you know, just what he was told, but none of those things, none of those things that you just stated.

ZAHN: How is your sister reacting to these fierce allegations?

JACKSON: Well, she's very upset. And she knows that he's going to get a long road back. He's going to be all right. And we want him to come home so he can come and be with his family. She's very upset, but right now, that's why I'm here, because right now she's in Naval training and she's just trying to stay focused. But she's very upset and she's really here to support him. She's here to support him, and it's going to be all right.

ZAHN: And I know the story has inspired so many different reactions.

JACKSON: Yes.

ZAHN: Has your family been pelted with hate mail?

JACKSON: No, not yet.

(CROSSTALK)

ZAHN: Do you expect that to happen?

JACKSON: Probably. We've been getting a lot of phone calls from reporters and the news. So whatever comes, we're going to be able to handle it, because we're there for him 100 percent.

ZAHN: Well, we appreciate your sharing the story with us tonight. Tonenethia, good of you to drop by.

JACKSON: OK.

ZAHN: Just ahead, mourning a young American executed by Iraqi militants. Friends and family grieve in private as Nicholas Berg is laid to rest, but a lot of questions remain about his death in Iraq. We're going to hear from a friend and a family spokesman.

And this former POW sued Saddam Hussein for torturing him, and he won. So why did the U.S. government stop him from collecting damages? I'll ask him.

ZAHN: And it could be the toughest job in the military, but we're going to show you how these bearers of bad news deliver comfort as well.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

ZAHN: Nicholas Berg was buried this morning at a private ceremony in Pennsylvania. This afternoon, his family and friends gathered for a memorial service.

Security was very tight. People who attended were screened with handheld metal detectors. Nicholas Berg's friend, Bruce Hauser, who has been serving as the Berg family spokesman, was at the service.

He joins us tonight from West Chester, Pennsylvania.

Bruce, thanks so much for being with us on this traumatic day for you.

BRUCE HAUSER, SPOKESMAN FOR BERG FAMILY: Thank you, Paula.

ZAHN: So, Bruce, describe to us what you're comfortable describing to us about the service today.

HAUSER: The service was a very nice service, a lot of family and friends, and at moments very sad and then at moments very joyful.

People were asked to come up and reflect on Nick. His friends did so. Some had sad stories. Some had some very joyful stories. People laughed at times. At times, people cried. I had hoped and do believe that this service will help that family go through another stage where they can actually move on a little, get some relief from all the devastation that they have gone through.

I haven't had a chance to talk to the family this evening. I hope to drop by within the hour, just to encourage them once more before hopefully going to bed tonight. But they're still going to need this community and the prayers from the people all over this country.

ZAHN: We know they obviously are in tremendous pain. Are they bitter about what happened to their son?

HAUSER: I'm quite certain they're bitter.

I'll put myself in their place. I have two children, a son and daughter. And if I were in their shoes under the same circumstances, sure, I would be bitter. I'm sure they want to get to the truth.

ZAHN: And, Bruce, I guess I'm trying to think of everything this family is trying to confront at one time, that is, the whole process of trying to honor their son's legacy at a time when a lot of questions are being raised about what the exact circumstances were surrounding his detention in Iraq.

Can you clear up any of that confusion tonight? Because the U.S. government is still trying to distance itself from any story suggesting that he ever was in U.S. custody.

HAUSER: I have a problem with that.

The community has a problem with that. You have to realize, from what we understand, at one time, Nick Berg was in the hands of the Iraqi police for a short period of time, then supposedly turned over to the American government. I have to believe that, because we all know that the FBI visited the Berg family home.

We have to ask ourselves, why would the FBI have to visit the Berg family home if they never had their son in custody? ZAHN: Well, those are good questions you raise. I wanted to close tonight with something that the attorney general had to say today.

HAUSER: Sure.

ZAHN: Making it clear to the American public that Nick Berg had nothing to do with terrorists, although there seemed to be that chance encounter he had had in Oklahoma with somebody on a bus a while ago, but he did say the Justice Department would work very hard to find his killers. Is the family confident that will happen?

HAUSER: I don't know if the family actually heard that bit of news. But I'll say this, The family will struggle until they know exactly what happened to their son, until the government comes across and at least admits that Nick Berg was in their hands.

I think the family is real troubled at the reports they're hearing that the government is telling everyone that they never had Nick Berg in custody. So I truly believe that, if the government truly comes forward and admits that Nick Berg at one time was in their custody, the family will feel like at least they can put some confidence in the government.

ZAHN: Something that the U.S. government continuing to deny tonight, Bruce, but we obviously want to give our audience both sides of the story tonight.

We appreciate your time in sharing your thoughts about the service today.

HAUSER: Thank you so much, Paula.

ZAHN: Now, most -- our pleasure.

Most media would not play the video of terrorists actually executing Nick Berg. But two San Diego high school teachers allegedly showed it to their classes. Now they are on paid leave. An investigation is under way.

Miguel Marquez reports.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

NICHOLAS BERG, HOSTAGE: Nick Berg. My father's name is Michael.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MIGUEL MARQUEZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): It is the video and the act that shocked the nation, an American in Iraq beheaded. In at least two San Diego area high schools, gory photos, video and audio of the beheading were heard and seen by scores of students. Parents were shocked just to hear about it. UNIDENTIFIED MALE: When a child -- a teacher projects this and shows this horrific scene to a child, that's abuse. It puts something in their minds. How do you get it out of their mind?

MARQUEZ: A spokeswoman for Grossmont Union High School District says video of the beheading was brought up on the Internet by a student at El Capitan High School. The problem, says the school, the teacher may have been aware that students were watching the video and allegedly allowed it to continue playing.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

ZAHN: Well, you are not going crazy. We apologize for that tape kind of falling apart there on the air. We'll try to get the rest of that report to you a little bit later on this evening. But the bottom line is that these teachers are out on paid leave, as San Diego launches an investigation into the circumstances surrounding these kids actually seeing this video in the classroom.

Now, after this week's events, a significant shift in the polls that is not good news for the president or his policies, as the neck- and-neck race with John Kerry changes. We have got the latest numbers just out today.

And we're going to get an exclusive and chilling new story of life behind bars at Abu Ghraib prison. We're also going to look at why sexual humiliation is worse than torture to many people in the Muslim world.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

ZAHN: For President Bush, the week is ending with another unpleasant poll. The CNN/"TIME" survey out today has Democrat John Kerry at 49 percent, leading the president by five points.

Joining us now from Washington to talk about the poll results and more, CROSSFIRE co-hosts Paul Begala and Robert Novak.

Good to see you, gentlemen. Welcome.

ROBERT NOVAK, CO-HOST, "CROSSFIRE": Thank you.

(CROSSTALK)

ZAHN: So, Bob, let's take a loot at another part of that poll, showing that the approval rating is down to 46 percent. That's similar to the results of other recent opinion surveys. And according to "The New York Times," even the president's advisers concede he's having a rough time. How many political peril is he in, Bob?

NOVAK: I don't think it's any different than it was five weeks ago. He's had a lot of bad news, so there's the little people who can't make up their mind whether they want Pepsi or Coke have switched over to Kerry.

But it really doesn't make that much difference. One of the people in the Kerry campaign says this is a 47-47 race. It switches around. And we've got many weeks to go. Even the CNN/"TIME" poll, Paula, it depends on what you take out of it. For example, it says that -- we said on CROSSFIRE today, should Rumsfeld resign? No. Should the U.S. release additional prisoner photos? No. Can the U.S. win in Iraq? Yes. Will they win? Yes.

How are things going in the U.S. today? Well, 58 percent. So the American people are not monolithic. They're divided, and they have a mixed view of what's happening in the world.

ZAHN: Well, Paul, what do you make of some of the statistics Bob just cited? It is easy sometimes to take a poll result out and have it misrepresent the totality of the poll.

PAUL BEGALA, CO-HOST, "CROSSFIRE": Right.

Well, the thing to do is look at a time series. Look at the questions over time. A year ago this month, for example, the president's approval on the war on terrorism was something on the order of 74 to 27 approve. Today, it's 46 approve and 47 disapprove. Now, that's a meltdown. It's a collapse.

This is a president who's now -- they trust John Kerry more to win the war in Iraq. They trust John Kerry more by a large margin on the economy and on health care. This is just a disaster for President Bush. And the problem is, if I'm Karl Rove right now -- and I like Karl -- he's a friend of mine -- but he is about as nervous as a porcupine in a balloon factory, because his candidate's future is not under his control. The president's policies in Iraq have set in motion things he can't control.

(CROSSTALK)

ZAHN: But, Paul, you would have to concede it's not like John Kerry has benefited all that much, as the president's numbers go down.

BEGALA: No.

But he's hasn't picked his running mate. He hasn't had his convention. He hasn't had a debate. It's a two-step. Now, I'm from Texas. And I see everything maybe like a Texas two-step dance. And when an incumbent stands for reelection, four-fifths of the election has nothing to do about the challenger. It's all about, hey, Ethel, we got a president. Should we keep him or should we put the job up for bid?

When I worked for President Clinton, '96, the job was not up for bid. Neither was it for Ronald Reagan. But for George Bush, the job is very up for bid. Right now, we want to get rid of President Bush. John Kerry needs to be a plausible, credible alternative. I think he can more than clear that bar. But that's all that he's got to do to win the thing. It's President Bush who carries the onus for his reelection, as every incumbent must.

NOVAK: Paula, the reason that the job rating -- I mean, this is simplistic, but it's true. It has nothing to do with Bush. But the war news is bad. This is a very difficult war.

If the war news gets better, they'll have more confidence in him. It's as simple as that. President Roosevelt's rating was terrible during the first two years of World War II, because we were doing badly. The American people are not military strategists, but they know when things are not going well. And they're not going well in Iraq.

ZAHN: I know you're a man, Bob, who appreciates history, but the head of the Gallup Poll is saying today that in the 50 years that they've been doing polling, that no president has won reelection if they were at less than 50 percent at this stage of the game.

NOVAK: There's always a first time. There's also no president has ever lost reelection if the economy is on the upswing and he doesn't have a fight for the nomination.

So I could make all these silly little things that -- but that isn't -- these historical precedents and these historical patterns are meaningless. What's important is what 7 percent of the voters in about 15 or 16 states do. And this is going to be a very personal decision on their part. And I agree with Paul to this extent -- he doesn't like it when I agree with him, but I will -- that it will have a lot to do on how the war is going in Iraq.

ZAHN: I hate to cut it off here, but I'm sure you want to sail into your weekend now. Thank you for both of your perspectives. Appreciate you joining us tonight.

And when we come back, hundreds of innocent Iraqis are set free from Abu Ghraib prison. We're going to have the latest on that in a live report from Baghdad.

And it is the most heartbreaking assignment in the military. Meet the officers who deliver the news no one ever wants to hear.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

ZAHN: Back to some of the headlines you need to know right now.

An Israeli helicopter fired rockets into Gaza City tonight. The target reportedly was a building used by an Islamic Jihad official. The militant group says he was not there.

There was a huge anti-U.S. protest in Cuba today. By the hundreds of thousands, Cubans marched to show anger with President Bush, who has tightened the U.S. economic embargo.

The U.S. Supreme Court is staying out of the Massachusetts gay marriage controversy. Without comment today, the court turned down a request to block Massachusetts from legalizing same-sex marriages. That happens on Monday.

And in Denmark, a celebration. Crown Prince Frederik married Australian Mary Donaldson. She's a commoner. They met in a Sydney bar during the 2000 Olympic Games. Well, today, the U.S. military released some Iraqi detainees from the infamous Abu Ghraib prison. Some 293 of them are now free. It is the largest prisoner release since abuse photos surfaced several weeks ago. It comes as U.S. forces in Najaf continue to fight supporters of radical cleric Muqtada al-Sadr.

Ben Wedeman joins us now live from Baghdad with all of the details.

Good evening, Ben.

BEN WEDEMAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes. Good evening, Paula. Well, talks about a negotiated settlement to the standoff in Najaf were replaced Friday by renewed clashes between U.S. forces and members of Muqtada Sadr's so-called Mehdi Army.

Now, U.S. forces exchanged fire with militiamen in Najaf's cemetery, which is considered sacred ground by Shi'ites, while Arabic satellite new networks carried footage of a Sadr aide pointing out battle damage to the golden dome of the Imam Ali mosque, which is, of course, the city's host holy shrine.

American spokesmen in Baghdad, however, say that their forces have not fired in the direction of that mosque, and if anything, the damage was probably caused by members of the Mehdi Army itself.

Now, there are conflicting information about the death toll in Najaf. The coalition says that they've killed somewhere around 10 members of the Mehdi Army, but hospital sources tell CNN -- hospital sources in Najaf -- that two militiamen were killed, along with six civilians.

Now, meanwhile, here in Baghdad on Friday morning, around 300 prisoners were released from the Abu Ghraib prison outside Baghdad. Hundreds of people had assembled outside that prison after hearing rumors that there would be a release. Now, American officials, of course, are trying to cut down -- rather, reduce the population of prisoners at Abu Ghraib somewhere to between 1,500 to 2,000 from an original of about 3,800. And of course, 500 more prisoners, we're told, will be released next Friday -- Paula.

ZAHN: Ben Wedeman, thanks for the update. Appreciate it.

Meanwhile, the Bush administration says it wants to compensate abused Iraqi prisoners, but some former Gulf war POWs don't think that's fair. That's because the administration has opposed compensation for Americans who were held captive and tortured during Saddam Hussein's regime. The veterans believe both sets of prisoners should get funds.

Jeff Fox is a former Gulf war POW who, along with 16 other veterans, originally won a billion-dollar claim against the Iraqi government. But the Justice Department appealed the award, saying the money is need to rebuild Iraq. Jeff Fox joins us now from Surfside Beach, South Carolina. Thank you very much for being with us tonight, Jeff. JEFF FOX, FORMER GULF WAR POW: Thanks. Thanks, Paula.

ZAHN: So were you surprised when you heard Secretary Rumsfeld say that these Iraqi prisoners were entitled to compensation from the U.S. government?

FOX: I will admit, yes, it was a bit of a surprise to hear them actually saying that they will be compensated.

ZAHN: Was it disheartening to you?

FOX: It just -- it just came as a surprise. It was just a little confusing, quite frankly.

ZAHN: And explain to our audience tonight why it was so confusing, given this long fight that you have been involved with, with the U.S. government.

FOX: Well, Paula, Congress passed a law in 1996 which authorized us to sue terrorist nations who mistreat Americans and torture them. We had a lawsuit, took it to court. Based upon that law, a judge made a decision in our favor. The awards that we were given were to be taken from Iraqi frozen funds. It was pretty straightforward, but the Bush administration then released those funds to rebuild Iraq.

ZAHN: Let me read for you tonight a statement from the White House spokesman, Scott McClellan, about this very specific issue. And he said this a little bit earlier this week. Quote, "It was determined by Congress and the administration that those assets were no longer assets of Iraq, but they were resources required for the urgent national security needs of rebuilding Iraq. But again, there is simply no amount of compensation that could ever truly compensate these brave men and women."

Is the last part of that statement true?

FOX: I would say yes. I mean, we almost lost our lives and were tortured and beaten. But I still don't understand how, rather than give us the money that we were awarded, they put a priority on sending that back to Iraq.

ZAHN: Down the road, do you think you have any other legal remedy here?

FOX: Well, it's still in court and we're still waiting for the final decision -- or a decision from the appellate court in Washington, D.C. And we have tried to negotiate with the administration, to see if we can come up with some kind of plan that would satisfy everyone, but apparently, they won't do that, either.

ZAHN: And I know, Jeff, from the very beginning, you wanted everybody to know this really is not about this money, this is about what you endured as a POW. In closing tonight, why don't you share with our audience some of what you were subjected to when you were held as a POW. FOX: OK. In the 15 days that I was held, I lost 23 pounds. You were fed once a day. You were handcuffed and blindfolded whenever you were taken anywhere. I was beaten almost daily. On one occasion, my right eardrum was broken. On one occasion during an interrogation, I was told if I did not answer the specific question that I would be shot. And they had a gun placed at my right ear, and it was actually shot near my right ear. On two occasions, they completely stripped me naked and checked to see if I was circumcised. On the night of the 23rd of February, we were in the Ba'ath Party headquarters and were attacked by coalition forces, and we almost lost our lives there. And that's about it.

ZAHN: I know that you have spent many painful years reliving that, and it's taken you a while to say all of that out loud. It strikes me, though, that you don't sound like a bitter man. You just seem let down by this very long battle you've had with the U.S. government.

FOX: You're right. I mean, this -- I'm enjoying my life here. This is the greatest country. And it just is frustrating to see an administration place foreign citizens ahead of servicemen and women who almost lost their life.

ZAHN: Well, we appreciate your sharing your painful story with us tonight. Jeff Fox, thank you.

FOX: Thank you.

ZAHN: And we want to remind all of you that CNN did contact the Justice Department about this matter and was told that the department does not comment on ongoing cases.

Coming up next, the role of sexual humiliation in the prison abuse scandal. Why did soldiers choose to punish Iraqi prisoners by stripping them and putting them in sexually explicit positions? Some surprising answers just ahead.

And for every death on the battlefield, a painful knock on the front door -- a look at one of the saddest duties in the military.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

ZAHN: The pictures we've seen of Iraqi prisoners humiliated sexually carry an especially painful weight in the Muslim world. Joining us now to explain us what those images mean to Muslims, Anie Kalayjian, a professor of psychology at Fordham University and the author of "Disaster and Mass Trauma." And in Los Angeles tonight, Maryam Qudrat Aseel, an expert on Muslim culture and author of "Torn Between Two Cultures: An Afghan-American Woman Speaks Out." We have dueling books this evening! Welcome to both of you.

Maryam, I want to start with you this evening. First of all, why is this sexual activity so degrading to Muslims?

MARYAM QUDRAT ASEEL, EXPERT ON MUSLIM CULTURE: Well, one thing we have to understand is there's a clear distinction and separation in the Islamic cultural context between private worlds and public worlds. And sexual behavior is a very sensitive and private matter, and so sexual abuse really strikes at the very heart of the core Muslim belief systems. And Muslims are willing to die for and value their belief systems above their life preservation.

ZAHN: One of the soldiers, Maryam, who was featured prominently in the photos is Lynndie England. And we're going to put up the picture right now for our audience to remember. Now, these are images of her smiling and pointing at naked Iraqi prisoners. Can you tell us why these pictures particularly upsetting to Muslims?

ASEEL: Well, it's particularly upsetting in the sense that you have a military personnel who is charged with upholding the American democratic ideals, and who is a military official, in a position where they're subjecting an Iraqi prisoner, who is supposed to be, in a certain sense, seeking refuge and confidence in Americans there in that situation. So that's the first problem.

Now, this points to the fact that the six individuals charged in this case are actually -- or actually, seven individuals charged, six reprimanded -- is not satisfying. This is not an isolated incident. According to Donald Rumsfeld, this is just the tip of the iceberg, and there are many similar situations and cases.

ZAHN: All right...

ASEEL: And so it points to a systemic change that's needed.

ZAHN: Let's bring Anie into the discussion now. We've heard a lot of different explanations about what potentially could lead to this kind of abuse. But what a lot of us are wondering tonight -- we understand beatings, perhaps, that have been done in prisons, but why is this so sexually explicit?

ANIE KALAYJIAN, PSYCHOLOGY PROFESSOR, FORDHAM UNIVERSITY: Well, sexual abuse is the next level. After physical abuse is usually the sexual abuse, where it gets to the inner core, inner -- inner being. You can't get any closer to one except sex. And in power -- not in power -- power over and abuse, and (UNINTELLIGIBLE) in such a way that would bring shame to the rest of the culture. That's another thing, not only the family, the individual, but the rest of the community, the rest of the Islamic world.

ZAHN: And Maryam was talking about the devastating impact this has on a Muslim's psyche. Help us understand both the long-term -- or the short-term effects and the long-term effects.

KALAYJIAN: Well, the short-term effects is, of course, the combat trauma. It's, of course, both. I think, the reason that soldiers are doing these atrocities is because they are terrified, they are traumatized, they are misguided, filled with hatred, and sent there with no guidance, support or group therapy or any kind of counseling. I'm presuming.

But on top of that, for the victims, this would be generational. This trauma will go -- impact generation into the next generations. I have my mother having flashbacks because she remembered the sexual abuses that her grandparents had to undergo in 1915, when the Ottoman Turks were killing the Armenians. My clients that are Vietnam veterans can't sleep and they're having flashbacks because they remember all this. It was happening in Vietnam. It was happening in World War II.

ZAHN: Sure.

KALAYJIAN: It was -- it's -- the more the same is continuing, I'm very sad to say this.

ZAHN: Anie and Maryam, thank you for giving us a better understanding of what potentially could have led to all of this. Appreciate both of your perspectives tonight.

And coming up next, we're going to turn to families who pay the ultimate price in war and those who deliver the bad news on their doorstep. What does it do -- or what does it take to do this job?

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No matter how many times you do it, you don't get used to it.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ZAHN: Teaching soldiers the painful task of hurting hearts and helping to comfort them, as well, coming up.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

ZAHN: Now an exclusive interview with an Iraqi man who says he was a victim of abuse by Americans at Abu Ghraib. The man, now in the U.S., says he was locked up as a suspected terrorist in Iraq last fall. Jason Bellini has interviewed him and joins us from Dearborn, Michigan, just outside of Detroit. Hi, Jason.

JASON BELLINI, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Paula -- hi, Paula. His name is Mr. Saleh. He only wants to go by that last name. He doesn't want to be identified by his first name. He wouldn't also allow us to show his face. But he has an absolutely remarkable story.

He was actually in Abu Ghraib prison during Saddam Hussein's regime in the early '80s. He says he was tortured there. After that, he ended up leaving the country. He left after the first Gulf war, when he said that Saddam Hussein had a price on his head. He moved to Sweden. And then after this last Gulf war, he entered Iraq, he drove his Mercedes there, hoping to start a business and help in the rebuilding of Iraq.

Now, he was captured along the way by coalition forces and ended up in Abu Ghraib prison. Now, the coalition has confirmed for us that he was in Abu Ghraib prison. His account thereof, what happened inside that prison, we have not been able to independently verify, but here's his story.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

MR. SALEH, FORMER ABU GHRAIB DETAINEE (through translator): What happened cannot be said or described. The worst of things took place. It was very difficult. I still recall those voices at night of Iraqi women. During the time of Saddam, that happened. But under the American forces, that was unexpected and it hurts. No human should accept what happened. We didn't believe what would happen. These people do not represent America. These are only a few Americans looking down at Iraqis.

BELLINI: What happened to you inside the prison?

MR. SALEH (through translator): Let's see. At the beginning, I was in a situation, my hands were tied behind my back like this, in front of a table, and they were interrogating me. And they kept saying, You're a liar, you're not Swedish. I told them I am Swedish. He said, OK. So he put his feet right on my neck. I had a hood over my head, so I didn't know who was interrogating me.

After that, they untied my hands. They asked me to take my clothes off. So I took my clothes off. They pulled me by my hair, like this, and pushed me to the floor. They got me up and pushed me against the wall. Then I was thrown on the floor again. Anyway, and they kept doing this again and again every five minutes. They were all Americans. Some were in civilian clothes, others in military clothes, but there were more civilians than military, and the civilians were the ones who were giving orders to the soldiers. They put a leash around my neck, a very tough one, and they pulled me across the hall, like that, a long distance.

BELLINI: All that you said that went through at Abu Ghraib prison, why would you come to the United States just a few months after your release?

MR. SALEH (through translator): Because I promised the prisoners that I have to go to the United States and bring this to the attention of Americans. And I tell the U.S. administration and the U.S. Congress we don't deserve all this.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BELLINI: Paula, he's also here seeking compensation for the suffering he says he went through in Abu Ghraib prison. He also wants to get back his life's savings, which was taken from him when he was arrested, life's savings of $79,000, which he was planning to use to start an auto repair business. He also wants to have his Mercedes returned to him, which he estimates in value at $3,000 -- Paula.

ZAHN: So what was the exact period of time that he was held at Abu Ghraib prison?

BELLINI: He was in Abu Ghraib prison from October 4 through December 25. And during that time -- he says that he was there during the time of these pictures that we're seeing on TV now, that he recognized one person -- at least one person in the photos, some of the prisoners, as well. And he says that his experience is very much like theirs.

Now, Paula, he didn't want to go into all of the details. He said they were too humiliating for him to recount. His lawyer, however, in a document that they have sent to the U.S. government, to the Pentagon, asking for compensation, lays them all out, and there are some very gory details -- Paula.

ZAHN: All right, Jason, but here's the part of the story that I don't get, is why was he considered a suspected terrorist when he was taken in? Have you been able to confirm why he was pulled off the street, and whether, in fact, those suspicions were accurate?

BELLINI: Well, it was likely a misunderstanding. You know, we haven't been able to hear from the coalition itself why he was picked up. He suspects it's because he had a Swedish passport, and they thought that he was there as perhaps a foreign fighter. He also had all this money on him. And so they were wondering what his story was and somehow got lost in the shuffle. Again, this is his theory, not verified by the coalition. We don't know, in this situation, why he and so many others have ended up in the prison system in Iraq -- Paula.

ZAHN: Jason Bellini, thanks so much. Fascinating story.

We're going to return now to a story we started to bring you earlier, until some technical problems arose. Two San Diego-area high school teachers are under investigation tonight for allegedly showing their classes the entire video of terrorists beheading American Nick Berg. Miguel Marquez has that story.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

MIGUEL MARQUEZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): It is the video and the act that shocked the nation, an American in Iraq beheaded. And in at least two San Diege-area high schools, gory photos, video and audio of the beheading were heard and seen by scores of students. Parents were shocked just to hear about it.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: When a child -- a teacher projects this and shows this horrific scene to a child, that's abuse. It puts something in their mind. How do you get it out of the mind?

MARQUEZ: A spokeswoman for Grossmont Union high school district says the video of the beheading was brought up on the Internet by a student at the El Capitain High School. The problem, says the school, the teacher may have been aware that students were watching the video and allegedly allowed it to continue playing.

RICK ROBERTS, KFMB RADIO: Why did your daughter file the complaint?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: She was distraught by a video that was in the classroom.

MARQUEZ: That prompted an angry protest by a parent -- not to the school district, but to a local radio station. ROBERTS: Most of us in the media have seen the video. I don't want to see it a second time. And I don't think a classroom is the proper place to do this.

MARQUEZ: As the school district began to look into the complaint, investigators say that another teacher at another high school allegedly played the audio recording of Nicholas Berg's last moments and showed a photo of his severed head to four classes of 30 students each.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We certainly are going to explain to parents that that is not acceptable, that it's not the policy of the district.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

MARQUEZ: Now, CNN has tried to contact the teachers and the teachers' union, seeking their side of the story. The union will only say that it is in discussions with the school district about the matter. A spokeswoman for the school district says that the district strives to keep as open an academic environment as possible. She also says an investigation is under way. Statements from students and teachers will be taken, and the school board may discuss the matter when it meets on May 20. For now, both teachers are on paid suspension -- Paula.

ZAHN: Keep us posted. Miguel Marquez, thanks.

As of today, 781 American troops have died in Iraq since the war began. Each death means a family will get a knock on the door -- "the call," as it's known in the military. Thelma Gutierrez takes a look at those officers assigned to deliver the most painful message a family can get.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: On behalf of the Marine Corps, I regret to inform you that your husband was killed in action.

THELMA GUTIERREZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): They're words no military family wants to hear, delivered by an officer no family wants to see.

LT. JOHN KENNY, U.S. NAVY: Somebody's walking up to the door in their dress uniforms, that something tragic has happened.

GUTIERREZ: But it is an officer's duty. Lieutenant Colonel Russell Pharris remembers the visit he made.

LT. COL. RUSSELL PHARRIS, USMC: Real early AM, morning. The family's sleeping. Woke them up, and then went ahead and notified them of what had happened.

KENNY: You didn't get a chance to even breathe, in a sense, because it was one right after another.

GUTIERREZ: Lieutenant John Kenny made seven visits in one month. (on camera): Did you know any of these people?

KENNY: I knew every one of them.

CMDR. FRANK HOLLEY, U.S. NAVY: If you do get assigned, it's probably going to be one of the most difficult things you have to do in your career.

GUTIERREZ (voice-over): These are the Casualty Assistance Calls Officers, or CACOs, in training at the Marine Corps air station in Miramar, California.

INSTRUCTOR: This is, for military members, the absolute most traumatic, worst information, because you're there to inform them of a death or a very serious injury.

GUTIERREZ: It's the military's way of caring for their own. On this day, 75 Marines are taught what to say.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Ma'am, sir, I have some very important information to tell you.

GUTIERREZ: They're taught what not to say.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Do not say they've passed away. Do not say they're no longer with us. Those terms gives them some false hope that they are not dead.

GUTIERREZ: And they're taught to expect the unexpected.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You have to think on your feet and observe, and in some instances, duck, step back from the door so you don't get hit in the face with the door as they slam it in your face.

GUTIERREZ: The CACO not only delivers the news, they will help with the funeral arrangements, and later the complicated life decisions that have to be made.

HOLLEY: Once there were telegrams, and now we have really concerned, compassionate care, because we extend that to our families because, you know, should something ever happen to me, I mean, I would want that extended to my wife and family, as well.

GUTIERREZ: The students role-play.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: He was killed in a mortar round attack.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: How -- where is he? When can I see him?

HOLLEY: I don't care how many times you've done this, you go up there, your knees are shaking. You get a queasiness in the pit of your stomach because you're going to deliver some really tough news.

GUTIERREZ: The students know, when this class is over, they may soon get the call to step in as a CACO.

KENNY: It's one of those things that when you're trained, you just pray that you never have to do it.

GUTIERREZ: Thelma Gutierrez, CNN, Miramar, California.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

ZAHN: Powerful medicine. We'll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

ZAHN: That's it for all of us tonight. Thank you for wrapping up the week here with us this evening. We appreciate it. We hope you'll be with us same time, same place, on Monday night. "LARRY KING LIVE" is next. We hope you have a real good weekend. Again, hope to see you at the beginning of the week.

TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com


Aired May 14, 2004 - 20:00   ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
PAULA ZAHN, CNN ANCHOR: And good evening. Welcome. I'm Paula Zahn. Thanks so much for joining us tonight as we wrap up the week here.
The U.S. military today officially changed its policy on prisoner interrogations, all because of the Iraqi prison scandal.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

ZAHN (voice-over): Beatings, humiliations, sadistic laughter. More details emerge about the treatment of Iraqi prisoners.

And another U.S. soldier faces court-martial.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Assaulting detainees, committing indecent acts, adultery, and obstruction of justice.

ZAHN: As Nicholas Berg's family and friends gather for a tearful final farewell, the U.S. government says it is not to blame for his death.

JOHN ASHCROFT, ATTORNEY GENERAL: He refused government offers to advise his family and friends of his status.

ZAHN: The U.S. promises to pay abused Iraqi prisoners. So where's the money for American POWs tortured and beaten in the first Gulf War? I'll be talking with one angry veteran.

And why did American prison guards use sex to humiliate their prisoners? The answer might surprise you.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

ZAHN: All of that ahead tonight, plus some firsts in a new presidential election poll. We're going to take a look at what they could mean for the campaigns. And we're going to meet some service members who may have the most difficult jobs in the military.

First, though, some headlines for you tonight.

Attorney General John Ashcroft says there is no link between Nicholas Berg and terrorists. An e-mail address traced to Berg was used by an alleged terrorist contact, but Ashcroft says there's no evidence Berg even knew him. Berg was executed by terrorists in Iraq.

Today, in Najaf, Iraq, U.S. forces battled supporters of radical Shiite cleric Muqtada al-Sadr, killing more than a dozen fighters. A crowd later gathered outside Sadr's office carrying hardware they say belongs to the United States.

"In Focus" tonight, the Iraqi prison abuse scandal and what it will mean for U.S. efforts to get information from prisoners in Iraq. The Pentagon today, as we mentioned at the top of hour, changed the rules on interrogation tactics.

Let's turn to senior Pentagon correspondent Jamie McIntyre to understand all these changes tonight.

Hi, Jamie.

JAMIE MCINTYRE, CNN MILITARY AFFAIRS CORRESPONDENT: Hi, Paula.

Well, in the wake of the controversy over the mistreatment of Iraqi prisoners, the top U.S. commander in Iraq has ordered a number of aggressive interrogation options banned. They include things like the presence of military working dogs, sleep adjustment, sensory deprivation, and stress positions.

Lieutenant General Ricardo Sanchez stresses that these are options that were technically available to interrogators, but only with his approval, and he says he never approved any of these options. In fact, he says none of the abuse that's seen in the photographs was anything that was on the Pentagon's abuse list. There is one option still available to interrogators with his approval only and that is isolation of prisoners for more than 30 days at a time.

This comes on a day when there are different pictures emerging of what happened at the Abu Ghraib prison and who knew what. One of the accused soldiers who was moving closer to court-martial today, Specialist Charles Graner, says that he was acting at the behest of higher-ups, and that they were well aware of the cooperation between the prison guards and the interrogators and the methods that were being used to soften up prisoners.

But that's being contradicted somewhat by another accused soldier. That is Specialist Jeremy Sivits, who has agreed to plead guilty and testify against the other six. He says that senior enlisted officers, senior enlisted commanders and other officers were unaware of what was going on at the prison. His trial begins next week, and then he will be testifying against some of the others -- Paula.

ZAHN: We will have to keep track of it.

Jamie McIntyre, thank you for setting it straight for us this evening.

Among the soldiers Specialist Sivits identifies as an abuser is Sergeant Javal Davis. Davis faces a half dozen charges, including cruelty and maltreatment and committing indecent acts.

Joining us now is his sister-in-law, Tonenethia Jackson.

Welcome. Good to have you with us tonight. I know this isn't an easy time for you or any member of your family.

TONENETHIA JACKSON, SISTER-IN-LAW OF ACCUSED SOLDIER: No.

ZAHN: Your brother-in-law, Sergeant Davis, is quoted as saying, and he actually said this this morning, that he admitted to -- quote -- "stomping on the fingers and toes of detainees, but never hitting a detainee." What would lead him to even admit to that or even do that?

JACKSON: Basically, he is an honest person.

As far as stepping on someone's toes, policeman, you know, they do far worse things than that, but as far as stepping on their toes, I think that was something light. As far as anything else, I know he wasn't a part of.

ZAHN: He also said -- quote -- "I loosened them up, roughed them up a little, made them scared."

Now, from what Sergeant Davis has told you or your sister-in-law, what would have led him to do that?

JACKSON: Because of his instructions by the intelligence officers. He's a very focused individual.

He's here, you know, to do for his country, so anything that he was instructed to do, that's what he would do, nothing else, nothing less, nothing more. So, as I stated in a previous interview, we were already informed of the things that were going on, and he stated there was a lot of things that were going on that were immoral, and he stated that today in this interview.

ZAHN: And he actually shared some of this information long before this investigation became public.

JACKSON: Exactly.

ZAHN: Let's talk about some of the charges he faces. And I know this makes you cringe every time you hear each one of these charges read.

Conspiracy to maltreat detainees -- maltreating detainees, dereliction of duty, assault, and lying in an official statement. When you hear the collective power of all those charges, what goes through your head? Can he beat this?

JACKSON: I think he will, and I know he will.

He comes from a very -- we are a very religious Christian family. He has a background of Christianity. And he wouldn't do anything immorally to anyone.

(CROSSTALK)

ZAHN: So do you think he's a scapegoat?

JACKSON: Yes, I do. I really do. He has the title of a sergeant, and like I said, he's just instructed to do certain things that, you know, just what he was told, but none of those things, none of those things that you just stated.

ZAHN: How is your sister reacting to these fierce allegations?

JACKSON: Well, she's very upset. And she knows that he's going to get a long road back. He's going to be all right. And we want him to come home so he can come and be with his family. She's very upset, but right now, that's why I'm here, because right now she's in Naval training and she's just trying to stay focused. But she's very upset and she's really here to support him. She's here to support him, and it's going to be all right.

ZAHN: And I know the story has inspired so many different reactions.

JACKSON: Yes.

ZAHN: Has your family been pelted with hate mail?

JACKSON: No, not yet.

(CROSSTALK)

ZAHN: Do you expect that to happen?

JACKSON: Probably. We've been getting a lot of phone calls from reporters and the news. So whatever comes, we're going to be able to handle it, because we're there for him 100 percent.

ZAHN: Well, we appreciate your sharing the story with us tonight. Tonenethia, good of you to drop by.

JACKSON: OK.

ZAHN: Just ahead, mourning a young American executed by Iraqi militants. Friends and family grieve in private as Nicholas Berg is laid to rest, but a lot of questions remain about his death in Iraq. We're going to hear from a friend and a family spokesman.

And this former POW sued Saddam Hussein for torturing him, and he won. So why did the U.S. government stop him from collecting damages? I'll ask him.

ZAHN: And it could be the toughest job in the military, but we're going to show you how these bearers of bad news deliver comfort as well.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

ZAHN: Nicholas Berg was buried this morning at a private ceremony in Pennsylvania. This afternoon, his family and friends gathered for a memorial service.

Security was very tight. People who attended were screened with handheld metal detectors. Nicholas Berg's friend, Bruce Hauser, who has been serving as the Berg family spokesman, was at the service.

He joins us tonight from West Chester, Pennsylvania.

Bruce, thanks so much for being with us on this traumatic day for you.

BRUCE HAUSER, SPOKESMAN FOR BERG FAMILY: Thank you, Paula.

ZAHN: So, Bruce, describe to us what you're comfortable describing to us about the service today.

HAUSER: The service was a very nice service, a lot of family and friends, and at moments very sad and then at moments very joyful.

People were asked to come up and reflect on Nick. His friends did so. Some had sad stories. Some had some very joyful stories. People laughed at times. At times, people cried. I had hoped and do believe that this service will help that family go through another stage where they can actually move on a little, get some relief from all the devastation that they have gone through.

I haven't had a chance to talk to the family this evening. I hope to drop by within the hour, just to encourage them once more before hopefully going to bed tonight. But they're still going to need this community and the prayers from the people all over this country.

ZAHN: We know they obviously are in tremendous pain. Are they bitter about what happened to their son?

HAUSER: I'm quite certain they're bitter.

I'll put myself in their place. I have two children, a son and daughter. And if I were in their shoes under the same circumstances, sure, I would be bitter. I'm sure they want to get to the truth.

ZAHN: And, Bruce, I guess I'm trying to think of everything this family is trying to confront at one time, that is, the whole process of trying to honor their son's legacy at a time when a lot of questions are being raised about what the exact circumstances were surrounding his detention in Iraq.

Can you clear up any of that confusion tonight? Because the U.S. government is still trying to distance itself from any story suggesting that he ever was in U.S. custody.

HAUSER: I have a problem with that.

The community has a problem with that. You have to realize, from what we understand, at one time, Nick Berg was in the hands of the Iraqi police for a short period of time, then supposedly turned over to the American government. I have to believe that, because we all know that the FBI visited the Berg family home.

We have to ask ourselves, why would the FBI have to visit the Berg family home if they never had their son in custody? ZAHN: Well, those are good questions you raise. I wanted to close tonight with something that the attorney general had to say today.

HAUSER: Sure.

ZAHN: Making it clear to the American public that Nick Berg had nothing to do with terrorists, although there seemed to be that chance encounter he had had in Oklahoma with somebody on a bus a while ago, but he did say the Justice Department would work very hard to find his killers. Is the family confident that will happen?

HAUSER: I don't know if the family actually heard that bit of news. But I'll say this, The family will struggle until they know exactly what happened to their son, until the government comes across and at least admits that Nick Berg was in their hands.

I think the family is real troubled at the reports they're hearing that the government is telling everyone that they never had Nick Berg in custody. So I truly believe that, if the government truly comes forward and admits that Nick Berg at one time was in their custody, the family will feel like at least they can put some confidence in the government.

ZAHN: Something that the U.S. government continuing to deny tonight, Bruce, but we obviously want to give our audience both sides of the story tonight.

We appreciate your time in sharing your thoughts about the service today.

HAUSER: Thank you so much, Paula.

ZAHN: Now, most -- our pleasure.

Most media would not play the video of terrorists actually executing Nick Berg. But two San Diego high school teachers allegedly showed it to their classes. Now they are on paid leave. An investigation is under way.

Miguel Marquez reports.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

NICHOLAS BERG, HOSTAGE: Nick Berg. My father's name is Michael.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MIGUEL MARQUEZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): It is the video and the act that shocked the nation, an American in Iraq beheaded. In at least two San Diego area high schools, gory photos, video and audio of the beheading were heard and seen by scores of students. Parents were shocked just to hear about it. UNIDENTIFIED MALE: When a child -- a teacher projects this and shows this horrific scene to a child, that's abuse. It puts something in their minds. How do you get it out of their mind?

MARQUEZ: A spokeswoman for Grossmont Union High School District says video of the beheading was brought up on the Internet by a student at El Capitan High School. The problem, says the school, the teacher may have been aware that students were watching the video and allegedly allowed it to continue playing.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

ZAHN: Well, you are not going crazy. We apologize for that tape kind of falling apart there on the air. We'll try to get the rest of that report to you a little bit later on this evening. But the bottom line is that these teachers are out on paid leave, as San Diego launches an investigation into the circumstances surrounding these kids actually seeing this video in the classroom.

Now, after this week's events, a significant shift in the polls that is not good news for the president or his policies, as the neck- and-neck race with John Kerry changes. We have got the latest numbers just out today.

And we're going to get an exclusive and chilling new story of life behind bars at Abu Ghraib prison. We're also going to look at why sexual humiliation is worse than torture to many people in the Muslim world.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

ZAHN: For President Bush, the week is ending with another unpleasant poll. The CNN/"TIME" survey out today has Democrat John Kerry at 49 percent, leading the president by five points.

Joining us now from Washington to talk about the poll results and more, CROSSFIRE co-hosts Paul Begala and Robert Novak.

Good to see you, gentlemen. Welcome.

ROBERT NOVAK, CO-HOST, "CROSSFIRE": Thank you.

(CROSSTALK)

ZAHN: So, Bob, let's take a loot at another part of that poll, showing that the approval rating is down to 46 percent. That's similar to the results of other recent opinion surveys. And according to "The New York Times," even the president's advisers concede he's having a rough time. How many political peril is he in, Bob?

NOVAK: I don't think it's any different than it was five weeks ago. He's had a lot of bad news, so there's the little people who can't make up their mind whether they want Pepsi or Coke have switched over to Kerry.

But it really doesn't make that much difference. One of the people in the Kerry campaign says this is a 47-47 race. It switches around. And we've got many weeks to go. Even the CNN/"TIME" poll, Paula, it depends on what you take out of it. For example, it says that -- we said on CROSSFIRE today, should Rumsfeld resign? No. Should the U.S. release additional prisoner photos? No. Can the U.S. win in Iraq? Yes. Will they win? Yes.

How are things going in the U.S. today? Well, 58 percent. So the American people are not monolithic. They're divided, and they have a mixed view of what's happening in the world.

ZAHN: Well, Paul, what do you make of some of the statistics Bob just cited? It is easy sometimes to take a poll result out and have it misrepresent the totality of the poll.

PAUL BEGALA, CO-HOST, "CROSSFIRE": Right.

Well, the thing to do is look at a time series. Look at the questions over time. A year ago this month, for example, the president's approval on the war on terrorism was something on the order of 74 to 27 approve. Today, it's 46 approve and 47 disapprove. Now, that's a meltdown. It's a collapse.

This is a president who's now -- they trust John Kerry more to win the war in Iraq. They trust John Kerry more by a large margin on the economy and on health care. This is just a disaster for President Bush. And the problem is, if I'm Karl Rove right now -- and I like Karl -- he's a friend of mine -- but he is about as nervous as a porcupine in a balloon factory, because his candidate's future is not under his control. The president's policies in Iraq have set in motion things he can't control.

(CROSSTALK)

ZAHN: But, Paul, you would have to concede it's not like John Kerry has benefited all that much, as the president's numbers go down.

BEGALA: No.

But he's hasn't picked his running mate. He hasn't had his convention. He hasn't had a debate. It's a two-step. Now, I'm from Texas. And I see everything maybe like a Texas two-step dance. And when an incumbent stands for reelection, four-fifths of the election has nothing to do about the challenger. It's all about, hey, Ethel, we got a president. Should we keep him or should we put the job up for bid?

When I worked for President Clinton, '96, the job was not up for bid. Neither was it for Ronald Reagan. But for George Bush, the job is very up for bid. Right now, we want to get rid of President Bush. John Kerry needs to be a plausible, credible alternative. I think he can more than clear that bar. But that's all that he's got to do to win the thing. It's President Bush who carries the onus for his reelection, as every incumbent must.

NOVAK: Paula, the reason that the job rating -- I mean, this is simplistic, but it's true. It has nothing to do with Bush. But the war news is bad. This is a very difficult war.

If the war news gets better, they'll have more confidence in him. It's as simple as that. President Roosevelt's rating was terrible during the first two years of World War II, because we were doing badly. The American people are not military strategists, but they know when things are not going well. And they're not going well in Iraq.

ZAHN: I know you're a man, Bob, who appreciates history, but the head of the Gallup Poll is saying today that in the 50 years that they've been doing polling, that no president has won reelection if they were at less than 50 percent at this stage of the game.

NOVAK: There's always a first time. There's also no president has ever lost reelection if the economy is on the upswing and he doesn't have a fight for the nomination.

So I could make all these silly little things that -- but that isn't -- these historical precedents and these historical patterns are meaningless. What's important is what 7 percent of the voters in about 15 or 16 states do. And this is going to be a very personal decision on their part. And I agree with Paul to this extent -- he doesn't like it when I agree with him, but I will -- that it will have a lot to do on how the war is going in Iraq.

ZAHN: I hate to cut it off here, but I'm sure you want to sail into your weekend now. Thank you for both of your perspectives. Appreciate you joining us tonight.

And when we come back, hundreds of innocent Iraqis are set free from Abu Ghraib prison. We're going to have the latest on that in a live report from Baghdad.

And it is the most heartbreaking assignment in the military. Meet the officers who deliver the news no one ever wants to hear.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

ZAHN: Back to some of the headlines you need to know right now.

An Israeli helicopter fired rockets into Gaza City tonight. The target reportedly was a building used by an Islamic Jihad official. The militant group says he was not there.

There was a huge anti-U.S. protest in Cuba today. By the hundreds of thousands, Cubans marched to show anger with President Bush, who has tightened the U.S. economic embargo.

The U.S. Supreme Court is staying out of the Massachusetts gay marriage controversy. Without comment today, the court turned down a request to block Massachusetts from legalizing same-sex marriages. That happens on Monday.

And in Denmark, a celebration. Crown Prince Frederik married Australian Mary Donaldson. She's a commoner. They met in a Sydney bar during the 2000 Olympic Games. Well, today, the U.S. military released some Iraqi detainees from the infamous Abu Ghraib prison. Some 293 of them are now free. It is the largest prisoner release since abuse photos surfaced several weeks ago. It comes as U.S. forces in Najaf continue to fight supporters of radical cleric Muqtada al-Sadr.

Ben Wedeman joins us now live from Baghdad with all of the details.

Good evening, Ben.

BEN WEDEMAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes. Good evening, Paula. Well, talks about a negotiated settlement to the standoff in Najaf were replaced Friday by renewed clashes between U.S. forces and members of Muqtada Sadr's so-called Mehdi Army.

Now, U.S. forces exchanged fire with militiamen in Najaf's cemetery, which is considered sacred ground by Shi'ites, while Arabic satellite new networks carried footage of a Sadr aide pointing out battle damage to the golden dome of the Imam Ali mosque, which is, of course, the city's host holy shrine.

American spokesmen in Baghdad, however, say that their forces have not fired in the direction of that mosque, and if anything, the damage was probably caused by members of the Mehdi Army itself.

Now, there are conflicting information about the death toll in Najaf. The coalition says that they've killed somewhere around 10 members of the Mehdi Army, but hospital sources tell CNN -- hospital sources in Najaf -- that two militiamen were killed, along with six civilians.

Now, meanwhile, here in Baghdad on Friday morning, around 300 prisoners were released from the Abu Ghraib prison outside Baghdad. Hundreds of people had assembled outside that prison after hearing rumors that there would be a release. Now, American officials, of course, are trying to cut down -- rather, reduce the population of prisoners at Abu Ghraib somewhere to between 1,500 to 2,000 from an original of about 3,800. And of course, 500 more prisoners, we're told, will be released next Friday -- Paula.

ZAHN: Ben Wedeman, thanks for the update. Appreciate it.

Meanwhile, the Bush administration says it wants to compensate abused Iraqi prisoners, but some former Gulf war POWs don't think that's fair. That's because the administration has opposed compensation for Americans who were held captive and tortured during Saddam Hussein's regime. The veterans believe both sets of prisoners should get funds.

Jeff Fox is a former Gulf war POW who, along with 16 other veterans, originally won a billion-dollar claim against the Iraqi government. But the Justice Department appealed the award, saying the money is need to rebuild Iraq. Jeff Fox joins us now from Surfside Beach, South Carolina. Thank you very much for being with us tonight, Jeff. JEFF FOX, FORMER GULF WAR POW: Thanks. Thanks, Paula.

ZAHN: So were you surprised when you heard Secretary Rumsfeld say that these Iraqi prisoners were entitled to compensation from the U.S. government?

FOX: I will admit, yes, it was a bit of a surprise to hear them actually saying that they will be compensated.

ZAHN: Was it disheartening to you?

FOX: It just -- it just came as a surprise. It was just a little confusing, quite frankly.

ZAHN: And explain to our audience tonight why it was so confusing, given this long fight that you have been involved with, with the U.S. government.

FOX: Well, Paula, Congress passed a law in 1996 which authorized us to sue terrorist nations who mistreat Americans and torture them. We had a lawsuit, took it to court. Based upon that law, a judge made a decision in our favor. The awards that we were given were to be taken from Iraqi frozen funds. It was pretty straightforward, but the Bush administration then released those funds to rebuild Iraq.

ZAHN: Let me read for you tonight a statement from the White House spokesman, Scott McClellan, about this very specific issue. And he said this a little bit earlier this week. Quote, "It was determined by Congress and the administration that those assets were no longer assets of Iraq, but they were resources required for the urgent national security needs of rebuilding Iraq. But again, there is simply no amount of compensation that could ever truly compensate these brave men and women."

Is the last part of that statement true?

FOX: I would say yes. I mean, we almost lost our lives and were tortured and beaten. But I still don't understand how, rather than give us the money that we were awarded, they put a priority on sending that back to Iraq.

ZAHN: Down the road, do you think you have any other legal remedy here?

FOX: Well, it's still in court and we're still waiting for the final decision -- or a decision from the appellate court in Washington, D.C. And we have tried to negotiate with the administration, to see if we can come up with some kind of plan that would satisfy everyone, but apparently, they won't do that, either.

ZAHN: And I know, Jeff, from the very beginning, you wanted everybody to know this really is not about this money, this is about what you endured as a POW. In closing tonight, why don't you share with our audience some of what you were subjected to when you were held as a POW. FOX: OK. In the 15 days that I was held, I lost 23 pounds. You were fed once a day. You were handcuffed and blindfolded whenever you were taken anywhere. I was beaten almost daily. On one occasion, my right eardrum was broken. On one occasion during an interrogation, I was told if I did not answer the specific question that I would be shot. And they had a gun placed at my right ear, and it was actually shot near my right ear. On two occasions, they completely stripped me naked and checked to see if I was circumcised. On the night of the 23rd of February, we were in the Ba'ath Party headquarters and were attacked by coalition forces, and we almost lost our lives there. And that's about it.

ZAHN: I know that you have spent many painful years reliving that, and it's taken you a while to say all of that out loud. It strikes me, though, that you don't sound like a bitter man. You just seem let down by this very long battle you've had with the U.S. government.

FOX: You're right. I mean, this -- I'm enjoying my life here. This is the greatest country. And it just is frustrating to see an administration place foreign citizens ahead of servicemen and women who almost lost their life.

ZAHN: Well, we appreciate your sharing your painful story with us tonight. Jeff Fox, thank you.

FOX: Thank you.

ZAHN: And we want to remind all of you that CNN did contact the Justice Department about this matter and was told that the department does not comment on ongoing cases.

Coming up next, the role of sexual humiliation in the prison abuse scandal. Why did soldiers choose to punish Iraqi prisoners by stripping them and putting them in sexually explicit positions? Some surprising answers just ahead.

And for every death on the battlefield, a painful knock on the front door -- a look at one of the saddest duties in the military.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

ZAHN: The pictures we've seen of Iraqi prisoners humiliated sexually carry an especially painful weight in the Muslim world. Joining us now to explain us what those images mean to Muslims, Anie Kalayjian, a professor of psychology at Fordham University and the author of "Disaster and Mass Trauma." And in Los Angeles tonight, Maryam Qudrat Aseel, an expert on Muslim culture and author of "Torn Between Two Cultures: An Afghan-American Woman Speaks Out." We have dueling books this evening! Welcome to both of you.

Maryam, I want to start with you this evening. First of all, why is this sexual activity so degrading to Muslims?

MARYAM QUDRAT ASEEL, EXPERT ON MUSLIM CULTURE: Well, one thing we have to understand is there's a clear distinction and separation in the Islamic cultural context between private worlds and public worlds. And sexual behavior is a very sensitive and private matter, and so sexual abuse really strikes at the very heart of the core Muslim belief systems. And Muslims are willing to die for and value their belief systems above their life preservation.

ZAHN: One of the soldiers, Maryam, who was featured prominently in the photos is Lynndie England. And we're going to put up the picture right now for our audience to remember. Now, these are images of her smiling and pointing at naked Iraqi prisoners. Can you tell us why these pictures particularly upsetting to Muslims?

ASEEL: Well, it's particularly upsetting in the sense that you have a military personnel who is charged with upholding the American democratic ideals, and who is a military official, in a position where they're subjecting an Iraqi prisoner, who is supposed to be, in a certain sense, seeking refuge and confidence in Americans there in that situation. So that's the first problem.

Now, this points to the fact that the six individuals charged in this case are actually -- or actually, seven individuals charged, six reprimanded -- is not satisfying. This is not an isolated incident. According to Donald Rumsfeld, this is just the tip of the iceberg, and there are many similar situations and cases.

ZAHN: All right...

ASEEL: And so it points to a systemic change that's needed.

ZAHN: Let's bring Anie into the discussion now. We've heard a lot of different explanations about what potentially could lead to this kind of abuse. But what a lot of us are wondering tonight -- we understand beatings, perhaps, that have been done in prisons, but why is this so sexually explicit?

ANIE KALAYJIAN, PSYCHOLOGY PROFESSOR, FORDHAM UNIVERSITY: Well, sexual abuse is the next level. After physical abuse is usually the sexual abuse, where it gets to the inner core, inner -- inner being. You can't get any closer to one except sex. And in power -- not in power -- power over and abuse, and (UNINTELLIGIBLE) in such a way that would bring shame to the rest of the culture. That's another thing, not only the family, the individual, but the rest of the community, the rest of the Islamic world.

ZAHN: And Maryam was talking about the devastating impact this has on a Muslim's psyche. Help us understand both the long-term -- or the short-term effects and the long-term effects.

KALAYJIAN: Well, the short-term effects is, of course, the combat trauma. It's, of course, both. I think, the reason that soldiers are doing these atrocities is because they are terrified, they are traumatized, they are misguided, filled with hatred, and sent there with no guidance, support or group therapy or any kind of counseling. I'm presuming.

But on top of that, for the victims, this would be generational. This trauma will go -- impact generation into the next generations. I have my mother having flashbacks because she remembered the sexual abuses that her grandparents had to undergo in 1915, when the Ottoman Turks were killing the Armenians. My clients that are Vietnam veterans can't sleep and they're having flashbacks because they remember all this. It was happening in Vietnam. It was happening in World War II.

ZAHN: Sure.

KALAYJIAN: It was -- it's -- the more the same is continuing, I'm very sad to say this.

ZAHN: Anie and Maryam, thank you for giving us a better understanding of what potentially could have led to all of this. Appreciate both of your perspectives tonight.

And coming up next, we're going to turn to families who pay the ultimate price in war and those who deliver the bad news on their doorstep. What does it do -- or what does it take to do this job?

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No matter how many times you do it, you don't get used to it.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ZAHN: Teaching soldiers the painful task of hurting hearts and helping to comfort them, as well, coming up.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

ZAHN: Now an exclusive interview with an Iraqi man who says he was a victim of abuse by Americans at Abu Ghraib. The man, now in the U.S., says he was locked up as a suspected terrorist in Iraq last fall. Jason Bellini has interviewed him and joins us from Dearborn, Michigan, just outside of Detroit. Hi, Jason.

JASON BELLINI, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Paula -- hi, Paula. His name is Mr. Saleh. He only wants to go by that last name. He doesn't want to be identified by his first name. He wouldn't also allow us to show his face. But he has an absolutely remarkable story.

He was actually in Abu Ghraib prison during Saddam Hussein's regime in the early '80s. He says he was tortured there. After that, he ended up leaving the country. He left after the first Gulf war, when he said that Saddam Hussein had a price on his head. He moved to Sweden. And then after this last Gulf war, he entered Iraq, he drove his Mercedes there, hoping to start a business and help in the rebuilding of Iraq.

Now, he was captured along the way by coalition forces and ended up in Abu Ghraib prison. Now, the coalition has confirmed for us that he was in Abu Ghraib prison. His account thereof, what happened inside that prison, we have not been able to independently verify, but here's his story.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

MR. SALEH, FORMER ABU GHRAIB DETAINEE (through translator): What happened cannot be said or described. The worst of things took place. It was very difficult. I still recall those voices at night of Iraqi women. During the time of Saddam, that happened. But under the American forces, that was unexpected and it hurts. No human should accept what happened. We didn't believe what would happen. These people do not represent America. These are only a few Americans looking down at Iraqis.

BELLINI: What happened to you inside the prison?

MR. SALEH (through translator): Let's see. At the beginning, I was in a situation, my hands were tied behind my back like this, in front of a table, and they were interrogating me. And they kept saying, You're a liar, you're not Swedish. I told them I am Swedish. He said, OK. So he put his feet right on my neck. I had a hood over my head, so I didn't know who was interrogating me.

After that, they untied my hands. They asked me to take my clothes off. So I took my clothes off. They pulled me by my hair, like this, and pushed me to the floor. They got me up and pushed me against the wall. Then I was thrown on the floor again. Anyway, and they kept doing this again and again every five minutes. They were all Americans. Some were in civilian clothes, others in military clothes, but there were more civilians than military, and the civilians were the ones who were giving orders to the soldiers. They put a leash around my neck, a very tough one, and they pulled me across the hall, like that, a long distance.

BELLINI: All that you said that went through at Abu Ghraib prison, why would you come to the United States just a few months after your release?

MR. SALEH (through translator): Because I promised the prisoners that I have to go to the United States and bring this to the attention of Americans. And I tell the U.S. administration and the U.S. Congress we don't deserve all this.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BELLINI: Paula, he's also here seeking compensation for the suffering he says he went through in Abu Ghraib prison. He also wants to get back his life's savings, which was taken from him when he was arrested, life's savings of $79,000, which he was planning to use to start an auto repair business. He also wants to have his Mercedes returned to him, which he estimates in value at $3,000 -- Paula.

ZAHN: So what was the exact period of time that he was held at Abu Ghraib prison?

BELLINI: He was in Abu Ghraib prison from October 4 through December 25. And during that time -- he says that he was there during the time of these pictures that we're seeing on TV now, that he recognized one person -- at least one person in the photos, some of the prisoners, as well. And he says that his experience is very much like theirs.

Now, Paula, he didn't want to go into all of the details. He said they were too humiliating for him to recount. His lawyer, however, in a document that they have sent to the U.S. government, to the Pentagon, asking for compensation, lays them all out, and there are some very gory details -- Paula.

ZAHN: All right, Jason, but here's the part of the story that I don't get, is why was he considered a suspected terrorist when he was taken in? Have you been able to confirm why he was pulled off the street, and whether, in fact, those suspicions were accurate?

BELLINI: Well, it was likely a misunderstanding. You know, we haven't been able to hear from the coalition itself why he was picked up. He suspects it's because he had a Swedish passport, and they thought that he was there as perhaps a foreign fighter. He also had all this money on him. And so they were wondering what his story was and somehow got lost in the shuffle. Again, this is his theory, not verified by the coalition. We don't know, in this situation, why he and so many others have ended up in the prison system in Iraq -- Paula.

ZAHN: Jason Bellini, thanks so much. Fascinating story.

We're going to return now to a story we started to bring you earlier, until some technical problems arose. Two San Diego-area high school teachers are under investigation tonight for allegedly showing their classes the entire video of terrorists beheading American Nick Berg. Miguel Marquez has that story.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

MIGUEL MARQUEZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): It is the video and the act that shocked the nation, an American in Iraq beheaded. And in at least two San Diege-area high schools, gory photos, video and audio of the beheading were heard and seen by scores of students. Parents were shocked just to hear about it.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: When a child -- a teacher projects this and shows this horrific scene to a child, that's abuse. It puts something in their mind. How do you get it out of the mind?

MARQUEZ: A spokeswoman for Grossmont Union high school district says the video of the beheading was brought up on the Internet by a student at the El Capitain High School. The problem, says the school, the teacher may have been aware that students were watching the video and allegedly allowed it to continue playing.

RICK ROBERTS, KFMB RADIO: Why did your daughter file the complaint?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: She was distraught by a video that was in the classroom.

MARQUEZ: That prompted an angry protest by a parent -- not to the school district, but to a local radio station. ROBERTS: Most of us in the media have seen the video. I don't want to see it a second time. And I don't think a classroom is the proper place to do this.

MARQUEZ: As the school district began to look into the complaint, investigators say that another teacher at another high school allegedly played the audio recording of Nicholas Berg's last moments and showed a photo of his severed head to four classes of 30 students each.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We certainly are going to explain to parents that that is not acceptable, that it's not the policy of the district.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

MARQUEZ: Now, CNN has tried to contact the teachers and the teachers' union, seeking their side of the story. The union will only say that it is in discussions with the school district about the matter. A spokeswoman for the school district says that the district strives to keep as open an academic environment as possible. She also says an investigation is under way. Statements from students and teachers will be taken, and the school board may discuss the matter when it meets on May 20. For now, both teachers are on paid suspension -- Paula.

ZAHN: Keep us posted. Miguel Marquez, thanks.

As of today, 781 American troops have died in Iraq since the war began. Each death means a family will get a knock on the door -- "the call," as it's known in the military. Thelma Gutierrez takes a look at those officers assigned to deliver the most painful message a family can get.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: On behalf of the Marine Corps, I regret to inform you that your husband was killed in action.

THELMA GUTIERREZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): They're words no military family wants to hear, delivered by an officer no family wants to see.

LT. JOHN KENNY, U.S. NAVY: Somebody's walking up to the door in their dress uniforms, that something tragic has happened.

GUTIERREZ: But it is an officer's duty. Lieutenant Colonel Russell Pharris remembers the visit he made.

LT. COL. RUSSELL PHARRIS, USMC: Real early AM, morning. The family's sleeping. Woke them up, and then went ahead and notified them of what had happened.

KENNY: You didn't get a chance to even breathe, in a sense, because it was one right after another.

GUTIERREZ: Lieutenant John Kenny made seven visits in one month. (on camera): Did you know any of these people?

KENNY: I knew every one of them.

CMDR. FRANK HOLLEY, U.S. NAVY: If you do get assigned, it's probably going to be one of the most difficult things you have to do in your career.

GUTIERREZ (voice-over): These are the Casualty Assistance Calls Officers, or CACOs, in training at the Marine Corps air station in Miramar, California.

INSTRUCTOR: This is, for military members, the absolute most traumatic, worst information, because you're there to inform them of a death or a very serious injury.

GUTIERREZ: It's the military's way of caring for their own. On this day, 75 Marines are taught what to say.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Ma'am, sir, I have some very important information to tell you.

GUTIERREZ: They're taught what not to say.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Do not say they've passed away. Do not say they're no longer with us. Those terms gives them some false hope that they are not dead.

GUTIERREZ: And they're taught to expect the unexpected.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You have to think on your feet and observe, and in some instances, duck, step back from the door so you don't get hit in the face with the door as they slam it in your face.

GUTIERREZ: The CACO not only delivers the news, they will help with the funeral arrangements, and later the complicated life decisions that have to be made.

HOLLEY: Once there were telegrams, and now we have really concerned, compassionate care, because we extend that to our families because, you know, should something ever happen to me, I mean, I would want that extended to my wife and family, as well.

GUTIERREZ: The students role-play.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: He was killed in a mortar round attack.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: How -- where is he? When can I see him?

HOLLEY: I don't care how many times you've done this, you go up there, your knees are shaking. You get a queasiness in the pit of your stomach because you're going to deliver some really tough news.

GUTIERREZ: The students know, when this class is over, they may soon get the call to step in as a CACO.

KENNY: It's one of those things that when you're trained, you just pray that you never have to do it.

GUTIERREZ: Thelma Gutierrez, CNN, Miramar, California.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

ZAHN: Powerful medicine. We'll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

ZAHN: That's it for all of us tonight. Thank you for wrapping up the week here with us this evening. We appreciate it. We hope you'll be with us same time, same place, on Monday night. "LARRY KING LIVE" is next. We hope you have a real good weekend. Again, hope to see you at the beginning of the week.

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