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Paula Zahn Now
Cheney v. Edwards; What Will Turnout Be Like on Election Day?
Aired October 04, 2004 - 20:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
PAULA ZAHN, HOST: Good evening, and welcome. Thanks so much for joining us for prime time politics tonight.
Tomorrow they get their one and only chance. Cheney, the seasoned warrior. Edwards, the convincing young trial lawyer.
Tonight, the running mate debate is taking on new importance.
And could we be looking at an especially large turnout in this election? Across the country in churches and in shopping malls, there is a last-ditch registration effort as both parties scramble for the votes that could lead to victory.
But first, another twist in the latest polls that lights a fire beneath both candidates. Twenty-nine days to election today, and the race is now neck and neck. Before the debate, President Bush had opened up an eight-point lead among likely voters, but what a difference one debate makes. Today among likely votes the race is tied at 49 percent, making the remaining presidential debates this Friday and the following Wednesday even more crucial.
That's also true of tomorrow night's debate between John Edwards and Dick Cheney. Both men were out of sight today making last-minute preparations, leaving Senator Kerry and President Bush squarely in the spotlight.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
ZAHN (voice-over): The power of incumbency. Four weeks and a day before the election, president Bush, came to the battleground state of Iowa, to sign a bill extending tax cuts for the middle class.
GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Today with my signature, federal law will extend vital tax relief for millions of American families and ad momentum to our growing economy.
ZAHN: At the same time, in the battleground state of New Hampshire, Senator Kerry was talking about raising some taxes and lowering others.
SEN. JOHN KERRY (D-MA), PRESIDENTIAL NOMINEE: All of this is choices. You can't have the health care plan we need for America for nothing, and I'm not telling you it's for nothing. And we're going to pay for it by rolling back George Bush's tax cuts just for the people who earn more than $200,000 a year. Everybody else in America, 98 percent of America is going to get a tax cut under my plan. ZAHN: With polls showing the race dead-even, you can sense the new energy and urgency in the way both candidates move, attack and draw contrasts.
BUSH: He has a system that's creeping toward Hillary-care.
ZAHN: This week both campaigns are emphasizing health care and taxes, domestic issues that are the focus of the remaining two debates. Even the commercials reflect this new phase of the campaign.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No relief there from the marriage penalty?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: More taxes because I'm married. What were they thinking?
ANNOUNCER: Three hundred-fifty times higher taxes for locals in Congress and John Kerry.
KERRY: It's time to lift the barriers blocking the stem cell research that could treat or cure diseases, like Parkinson's.
ZAHN: Kerry is now putting a big emphasize on his support for stem cell research. National polls show a large majority of Americans support it as well. But it's a touchy subjects for Catholics and evangelicals, among others,because it involves the destruction of fertilized human embryos, in the hope of treating incurable diseases. President Bush approved limited federal funding for stem cell research in 2001. Kerry brought along actor and Parkinson's disease sufferer, Michael J. Fox to argue for more.
MICHAEL J. FOX, ACTOR: He decided to allow it to go forward, but he so restricted the stem cell lines available to us, that it was kind of like he gave us a car and no gas.
KERRY: Now we stand at the edge of the next great frontier, but instead of leading the way, we're stuck on the sideline.
ZAHN: A Bush campaign spokesman called Kerry's attack baseless and dishonest. Expect both candidates and their running mates to clash over the issues at the remaining debates.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
ZAHN: Neck and neck, with 29 days and three debates to go. Joining me from their respective headquarters in Washington area are Bush campaign manager, Ken Mehlman, and Kerry campaign senior adviser, Joe Lockhart.
Great to have both of you here tonight.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Thanks. Good to be her, Paula.
ZAHN: So, Ken, I'm going to start with you this evening. You no doubt are familiar with the latest polls here, showing John Kerry now in a dead heat with the president, also gaining significant momentum when it comes to issues of Iraq and the war on terrorism. What happened to the president?
KEN MEHLMAN, BUSH CAMPAIGN MANAGER: Well, I think we've always said it would be a close race. There are a number of new polls out today. The CNN/Gallup is one of them. There's an ABC News/"Washington Post," that has the president up five points. But we've always planned for a close race. I think that Senator Kerry has gained a few points in the past couple days, but both sides, I think, have always said this will be a close election and that's what we expected. This president is going to win the elections. Because I think on the critical issues, the war on terror and the economy, the president has the right approach, and I think the American people are going to reject Senator Kerry's approach.
ZAHN: We're going to put up on the screen now, more polling information on those two specific issues. And Joe Lockhart, as you can see, John Kerry has gained on the issue of the economy, but the president's still ahead of him on handling Iraq and terrorism by margins of 7 and 17 percent.
How do you make a dent in those numbers?
JOE LOCKHART, KERRY CAMPAIGN SENIOR ADVISER: Well, we've made a significant dent in those numbers in the first debate. I think the second and third we'll keep going in this direction. The public -- it's sort of the wrong question, though. When you ask the public if they think John Kerry can handle the war on terrorism, handle the war on Iraq, correct the mistakes of this administration in Iraq, you know, a good majority of the country says yes.
ZAHN: But they still give the president significant benefit of the doubt there on those numbers.
LOCKHART: Well, I think an incumbent will always enjoy some advantage on issues of national security. The bottom line though, is they're now looking at John Kerry as someone who can do this job. And then if expand it to some other numbers, they really think that he can do a much better job on the economy and health care and energy independence. These are all issues. I mean, we take a different view I think than the administration, which is the public expects us to do a lot. They expect us to keep the country safe, fight the war on terror, and turn the economy around for the middle class. This economy has been miserable for the middle class over the last four years and the public expects more.
ZAHN: Ken, jump in here.
MEHLMAN: Well, Paula -- Paula, I think what you saw in the debate, was a clear contrast between someone that was committed to winning the spin cycle and somebody who wanted to win the global war on terror. And while John Kerry did well in the short term in the spin cycle, I think the debate raised a lot of concerns.
What is this global test that the commander in chief has to meet before he defends America? ZAHN: All right. All right. Ken, to be perfectly fair, though, people are taking that sentence out of context. Didn't he also make it clear in that very same sentence that a commander in chief has to have the power to take preemptive action?
MEHLMAN: I don't think he did make it clear. And I think if you look...
ZAHN: But he said it.
MEHLMAN: But I think, if you look at the larger context of Kerry's troubling opposition to the $87 billion for our troops.
ZAHN: But Ken, I'm talking about those two specific sentences in his speech.
MEHLMAN: If you look at those two sentences, I found was very troubling. He first said one thing, and then said something else which totally contradicted it. And then if you look at his overall record, it's very troubling and very concerning, because the last thing we want, as we face a global war on terror, is commander in chief who will either ,A, give mix messages or b, approach this stuff from a political perspective. Our enemies need to know, our allies need to know, the Iraqi people need to know, and our troops need to know that when the commander in chief says something, he means it and you can stick with it. They know that from the president and they just don't know it from Senator Kerry.
ZAHN: If we are going to honestly parse words, John Kerry did use the word "global test" at the end of that sentence or two, was that a mistake for him to have done?
And do you understand why people are interpreting it the way Ken is tonight?
LOCKHART: I understand that's why the Bush campaign is interpreting it that way, because it's a pattern. They take half of a sentence and they make it into something it's not. And they do that for two reasons. One is they don't want to take on the real John Kerry, and two they can't defend their record.
MEHLMAN: President says look out for our national security first, then you try to build a coalition around it. That's very different from saying you will meet a global test before you defend America. And the only pattern that we've seen in this campaign and throughout this unfortunate over the last year and a half during Senator Kerry's campaign, has been Senator Kerry saying whatever the audience wants to hear. And that is what the commander in chief needs to do when we face the threat of terrorism. That's the question.
ZAHN: Gentleman going to move you on to the vice presidential debates tomorrow night.
Joe Lockhart, how does candidate Edwards defend himself against the charge that is most certain to come that he's inexperienced and does not deserve to be vice president of the United States? MEHLMAN: All he has to do is look at the 30 years of experience that Dick Cheney has and say sometimes experience isn't such a good thing for America. I think his task in this debate is to be a strong advocate for John Kerry, which a vice presidential candidate should do. And secondly do what John Kerry did in the debate, no the first time in a long time, hold this administration accountable for the failure in Iraq, failure abroad and failure with the domestic issue, with rising health care cost, the worst job creations since Herbert Hoover, and everything else on the domestic agenda.
ZAHN: Ken, coming back on the vice president's challenge tomorrow night, you hear a lot of grumblings out there in Democratic circles, that he's going to be attacked for having run Halliburton at CEO at one point, a company of course, that's gotten some no-bid contracts in Iraq. And a company that's also being investigated for overcharging the government for work.
MEHLMAN: Paula, the vice president's an incredible public servant. He has great judgment, and that's why the president made him vice president. You can expect the vice president talk about this administration's leadership, talk about how the American people as the 9/11 Commission pointed out, are safer than we were. But still we need to keep moving forward to make us safer. To talk about what we've done on the economy, but we can expect a strong performance by Senator John Edwards. He wasn't chosen because of his legislative accomplishments, because he doesn't have a lot. And he wasn't chosen because of his judgment, because he hasn't spent a lot of time in office.
ZAHN: So what do you think he was chosen for, Ken.
MEHLMAN: He was chosen because he's a great advocate and he's made a lot of money as a personal injury trial lawyer. And I think we can expect to hear from Senator Edwards a good advocacy, and he'll be very glib, very effective, and he'll do a good job, I'm sure, but the question is at the end of the debate, will he answer the credibility gap that the Kerry/Edwards ticket has, or will they take the necessary steps to keep America safe during this global threat and the credibility gap on the economy. The American people don't want higher taxes, more red tape, and more lawsuits and that's the Kerry/Edwards strategy.
ZAHN: We've got to leave it there this evening. I hope you guys get some sleep in the next 29 days. Not much, I'm sure. Appreciate your time.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
We've got lots more politics to come. Getting the edge in a razor-close race.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Make sure you're registered to vote.
ZAHN: Both parties sign up thousands of young voters. And both try to draw true believers to their cause.
And a confrontation of cultures, ideas, and styles. One honed in the boardroom, the other in the courtroom.
SEN. JOHN EDWARDS (D-NC), VICE PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: These people need to be held responsible.
ZAHN: What to expect from tomorrow's clash in Cleveland.
And our voting booth question, "how much will tomorrow night's vice presidential debate influence you?" Visit our Web site at CNN.com/paula and let us know. We'll have the results at the end of the hour and much more as PAULA ZAHN NOW prime-time politics continues.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
ZAHN: With our latest poll showing the presidential race in a dead heat, tomorrow's vice presidential debate becomes so much more important than it was just a few days ago. John Edwards, freshman senator, veteran trial lawyer and charmer of juries versus Dick Cheney, vice president, former defense secretary with the polished manner of a wise and reasonable grandfather. Each has his own weaknesses. Our Candy Crowley looks ahead to tomorrow's clash in Cleveland.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
CANDY CROWLEY, CNN SR. POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): It may not prove pivotal. It will almost surely be pretty darn interesting. The silver-tongued southerner who sugarcoats his attack dog role with a smile and a drawl.
EDWARDS: This president needs to get out of fantasy land and come back to reality.
CROWLEY: Versus the unflappable westerner who pivots from avuncular to acid without changing tone.
DICK CHENEY, VICE PRESIDENT: John Kerry gives every indication that his repeated efforts to cast and recast and redefine the war on terror.
CROWLEY: Cheney is the elder by a dozen years, the more experienced by decades. Former White House chief of staff, former congressman, former secretary of defense, boardroom big shot of Halliburton in the Clinton years and arguably the most powerful vice president in history. Edwards is a first-term senator fresh off a career as a successful personal injury trial lawyer.
EDWARDS: My leadership would come from out here in the real world.
CROWLEY: Edwards hopes to counter Cheney's experience with energy, Cheney's gravitas with the common touch and an ability to move voters in much the same way he surely moved juries.
EDWARDS: Somewhere in America a mother sits at her kitchen table. She can't sleep because she's worried. She can't pay her bills.
CROWLEY: He was named "PEOPLE" magazine's sexiest politician. Cheney was not duly noted with a reinforced the experience gap.
CHENEY: Senator Edwards, I shouldn't call him John, I don't know him that well, but Senator Edwards, of course, it is alleged got his job because he's charming, sexy, good-looking and has great hair. I said, how do you think I got the job? Why do they laugh when I say that?
CROWLEY: Cheney and Edwards arrive at the debate with polar opposite challenges. For all his gravitas, Cheney needs to guard against being too dark.
CHENEY: Because if we make the wrong choice then the danger is that we'll get hit again.
CROWLEY: And for all his charm, Edwards cannot be seen as too light.
EDWARDS: I've come to the conclusion that what George Bush really believes is he believes that he's like Ken Lay and America's his Enron.
CROWLEY: Now, about vice presidential debates...
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Senator, I served with Jack Kennedy, I knew Jack Kennedy. Jack Kennedy was a friend of mine. Senator, you're no Jack Kennedy.
CROWLEY: Lloyd Bentsen cleaned Dan Quayle's clock that night in October of '88, a month later Quayle was elected vice president of the United States. In fact, no paragraph in history tells of a vice presidential debate turning an election. Still history books are made for asterisks and campaigns are measured by daily ups and downs. A strong Cheney performance could put a placeholder in the polls until President Bush can redeem himself from a less than stellar first debate and a good showing from John Edwards would put more wind behind John Kerry.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
ZAHN: And Candy Crowley joins us now from Cleveland, as does senior White House correspondent John King. Good to see the two of you. So Candy, history pretty much teaches us that elections don't normally turn on these vice presidential debates. However, what could happen tomorrow night that would make the debate an exception?
CROWLEY: Cheney could be perfectly awful, and he could, you know, complete a downward spiral. John Edwards can prove himself inept on foreign policy questions, and everyone will go, well, do we really want that guy to be a heartbeat away? I don't expect either one will happen. I think it's not something you so much win. You could lose it pretty big, but both these men are very intelligent, very articulate. I don't expect that should happen. ZAHN: John, the one thing the vice president has to do is confront some pretty high negatives. Polls will tell us some of the highest in history for a vice presidential candidate hovering around some 40 percent. What is the Bush campaign most worried about?
JOHN KING, CNN SR. WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: They believe the vice president will rebut those negatives. They do expect some sharp criticism on Halliburton. They expect John Edwards to try to make Dick Cheney the poster boy of an administration the Democrats say is in the pocket of big energy and big business. They say the vice president is perfectly capable of handling himself. The one goal they have for the vice president going in is a lot of Republicans are saying, oh, boy after the president's performance last week -- the Bush campaign thinks that's overstated, thinks some Republicans are overly panicking but they want the vice president to put some adrenaline back into the Republican base, a tablesetter, if you will, for what the Bush campaign promises to be a better performance by the president in round two.
ZAHN: And Candy, we can almost see the attacks coming on John Edwards tomorrow about his lack of foreign affairs experience. This debate is already being characterized by some as Dr. Doom versus Huck Finn. How does he shed that label tomorrow night?
CROWLEY: Well, they intend to take Cheney's strength which is his experience and turn it against him and say, listen, that's 30 years in Washington, but look what he's done. The one great thing about somebody that has a record as long as Cheney's is there's a record. And they have gone through the things that the vice president said when he was secretary of defense. They have gone through some of the things he said when he was a Congressman, and that's stuff you can throw back at him. In terms of simply meeting that standard, do the American people think that this is a man who's ready to step into the presidency should he need to, they acknowledge in the Kerry camp that in fact he is going to have to meet that test, but again, this is a man who is well-schooled in the art of articulation. They believe that he knows his stuff and he will be able to meet that test.
ZAHN: John, finally you said the Bush campaign expects Cheney to confront some of these negatives, but I understand he's still smarting from all those rumors that were being circulated that he was going to be dumped from the ticket months ago. Will he confront that?
KING: Well, he didn't like that. The question might come up. If he's asked that question, I'm sure he'll be happy to answer it.
The vice president didn't like the chatter among some Republicans that somehow the vice president should look for somebody younger, somebody more energetic. He believes that he's the right man for this job. But if that question comes up, I'm sure the vice president will be happy to answer it. He says he serves at the pleasure of the president.
But the president never had such thoughts. I mean, that is one of the reasons the vice president doesn't like the chatter you sometimes get in Washington, but as Candy just noted, he's an experienced man, he's been around to see this chatter before. He's not always the subject of it, but the vice president is very comfortable in this setting. Aides say he's very much looking forward to this debate. You might be surprised to see much less criticism of John Edwards, and what the vice president will say, if given a chance, his lack of experience. His focus will be on John Kerry much more than on John Edwards.
ZAHN: All right. John King, Candy Crowley, look forward to seeing you tomorrow night in Cleveland. We will be there live with the two of you.
Although the issue of stem cell research has been around for a while, the voters have yet to have their say, but they will soon. Stem cells, science, ethics and politics when we come back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
ZAHN: And welcome back. As we saw earlier, John Kerry spent a good deal of the day talking about his support for stem cell research, and attacking President Bush's decision to limit funding for it. But it's not just an issue for this campaign. In one state, federal restrictions have led to a controversial ballot initiative. That story from Thelma Gutierrez.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
THELMA GUTIERREZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Imagine a world without disease.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Lou Gehrig's disease, Alzheimer's.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Parkinson's, heart disease.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Cure for HIV/AIDS.
GUTIERREZ: It sounds far-fetched, but many scientists believe some cures may be within reach.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I'm opening the liquid nitrogen freezer.
GUTIERREZ: They say the key is in stem cell research, developing ways for healthy cells to replace damaged cells.
Adult stem cell research has a proven track record in the treatment of some diseases, like blood cancers, but there are limitations. For example, no success so far in developing better treatments for diabetes.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: These are the actual vials of stem cells.
GUTIERREZ: It's the use of embryonic stem cells, those taken from human embryos, that has huge medical potential for curing diseases like diabetes. But some people fear the technology in this research could lead to human cloning, a debate at the heart of one of California's November ballot initiatives.
It's called Prop 71, the California Stem Cell Research and Cures Initiative.
DR. VINCE FORTANASE, PROP 71 OPPONENT: This is a cloning bill. This bill will fund cloning.
DR. LARRY GOLDSTEIN, PROP 71 SUPPORTER: They like to use the word "cloning" as a weapon to scare people.
GUTIERREZ: Prop 71 would authorize $3 billion in state funds for research which is currently excluded from federal funding. Research that would allow creation of new embryonic stem cell lines.
FORTANASE: They're being disingenuous and devious.
GUTIERREZ: Dr. Vince Fortanase leads the opposition to Proposition 71. He says this wording could pave the way for private biotech companies to develop human cloning technology at the expense of California taxpayers.
FORTANASE: What they don't tell you is the words "somatic cell nuclear transfer," which is the definition of cloning, according to the National Academy of Science.
GUTIERREZ: Dr. Larry Goldstein, a leading scientist in stem cell research, says the opposition is using scare tactics. He says current state law forbids human reproductive cloning, and the initiative clearly states there will be no funding for that purpose.
GOLDSTEIN: The technology of nuclear transfer could, in principle, be misused to try to clone a person. We don't ban technologies for fear of misuse.
GUTIERREZ: Real estate developer Robert Klein kicked in more than $2 million of his own money to back Prop 71.
ROBERT KLEIN, CHAIRMAN, PROP 71: Proposition 71 is very personal to me, because my youngest son Jordan has juvenile diabetes. And my mother is dying with Alzheimer's.
GUTIERREZ: Klein says the research underwritten by Prop 71 has the potential to cure chronic diseases.
KLEIN: Ten to 13 years worth of research on the most promising research to cure Parkinson's, Alzheimer's heart disease, diabetes, by the best scientists in the world.
TOM BORDONARO, PROP 71 OPPONENT: It's misleading. It is giving people false hope in embryonic stem cell research.
GUTIERREZ: Tom Bordonaro is a former California assemblyman.
BORDONARO: Long time no see.
GUTIERREZ: For 27 years, he's been confined to a wheelchair. He says nothing would make him happier than if a cure was found for spinal cord injuries like his own, but he says Prop 71 isn't the answer. BORDONARO: It's a total boondoggle for venture capitalists who don't want to spend the private dollars in an area that is a long shot for any type of human treatment.
GUTIERREZ: Robert Klein says he wants society to take the chance to offer his son and other families a ray of hope.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
ZAHN: And that was Thelma Gutierrez helping us better understand the national debate.
It is impossible to tell exactly how many voters will actually show up 29 days from today, but this year a record number of new voters have registered. What happens if they actually show up to vote? That when we come back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
ZAHN: A huge wildcard in the race for the White House is the hundreds of thousands of new voters both sides claim they've signed up. No one knows exactly how many, but those new voters could be the difference on November 2. And the competition for them is going down to the wire.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
BRUCE SPRINGSTEEN, MUSICIAN: We're here tonight to fight for a government that is open, rational, forward-looking and humane.
ZAHN: From rock concerts to county fairs, an unprecedented push is under way to register voters.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Anyone need to register for the first time?
ZAHN: In 16 states, including crucial battlegrounds of Michigan, Florida, Ohio and Pennsylvania, the registration deadline is today.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I think it's very important to vote. I want my vote to count.
ZAHN: As the cards pile in, election officials are feeling the heat, working double shifts and hire extra people to keep up.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Anyone want a voter sticker to sign?
ZAHN: It is serious business. Democrats and Republicans have spent millions to get out the vote.
Take Florida, for example. Since January, nearly 600,000 new voters have registered. Now, remember, Florida was decided by just 537 votes in 2000.
And a study by "The New York Times" shows that in Democratic areas of Ohio, new registration since January is up 250 percent over the same period in 2000. By comparison, in Republican areas, it has increased just 25 percent.
With just four weeks to go to election day, it is impossible to know just how many new voters there will be and how many of them will actually vote.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
ZAHN: And one of the blocs of voters up for grabs, young Americans. Our Jason Carroll now on how both parties are trying to win the youth vote.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Choose!
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Or lose!
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Or lose!
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Or lose!
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Choose!
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Or lose!
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Or lose!
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Or lose!
JASON CARROLL, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): It's politics for the MTV generation. It's "choose or lose."
"Vote or Die," if you're P. Diddy.
P. DIDDY, ENTREPRENEUR: That's all young people wanted, was somebody to give them to it honestly. Vote or die. People have died for you to have this right to vote.
CARROLL: Or check out Drew Barrymore's documentary on voting.
DREW BARRYMORE, ACTRESS: Every vote counts. You realize how individual, how equal, how beautiful that is. It is so empowering.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Get up and vote.
CARROLL: Over the years, rock the vote draped an American flag on a pop star. Now hip-hop summits use rap stars.
RUSSELL SIMMONS, FOUNDER, DEF JAM RECORDS: The hip-hop community is going to pick the next president.
CARROLL: Lots of optimism and hype, but history shows it takes more than slogans and more than celebrities to get young people to vote.
SIMMONS: This ain't 2000. UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I understand that.
SIMMONS: I'm just wanting you to know.
CARROLL: And politicians know it. And that's why this year Republicans...
ALLISON AKELE, BUSH SUPPORTER: I'm Allison Akele. I'm 20 years old and a George W. Bush supporter.
CARROLL: ... and Democrats...
JANE FLEMING, KERRY SUPPORT: I'm Jane Fleming. I'm 31 years old, and I'm the executive director of the Young Democrats of America.
CARROLL: ... have gone back to basics to get young voters.
FLEMING: What's going to get young people to the polls is the same thing that gets senior citizens to the polls, right? It's that a politician or another peer talking to them about the issues they care about.
AKELE: Just registering to vote isn't going to get you out to the polls, but if we're actively engaging you, and going door to door, and really feeling a reason for the cause, then students are going to start to vote.
CARROLL: In the swing state of Pennsylvania...
AKELE: Are you guys interested in being College Republicans?
CARROLL: ... the College Republican National Committee is at it, both on and off campus...
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Are you guys registered to vote?
CARROLL: ... talking to potential voters one on one.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Pennsylvania?
CARROLL: Not as sexy or as slick as a celebrity-driven campaign, but it's how think found teenagers like Shawn Flynn.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Originally I was registered in New York and I planned on voting in New York as an absentee, but I felt my vote would count a lot more in the swing state of Pennsylvania.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: College D (ph) down to the R6, and you guys are good to go.
CARROLL: Democrats are working the same way in Pennsylvania.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Do you mind if I ask you who you're voting for?
CARROLL: Going door-to-door, selling young people on voting. It's not easy.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We want to be young. We want to be carefree. We don't want to think about politics, because that means responsibility.
FLEMING: Young people don't vote, politicians don't talk to them.
AKELE: Politicians ignore the students because they don't vote.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We refer to that as the cycle of neglect, and we're trying to return it to the cycle of respect.
CARROLL: Bruce Speake (ph) heads the field office of the New Voters Project in Wisconsin.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I think it's time to go out to our sites here in the United States.
CARROLL: They say they are nonpartisan and only interested in getting young people to vote in Wisconsin, another swing state.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Do you have a second to register to vote?
CARROLL: They're on campuses, at the local Wal-Mart.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You don't vote, ma'am? Why's that?
CARROLL: And shopping malls, where they find many people like Laura.
LAURA BLAKE, UNDECIDED: My name is Laura Blake, I'm 20 years old and I'm not too sure if I'm going to vote yet.
Our world relies on, you know, who's president and whatnot and I, you know, I just don't follow who's up for what, and who's against this.
CARROLL: These three decided they will vote.
(on camera) What other issues would you like the candidates to talk about that they're not addressing?
NICOLE NELSON, STUDENT: I think it's imperative for them to let us have some reassurance that when we step out of these doors with a degree that we're going to be able to put that into use.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Getting scholarships and grants and things like that, I think that needs to be -- they need to differentiate their opinions more a little bit on that.
CARROLL: With youth, there is optimism. Fight the cycle of neglect despite the poor voting record. This election, most young people say they will make a difference.
Jason Carroll, CNN. (END VIDEOTAPE)
ZAHN: And according to a recent poll by MTV, three out of four young people are registered to vote in November. Eight out of 10 plan to cast a vote. MTV has been working hard to get young people registered. The goal of it is "Choose or Lose." The campaign is to sign up some 20 million young voters.
And joining me now is MTV News correspondent Gideon Yago. Good to see you.
You look at the numbers, and you can dazzle us with the numbers, but you've got to be realistic. In the year 2000, only 37 percent of kids between the ages of 18 and 24 bothered to vote.
Why is it going to be any different this time?
GIDEON YAGO, MTV NEWS CORRESPONDENT: Well, because you have a constellation of issues out there right now that are really directly affecting young people in very powerful, appreciable ways.
ZAHN: OK. Explain that to an ancient mother of three.
YAGO: Sure.
ZAHN: What are they most concerned about.
YAGO: You've got -- you've got a kid who's, let's say 18, and the No. 1 employer in this country is the military. Chances are they're fighting in a war that they didn't have a chance to vote for.
If they're coming out of college and they have a college degree that you did not necessarily need to get to get a place at the table in the good job market, they're being racked with tens to hundreds of thousands of dollars in debt. And then they're entering this soft job market.
So it's a lot of things that they directly feel. And they feel directly affected by.
And the idea is that there is this perception out there that young people don't vote in large numbers. If we can turn that around, politicians will pay attention to them and start incorporating them a little bit more in the political discourse.
ZAHN: But that's a key issue to some, if politicians pay close attention to them. A lot of kids tell me they feel disenfranchised, because they don't think these politicians...
YAGO: Sure.
ZAHN: ... speak their language. And they're also turned off by the rhetoric of both campaigns.
YAGO: Absolutely.
ZAHN: They say, quit spinning us. They hate the process.
YAGO: But it's also the fact that a lot of politicians, I think, won't take it down to a young voter or a first-time voter's level. Maybe they're not familiar with a way that a candidate voted four years ago or eight years ago or what their stances are, you know, today, in regards to certain policies.
They want to be talked to and taken seriously as peers and as equals. And I don't think either of -- either of the candidates have done an exceptional job of sort of bridging that divide.
ZAHN: And do you think either campaign has done a very good job of really convincing these kids why they should get out and vote?
YAGO: It doesn't matter.
ZAHN: And why the vote will make any difference?
YAGO: It doesn't matter. The kids have convinced themselves, and I think that's the most important thing, is that this year, you have a situation where it's important for young people to vote, because they feel like if they give it a chance, maybe they'll see a return, maybe they'll see an effect.
But right now they're feeling politics affecting their lives and they want to do something about it. And if that breaks that chicken and the egg cycle, then inevitably you're going to have to see politicians come and walk up to young voters and say, "I need you to be a part of my campaign. I need you to throw your support, because I need your muscle," because there's so many of them out there.
ZAHN: Well, you certainly have done your part trying to convince young people to vote. Good luck.
YAGO: Thank you.
ZAHN: I know where you'll be November 2.
Gideon Yago, thanks for your time.
ZAHN: The candidates are giving it all before their next encounter on Friday. Strategists from both parties duke it out right here when we come back.
And remember, our "Voting Booth" is open right now: "How much will tomorrow night's vice presidential debate influence you?" Cast your vote now at our web site, CNN.com/Paula and have your say.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)
RUSH LIMBAUGH, RADIO TALK SHOW HOST: Senator Kerry, show us in your records, sir, your 20-year record where anything that you're saying you want to do notice -- I don't care, Senator, if it's foreign policy or you want to talk about domestic policy. You show me anywhere in your voting record where what you voted for is anything like what you say you want to do today.
(END AUDIO CLIP)
ZAHN: Well, that's what Rush Limbaugh wants to hear from Senator Kerry on Friday night, but before that happens, the vice presidential candidates square off tomorrow.
It's going to be a very busy week for political pros like our own, Republican Mike Murphy and Democrat Bill Carrick. Good to see the two of you again.
MIKE MURPHY, REPUBLICAN STRATEGIST: Good to be here.
ZAHN: All right, Mike, take us inside the Cheney camp tonight. What's he doing?
MURPHY: Raw meat, he is eating raw meat getting ready for Tuesday. I think you're going to see Dick Cheney on the offensive. I think the contrast will be Cheney the adult, versus Kerry (sic) kind of the child, so to speak, of world affairs, light on experience, high on courtroom thematics.
If you want a guy who can work a courtroom to get a lot of money for somebody who spilled coffee on themselves go with Edwards. If you want somebody who's ready for a very complicated world, where a lot of people want to do in America, you're going to want Cheney.
And that's, I think, the contrast you're going to see in that debate. And I think that's where Cheney ought to go.
ZAHN: Bill, you and I can almost script the questions that John Edwards is going to be asked tomorrow night, particularly when it comes to his lack of experience. What does he have to do?
BILL CARRICK, DEMOCRATIC STRATEGIST: Well, I think he's got to show he has substance. I think he's got to show he understands foreign policy in particular.
But I think he's also going to show that he's somebody who's very articulate. He's also going to be a very empathetic person. And he's going to really take it to Cheney on, particularly, domestic issues and make the president explain something that he doesn't do well with, talking about domestic policy.
ZAHN: All right. Mike, let's take a subset of that. We've been hearing over and over again today that Edwards is going to come out swinging on the issue of Halliburton, a company that the vice president once ran, a company that's gotten a bunch of no-bid contracts during this Iraq reconstruction process.
How vulnerable is the vice president on the Halliburton issue?
MURPHY: I think he's going to brush him off like a troublesome mosquito. I mean, I think the Edwards strategy is to try to make the debate about small, cynical issues, try to misrepresent the Halliburton thing. CARRICK: Nothing cynical about $2 million from Halliburton while he was vice president.
MURPHY: Halliburton, those guys are trying to rebuild the country (ph).
Again, they're going to want to take it down to the mud with some kind of mud slinging.
CARRICK: No mud. No.
MURPHY: Cheney's going to try to take it to the big picture, which is who do you trust to be safer? And I think the question in people's mind at the end of the debate will be if there was one big poker game with the bad guys for the security of the United States, who do you want playing for us? Dick Cheney or John Edwards? I think that pretty much sums up the difference.
ZAHN: Mike, you were trying to get in there on the Halliburton issue, but you concede that there has been nothing that has been proven to be illegal with any of the transactions with Halliburton, although there are questions being asked about some overcharges. That's the bottom line, right?
CARRICK: I would ask the vice president one question tomorrow night: "If you had it to do over again, would you take $2 million in deferred compensation from Halliburton while you're sitting in the vice president's office?"
He's made more money from Halliburton while he's vice president than he's gotten in his salary.
ZAHN: Of, come on. Didn't he negotiate that before he took the vice presidency, Bill?
CARRICK: He negotiated -- it's just improper for him to be sitting there taking a $2 million from Halliburton while they're the biggest contractor in the reconstruction of Iraq.
MURPHY: This is what the Democrats, and it's unfortunate.
CARRICK: It's not unfortunate.
ZAHN: Aren't both of you guys guilty of that in your camp?
MURPHY: We want a policy debate because we're in a troubled world with an international terrorist conspiracy.
ZAHN: All right. Hang on. I can't hear both of you talk at the same time.
MURPHY: My point would be here we are in a troubled time in the world, where we ought to have a serious policy debate. And these guys want to take cheap ethics shots like it's a city council race in Cleveland or something. This debate ought to be about the big picture, not about some silly trumped up charge can the Democrats have about Halliburton. Halliburton -- we can get out the Clinton record and go through corruption for a seven-hour debate.
But that's not what the country wants to hear. They want to know how you're going to make the country safer. They want to know about a guy who's been in a Senate about an hour and 15 minutes before he was on a police radio most of his career can actually do to handle a difficult world and a complicated national security situation.
The burden is on Edwards to prove he can play major league ball on big issues.
ZAHN: How much could John Edwards, Bill, hurt John Kerry's momentum if he doesn't perform well tomorrow night?
CARRICK: I think the Bush people desperately need for Cheney to be a speed bump tomorrow night.
ZAHN: All right. But what does your candidate got to do?
CARRICK: I think he's going to take on Dick Cheney, and if any -- Dick Cheney tries all this stuff about trial lawyers that Mike's tried, he'll end up in the same situation that the guy who lost his Senate seat tried.
ZAHN: But, Bill, a lot of Democrats have told me they were very disappointed that Edwards has not played the traditional attack role over the last month. They think he's more concerned about running in 2008 and protecting his hide than he is about protecting John Kerry right now.
First of all, do you agree with that?
CARRICK: Well, you know, I think he had a role to play, was working the smaller markets, working the local media. I think now after Labor Day he's been much more aggressive.
And I think you can be respectful, but be very aggressive with Dick Cheney tomorrow night. I think you're going to see John Edwards take it to Dick Cheney on the failures of the Bush administration, particularly on domestic policy.
ZAHN: Mike, let me ask you this. A lot of Republicans are telling me they're concerned about Dick Cheney being unleashed. And they feel during the last month or so, his appearances have been choreographed and he's been highly reliant upon notes. And they think that could be a problem tomorrow night.
MURPHY: We'll see what happens. I have a lot of faith in him. I think tomorrow he's going to do really, really well.
I got a kick out of my friend Carrick's bit about he's working the small towns. They couldn't be any smaller. I mean, for some reason they don't want to frame, you know, their vice presidential debate around this guy. And I don't quite understand why.
I will say this. I think if Carrick's candidate, Gephardt, was on the ticket, he'd be doing a lot better. I think he'd be on an economic message in the Midwest where the election can swing.
So I think what happened was Kerry picked a V.P. based on who he thought would play politically and look like a smart choice the day after the convention and instead he's got kind of a dud.
This is an important debate. You're right about the speed bump. We'll see what happens.
CARRICK: Paula -- Paula, I'll tell you one thing we know: John Edwards' favorable/unfavorable ratings are much, much higher going into this debate than Dick Cheney's. There's a reservoir of goodwill about John Edwards.
Dick Cheney has become the Darth Vader of American politics. And tomorrow night if we have a dark brooding presence of Dick Cheney, the American people aren't going to like it.
ZAHN: Mike, you laugh, yet poll after poll shows the vice president has some of the highest negatives of any vice president that's ever run for reelection, right around 40 percent.
MURPHY: I guess I just have to accept Kerry's arguments that the expectations are clearly Edwards will walk away with the debate.
CARRICK: Come on. You just can't admit he's the best debater in the world.
MURPHY: I'm excited about this debate.
ZAHN: All right. Ten minute -- 10-second predictions? Carrick?
CARRICK: I think -- I think John Edwards is going to do very, very well tomorrow night. I think he's going to take it to the vice president. I think...
ZAHN: Your time's up. That's 11 seconds.
CARRICK: He's going to shake things up tomorrow night.
ZAHN: Mike Murphy?
MURPHY: Great week for the Bush/Cheney ticket. Tuesday and Friday we take the race back.
ZAHN: We're going to call you guys on this come the end of the week. Bill Carrick, Mike Murphy, thanks.
MURPHY: Thanks.
ZAHN: And tomorrow night at this time, Dick Cheney and John Edwards will be minutes away from doing battle in their only debate. They may think they're putting their best faces forward, but how they get -- Jeanne Moos offers her advice, straight out of the break.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
ZAHN: Well, we've hit that time in our program where we turn our attention to something just as important as substance, it seems: style. It is time for a vice presidential debate preview from our own Jeanne Moos.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
JEANNE MOOS, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Prepare for mouth- to-mouth combat. Toothy grin versus slightly twisted grimace, a demeanor that attracts detractors on the web.
"The New York Daily News" likened Dick Cheney to Darth Vader.
JAMES EARL JONES, VOICE OF DARTH VADER: Don't make me destroy you.
MOOS: And John Edwards to Robin.
BURT WARD, ACTOR: No policeman is going to give the Batmobile a ticket.
MOOS: The boy wonder has hair that's flattered by the breeze, while not even a hurricane could disturb Dick Cheney's hairdo.
But that leaves Edwards with the disparaging nickname, the Breck Girl. Rush Limbaugh's web site even features a composite. Who knew good hair could end up being political split ends?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: What do you think of the close relationship that Senator Kerry and Edwards share?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What are you implying? That he's a beautiful man with the hair of a pony?
MOOS: A pony pitted against a Clydesdale.
DICK CHENEY, VICE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: People keep telling me that Senator Edwards got picked for his good looks, his charm, because he's sexy and has great hair. I said, "How do you think I got the job?"
MOOS: While "People" magazine once named Edwards sexiest politician, "New York Magazine" once proposed a makeover for Dick Cheney, consulting experts who recommended removing bags from under his eyes, trimming his waistline, getting porcelain veneers on his teeth, and new angular eyeglasses.
We can only imagine how the vice president would respond.
CHENEY: Enough foolishness.
MOOS: When it comes to verbal fencing, Darth Vader's powers could render a debate opponent speechless. UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Vader, release him.
JONES: As you wish.
MOOS: When Darth meets the boy wonder, don't expect a powwow, just a pow!
(END VIDEOTAPE)
ZAHN: All right. Jeanne, wait until you see what we do to you when you run for public office.
The results of our "Voting Book" question right after this.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
ZAHN: Back now tonight. "Voting Booth" results. We asked you, how much will tomorrow's vice presidential debate influence your vote? Eighteen percent of you said it would change your vote; 82 percent said it would not. This, of course, isn't a scientific poll, more of a snapshot of opinions from those of you who vote on our Web site. Keep it coming.
Tomorrow, the next big event in the campaign for president, our special pre-debate coverage of the only face-off between Vice President Dick Cheney and Senator John Edwards begins live at 8:00 p.m. Eastern from Cleveland. Then on Friday, we're on the road again, the second presidential debate in St. Louis. And again, our live special coverage gets under way in 8 p.m. Eastern. And I will be moderating live townhall meetings in four key battleground states. The first is this Thursday night, October 7, from Racine, Wisconsin. And then on October 14, we'll be in Bucks County, Pennsylvania. October 21, in Clark County, Ohio. And then on November 1, the night before the election, we find ourselves in Orlando, Florida.
But even if you're not there, you can take part by submitting a question for our townhall meetings. So go to our Web site right now -- now, you try saying "Web site right now" really fast -- it's cnn.com/paula, and tell us what you want to ask the Bush and Kerry campaign.
Thanks so much for joining us tonight. Hope you'll be back with us tomorrow night from Cleveland. "LARRY KING LIVE" is next. Have a good night.
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Aired October 4, 2004 - 20:00 ET
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PAULA ZAHN, HOST: Good evening, and welcome. Thanks so much for joining us for prime time politics tonight.
Tomorrow they get their one and only chance. Cheney, the seasoned warrior. Edwards, the convincing young trial lawyer.
Tonight, the running mate debate is taking on new importance.
And could we be looking at an especially large turnout in this election? Across the country in churches and in shopping malls, there is a last-ditch registration effort as both parties scramble for the votes that could lead to victory.
But first, another twist in the latest polls that lights a fire beneath both candidates. Twenty-nine days to election today, and the race is now neck and neck. Before the debate, President Bush had opened up an eight-point lead among likely voters, but what a difference one debate makes. Today among likely votes the race is tied at 49 percent, making the remaining presidential debates this Friday and the following Wednesday even more crucial.
That's also true of tomorrow night's debate between John Edwards and Dick Cheney. Both men were out of sight today making last-minute preparations, leaving Senator Kerry and President Bush squarely in the spotlight.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
ZAHN (voice-over): The power of incumbency. Four weeks and a day before the election, president Bush, came to the battleground state of Iowa, to sign a bill extending tax cuts for the middle class.
GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Today with my signature, federal law will extend vital tax relief for millions of American families and ad momentum to our growing economy.
ZAHN: At the same time, in the battleground state of New Hampshire, Senator Kerry was talking about raising some taxes and lowering others.
SEN. JOHN KERRY (D-MA), PRESIDENTIAL NOMINEE: All of this is choices. You can't have the health care plan we need for America for nothing, and I'm not telling you it's for nothing. And we're going to pay for it by rolling back George Bush's tax cuts just for the people who earn more than $200,000 a year. Everybody else in America, 98 percent of America is going to get a tax cut under my plan. ZAHN: With polls showing the race dead-even, you can sense the new energy and urgency in the way both candidates move, attack and draw contrasts.
BUSH: He has a system that's creeping toward Hillary-care.
ZAHN: This week both campaigns are emphasizing health care and taxes, domestic issues that are the focus of the remaining two debates. Even the commercials reflect this new phase of the campaign.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No relief there from the marriage penalty?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: More taxes because I'm married. What were they thinking?
ANNOUNCER: Three hundred-fifty times higher taxes for locals in Congress and John Kerry.
KERRY: It's time to lift the barriers blocking the stem cell research that could treat or cure diseases, like Parkinson's.
ZAHN: Kerry is now putting a big emphasize on his support for stem cell research. National polls show a large majority of Americans support it as well. But it's a touchy subjects for Catholics and evangelicals, among others,because it involves the destruction of fertilized human embryos, in the hope of treating incurable diseases. President Bush approved limited federal funding for stem cell research in 2001. Kerry brought along actor and Parkinson's disease sufferer, Michael J. Fox to argue for more.
MICHAEL J. FOX, ACTOR: He decided to allow it to go forward, but he so restricted the stem cell lines available to us, that it was kind of like he gave us a car and no gas.
KERRY: Now we stand at the edge of the next great frontier, but instead of leading the way, we're stuck on the sideline.
ZAHN: A Bush campaign spokesman called Kerry's attack baseless and dishonest. Expect both candidates and their running mates to clash over the issues at the remaining debates.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
ZAHN: Neck and neck, with 29 days and three debates to go. Joining me from their respective headquarters in Washington area are Bush campaign manager, Ken Mehlman, and Kerry campaign senior adviser, Joe Lockhart.
Great to have both of you here tonight.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Thanks. Good to be her, Paula.
ZAHN: So, Ken, I'm going to start with you this evening. You no doubt are familiar with the latest polls here, showing John Kerry now in a dead heat with the president, also gaining significant momentum when it comes to issues of Iraq and the war on terrorism. What happened to the president?
KEN MEHLMAN, BUSH CAMPAIGN MANAGER: Well, I think we've always said it would be a close race. There are a number of new polls out today. The CNN/Gallup is one of them. There's an ABC News/"Washington Post," that has the president up five points. But we've always planned for a close race. I think that Senator Kerry has gained a few points in the past couple days, but both sides, I think, have always said this will be a close election and that's what we expected. This president is going to win the elections. Because I think on the critical issues, the war on terror and the economy, the president has the right approach, and I think the American people are going to reject Senator Kerry's approach.
ZAHN: We're going to put up on the screen now, more polling information on those two specific issues. And Joe Lockhart, as you can see, John Kerry has gained on the issue of the economy, but the president's still ahead of him on handling Iraq and terrorism by margins of 7 and 17 percent.
How do you make a dent in those numbers?
JOE LOCKHART, KERRY CAMPAIGN SENIOR ADVISER: Well, we've made a significant dent in those numbers in the first debate. I think the second and third we'll keep going in this direction. The public -- it's sort of the wrong question, though. When you ask the public if they think John Kerry can handle the war on terrorism, handle the war on Iraq, correct the mistakes of this administration in Iraq, you know, a good majority of the country says yes.
ZAHN: But they still give the president significant benefit of the doubt there on those numbers.
LOCKHART: Well, I think an incumbent will always enjoy some advantage on issues of national security. The bottom line though, is they're now looking at John Kerry as someone who can do this job. And then if expand it to some other numbers, they really think that he can do a much better job on the economy and health care and energy independence. These are all issues. I mean, we take a different view I think than the administration, which is the public expects us to do a lot. They expect us to keep the country safe, fight the war on terror, and turn the economy around for the middle class. This economy has been miserable for the middle class over the last four years and the public expects more.
ZAHN: Ken, jump in here.
MEHLMAN: Well, Paula -- Paula, I think what you saw in the debate, was a clear contrast between someone that was committed to winning the spin cycle and somebody who wanted to win the global war on terror. And while John Kerry did well in the short term in the spin cycle, I think the debate raised a lot of concerns.
What is this global test that the commander in chief has to meet before he defends America? ZAHN: All right. All right. Ken, to be perfectly fair, though, people are taking that sentence out of context. Didn't he also make it clear in that very same sentence that a commander in chief has to have the power to take preemptive action?
MEHLMAN: I don't think he did make it clear. And I think if you look...
ZAHN: But he said it.
MEHLMAN: But I think, if you look at the larger context of Kerry's troubling opposition to the $87 billion for our troops.
ZAHN: But Ken, I'm talking about those two specific sentences in his speech.
MEHLMAN: If you look at those two sentences, I found was very troubling. He first said one thing, and then said something else which totally contradicted it. And then if you look at his overall record, it's very troubling and very concerning, because the last thing we want, as we face a global war on terror, is commander in chief who will either ,A, give mix messages or b, approach this stuff from a political perspective. Our enemies need to know, our allies need to know, the Iraqi people need to know, and our troops need to know that when the commander in chief says something, he means it and you can stick with it. They know that from the president and they just don't know it from Senator Kerry.
ZAHN: If we are going to honestly parse words, John Kerry did use the word "global test" at the end of that sentence or two, was that a mistake for him to have done?
And do you understand why people are interpreting it the way Ken is tonight?
LOCKHART: I understand that's why the Bush campaign is interpreting it that way, because it's a pattern. They take half of a sentence and they make it into something it's not. And they do that for two reasons. One is they don't want to take on the real John Kerry, and two they can't defend their record.
MEHLMAN: President says look out for our national security first, then you try to build a coalition around it. That's very different from saying you will meet a global test before you defend America. And the only pattern that we've seen in this campaign and throughout this unfortunate over the last year and a half during Senator Kerry's campaign, has been Senator Kerry saying whatever the audience wants to hear. And that is what the commander in chief needs to do when we face the threat of terrorism. That's the question.
ZAHN: Gentleman going to move you on to the vice presidential debates tomorrow night.
Joe Lockhart, how does candidate Edwards defend himself against the charge that is most certain to come that he's inexperienced and does not deserve to be vice president of the United States? MEHLMAN: All he has to do is look at the 30 years of experience that Dick Cheney has and say sometimes experience isn't such a good thing for America. I think his task in this debate is to be a strong advocate for John Kerry, which a vice presidential candidate should do. And secondly do what John Kerry did in the debate, no the first time in a long time, hold this administration accountable for the failure in Iraq, failure abroad and failure with the domestic issue, with rising health care cost, the worst job creations since Herbert Hoover, and everything else on the domestic agenda.
ZAHN: Ken, coming back on the vice president's challenge tomorrow night, you hear a lot of grumblings out there in Democratic circles, that he's going to be attacked for having run Halliburton at CEO at one point, a company of course, that's gotten some no-bid contracts in Iraq. And a company that's also being investigated for overcharging the government for work.
MEHLMAN: Paula, the vice president's an incredible public servant. He has great judgment, and that's why the president made him vice president. You can expect the vice president talk about this administration's leadership, talk about how the American people as the 9/11 Commission pointed out, are safer than we were. But still we need to keep moving forward to make us safer. To talk about what we've done on the economy, but we can expect a strong performance by Senator John Edwards. He wasn't chosen because of his legislative accomplishments, because he doesn't have a lot. And he wasn't chosen because of his judgment, because he hasn't spent a lot of time in office.
ZAHN: So what do you think he was chosen for, Ken.
MEHLMAN: He was chosen because he's a great advocate and he's made a lot of money as a personal injury trial lawyer. And I think we can expect to hear from Senator Edwards a good advocacy, and he'll be very glib, very effective, and he'll do a good job, I'm sure, but the question is at the end of the debate, will he answer the credibility gap that the Kerry/Edwards ticket has, or will they take the necessary steps to keep America safe during this global threat and the credibility gap on the economy. The American people don't want higher taxes, more red tape, and more lawsuits and that's the Kerry/Edwards strategy.
ZAHN: We've got to leave it there this evening. I hope you guys get some sleep in the next 29 days. Not much, I'm sure. Appreciate your time.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
We've got lots more politics to come. Getting the edge in a razor-close race.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Make sure you're registered to vote.
ZAHN: Both parties sign up thousands of young voters. And both try to draw true believers to their cause.
And a confrontation of cultures, ideas, and styles. One honed in the boardroom, the other in the courtroom.
SEN. JOHN EDWARDS (D-NC), VICE PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: These people need to be held responsible.
ZAHN: What to expect from tomorrow's clash in Cleveland.
And our voting booth question, "how much will tomorrow night's vice presidential debate influence you?" Visit our Web site at CNN.com/paula and let us know. We'll have the results at the end of the hour and much more as PAULA ZAHN NOW prime-time politics continues.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
ZAHN: With our latest poll showing the presidential race in a dead heat, tomorrow's vice presidential debate becomes so much more important than it was just a few days ago. John Edwards, freshman senator, veteran trial lawyer and charmer of juries versus Dick Cheney, vice president, former defense secretary with the polished manner of a wise and reasonable grandfather. Each has his own weaknesses. Our Candy Crowley looks ahead to tomorrow's clash in Cleveland.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
CANDY CROWLEY, CNN SR. POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): It may not prove pivotal. It will almost surely be pretty darn interesting. The silver-tongued southerner who sugarcoats his attack dog role with a smile and a drawl.
EDWARDS: This president needs to get out of fantasy land and come back to reality.
CROWLEY: Versus the unflappable westerner who pivots from avuncular to acid without changing tone.
DICK CHENEY, VICE PRESIDENT: John Kerry gives every indication that his repeated efforts to cast and recast and redefine the war on terror.
CROWLEY: Cheney is the elder by a dozen years, the more experienced by decades. Former White House chief of staff, former congressman, former secretary of defense, boardroom big shot of Halliburton in the Clinton years and arguably the most powerful vice president in history. Edwards is a first-term senator fresh off a career as a successful personal injury trial lawyer.
EDWARDS: My leadership would come from out here in the real world.
CROWLEY: Edwards hopes to counter Cheney's experience with energy, Cheney's gravitas with the common touch and an ability to move voters in much the same way he surely moved juries.
EDWARDS: Somewhere in America a mother sits at her kitchen table. She can't sleep because she's worried. She can't pay her bills.
CROWLEY: He was named "PEOPLE" magazine's sexiest politician. Cheney was not duly noted with a reinforced the experience gap.
CHENEY: Senator Edwards, I shouldn't call him John, I don't know him that well, but Senator Edwards, of course, it is alleged got his job because he's charming, sexy, good-looking and has great hair. I said, how do you think I got the job? Why do they laugh when I say that?
CROWLEY: Cheney and Edwards arrive at the debate with polar opposite challenges. For all his gravitas, Cheney needs to guard against being too dark.
CHENEY: Because if we make the wrong choice then the danger is that we'll get hit again.
CROWLEY: And for all his charm, Edwards cannot be seen as too light.
EDWARDS: I've come to the conclusion that what George Bush really believes is he believes that he's like Ken Lay and America's his Enron.
CROWLEY: Now, about vice presidential debates...
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Senator, I served with Jack Kennedy, I knew Jack Kennedy. Jack Kennedy was a friend of mine. Senator, you're no Jack Kennedy.
CROWLEY: Lloyd Bentsen cleaned Dan Quayle's clock that night in October of '88, a month later Quayle was elected vice president of the United States. In fact, no paragraph in history tells of a vice presidential debate turning an election. Still history books are made for asterisks and campaigns are measured by daily ups and downs. A strong Cheney performance could put a placeholder in the polls until President Bush can redeem himself from a less than stellar first debate and a good showing from John Edwards would put more wind behind John Kerry.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
ZAHN: And Candy Crowley joins us now from Cleveland, as does senior White House correspondent John King. Good to see the two of you. So Candy, history pretty much teaches us that elections don't normally turn on these vice presidential debates. However, what could happen tomorrow night that would make the debate an exception?
CROWLEY: Cheney could be perfectly awful, and he could, you know, complete a downward spiral. John Edwards can prove himself inept on foreign policy questions, and everyone will go, well, do we really want that guy to be a heartbeat away? I don't expect either one will happen. I think it's not something you so much win. You could lose it pretty big, but both these men are very intelligent, very articulate. I don't expect that should happen. ZAHN: John, the one thing the vice president has to do is confront some pretty high negatives. Polls will tell us some of the highest in history for a vice presidential candidate hovering around some 40 percent. What is the Bush campaign most worried about?
JOHN KING, CNN SR. WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: They believe the vice president will rebut those negatives. They do expect some sharp criticism on Halliburton. They expect John Edwards to try to make Dick Cheney the poster boy of an administration the Democrats say is in the pocket of big energy and big business. They say the vice president is perfectly capable of handling himself. The one goal they have for the vice president going in is a lot of Republicans are saying, oh, boy after the president's performance last week -- the Bush campaign thinks that's overstated, thinks some Republicans are overly panicking but they want the vice president to put some adrenaline back into the Republican base, a tablesetter, if you will, for what the Bush campaign promises to be a better performance by the president in round two.
ZAHN: And Candy, we can almost see the attacks coming on John Edwards tomorrow about his lack of foreign affairs experience. This debate is already being characterized by some as Dr. Doom versus Huck Finn. How does he shed that label tomorrow night?
CROWLEY: Well, they intend to take Cheney's strength which is his experience and turn it against him and say, listen, that's 30 years in Washington, but look what he's done. The one great thing about somebody that has a record as long as Cheney's is there's a record. And they have gone through the things that the vice president said when he was secretary of defense. They have gone through some of the things he said when he was a Congressman, and that's stuff you can throw back at him. In terms of simply meeting that standard, do the American people think that this is a man who's ready to step into the presidency should he need to, they acknowledge in the Kerry camp that in fact he is going to have to meet that test, but again, this is a man who is well-schooled in the art of articulation. They believe that he knows his stuff and he will be able to meet that test.
ZAHN: John, finally you said the Bush campaign expects Cheney to confront some of these negatives, but I understand he's still smarting from all those rumors that were being circulated that he was going to be dumped from the ticket months ago. Will he confront that?
KING: Well, he didn't like that. The question might come up. If he's asked that question, I'm sure he'll be happy to answer it.
The vice president didn't like the chatter among some Republicans that somehow the vice president should look for somebody younger, somebody more energetic. He believes that he's the right man for this job. But if that question comes up, I'm sure the vice president will be happy to answer it. He says he serves at the pleasure of the president.
But the president never had such thoughts. I mean, that is one of the reasons the vice president doesn't like the chatter you sometimes get in Washington, but as Candy just noted, he's an experienced man, he's been around to see this chatter before. He's not always the subject of it, but the vice president is very comfortable in this setting. Aides say he's very much looking forward to this debate. You might be surprised to see much less criticism of John Edwards, and what the vice president will say, if given a chance, his lack of experience. His focus will be on John Kerry much more than on John Edwards.
ZAHN: All right. John King, Candy Crowley, look forward to seeing you tomorrow night in Cleveland. We will be there live with the two of you.
Although the issue of stem cell research has been around for a while, the voters have yet to have their say, but they will soon. Stem cells, science, ethics and politics when we come back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
ZAHN: And welcome back. As we saw earlier, John Kerry spent a good deal of the day talking about his support for stem cell research, and attacking President Bush's decision to limit funding for it. But it's not just an issue for this campaign. In one state, federal restrictions have led to a controversial ballot initiative. That story from Thelma Gutierrez.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
THELMA GUTIERREZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Imagine a world without disease.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Lou Gehrig's disease, Alzheimer's.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Parkinson's, heart disease.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Cure for HIV/AIDS.
GUTIERREZ: It sounds far-fetched, but many scientists believe some cures may be within reach.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I'm opening the liquid nitrogen freezer.
GUTIERREZ: They say the key is in stem cell research, developing ways for healthy cells to replace damaged cells.
Adult stem cell research has a proven track record in the treatment of some diseases, like blood cancers, but there are limitations. For example, no success so far in developing better treatments for diabetes.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: These are the actual vials of stem cells.
GUTIERREZ: It's the use of embryonic stem cells, those taken from human embryos, that has huge medical potential for curing diseases like diabetes. But some people fear the technology in this research could lead to human cloning, a debate at the heart of one of California's November ballot initiatives.
It's called Prop 71, the California Stem Cell Research and Cures Initiative.
DR. VINCE FORTANASE, PROP 71 OPPONENT: This is a cloning bill. This bill will fund cloning.
DR. LARRY GOLDSTEIN, PROP 71 SUPPORTER: They like to use the word "cloning" as a weapon to scare people.
GUTIERREZ: Prop 71 would authorize $3 billion in state funds for research which is currently excluded from federal funding. Research that would allow creation of new embryonic stem cell lines.
FORTANASE: They're being disingenuous and devious.
GUTIERREZ: Dr. Vince Fortanase leads the opposition to Proposition 71. He says this wording could pave the way for private biotech companies to develop human cloning technology at the expense of California taxpayers.
FORTANASE: What they don't tell you is the words "somatic cell nuclear transfer," which is the definition of cloning, according to the National Academy of Science.
GUTIERREZ: Dr. Larry Goldstein, a leading scientist in stem cell research, says the opposition is using scare tactics. He says current state law forbids human reproductive cloning, and the initiative clearly states there will be no funding for that purpose.
GOLDSTEIN: The technology of nuclear transfer could, in principle, be misused to try to clone a person. We don't ban technologies for fear of misuse.
GUTIERREZ: Real estate developer Robert Klein kicked in more than $2 million of his own money to back Prop 71.
ROBERT KLEIN, CHAIRMAN, PROP 71: Proposition 71 is very personal to me, because my youngest son Jordan has juvenile diabetes. And my mother is dying with Alzheimer's.
GUTIERREZ: Klein says the research underwritten by Prop 71 has the potential to cure chronic diseases.
KLEIN: Ten to 13 years worth of research on the most promising research to cure Parkinson's, Alzheimer's heart disease, diabetes, by the best scientists in the world.
TOM BORDONARO, PROP 71 OPPONENT: It's misleading. It is giving people false hope in embryonic stem cell research.
GUTIERREZ: Tom Bordonaro is a former California assemblyman.
BORDONARO: Long time no see.
GUTIERREZ: For 27 years, he's been confined to a wheelchair. He says nothing would make him happier than if a cure was found for spinal cord injuries like his own, but he says Prop 71 isn't the answer. BORDONARO: It's a total boondoggle for venture capitalists who don't want to spend the private dollars in an area that is a long shot for any type of human treatment.
GUTIERREZ: Robert Klein says he wants society to take the chance to offer his son and other families a ray of hope.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
ZAHN: And that was Thelma Gutierrez helping us better understand the national debate.
It is impossible to tell exactly how many voters will actually show up 29 days from today, but this year a record number of new voters have registered. What happens if they actually show up to vote? That when we come back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
ZAHN: A huge wildcard in the race for the White House is the hundreds of thousands of new voters both sides claim they've signed up. No one knows exactly how many, but those new voters could be the difference on November 2. And the competition for them is going down to the wire.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
BRUCE SPRINGSTEEN, MUSICIAN: We're here tonight to fight for a government that is open, rational, forward-looking and humane.
ZAHN: From rock concerts to county fairs, an unprecedented push is under way to register voters.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Anyone need to register for the first time?
ZAHN: In 16 states, including crucial battlegrounds of Michigan, Florida, Ohio and Pennsylvania, the registration deadline is today.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I think it's very important to vote. I want my vote to count.
ZAHN: As the cards pile in, election officials are feeling the heat, working double shifts and hire extra people to keep up.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Anyone want a voter sticker to sign?
ZAHN: It is serious business. Democrats and Republicans have spent millions to get out the vote.
Take Florida, for example. Since January, nearly 600,000 new voters have registered. Now, remember, Florida was decided by just 537 votes in 2000.
And a study by "The New York Times" shows that in Democratic areas of Ohio, new registration since January is up 250 percent over the same period in 2000. By comparison, in Republican areas, it has increased just 25 percent.
With just four weeks to go to election day, it is impossible to know just how many new voters there will be and how many of them will actually vote.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
ZAHN: And one of the blocs of voters up for grabs, young Americans. Our Jason Carroll now on how both parties are trying to win the youth vote.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Choose!
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Or lose!
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Or lose!
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Or lose!
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Choose!
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Or lose!
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Or lose!
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Or lose!
JASON CARROLL, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): It's politics for the MTV generation. It's "choose or lose."
"Vote or Die," if you're P. Diddy.
P. DIDDY, ENTREPRENEUR: That's all young people wanted, was somebody to give them to it honestly. Vote or die. People have died for you to have this right to vote.
CARROLL: Or check out Drew Barrymore's documentary on voting.
DREW BARRYMORE, ACTRESS: Every vote counts. You realize how individual, how equal, how beautiful that is. It is so empowering.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Get up and vote.
CARROLL: Over the years, rock the vote draped an American flag on a pop star. Now hip-hop summits use rap stars.
RUSSELL SIMMONS, FOUNDER, DEF JAM RECORDS: The hip-hop community is going to pick the next president.
CARROLL: Lots of optimism and hype, but history shows it takes more than slogans and more than celebrities to get young people to vote.
SIMMONS: This ain't 2000. UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I understand that.
SIMMONS: I'm just wanting you to know.
CARROLL: And politicians know it. And that's why this year Republicans...
ALLISON AKELE, BUSH SUPPORTER: I'm Allison Akele. I'm 20 years old and a George W. Bush supporter.
CARROLL: ... and Democrats...
JANE FLEMING, KERRY SUPPORT: I'm Jane Fleming. I'm 31 years old, and I'm the executive director of the Young Democrats of America.
CARROLL: ... have gone back to basics to get young voters.
FLEMING: What's going to get young people to the polls is the same thing that gets senior citizens to the polls, right? It's that a politician or another peer talking to them about the issues they care about.
AKELE: Just registering to vote isn't going to get you out to the polls, but if we're actively engaging you, and going door to door, and really feeling a reason for the cause, then students are going to start to vote.
CARROLL: In the swing state of Pennsylvania...
AKELE: Are you guys interested in being College Republicans?
CARROLL: ... the College Republican National Committee is at it, both on and off campus...
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Are you guys registered to vote?
CARROLL: ... talking to potential voters one on one.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Pennsylvania?
CARROLL: Not as sexy or as slick as a celebrity-driven campaign, but it's how think found teenagers like Shawn Flynn.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Originally I was registered in New York and I planned on voting in New York as an absentee, but I felt my vote would count a lot more in the swing state of Pennsylvania.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: College D (ph) down to the R6, and you guys are good to go.
CARROLL: Democrats are working the same way in Pennsylvania.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Do you mind if I ask you who you're voting for?
CARROLL: Going door-to-door, selling young people on voting. It's not easy.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We want to be young. We want to be carefree. We don't want to think about politics, because that means responsibility.
FLEMING: Young people don't vote, politicians don't talk to them.
AKELE: Politicians ignore the students because they don't vote.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We refer to that as the cycle of neglect, and we're trying to return it to the cycle of respect.
CARROLL: Bruce Speake (ph) heads the field office of the New Voters Project in Wisconsin.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I think it's time to go out to our sites here in the United States.
CARROLL: They say they are nonpartisan and only interested in getting young people to vote in Wisconsin, another swing state.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Do you have a second to register to vote?
CARROLL: They're on campuses, at the local Wal-Mart.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You don't vote, ma'am? Why's that?
CARROLL: And shopping malls, where they find many people like Laura.
LAURA BLAKE, UNDECIDED: My name is Laura Blake, I'm 20 years old and I'm not too sure if I'm going to vote yet.
Our world relies on, you know, who's president and whatnot and I, you know, I just don't follow who's up for what, and who's against this.
CARROLL: These three decided they will vote.
(on camera) What other issues would you like the candidates to talk about that they're not addressing?
NICOLE NELSON, STUDENT: I think it's imperative for them to let us have some reassurance that when we step out of these doors with a degree that we're going to be able to put that into use.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Getting scholarships and grants and things like that, I think that needs to be -- they need to differentiate their opinions more a little bit on that.
CARROLL: With youth, there is optimism. Fight the cycle of neglect despite the poor voting record. This election, most young people say they will make a difference.
Jason Carroll, CNN. (END VIDEOTAPE)
ZAHN: And according to a recent poll by MTV, three out of four young people are registered to vote in November. Eight out of 10 plan to cast a vote. MTV has been working hard to get young people registered. The goal of it is "Choose or Lose." The campaign is to sign up some 20 million young voters.
And joining me now is MTV News correspondent Gideon Yago. Good to see you.
You look at the numbers, and you can dazzle us with the numbers, but you've got to be realistic. In the year 2000, only 37 percent of kids between the ages of 18 and 24 bothered to vote.
Why is it going to be any different this time?
GIDEON YAGO, MTV NEWS CORRESPONDENT: Well, because you have a constellation of issues out there right now that are really directly affecting young people in very powerful, appreciable ways.
ZAHN: OK. Explain that to an ancient mother of three.
YAGO: Sure.
ZAHN: What are they most concerned about.
YAGO: You've got -- you've got a kid who's, let's say 18, and the No. 1 employer in this country is the military. Chances are they're fighting in a war that they didn't have a chance to vote for.
If they're coming out of college and they have a college degree that you did not necessarily need to get to get a place at the table in the good job market, they're being racked with tens to hundreds of thousands of dollars in debt. And then they're entering this soft job market.
So it's a lot of things that they directly feel. And they feel directly affected by.
And the idea is that there is this perception out there that young people don't vote in large numbers. If we can turn that around, politicians will pay attention to them and start incorporating them a little bit more in the political discourse.
ZAHN: But that's a key issue to some, if politicians pay close attention to them. A lot of kids tell me they feel disenfranchised, because they don't think these politicians...
YAGO: Sure.
ZAHN: ... speak their language. And they're also turned off by the rhetoric of both campaigns.
YAGO: Absolutely.
ZAHN: They say, quit spinning us. They hate the process.
YAGO: But it's also the fact that a lot of politicians, I think, won't take it down to a young voter or a first-time voter's level. Maybe they're not familiar with a way that a candidate voted four years ago or eight years ago or what their stances are, you know, today, in regards to certain policies.
They want to be talked to and taken seriously as peers and as equals. And I don't think either of -- either of the candidates have done an exceptional job of sort of bridging that divide.
ZAHN: And do you think either campaign has done a very good job of really convincing these kids why they should get out and vote?
YAGO: It doesn't matter.
ZAHN: And why the vote will make any difference?
YAGO: It doesn't matter. The kids have convinced themselves, and I think that's the most important thing, is that this year, you have a situation where it's important for young people to vote, because they feel like if they give it a chance, maybe they'll see a return, maybe they'll see an effect.
But right now they're feeling politics affecting their lives and they want to do something about it. And if that breaks that chicken and the egg cycle, then inevitably you're going to have to see politicians come and walk up to young voters and say, "I need you to be a part of my campaign. I need you to throw your support, because I need your muscle," because there's so many of them out there.
ZAHN: Well, you certainly have done your part trying to convince young people to vote. Good luck.
YAGO: Thank you.
ZAHN: I know where you'll be November 2.
Gideon Yago, thanks for your time.
ZAHN: The candidates are giving it all before their next encounter on Friday. Strategists from both parties duke it out right here when we come back.
And remember, our "Voting Booth" is open right now: "How much will tomorrow night's vice presidential debate influence you?" Cast your vote now at our web site, CNN.com/Paula and have your say.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)
RUSH LIMBAUGH, RADIO TALK SHOW HOST: Senator Kerry, show us in your records, sir, your 20-year record where anything that you're saying you want to do notice -- I don't care, Senator, if it's foreign policy or you want to talk about domestic policy. You show me anywhere in your voting record where what you voted for is anything like what you say you want to do today.
(END AUDIO CLIP)
ZAHN: Well, that's what Rush Limbaugh wants to hear from Senator Kerry on Friday night, but before that happens, the vice presidential candidates square off tomorrow.
It's going to be a very busy week for political pros like our own, Republican Mike Murphy and Democrat Bill Carrick. Good to see the two of you again.
MIKE MURPHY, REPUBLICAN STRATEGIST: Good to be here.
ZAHN: All right, Mike, take us inside the Cheney camp tonight. What's he doing?
MURPHY: Raw meat, he is eating raw meat getting ready for Tuesday. I think you're going to see Dick Cheney on the offensive. I think the contrast will be Cheney the adult, versus Kerry (sic) kind of the child, so to speak, of world affairs, light on experience, high on courtroom thematics.
If you want a guy who can work a courtroom to get a lot of money for somebody who spilled coffee on themselves go with Edwards. If you want somebody who's ready for a very complicated world, where a lot of people want to do in America, you're going to want Cheney.
And that's, I think, the contrast you're going to see in that debate. And I think that's where Cheney ought to go.
ZAHN: Bill, you and I can almost script the questions that John Edwards is going to be asked tomorrow night, particularly when it comes to his lack of experience. What does he have to do?
BILL CARRICK, DEMOCRATIC STRATEGIST: Well, I think he's got to show he has substance. I think he's got to show he understands foreign policy in particular.
But I think he's also going to show that he's somebody who's very articulate. He's also going to be a very empathetic person. And he's going to really take it to Cheney on, particularly, domestic issues and make the president explain something that he doesn't do well with, talking about domestic policy.
ZAHN: All right. Mike, let's take a subset of that. We've been hearing over and over again today that Edwards is going to come out swinging on the issue of Halliburton, a company that the vice president once ran, a company that's gotten a bunch of no-bid contracts during this Iraq reconstruction process.
How vulnerable is the vice president on the Halliburton issue?
MURPHY: I think he's going to brush him off like a troublesome mosquito. I mean, I think the Edwards strategy is to try to make the debate about small, cynical issues, try to misrepresent the Halliburton thing. CARRICK: Nothing cynical about $2 million from Halliburton while he was vice president.
MURPHY: Halliburton, those guys are trying to rebuild the country (ph).
Again, they're going to want to take it down to the mud with some kind of mud slinging.
CARRICK: No mud. No.
MURPHY: Cheney's going to try to take it to the big picture, which is who do you trust to be safer? And I think the question in people's mind at the end of the debate will be if there was one big poker game with the bad guys for the security of the United States, who do you want playing for us? Dick Cheney or John Edwards? I think that pretty much sums up the difference.
ZAHN: Mike, you were trying to get in there on the Halliburton issue, but you concede that there has been nothing that has been proven to be illegal with any of the transactions with Halliburton, although there are questions being asked about some overcharges. That's the bottom line, right?
CARRICK: I would ask the vice president one question tomorrow night: "If you had it to do over again, would you take $2 million in deferred compensation from Halliburton while you're sitting in the vice president's office?"
He's made more money from Halliburton while he's vice president than he's gotten in his salary.
ZAHN: Of, come on. Didn't he negotiate that before he took the vice presidency, Bill?
CARRICK: He negotiated -- it's just improper for him to be sitting there taking a $2 million from Halliburton while they're the biggest contractor in the reconstruction of Iraq.
MURPHY: This is what the Democrats, and it's unfortunate.
CARRICK: It's not unfortunate.
ZAHN: Aren't both of you guys guilty of that in your camp?
MURPHY: We want a policy debate because we're in a troubled world with an international terrorist conspiracy.
ZAHN: All right. Hang on. I can't hear both of you talk at the same time.
MURPHY: My point would be here we are in a troubled time in the world, where we ought to have a serious policy debate. And these guys want to take cheap ethics shots like it's a city council race in Cleveland or something. This debate ought to be about the big picture, not about some silly trumped up charge can the Democrats have about Halliburton. Halliburton -- we can get out the Clinton record and go through corruption for a seven-hour debate.
But that's not what the country wants to hear. They want to know how you're going to make the country safer. They want to know about a guy who's been in a Senate about an hour and 15 minutes before he was on a police radio most of his career can actually do to handle a difficult world and a complicated national security situation.
The burden is on Edwards to prove he can play major league ball on big issues.
ZAHN: How much could John Edwards, Bill, hurt John Kerry's momentum if he doesn't perform well tomorrow night?
CARRICK: I think the Bush people desperately need for Cheney to be a speed bump tomorrow night.
ZAHN: All right. But what does your candidate got to do?
CARRICK: I think he's going to take on Dick Cheney, and if any -- Dick Cheney tries all this stuff about trial lawyers that Mike's tried, he'll end up in the same situation that the guy who lost his Senate seat tried.
ZAHN: But, Bill, a lot of Democrats have told me they were very disappointed that Edwards has not played the traditional attack role over the last month. They think he's more concerned about running in 2008 and protecting his hide than he is about protecting John Kerry right now.
First of all, do you agree with that?
CARRICK: Well, you know, I think he had a role to play, was working the smaller markets, working the local media. I think now after Labor Day he's been much more aggressive.
And I think you can be respectful, but be very aggressive with Dick Cheney tomorrow night. I think you're going to see John Edwards take it to Dick Cheney on the failures of the Bush administration, particularly on domestic policy.
ZAHN: Mike, let me ask you this. A lot of Republicans are telling me they're concerned about Dick Cheney being unleashed. And they feel during the last month or so, his appearances have been choreographed and he's been highly reliant upon notes. And they think that could be a problem tomorrow night.
MURPHY: We'll see what happens. I have a lot of faith in him. I think tomorrow he's going to do really, really well.
I got a kick out of my friend Carrick's bit about he's working the small towns. They couldn't be any smaller. I mean, for some reason they don't want to frame, you know, their vice presidential debate around this guy. And I don't quite understand why.
I will say this. I think if Carrick's candidate, Gephardt, was on the ticket, he'd be doing a lot better. I think he'd be on an economic message in the Midwest where the election can swing.
So I think what happened was Kerry picked a V.P. based on who he thought would play politically and look like a smart choice the day after the convention and instead he's got kind of a dud.
This is an important debate. You're right about the speed bump. We'll see what happens.
CARRICK: Paula -- Paula, I'll tell you one thing we know: John Edwards' favorable/unfavorable ratings are much, much higher going into this debate than Dick Cheney's. There's a reservoir of goodwill about John Edwards.
Dick Cheney has become the Darth Vader of American politics. And tomorrow night if we have a dark brooding presence of Dick Cheney, the American people aren't going to like it.
ZAHN: Mike, you laugh, yet poll after poll shows the vice president has some of the highest negatives of any vice president that's ever run for reelection, right around 40 percent.
MURPHY: I guess I just have to accept Kerry's arguments that the expectations are clearly Edwards will walk away with the debate.
CARRICK: Come on. You just can't admit he's the best debater in the world.
MURPHY: I'm excited about this debate.
ZAHN: All right. Ten minute -- 10-second predictions? Carrick?
CARRICK: I think -- I think John Edwards is going to do very, very well tomorrow night. I think he's going to take it to the vice president. I think...
ZAHN: Your time's up. That's 11 seconds.
CARRICK: He's going to shake things up tomorrow night.
ZAHN: Mike Murphy?
MURPHY: Great week for the Bush/Cheney ticket. Tuesday and Friday we take the race back.
ZAHN: We're going to call you guys on this come the end of the week. Bill Carrick, Mike Murphy, thanks.
MURPHY: Thanks.
ZAHN: And tomorrow night at this time, Dick Cheney and John Edwards will be minutes away from doing battle in their only debate. They may think they're putting their best faces forward, but how they get -- Jeanne Moos offers her advice, straight out of the break.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
ZAHN: Well, we've hit that time in our program where we turn our attention to something just as important as substance, it seems: style. It is time for a vice presidential debate preview from our own Jeanne Moos.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
JEANNE MOOS, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Prepare for mouth- to-mouth combat. Toothy grin versus slightly twisted grimace, a demeanor that attracts detractors on the web.
"The New York Daily News" likened Dick Cheney to Darth Vader.
JAMES EARL JONES, VOICE OF DARTH VADER: Don't make me destroy you.
MOOS: And John Edwards to Robin.
BURT WARD, ACTOR: No policeman is going to give the Batmobile a ticket.
MOOS: The boy wonder has hair that's flattered by the breeze, while not even a hurricane could disturb Dick Cheney's hairdo.
But that leaves Edwards with the disparaging nickname, the Breck Girl. Rush Limbaugh's web site even features a composite. Who knew good hair could end up being political split ends?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: What do you think of the close relationship that Senator Kerry and Edwards share?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What are you implying? That he's a beautiful man with the hair of a pony?
MOOS: A pony pitted against a Clydesdale.
DICK CHENEY, VICE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: People keep telling me that Senator Edwards got picked for his good looks, his charm, because he's sexy and has great hair. I said, "How do you think I got the job?"
MOOS: While "People" magazine once named Edwards sexiest politician, "New York Magazine" once proposed a makeover for Dick Cheney, consulting experts who recommended removing bags from under his eyes, trimming his waistline, getting porcelain veneers on his teeth, and new angular eyeglasses.
We can only imagine how the vice president would respond.
CHENEY: Enough foolishness.
MOOS: When it comes to verbal fencing, Darth Vader's powers could render a debate opponent speechless. UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Vader, release him.
JONES: As you wish.
MOOS: When Darth meets the boy wonder, don't expect a powwow, just a pow!
(END VIDEOTAPE)
ZAHN: All right. Jeanne, wait until you see what we do to you when you run for public office.
The results of our "Voting Book" question right after this.
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ZAHN: Back now tonight. "Voting Booth" results. We asked you, how much will tomorrow's vice presidential debate influence your vote? Eighteen percent of you said it would change your vote; 82 percent said it would not. This, of course, isn't a scientific poll, more of a snapshot of opinions from those of you who vote on our Web site. Keep it coming.
Tomorrow, the next big event in the campaign for president, our special pre-debate coverage of the only face-off between Vice President Dick Cheney and Senator John Edwards begins live at 8:00 p.m. Eastern from Cleveland. Then on Friday, we're on the road again, the second presidential debate in St. Louis. And again, our live special coverage gets under way in 8 p.m. Eastern. And I will be moderating live townhall meetings in four key battleground states. The first is this Thursday night, October 7, from Racine, Wisconsin. And then on October 14, we'll be in Bucks County, Pennsylvania. October 21, in Clark County, Ohio. And then on November 1, the night before the election, we find ourselves in Orlando, Florida.
But even if you're not there, you can take part by submitting a question for our townhall meetings. So go to our Web site right now -- now, you try saying "Web site right now" really fast -- it's cnn.com/paula, and tell us what you want to ask the Bush and Kerry campaign.
Thanks so much for joining us tonight. Hope you'll be back with us tomorrow night from Cleveland. "LARRY KING LIVE" is next. Have a good night.
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