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Paula Zahn Now

Johnny Carson Remembered; Family Mourns Fallen Soldier

Aired January 24, 2005 - 20:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


PAULA ZAHN, CNN ANCHOR: And good evening, everyone. We appreciate your joining us tonight.
We start off with a farewell to a legend, Johnny Carson, a tribute to the late-night legend, sweet and funny memories from his very special friends in Phyllis Diller, David Brenner, Rich Little. They'll all be joining us tonight.

But we begin with an emotional story of an Army sergeant, a young woman who made the ultimate sacrifice, so that Iraqis could enjoy the freedom to elect who they choose. Cari Anne Gasiewicz was a translator who devoted her life to making things better until the very end.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

ZAHN (voice-over): When Sergeant Cari Anne Gasiewicz came home in August, she had a request.

KATHLEEN GASIEWICZ, MOTHER OF CARI: Before she left, she says, mom, hold off Christmas, because, when I come home, we're going to have Christmas, one big heck of a celebration. And so, we said we would. We're going to keep up the tree and all the decorations up for her. And the family was going to get together and celebrate Christmas when she came home in January.

ZAHN: But that was not to be. Just a few weeks before she was scheduled to come home, Cari Anne was killed by an improvised explosive device, an IED.

K. GASIEWICZ: My understanding was that she had volunteered to drive one of the 2.5 tonners back from Baghdad back to Kuwait. And the first IED missed her and the second one, it blew up, killed her instantly. She could have been safe and flown home with the rest of the unit, but she chose to help volunteer and drive some of the trucks back.

ZAHN: Cari Anne Gasiewicz had a history of volunteering. She volunteered for the Army, joining the ROTC while in college, and then becoming a military intelligence agent. She volunteered to teach English to Korean children and adults, refusing to let anyone pay her for her time.

After serving two years in Korea, Cari was asked to take a language exam.

K. GASIEWICZ: And she scored extremely high. And her choices were Arabic and Russian. She wanted Russian, but the military said, well, gee, we would like you to take Arabic.

ZAHN: In January of 2004, Cari was told she would be going to Iraq.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: She spoke Arabic fluently, which made her an enormous asset. She was very good.

PAUL GASIEWICZ, FATHER OF CARI: She went in and she knew what she wanted to do.

ZAHN: For her family, finding out Cari was headed to war was not good news, but it was what their daughter wanted.

K. GASIEWICZ: She says, mom, I'm ready to go. I need to go and use the language and all of the information that I have gotten from the Army, all my training, and this is what I was trained for and I need to go.

ZAHN: While working in Iraq, Cari contacted her parents several days a week.

K. GASIEWICZ: Mom, I'm OK. It's the first thing that came out. Hi, mom. I'm OK.

P. GASIEWICZ: It was nice that there was a contact a couple times a week either by e-mail or by -- especially by phone. She made it a point to contact us like Sunday mornings. She would contact us and see how we were doing and tell how she was doing. Just to hear her voice was real nice.

ZAHN: On December 4, Cari's father answered a knock on the door.

P. GASIEWICZ: I remember just saying to them, this better not be anything about my daughter. And they told me that she had died in an explosion. And I said, no. (UNINTELLIGIBLE) I says, go away. I says, this can't be really happening.

ZAHN: Last month, hundreds of mourners attended Cari's funeral, honoring her compassionate spirit and her giving nature.

BARBARA FUN, AUNT OF CARI: And Sergeant Cari Anne Gasiewicz, when you do master the languages of the ages -- and I know you will -- remember to teach the rest of us.

ZAHN: A few weeks later, Cari's parents traveled to Fort Gordon, Georgia, for her unit's return, an otherwise joyous occasion marred by a single loss, the absence of Cari Anne.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Sergeant Cari Gasiewicz paid the ultimate price. We honor her memory tonight.

P. GASIEWICZ: I didn't expect the whole unit to come over to us and expressing their sympathy and condolence to us. I thought it would just be watch them come and go to their families. But there was a few -- there was quite a few of them that came to us before they even went to their families to express their condolence to us. It was just -- it was unbelievable. It was more than we expected.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You OK?

P. GASIEWICZ: Yes.

K. GASIEWICZ: She's always made us proud of everything she's ever done. She packed a lot into 28 years, a lot more than some people put in a lifetime.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

ZAHN: Cari Anne Gasiewicz was just one of many U.S. troops who have given their lives so that Iraqis could have the freedom to vote.

And there's much more ahead tonight, including the return to a city freed of insurgents, but shattered in the process.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

ZAHN (voice-over): First, the battle to free Falluja. Now the citizens return, but to what? Is there any hope for democracy somewhere beneath the rubble of the broken city?

And a special tribute from some of Johnny Carson's friends, David Brenner, Rich Little.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

RICH LITTLE, COMEDIAN: He said, hey, they still remember me, do they?

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ZAHN: Phyllis Diller. Tonight, remembering the mighty Carson.

All that and more as PAULA ZAHN NOW continues.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

ZAHN: As you know, there are now just five days to go until the election in Iraq, but the transition to democracy doesn't come cheap.

CNN has confirmed that, tomorrow, President Bush will ask Congress for another $80 billion for continuing military operations in Iraq and Afghanistan. And it appears U.S. forces have just gotten a break against the Iraqi insurgency. Last night and today, they confiscated one of the largest stockpiles of weapons in almost two years, rifles, ammunition and rocket-propelled grenades, all hidden in a garden of a private home west of Baghdad. It's just another example of Iraq's current cycle of hope and violence.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

ZAHN (voice-over): Another day that starts with a car bombing, this one outside the headquarters of interim Prime Minister Iyad Allawi's political party. Twelve people were hurt, including 10 Iraqi policemen.

Prime minister Allawi is a candidate in Sunday's vote to elect a legislative council to write a new constitution. Today, as current officer-holder would, he announced a 10-point plan to revive Iraq's economy and improve its bleak 50 percent unemployment rate. Allawi's government also announced the arrest of several insurgent leaders, including a man who allegedly claimed responsibility for 32 car bomb attacks in less than a year.

But U.S. officials tell CNN the detentions probably won't reduce the violence. These still pictures are from a video posted on an Islamic Web site. In statements made under duress, the two Iraqis say they drove truck loads of food and supplies to a U.S. base and warned other Iraqis not to help the Americans. The two men were then beheaded, apparently in full view of passersby.

Yesterday, yet another audiotape attributed to insurgent leader Abu Musab al-Zarqawi declared a bitter war against democracy. The voice on the tape explains that democracy is based on the right to chose your religion, and that, it says, is against the rule of God.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

ZAHN: And joining me now from Baghdad, chief international correspondent Christiane Amanpour.

Good evening, Christiane.

Every indication seems to show us that the level of violence will increase dramatically before this election happens. How do people view that from there?

CHRISTIANE AMANPOUR, CNN CHIEF INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: People really do want to vote, most people, anyway, the majority of the people here.

But this is an extraordinary situation. The whole election campaign has really been a stealth campaign. Candidates haven't really been able to campaign on the street. So those with the biggest name recognition, like the current interim prime minister, definitely has a leg up in terms of people knowing him. But people are afraid. They're just afraid of being able to go out and cast their vote.

Added to that, there's this constant reason to make them afraid because every day, as we get closer to the election, there are more of these catastrophic bombings.

ZAHN: Give us a sense of the kind of preparations that are taking place in particular a place like Tikrit, that you've just gotten back from.

What the U.S. is trying to do and it is doing is stepping up its hunt for the insurgents ahead of these elections. It's really trying to crack down hard. It's trying to step up its training of the Iraqi forces, whether they be special commandos, special emergency response unit, basically, the police and the Iraqi army. Those that exist, they're trying to give them intensive training, so that they can really be as prepared as possible to take responsibility for security on Election Day.

And they're saying that it seems to be paying off, because they say that they've captured hundreds of suspected insurgents around the country. We were shown some 200 or so that are in the army's detention facility in Tikrit. They say they've captured dozens of weapons caches.

ZAHN: And, of course, the fear is, even once this election takes place, given the fact that Shiites represent some 60 percent of the population, that the Sunnis will not have much representation. Is there still talk of a potential civil war if that's the outcome?

AMANPOUR: People fear the worst-case scenario, that with a disenfranchised Sunni minority, people who had the power and the privilege under the previous regime, if they're disenfranchised and the Shiites are perceived as sort of taking political revenge, then people fear for what's going to happen in the future.

And, certainly, in the few weeks that we've seen, there have been factional-based bombings. Some of the bombings have taken place against Shiite mosques, against Shiite political parties.

ZAHN: Christiane, we should probably mention that Saddam Hussein's birthplace is Tikrit. You've talked to with a fair of people there, most of them Sunnis, I assume. How do they view the election?

AMANPOUR: Some of them told us, quite frankly, that they miss Saddam Hussein. As incongruous as that sounds, this terrible, tyrannical dictator, some people said, look, look, here in Tikrit, he looked after us.

And, furthermore, what we had then was at least better services. Some, on the other hand, said they wanted to vote and would vote. They said, inshallah, it would be a normal election and we'll be able to go to the polls. But it is Saddam's hometown and you did get that gamut of reaction up there.

ZAHN: Christiane Amanpour, thank you so much. Appreciate that late report.

And the Iraqi city of Falluja was considered a hotbed of the insurgency until U.S. and Iraqi forces moved in last November. And in the weeks of fighting that followed, much of Falluja was damaged or destroyed and most of its population fled.

As Jane Arraf now shows us, people are now coming back to a new kind of nightmare.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

JANE ARRAF, CNN BAGHDAD BUREAU CHIEF (voice-over): Hunt for food and water. Residents of Falluja living like refugees in their broken city. Before the battle, more than 200,000 people lived here. More than half have returned to see what's left of their homes after the fierce fighting in November. But only about 15,000 have stayed. There are lots of children, but no schools. Most live in neighborhoods with no services, many in houses that are only empty shells.

Leila Harage (ph), whose husband was killed in one of the battles, came back to Falluja with her sister.

"We couldn't afford the rent in Baghdad," she says.

(on camera): There are three distribution centers like this in Falluja; 2,000 people a day are coming through this one. They can away as much food and water as they want, but they say, that is not what they need.

(voice-over): This woman says her house was destroyed. She's been coming every day to try to get a wheel barrel. "How am I supposed to clear out the rubble," she asks, "with my clothes?"

The men wait in line to get identification cards that will allow them through checkpoints. They wait for hours. "There's no running water, no electricity. How can we live in Falluja? Falluja is broken," says shop owner Saad Mahmud (ph).

"Our houses were looted and burned," Falil Ibrahim (ph) tells us. "Were we all terrorists? Were we all criminals?"

For security, Marines fingerprint each applicants before issuing I.D. cards. Some of them don't pass the security check. Outside, in line, some of the men argue with an Iraqi army captain, who tells them things are getting better. "If it's so safe, why are there still explosions?" one man asks. "Half of you could be insurgents. We have no way of knowing," Captain Ahmed (ph) tells them. "You have to help us identify them. All of us need to work together."

But despite his best intentions, some say they don't trust their own security forces. They say the forces bully local people.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We hope America army stay here, but Iraqi army, no. Iraqi army, no good.

ARRAF: But with so much else on their minds, these men say they have no interest in Iraq's historic elections next week. "Who is there to vote for? What do we know about voting?" one says. What they want to know who is going to help rebuild their battered city and their broken lives.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

ZAHN: That was Jane Arraf on the struggle to bring normal life back to Falluja.

Now it's time for you all to weigh in. Should Iraqi elections be delayed until the violence ends? Log on to CNN.com/Paula to have your say. We'll have the results for you at the end of the hour.

When we come back, the late-night king of comedy, the man who sent us to bed every night laughing out loud. Remembering Johnny Carson with his friends who knew him and loved him.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

ZAHN: Welcome back.

As you've probably heard by now, Johnny Carson died yesterday at the age of 79. And today in Hollywood, it was easy to find his star on the Walk of Fame. Just look for the flowers, the cards, the candles, tokens left to say thanks for the laughter.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

ED MCMAHON, ANNOUNCER: Ladies and gentlemen, here's Johnny.

ZAHN (voice-over): He didn't start the late night talk show. Steve Allen and Jack Paar came first. But Johnny Carson polished and perfected it. The opening monologue.

JOHNNY CARSON, HOST, "THE TONIGHT SHOW": What a nice crowd. Thank you for coming tonight.

ZAHN: Joking around with the band, the sidekick, the interviews with big-name entertainers, the skits featuring assorted, kooky characters, such as all-seeing, all-knowing Carnac (ph).

CARSON: Name a pope, a hope and a homeless dope.

ZAHN: And, of course, the political humor.

CARSON: Now, Bush wanted to prove that he can live dangerously, too, so he went speed-boating with George Will and Gore Vidal.

ZAHN: None of this was new, but, between 1962 and 1992, Carson cornered the market. Even now, in 2005, everybody still does it more or less his way.

JAY LENO, HOST, "THE TONIGHT SHOW": Welcome to "The Tonight Show." Nice to have you all here.

ZAHN: Tune in Leno, Letterman, Conan O'Brien, Jon Stewart, and then look back at Carson. It's hard to improve on perfection. It's hard enough just to duplicate it. John William Carson was born on October 23, 1925 in Corning, Iowa, grew up in Norfolk, Nebraska, midwestern roots he took to New York and later to Burbank, California, never losing that common touch or the ability to make us laugh.

He never took his finger off the country's pulse. His last "Tonight Show" was May 22, 1992. We hardly ever saw him after that. When Johnny Carson retired, he meant it. But his impact is still felt in ways you see and don't see. NBC paid him millions and has Carson to thank for making millions in return., according to "The New York Times," $200 million in profit from the Jay Leno and Conan O'Brien shows in just this past year. "The Times" also says that's more profit than either ABC or Fox made as an entire network.

Over on CBS, David Letterman's show turned a profit of close to $100 million last year. Just last week, we learned that Carson still sent jokes to Letterman, who used them. Carson also owned the rights to his old program, making millions by repackaging and selling collections of his own show.

The laughter that Johnny Carson left us...

CARSON: I didn't even know you were Jewish.

ZAHN: ... with us for a long, long time.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

ZAHN: And according to the Carson show's official Web site, my next guest hosted "The Tonight Show" 70 times.

Comedian David Brenner joins me now from Las Vegas.

Good of you to join us.

I know you've watched the best over the years. What was Johnny Carson's magic?

DAVID BRENNER, COMEDIAN: Well, I think, first of all, he had this charm and charisma that was excellent. And I think that the other thing is, he just knew instinctively how to bring out the best of every guest. He never had his ego on the table. He had his ego in the bottom drawer.

So what he would do is make you the best you could be as a guest. And that made the show the best it could be, which, in turn, made him the best he could be. I could remember people talking on the street and hearing people saying, oh, you should have seen Johnny last night. Carson was so great. What a great show. He had David Brenner on. It was hilarious.

Meanwhile, all he did with me, Paula, was say, so, how are you? And then I rambled for six minutes, but he got all the credit because he let me shine. And he let every guest shine. And that was his magic.

ZAHN: So, what was the most important lesson you listened from him?

BRENNER: To listen to your guests and follow up with a question. You could say, to someone, boy, like other hosts, oh, the other day, I was walking across the street and this woman walked in right front of a car. I saved her and I wrestled her to the ground. I really saved her. And the host would look at you and say, well, you're from Philadelphia, right?

What about the story I just told? So, Johnny, he listened and then he followed through. And, of course, he added. He was brilliant, brilliantly funny. It was just -- it was like being with a friend and sitting there and just having a conversation and having a good time.

ZAHN: Yes, and he was very gentle on the ears as well as a listener.

What interested me is that he gave so many young comedians a chance. He gave you your first break. What did he have to gain from that?

BRENNER: I think he cherished comedy and therefore cherished comedians and did all he could to make the established comedians better than they were and to take new talent and put it on the air.

I debuted on that show, first time I was ever on television. And, as a result of my first appearance -- I had $3 in my pocket, Paula, when I did that show. And that's all the money I had to my name. And the next day, I had $10,000 worth of job offers just from that one appearance.

ZAHN: You've got to be so grateful for that.

BRENNER: Of course.

ZAHN: Let me ask you something else about the way he worked, when you said he was able to bring out the best in folks. AT his core, he was a very shy man, wasn't he?

BRENNER: Yes, he was totally different off camera than he was on camera. Even during the commercial breaks, sometimes, you could see that shyness coming out. Even though he knows you for years, there was a certain shyness.

And he had a small clique of personal friends. I was not one of them in his circle of friends. I was social with him a few times. Once, the best moment, was by accident. We met on the street. And for almost an hour, we stood there being hysterical with each other, just laughing and commenting and talking.

But I think the genius of Johnny Carson was unique. In every field of endeavor, human endeavor, there is somebody who is the best, who is a natural. And Johnny Carson in talk shows, there was no one better. And I don't think there ever will be.

ZAHN: I know you had some contact with him after he retired. What did he think about those of you who inherited his mantle in one form or another?

BRENNER: I'll tell you how generous he was. I always thanked him. My last book, I sent him a copy of the manuscript just to thank him. And said, I hope this gives you a lot of laughs.

And he always wrote back, by the way, through the years. He would write me back. And he wrote back and told me how much he enjoyed the book. And then he said, if you want to use this on the cover of the book as a quote from me, you may. And he gave me a quote. It was such a generous gesture. And he was always that way. And whenever I thanked him for everything he game me in my career and in my life, he would always say, David, all I did was get you on the show, allow you the format, and he said, but it was your talent that brought you to the top, not me. He never would take credit for what he did for me. And, actually, to this day, everything from the $3 I had in my pocket up to me starring now at the Hilton Hotel on a long-term deal, I can attribute directly to Johnny Carson.

ZAHN: Well, it's nice to hear. I know I have a treasured thank- you note from him where I was begging for an interview. And he thanked me for begging and said -- you remember, when he went into retirement, he basically did nothing with the exception of one print interview.

BRENNER: No.

ZAHN: But I treasure that note. It was very, very thoughtfully written.

(LAUGHTER)

BRENNER: That's great.

ZAHN: The best dis I've ever gotten.

David Brenner, thanks for your time. Appreciate your memories.

BRENNER: Thanks. Great talking with you again.

ZAHN: Thanks, David, Good luck to you.

When we come back, more fond and funny memories from none other than comedians Phyllis Diller and Rich Little.

We'll be back after this.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

ZAHN: We're back to pay our tribute to Johnny Carson. And perhaps no two comedians made Johnny Carson laugh more than the incomparable Phyllis Diller, who joins us from Los Angeles tonight, and the king of impressions, Rich Little, who joins us from Las Vegas tonight. The two of them did a show together at one point in Las Vegas. Great to have the two of you together.

So, Phyllis, you started doing "The Tonight Show" long before Johnny Carson was a part of it. How was he different from Jack Paar and Steve Allen?

PHYLLIS DILLER, COMEDIENNE: Well, he was more sophisticated and more advanced in a comedic way. He did sketches, which none of the other guys did sketches. He actually did a lot of physical humor. He was very -- he was absolutely fearless physically, and in great shape. So he added a whole lot of new dimensions.

Plus, those guys really didn't invent characters. You see, he had all those wonderful characters like Carnac (ph) and the salesman and the Aunt Gabby. You know what I mean? He expanded "The Tonight Show" program.

ZAHN: And Phyllis, when he took over "The Tonight Show" in 1962, did you think he was going to be destined to become the king of late night TV?

DILLER: Well, I don't think I gave it that much thought. Everyone was saying that no one could follow Jack Paar, but God knows, he took the show to a higher level even, because he had an expanded talent.

ZAHN: And Rich Little, you had many years to study his character. He was probably one of the best known of your impersonations. How did you capture Johnny Carson?

RICHARD LITTLE, COMEDIAN: I'd come down from Canada, because I'm a Canadian, right? Live in Canada, three downs and a kick.

ZAHN: I think I (UNINTELLIGIBLE). It was a long weekend, but not that long.

LITTLE: You know, I had some success on "The Judy Garland Show" and then went on to a lot of other variety shows. And I was asked to go on the Carson show, but I was billed as the man who could imitate anybody. And I thought, if I go on the show, they're going to say, can you do Johnny Carson? And I couldn't at that time.

So I locked myself in a room for about two weeks and I studied Johnny Carson. I watched tapes, I watched his mannerisms, I spent all my time as Johnny Carson. I'd answer the phone in the room as Johnny Carson. I would -- anybody that phoned me up, I'd talk to them as Johnny Carson. I became Johnny Carson.

I found myself writing out alimony checks. It was that bad.

ZAHN: Yeah, there were a number of wives to feed there, weren't there, Rich? So what did Johnny think of your impressions of him?

LITTLE: He loved it. I mean, he just -- you know, one thing about Johnny, he had a wonderful laugh. He actually laughed like Steve Allen, you know, it was the same laugh. It was that -- and he would just throw himself back in the chair and scream when he thought something was funny. He had a marvelous sense of humor. You know, and a great listener. And he always wanted to make the guest, you know, do as well as they can. You know, it wasn't -- everything wasn't him, you know, him being funny. He wanted the guest to be funny, to be entertaining.

And he just -- when I would do him, of course, he knew all his mannerisms, you know, and when I would do the all it takes and all the little idiosyncrasies, he would say, stop that. You know, gosh, I'm not going to be able to perform, you know, they're going to put me in a straight jacket. But he was a perfect person to impersonate.

ZAHN: And Phyllis, Rich's impressions are as alive today and as fresh as they were I'm sure the first time you saw them. Describe to us what you think, besides the fact that he made guests feel so comfortable and he was a great listener, what you think made his performances so magical?

DILLER: Well, number one, he was a total gentleman, and he had great taste, and great class, and enormous talent. Plus, he was just an incredibly perfect host. It's hard to imagine anyone being that good.

ZAHN: And I know, Rich, you have said rather pointedly that you miss Johnny Carson, that this new crop of late night comedians doesn't have his magic. What's missing?

LITTLE: You know, when I do my nightclub act, I'm going to be down in Atlantic City next weekend -- a little plug there. But when I do my nightclub act, and I say to the audience every night, do people miss Johnny Carson? The whole audience just applauds. You know, they didn't want him to quit.

And the thing about Johnny was, as Phyllis says, which is all true, people liked him. You liked Johnny Carson. There are people that are talented in this business, but if you like them as a person, you can go much further. You know, Perry Como was liked, Jimmy Durante was liked, Jimmy Stewart, Jack Benny, George Burns. Those people were liked. And Johnny just was liked by everybody, because he was just a regular guy from Nebraska who had a tremendous ability to come up with a line so fast. There was no hesitation. He was a master at coming up with the right line at the right moment.

ZAHN: Well, we appreciate both of you capturing his essence tonight. So Rich, we know you're from Canada, which would you make you a Canadian. And where is it you are heading for your next show, Atlantic City, is that correct?

LITTLE: Atlantic City. I'll be at the Hilton next weekend.

(CROSSTALK)

LITTLE: Can I finish doing my Phyllis Diller impression?

(LAUGHTER)

ZAHN: Does he get a 10 for that, Phyllis? (UNINTELLIGIBLE).

DILLER: Oh, he's wonderful.

ZAHN: All right. Great to have both of you with us tonight. Phyllis Diller, Rich Little.

LITTLE: Thank you, Paula, love you.

ZAHN: Thank you. Love both of you too.

Larry King has a very special look at Johnny Carson's life coming up at 9:00, and Larry, I understand you have a very important guest -- well, maybe even guests by this stage of the night. How are you tonight?

LARRY KING, HOST, "LARRY KING LIVE": I'm fine. I love that look. That's your color.

ZAHN: Is it a little late after Christmas to be wearing this, or is it OK?

KING: No, no, it's year round. It's you, Paula.

ZAHN: OK, I'll wear it every Monday night for you.

KING: Rich Little is in love with you. That's number 11,444 on the list.

Ed McMahon is with us tonight. His first exclusive prime-time interview, Ed McMahon will join us. And then we'll be joined by Doc Severinsen, his first appearance since the death of Johnny Carson. And we'll also be hearing from Paul Anka, who wrote "The Tonight Show" theme. So we have got Anka, who wrote the theme, Severinsen, who led the band, and McMahon, who was his sidekick for 30 years, all coming up at the top of the hour. And Paula, we love you.

ZAHN: Oh, Larry, thank you. That's so nice of you. And I'll be watching you tonight. Sounds like a good show.

KING: Thank you, Paula.

ZAHN: See you in about, I don't know, 20 minutes or so.

We're going to take a short break in a moment. We'll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

ZAHN: Attorney General John Ashcroft gave an emotional farewell today to the people who served him at the Justice Department. He's not going to step down until the Senate confirms his successor, Alberto Gonzales.

Ashcroft has been called a lightning rod for critics who say civil liberties and privacy rights have suffered during the war on terror. But there was none of that today.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

ZAHN (voice-over): The outgoing attorney general was deeply grateful for his time at the Justice Department.

JOHN ASHCROFT, ATTORNEY GENERAL: I will never forget my opportunity to serve alongside you.

ZAHN: John Ashcroft's own contributions were celebrated by FBI Director Robert Mueller.

ROBERT MUELLER, FBI DIRECTOR: It's an honor for me to be here to be able to say farewell to one of America's finest leaders. ZAHN: In an interview with CNN's Kelli Arena, Ashcroft acknowledged his tenure had been controversial.

ASHCROFT: I'd rather have a good record which will, over time, be recognized as bringing us the lowest crime rate in modern history, the lowest gun crime rate in the history of the United States when you compare it to violent crime generally, a reduction in drug trafficking, not to mention the fact that we've been able to avoid additional terrorist attacks. Those things will be important things.

KELLI ARENA, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Once you leave, you won't be getting those daily intelligence briefings that you've probably grown very accustomed to. What will keep you awake at night?

ASHCROFT: Well, first of all, nothing's going to keep me awake at night. I'll sleep at night, because I know that there are people in the law enforcement community who are doing vastly more than they ever did before to keep America safe.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

ZAHN: John Ashcroft opposes abortion rights, and he leaves just as that position is gaining some political momentum. Antiabortion activists rallied in Washington today to mark the anniversary of the Supreme Court ruling that made abortion legal.

And after decades of battling over abortion rights, they may be on the verge of getting a crucial edge on the Supreme Court.

Here's senior political correspondent Candy Crowley.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

CANDY CROWLEY, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): It has been 32 years since the Roe v. Wade decision, 1973, the same year Alveda King had an abortion.

ALVEDA KING, NIECE OF MARTIN LUTHER KING: For 10 years I didn't tell anybody. I just didn't talk about it. And then in 1983 I had an encounter with Jesus Christ, and I got to where I could talk to my children about it. And after I talked to my children, their response was, "Well, did you want to kill us, too?"

CROWLEY: This is the third year she has come to march against abortion. More precisely, she helps lead the march. An African- American in a movement that is largely white, a woman with history in her blood and civil rights in her name.

KING: America, that blank check that my uncle Martin Luther King talked about a long time ago, has to come in and go to the bank on behalf of the babies. And that means hey, hey, ho, ho, Roe v. Wade has got to go.

CROWLEY: There is a sense of momentum in the antiabortion community. But a number of marchers say it is not -- not yet -- about overturning Roe, not for the president who'd phoned in his support. GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: The true culture of life cannot be sustained solely by changing laws. We need, most of all, to change hearts.

CROWLEY: And not for Alveda King.

KING: I'm so glad that he's pro-life. I'm delighted. But God will make people see. He'll begin to touch our hearts. And I think there will be a tremendous revival.

CROWLEY: Still, with the Supreme Court vacancy in the offing, while the faithful worked to change hearts, the political twist arms. A double-truck ad appeared in the "Washington Times" Monday, listing Catholic lawmakers who support abortion rights.

JUDY BROWN, PRESIDENT, AMERICAN LIFE LEAGUE: Until such time as they have publicly asked forgiveness for their support of abortion, they should not be receiving holy communion, according to canon law.

CROWLEY: While tens of thousands massed in Washington against abortion, the other side seemed oddly quiet. But they are there, and they are planning.

NANCY KEENAN, PRESIDENT, NARAL PRO-CHOICE AMERICA: We are galvanized. The pro-choice movement, the voices of America, middle America will be heard loud and clear in the U.S. Senate when they come to try to nominate and appoint the next Supreme Court justice.

KING (singing): And before I'll be a slave, I'll be...

CROWLEY: Alveda King ended her day at a rally in front of the Supreme Court. A former state legislator in Georgia, she understands politics and where the next big abortion fight will be. But mostly, she seems to be fighting an old battle.

KING: There are very few days that go by that I don't regret it. And every time I see little children and I realize how many children are not here.

CROWLEY: For all the shouting and struggle over all the years, abortion remains a far tougher personal struggle than a political one.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

ZAHN: Candy Crowley on the growing momentum among antiabortion activists.

Coming up next, four-legged lifesavers in a race against time, the amazing work of the avalanche rescue dogs. You'll meet a couple of them when we come back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

ZAHN: In the northeast today, people still digging out from the blizzard of 2005. The storm dumped close to three feet of snow in some parts of New England. And the National Weather Service now says the storm may be one of the 10 worst in the past 100 years.

And forecasts are telling us more snow is on the way on Wednesday. Oh, great!

But in the western United States, winter brings the danger of avalanches. Near Park City, Utah, earlier this month, a snow slide killed one person.

And our Rusty Dornin recently spent some time with the people who try to prevent avalanches.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: That whole slab, that whole piece will come out as a huge slab and slide down the mountain.

RUSTY DORNIN, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): After 25 years of forecasting avalanches, Gene Yurie (ph) has a special sense of snow. He's learned that avalanches are born in what's called a starting zone.

Alpine Meadow Ski Resort near Lake Tahoe has more than 300 starting zones. This resort is known for great skiing but also for its reputation as the deadliest when it comes to avalanches. Eleven people have died since 1976.

No one can stop the slides here, but Gene and others want to make sure no one else is killed.

Every morning Gene or one of the other forecasters checks the weather station at the bottom.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No precipitation last night. We have nice, clear skies. So in general, things are pretty stable right now.

DORNIN: But instruments don't tell you everything. For avalanches, you have to go see for yourself.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: As we're coming out in the morning, we can see whether there's been natural activity. Have some of the slopes slid on their own?

DORNIN (on camera): Is this area over here a problem area sometimes for avalanche concern?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Everything from here all the way around this pole, up onto that high ridge around there, it's all avalanche starting zones.

DORNIN (voice-over): Bright sunny skies, no snow for two weeks, not exactly avalanche weather, but there's always work to be done, knocking down what could turn into a problem.

So Gene, together with ski patrolmen Ken Berklan (ph) and Casey Jones, arm themselves with two-pound explosive charges and hike up to a spot known as Idiot's Folly, where snow builds overhangs called cornices.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: There's a little bit of an overhang back there, Ken.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Right over here?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes.

DORNIN: They light the fuse and 90 seconds later...

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: There we go.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We didn't get a slab avalanche out of this. We just knocked off some cornice.

DORNIN (on camera): Less chance of an avalanche later.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes.

DORNIN (voice-over): Two more charges, each thrown over the side of the cliff on a string.

Then it's onto the what if scenario. Avalanche rescue training near the bottom of the field (ph), where in 1976 a slide killed three people. Ski patrolmen are looking for clues where people might be buried in the snow.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I found another pole, similar style as before. If you know the trajectory, maybe you want him to come over here and help you probe a little bit.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Right probe down.

DORNIN: They probe with long poles to see if anyone is buried.

(on camera) This is just a training exercise, but they have probed and found someone from an avalanche here many years ago. And this is an area of the ski resort that slides every time it snows.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: See how far it goes down? See I can just keep going?

DORNIN: Yes, YES.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Come over here.

DORNIN: Right.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Like that.

DORNIN: Yes, you hit something. You can really feel it. How do you know there's not just rocks and stuff?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You don't.

DORNIN (voice-over): This is when they call in the specialist, Rex, a fifth generation avalanche rescue dog here at Alpine Meadows. In this training exercise, he finds a scarf buried two feet under the snow.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Good boy!

DORNIN (on camera): Let's say I was buried in an avalanche, but you don't have any article of clothing of mine. How does he find me without knowing what my scent is?

EVAN SALKE, TRAINER, SKI PATROL: Well, as I said, the Galsios (ph) component, which over time, depending on how deep the burial is, would eventually rise to the surface. A person buried deeper would be much easier for the dog to tag and alert to than, say, an article.

DORNIN (voice-over): Rex is one of seven avalanche rescue dogs here, a big hit with skiers. His trainer, Evan Salke, is also an avalanche forecaster, as are many of the patrolman are here.

He gave up a career as a stockbroker in Boston 15 years ago to join the ski patrol, a career that takes a lot of hard work, can be very dangerous and pays very little.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: OK, guys, probes up.

DORNIN: But no one has died in an avalanche here since 1982, and for many of the patrolman, that's the payoff.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

ZAHN: That is a lot of hard work. Rusty Dornin reporting for us. We're going to be right back with one last look at the genius of Johnny Carson.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

ZAHN: Welcome back.

Earlier tonight we were talking about the upcoming Iraqi elections, which fall on Sunday. And we asked you a question, whether you thought, in the wake of all this violence from the insurgents, whether the election should be delayed until the violence ends. Forty-four percent of you said yes; 56 percent say no.

Not just a scientific poll, but a web site sampling.

At this point we usually bring you a few laughs from the late night comics, but tonight the man who set the gold standard for all the rest.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JOHNNY CARSON, FORMER HOST, "THE TONIGHT SHOW": Every Lincoln's birthday I -- reminds me of my old girlfriend back in Nebraska, Gina Statutory, and she went to Lincoln High, and she was voted Ms. Lincoln because every guy took a shot at her in the balcony. You know, we finally have a clue now as to what they have, the Loony Toon that have been coming out of Washington for the past few years. We apparently have a new cabinet officer in the government, I was not aware of, the secretary of health, education and soothsaying.

I am not an expert on astrology -- I know a little bit about it -- but I understand the horoscope, or the chart, as they call it, is divided into what they call the so-called 12 houses. And I just didn't know the White House was one of them.

Now, I thought the president handled it pretty well. He's taken a lot of flak, and he defended Nancy, which I think a good husband would do. And Reagan said he had never made a foreign policy decision based on astrology. He decided not to do that. And a reporter asked him why not, and the president said, "Well, because that little pointer on my Ouija Board moved to 'no'."

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ZAHN: Johnny, we'll miss you. Good night, everyone. Thanks for joining us tonight.

TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com


Aired January 24, 2005 - 20:00   ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
PAULA ZAHN, CNN ANCHOR: And good evening, everyone. We appreciate your joining us tonight.
We start off with a farewell to a legend, Johnny Carson, a tribute to the late-night legend, sweet and funny memories from his very special friends in Phyllis Diller, David Brenner, Rich Little. They'll all be joining us tonight.

But we begin with an emotional story of an Army sergeant, a young woman who made the ultimate sacrifice, so that Iraqis could enjoy the freedom to elect who they choose. Cari Anne Gasiewicz was a translator who devoted her life to making things better until the very end.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

ZAHN (voice-over): When Sergeant Cari Anne Gasiewicz came home in August, she had a request.

KATHLEEN GASIEWICZ, MOTHER OF CARI: Before she left, she says, mom, hold off Christmas, because, when I come home, we're going to have Christmas, one big heck of a celebration. And so, we said we would. We're going to keep up the tree and all the decorations up for her. And the family was going to get together and celebrate Christmas when she came home in January.

ZAHN: But that was not to be. Just a few weeks before she was scheduled to come home, Cari Anne was killed by an improvised explosive device, an IED.

K. GASIEWICZ: My understanding was that she had volunteered to drive one of the 2.5 tonners back from Baghdad back to Kuwait. And the first IED missed her and the second one, it blew up, killed her instantly. She could have been safe and flown home with the rest of the unit, but she chose to help volunteer and drive some of the trucks back.

ZAHN: Cari Anne Gasiewicz had a history of volunteering. She volunteered for the Army, joining the ROTC while in college, and then becoming a military intelligence agent. She volunteered to teach English to Korean children and adults, refusing to let anyone pay her for her time.

After serving two years in Korea, Cari was asked to take a language exam.

K. GASIEWICZ: And she scored extremely high. And her choices were Arabic and Russian. She wanted Russian, but the military said, well, gee, we would like you to take Arabic.

ZAHN: In January of 2004, Cari was told she would be going to Iraq.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: She spoke Arabic fluently, which made her an enormous asset. She was very good.

PAUL GASIEWICZ, FATHER OF CARI: She went in and she knew what she wanted to do.

ZAHN: For her family, finding out Cari was headed to war was not good news, but it was what their daughter wanted.

K. GASIEWICZ: She says, mom, I'm ready to go. I need to go and use the language and all of the information that I have gotten from the Army, all my training, and this is what I was trained for and I need to go.

ZAHN: While working in Iraq, Cari contacted her parents several days a week.

K. GASIEWICZ: Mom, I'm OK. It's the first thing that came out. Hi, mom. I'm OK.

P. GASIEWICZ: It was nice that there was a contact a couple times a week either by e-mail or by -- especially by phone. She made it a point to contact us like Sunday mornings. She would contact us and see how we were doing and tell how she was doing. Just to hear her voice was real nice.

ZAHN: On December 4, Cari's father answered a knock on the door.

P. GASIEWICZ: I remember just saying to them, this better not be anything about my daughter. And they told me that she had died in an explosion. And I said, no. (UNINTELLIGIBLE) I says, go away. I says, this can't be really happening.

ZAHN: Last month, hundreds of mourners attended Cari's funeral, honoring her compassionate spirit and her giving nature.

BARBARA FUN, AUNT OF CARI: And Sergeant Cari Anne Gasiewicz, when you do master the languages of the ages -- and I know you will -- remember to teach the rest of us.

ZAHN: A few weeks later, Cari's parents traveled to Fort Gordon, Georgia, for her unit's return, an otherwise joyous occasion marred by a single loss, the absence of Cari Anne.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Sergeant Cari Gasiewicz paid the ultimate price. We honor her memory tonight.

P. GASIEWICZ: I didn't expect the whole unit to come over to us and expressing their sympathy and condolence to us. I thought it would just be watch them come and go to their families. But there was a few -- there was quite a few of them that came to us before they even went to their families to express their condolence to us. It was just -- it was unbelievable. It was more than we expected.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You OK?

P. GASIEWICZ: Yes.

K. GASIEWICZ: She's always made us proud of everything she's ever done. She packed a lot into 28 years, a lot more than some people put in a lifetime.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

ZAHN: Cari Anne Gasiewicz was just one of many U.S. troops who have given their lives so that Iraqis could have the freedom to vote.

And there's much more ahead tonight, including the return to a city freed of insurgents, but shattered in the process.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

ZAHN (voice-over): First, the battle to free Falluja. Now the citizens return, but to what? Is there any hope for democracy somewhere beneath the rubble of the broken city?

And a special tribute from some of Johnny Carson's friends, David Brenner, Rich Little.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

RICH LITTLE, COMEDIAN: He said, hey, they still remember me, do they?

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ZAHN: Phyllis Diller. Tonight, remembering the mighty Carson.

All that and more as PAULA ZAHN NOW continues.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

ZAHN: As you know, there are now just five days to go until the election in Iraq, but the transition to democracy doesn't come cheap.

CNN has confirmed that, tomorrow, President Bush will ask Congress for another $80 billion for continuing military operations in Iraq and Afghanistan. And it appears U.S. forces have just gotten a break against the Iraqi insurgency. Last night and today, they confiscated one of the largest stockpiles of weapons in almost two years, rifles, ammunition and rocket-propelled grenades, all hidden in a garden of a private home west of Baghdad. It's just another example of Iraq's current cycle of hope and violence.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

ZAHN (voice-over): Another day that starts with a car bombing, this one outside the headquarters of interim Prime Minister Iyad Allawi's political party. Twelve people were hurt, including 10 Iraqi policemen.

Prime minister Allawi is a candidate in Sunday's vote to elect a legislative council to write a new constitution. Today, as current officer-holder would, he announced a 10-point plan to revive Iraq's economy and improve its bleak 50 percent unemployment rate. Allawi's government also announced the arrest of several insurgent leaders, including a man who allegedly claimed responsibility for 32 car bomb attacks in less than a year.

But U.S. officials tell CNN the detentions probably won't reduce the violence. These still pictures are from a video posted on an Islamic Web site. In statements made under duress, the two Iraqis say they drove truck loads of food and supplies to a U.S. base and warned other Iraqis not to help the Americans. The two men were then beheaded, apparently in full view of passersby.

Yesterday, yet another audiotape attributed to insurgent leader Abu Musab al-Zarqawi declared a bitter war against democracy. The voice on the tape explains that democracy is based on the right to chose your religion, and that, it says, is against the rule of God.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

ZAHN: And joining me now from Baghdad, chief international correspondent Christiane Amanpour.

Good evening, Christiane.

Every indication seems to show us that the level of violence will increase dramatically before this election happens. How do people view that from there?

CHRISTIANE AMANPOUR, CNN CHIEF INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: People really do want to vote, most people, anyway, the majority of the people here.

But this is an extraordinary situation. The whole election campaign has really been a stealth campaign. Candidates haven't really been able to campaign on the street. So those with the biggest name recognition, like the current interim prime minister, definitely has a leg up in terms of people knowing him. But people are afraid. They're just afraid of being able to go out and cast their vote.

Added to that, there's this constant reason to make them afraid because every day, as we get closer to the election, there are more of these catastrophic bombings.

ZAHN: Give us a sense of the kind of preparations that are taking place in particular a place like Tikrit, that you've just gotten back from.

What the U.S. is trying to do and it is doing is stepping up its hunt for the insurgents ahead of these elections. It's really trying to crack down hard. It's trying to step up its training of the Iraqi forces, whether they be special commandos, special emergency response unit, basically, the police and the Iraqi army. Those that exist, they're trying to give them intensive training, so that they can really be as prepared as possible to take responsibility for security on Election Day.

And they're saying that it seems to be paying off, because they say that they've captured hundreds of suspected insurgents around the country. We were shown some 200 or so that are in the army's detention facility in Tikrit. They say they've captured dozens of weapons caches.

ZAHN: And, of course, the fear is, even once this election takes place, given the fact that Shiites represent some 60 percent of the population, that the Sunnis will not have much representation. Is there still talk of a potential civil war if that's the outcome?

AMANPOUR: People fear the worst-case scenario, that with a disenfranchised Sunni minority, people who had the power and the privilege under the previous regime, if they're disenfranchised and the Shiites are perceived as sort of taking political revenge, then people fear for what's going to happen in the future.

And, certainly, in the few weeks that we've seen, there have been factional-based bombings. Some of the bombings have taken place against Shiite mosques, against Shiite political parties.

ZAHN: Christiane, we should probably mention that Saddam Hussein's birthplace is Tikrit. You've talked to with a fair of people there, most of them Sunnis, I assume. How do they view the election?

AMANPOUR: Some of them told us, quite frankly, that they miss Saddam Hussein. As incongruous as that sounds, this terrible, tyrannical dictator, some people said, look, look, here in Tikrit, he looked after us.

And, furthermore, what we had then was at least better services. Some, on the other hand, said they wanted to vote and would vote. They said, inshallah, it would be a normal election and we'll be able to go to the polls. But it is Saddam's hometown and you did get that gamut of reaction up there.

ZAHN: Christiane Amanpour, thank you so much. Appreciate that late report.

And the Iraqi city of Falluja was considered a hotbed of the insurgency until U.S. and Iraqi forces moved in last November. And in the weeks of fighting that followed, much of Falluja was damaged or destroyed and most of its population fled.

As Jane Arraf now shows us, people are now coming back to a new kind of nightmare.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

JANE ARRAF, CNN BAGHDAD BUREAU CHIEF (voice-over): Hunt for food and water. Residents of Falluja living like refugees in their broken city. Before the battle, more than 200,000 people lived here. More than half have returned to see what's left of their homes after the fierce fighting in November. But only about 15,000 have stayed. There are lots of children, but no schools. Most live in neighborhoods with no services, many in houses that are only empty shells.

Leila Harage (ph), whose husband was killed in one of the battles, came back to Falluja with her sister.

"We couldn't afford the rent in Baghdad," she says.

(on camera): There are three distribution centers like this in Falluja; 2,000 people a day are coming through this one. They can away as much food and water as they want, but they say, that is not what they need.

(voice-over): This woman says her house was destroyed. She's been coming every day to try to get a wheel barrel. "How am I supposed to clear out the rubble," she asks, "with my clothes?"

The men wait in line to get identification cards that will allow them through checkpoints. They wait for hours. "There's no running water, no electricity. How can we live in Falluja? Falluja is broken," says shop owner Saad Mahmud (ph).

"Our houses were looted and burned," Falil Ibrahim (ph) tells us. "Were we all terrorists? Were we all criminals?"

For security, Marines fingerprint each applicants before issuing I.D. cards. Some of them don't pass the security check. Outside, in line, some of the men argue with an Iraqi army captain, who tells them things are getting better. "If it's so safe, why are there still explosions?" one man asks. "Half of you could be insurgents. We have no way of knowing," Captain Ahmed (ph) tells them. "You have to help us identify them. All of us need to work together."

But despite his best intentions, some say they don't trust their own security forces. They say the forces bully local people.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We hope America army stay here, but Iraqi army, no. Iraqi army, no good.

ARRAF: But with so much else on their minds, these men say they have no interest in Iraq's historic elections next week. "Who is there to vote for? What do we know about voting?" one says. What they want to know who is going to help rebuild their battered city and their broken lives.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

ZAHN: That was Jane Arraf on the struggle to bring normal life back to Falluja.

Now it's time for you all to weigh in. Should Iraqi elections be delayed until the violence ends? Log on to CNN.com/Paula to have your say. We'll have the results for you at the end of the hour.

When we come back, the late-night king of comedy, the man who sent us to bed every night laughing out loud. Remembering Johnny Carson with his friends who knew him and loved him.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

ZAHN: Welcome back.

As you've probably heard by now, Johnny Carson died yesterday at the age of 79. And today in Hollywood, it was easy to find his star on the Walk of Fame. Just look for the flowers, the cards, the candles, tokens left to say thanks for the laughter.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

ED MCMAHON, ANNOUNCER: Ladies and gentlemen, here's Johnny.

ZAHN (voice-over): He didn't start the late night talk show. Steve Allen and Jack Paar came first. But Johnny Carson polished and perfected it. The opening monologue.

JOHNNY CARSON, HOST, "THE TONIGHT SHOW": What a nice crowd. Thank you for coming tonight.

ZAHN: Joking around with the band, the sidekick, the interviews with big-name entertainers, the skits featuring assorted, kooky characters, such as all-seeing, all-knowing Carnac (ph).

CARSON: Name a pope, a hope and a homeless dope.

ZAHN: And, of course, the political humor.

CARSON: Now, Bush wanted to prove that he can live dangerously, too, so he went speed-boating with George Will and Gore Vidal.

ZAHN: None of this was new, but, between 1962 and 1992, Carson cornered the market. Even now, in 2005, everybody still does it more or less his way.

JAY LENO, HOST, "THE TONIGHT SHOW": Welcome to "The Tonight Show." Nice to have you all here.

ZAHN: Tune in Leno, Letterman, Conan O'Brien, Jon Stewart, and then look back at Carson. It's hard to improve on perfection. It's hard enough just to duplicate it. John William Carson was born on October 23, 1925 in Corning, Iowa, grew up in Norfolk, Nebraska, midwestern roots he took to New York and later to Burbank, California, never losing that common touch or the ability to make us laugh.

He never took his finger off the country's pulse. His last "Tonight Show" was May 22, 1992. We hardly ever saw him after that. When Johnny Carson retired, he meant it. But his impact is still felt in ways you see and don't see. NBC paid him millions and has Carson to thank for making millions in return., according to "The New York Times," $200 million in profit from the Jay Leno and Conan O'Brien shows in just this past year. "The Times" also says that's more profit than either ABC or Fox made as an entire network.

Over on CBS, David Letterman's show turned a profit of close to $100 million last year. Just last week, we learned that Carson still sent jokes to Letterman, who used them. Carson also owned the rights to his old program, making millions by repackaging and selling collections of his own show.

The laughter that Johnny Carson left us...

CARSON: I didn't even know you were Jewish.

ZAHN: ... with us for a long, long time.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

ZAHN: And according to the Carson show's official Web site, my next guest hosted "The Tonight Show" 70 times.

Comedian David Brenner joins me now from Las Vegas.

Good of you to join us.

I know you've watched the best over the years. What was Johnny Carson's magic?

DAVID BRENNER, COMEDIAN: Well, I think, first of all, he had this charm and charisma that was excellent. And I think that the other thing is, he just knew instinctively how to bring out the best of every guest. He never had his ego on the table. He had his ego in the bottom drawer.

So what he would do is make you the best you could be as a guest. And that made the show the best it could be, which, in turn, made him the best he could be. I could remember people talking on the street and hearing people saying, oh, you should have seen Johnny last night. Carson was so great. What a great show. He had David Brenner on. It was hilarious.

Meanwhile, all he did with me, Paula, was say, so, how are you? And then I rambled for six minutes, but he got all the credit because he let me shine. And he let every guest shine. And that was his magic.

ZAHN: So, what was the most important lesson you listened from him?

BRENNER: To listen to your guests and follow up with a question. You could say, to someone, boy, like other hosts, oh, the other day, I was walking across the street and this woman walked in right front of a car. I saved her and I wrestled her to the ground. I really saved her. And the host would look at you and say, well, you're from Philadelphia, right?

What about the story I just told? So, Johnny, he listened and then he followed through. And, of course, he added. He was brilliant, brilliantly funny. It was just -- it was like being with a friend and sitting there and just having a conversation and having a good time.

ZAHN: Yes, and he was very gentle on the ears as well as a listener.

What interested me is that he gave so many young comedians a chance. He gave you your first break. What did he have to gain from that?

BRENNER: I think he cherished comedy and therefore cherished comedians and did all he could to make the established comedians better than they were and to take new talent and put it on the air.

I debuted on that show, first time I was ever on television. And, as a result of my first appearance -- I had $3 in my pocket, Paula, when I did that show. And that's all the money I had to my name. And the next day, I had $10,000 worth of job offers just from that one appearance.

ZAHN: You've got to be so grateful for that.

BRENNER: Of course.

ZAHN: Let me ask you something else about the way he worked, when you said he was able to bring out the best in folks. AT his core, he was a very shy man, wasn't he?

BRENNER: Yes, he was totally different off camera than he was on camera. Even during the commercial breaks, sometimes, you could see that shyness coming out. Even though he knows you for years, there was a certain shyness.

And he had a small clique of personal friends. I was not one of them in his circle of friends. I was social with him a few times. Once, the best moment, was by accident. We met on the street. And for almost an hour, we stood there being hysterical with each other, just laughing and commenting and talking.

But I think the genius of Johnny Carson was unique. In every field of endeavor, human endeavor, there is somebody who is the best, who is a natural. And Johnny Carson in talk shows, there was no one better. And I don't think there ever will be.

ZAHN: I know you had some contact with him after he retired. What did he think about those of you who inherited his mantle in one form or another?

BRENNER: I'll tell you how generous he was. I always thanked him. My last book, I sent him a copy of the manuscript just to thank him. And said, I hope this gives you a lot of laughs.

And he always wrote back, by the way, through the years. He would write me back. And he wrote back and told me how much he enjoyed the book. And then he said, if you want to use this on the cover of the book as a quote from me, you may. And he gave me a quote. It was such a generous gesture. And he was always that way. And whenever I thanked him for everything he game me in my career and in my life, he would always say, David, all I did was get you on the show, allow you the format, and he said, but it was your talent that brought you to the top, not me. He never would take credit for what he did for me. And, actually, to this day, everything from the $3 I had in my pocket up to me starring now at the Hilton Hotel on a long-term deal, I can attribute directly to Johnny Carson.

ZAHN: Well, it's nice to hear. I know I have a treasured thank- you note from him where I was begging for an interview. And he thanked me for begging and said -- you remember, when he went into retirement, he basically did nothing with the exception of one print interview.

BRENNER: No.

ZAHN: But I treasure that note. It was very, very thoughtfully written.

(LAUGHTER)

BRENNER: That's great.

ZAHN: The best dis I've ever gotten.

David Brenner, thanks for your time. Appreciate your memories.

BRENNER: Thanks. Great talking with you again.

ZAHN: Thanks, David, Good luck to you.

When we come back, more fond and funny memories from none other than comedians Phyllis Diller and Rich Little.

We'll be back after this.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

ZAHN: We're back to pay our tribute to Johnny Carson. And perhaps no two comedians made Johnny Carson laugh more than the incomparable Phyllis Diller, who joins us from Los Angeles tonight, and the king of impressions, Rich Little, who joins us from Las Vegas tonight. The two of them did a show together at one point in Las Vegas. Great to have the two of you together.

So, Phyllis, you started doing "The Tonight Show" long before Johnny Carson was a part of it. How was he different from Jack Paar and Steve Allen?

PHYLLIS DILLER, COMEDIENNE: Well, he was more sophisticated and more advanced in a comedic way. He did sketches, which none of the other guys did sketches. He actually did a lot of physical humor. He was very -- he was absolutely fearless physically, and in great shape. So he added a whole lot of new dimensions.

Plus, those guys really didn't invent characters. You see, he had all those wonderful characters like Carnac (ph) and the salesman and the Aunt Gabby. You know what I mean? He expanded "The Tonight Show" program.

ZAHN: And Phyllis, when he took over "The Tonight Show" in 1962, did you think he was going to be destined to become the king of late night TV?

DILLER: Well, I don't think I gave it that much thought. Everyone was saying that no one could follow Jack Paar, but God knows, he took the show to a higher level even, because he had an expanded talent.

ZAHN: And Rich Little, you had many years to study his character. He was probably one of the best known of your impersonations. How did you capture Johnny Carson?

RICHARD LITTLE, COMEDIAN: I'd come down from Canada, because I'm a Canadian, right? Live in Canada, three downs and a kick.

ZAHN: I think I (UNINTELLIGIBLE). It was a long weekend, but not that long.

LITTLE: You know, I had some success on "The Judy Garland Show" and then went on to a lot of other variety shows. And I was asked to go on the Carson show, but I was billed as the man who could imitate anybody. And I thought, if I go on the show, they're going to say, can you do Johnny Carson? And I couldn't at that time.

So I locked myself in a room for about two weeks and I studied Johnny Carson. I watched tapes, I watched his mannerisms, I spent all my time as Johnny Carson. I'd answer the phone in the room as Johnny Carson. I would -- anybody that phoned me up, I'd talk to them as Johnny Carson. I became Johnny Carson.

I found myself writing out alimony checks. It was that bad.

ZAHN: Yeah, there were a number of wives to feed there, weren't there, Rich? So what did Johnny think of your impressions of him?

LITTLE: He loved it. I mean, he just -- you know, one thing about Johnny, he had a wonderful laugh. He actually laughed like Steve Allen, you know, it was the same laugh. It was that -- and he would just throw himself back in the chair and scream when he thought something was funny. He had a marvelous sense of humor. You know, and a great listener. And he always wanted to make the guest, you know, do as well as they can. You know, it wasn't -- everything wasn't him, you know, him being funny. He wanted the guest to be funny, to be entertaining.

And he just -- when I would do him, of course, he knew all his mannerisms, you know, and when I would do the all it takes and all the little idiosyncrasies, he would say, stop that. You know, gosh, I'm not going to be able to perform, you know, they're going to put me in a straight jacket. But he was a perfect person to impersonate.

ZAHN: And Phyllis, Rich's impressions are as alive today and as fresh as they were I'm sure the first time you saw them. Describe to us what you think, besides the fact that he made guests feel so comfortable and he was a great listener, what you think made his performances so magical?

DILLER: Well, number one, he was a total gentleman, and he had great taste, and great class, and enormous talent. Plus, he was just an incredibly perfect host. It's hard to imagine anyone being that good.

ZAHN: And I know, Rich, you have said rather pointedly that you miss Johnny Carson, that this new crop of late night comedians doesn't have his magic. What's missing?

LITTLE: You know, when I do my nightclub act, I'm going to be down in Atlantic City next weekend -- a little plug there. But when I do my nightclub act, and I say to the audience every night, do people miss Johnny Carson? The whole audience just applauds. You know, they didn't want him to quit.

And the thing about Johnny was, as Phyllis says, which is all true, people liked him. You liked Johnny Carson. There are people that are talented in this business, but if you like them as a person, you can go much further. You know, Perry Como was liked, Jimmy Durante was liked, Jimmy Stewart, Jack Benny, George Burns. Those people were liked. And Johnny just was liked by everybody, because he was just a regular guy from Nebraska who had a tremendous ability to come up with a line so fast. There was no hesitation. He was a master at coming up with the right line at the right moment.

ZAHN: Well, we appreciate both of you capturing his essence tonight. So Rich, we know you're from Canada, which would you make you a Canadian. And where is it you are heading for your next show, Atlantic City, is that correct?

LITTLE: Atlantic City. I'll be at the Hilton next weekend.

(CROSSTALK)

LITTLE: Can I finish doing my Phyllis Diller impression?

(LAUGHTER)

ZAHN: Does he get a 10 for that, Phyllis? (UNINTELLIGIBLE).

DILLER: Oh, he's wonderful.

ZAHN: All right. Great to have both of you with us tonight. Phyllis Diller, Rich Little.

LITTLE: Thank you, Paula, love you.

ZAHN: Thank you. Love both of you too.

Larry King has a very special look at Johnny Carson's life coming up at 9:00, and Larry, I understand you have a very important guest -- well, maybe even guests by this stage of the night. How are you tonight?

LARRY KING, HOST, "LARRY KING LIVE": I'm fine. I love that look. That's your color.

ZAHN: Is it a little late after Christmas to be wearing this, or is it OK?

KING: No, no, it's year round. It's you, Paula.

ZAHN: OK, I'll wear it every Monday night for you.

KING: Rich Little is in love with you. That's number 11,444 on the list.

Ed McMahon is with us tonight. His first exclusive prime-time interview, Ed McMahon will join us. And then we'll be joined by Doc Severinsen, his first appearance since the death of Johnny Carson. And we'll also be hearing from Paul Anka, who wrote "The Tonight Show" theme. So we have got Anka, who wrote the theme, Severinsen, who led the band, and McMahon, who was his sidekick for 30 years, all coming up at the top of the hour. And Paula, we love you.

ZAHN: Oh, Larry, thank you. That's so nice of you. And I'll be watching you tonight. Sounds like a good show.

KING: Thank you, Paula.

ZAHN: See you in about, I don't know, 20 minutes or so.

We're going to take a short break in a moment. We'll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

ZAHN: Attorney General John Ashcroft gave an emotional farewell today to the people who served him at the Justice Department. He's not going to step down until the Senate confirms his successor, Alberto Gonzales.

Ashcroft has been called a lightning rod for critics who say civil liberties and privacy rights have suffered during the war on terror. But there was none of that today.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

ZAHN (voice-over): The outgoing attorney general was deeply grateful for his time at the Justice Department.

JOHN ASHCROFT, ATTORNEY GENERAL: I will never forget my opportunity to serve alongside you.

ZAHN: John Ashcroft's own contributions were celebrated by FBI Director Robert Mueller.

ROBERT MUELLER, FBI DIRECTOR: It's an honor for me to be here to be able to say farewell to one of America's finest leaders. ZAHN: In an interview with CNN's Kelli Arena, Ashcroft acknowledged his tenure had been controversial.

ASHCROFT: I'd rather have a good record which will, over time, be recognized as bringing us the lowest crime rate in modern history, the lowest gun crime rate in the history of the United States when you compare it to violent crime generally, a reduction in drug trafficking, not to mention the fact that we've been able to avoid additional terrorist attacks. Those things will be important things.

KELLI ARENA, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Once you leave, you won't be getting those daily intelligence briefings that you've probably grown very accustomed to. What will keep you awake at night?

ASHCROFT: Well, first of all, nothing's going to keep me awake at night. I'll sleep at night, because I know that there are people in the law enforcement community who are doing vastly more than they ever did before to keep America safe.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

ZAHN: John Ashcroft opposes abortion rights, and he leaves just as that position is gaining some political momentum. Antiabortion activists rallied in Washington today to mark the anniversary of the Supreme Court ruling that made abortion legal.

And after decades of battling over abortion rights, they may be on the verge of getting a crucial edge on the Supreme Court.

Here's senior political correspondent Candy Crowley.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

CANDY CROWLEY, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): It has been 32 years since the Roe v. Wade decision, 1973, the same year Alveda King had an abortion.

ALVEDA KING, NIECE OF MARTIN LUTHER KING: For 10 years I didn't tell anybody. I just didn't talk about it. And then in 1983 I had an encounter with Jesus Christ, and I got to where I could talk to my children about it. And after I talked to my children, their response was, "Well, did you want to kill us, too?"

CROWLEY: This is the third year she has come to march against abortion. More precisely, she helps lead the march. An African- American in a movement that is largely white, a woman with history in her blood and civil rights in her name.

KING: America, that blank check that my uncle Martin Luther King talked about a long time ago, has to come in and go to the bank on behalf of the babies. And that means hey, hey, ho, ho, Roe v. Wade has got to go.

CROWLEY: There is a sense of momentum in the antiabortion community. But a number of marchers say it is not -- not yet -- about overturning Roe, not for the president who'd phoned in his support. GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: The true culture of life cannot be sustained solely by changing laws. We need, most of all, to change hearts.

CROWLEY: And not for Alveda King.

KING: I'm so glad that he's pro-life. I'm delighted. But God will make people see. He'll begin to touch our hearts. And I think there will be a tremendous revival.

CROWLEY: Still, with the Supreme Court vacancy in the offing, while the faithful worked to change hearts, the political twist arms. A double-truck ad appeared in the "Washington Times" Monday, listing Catholic lawmakers who support abortion rights.

JUDY BROWN, PRESIDENT, AMERICAN LIFE LEAGUE: Until such time as they have publicly asked forgiveness for their support of abortion, they should not be receiving holy communion, according to canon law.

CROWLEY: While tens of thousands massed in Washington against abortion, the other side seemed oddly quiet. But they are there, and they are planning.

NANCY KEENAN, PRESIDENT, NARAL PRO-CHOICE AMERICA: We are galvanized. The pro-choice movement, the voices of America, middle America will be heard loud and clear in the U.S. Senate when they come to try to nominate and appoint the next Supreme Court justice.

KING (singing): And before I'll be a slave, I'll be...

CROWLEY: Alveda King ended her day at a rally in front of the Supreme Court. A former state legislator in Georgia, she understands politics and where the next big abortion fight will be. But mostly, she seems to be fighting an old battle.

KING: There are very few days that go by that I don't regret it. And every time I see little children and I realize how many children are not here.

CROWLEY: For all the shouting and struggle over all the years, abortion remains a far tougher personal struggle than a political one.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

ZAHN: Candy Crowley on the growing momentum among antiabortion activists.

Coming up next, four-legged lifesavers in a race against time, the amazing work of the avalanche rescue dogs. You'll meet a couple of them when we come back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

ZAHN: In the northeast today, people still digging out from the blizzard of 2005. The storm dumped close to three feet of snow in some parts of New England. And the National Weather Service now says the storm may be one of the 10 worst in the past 100 years.

And forecasts are telling us more snow is on the way on Wednesday. Oh, great!

But in the western United States, winter brings the danger of avalanches. Near Park City, Utah, earlier this month, a snow slide killed one person.

And our Rusty Dornin recently spent some time with the people who try to prevent avalanches.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: That whole slab, that whole piece will come out as a huge slab and slide down the mountain.

RUSTY DORNIN, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): After 25 years of forecasting avalanches, Gene Yurie (ph) has a special sense of snow. He's learned that avalanches are born in what's called a starting zone.

Alpine Meadow Ski Resort near Lake Tahoe has more than 300 starting zones. This resort is known for great skiing but also for its reputation as the deadliest when it comes to avalanches. Eleven people have died since 1976.

No one can stop the slides here, but Gene and others want to make sure no one else is killed.

Every morning Gene or one of the other forecasters checks the weather station at the bottom.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No precipitation last night. We have nice, clear skies. So in general, things are pretty stable right now.

DORNIN: But instruments don't tell you everything. For avalanches, you have to go see for yourself.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: As we're coming out in the morning, we can see whether there's been natural activity. Have some of the slopes slid on their own?

DORNIN (on camera): Is this area over here a problem area sometimes for avalanche concern?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Everything from here all the way around this pole, up onto that high ridge around there, it's all avalanche starting zones.

DORNIN (voice-over): Bright sunny skies, no snow for two weeks, not exactly avalanche weather, but there's always work to be done, knocking down what could turn into a problem.

So Gene, together with ski patrolmen Ken Berklan (ph) and Casey Jones, arm themselves with two-pound explosive charges and hike up to a spot known as Idiot's Folly, where snow builds overhangs called cornices.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: There's a little bit of an overhang back there, Ken.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Right over here?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes.

DORNIN: They light the fuse and 90 seconds later...

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: There we go.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We didn't get a slab avalanche out of this. We just knocked off some cornice.

DORNIN (on camera): Less chance of an avalanche later.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes.

DORNIN (voice-over): Two more charges, each thrown over the side of the cliff on a string.

Then it's onto the what if scenario. Avalanche rescue training near the bottom of the field (ph), where in 1976 a slide killed three people. Ski patrolmen are looking for clues where people might be buried in the snow.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I found another pole, similar style as before. If you know the trajectory, maybe you want him to come over here and help you probe a little bit.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Right probe down.

DORNIN: They probe with long poles to see if anyone is buried.

(on camera) This is just a training exercise, but they have probed and found someone from an avalanche here many years ago. And this is an area of the ski resort that slides every time it snows.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: See how far it goes down? See I can just keep going?

DORNIN: Yes, YES.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Come over here.

DORNIN: Right.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Like that.

DORNIN: Yes, you hit something. You can really feel it. How do you know there's not just rocks and stuff?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You don't.

DORNIN (voice-over): This is when they call in the specialist, Rex, a fifth generation avalanche rescue dog here at Alpine Meadows. In this training exercise, he finds a scarf buried two feet under the snow.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Good boy!

DORNIN (on camera): Let's say I was buried in an avalanche, but you don't have any article of clothing of mine. How does he find me without knowing what my scent is?

EVAN SALKE, TRAINER, SKI PATROL: Well, as I said, the Galsios (ph) component, which over time, depending on how deep the burial is, would eventually rise to the surface. A person buried deeper would be much easier for the dog to tag and alert to than, say, an article.

DORNIN (voice-over): Rex is one of seven avalanche rescue dogs here, a big hit with skiers. His trainer, Evan Salke, is also an avalanche forecaster, as are many of the patrolman are here.

He gave up a career as a stockbroker in Boston 15 years ago to join the ski patrol, a career that takes a lot of hard work, can be very dangerous and pays very little.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: OK, guys, probes up.

DORNIN: But no one has died in an avalanche here since 1982, and for many of the patrolman, that's the payoff.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

ZAHN: That is a lot of hard work. Rusty Dornin reporting for us. We're going to be right back with one last look at the genius of Johnny Carson.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

ZAHN: Welcome back.

Earlier tonight we were talking about the upcoming Iraqi elections, which fall on Sunday. And we asked you a question, whether you thought, in the wake of all this violence from the insurgents, whether the election should be delayed until the violence ends. Forty-four percent of you said yes; 56 percent say no.

Not just a scientific poll, but a web site sampling.

At this point we usually bring you a few laughs from the late night comics, but tonight the man who set the gold standard for all the rest.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JOHNNY CARSON, FORMER HOST, "THE TONIGHT SHOW": Every Lincoln's birthday I -- reminds me of my old girlfriend back in Nebraska, Gina Statutory, and she went to Lincoln High, and she was voted Ms. Lincoln because every guy took a shot at her in the balcony. You know, we finally have a clue now as to what they have, the Loony Toon that have been coming out of Washington for the past few years. We apparently have a new cabinet officer in the government, I was not aware of, the secretary of health, education and soothsaying.

I am not an expert on astrology -- I know a little bit about it -- but I understand the horoscope, or the chart, as they call it, is divided into what they call the so-called 12 houses. And I just didn't know the White House was one of them.

Now, I thought the president handled it pretty well. He's taken a lot of flak, and he defended Nancy, which I think a good husband would do. And Reagan said he had never made a foreign policy decision based on astrology. He decided not to do that. And a reporter asked him why not, and the president said, "Well, because that little pointer on my Ouija Board moved to 'no'."

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ZAHN: Johnny, we'll miss you. Good night, everyone. Thanks for joining us tonight.

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