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Paula Zahn Now

BTK Sentencing Begins; Atta Flagged by Army Intel in 2000?; 'Bodies' to Open in Tampa

Aired August 17, 2005 - 20:00   ET


PAULA ZAHN. HOST: Good evening, everyone. Thank you for being with us tonight.
The only known survivor of an attack by the BTK serial killer.

His sister was murdered, but he got away.


KEVIN BRIGHT, BTK VICTIM: He was expecting to just strangle me like he did the other people, and I broke loose and jumped up.


ZAHN: Tonight, an amazing story of survival. But what would he say to the killer now?


BRIGHT: I mean, I have questions, you know, how somebody could be so evil.


ZAHN: Terrorist cells in America. We knew they were here. But how much did we know before September 11th? And is somebody still keeping deadly secrets?

Plus, hundreds of thousands of married men and married women logging onto a Web site for cheaters.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It fills in our needs, our wants. We have great communication. Everything is just great.


ZAHN: A Web of deceit.

We start tonight with BTK. Those letters have haunted Wichita, Kansas for more than 30 years now. Today was the first day of the sentencing hearing for serial killer Dennis Rader. You might remember he was arrested back in February. And then in June, he actually admitted killing 10 people between 1974 and 1991. So the question the judge will decide is whether Rader serves his 10 sentences consecutively or concurrently, which could mean some 175 years in jail. So in court today members of the community Rader terrorized relived their nightmare, but in far more chilling and grisly detail than anyone could ever imagine. And while they all endured that, Rader sat quietly in court and sipped a cup of coffee.

Here's David Mattingly.


DAVID MATTINGLY, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Families of the BTK victims have been warned by prosecutors in recent weeks that police testimony would be difficult to bear. What the detectives revealed, the graphic crime scene and autopsy photos and volumes of evidence from the killer himself, was the disturbing depth of cruelty and depravity behind Dennis Rader's murderous spree.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Did it appear to you that he seemed to be extremely proud of what he had done?

LARRY THOMAS, SPECIAL SGT: Yes, it was very matter of fact, and used the animation and also drawing pictures to help illustrate the details.

MATTINGLY: Rader once took the body of one of his victims to his church. Detectives described how he became more confident and bolder in time, torturing his victims by strangling them and reviving them to prolong their terror.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: All of his murders were what?

CLINT SNYDER, BTK TASK FORCE: Sexual. He called it sexual overt. He said that basically all of these people were going to die one of three ways. First they were going to be bound, then they would either be strangled, suffocated or hung.

MATTINGLY: No one in the courtroom was more familiar with the horror and the violence than Kevin Bright, who on April 4th, 1974, just 19 years old and 115 pounds, desperately fought for his sister Kathryn's life and his own, face-to-face with a young Dennis Rader.

BRIGHT: I surprised him, you know. He was expecting to just strangle me like he did the other people and I broke loose and jumped up. He went for his gun, and I just focused on that gun, because I knew he was going to shoot me. And I grabbed a hold of it and put it into his stomach and got my hand on the trigger and pulled the trigger twice and it didn't go off. And then he jerked it away from me. And...

MATTINGLY: Bright was shot in the forehead. But he continued to fight until Rader shot him a second time in the face. Rader then proceed to strangle the life out of 21-year-old Kathryn, who fought back as well.

SNYDER: He said that he had to strike her around the head area, trying to control her. And at the same time, he was trying to strangle her with a piece of cloth that he had found inside the residence.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: There's a quote behind you. Do you recall him making this quote?


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: How did he describe how Kathryn Bright fought?

SNYDER: She fought like a hellcat.

MATTINGLY: Seriously wounded, Kevin Bright struggled to stay alert, and managed to escape out the front door.

(on camera): How is it possible for someone to be shot in the head twice at close range and still be able to run outside like that?

BRIGHT: I don't know. By the grace of God, I was able to, you know, not regain -- I mean, I kept consciousness and I don't know if it's adrenaline or what, but I was able to stay -- get up and get out.

MATTINGLY (voice-over): Having lost control, Rader made his escape as well, but not before stabbing Kathryn 11 times. She was still alive when the first officer arrived.

SNYDER: When he came inside, Kathryn was laying on the floor in the living room face down in a pool of her own blood, clutching a telephone in her hand.

MATTINGLY: Kathryn Bright died a short time later. For months, Kevin says he struggled with guilt for being unable to save his sister. And for years, he was consumed with anger. Today the soft- spoken 50-year-old still has some lingering physical problems and a question that just won't go away.

BRIGHT: Why? I mean, I have questions, you know, how somebody could be so evil?

MATTINGLY: Police say Rader described the murder of Kathryn Bright in a seven-page document titled "Project Lights Out." He wrote of a plan he called the "afterlife concept of victim," in which he describes sexual fantasies he intended to act out with her after his own death.

(on camera): Is he the man that you remember that day?

BRIGHT: Yes. He's still wanting to be in control. He's still sure of himself. I'm sure they're going to try to analyze him, you know, see what made him tick. But I just think he's -- Satan's controlling him.


ZAHN: So, David, that was tough enough to listen to. But a lot of the family members who were in the courtroom today had to listen to very specific details about the murders of their loved ones. Describe to us some of the reactions to what they heard in court today.

MATTINGLY: In the courtroom there were some very visual reactions. Some of them covering their faces. Some of them crying, needing comfort at different times. As they exited the courtroom, they didn't have a lot to say. Some of them did say, however, that this is something that needed to be done, these details needed to be made public so that the public knew exactly what kind of monster they say that Dennis Rader truly is.

ZAHN: Is he going to address the court tomorrow?

MATTINGLY: He has that opportunity. It remains to be seen if he will actually go through with that. A lot of people who have watched Dennis Rader believe he will not pass on that opportunity. We'll also hear from representatives of each of the victims' families, however, that too, should be very powerful.

ZAHN: David Mattingly, thanks so much for the update. Joining me now, someone who has been covering the BTK story for 30 years now. Larry Hatteberg, anchor at KAKE-TV in Witchita, he was in the courtroom for today's hearing and is one of the few journalists who actually interviewed Dennis Rader in jail.

Welcome back, Larry. We've heard...


ZAHN: Thank you. Some very disturbing depictions of how Mr. Rader reacted in the courtroom. Did you find him emotionless today and is that the way he was in his phone conversations with you?

HATTEBERG: Exactly. Dennis Rader in the courtroom today, sat there and he looked at even the autopsy pictures and nothing seems to phase him. Nothing has ever seemed to phase Dennis Rader. As a matter of fact, he revels in the fact that we're talking about on him on television tonight. And my guess is that if there's a television available to him right now, that he's watching this and absolutely enjoying it, because he loves the publicity. That's what he lives for.

ZAHN: That is so sick. And to give our audience just how twisted this man is, I want to play a small part of the phone interview you did with him just weeks ago. Let's listen.


DENNIS RADER, BTK KILLER: I think my sentencing will probably be a pretty emotional day, probably have to have a box of Kleenexes that day.


ZAHN: What did he mean by that? He's going to need a box of Kleenexes? He's suddenly going to show remorse for these crimes that he's admitted that he's committed?

HATTEBERG: Well, he told me that he was working on a statement that he wanted to read in court. And he felt that that was going to be emotional. Now, he didn't indicate whether he was the one who was going to be emotional, or whether people in the audience, in the gallery there inside the courtroom would be the ones who would be emotional.

It's going to be very interesting. He told me that he's been working on his statement for quite a while, and he really cut off contact about three weeks ago so he could start to prepare for his day, so to speak, in court tomorrow.

ZAHN: Did he tell you what he wanted to say?

HATTEBERG: He didn't tell me exactly what he wanted to say. My guess is that he is going to attempt to apologize in some form and in some way to the victims. Now, he may not. He's Dennis Rader, and he's a bit unpredictable about what will happen in court. But my feeling is that he's going to try to apologize to the people. But every time he has tried to show remorse, you don't see it in your eyes, you don't hear it in his voice.

ZAHN: I want to play now another part of your interview where Rader said the last time he murdered was back in 1991. And you asked him a very pointed question, whether if he had not been caught, someone else was in his sights.

Let's listen to that now.


HATTEBERG: So you were not going to kill again, you had no projects in the works?

RADER: Well, yes and no. There was probably one more. I was really thinking about it. I was beginning to slow down, my -- age- wise, my thinking process. And to do it probably would never (INAUDIBLE), it was probably more of an ego thing.

HATTEBERG: Had you picked the person at that point?

RADER: Oh, yes. Uh-huh, yes. There was one already picked out.

HATTEBERG: Do you know her name?

RADER: No. No, not at this time.


ZAHN: It just -- it seems so odd that he can be that calculating when he's talking to you with no emotion at all. Do you think this is a man who has any understanding of the pain that he has caused so many people in your community?

HATTEBERG: I do not believe that he understands anything about that pain. And you know, Paula, one thing that happened in court today that was really a surprise to me that was brought out by one of the detectives who interviewed him, when he was actually in Joseph Otero's house, killing four members of the family, and as he was about to hang 11-year-old Josie Otero from a pipe in the basement, he asked her if she had a camera, because he wanted to take a picture. This is the kind of man we're dealing with.

ZAHN: I can't imagine what these poor families are going to have to suffer through over the next couple days. As though they haven't suffered enough over the last several decades.

HATTEBERG: It's very difficult.

ZAHN: Larry Hatteberg, thank you for joining us tonight.


ZAHN: Now we move on to terror of a very different kind. Could it be possible we actually knew about the 9/11 hijackers a year before they struck? Well, now an Army intelligence officer says he tried to warn the FBI in the year 2000 about some of the men who would later become 9/11 hijackers. But he says Pentagon lawyers refused to let him tell anyone.

Here's national security correspondent David Ensor.


DAVID ENSOR, CNN NATIONAL SECURITY CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Army Lieutenant Colonel Anthony Shaffer has gone public with his charge that Able Danger, a military intelligence project he worked with in 2000, identified Mohammed Atta, even pulled up his picture, along with three other 9/11 hijackers, as possible al Qaeda members.

LT. COL. ANTHONY SHAFFER: We found the identities of four of the 9/11 hijackers prior to 9/11. And that information was obtained through open source databases.

ENSOR: Shaffer says his unit linked Atta to al Qaeda leaders but would not provide any specifics. As to what he did with the information he had...

SHAFFER: We attempted to first off use it operationally. The lawyer said, you can't do that. They're considered U.S. persons. Therefore, at that point in time we made the determination as a team that we should move this information to the FBI.

ENSOR: But he says beginning in September 2000, three meetings he set up with the FBI were each canceled by military lawyers, because Atta and the others were in of the U.S. legally, and had no criminal records. Pentagon sources say a top official there is looking into the matter, after his meeting with Shaffer, who has been put on administrative leave with pay after questions were raised about his expenses, his security clearances have also been revoked.

Shaffer also says he remembers telling then 9/11 Commission staff at a meeting in Afghanistan about Atta and what the intelligence unit found back in 2000. He was surprised that it did not show up in the commission's report.

SHAFFER: Now according -- how I remember saying it, we found -- as part of the data run, we found two of the three cells which conducted 9/11 attacks to include Atta.

ENSOR: But Shaffer's credibility has come under some question, since the former 9/11 Commission staff said a staff memo does not record any mention of Mohammed Atta or any of the other future hijackers.

Intelligence veterans say if Shaffer is right, then assigning blame for dropping the ball back in 2000 depends partly on how those who had the information presented it to superiors.

JOHN MCLAUGHLIN, FORMER DEPUTY CIA DIRECTOR: What someone has to find out is whether this information was presented in a crisp and compelling way, or whether it was simply tossed in with a stack of papers and a stack of reports, literally hundreds and thousands that crossed the desks of people in Washington every day, and could have gotten lost in that shuffle.

ENSOR: The Patriot Act, signed by the president after 9/11, targeted much of the problem Shaffer's allegations highlight by requiring intelligence and law enforcement to share information, no matter who it's about. But Shaffer says he's become a whistleblower because there is still too much caution among bureaucrats, about trying new tactics against terrorists. He wants to shake that up.


ZAHN: And he is. David Ensor reporting.

What about current threats, though, of terrorism right here in the U.S.? On the "Security Watch" tonight, something may be brewing in Southern California, where police are now investigating routine robberies, and in the process, may have found a terror connection.

Here's our America bureau correspondent Kelli Arena.

KELLI ARENA, AMERICA BUREAU CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): For weeks this past spring, police in the Los Angeles area were working what they thought was a typical criminal case. Several gas stations were hit by two armed masked men demanding money.

NABEL BOKTER, GAS STATION ATTENDANT: They take some money -- all the money in the drawer and he go out quickly.

ARENA: During one of those robberies, officials say one of the suspects dropped a cell phone, leading investigators to these men: 21- year-old Gregory Patterson and 25-year-old Levar Washington, who was on parole for robbery. They were put under surveillance.

CHIEF WILLIAM BRATTON, LOS ANGELES POLICE DEPT.: We were staking them out and did witness them commit an armed robbery. ARENA: They were later arrested and that's when the criminal investigation turned into an FBI terrorism probe. Law enforcement officials tell CNN when Washington's home was searched, police found so-called jihadist material. Documents with quote, "radical Islamic rhetoric, some with positive mentions of Osama bin Laden." And imam at the mosque that men attended says Washington mostly kept to himself.

IMAM JUNAID KHARSANY: He was a very secretive sort of individual, very recluse sort of a person. Didn't have much to do with many of the people of this congregation. Just pray, leave, (INAUDIBLE) once in a while and they would leave.

ARENA: Officials say investigators also found what some say may be a list of potential targets in the Los Angeles area, including three National Guard facilities, the Israeli consulate, and two synagogues. Rabbis in the area say police informed them of a possible threat.

RABBI ABRAHAM COOPER, SIMON WIESENTHAL CENTER: They also made it clear that the immediate threat had in fact been neutralized with the arrest of these two individuals, and that all the steps that were being taken were obviously precautionary, because of the kind of world that we live in.

ARENA: Law enforcement officials stressed that at this point they cannot draw any concrete conclusions but are obviously trying to figure out whether they stumbled upon a home-grown terrorist cell.

Lawyers for both men deny any terror connection.

WINSTON MCKESSON, LAWYER FOR GREGORY PATTERSON: There's nothing that I've seen that would make me think that my client is part of a terrorist plot. Nothing.

ARENA: Authorities are also looking into the possibility the men are connected to an organization called JIS, investigators say it's a little-known domestic extremist group. Government officials believe the group may have a minor presence in at least one California prison, the California State Prison, Sacramento, where Washington had served time.

RODERICK HICKMAN, CALIF. DEPT. OF CORRECTIONS: We have and will continue to be very aggressive in our investigations, and prosecution of any group that might threaten the safety and security of our country or this state.

ARENA: Officials say investigators are talking with two inmates at the maximum security prison, Peter Martinez and Kevin James. Law enforcement sources say they may have information about possible jihad recruiting there.

(on camera): Officials say there are about a dozen or so individuals of interest in this case. At least one, a Pakistani national, has already been arrested.

(voice-over): Investigators won't be making any public statements until they know exactly what they're dealing with.


ZAHN: And we don't have any idea how long that will take. Kelli Arena reporting.

Still ahead, a story that may make you wonder, what's your spouse doing on the computer when you're not watching?


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Does your husband know you're doing this?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Absolutely not, no. Absolutely not.


ZAHN: Coming up, a dating Web site for married people who want to cheat. Is somebody you know looking?

Also, a story with pictures that may make you a bit squeamish. Why would any museum want you to see this.


ZAHN: Still ahead, a remarkable man who dedicated his life to helping grizzly bears. He got closer to them than you ever thought would be possible.

First, though, at about 22 minutes past the hour, time to update the hour's top stories with Erica Hill at HEADLINE NEWS.

Hi, Erica.

ERICA HILL, CNN HEADLINE NEWS ANCHOR: Hi, Paula, good to see you. Baghdad suffering its deadliest attacks in weeks today as three well-coordinated car bombs exploded near a bus station and hospitals. And those blasts killed at least 43 people, wounded dozens more. The dead included police and medical workers who were actually treating the injured when the final bomb went off.

Seven hundred parachute infantry troops based in Fort Bragg, North Carolina, meantime, are now being ordered to Iraq. The members of the 82rnd Airborne should arrive in about a month. They will help provide security at Abu Ghraib Prison and another jail which is set to open outside Baghdad.

Coke and Pepsi are signing on to a move by a soft drink industry to cut back on those sugar-filled drinks sold to school kids. The American Beverage Association recommends sodas be removed from machines at elementary schools in favor of bottled water and 100 percent juice. For middle schools, machines could stock sports drinks and no-calorie soft drinks. As for high school students, only half the drinks available to them would be sodas with sugar.

And one more thing that could be bad for your kid, violent video games. The American Psychological Association says they bring on aggressive behavior and anger in children and adolescents. Studies find in the games characters who commit violence go unpunished 73 percent of the time. The lesson there, that violence is an all right way to resolve a conflict.

Probably not what a lot of parents would like to teach their kids, Paula.

ZAHN: You're absolutely right, Erica, thanks so much. See you in about 20 minutes or so.

We want to give you a heads-up now about the story we're going to do straight out of the break. There are dead bodies in it. You're looking at parts of "Bodies" right there. They are at the center of a heated controversy. What will actually attract people to a museum? And how much should any museum let the public see?

Stay with us.

ZAHN: This is one of the more bizarre stories we've done in a while. So you may want to get the kinds out of the room. And for you, if you're squeamish, be warned. How would you like to spend an afternoon looking at corpses? Yes, real dead bodies. They happen to be in a controversial museum exhibit that was supposed to open in Tampa, Florida, this weekend. But there's a fight on whether anyone should get to see it.

Here's Susan Candiotti.


SUSAN CANDIOTTI, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Who is this man? How old is he? What did he do for a living? He's a mystery man, and so are 19 others. One posed as a runner, another practicing soccer. Part of an exhibit scheduled to open at a Tampa science museum.

DR. ROY GLOVER, PREMIER EXHIBITIONS: In anatomy we say the body doesn't lie, the body tells the truth.

CANDIOTTI: But the truth here is, these bodies are causing quite a stir. All cadavers, including 260 body parts, are Chinese and described as unclaimed and turned over to a Beijing medical laboratory. The bodies were preserved in polymer, and already have been exhibited in China.

An American company was granted permission to exhibit them. And the Tampa's Museum of Science and Industry jumped at the chance. It's Lay and Religious Ethics Committee approved.

WIT OSTRENKO, PRES., MOSI MUSEUM: I think the controversy is the uneasiness that people feel when being with a real human body. No one gets to experience that unless you're a medical student, a nursing student, a dentist. It's the uneasiness that I might see my mother there. But it's just not the case. CANDIOTTI: The museum calls the exhibit "Bodies," meant to educate visitors by showing what lies beneath the skin. Positioned by Chinese scientists, one specimen holds hands with its own skeleton. A woman's eyelashes and fingernails are real. There's a metal shaft in the thigh used to repair a shattered bone. Fetuses from four weeks to seven months. None survived childbirth. There's a blackened smoker's lung.

GLOVER: These lungs show the effects of what cigarette tars do as they are inhaled into your lung. They become trapped within it. They actually become embedded in the partitions within the lung.

CANDIOTTI (on camera): This is the real color?

GLOVER: This is the real color.

CANDIOTTI (voice-over): One body appears to be beckoning visitors with an out-turned thumb.

GLOVER: One of the things that we're always concerned about is the dignity and respect that we show them.

CANDIOTTI (on camera): Originally this specimen was shown with a layer of skin draped over an arm. The skin has been removed.

(voice-over): The executive director of Florida's anatomical board said he finds the display offensive.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Is this really the way we want to treat the deceased, put them on public display and charge admission to see them?

CANDIOTTI (on camera): Couldn't you just do this with a model? Why take an actual human being and put them on display like this?

OSTRENKO: When it's real, it's meaningful. When it's synthetic or virtual, it can be discarded and not taken as genuine.

CANDIOTTI (voice-over): On Wednesday, Florida's anatomical board voted down the museum's right to open "Bodies."

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The request is officially denied by the board.

CANDIOTTI: The museum and its exhibitor won't take no for an answer.

BRIAN WAINGER, ATTY. PREMIER EXHIBITION: It is our plan to open on Saturday. Anything short of a court order, and we open on Saturday.

CANDIOTTI: A few hours later, the museum decided to move up the opening to tomorrow, and is considering taking the matter to court.


ZAHN: Susan Candiotti reporting for us tonight. Similar exhibits like this one have drawn millions of spectators all over the world. And now another city in the U.S. is taking steps to deal with some of the questions surrounding these shows. San Francisco's board of supervisors has passed an ordinance to require the family's permission to display a person's remains.

And here's some advice from a man whose Web site is for married people want a date, but not with their spouses.

DARREN MORGENSTERN, ASHLEY MADISON FOUNDER: I assume anybody that you meet on the internet, is probably not telling the truth.

ZAHN: Coming up next, a Web site that caters to cheaters. Yes, that's right. And you're going to be shocked at how many people are using it.


ZAHN: It's a fact. You've got a lot of husbands and wives out there cheating on each other. And now it's even easier, thanks to a dating Web site that caters to men and women who want to cheat. And it has a gentile name. It's called Ashley Madison. But it isn't run by a steel magnolia. No, the founder is a guy from Toronto. Here's Sean Callebs.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: So, the park shouldn't be too much further.

SEAN CALLEBS, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): It's pretty common these days. A couple meets online, and it blossoms into a passionate physical relationship. These two are married, just not to each other. They hooked up through

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I was already into having affairs anyway and I thought, well, this would be an easier access for me.

CALLEBS: It's a dating site for people who want to cheat. The company credo, when monogamy becomes monotony. We agreed to distort our couples' images and alter their voices. The last thing anyone wants is an irate spouse lashing out.

Does your husband know you're doing this?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Absolutely not. No. Absolutely not.

CALLEBS: What would he think?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I know the consequences, what will happen.

CALLEBS: She predicts a bitter and contentious divorce, and children are involved. So why the risk? Why sneak around two or three times a week for a few stolen hours when each could lose so much?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Everything just between the two of us. It fills in our needs and our wants. We have great communication. Everything is -- just everything's just great.

CALLEBS: The obvious question -- why not get divorced? these two say, although in a way it defies logic, that they are happily married, but that this gives them a sense of excitement they cannot find at home.

UNIDENTFIED FEMALE: I'm not concerned about getting caught. I know that I won't get caught. I won't get caught. I'm wise about it.

CALLEBS: The company fired up three years ago and works like any other dating site. Pay money, about $100, and begin surfing. Ashley Madison says it doesn't even know the name of their subscribers. It got off to a solid start but took off when the founder Darren Morgenstern was pasted on the cover of a national Canadian magazine that crowned him the king of infidelity.

MORGENSTERN: We don't think it's sleazy at all. Ashley Madison is, you know, not about porn. Ashley Madison is not an adult site. Ashley Madison is mature themed.

CALLEBS: Morgenstern has dabbled in a number of businesses, but nothing as successful as this. He makes no apologies for getting wealthy this way. His Toronto-based company became profitable in six months and now boasts 480,000 customers. It doubles in size every year, and could bring in $10 million this year.

(on camera): The company says nearly half of its clientele are people who live in the United States. Ashley Madison believes its exponential growth will continue. The company founder says he believes there's no shortage of husbands and wives in the U.S. willing to cheat on their spouses.

MORGENSTERN: It's recession-proof. It can always be here as long as people are willing to stray. And people have strayed from the beginning of time.

SUSAN HEITLER, PH.D., CLINICAL PSYCHOLOGIST: I had images of Adam and Eve and a snake as I read the come-on, the seductive quotes that invites people to come in and take a look.

CALLEBS (voice-over): Psychologist Susan Heitler has spent 30 years counseling troubled married couples. She says, it's true, more than 50 percent of married people will cheat but they usually only cheat once.

HEITLER: Most people who have affairs slip in inadvertently, naively into relationships.

CALLEBS: Heitler says nearly four out of five marriages rocked by infidelity do survive. However, Heitler says this company could ruin many lives. But the king of infidelity believes those lives would likely be ruined anyway.

MORGENSTERN: We probably have all been buying into a shoddy bill of goods, in that monogamy is, indeed, a failed experiment and that we have a really hard time staying loyal to our partners. CALLEBS: Morgenstern is a father and says he's happily married, and will never cheat on his wife, Marissa. As for Marissa, she supports him completely.

MARISSA MORGENSTERN, DARREN'S WIFE: I always tell Darren I'm his cheerleader. So while he's out there, I'm here cheering him on.

CALLEBS: There are concerns with a Web site like this -- violence, stalkers, and especially the potential for blackmail.

MORGENSTERN: You've got to assume anybody that you meet on the internet is probably not telling the truth.

CALLEBS: Our unfaithful couple, for example, each had met other people through Ashley Madison, and she has even counseled some men warning not to reveal too much.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I've been involved with a couple of men from high profile places who I know everything and anything about them, where they live, what they do. As far as blackmail goes? It would be the wrong thing to do. But they leave themselves vulnerable.

CALLEBS: After today's brief encounter, our couple goes back home to their respective spouses. Morgenstern says there's nothing immoral in what he's doing. He's just making it easier for couples to do what they want.


ZAHN: That was Sean Callebs reporting for us tonight. Joining me now, the man who came up with the idea for a dating Web site for cheaters, Darren Morgenstern. Welcome. Darren, here's what I don't get. On one hand, you say you're not promoting cheating. On the other hand, you're providing a venue for people to screen for a potential affair. You can't have it both ways here.

MORGENSTERN: Well, we don't promote cheating because you truly can't convince somebody to cheat. And it doesn't matter how many times you advertise to them. I mean, you can barely get somebody to switch a brand of toothpaste just by advertising to them, let alone act outside their moral code.

These are people that would truly do it anyway. And we feel if you're going to cheat as a last resort, then you should start where it's safe to do so, where people aren't going to judge you and potentially even be sympathetic.

ZAHN: But even a psychiatrist we just heard from basically says you're providing a lure here. Even the slogan on your Web site says, "when monogamy becomes monotony." Isn't that sending a message to bored couples, here's a perfect way to do it?

MORGENSTERN: Well, in society, I mean, there are many opportunities to cheat. In fact, the majority of affairs spawn from the workplace. And the workplace holds up for an opportunity for people to go in, look their best, feel their best, be at the top of their game, potentially mistaken the intensity for a work project with that of a relationship.

So people are going to -- you know, where there is the opportunity, they're going to stray. They're going to find their way. If they're an affair waiting to happen, just like any good warrior, they're going to use whatever weapons are at their disposal.

ZAHN: You have said this is not sleazy. You obviously are defending a business which has made you a very rich man. But we also saw that you're a family man. Does this at all wear on your conscious, what you're doing here?

D. MORGENSTERN: I think if we felt that we were creating a marketplace, as opposed to just servicing one, then we would look a lot more carefully at it. We would consider it a lot more. But we know the market's out there. And people are going to do it no matter what. And we just feel that, you know, where we can provide a legitimate, legal service, where the people are adults, there's a balance of power, and where they're willing to pay for it, then we should be able to operate in the marketplace.

ZAHN: Finally, a quick answer to this, what do you say to your critics that say you're ruining lives here?

D. MORGENSTERN: I think anybody's who's considering an affair would have to take into consideration that they could possibly get caught and that they are playing with fire. And these people, you know, who would go down that path would do it with or without us. And people always have cheated.

ZAHN: Darren Morgenstern, thank you for joining. I appreciate your time.

D. MORGENSTERN: Thank you.

ZAHN: And coming up, a story that sounds like a legend, but it's utterly real. Just look at these pictures.


TIMOTHY TREADWELL, AMATEUR FILMMAKER: I love them with all my heart. I will die for them. I will protect them. But I will not die at their claws and paws.


ZAHN: He was wrong. Especially when you're talking about grizzly bears. But he left us an amazing record of his life. You don't want to miss it.


ZAHN: So, who in his right mind would camp out in the woods and try to make friends with grizzly bears? Well, that question is the heart of a fascinating new documentary about a man who actually set out to do exactly that. And as you might expect, died trying. Here's Brooke Anderson. (BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

TREADWELL: I love them with all my heart. I will protect them. I will die for them.

BROOKE ANDERSON, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): The opening scene of acclaimed director Werner Herzog's documentary film, "The Grizzly Man," offers a hint of things to come.

HERZOG: Go back. Go back.

WERNER HERZOG, FILMMAKER: I think it became some, not on (INAUDIBLE) nature, it became a film on our nature, on human nature.

ANDERSON: The human in Herzog's film is Timothy Treadwell, and for 13 Alaskan summers, Treadwell, an activist, educator and amateur filmmaker taped himself living dangerously close to grizzly bears.

TREADWELL: As you can see, I'm just feet away.

ANDERSON: In October of 2003, Treadwell and his girlfriend, Amy Huguenard, were attacked and killed by a brown grizzly bear.

TREADWELL: They needed a caretaker. They needed someone to look after them. But not a drunk person. Not a person messed up. So I promised the bears that if I would look over them, would they please help me be a better person.

ANDERSON: Herzog paints a complex portrait of Treadwell, a man who was passionate and committed, but also probably mentally unstable.

TREADWELL: They're hungry. Melissa is eating her babies! I'm like a (EXPLETIVE DELETED) nut.

SAM EGLI, FRIEND/HELICOPTER PILOT: Treadwell thought these bears were big scary looking harmless creatures that he could go up and pet and sing to. He had lost sight of what was really going on.

TREADWELL: I'm here with one of my favorite bears. It's Mr. Chocolate. Hey, Mr. Chocolate.

ANDERSON: But the bears weren't Treadwell's only passion. With two cameras and more than 100 hours of footage to choose from, Herzog speculates that Treadwell was also obsessed with his own stardom.

HERZOG: He saw himself in a grandiose mission. And he was everything, a rock star. He may have liked the film, yes, because he worked on something big. He always wanted to be a real great star, larger than life.

ANDERSON: It was Treadwell's final scene that gave Herzog the greatest pause.

HERZONG: What happened, we can only speculate. There was an abrupt, sudden attack. And Treadwell was on the outside of his tent, and his girlfriend, Amy Huguenard, who was with him, must have switched on the camcorder. This is Timothy's camera during the fatal attack. There was no time to remove the lens cap.

ANDERSON: Jewel Palavac, a former friend and companion who provided Treadwell's footage for the film, watches as the director listens to the audio from Treadwell's and Amy's final words.

HERZOG: Saying get away. Get away. Go away.

It is so horrifying, that I instantly knew, No. 1, we are not doing a snuff movies. And No. 2, it was instantly clear, there is such a thing as the dignity and privacy of your own death.

ANDERSON: Director Herzog decided not to include the audio of the mauling in his documentary.

TREADWELL: No one ever friggin' knew that there are times when my life is on the precipice of death.

HERZOG: We have to see Treadwell as a deeply troubled man. But at the same time, he was a man of courage. He was a man who had a vision. It's not simple to nail him down with this or that quality. That makes him so fascinating.

TREADWELL: Nice job.


ZAHN: What a story.

Brooke Anderson reporting for us.

Coming up, a question that every once in a while, like yesterday, becomes very important.


JEANNE MOOS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Which is worse, a virus or a worm?


MOOS: You're sure?



ZAHN: So, do you know the difference? Stay with us. Jeanne Moos had lots of fun trying to find out.


ZAHN: Time to give you a live look at what's happening in Crawford, Texas tonight, where it is the 11th day that the Iraq war opponent Cindy Sheehan has been camped outside President Bush's ranch.

Her son Casey was killed in Iraq last year. She's asked to meet again with President Bush. So far, he's refused. The liberal political action group says it's arranged 1100 candlelight vigils all over the country tonight to show support for her. At nine minutes before the hour, it's time for Erica Hill at "HEADLINE NEWS."

ERICA HILL, CNN ANCHOR: Scenes of anger and determination continue to play out in Gaza, as unarmed Israeli soldiers dragged settlers and protesters out of settlements. Officials say 60 percent of Gaza's 8,500 Jewish residents have already gone voluntarily.

Israeli Prime Minister Ariel Sharon and Mahmoud Abbas condemn the killing meantime of three Palestinians on the West Bank, calling it terrorism. Israeli police say the killer was a driver bringing Palestinian workers to their job at a Jewish settlement. The driver grabbed a guard's gun and shot two Palestinians in a car, then gunned down another outside. The other two Palestinians were wounded.

Ohio's Republican Governor Bob Taft going before a judge on Thursday to answer misdemeanor charges. He's accused of failing to report golf outings paid by other people. Now, Taft said it was just an oversight. It emerged into an investigation into state investments into rare coins settled by a top Ohio donor to the Republican party.

Michael Jackson avoids arrest warrant by finally sending a lawyer to answer a sexual assault lawsuit in New Orleans. The plaintiff alleges Jackson lured him into a limousine into 1984 and assaulted him over eight days.

The man was 18 at the time and claims he only remembered the attacked 19 years later. Jackson was already fined $10,000 for failing to answer to previous notification.

And Paula, that's the latest from HEADLINE NEWS at this hour. We will send it back over to you.

ZAHN: Thanks so much, Erica. Appreciate it.

So what happens when a worm causes all the computers in the news room to crash? Jeanne Moos starts asking the tough questions.



UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Well, it's this little squiggly thing that hangs and it's really gross and slimy and it's really screwing up my day.

MOOS: What happens when a worm eats the news room computers? believe me, it isn't pretty. And you don't want to miss it.



ZAHN: Well, there sure was a lot of excitement around here last night at this time. Computers started going down left and right sending everyone scrambling to try to keep CNN on the air. And it actually affected computers all over the world. The culprit, something called a worm. But what exactly is that in computerese (ph)? That's the kind of question that sends Jeanne Moos digging for answers.


MOOS: This is what happens ...

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Quiet down in here please if we're going to go on the air. Everybody.

MOOS: ... when a computer worm opens a can of worms in a certain cable news network.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Does that concern anybody?

MOOS: Tension went up, as computers went down.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We're cut off! We're cut off!

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We're cool. We're cool.

MOOS: But the guys from IT, information technology, were hot doing the 100-yard dash and worming their way beneath desks trying to deworm computers amid controlled chaos.


MOOS: All of this trouble caused by the worm that swallowed CNN. But when I hear that word, all I conjure up is the kind of worm you put on a hook, and when I see this word, it makes me feel like sneezing. Even as computers crash and shows struggled -- Lou, aren't you supposed to be on the air -- the answer to this question proved elusive. What is a worm?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It's this little squiggly thing that hangs and it's really gross and sliming and it's really screwing up my day.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Gooey and crawling through the computer system.

MOOS: We may all be computer dependent mouse potatoes, but we can't get this image out of our minds as if this is what's going on in the innards of our computers.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It seems to be something that just spreads really quickly. Like a worm.

MOOS (on camera): Which is worse, a virus or a worm?


MOOS: You're sure?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No. UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I, myself, I think would rather have a virus. That sounds like something that can be treated.

MOOS (voice-over): Viruses, worms -- what's next, vipers? when we tried to worm the information out of the guys trying to fix our computers -- can you show us a worm?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I can't show you a worm because it runs behind the registry.

MOOS: After all, a worm is just malicious computer code.

JOSEPH MAGEE, COMPUTER SECURITY EXPERT: You would see a bunch of ones and zeros and a number of other fragment characters.

MOOS: But a few ones and zeros can sure do a number when you're trying to do TV.

LOU DOBBS, CNN ANCHOR: Guys, I need a little communication particularly tonight from the control room.

MOOS: No mere worm is going to stop Lou Dobbs, even if few seem to fathom what one is.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Is this a worm?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The thing at bottom of a bottle of tequila?

MOOS: CNN wasn't alone. Another company that got hit earlier this week was Caterpillar. Talk about irony. Caterpillar got a worm.


ZAHN: Gee. Well, despite the scramble you saw in her piece, it appears the disruption from the latest worm was pretty limited compared to earlier techs. And it turns out the tech operators are much faster, respond to the warnings and get security patches in place, and are better at outsmarting the worms overall.

That's it for all of us here tonight. Thank you so much for being with us. Tomorrow, caught without oxygen at 30,000 feet. What would you do? Find out right here tomorrow night what you should do. Thanks again for joining us tonight. We'll be back same time, same place tomorrow night.