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Paula Zahn Now
JonBenet Ramsey Murder Suspect Turned Over to Colorado Authorities; Kidnappers of FOX Journalists Call For Release of Muslim Prisoners; Interview With Sister of Patsy Ramsey
Aired August 24, 2006 - 20:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
PAULA ZAHN, CNN ANCHOR: And welcome. Good to have all you with us tonight.
We are covering tonight's top stories in depth, starting with two developing stories happening right now.
Just moments ago, the plane carrying John Mark Karr from Los Angeles touched down in Boulder, Colorado. The suspect in the JonBenet Ramsey killing was turned over to Boulder authorities this afternoon in Los Angeles.
We're going to have all the details on that dramatic development in just a few minutes.
But we are also following the major developing story out of the Middle East right now. And that is the clock that is ticking tonight for two kidnapped Western journalists, missing for 10 days now. Captors have released a videotape of FOX correspondent Steve Centanni and his cameraman, Olaf Wiig. The kidnappers are calling for the release of all Muslims from American jails.
Let's go straight to the Middle East right now.
That's where our Chris Lawrence is standing by, in Jerusalem, and has the very latest on the efforts to free these two men.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
CHRIS LAWRENCE, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Authorities now have a videotape and written statement from the kidnappers, hoping they can help in the intense search for two journalists.
STEVE CENTANNI, FOX NEWS REPORTER: Ask you to do anything you can to try to help us get out of here.
LAWRENCE: Before Wednesday, no one had heard of the group that claims responsibility. The Holy Jihad Brigade is not one of the main militant groups in Gaza. They quote verses from the Koran, but make no explicit threats to harm their hostages. The group has promised to free the journalists if Muslim prisoners are released from American jails by Saturday.
JACOB WALLES, AMERICAN CONSUL GENERAL: Concessions to kidnappers, we don't intend to do that.
LAWRENCE: The American consul general told me, additional help is on the way from Washington.
WALLES: ... people who have experience in hostage situations. And they're going to be coming out here in the next couple of days to -- to support what we're doing here in the consulate.
(GUNFIRE)
LAWRENCE: By August 14, most journalists had rushed north to cover Israel's war with Hezbollah.
FOX News correspondent Steve Centanni goes west, into Gaza, with cameraman Olaf Wiig. Gaza is a small strip of land, with 10,000 people per square mile. Centanni and Wiig are in a supposedly safe area, when witnesses say they're cut off by two trucks.
A masked man puts a gun to their bodyguard's head. The journalists are dragged from the van and driven away. Palestinian officials immediately condemn the kidnapping.
Olaf Wiig's wife begs for their release.
ANITA MCNAUGHT, WIFE OF OLAF WIIG: They're good men, and they should be allowed to come home. Please, let him come home. Please.
LAWRENCE: In the past two years, 26 foreigners have been kidnapped in Gaza. All have been released unharmed, most within hours -- this time, no contact, no demands until the 10th day of captivity.
OLAF WIIG, KIDNAPPED CAMERAMAN: I love you all. Please, don't worry. I will do all the worrying for us.
LAWRENCE: Olaf Wiig's wife can't help but worry. On Thursday, she met with Palestinian officials in Gaza and taped a message of her own to the kidnappers.
MCNAUGHT: And we trust that you will continue to care for them until their release.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
ZAHN: So, Chris, as this deadline gets closer, give us a sense of what the reaction to that deadline has been on the ground?
LAWRENCE: Well, Paula, here's the problem.
Because of this abduction and the threat now to kidnap any foreigners caught in Gaza, we have had to change the way we do things. We can't go out on the street in Gaza, and talk to people, as we normally would.
Now, that said, officially, Palestinians have condemned this kidnapping, from the prime minister, to militant groups, like Islamic Jihad. Even Palestinian prisoners that are being held in Israeli jails have signed a letter directed at the kidnappers. And it asks them to release these two journalists immediately, and with no conditions. ZAHN: Chris Lawrence, thanks so much.
Now, one journalist who certainly knows how terrifying it is to be held captive is Bob Simon of CBS News. The award-winning "60 Minutes" correspondent was captured by Iraqi troops during the Gulf War in 1991. Simon and his CBS news crew spent some 40 days in Iraq's Abu Ghraib prison, before they were released. Bob Simon has also covered the Palestinian issue for many, many years on the job.
And he joins me now.
Good of you to join us.
Because you know what this is like firsthand, can you give us any sense at all of how these men might be reacting to this deadline approaching?
BOB SIMON, CBS NEWS REPORTER: Well, it's clear from the videotape that they're -- and they said that they're being well- treated. They're given water and food. And they take showers, and given clean clothes. That's better than the Iraqi treatment.
That means that they probably have a decent relationship with their captors. And, when you're in a situation of absolutely helplessness, you're relying entirely on the kinds of messages you're getting from the people who are holding you.
So, I suspect that the messages they're getting are rather amiable and reassuring. And I suspect that they're -- that they're OK, and they're psychologically OK, as well.
ZAHN: So -- so, they may not even be fixated on the same deadline that -- that we are looking at here...
(CROSSTALK)
SIMON: Well, as journalists, they probably know, as we know, that this deadline is -- is absurd. Asking the United States to release all Muslim prisoners within 72 hours, it's senseless. It's -- it's -- it's a deadline either drafted by total amateurs, which I think is the probability, or a deadline which is just out there to have a deadline. And it just doesn't mean anything.
And, significantly, the -- the -- that -- that very long, tedious text that the kidnappers put out didn't say what would happen after 72 hours. Frankly, I think they're going to be OK.
ZAHN: Well, we hope that's the case. But -- but why do you think this deadline itself might be meaningless? It certainly represents a big change in -- in tactics, if you will. It used to be that the -- that -- that they were very specific goals that these captors would want met.
SIMON: Specific and local goals.
ZAHN: This is so broad -- right, very local. (CROSSTALK)
ZAHN: This is something that no one believes...
SIMON: No.
ZAHN: ... the American government would ever deliver.
SIMON: It's also the first time that people who take hostages in Gaza have addressed anything to the United States government.
Until now, it was always addressed to the Palestinian Authority to give people some jobs in the past, is what it has been, or to the Israelis to release some Palestinian prisoners.
But this going to the United States, on one very broad intellectual level, it could be a case of the increasing identification of the United States with Israel in the area.
(CROSSTALK)
ZAHN: A linkage that has always been made.
SIMON: A linkage that has always been made, but, ever since, not only the Iraq war, but since this latest war in Lebanon, where the United States and Israel were so totally in the same corner every minute of the way, I think Arabs now are not distinguishing between the United States and Israel.
So, it could be significant that, for the first time, you have Palestinians making demands on the United States.
ZAHN: Do you see this as a radicalization of the conflict in Gaza?
SIMON: It could be, but this could also just be a bunch of kids.
I mean, Gaza now is such a totally -- is such a total mess now, is such a totally lawless place, where you have got armed factions and militias, and this and that. Until now, you would want to know, when a hostage was taken, well, is it Islamic Jihad, is it Hamas, or is it Fatah? Well, now, who knows who it is? Nobody has ever heard of this group.
The -- the language in their communique just is -- is these lengthy sections of the Koran, don't lead you in any direction. It could be a splinter group. It could be a -- a gang. It could be just nobody at all.
ZAHN: Well, the one thing we hope is, for certain, that your prediction is -- is borne out. And we hope these guys are OK, at the end of the day.
SIMON: Thanks.
ZAHN: Bob Simon, thank you for spending some time with us tonight. Appreciate it.
Coming up, we have got other top stories we're following tonight, including new developments in the JonBenet Ramsey case, suspect John Mark Karr, and why one woman's heartbreaking experience convinces her that Karr is, in fact, lying.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
ZAHN (voice-over): The long search for a missing child, and years of false hope raised by a dozen false confessions. Why do people confess to crimes they didn't commit?
Plus: politics and Plan B -- the morning-after pill goes over the counter, and a lot of people are outraged, mixing morals and medicine -- all that and much more just ahead.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
ZAHN: (AUDIO GAP) coverage now turns to the very latest in the JonBenet Ramsey murder investigation.
Just over an hour ago, John Mark Karr came one step closer to facing charges in the case. Karr is the only named suspect. His arrival in Boulder ends days of speculation about when he would be handed over from authorities in Los Angeles.
Susan Candiotti is in Boulder right now. And she brings us up to date on all the latest details -- Susan.
SUSAN CANDIOTTI, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Paula, John Mark Karr's arrival here was shrouded in about as much mystery and secrecy as a presidential trip to Iraq.
Before he landed here in Colorado, after a three-hour flight from California, no one was told exactly where he was going to be coming in. And, in fact, at one point, authorities even sent out a press release saying -- talking about parking rules at one airport, even though he arrived at another one.
But now Karr is in jail, having been driven here by motorcade. He has been fingerprinted. He is being checked out by doctors. And he's being kept away from other inmates.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
CANDIOTTI (voice-over): Karr will soon be settling in to one of these cells at the Boulder County jail -- next step, court.
The Boulder district attorney says, JonBenet Ramsey's suspected killer will be charged with one count each of felony murder, premeditated murder, first- and second-degree kidnapping, and sexual assault of a child.
Karr will be advised of his rights, including a right to remain silent, something he hasn't been so far.
JOHN MARK KARR, JONBENET RAMSEY MURDER SUSPECT: No. Her death was -- was an accident.
(CROSSTALK)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: So, you were in the basement?
KARR: Yes.
CANDIOTTI: He's expected to be held without bond, but can ask for a hearing to challenge it.
After that, he could be back in court in another two to three days, when charges are formally filed, and face a longer preliminary hearing, about a month later. That's when the DA has to show just enough evidence to try to prove to a judge that Karr murdered the 6- year-old beauty queen.
It's expected prosecutors may ask for a DNA sample. Attorneys who have worked on the investigation say, if Karr can't be linked to a spot of blood found on the child's underwear, the case against him may collapse.
CRAIG SILVERMAN, FORMER DENVER, COLORADO, CHIEF DEPUTY DISTRICT ATTORNEY: Can somebody have picked up chewing gum or a cigarette or a glass of water he had sipped from? There are lots of ways to get a person's DNA surreptitiously or through court order.
Once he gets to Colorado, of course, they're going to go through the legal process. But you would expect they have already had chances to get his DNA.
CANDIOTTI: Meantime, prosecutors are trying to keep a secret, what evidence they have, including what's contained in e-mails and letters Karr wrote to Colorado journalist and professor Michael Tracey that led police to the pale, thin teacher in Thailand.
Investigators want their search warrant affidavit kept under wraps for at least two weeks, so they can interview as many potential witnesses as possible, without telling them too much ahead of time.
John Karr may finally get his wish, allegedly made to cops while he was moved from Thailand this week: to prove he was able to slip into the Ramsey home Christmas night 1996, and explain the death of a blonde-haired beauty unsolved for nearly a decade.
And, a month from now, when he's expected to enter a plea, will the talkative teacher say he's guilty or not guilty, like his legal advisers say he will?
(END VIDEOTAPE)
ZAHN: So, Susan, you have just told us that the prosecutors are -- are keeping what they have got secret. So, at this hour, do we have any idea at all just how strong their case is? CANDIOTTI: We really don't know for sure.
But the fact of the matter is, they went an awfully long way to pick up somebody, if they don't have a strong case. And, as you know, Paula, that DNA is key. If they can't make a match, their case may be down the toilet.
ZAHN: Susan Candiotti, cutting straight to the chase there from Boulder, Colorado.
As we continue our "Top Story" coverage, we're just beginning to learn some stunning new details about the Ramsey case itself and the suspect.
As Dan Simon discovered, this isn't the first time John Mark Karr has gotten investigators' attention in a child murder case.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
DAN SIMON, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): The Sonoma County Sheriff's Office in Northern California says, it once looked at Karr as a potential suspect in the death of a 12-year-old girl.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: She was a great kid.
SIMON: Georgia Moses was killed in 1997, her body found in Petaluma, where Karr later lived. The crime remains unsolved, but authorities have ruled out Karr as a suspect.
During the course of that investigation, the sheriff's department says it was given e-mails believed to be from Karr that revealed a fascination with JonBenet Ramsey. They said the writer -- quote -- "made uncertain allusions placing himself in the killer's role."
The sheriff's office says, it forwarded its findings to Boulder authorities, who haven't commented.
WENDY HUTCHENS, CLAIMS CONTACT WITH JOHN MARK KARR: For five years, I have been saying, this guy is out there.
SIMON: The Sonoma County Sheriff's Department also acknowledged that this woman, Wendy Hutchens, supplied investigators with tapes of conversations she says she had with Karr. CNN has not been able to verify that it's Karr speaking on the tape. However, the voice indicates a clear infatuation with JonBenet Ramsey.
(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: JonBenet. God, what a powerful thing, to just be alone with that little girl, that doll face. You know, she -- she was just so incredible in mind, and so unreal in death. She's just so alive. She's so alive. She's so alive. She's so alive. I mean, she's wonderful.
(END AUDIO CLIP)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP, "GOOD MORNING AMERICA")
QUIENTANA RAY, FORMER WIFE OF JOHN MARK KARR: He had fantasies.
SIMON: One of Karr's former wives said he had a fascination with little girls.
On ABC's "Good Morning America," a seemingly traumatized Quientana Ray says, she married Karr when she was only 13 years old.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP, "GOOD MORNING AMERICA")
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: She was gone.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SIMON: Ray's parents also told "GMA," they remember, letters he wrote to their daughter were signed "SBCT," the same initials found on the JonBenet Ramsey ransom note. The letters were not provided.
KARR: I -- I love JonBenet Ramsey, and she died accidentally.
SIMON: Despite admissions like this, Karr's attorneys say they don't believe he has actually confessed, arguing that the media has taken his words out of context. They have advised him not to say anything further.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
SIMON: And those lawyers from Northern California are not licensed to practice law in Colorado. So, they tell me that they will probably have to team up with a Boulder law firm, if they're going to continue to represent John Karr -- Paula, back to you.
ZAHN: All right, Dan -- Dan Simon reporting for us tonight.
Thanks.
Still ahead: As John Mark Karr sits in a Boulder jail cell tonight, after being transferred from Los Angeles earlier today, I will be talking with Patsy Ramsey's sister about her hopes for an end to the mystery that has haunted her family for nearly 10 years.
And, then: We don't know yet whether Karr's claims are true, but a false confession must be the cruelest of all lies. Meet a mother whose daughter vanished 18 years ago who has endured the heartbreak of dozens of false claims of guilt.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
ZAHN: We continue with our "Top Story" coverage right now.
Tonight, John Mark Karr is in a Boulder, Colorado, jail. And investigators there will be able to question him closely about his claims that he was with JonBenet Ramsey when she died.
But many people have their doubts. And we can only speculate what JonBenet Ramsey's mother, Patsy Ramsey, would have thought. She died from cancer just two months ago today.
But, tonight, we will hear from Patsy's sister, Pam Paugh.
And she joins me now from Atlanta.
Good of you to join us.
PAM PAUGH, SISTER OF PATSY RAMSEY: Thanks for having me.
ZAHN: We know that, when we talked with you here at CNN about a week ago, you said: "We are just waiting for this day, for this day to come to light. And we always knew this day would come."
Are you feeling as optimistic tonight?
PAUGH: Yes. We will never let go of our optimism. We have been waiting for a very long time.
Some movement has been made. That makes us feel good, with respect to movement on the case. It hurts terribly, though, to be quite honest, that all of these feelings are being dredged up once again. We're still very fresh on the death of my sister. And that's very hurtful. But, you know, we're a strong family. And we have always stood on truth. And we will continue to do so.
ZAHN: Do you think John Mark Karr is telling the truth? Do you think he had really something to do with the murder of JonBenet Ramsey?
PAUGH: I believe that he believes he's telling the truth. And, you know, if he is, then the authorities will bring that to light. And, if he's not, they, as well, will determine that.
But, either way, this gentleman has seemingly put himself into this spectacle. And now we have got to see it through its course, and then deal with it.
ZAHN: On an emotional level, I can't even imagine the roller- coaster ride you have been on, from the time of his arrest, for having perhaps some sort of involvement in murder -- or at least saying he did -- to -- to now investigator after investigator saying they think he has made this whole story up.
PAUGH: Well, which investigators have said that? I -- I haven't heard that. I have heard people speculating on expert panels perhaps projecting that, but I haven't heard an investigator say that.
ZAHN: Well, we have -- we have talked with a -- a number here, off the record, who think that these stories don't make any sense at all.
But, in the end, if he's not telling the truth...
PAUGH: Mmm-hmm.
ZAHN: ... how disappointing will that be for your family, that...
PAUGH: Well...
ZAHN: ... the search will have to go on?
PAUGH: It's going to be another terrible shock for us, of course, Paula.
But we will go on. And we're very determined to find JonBenet's killer. We will not stop until we do. And, so, if it's not this guy, well, then that's just one more creep off the list, and we will keep on going.
ZAHN: What do you make of the fact that John Mark Karr's family is in touch with movie producers, potentially to do a deal about his story?
PAUGH: Nothing about what people will do for money in this country surprises me. And that's...
ZAHN: It doesn't surprise you, but does it sicken you?
PAUGH: Anyone who hurts a child, or who profits from the destruction of a family and the murder of a child, should be, by law in this country, kept away from any kind of financial gain, in my humble voter's opinion.
ZAHN: And I know, Pam, part of the reason why you're talking with us tonight, you have said you want to take some pressure off of John Ramsey and his son, Burke. How are they holding up through all this?
PAUGH: Boy, I will tell you, what John Ramsey has been through in his lifetime, he's a staunch believer that, in the Christian faith, there's something you're called to do, under obedience. And that is, when the opportunity comes, to stand fast on faith, through suffering. That is what you're called to do.
He has done that consistently since I have known him. And he will continue to do that, I suppose, until the day he dies. My fervent wish would be that the press absolutely honor their right to have a little privacy and respect.
John's trying to get his life back together, after just saying goodbye to a wife of 25 years. That's not easy to do under any circumstances. And Burke is back at school, with friends, trying to focus on his future. This is a very pivotal time in his life. And, please, respect their right to privacy. I beg you.
ZAHN: Well, you know what that means for you, Pam. We're going to continue calling you. And we really appreciate your joining us tonight and...
PAUGH: Thank you.
ZAHN: ... helping us better understand what you have all been through.
PAUGH: And I will be pleased to come.
ZAHN: Thank you very much. I -- I appreciate that, as well.
More of our "Top Story" coverage continues in just a moment.
First, though, let's turn to Melissa Long -- you remember her -- from Pipeline, our studio where our nightly countdown on the day's top stories continues.
Hi, Melissa.
MELISSA LONG, CNN PIPELINE: Hi, Paula.
Seventeen million people logged on to our Web site, CNN.com, today.
And many wanted to learn more about a story that ranks at number 10 tonight. In New York, a former bookkeeper pleads guilty to stealing $2.3 million from her employer in order to buy lottery tickets. She is facing up to 12 years in prison.
Dutch authorities will free a dozen men arrested yesterday on suspicion of terrorism, after causing a disturbance on a Northwest Airlines flight bound for India. Authorities say they had several cell phones, and appeared to be trying to pass them to one another shortly after takeoff.
And number eight takes us to rural Vermont, where two people are dead, four wounded, after a string of shootings. Police say the gunman was involved in a domestic dispute. He's now in custody. One attack took place at an elementary school.
There were no kids inside that building, Paula. School doesn't start until next week, but there still were about 30 staff members getting ready for the school year.
ZAHN: Scary stuff.
Thanks, Melissa.
LONG: Mmm-hmm.
ZAHN: See you in a little bit.
Next, our "Top Story" coverage turns to false confessions, and a mother who knows all too well the pain they cause. Her daughter disappeared 18 years ago, and more than a dozen people have confessed.
And, a little bit later on, our "Top Story" in medicine: the controversial decision to approve sales of the morning-after pill over the counter, a decision that ends a bitter three-year battle, but doesn't seem to satisfy anyone.
We will explain why. In fact, we will be debating just that. (COMMERCIAL BREAK)
ZAHN: More of our top story coverage with all of the questions about John Mark Karr's connection, if any, to the killing of JonBenet Ramsey, imagine the shock of his claims turn out to be lies. Now multiply that a dozen times. That's is exactly what happened to a woman you're about to meet whose nightmare of losing a child was only the beginning. Drew Griffin has her story.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
DREW GRIFFIN, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): From the moment she learned this man had stepped forward and claimed to being involved with JonBenet Ramsey's murder, Kim Swartz was skeptical. She believes John Mark Karr will turn out to be a liar.
KIM SWARTZ, DAUGHTER AMBER ABDUCTED: All I could think of is, you know, poor family. Here they are being told that this is the man that's confessing, only now they're being told that it may not be.
GRIFFIN: Because you have been in that position?
SWARTZ: I have been there many times, unfortunately.
GRIFFIN: She has been there, she says, a dozen times, a dozen men, a dozen lies. Kim Swartz's daughter Amber was abducted in 1988. She was seven years old. There has not been a trace of her since. What there have been are painful false leads from what she calls sick individuals who confess crimes they did not commit to satisfy their own sick minds.
SWARTZ: For some reason the situation seems to excite them, you know, making contact with victim's families seems to arouse some weird thing in their brain and make them work this way. But, you know, the horrific pressure it puts on a family, you know, and the taxing on the police department, because all of a sudden everybody's scattering for this person, and they had nothing to do with anything.
GRIFFIN (on camera): Those false confessions have been coming almost nonstop ever since that Friday afternoon in June, 4:15 in the afternoon on a Friday, when Amber Swartz stepped outside of this house to jump rope and disappeared, 18 years ago.
This continues 18 years later?
SWARTZ: Yes.
GRIFFIN: And you don't feel like any of these people have a clue where your daughter is?
SWARTZ: I don't think so.
GRIFFIN: Kim thinks her daughter is dead but this mother, who knows tragedy, whose police officer husband was shot dead when she was pregnant with Amber, still clings to the tiniest hope Amber may be out there alive. SWARTZ: Today we mourn the loss of our children who are taken from us.
GRIFFIN: She has tried to turn her grief into good, helping California enact its own Amber Alert System, dedicating this park in her daughter's name. But the one thing that eludes her is the true ending of her daughter's life, and it is seeking that truth that keeps her opening her heart to new leads, wanting to believe one of them will be true.
SWARTZ: Maybe somebody will, you know, finally write me something and say where she really is. But the nightmares that come along with this kind of stuff aren't even funny anymore.
GRIFFIN: The latest nightmare came in this letter from a prison inmate just three weeks ago. The inmate says he has intimate details of Amber's death, details he'll never share.
SWARTZ: He's telling me it will be a cold day in hell before he tells me where my daughter's buried. Does that mean he's the killer or does that mean he just knows where she's buried?
GRIFFIN: What she says she knows is that the inmate is looking for power, looking for some attention. She thought the same of John Karr the moment she saw him.
SWARTZ: In their own mind I think they would be powerful because they would have every one's attention.
GRIFFIN: Looking at this man, you've seen his eyes, you feel he could be one of those people.
SWARTZ: I think it could be. I think that they love controlling and being in the center of the storm.
GRIFFIN: John Mark Karr has certainly thrust himself into the center of the storm. Interjecting himself at the scene of a horrific crime. Stating he was there the night JonBenet Ramsey was killed. He loved her. Her death an accident. Kim Swartz says she doesn't believe him. John Karr reminds her of so many that have come to her door, written false letters of confession. She also knows how much the Ramseys want it to be true. She wants a true confession for them, too, and for herself. Amber Swartz, who disappeared at 7 would be 26- years-old. Her mother would like to know if she was even allowed to turn 8.
Drew Griffin, CNN, Martinez, California.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
ZAHN: So what would move someone to confess to a crime they really didn't commit? Well, Richard Ofshe has worked on many high profile cases of false confessions. He also happens to be a sociologist at the University of California at Berkeley. Thanks for joining us. We just heard Kim Swartz say that she thinks this is all about power and grabbing attention. Why do you think people make false confessions?
RICHARD OFSHE, CONFESSION EXPERT: They do it for one of two reasons. They either do it because they're unbalanced, they want power, they're grabbing for attention, and they volunteer and say I did it. Or they do it because somebody else who wants power and attention coerces them into saying I did it. And that has to do with what happens in their interrogations. There are two reasons it happens. They're either interrogation driven or driven by the person who wants attention.
ZAHN: Well we certainly don't understand the circumstances at this hour under which John Mark Karr basically inserted himself into this crime, saying that he at least was there the night of the murder, didn't confess to the murder specifically. And also went on to make several other self-incriminating statements. Do you think he's lying?
OFSHE: Well, we don't know what caused him to make those statements. I just saw today for the first time an admission that he was interrogated. Up to this point the spin that the press have put on this is that he's volunteered all these statements. I don't think that's true at all. I think, if anything, the evidence that I know about suggests that he was interrogated and some of the things that he said that were wrong may have been the product of a badly done interrogation. Some of the ways in which he describes what happened are classic results of interrogation. And if his interrogation was not tape-recorded, it is going to turn out to be one of the biggest mistakes of this year that any police agency in America could make.
ZAHN: Let me share with you some new information we're getting from an up coming story in "People Magazine" where Thai officials say Karr told them that the DNA might not match but you can't trust the test and also said, in regards to his ex-wife giving him an alibi, it's normal that people in a family protect you. Doesn't that make it sound to you like he's gone to great lengths here to pass himself off as the killer, no matter what the circumstances were of this interrogation?
OFSHE: First of all, that the DNA, if it's a decent sample isn't going to be dispositive is something that someone can have an opinion about, but most knowledgeable people would simply reject that. Next maybe he wants attention. But the question is did he say, upon arriving at the police station, yes, I did this crime or what happened, what led up to it? We don't know until we know what happened in the interrogation. And to try to second guess it without any information would be very foolish.
ZAHN: Well, your guidance is very helpful because there are so many unanswered questions tonight, including what he was arrested on, so hopefully some of these details will become more apparent to us as the days go on. Doctor Richard Ofshe thank you for your time tonight, appreciate it.
OFSHE: Thank you.
ZAHN: And we're going to get back to our top story coverage in just a moment but let's quickly check back in with Melissa Long. LONG: Paula at number seven tonight an update on former Iraq prisoner of war Jessica Lynch. She's expecting a baby in January. Lynch suffered, as you'll recall, serious injuries when her unit was caught in a fire fight in 2003. She was captured and rescued nine days later.
Number six, the Food and Drug Administration approves over the counter sales of the so-called morning after pill. There will be much more on this on the program tonight.
And number 5, the divorce between Tom Cruise and Paramount Pictures: the chairman of Viacom, which owns Paramount, says Cruise's statements about Scientology and also his recent behavior cost the studio up to $150 million in ticket sales for the film "Mission Impossible: 3." Cruise's representatives said he told the studio weeks ago that he had no plans to renew his deal. It is the end of a 14-year partnership dating back to movies such as "Top Gun." So it's been a long time.
ZAHN: A classic he said, he said, huh?
LONG: Yeah. Exactly.
ZAHN: Melissa, thank.
LONG: Sure.
ZAHN: Coming up next, the controversy over the morning after pill just approved for over the counter sales. Will it actually cut down on unwanted pregnancies, or as some have charged, promote promiscuity. We're going to have a top story debate when we come back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
ZAHN: Our top story in the medical field is today's controversial decision by the Food and Drug Administration to approve nonprescription sales of the so-called morning after pill.
Now, many groups are hailing the move which came after a three year battle. But, opponents are vowing a strong fight.
Dr. Sanjay Gupta has more.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
SANJAY GUPTA, CNN MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: These two little pills contain a high dose of what's in a traditional birth control pill. It's called Plan B. And within taken within 72 hours of unprotected sex, it can reduce the chance a woman will get pregnant by nearly 90 percent.
Now women can already get it by prescription. Today, the FDA gave approval to sell it over the counter without one.
DR. STEVE GAULSON, FDA: They'll be able to get the product behind the counter, which means from the pharmacist, without a prescription. Younger women will hand the prescription to the pharmacist and get the product.
GUPTA: So, what took so long? Well, there have been several contentious issues including how the pill works. The drug prevents the ovary from releasing an egg. If that's already happened, it might keep the egg from getting fertilized, or from attaching to the wall of the uterus.
Critics say it's abortion.
DAVID BEREIT, AMERICAN LIFE LEAGUE: It destroys the lives of innocent human beings, tiny children that have been formed in the womb, sperm and egg unit, and new human life with unique DNA is created. And many of these children are being killed at a result of Plan B, the morning after pill.
GUPTA: But advocates and now the government disagree saying if a woman is already pregnant, the pills have no effect.
GAULSON: And it does not cause abortions. If there is a fertilized egg implanted in the uterus, taking Plan B won't have any impact on there.
GUPTA: Another hot button, what happens if teenagers have quick access to this medicine?
BEREIT: Well, if people are engaged in risky activities with absolutely no protection thinking well I've got this backup option, you'll see more risky sexual behavior and you will definitely see an increase, prevalance of STDs.
GUPTA: That's medical speak for sexual transmitted diseases.
But in large studies of older women, the FDA says that didn't happen.
So the FDA says those under the age of 18 will still need a prescription to get this medication, those over 18 must show proof of age to the pharmacist who will keep the medicine behind the counter.
Dr. Sanjay Gupta, CNN, reporting.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
ZAHN: And we have both sides of the debate over the morning after abortion pill. Joining me now, Cecile Richards, president of the Planned Parenthood Federation of America who supports the FDA's move. This is the lady here to my left. And Wendy Wright president of the Concerned Women for America who's opposed to it. Glad to have both of you with us.
So Wendy, there are some estimates that the widespread use of something like Plan B could potentially prevent an estimated 1.5 million unwanted pregnancies and 800,000 abortions. Isn't that something that your group is trying to do? WENDY WRIGHT, PRESIDENT, CONCERNED WOMEN FOR AMERICA: That's a hypothesis.
ZAHN: Why is it hypothesis? Isn't that your goal?
WRIGHT: It's our goal. But those statistics are completely made up.
We have to look at the real world experience: England, Scotland, Sweden, they have all made this drug nonprescription, so have they had a decrease in pregnancies? No. No decrease in pregnancies. But there is an increase in teen pregnancies. No decrease in abortions. There is an increase in abortions. And a skyrocketing increase of sexually transmitted diseases.
In fact proponents' own study out of UC San Francisco found no decrease in pregnancies.
ZAHN: Let's let Cecile take apart these numbers.
CECILE RICHARDS, PLANNED PARENTHOOD: Thanks.
ZAHN: Wendy's saying absolutely no decrease in unwanted pregnancies, no decrease in abortions. But you have seen an increase in promiscuity.
RICHARDS: Absolutely untrue. And there are no studies that say that.
First, I just want to open by saying I think it's so important that the FDA has finally approved over the counter access to emergency contraception, because the one thing we know at Planned Parenthood is there is one thing that does reduce unintended pregnancy and that's access to birth control.
Plan B is simply one more form of birth control. It's a great backup form of birth control for women. They've been using it for years. And now it's simply going to be easier to get.
ZAHN: Do you see the use of it as abortion?
WRIGHT: Well, there's terrible problem in the fact that this is a high dose of a drug for which the low dose of the very same drug requires a prescription.
ZAHN: But you didn't answer the question. Is it tantamount to having an abortion?
WRIGHT: And the proponents of this drug state that it operates in three ways. Delaying ovulation, preventing fertilization or inhibiting implantation of an embryo. It's that third way is problematic. And at the very least, they need to be honest with women, so women can make up their own minds. If they want to take a drug that could end a new life.
Instead they use this vague language of oh, it doesn't end a pregnancy. But that's because their definition of pregnancy is implantation. What women want to know is when does a new life begin and will this end a new life?
ZAHN: I want to move on to the issue of you're not completely hailing this move because you don't think anybody should have to have a prescription to get this over the counter.
RICHARDS: That's correct.
ZAHN: But doctors are out there saying there is no way 13, 14, 15-year-olds can do this in a safe way without some kind of doctor's supervision.
RICHARDS: Well, here's what -- Planned Parenthood works every day to prevent unintended pregnancies. And the fact of the matter is, there's an epidemic of teenage pregnancy in this country.
This year, unless we do something differently, 800,000 teenagers will become pregnant. And that's the highest rate in the industrialized world.
Planned Parenthood supports teens having information. And so when they do become sexually active they have access to birth control. And in this case, emergency birth control.
And I think the important thing to point out is, doctors, pediatricians, major medical organizations support unrestricted access for teens and Planned Parenthood is standing with doctors and with science on this one.
ZAHN: All right you two. We could go on and on with this but we've got to leave it there. We appreciate both points of view. Cecile Richards, Wendy Wright.
We're going to take a quick "Biz Break" right now.
(MARKET REPORT)
ZAHN: More of our top story coverage just ahead but quickly, before we get to that, let's go back to Melissa Long.
LONG: Paula there were at least ten explosions at a bomb recycling plant in Northwestern Louisiana. The story is number four tonight. More than 1,500 residents were evacuated, no serious injuries reported.
Number three, this hour's top story, John Mark Karr is now in Boulder, Colorado where he's expected to face charges in the JonBenet Ramsey killing. Paula.
ZAHN: Melissa thanks so much. We're going to check back with you in a little bit and we are going to take a short break. We'll be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK) ZAHN: In tonight's Life After Work segment, a successful career ends and a new one begins teaching kids that you can go way beyond the corporate ladder. Here's Valerie Morris.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
VALERIE MORRIS, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Sixty Eight year old Tom Reed is flying high now that he's retired.
TOM REID, RETIRED: Once that airplane takes off a feeling that comes over you is hard to describe. There's no other experience like it.
My name is Tom Reid, I'm with the Right Flight.
MORRIS: As a volunteer pilot for the nonprofit organization Right Flight, Reid helps deserving kids experience that same rush.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It's fun.
MORRIS: The nine-week program is open to fifth through 12 graders who sign a contract promising not to do drugs, drink, or smoke. They must also write an essay about what they've learned and must improve a report card grade by one level before flying.
REID: You cannot wipe the smile off of their face. I mean it goes from ear to ear. I get choked up even when I talk about it.
I figured I was going to retire, maybe go out and play some golf, go down to the beach, walk around the beach and see some sunsets, but I haven't done a beach since I moved here because I've been so involved with everybody else.
MORRIS: The former power company supervisor took an early retirement package and moved from New York to Myrtle Beach, South Carolina, along with Right Flight, Reid's also a Civil Air Patrol wing commander, volunteering with kids who want to join the Air Force.
REID: I still feel young inside and I still want to do all these things and being involved with the young children keeps me going.
MORRIS: Valerie Morris, CNN.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
ZAHN: Good for him. Let's go back to Melissa Long now to wrap up our count down.
LONG: A story today that I wonder if everybody has heard about by now, Pluto has been demoted. The International Astronomical Union says that Pluto doesn't meet its new guide lines, can't be called a planet, I guess therefore goes the saying of my very educated mother, just served us nine pizzas. I heard someone say earlier served us nachos.
And number one story takes us to Austria. A girl who it's believed has been held captive for more than eight years has been found. Her alleged kidnapper kept her in the basement of his home. She apparently escaped yesterday. This story still high on the count down on CNN.com and anybody that logs on right now can see a story detailing her ordeal.
ZAHN: What amazing turn in that story. Melissa thanks.
Coming up at the top of the hour Larry King interviews John Mark Karr's defense team and we are going to be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
ZAHN: Here's Larry, good night.
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