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Paula Zahn Now
American Contractors Kidnapped in Iraq; John McCain Criticizes Republican Party
Aired November 16, 2006 - 20:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
PAULA ZAHN, CNN ANCHOR: Hi, everybody. Thank you for joining us.
There is important news coming into CNN all the time. And, tonight, we are choosing these top stories for a more in-depth look.
In Iraq, we have got breaking news for you. Amid the car bombs and shootings, we are now getting word that American contractors have been ambushed and kidnapped. Can the U.S. still win the war in Iraq? Or is it another quagmire, like Vietnam?
On to the "Top Story" in politics: The front-runner gets started by criticizing his own party. Will that help John McCain finish at the White House?
And then on to the "Top Story" in crime: living under a huge dark cloud. Amid all the outrage over his latest book deal, see what O.J. Simpson's everyday life looks like.
Let's get straight to that breaking news right now from southern Iraq, where a supply convoy has been ambushed. Four Americans have been kidnapped.
We get the very latest on this breaking story from Jamie McIntyre at the Pentagon, Michael Ware in Baghdad.
Let's get started with Jamie.
Do we have any idea who may have ambushed this convoy?
JAMIE MCINTYRE, CNN SENIOR PENTAGON CORRESPONDENT: No, we don't.
In fact, a senior Pentagon official, just a short time ago, cautioned me that he's not confident in the numbers they're getting back in this initial report.
Here's what they're hearing, though, that a civilian convoy leaving Kuwait was ambushed or hijacked near Nasiriyah. Apparently, there were supposedly 19 vehicles in the convoy. As a result of this incident, they're calling it, they're saying that as many as 14 people were abducted, including, it is believed, four Americans who were working for this Kuwaiti-based contracting company.
The -- the incident took place in the southern part of Iraq, an area that was under British control, until it was recently turned over to Iraqi control. And Pentagon officials say that they believe the British forces are working with Iraqis to try to figure out exactly what happened. And that's basically what we know at this point -- Paula.
ZAHN: Michael fill us in on how tenuous that situation was, as you had the transfer of security over to Iraqi security forces.
MICHAEL WARE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes, essentially what happened is that the -- the Brits and the Italians, who were running Dhi Qar Province, handed over all responsibility to security of that province to the Iraqis back in September.
So, that means that coalition forces have -- do not patrol, by and large, through the provincial capital or through the countryside. They're largely restricted to major logistic spaces, U.S.-operated, that serve the whole mission here in Iraq.
So, what has happened is that, when that control was passed, this is into an area which is heavily dominated by Shia militias. So, nothing of this kind of nature would be able to happen without the involvement of some kind of paramilitary forces dominant in the south -- Paula.
ZAHN: And, Michael, I know we're just beginning to get our first details nailed down here. But initial reports suggested that maybe some of those Shiite militia had disguised themselves at this checkpoint as Iraqi security forces.
WARE: That practice is as common as -- as -- as, you know, the sun rising in the morning, Paula.
I mean, this is what happens a lot in this country, that there will -- there will be flash checkpoints, illegal checkpoints, with militiamen, or insurgent groups, or even just petty criminals, posing as police, as army, or as national police commando forces.
It is also a way that the death squads can gain access to houses with less resistance, flashing legitimate or fake identification. I mean, this is a very, very common practice, to the point where, when you run into a checkpoint in this country, you honestly do not know exactly who you're about to deal with.
ZAHN: And, Jamie, give us a sense of what kind of shockwave is sent, whether the Pentagon can confirm these numbers or not, that potentially four American contractors have been kidnapped.
MCINTYRE: Well, again, Pentagon officials are saying to be very cautious about these first reports.
They -- they have a saying here. The first reports are often wrong. They're not confirming any of those details, because, frankly, they're still trying to sort out exactly what happened. Again, it was not in an area where U.S. military forces were in direct control.
But just to -- to build on what Michael Ware said, you know, kidnappings in Iraq are very common. It is a very lucrative criminal activity. Many of them are done not for ideological reasons, but simply to -- to extract ransoms. And ransoms are often paid for the release of people. And that encourages more kidnappings.
So, we don't know what happened in this particular case. But it does appear, from the initial reports, that among those abducted were -- were four Americans. And we may hear more later from the U.S. military, as they're scrambling to put together some sort of statement.
ZAHN: And, if you get that information, we will come back to you live.
Jamie McIntyre, Michael Ware, thanks.
Well, the voters certainly made it clear last week they want something to change in Iraq, but what? Well, Congress is looking at extreme options this week, extremes in terms of ranges, ranging from a complete pullout, to flooding Iraq with more troops.
No matter what the U.S. does, Iraq will have to face the consequences.
So, we asked our Pentagon correspondent Barbara Starr to find out what each -- excuse me -- try that again -- what each option could mean for Iraq.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
BARBARA STARR, CNN PENTAGON CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): These days, the talk in Congress is, more and more, about how to get out of Iraq. So, the Pentagon is working on a broad range of options on what to do next.
GENERAL JOHN ABIZAID, COMMANDER, U.S. CENTRAL COMMAND: It goes all the way from increasing our U.S. forces, our U.S. combat forces, all the way down to withdrawing our U.S. combat force.
STARR: The last time the U.S. withdrew combat forces out of a war nobody wanted, helicopters flew off the roof of the American Embassy in Saigon.
U.S. planners do not want to see something similar in Iraq. But if full-fledged civil war breaks out there, the 140,000 U.S. troops may have little choice but to pack up and leave as fast as possible.
Troops might have to fight their way through insurgents, al Qaeda terrorists, and sectarian attacks.
COLONEL DOUG MACGREGOR (RET.), U.S. ARMY: I would be very concerned about the very high probability that we will face considerable danger as we withdraw.
STARR: If there is a phased withdrawal, as favored by congressional Democrats, it could take months to get all the people and equipment out of Iraq.
Thousands of tanks, vehicles, helicopters, and computer systems with classified intelligence would have to be packed up. And how would the U.S. protect the thousands of Iraqis who risked their lives working for the U.S. military from retribution, once their U.S. protectors are gone?
Many critics are skeptical of a phased withdrawal.
SEN. JOSEPH LIEBERMAN (D), CONNECTICUT: Withdrawal from attack in a time certain would be a disaster for the Iraqis, and, more -- more directly, for the U.S.
STARR: Some believe even the announcement of a phased withdrawal could in fact tip the country into civil war.
And what about the other extreme, sending thousands of more troops to fight in Iraq? About 2,000 additional Marines are already heading into combat in western Iraq. But General Abizaid insists that sending tens of thousands more troops, as suggested by some leading Republicans, would only be a temporary fix. Experts say, in the end, more troops might only provide more targets.
MACGREGOR: We're in a situation where, the more you -- the more Americans you introduce into the mix, the more anger, humiliation and frustration will manifest itself inside the population.
STARR: Both extreme options, pulling all the troops out, and sending of additional troops, are full of problems.
So, military commanders are pressing for the middle course, training more Iraqis to take on responsibility. The only problem is, that sounds an awful lot like stay the course.
Barbara Starr, CNN, the Pentagon.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
ZAHN: And Barbara just mentioned Vietnam in a report and the options in Iraq, sounds like exactly what this country struggled through some 35 years ago.
So, think of the irony in this. Just hours from now, Air Force One will touch down in Hanoi, and President Bush will become only the second U.S. president to visit Vietnam since the end of that war -- the president, struggling to win the war in Iraq, a guest in a former enemy's capital for a summit of Pacific Rim leaders.
Joining me now from Hanoi, white House correspondent Ed Henry.
ED HENRY, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Paula, here at the APEC summit, the president wants to talk up trade, as well the North Korean nuclear crisis. But that may be get eclipsed by the symbolism of his first ever visit to Vietnam.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
HENRY (voice-over): This is the Vietnam President Bush wants to highlight at the Asia-Pacific Economic summit, hustle, bustle, Asia's fastest growing market for U.S. products. But it's still an awkward time for the President to visit Vietnam, evoking painful memories of another polarizing war, just as he's trying to chart a new course in Iraq.
ROBERT DALLEK, PRESIDENTIAL HISTORIAN: The similarities are so palpable, in the sense that we're now three years and eight months later, with the sense of being trapped there, caught in a quagmire.
HENRY (on camera): Even before arriving here in Hanoi, the president was asked about the parallels between Vietnam and Iraq -- an inevitable question that may overshadow this economic summit.
GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Support for our troops is strong here in the United States, and it wasn't during the Vietnam era. So, I see differences. I really do.
HENRY (voice-over): But, just last month, the president did see one similarity between the two wars. Asked about "New York Times" columnist Thomas Friedman's contention the recent spate of violence in Iraq may be the jihadist equivalent of the Tet Offensive, the president said, that could be right.
The 1968 Tet Offensive turned Americans against the Vietnam War by undercutting President Lyndon Johnson's rosy claims about the conflict.
Presidential historian Robert Dallek, the highly respected Johnson biographer, says Mr. Bush and his team are now in the same danger zone.
DALLEK: They were no longer credible. They kept saying: Things are going well. Mission accomplished. We're making progress.
And, after a while, people look at the realities, and they don't see this progress. And it reminds them again of the kind of rhetoric and illusory thinking that we had in Vietnam.
HENRY: Under fire, Mr. Bush has now pushed out much-maligned Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld, and is vowing to take a close look at the upcoming report from the bipartisan Iraq Study Group, which may call for a drastic shift in U.S. strategy -- signs, perhaps, that this president is starting here the echoes of Vietnam.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
HENRY: The White House says, another big difference is that Iraqis have already ratified a new constitution. They have elected a new government, unlike Vietnam, which is still under communist rule here.
But professor Dallek believes that this Iraq Study Group report will end up becoming a fig -- fig leaf, in his words, for the U.S. to pull out of Iraq, a modern-day equivalent of peace with honor -- Paula.
ZAHN: Ed Henry, thanks so much for that update. And we're going to try to do something a little bit different tonight. We have a "Top Story" panel joining us the entire hour, some really, really smart people, who can break down all the night's top stories for us.
And we're going to start with Iraq, and whether we are in another quagmire like Vietnam.
Joining me now, the Reverend Joe Watkins, a Republican strategist, liberal radio host Rachel Maddow from Air America, and TIME.com's Washington editor, Ana Marie Cox.
Great to have all of you with us.
JOE WATKINS, REPUBLICAN STRATEGIST: Good to be with you.
RACHEL MADDOW, RADIO TALK SHOW HOST: Nice to see you. Hi, Paula.
ZAHN: Hi.
(LAUGHTER)
ZAHN: So, is Iraq this president's Vietnam?
WATKINS: Well, I don't think so. I -- I think you have to wait to see what happens. And I think things are moving in the right direction -- a lot of differences.
ZAHN: Moving in the right direction?
WATKINS: They are. They are. I mean...
(CROSSTALK)
ZAHN: What can you point to that would suggest...
(CROSSTALK)
MADDOW: Yes, which direction?
WATKINS: The fact that they have ratified a constitution is a -- is a good thing.
The work now, the challenge now that needs to -- that still remains is, of course, getting the Iraqis to be able to govern themselves, and getting their people to be able to police themselves. And, if we can get to that point, of course, then we can withdraw our troops.
ZAHN: You haven't seen evidence of that yet, Rachel?
MADDOW: No.
I mean, I think the difference between Vietnam and Iraq is that, in Vietnam, we had a mission. In Vietnam, we took a side between North and South Vietnam.
In Iraq, it's an occupation right now. And you don't really win an occupation. Our task now is figure out how to end the occupation, or how to move on from the occupation, with the best outcome for our country, the least harm to our troops, and hopefully salvaging something of what we have done to Iraq. There's no winning at this point.
ANA MARIE COX, WASHINGTON EDITOR, TIME.COM: To say that we -- all we need -- all we need to do is to get a functioning government in Iraq seem -- makes it sound like it's just something we have to check off the list.
It is not really going to be that simple. And something that I -- I actually haven't heard anyone talk about, but is incredibly relevant to both Vietnam and this, is, historically, when a war starts to lose popularity, it never gets back. It never regains that popularity again.
(CROSSTALK)
WATKINS: Not always so, though.
Remember, I mean, anybody that wants to govern or do foreign policy by a public opinion poll -- opinion poll -- is in trouble.
Neville Chamberlain is the poster child for not -- for -- for why you don't do foreign policy by public opinion poll.
(CROSSTALK)
COX: I wouldn't recommend that he do foreign policy by public opinion poll. But I would say that he's in trouble in looking for a strategy that is going to be anything but disastrous for him.
(CROSSTALK)
MADDOW: It's picking the least -- least worst option at this point.
(CROSSTALK)
COX: That's exactly...
(CROSSTALK)
ZAHN: But let's -- let's forget about public perception for a moment. Let's -- let's talk about what is considered success.
You have got...
WATKINS: Containment.
(CROSSTALK)
WATKINS: Containment, for the most part. ZAHN: All right.
WATKINS: I mean...
ZAHN: And some Republicans think that -- that you need to be there for another 18 to 24 months. You got John McCain that's saying send in an additional 23,000 -- 20,000 troops now, even if it bleeds down forces for another fight.
WATKINS: Well, you have got to...
(CROSSTALK)
ZAHN: And, then, you got some Democrats saying, start to bring them home now.
WATKINS: Well, I -- I think it is a mistake to...
ZAHN: How does public perception change any of that?
WATKINS: Public perception, hopefully, doesn't change it. It's, hopefully, the -- the generals on the ground, who are not political people, who will continue to manage the war.
And what you don't do is, you don't telegraph to the enemy -- no matter what you want to do, you don't telegraph to the enemy what your next move is. You don't say to the enemy, oh, we're going to withdraw the troops beginning tomorrow, or beginning next month, or what have you.
MADDOW: OK, let's be secret about it and withdraw the troops, then.
(LAUGHTER)
MADDOW: I mean, the whole idea that the enemy is somehow biding time and not doing everything they can against us because they think we're going to be around, they don't have some new big thing they're going to launch against us once they think we're leaving.
Things are really bad right now, Joe. Things are approaching civil war right now.
WATKINS: They are. But you don't cut and run.
MADDOW: We have a choice about whether to keep doing what we're -- keep doing we're doing, or come up with a new idea. I would like a new idea.
COX: I think where public opinion does play into this, where it's important, is that Democrats may realize that there's nothing that they can do to change the game that is going to make the war a winner for them.
MADDOW: Yes.
COX: I think that, no matter what happens, the public has soured on it, no matter who is in charge.
ZAHN: But not only that. It's not -- the Democratic Congress can't change the policy. That's up to the president.
COX: Well, that's true, also. But the thing is, like, I think...
WATKINS: And the commanders on the ground, the generals on the ground.
COX: Right. I agree.
WATKINS: It is up to them as well.
COX: I think that Democrats have staked this -- this -- they -- they were very conservative in their message, I would say. And they didn't say much about what they were going to do, and they got elected.
WATKINS: Democrats?
COX: Yes. Right.
WATKINS: They just said, we're not Republicans. That's what they said.
(CROSSTALK)
ZAHN: Save it. Save it. Save it.
We will come back and talk about the Democrats and the Republicans and who might be running for president in 2008.
Ana Marie, please hang around, Reverend Joe Watkins, Rachel, as well.
Stay with us for more of our expert panel to slice and dice the stories of the day.
And, then, we will keep following the breaking news out of Iraq.
But, next, tonight's top stories in politics: John McCain kicking off his run for the White House by telling his fellow Republicans what they're doing wrong. And it is quite a laundry list.
And, a little bit later on, the "Top Story" in crime is all the outrage over O.J. Simpson's new book, "If I Did It." Coming up, see what his everyday life is like, why he's reportedly pocketing $3.5 million for this book that the Goldmans say they're going to take every cent of.
We will be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
ZAHN: There are two top stories in politics tonight. Don't let the Democratic smiles fool you. There was a bruising battle today for House majority leader. And incoming House Speaker Nancy Pelosi's candidate lost. In just a minute, I'm going to ask our "Top Story" panel if Nancy Pelosi blew it by backing the ultimate loser.
But, first, today's top political story: Senator John McCain began his quest for the White House today, setting out his vision of America ought to stand for, and what his own party is doing wrong. He just wrapped up his second speech of the day.
And here's senior political correspondent Candy Crowley with the latest.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
CANDY CROWLEY, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): John McCain filled out the paperwork for a presidential exploratory committee today, but, in word and deed, he's way past exploring.
SEN. JOHN MCCAIN (R), ARIZONA: Commonsense conservatives believe that the government that governs least governs best.
CROWLEY: He's testing out themes, and it is not just what he's saying, but who he's saying it to, conservative groups, AKA, the people who vote in Republican primaries, the people upset with George Bush for, among other things, decidedly nonconservative spending, and the people suspicious that McCain's maverick impulses make him an unreliable ally.
McCain is buffing up his creds, soothing the qualms.
MCCAIN: We were elected to reduce the size of government and enlarge the sphere of free and private enterprise. We increased the size of government, in the false hope that we could bribe the public into keeping us in office.
(APPLAUSE)
MCCAIN: And the people punished us.
CROWLEY: In conservative world, there is but one godfather to the movement.
MCCAIN: Let's invite a genuine contest of ideas within our party and with the other party, for conservatism, as Ronald Reagan told us, is not a narrow ideology.
CROWLEY: What does it say when a speech mentions Ronald Reagan 10 times and George Bush not at all, except by inference?
Without naming names, McCain criticized elements of U.S. military policy, the war in Iraq, and the aftermath of Katrina.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
CROWLEY: First a rival, then begrudging supporter, and, finally, needed ally to the president, McCain seems to be backing away now.
What you can say about a speech like this is, the Bush era is fading, and McCain looks back to the Reagan years to launch himself into the future -- Paula.
ZAHN: So, Candy, can you explain to all of us tonight how John McCain will square his position of potentially adding as many as 20,000 more troops on the ground in Iraq with this anti-war electorate that has surfaced during this last election?
CROWLEY: Well, a couple things.
He, first of all, thinks that his credibility and his credentials on this matter -- former POW -- he served on a lot of military committees -- will help him through this, and the -- the fact that he says -- quote -- "says what he means, means what he says."
But, more than that, if you listen to McCain now, he's beginning to say, if we're going to win this, we have to put more troops in. If we no longer have the will to win, then, we can't be sending these kids back for a third tour of duty in Iraq.
So, he's going back to Iraq. He mentioned that today. He will come back and have further things to say. But you can already see that he's beginning to say, if we're not going to do that, then, you know, there's no sense in sending these men and women back again for sometimes a third tour of duty.
ZAHN: Candy Crowley, thanks.
By every indication, as you can see, John McCain already running for president, and the new Democratic majority on Capitol Hill is already fractured. Shouldn't we just fast-forward to 2008 and try again?
Let's go back to our "Top Story" panel now, the Reverend Joe Watkins, liberal radio host Rachel Maddow, and TIME.com's Ana Marie Cox.
Welcome back.
Let's talk about John McCain.
Does he have the stuff to get the nomination?
WATKINS: He's a legitimate...
ZAHN: No, I want to start with Ana Marie.
(CROSSTALK)
WATKINS: Oh, darn.
(LAUGHTER)
ZAHN: You went first last time. WATKINS: Darn.
ZAHN: He's so eager.
(LAUGHTER)
COX: Girls first.
ZAHN: Slow down, Reverend. Slow down.
(LAUGHTER)
ZAHN: I have never been able to tell -- to tell a reverend, stop.
COX: He -- he definitely does.
And I was just thinking, watching that segment, how McCain does have this enormous credibility with a lot of independent voters and a lot of Democratic voters, because he comes up there and he says: I know that we -- we haven't done something right. I know that we have made mistakes.
And that, I think, like, people just want to hear that, especially Democrats and independents.
(LAUGHTER)
COX: Republicans don't want to hear that as much.
But, you know, he is a real realist about this war. I remember, I was having a conversation with him not too -- not too long ago, where I said to him: You know, it's really too bad. It looks like we're fighting to a draw in Iraq.
And he said: I wish it were a draw.
ZAHN: Oh. Ouch.
MADDOW: Ouch, yes.
(LAUGHTER)
MADDOW: I mean, McCain has a couple of challenges.
One is that, he has -- if he has such great ideas about what the Congress ought to be doing, what we ought to be doing in Iraq, he does have some explaining to do about why he wasn't able to get those ideas across when Congress -- when Congress was controlled by the Republicans for the last six years.
WATKINS: Well, he...
(CROSSTALK)
MADDOW: If he's not that influential in Congress, how influential is he going be in the presidential field?
WATKINS: No, this is a guy -- this is a guy...
(CROSSTALK)
COX: But that's to his credit with Democrats.
WATKINS: ... who has worked well with Democrats.
(CROSSTALK)
WATKINS: Think about it. he's worked -- he's -- he's teamed up with the most unlikely Democrats to get things done in the Congress.
ZAHN: Close friends with John Kerry...
WATKINS: Think about that...
ZAHN: ... nevertheless.
WATKINS: Think about that.
Now, this is a guy that is a legitimate war hero, a Vietnam War hero, was a prisoner of war, of course.
MADDOW: That's apparently not enough anymore.
COX: Yes.
(CROSSTALK)
MADDOW: That's apparently...
WATKINS: Well, no, it's not enough, not enough.
(CROSSTALK)
WATKINS: We -- no, we understand this.
MADDOW: We will see if -- you think the Democrats will swift- boat him, Joe?
(LAUGHTER)
MADDOW: We will see.
WATKINS: But what I like about John McCain...
(CROSSTALK)
WATKINS: ... he's -- he's so commonsense. And he -- he's a straight shooter.
(CROSSTALK)
ZAHN: Are you crazy about the idea that he just kind of whacked at you Republicans today?
WATKINS: Well, you know what the good thing is...
(CROSSTALK)
ZAHN: He had a long list of what you guys have done wrong..
(CROSSTALK)
WATKINS: When you lose, you got to figure out what went wrong.
(CROSSTALK)
WATKINS: And John McCain just addressed it straight on. He didn't say, oh, well, we shouldn't have lost. He said, we lost. We have got to change some things. Here's what we have to change.
(CROSSTALK)
MADDOW: They got stomped.
(CROSSTALK)
ZAHN: Let's fast-forward to Rudy.
COX: Oh, to Rudy? Right.
(LAUGHTER)
(CROSSTALK)
ZAHN: As in -- right as in...
(CROSSTALK)
COX: Yes, as in no way.
I mean, it's sort of -- you know, he's -- he's been married three times, the first time to his second cousin. He lived with his mistress, you know, in -- in his official residence.
I think he had a pair of gay dog walkers that worked for him. He's pro-choice and anti-gun. He is going to open up a -- like a parental planning clinic in the White House, and take away the guns, and perform gay marriages.
(LAUGHTER)
COX: I mean, this is not a candidate. It is -- it's lovely to live in a world where -- where -- where Rudy Giuliani get the GOP nomination. I would want to live in that world.
(CROSSTALK)
WATKINS: He's strong -- he's strong on national defense. And, of course, he has a great reputation for having been so strong during the September 11 crisis. But he has the bigger challenge of getting through the primaries, with Republican voters, who are conservative on values issues. - MADDOW: Yes. It is never going to happen.
(CROSSTALK)
COX: And don't know a lot of this stuff.
ZAHN: Rachel is shaking her head, no, no, no.
MADDOW: It is never going to happen, no.
I mean, Giuliani has always been more reputation than accomplishment. And he does have a reputation, coming from being a big city mayor. That is not necessarily enough to get you through the presidential nominations.
But the other thing about Giuliani that nobody ever admits is that he's physically really hard to look at. And that matters in presidential politics.
(LAUGHTER)
ZAHN: Excuse me?
MADDOW: He's -- he's -- I mean, I'm no beauty queen. But Giuliani is kind of physically hideous.
COX: Wow.
MADDOW: And that matters...
(LAUGHTER)
MADDOW: ... in presidential politics. We don't want it to be true, but it does.
WATKINS: Well, now.
(LAUGHTER)
(CROSSTALK)
WATKINS: I would like to think that...
(CROSSTALK)
ZAHN: Reverend -- Reverend, what do you say about that?
WATKINS: I -- I would like to think that people are able to see beyond a person's outward appearance into what their ideas and what their heart has to say.
COX: I think I have been in Washington too long.
(CROSSTALK)
MADDOW: ... you think he's hot...
(CROSSTALK)
(LAUGHTER)
WATKINS: I think he's got a lot of good things to say, of course.
So, Rudy Giuliani, don't take him lightly. He is going to raise a lot of money. He's going to a serious force to be reckoned with. But I think he's going to have trouble getting through those primaries.
(CROSSTALK)
WATKINS: Mitt Romney, on the other hand, is somebody who shares a lot of their values.
(CROSSTALK)
WATKINS: He's a very telegenic candidate who is going to raise a lot of money.
COX: That's his -- I think that's his biggest strength.
WATKINS: It is going to be very exciting to see what happens.
COX: Yes.
MADDOW: A Mormon from Massachusetts.
ZAHN: For the record, I don't agree with your assessment, but we all have our opinions, don't we?
MADDOW: I understand. I think I'm ahead of the curve on this one.
(LAUGHTER)
COX: Well, wow.
(CROSSTALK)
ZAHN: ... slice and dice our candidates by how they look physically.
All right, Reverend Joe, Rachel, and Ana Marie, we will be back with you in a little bit.
Another of tonight's top stories is the growing outrage involving a crime that is more than a dozen years old. Ted Rowlands is following that for us tonight. TED ROWLANDS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Paula, there is more fallout from O.J. Simpson's new book. Even O.J.'s own attorney is joining a long list of critics who say it is in bad taste. We will have more on the book. And we will take a look at what O.J. has been up to since the trial, coming up -- Paula.
ZAHN: So close in the studio, yet so far away, Ted.
(LAUGHTER)
ZAHN: See you in a little bit.
A little bit later on: the new TV channel that many critics claim is a platform for anti-American propaganda. We are going to hear from the people behind the new English-language version of Al-Jazeera.
Please stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
ZAHN: We move on to the top story now in crime tonight. The growing outrage over O.J. Simpson's new book. As word spreads about this one, so does the anger. He has written a firsthand account about the murders of his ex-wife and her friend, if, as he puts it, he done it.
A jury cleared Simpson of the crime in 1995, so he can't be tried again. That would be double jeopardy. That's not allowed. But it seems he can try to make a lot of money from it.
Here's Ted Rowlands.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
TED ROWLANDS, CNN CORRESPONDENT (on camera): Even O.J. Simpson's own lawyer in Florida is coming out against the book. Yale Galanter (pg) insists he had nothing to do with the deal and he told us this about his client's book and television appearance, quote, "If I was asked whether to do it, I would have said no, it's in bad taste."
In fact, many people believe that O.J. Simpson and anyone else who stands to profit from his book and show, are cashing in on murder. "If I Did It" reads like a detailed account of the brutal slayings of Simpson's ex-wife Nicole and Ronald Goldman, told by O.J. Simpson as though he were the killer.
ANNOUNCER: O.J. Simpson: If I Did It, Here's How It Happened.
ROWLANDS: The Fox network decided to air two hour long O.J. specials and has started promoting it.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I was offered the interview and turned it down every single time.
ROWLANDS: Other networks, including ABC, turned O.J. down. In a statement, NBC says it was approached but quote, "We did not feel it was appropriate for our network."
Nobody from Fox would talk to us about why they decided to run the show. Reagan Books, the publisher, which is owned by Fox's parent company, also declined an interview.
The victim's families are urging people not to watch the special or buy the book. But many experts think both will end up making a lot of money.
MARVET BRITTO, PUBLICIST, THE BRITTO AGENCY: I think people are going to be just as interested in reading the book and watching the interview as they were in following the trial. I think there's a fascination with O.J.
ROWLANDS: The book is already on sale on Amazon.com. Borders and other major retailers say they plan to sell it. Wal-Mart released this statement, saying, quote, "We plan to carry the book in our stores and on walmart.com as initial indications suggest it is likely to be highly a sought after title."
A Murder, Inc., a small Manhattan bookstore specializing in crime, the owner there told us he doesn't plan to stock it, and customers we talked to were vowing not to buy it.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Most of us already believe we know that he's probably participated in this horrible act. And I certainly wouldn't want to participate by paying any of my money.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: If he did murder his wife, he's proceeding to cash in on the whole thing again.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Leave the writing of books for the writer, not for the football actors -- criminals. And also the message crime pays, it's upsetting.
ROWLANDS: Simpson owes more than $30 million to the Goldman family. They plan to go after anything he makes on this deal.
FRED GOLDMAN, FATHER OF RON GOLDMAN: I would imagine that, knowing him and knowing his various, disgusting team that he works with, that he's probably been paid that money already.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
ROWLANDS (on camera): And one of the things, Paula, that they will be watching, the Goldmans and the other family members is to see if anybody helped O.J. conceal this money. And you can bet that the lawsuits will be flying.
ZAHN: I can hear, follow the money, follow the money.
What are the chances that there will be an official boycott that's formed here?
ROWLANDS: They'll try, but, quite frankly, it is very unlikely. People are going to watch and people are going to read this. ZAHN: Everybody's kind of predicting this will be a best-seller, whether they think he murdered her or not.
Ted Rowlands, thanks.
There's outrage, plenty of it, and curiosity over Simpson's new book. Our in-depth look at the O.J. Simpson story continues. We're going to see what his everyday life is like. His football days are long gone. He isn't working. So what is it that does do every day?
And a little bit later on, the top story in TV tonight: a brand- new television channel that brings you a world view that may clash with everything you've ever seen. But is it, as critics claim, a platform for anti-American propaganda?
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
ZAHN: Our top story in crime continues with the outrage over O.J. Simpson's new book, in which he writes about killing his ex-wife and Ronald Goldman, hypothetically.
He owes the Goldman family more than $30 million because of the wrongful death verdict against him. But he hasn't paid any of it. So a lot of people are curious to see what might happen to all that money from this new book.
In the meantime, with a $300,000 a year NFL pension and a big house in Florida, Simpson seems to be living pretty well. Take a look at what Susan Candiotti has found.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
SUSAN CANDIOTTI, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Friends say O.J. Simpson would play golf every day if he could. It's one of his favorite pastimes in Florida. He has no steady job, two kids away at a college, a lot of time on his hands.
DAVID PEREL, NATIONAL ENQUIRER: He leads quite an enjoyable life, much to the dismay of the relatives of his victims.
CANDIOTTI: The families of murder victims Nicole Simpson and Ronald Goldman cannot touch the Miami home that O.J. bought for $575,000. Florida law protects that asset from helping to pay off the $33 million wrongful death judgment against him in California, one of the reasons he's said to have moved to Miami in 1999. Golfing pal Del Von Campbell (ph) has known Simpson for more than a decade.
(on camera): Does O.J. like living in Florida?
DEL VON CAMPBELL, FRIEND: Yes, he does.
CANDIOTTI: What does he like about?
CAMPBELL: Well, it's more laid back than Los Angeles and, you know, nobody hassle him as much as they used to. CANDIOTTI (voice-over): But O.J. has had plenty of legal hassles. In 2000, the police were called after a fight with his girlfriend Christine Proutti (ph). She allegedly kicked and slapped him. No charges were filed.
Later that year, he was charged in a road rage case, accused of grabbing a most motorist's eyeglasses. Avi Ripkin (ph) prosecuted Simpson. In 2001, a jury found him not guilty of assault.
(on camera): What is the one thing that troubles you the most about the incident?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: What bothered me the most and what still bothers me to this day is that this occurred while his children were in the park. What stopped this entire attack was one of the children screaming, no, daddy, no.
CANDIOTTI (voice-over): That same year, the FBI and DEA searched Simpson's home for drugs and a stolen satellite TV hookup. No charges were ever filed, but Simpson was slapped with a $25,000 civil fine by Direct TV. He appealed.
In public Simpson is mostly all smiles, gladly signing autographs and posing for pictures. Friends say his biggest worry is money, making a few hundred dollars for each appearance.
CAMPBELL: For instance, in, like, clubs, or maybe to host a birthday party, you know, how much money can he make from that?
CANDIOTTI: As recently as last month, the Goldman family has claimed Simpson has been making money and failing to use it to pay off the civil claim against him. Absolutely, positively not true, says Simpson's Florida lawyer, Yale Galanter.
Regardless, Simpson's book could make him much more.
Susan Candiotti, CNN, Miami.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
ZAHN: And we bring in, or bring back, tonight's top story panel. The Reverend Joe Watkins, Rachel Maddow, Anna Marie Cox.
All right. Whether we believe or anybody out there believes O.J. Simpson murdered his wife or not, I think we all agree this is pretty darn sick. What is he smoking?
REV. JOE WATKINS, REPUBLICAN POLITICAL CONSULTANT: Think about his kids. I mean, he's got two kids, that was their mother. Why would you do that to your children? Why would you put them through that kind of stress?
RACHEL MADDOW, AIR AMERICA RADIO: Even if you take the devil's advocate position, let's say O.J. did not do it. Let's say he is totally innocent of this.
ZAHN: Do you think he is?
MADDOW: No, I don't think that he is.
But even if you thought that, to be the person who's now profiting from the death of your wife and the mother of your children and this other guy, to be writing a book simply to make money -- but even if you didn't do it, is very destructive.
ANN MARIE COX, WASHINGTON EDITOR, TIME.COM: And also, just to give you the thought experiment of killing your children's mother.
WATKINS: That's, like, crazy.
COX: It's crazy.
And I have to say that in that scene, they said he makes money from appearances at birthday parties. Do you have to wonder about, like,who doesn't think, like, you know what I want for my birthday, I want O.J. Simpson to come.
ZAHN: You pose an interesting question, though, because the fact remains, whether we all think this is sick or not, this book is going to sell and will probably get a huge number on the Fox Television Network. So what does that tell us?
WATKINS: Well, it tells us that people are interested in the case still. It's sad, though, that anybody would profit of off somebody else's sadness.
I mean, still, think of the Goldman's. They lost their son and their brother. Think and Nicole Brown's family, I mean, they lost their daughter and their sister. Why would you profit off of that sadness?
MADDOW: It's morbid curiosity. It's the same reason that people will stop and look at a car crash. It's not because you approve of the car crash, but it's because you're humanly unable to stop yourself from doing it.
The question, though, is Fox, I think. I think the question is Newscorp, that they have decided Harper Collins is publishing this, Fox is airing the interview here. And Fox has made the decision along with O.J. to both profit off this.
And you know what? We can all condemn O.J., but we ought to be condemning Fox to.
ZAHN: Even Barbara Walters has joined that chorus. She went on "The View," we saw in Ted's piece saying that, I was offered this interview and I refused to do it.
COX: You have to wonder about whether or not -- if it was another network that was doing this, how much Fox News would, like, you know, gin up the outrage over there.
MADDOW: Right. Well, Bill O'Reilly has been trying to say that there's a big difference between Fox News Channel and Fox Broadcasting.
COX: Right.
MADDOW: There's a guy named Rupert who has something to do with both of them, but I can't quite figure it out.
COX: You know, and it's also true that I wonder how many people are going to be able to justify the purchase of the book to themselves, by saying, well, eventually, the money is going to go to the Goldman family.
WATKINS: Yes, but I don't think anybody buying the book can justify that. I mean...
COX: Well, I don't think so either. But I wonder what the logic is going to be.
WATKINS: The publishers are going to make the money, O.J.'s going to make the money. And they're going to make the money on somebody else's sadness.
ZAHN: If the Goldmans could make all the money, would it be worth it?
Could it?
WATKINS: It wouldn't bring their son back.
(CROSSTALK)
ZAHN: ... anything they'd be happy about profiting from it at all, obviously.
What, if it's not the money -- because O.J. Simpson's attorney said, if I knew he was going to do this, I would have told him not to do it -- what is his motivation? Can the guy just not stand being in the spotlight?
WATKINS: Maybe it's just the fame and the glare of the lights and the attention, because he's not getting a lot of attention now. And so this certainly puts him right back in the center of the attention, of America's psyche, and we're thinking about O.J. Simpson again. There are stories galore about him. There will be a ton more stories about him.
ZAHN: Are you going to read the book? Are you going to buy the book?
Anna Marie?
COX: No.
ZAHN: Reverend?
WATKINS: No.
ZAHN: Are you going to watch the special on Fox?
WATKINS: No, no. I'm not.
MADDOW: Psychologically, though, you know what? He knows that the world thinks he's guilty, there's no way that he can get away from this ever. And so I just imagine him at some nihilist conclusion, saying, you know what, they all think I did it anyway, I might as well make money of it. He's never going to be cleansed of this in the public eye no matter what happens.
COX: That he can't get dirtier. And I think this actually makes him dirtier.
(CROSSTALK)
ZAHN: I remember doing an hour interview with him long after the civil conviction. And I said, well, how do you sleep at night? And then I paused.
WATKINS: What did he say?
ZAHN: He said, I start on my left and then I turn to my right.
(CROSSTALK)
ZAHN: His wife having died was completely lost on him.
Well, Anna Marie, great to see you.
Rachel Maddow, and Reverend Watkins, glad to have you all with us tonight.
WATKINS: Good to be here again.
ZAHN: A great maiden voyage with three of you.
(MARKET REPORT)
ZAHN: Tonight's top story in television is a real eye-opener. But is it anti-American propaganda or real news? See you in just a minute, see the world through the eyes of the brand-new channel that some people think you should never get to see here in America.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
ZAHN: Now, on to tonight's top story in TV.
Some people call it anti-American, others say it is a mouthpiece for Muslim extremists. I'm talking about Al Jazeera, the controversial Arab language news channel. It has just launched an English language service that's been on the air for about 24 hours now, but it has no major U.S. distributor, so you can't see it here.
But just what did it look like after one day? Well, special correspondent Frank Sesno is watching very carefully.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
FRANK SESNO, CNN SPECIAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): The adrenaline rush of network news, where seconds count and words matter. But this network is different.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This is Al Jazeera.
SESNO: In the latest blast in the global news and information wars, Al Jazeera insists it'll break the Western monopoly and give voice to the oppressed.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: And Al Jazeera will be setting the news agenda.
SESNO: Day one, report from the Democratic Republic of Congo on its disputed election. From Somalia, peaceful for now. And from Gaza, a story about the humanitarian crisis among Palestinians. All coming from four big broadcast centers around the world, including Washington, where 425 people cram into an office on K Street.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: There's a lot of good work being done here.
SESNO: Will Stebbin, from Reuters, is the bureau chief.
WILL STEBBIN, AL JAZEERA ENGLISH: Al Jazeera International is going to offer a view of the world that is not colored, or doesn't come from within the context of any specific ideology.
SESNO: Anchor Dave Marash signed on after he lost his job at ABC when Ted Koppel left "Nightline."
DAVE MARASH, ANCHOR, AL JAZEERA ENGLISH: This network was conceived with the idea of proving something, which is that the news that happens outside of Western Europe and North America is as important as the news of the so-called first world.
SESNO: Riz Khan, formerly with CNN International, has a daily talk show.
RIZ KHAN, ANCHOR, AL JAZEERA ENGLISH: We're in a tight space.
SESNO: A judgment call lurks at every turn. For example, take use of the word "terrorist."
(on camera): Is Hamas a terrorist organization?
KHAN: I'm not one to judge.
SESNO: Is Hezbollah a terrorist organization?
KHAN: Same thing, you know, I'm not going to judge.
SESNO (voice-over): But in the U.S., Al Jazeera has got a big challenge. His parent network headquartered in the Persian Gulf, which has brought unprecedented political debate to the Arab world, but has also aired Osama bin Laden's diatribes, devastating pictures of Palestinian casualties, and gruesome footage from the war in Iraq.
DONALD RUMSFELD, SECRETARY OF DEFENSE: Let me just say that what Al Jazeera is doing is vicious, inaccurate and inexcusable.
HOWARD KURTZ, CNN: The Al Jazeera name is radioactive in the U.S. A lot of people aren't willing to give it a chance.
SESNO (on camera): No major cable or satellite system in the United States is carrying Al Jazeera International. People here profess to be unconcerned. Just you wait, they say.
(voice-over): Al Jazeera says the network is available to 80 million households worldwide, and in the U.S. is already hot stuff on the Internet.
The reviews so far are mostly kind. "The New York Times" says the new network "points to where East and West actually meet." "USA Today" writes, "in a globalized world, the broader the conversation and greater the competition for credibility, the better."
MARASH: We will live or die by the accuracy and the depth of our reporting. And I'm betting on us.
SESNO: Al Jazeera International claims it'll deliver groundbreaking journalism from a global perspective. But is there a single global perspective? Whose news will it really be? And will anyone in America be watching?
Frank Sesno, CNN, Washington.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
ZAHN: Doesn't look like it anytime soon on television, at least.
The original Al Jazeera is the top-rated news network in the Arab world.
One minute away from the top of the hour, "LARRY KING LIVE." Larry continues his series on the power of positive thinking. His guests say you can actually think your way to happiness. And a whole lot more. We'll be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
ZAHN: Ask any sculptor about what it is like to create, and they say there's something magical about making beauty and art from a lump of clay. And Valerie Morris shows us how one woman discovered that in tonight's "Life After Work."
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
VALERIE MORRIS, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Sculpting is more than just a casual hobby for 64-year-old Jean Dibner.
JEAN DIBNER, SCULPTOR: It is such a part of who I am. It's not what I do, it's who I am. MORRIS: Ten years ago, Dibner started taking night classes while she was still working as a senior executive in the high-tech industry.
DIBNER: I knew the moment I touched clay that something magical had happened. A very encouraging teacher, who took me aside after I had taken my first class and said, you are where many people are after they've been working at it for five or 10 years.
MORRIS: Dibner took an early retirement package in 1999 and started sculpting full-time. Success was soon to follow, as she won several awards and gained national recognition.
DIBNER: I think people of my age have a great deal of wisdom, and they have a story they want to tell. So I'm commenting on the incredible gift we have of life.
Wow, is that beautiful.
MORRIS: Dibner also shares her passion with students, teaching classes one day a week at her Boston home.
DIBNER: I know how important this aspect of my life is for me. And it gives me a great deal of pleasure to open that up for other people.
MORRIS: Valerie Morris, CNN.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
ZAHN: And that wraps it up for all of us tonight. Tomorrow, I will take you to Italy for the countdown to Tom Cruise's and Katie Holmes' Scientology wedding. What is a Scientology wedding? We'll explain tomorrow night, and we'll show you all the crowds lined up outside their hotel as well. "LARRY KING LIVE" starts right now.
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