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Paula Zahn Now
Former House Speaker Newt Gingrich Under Fire; Is Media Portrayal of Iraq Accurate?
Aired April 02, 2007 - 20:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
RICK SANCHEZ, CNN ANCHOR: And thanks for joining us. Paula has the night off.
And here's what we're going to bring you out in the open.
How would you feel if someone said that people who speak English, your language, presumably, are speaking a ghetto language? Hey, you probably would be offended, right?
Well, former Speaker Newt Gingrich was making a very valid point against illegal education, certainly very arguable. But then he went on to suggest that Spanish is a language of the ghetto. You are going to hear it for yourself. And you're also going to hear reaction from Gingrich's office for the very first time.
Also, this: Should a newspaper have outed gun owners who carry concealed weapons?
Plus, it's a Walt Disney classic, but it is horribly outdated, and, worse, is it racist? It's an argument a lot of people are making. And, because of that, should this one be one that Disney keeps in one of its vaults? That's what we're going to be talking about.
Let's get started, though, with the Newt Gingrich comment. Have you heard it? If you haven't, here it is with yourself.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
NEWT GINGRICH, FORMER SPEAKER OF THE HOUSE: We should replace bilingual education with emergence -- with immersion in English, so people learn the common language of the country, and so they learn the language of prosperity, not the language of living in a ghetto.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SANCHEZ: It's pretty obvious, what he's saying.
Now, let me tell you something else that is also important, in the interest of full disclosure. English is my second language. I arrived in this country speaking only Spanish, had to learn to speak English. Today, I speak both fluently. So, I get what Mr. Gingrich was saying about bilingual education. I was, as he would say, immersed in English. And it seemed to work, right?
Why, though, did he take it a step further and potentially insult every person who speaks Spanish, all the way from Madrid, to Miami, to Buenos Aires, and beyond? Why?
Well, some background. Mr. Gingrich is considering a run for the White House. And he was speaking to a very conservative organization of women, who, by the way, applauded the remark.
Let's begin now with Newt Gingrich's press secretary and spokesperson. He's good enough to join us on this day. It's Rick Tyler.
Mr. Tyler, thanks for being with us, sir.
RICK TYLER, PRESS SECRETARY FOR NEWT GINGRICH: Hey, Rick. How are you?
SANCHEZ: Is there an official explanation for why he said this?
TYLER: Well, I heard you play to clip. And, you know, he didn't say Spanish. But he's making a very valid point.
(CROSSTALK)
SANCHEZ: Well, hold on. Hold on a minute. What language was he talking about, then?
TYLER: The speaker was saying that people who speak who are -- take intensive language training do better than people who take bilingual education.
You know that, Mexicans in America, 50 percent of them don't graduate from high school. That's a failure of bilingual education.
(CROSSTALK)
SANCHEZ: Well, let's just be clear. I mean, let's not beat around the bush here. He was talking about Spanish, wasn't he? Or was he talking about German? Did we get this wrong?
TYLER: I think there's a -- I think there is something to be said about the shorthand.
But I still think what the speaker is saying is, in order not to limit people's opportunity -- you're a perfect example of that, someone who has unlimited opportunity. You speak both Spanish and English.
SANCHEZ: Right.
TYLER: And, by the way, Newt Gingrich is studying Spanish. I'm studying Spanish as well. And so is his president of Gingrich Communications. We have Spanish speakers on staff.
(CROSSTALK)
SANCHEZ: I get that. And I think most people who are watching this show get it.
But here's a reaction you're getting from a lot of people, like Christine Neumann-Ortiz. She's with Voice of La Frontera.
Let's listen to what she had to say.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CHRISTINE NEUMANN-ORTIZ, FOUNDER, VOCES DE LA FRONTERA: Bottom line, this is about voter disenfranchisement. It's about exploiting working people. It's about dividing them.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SANCHEZ: You understand why people might be offended when they seem to be hearing those words together, especially the use of the word ghetto or people living in ghetto?
TYLER: What people should be offended about, Rick, is people who do poorly who come -- who do not speak English as a first language and go to bilingual education, and have a failure rate of 50 percent of non-graduation.
If you ask any Hispanic mother, they say, please, God, teach my children English, because I will teach them Spanish at home. And they will do very well if they learn English.
But we're somehow -- and the comments you had by Ortiz, that's typical commentary from the left. They would rather apologize for failure and protect the status quo than to actually have the guts to tell the truth and change.
(CROSSTALK)
TYLER: We do not want to trap...
(CROSSTALK)
SANCHEZ: Given what you are saying, Rick -- pardon me for apologizing, but, given what you're telling us, it sounds like what you're saying is that there's no need to apologize here to anyone.
(CROSSTALK)
TYLER: Well, I think there's some regret over the shorthand. I don't think what -- the speaker meant to offend anybody, certainly not the Spanish-speaking world.
(CROSSTALK)
SANCHEZ: What do you mean by -- what do you mean by shorthand? I'm not quite sure I understand that.
TYLER: Well, I think he was trying to draw a point that says -- and you see this in Australia today. They have changed their Department of Multiculturalism, because it was a failure, to the Department of Assimilation.
And what the prime minister of Australia had said is, we do not want to trap people in ghettos of limited opportunity. We want to give them the opportunity to succeed in Australia. We should do the same in America...
(CROSSTALK)
TYLER: ... allow people to succeed in America.
SANCHEZ: Let me ask you, Rick, this question very directly.
TYLER: Yes, sir.
SANCHEZ: If Felipe Calderon, the president of Mexico, right, if you were listening to him tomorrow, and he announced that the English language was the language of the ghetto, or suggested that, would you be angry about that? Would you want an apology from -- as a person who speaks English?
(CROSSTALK)
TYLER: The speaker did not say Spanish is the language of the ghetto.
But Spanish is the language of success in Mexico, as it is in many other Latino countries, as it is in Spain. English is the success language of the United States. Everybody knows that. Every Hispanic mother and father who want their children to succeed in America knows that.
And, so, why are we beating around the bush? Why don't we just say that's true? Let's try something different. Let's have a better success rate.
SANCHEZ: Final question.
TYLER: Yes, sir.
SANCHEZ: When he says something like this, and you have to go out and speak on his behalf, do you get more money?
TYLER: No.
(LAUGHTER)
SANCHEZ: I'm kidding.
(CROSSTALK)
TYLER: I'm down here -- I'm down here in Mississippi. I'm making no money. I had no plans to be on TV today.
(LAUGHTER)
SANCHEZ: Rick Tyler, we thank you for taking the heat. You're a good man.
TYLER: Thanks, Rick. SANCHEZ: We appreciate it.
TYLER: I appreciate it.
SANCHEZ: In addition to Newt Gingrich's choice of words, let's talk now about the bigger issue here, which is also bilingual education.
Two people that I want you to meet right now, former teacher and radio talk show host Dom Giordano. He thinks that bilingual education holds kids back.
Good smile.
Journalism professor and syndicated columnist Miguel Perez, former colleague of mine, by the way. He's a product of bilingual education, thinks people like Newt Gingrich are afraid of the Latino community.
Now, that's an interesting choice of words.
Thanks, guys, for being with us.
DOM GIORDANO, RADIO TALK SHOW HOST: Thank you, Rick.
SANCHEZ: First of all, let's go back to the comment, before we get into the bilingual talk.
Miguel, fair question to you. Are you offended?
MIGUEL PEREZ, SYNDICATED COLUMNIST: Absolutely. Absolutely offended.
And I think -- I'm just wondering what Republicans think they get out of hateful -- spewing this kind of hateful, divisive language.
(CROSSTALK)
SANCHEZ: But is that fair to paint all Republicans? I mean, this is Newt. It's not all Republicans.
(CROSSTALK)
PEREZ: Well, but there's a lot of them who do speak that way. There's a lot -- it's the same kind of people that are against -- conducting this drive against illegal immigrants.
SANCHEZ: Do you want him to apologize?
(CROSSTALK)
PEREZ: I absolutely want him to apologize.
He won't, because Mr. Gingrich basically thinks that he can go up in this world or move up in his presidential aspirations by appealing to the haters, to the divisive people in this country, instead of -- I mean...
(CROSSTALK)
SANCHEZ: You mean he's finding his camp? He's giving his camp red meat? Is that what you're saying?
(CROSSTALK)
PEREZ: He's feeding the wolves. And...
SANCHEZ: Let's go to Mr. Giordano.
Just a comment.
GIORDANO: Sure. Yes, exactly.
SANCHEZ: Before we get into bilingual education, just a comment in and of itself. Do you think it was offensive?
GIORDANO: Well, it is.
What happened here is, though, I think he was meaning to be provocative. But, when you get into an area like this, you have got to be in lockdown mode. You don't do what Rick Tyler called the shorthand. If you do the shorthand, you stumble over it, and then you say something that guys like you, me, and Miguel fight over and parse out for a few hours.
SANCHEZ: Right.
GIORDANO: Just spit it out word by word what you wanted to say.
(CROSSTALK)
SANCHEZ: You think he should have -- well, he was on a good roll there, it seemed.
GIORDANO: He was on a good roll.
(CROSSTALK)
SANCHEZ: I talked to a fellow colleague of his in the House, who is also a very well-known Republican.
GIORDANO: Right.
SANCHEZ: He won't -- I'm not going to use his name, but he told me, this is typical Newt Gingrich. He's a smart guy, always makes a good point, but then maybe he steps over the line and goes a little too far.
GIORDANO: And when he backed away from his script and all -- this is something you have got to stay looking at your script, if you're going to get into this, because this is a mine field. This is pretty heated. SANCHEZ: OK, speaking of heated, we're going to into the whole bilingual debate now by starting it off with this. This is also something that Newt Gingrich said during his commentary. Let's take a listen together, guys.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GINGRICH: It would be very powerful for us over the next 18 months to draw a line in the sand and say, everybody who believes that English should be the official language of the government, you're over here.
Everybody who believes the left-wing concept of a multilingual America, in which nobody has a clue what's going on, you're over here.
The elites in this city will go crazy. They will say, you're not allowed to talk about that. Well, we just did.
(LAUGHTER)
(APPLAUSE)
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SANCHEZ: Good speaker, smart guy.
But, back to what your argument is, he's throwing the red meat at them. There you go.
PEREZ: Look, this is the only country in the world where a politician can come out and promote ignorance, learn only one language, and get away with it.
In Europe, people laugh at us, because they speak several languages. You know what the joke in Europe is about the monolingual people? What is another term for a monolingual person?
GIORDANO: An American.
PEREZ: An American.
(CROSSTALK)
PEREZ: Yes. And that is...
(CROSSTALK)
GIORDANO: But, Rick, I think that is not what he's saying.
And, Miguel, I realize his sensitivity. And I wish I could speak Italian. I wish I didn't speak one language.
SANCHEZ: Right.
GIORDANO: We're not talking about that. We're talking about these kids that I have seen when I taught in Camden and other places...
SANCHEZ: You want to talk about bilingual education...
GIORDANO: ... that are held back.
SANCHEZ: Make your pitch. Convince us as to why it's important.
GIORDANO: Yes. My pitch is, when you take a look at this, it was well-intentioned when it started. All the pedagogical literature, study after study after study, says it's almost worse than doing nothing, what's done with these kids. And you know what the watch word in education is today? Inclusion. Handicapped are in classrooms, no matter how big their handicap is.
(CROSSTALK)
SANCHEZ: You know, Miguel, he makes a great point about this. If you start a bilingualism program, then it has to kind of feed on itself.
I mean, the idea that somebody comes into this country, like yourself or myself, gets a teacher, they help you for six months or a year, and then you're on your own. But, in some school systems, once they start the bilingual program, they're there for 10 years. Some kids may not need it, but they're still getting the teacher. Five years later, they're still being taught in Spanish.
PEREZ: Look, Rick, there are good bilingual education programs and there are terrible bilingual education programs. What these people have done, like Newt Gingrich, is point to the bad ones and make it look like they're all bad.
(CROSSTALK)
GIORDANO: I disagree with Miguel.
(CROSSTALK)
PEREZ: I am a product of bilingual education. And I wouldn't be sitting here if it wasn't for bilingual education.
(CROSSTALK)
GIORDANO: I just think, Rick, part of this...
(CROSSTALK)
SANCHEZ: Down to about 30 seconds, fellows.
GIORDANO: We think kids can't take hard knocks. It's all about self-esteem. It's part of that movement. And they can. With love, they can move forward. This holds them back. That's my pitch.
SANCHEZ: Great stuff.
You guys are going to be with us throughout the course of the evening, right? So, don't leave.
Dom Giordano and Miguel Perez, thanks so much for being with us.
(CROSSTALK)
GIORDANO: Thank you very much.
SANCHEZ: We appreciate it.
Presidential candidate John McCain says that you aren't getting the full story of what's going wrong in Iraq. And who's the blame? You guessed it. The media. Always the media's fault, right? We're going to break it down for you. Maybe there's some truth to it.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEN. JOHN MCCAIN (R), ARIZONA: What we don't read about every day and what is new since the surge began is a lot of the good news.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SANCHEZ: Next, I'm going to ask a pair of our reporters, what good news? They're there. And why aren't Senator McCain and the news media seeing the same thing in Iraq? How can that be? Same place, different perspective.
And take a look at this woman. You see those bruises? She was beaten up. And she wants to make sure that it doesn't happen again. That's why she doesn't want people to know where she is. And, by the way, did we tell you this? She's packing heat. You see, that has a lot to do with this story. Tough to watch, isn't it? Look at that.
Also, why a blogger is getting death threats just for expressing nothing more than her opinions.
Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
SANCHEZ: And we welcome you back. I'm Rick Sanchez, filling in for Paula Zahn on this day.
Should a Walt Disney classic that's been under lock and key for years finally be out in the open? Well, in just a little bit, we're going to debate whether the stereotypes about, for example, Uncle Remus in "Song of the South," are just too offensive for anyone to see? Or maybe not.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
SANCHEZ: Out in the open right now: a claim that the American people aren't getting the full picture of what U.S. troops are accomplishing in Iraq. Is the news media hiding something? Or is it just presidential politics?
Senator John McCain, who, of course, is running for the presidency, paid a surprise visit to the Baghdad market over the weekend. He wore body armor, but no helmet. Now, even though the market has been the target of repeated bomb attacks, the unannounced and heavily guarded shopping trip went fine, according to reports.
Now, later, McCain accused the news media of not reporting on the improvements in Baghdad under the current troop surge. That prompted some skepticism and even some pushback among the reporters who were there when he made the declarations.
CNN's Kyra Phillips and Michael Ware are in Baghdad. They have been watching this. In fact, they saw the whole thing.
Michael, let's begin with you. So, while Senator McCain is far from calling this a mission accomplished -- to be fair, he didn't say that -- what is going on in Iraq, he did say that he sees some progress. He talked about being able to drive from the airport and go out in the city for the first time.
Most of us stateside listen to this and say, hey, that's great news. That would mean that things are finally turning around.
Question to you: Is it true?
MICHAEL WARE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, no, quite simply put, it's not.
I mean, for Senator McCain, this might be the first time that he's managed to be able to drive from the airport, under heavy guard, and it's the first time that he may have been able to venture out into the city streets.
But I can tell you, for the years that I have been here throughout this war, many American generals have walked those streets, enveloped by heavy security.
SANCHEZ: Is it even possible to go there in just a couple of days and assess the situation, the way that McCain and others have tried to do?
KYRA PHILLIPS, CNN ANCHOR: No way. That's absolutely impossible.
And, just to give you an example, I mean, I spent the day with David Petraeus, just like Senator John McCain spent a day with Petraeus. And Petraeus and I went into the Dora district. I mean, this is a place that is haunted by a death squad. Al Qaeda cells still operate in that area. And he had inter-, outer-perimeter security. He had helicopters. He had guards everywhere.
And then McCain goes to a -- quote, unquote -- "safer district" -- I mean, I can't even say that anything is really safe around here. He had the same amount of security.
Bottom line, you're with the head of U.S. forces in Iraq, you're going to have an entourage.
SANCHEZ: Makes sense.
Now, yesterday, at the news conference, McCain did face some tough questions. We talked about that a little while ago. It was kind of like a back-and-forth between members of the media, something we see all the time like at the White House, for example.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
QUESTION: In comments that you made on CNN, you said that General Petraeus wandered around here in an unarmored Humvee, and I would like to bring it back to...
MCCAIN: General Petraeus -- General Petraeus...
(CROSSTALK)
MCCAIN: General Petraeus goes to -- goes downtown almost every day. And, of course, he has protection. And we had protection today.
Things are getting better in Iraq. And I am pleased at the progress that has been made. And I will continue to be pleased with the progress.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SANCHEZ: While we're watching that news conference, Michael, let me ask you flat out, because you know that there's a report out there that says that, during this news conference, you heckled Senator McCain. What's your response to that?
WARE: No, absolutely not. I did not heckle the senator.
Indeed, I never even made a comment throughout the entire press conference. Indeed, when I finally did raise my hand, the press conference ended abruptly.
And, essentially, the senator disagrees with our assessment of this state of the war.
SANCHEZ: We have got some numbers. You know, a lot of people smarter than us have said that numbers don't lie. So, we are going to share some brand-new numbers with you that we have just received, numbers that seem to say that, since this surge, it looks like this as far as civilian deaths. These are Iraqi civilian deaths that we're talking about.
They have risen, from 1,552 in February, 2007, to 1,939 in March. Now, that's a 25 percent increase. All this is going on during the surge.
Now, it seems to me that that's a problem.
Guys, go ahead.
WARE: Well, this was always anticipated. The surge was never meant to be the answer to all problems. Even the commanders of all of the U.S. forces, the leader of this war, General Petraeus, said, let's be cautious about our expectations here.
What's happened is what's happened every time there's been an offensive in the capital.
SANCHEZ: Michael Ware, Kyra Phillips, thanks so much for the lively exchange. I really enjoyed it. Good job out there.
PHILLIPS: You bet.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
SANCHEZ: We're going to meet a woman who carries a concealed gun. What would scare her this much?
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TERESA SAYERS, DOMESTIC VIOLENCE SURVIVOR: All I was saying was, oh, my gosh, oh, my gosh, oh, my gosh. This can't be true.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SANCHEZ: You see, the key here is that she doesn't want people to know where she is. And how her identity and thousands of others have now ended in the open. It's going to be the subject of our next story and debate.
And, then, later: a story that you need to see before you ever post a comment or an opinion on the Internet. What's happening to one woman could happen to any one of us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
SANCHEZ: And I welcome you back. I'm Rick Sanchez, filling in for Paula Zahn.
Out in the open now once again: a huge controversy that's raging in Virginia. This one is over concealed weapons and public records. How would you like it if your name was made public to everybody in your community just because you happen to have a permit to carry a concealed weapon?
Well, that's what happened to 135,000 people when "The Roanoke Times" published a list with all their names on it. Some of them say that revealing their identity has now put their lives in danger.
So, we sent Kyung Lah to look into this one for us.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
TERESA SAYERS, DOMESTIC VIOLENCE SURVIVOR: All I was saying was, oh, my gosh, oh, my gosh, oh, my gosh. This can't be true.
KYUNG LAH, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): After years of being careful to make sure that she couldn't be found, moving around and carefully guarding her whereabouts wherever she went, Teresa Sayers' personal information, including her home address, was suddenly just one mouse click away.
SAYERS: I was just so shaken, when I did so much to try to protect where I was, that it was out there.
LAH: Sayers has reason to be afraid. Her ex-husband is serving a 36-year sentence for nearly killing her.
SAYERS: Knocked me to the floor and stabbed me multiple times.
LAH (on camera): How many times did he stab you?
SAYERS: About eight.
(CROSSTALK)
SAYERS: If he would get out today, he would find me. He would kill me.
LAH (voice-over): Sayers was one of 135,000 registered concealed carry permit holders in the state of Virginia whose names and home addresses were published on the Internet by the "Roanoke Times" newspaper as part of a series on open government records. The paper never anticipated the fear and the outrage from the gun community that followed.
(on camera): How many e-mails did you say you had?
PHILIP VAN CLEAVE, VIRGINIA CITIZENS DEFENSE LEAGUE: Well, we got about 700 of them.
LAH (voice-over): Philip Van Cleave is a gun-rights activist in Virginia. He showed us complaints, witnesses who help put criminals away, crime victims, and undercover officers, all outed by the Roanoke paper.
VAN CLEAVE: We don't want that to happen. We don't want anybody to get killed because of this. And we feel that "The Roanoke Times" is playing with a very dangerous weapon by displaying that, using the First Amendment to ruin people's lives.
LAH (on camera): Don't I, under the Virginia state law, have a right to know if you -- whether or not you're carrying a weapon?
VAN CLEAVE: No.
LAH: Why not?
VAN CLEAVE: Why should you?
HASSAN THOMAS, PAROLE OFFICER: Uh-oh. I woke him up. Have a beautiful day, handsome man.
LAH (voice-over): Hassan Thomas was also on the list. He, too, has a reason for a permit to carry a concealed weapon. He has it because he's a parole officer. He checks up on violent offenders. And now, since his name and home address were published, those offenders are checking on him, too.
BETSY THOMAS, WIFE OF PAROLE OFFICER: The doorbell rang. And it was someone I didn't know.
LAH (on camera): So, it was a parolee?
B. THOMAS: It was a former parolee. They said they knew him, because he had -- they had -- he used to be their parole officer.
LAH: And why did he come?
B. THOMAS: Just curious.
H. THOMAS: How did he get that information? How did he know? I'm thinking, did he follow me home? Did he find out where I lived at from a friend or something?
LAH (voice-over): "The Roanoke Times" says the right to know is vitally important. "The Times" would not speak to CNN on camera, but, in an editorial, the paper acknowledged that the right to know must be measured against the potential risk to crime victims and law enforcement.
The paper says that it has been bombarded by thousands of fuming e-mails and calls and many threats of violence. The day after "The Roanoke Times" published the list, they pulled it down off the Internet. But the paper says it still believes that public records should remain public. And they're not alone.
LUCY DALGLISH, REPORTERS COMMITTEE FOR FREEDOM OF THE PRESS: Who is licensed and who is given a privilege in this country by a government body is information that the public should be able to have.
EDD HOUCK (D), VIRGINIA STATE SENATOR: It's one of those classic examples of personal privacy vs. the public's right to know.
LAH: Now Virginia lawmakers are wrestling with whether this information needs to be locked away or should be made public.
HOUCK: Generally, I feel That governmental records should be open to the public, because that is what protects our freedoms.
LAH: Teresa Sayers always keeps her handgun within reach on her kitchen counter.
(on camera): Make you feel better, having it in your hands?
SAYERS: It does.
LAH (voice-over): Hassan Thomas says he now leaves the house with a little more caution and a lot more concern.
These gun owners say what they lost was a sense of safety. Whether those fears will be realized is now just a waiting game.
H. THOMAS: Have a blessed day.
LAH: Kyung Lah, CNN, Roanoke, Virginia.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
SANCHEZ: So, there's pretty much the information, very clear.
So, let's do this now. Let's turn it over to the "Out in the Open" panel that we have put together for you.
CNN contributor Roland Martin is joining us, also Niger Innis. He's a political consultant and national spokesperson for the Congress of Racial Equality, and, once again, Miguel Perez, syndicated columnist and professor in journalism at Lehman College in New York.
My thanks to all of you gentlemen for being with us.
Roland, we're going to begin with you.
They're called concealed weapons, right? That would mean that the people don't want them or anyone else to know that they have them. So, why would we want to put this information out there?
ROLAND MARTIN, CNN CONTRIBUTOR: Well, first of all, we're assigning the blame to the wrong people. This is a newspaper. They have the right to publish. It's the First Amendment.
The people who they should be criticizing are the dumb lawmakers who did not conceal the concealed handgun records. There are a number of states where they hide the information away. They should have known...
(CROSSTALK)
SANCHEZ: So, you're saying there shouldn't a public record to begin with?
MARTIN: Well, I'm not saying that.
What I'm saying is, if they want to make this a law, they should have hidden the record. But I certainly believe, though, that we have a right to know in terms of who has concealed handgun weapons. It may be a matter of, we don't see 135,000 people having the handguns.
(CROSSTALK)
SANCHEZ: But you're wanting to have it both ways. Either you have one or the other. Take a look at this woman's picture once again.
Hey, Will (ph), put that picture up once again of her. Thanks.
Look at this woman.
MARTIN: Yes.
SANCHEZ: I mean, this is a woman -- you can see the fear in her face. You can understand why a woman like this would probably not want anyone to know where she is.
MARTIN: Yes.
And that's why you conceal the records or you say, what is a rationale for doing so?
SANCHEZ: So, newspaperman Miguel Perez, what would you do if your publication chose to do something like this?
PEREZ: I would laugh. I would think that it's not necessary. I don't think the newspaper really gains anything from doing this.
I don't think they're going to win a Pulitzer for exposing these people.
(LAUGHTER)
PEREZ: You know, it's ridiculous.
I mean, these people have a right to some privacy. And, you know, we as -- the public has the right to know about a sex offender, because that's a threat to society. Somebody who has a gun because she's been a victim of violence, needs the gun to protect herself, I don't get it?
(CROSSTALK)
MARTIN: But that's not every person. First of all, let's not assume that 135,000 people Virginia all have been beaten by their husbands. That's not every single person.
NIGER INNIS, NATIONAL SPOKESMAN, THE CONGRESS OF RACIAL EQUALITY: But, if it's one, it's one too many.
And the fact is, what the real agenda is, Miguel, actually, you hit it right on the dot, because the writer, the original writer of the story, compared these law-abiding citizens, some former crime victims, two sex offenders, they said, if the government can actually post and, actually, you can have an interactive Web site that can find sexual offenders, then why shouldn't it be the same way with guns?
(CROSSTALK)
INNIS: And that's the real -- the real agenda are those that want to undermine our Second Amendment constitutional rights to keep and bear arms.
SANCHEZ: The real problem here is...
MATTHEWS: Right. But what about the First Amendment? Before you get to the Second, there's a First.
(CROSSTALK)
INNIS: That's true. But the Second Amendment isn't the 33rd. It's the second.
(CROSSTALK)
INNIS: And, somehow, our media pays much more attention to the God -- the almost deity worship of the First Amendment, but we totally have contempt throughout the media of the Second Amendment.
(CROSSTALK)
SANCHEZ: Put your hands up if you think that the newspaper was wrong to do this here, by the way. Yes?
INNIS: Can I put up two?
SANCHEZ: You have got two.
You're not saying...
(LAUGHTER)
SANCHEZ: You're not saying -- Roland, you're not saying they were wrong?
MARTIN: I have run three newspapers, OK? So, I have made the call in terms of what you decide.
Again, we are...
(CROSSTALK)
SANCHEZ: What is to be gained by publishing this story?
MARTIN: Here is what we are doing, though. We are sitting here saying, the paper is at fault for publishing it.
Who were the people who passed the law? Who were the people who could have said, the moment they passed it, hey, let's hide this. Like other states have done. But the onus on the folks that made the law.
INNIS: I buy that. There are two people that are wrong here. The newspaper is wrong and the lawmakers. In fact they're going to make that decision because of the stupidity of ...
MARTIN: And, in fact, Rick, the fact of the matter is because the paper did it, they could make it private. Because we're in the day of Internet, folks who know how to use it, they could have pulled the same information. And so the paper, in fact, is forcing the state to do what they should have done.
So what if someone else had done it? What if a blogger had done it? What if the same parolee had gotten the exact same information and gone to the guy's house? INNIS: I suppose "The Roanoke Times" is next going to have a list of those who rent adult videos and DVDs, right?
SANCHEZ: We'll have to leave it there. Maybe that will be our next segment. Hopefully we won't have to do it. Thanks, guys. We appreciate it but our producers saying we're out of time for this one. Because we've got so much more that we've got to discuss still.
In fact, we're about to meet a woman who put her own identity as well as her own opinions, you were talking about this just a little while ago, Roland, about the bloggers and the Internet. Well, she put it out there in the open. And now she's wishing that she hadn't done that.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I feel horrible. I feel frightened. I'm ready to just quit the whole industry.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SANCHEZ: Next, blogging's dark, dirty secrets. When some people disagree with you, they may want to kill you.
And then later, a Disney movie that you probably have never seen. It's "Song of the South." Maybe you have. Racially offensive, you should never get a chance to. That's what some argue. Others say maybe not. We'll be back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
SANCHEZ: In this half hour, would you buy what may be Walt Disney's most racially offensive movie? We're bringing this controversy "Out in the Open" for you.
And then at the top of the hour, you've got to see this one, Star Jones-Reynolds and Beyonce together. They were here today walking around, doing this. It's the LARRY KING SHOW, live and it's a little different tonight. It's a good one.
Up first, though, let's talk about this. It's the dark side of cyberspace. Death threats and warnings of rape on the Internet. It's what we were just talking about a little while ago.
When you think of the Internet, you think it's all anonymous people out there, right? Nothing could happen. It's just words out in space. Well, some people are talking about cyber-bullying and they say it's getting way out of control. One target, a blogger, says she's afraid to leave her yard because of this, and she's not alone. We wanted to know more about this, so we asked Alina Cho to find out what's going on here.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
ALINA CHO, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Kathy Sierra is a popular blogger. She talks about technology. Not exactly a controversial topic, or so she thought.
KATHY SIERRA, BLOGGER: I feel horrible, I feel frightened. I'm ready to just quit the whole industry.
CHO: A month ago, Sierra started getting anonymous threats on her blog, she says because she was too cheery.
SIERRA: I got comments on my own blog posts that included death threats and death threats with sexual implications, too. And that had never happened before. They'd never gone to that degree of violence and sex. They'd always just been mean, not frightening.
CHO: Then these images started popping up on other sights, including a photo of her with a noose.
SIERRA: In the comments someone said, "The only thing Kathy has to offer me is that noose in her neck size."
CHO: Sierra called police, canceled all public appearances and locked herself in her house. But the online assault didn't stop.
SIERRA: They also mixed in, you know, accurate facts including my Social Security number plus a bunch of horrific stuff about my life that was untrue.
CHO: Like what?
SIERRA: Oh, that I filed for a divorce on charges of domestic violence and then I was left penniless and homeless. And just that kind of thing. Oh, that I don't write my own books.
CHO: How common are death threats on the Internet? Sierra says she's received more than 1,000 e-mails from supporters who say they have had similar experiences.
SIERRA: I started to hear from men saying that it's not just women. That men have been victims of this as well. And even to the point of not just violence or, you know, death threats, but with sexual implications. So there are some really harrowing stories that people have told me.
CHO: The anonymity of the Web makes it easy for anyone to say anything. At any time. Even so, some experts say death threats on the Web are the exception, not the rule.
DAVID WEINBERGER, HARVARD UNIVERSITY BERKMAN CENTER: The sort of violence and threats that we see occasionally, we do see just occasionally. But if that were pervasive, nobody would be on the Internet.
CHO: The misogynistic images of Sierra were posted on Web sites founded by another popular blogger, Chris Locke. That sparked a bitter war between the man known as RageBoy and the woman some have called the "cute kitty." The two met for the first time a few days ago.
Locke says he doesn't know who posted the images on his group blogs, but has since shut down the site.
CHRIS LOCKE, BLOGGER: How do you enforce this? There aren't enough lawyers in the world, there aren't enough police in the world to -- to watch these conversations.
CHO: Most states do have cyberstalking laws, but many classify Internet death threats in the same way they do verbal ones, as misdemeanors.
SIERRA: If I don't know for sure and I can't feel safe, am I willing to take, you know, am I willing to bet with my life that it's just a random Internet jerk? No.
CHO: Sierra has stopped blogging for now. Alina Cho, CNN, Boulder, Colorado.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
SANCHEZ: And we're going to continue to look into that. The biggest problem in stopping cyberstalking, though, Internet threats, is finding out who the real culprit is.
Now, this is no secret. My kids, for example, they own a shelf full of Walt Disney movies, right? Yours probably do, too.
Actually, they're normally all over the floor. But there's one that they don't have. And it's some people getting their way, they'll never have it. Neither will yours.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: That film is racially demeaning, insulting, and offensive.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SANCHEZ: "Out in the Open" next, should people be allowed to see or even buy "Song of the South." Different ways of looking at this one.
And then later, one of the people you should know and his dire warning about what's happening to your money.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
SANCHEZ: Welcome back. I'm Rick Sanchez filling in for Paula Zahn.
"Out in the Open," possible plans to bring a controversial Disney classic out of the studio vaults of Disney. I'm talking about the film "Song of the South." Disney is now considers reissuing this movie on video and on DVD. Now, critics say the problem is that this movie is blatantly racist, blatantly offensive to African Americans, yet a growing number of people believe that it's about time that the movie is in fact, re-released. Interesting argument. Here's entertainment correspondent Brooke Anderson with this one. (BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
BROOKE ANDERSON, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Disney's 1946 movie "Song of the South" has been locked in the company's vaults for decades. Never released for home viewing in the United States even though it won an Oscar for its song, "Zipideedoodah" and inspired the Splash Mountain rides at Disney's theme parks.
For years, the film has been blasted as racist for the way it depicts southern blacks. The primary character, Uncle Remus, is seen as a servile, happy go lucky simpleton bubbling over with "ain't nobody"s, "ain't never"s and "you tells them"s. A stereotype that for many dangerously glamorizes the harsh reality of post-slavery America.
NAJEE ALI, PROJECT ISLAMIC HOPE: That film is racially demeaning, it is insulting and it's offensive. It's a painful reminder of our past where blacks were depicted as buffoons.
JAMES BASKETT, ACTOR: I knows that.
ANDERSON: Civil rights advocate Najee Ali is glad the film has been locked up all these years. And wants it to stay that way.
ALI: The Disney corporation is going to find out very soon that if they do release this film that African-Americans will be outside protesting, that bringing back up that painful reminder is a slap in the face to our ancestors.
ANDERSON: Despite the potential backlash, Disney chief Bob Iger is considering releasing the film saying quote, "There were depictions in the film that viewed in today's world might not be viewed as kindly or as politically correct as perhaps they may have been n that time. But we have decided that we would look at it again."
Niger Innis from the Congress of Racial Equality is well aware of the film's rocky history with blacks.
INNIS: James Baskett was the first live black actor hired by Disney to do this. Could not go to the premier of this film in Atlanta because he could not get a hotel room that would sleep him for the night because of segregation.
ANDERSON (on camera): However, unlike Ali, Innis believes Disney has been wrong to block the movie. He does want the studio to release the film as long as it's accompanied by special features to educate fans.
INNIS: For example, you could very easily have a documentary, the making of the film, Song of the South." Use entertainment to really educate and show a little bit of American history.
ANDERSON (voice-over): Should Disney decide to put the film on DVD, the title stands to become very profitable.
CHRISTIAN WILLIS, WWW.SONGOFTHESOUTH.NET: This is my first item. ANDERSON: Christian Willis has spent a decade collecting anything and everything related to "Song of the South." He says the film's fan base is massive.
WILLIS: I would say that there are hundreds of thousands of people out there that are hopeful.
ANDERSON: More than 118,000 people have signed a position now located on Willis' Web site urging Disney to make the move.
WILLIS: They all want to see this movie released. They don't see anything wrong with it.
ANDERSON: For now, fans and foes will have to wait and see if Disney's "Song of the South" buzzes onto store shelves or once again if the studio decides that would be a Zippitydoo-don't. Brooke Anderson, CNN, Hollywood.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
SANCHEZ: Like I even have to tell you, right, that this is going to be a perfect topic for our "Out in the Open" panel. Joining us again, Roland Martin, Niger Innis, who you just saw in Brooke's piece, by the way. You look very handsome, I should add.
PEREZ: That was a good looking guy there. What happened?
SANCHEZ: Miguel ...
INNIS: Cheap shot.
SANCHEZ: Miguel Perez. Equally handsome.
PEREZ: Thank you.
SANCHEZ: Should people see this again? Should people see this again?
MARTIN: I think first and foremost there are a number of movies that are out that were done during that period of time. If you applied that standard, don't show "Gone with the Wind." If you applied that standard, don't show an Al Jolson, don't show folks in blackface.
There's a lots of movies.
SANCHEZ: Don't show Moses. There were slaves in that one, too. Don't show "Roots."
MARTIN: Don't show Bill Bojangles.
"Roots" is a little different, again.
And the movie - in fact, the 30th anniversary of that movie is this Sunday and is being show on another network. The point is there are a number of movies that are being broadcast. That we see. So that -- it's a different kind of deal here.
SANCHEZ: So historically if it's put in perspective, it's OK? Is that fair?
MARTIN: But there are a number of movies that are not put in perspective. They are just shown on television. You can buy them in video stores. This is a different standard because Disney chose to lock it away in its vault.
INNIS: And let me tell you something. Roland is right. Not only a number of movies, but "Song of the South" is one of those movies that has been released as recently in this country in 1986 and it's been released in Europe in and Asia.
SANCHEZ: What do you feel like as African Americans when you watch this and when you watch people creating ridiculous caricatures of African Americans? At a time when it was done all the time?
MARTIN: First of all, I am more offended by the caricatures and the ignorance that I see in some movies today than I am in this particular movie.
SANCHEZ: Really?
MARTIN: Absolutely. Because, first of all, this is 2007. I mean, I understand that -- you know, in terms of what that setting was, at the same time, what also offends me is when they act like it didn't happen. So I'm not jumping up and down in terms of, oh Disney, don't release this film again. I'm more offended by what I hear and see today than this particular film.
SANCHEZ: There is a particular guy that wants this released. He's apparently got an ax to grind in this thing. This is what he says, I'm going to read it to you.
Will, if you could, put it up on the screen for us.
He says, "I must stress that Disney used only innocent stereotypes, that is, stereotypes that do not make fun of characteristics of people or things."
That's Christian Willis, by the way.
MARTIN: What does that mean?
SANCHEZ: It's interesting. He runs the fan site for "Song of the South."
Do you think that's harmless? Is there a difference?
PEREZ: I guess some people want us to think that they were happy slaves. Those two things just don't go together. I mean, it's a myth to try to make people believe. SANCHEZ: A stereotype is a stereotype is a stereotype.
PEREZ: A stereotype is a stereotype.
SANCHEZ: The only difference is the person who's being stereotyped tends to take it a little differently than the person who's not. It's all about perception.
INNIS: That's for sure. You don't want to create an artificial, superficial image of what life was like. And the interesting thing about this movie, "Song of the South," it was based on a number of articles written by Joel Chandler who was a white boy, a real person, a white boy that grew up around former slaves and got these stories. Black folklore stories from these former slaves and here you have this rich piece of history. It was actually printed in the "Atlanta Journal-Constitution" in the 1870s or 1880s.
Here you have -- Disney has this opportunity to grasp the bull by the horns and Roland is dead right. There are so many movies that are the reflection of that period and the mindset of whites against blacks. Here's an opportunity to do something educational.
MARTIN: Bill Bojangles and Shirley Temple. Come on, take your pick.
PEREZ: To answer your question, it should be released so that it can stimulate this kind of debate, so that we can educate people. I mean, this is going to fight ignorance.
INNIS: A whole generation of Americans that need to know what life was life after the Civil War. And even in 1946 when this was released.
SANCHEZ: And if this even fosters intelligent discussion in this realm, then it is a good thing.
MARTIN: Absolutely. As Niger said, if we understand the back story. We couldn't go to the film, Hattie McDaniel, when she couldn't do certain things, she won on Oscar. Again, when you understand that, if puts it in context versus just the film.
SANCHEZ: You guys have been great. Can you come back?
MARTIN: We'll try.
SANCHEZ: Roland Martin, Niger Innis, of course and Miguel Perez. Thanks to all three of you gentlemen.
We all get lots of advice about handling or money, but one man's advice is so shocking, so urgent, we think he's one of the people that you should know. Meet him in just a minute.
And then stick around for LARRY KING LIVE. Star Jones Reynolds and Beyonce. Got to see her today. She was walking around the studio today.
INNIS: Oh, my.
SANCHEZ: She was here.
MARTIN: Bring me along!
SANCHEZ: That's coming up. Stay with us. We'll be back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
SANCHEZ: Let's do this now for you. Let's take a "Biz Break." On Wall Street, stocks managed to edge up a little bit after struggling most of the day. The Dow gained almost 30 points. NASDAQ picked up less than one point. And the S&P picked up 3 points. Mortgage meltdown continued today. Subprime mortgage lender New Century Financial, once the industry leader, by the way, filed for bankruptcy. The company immediately -- good time for my voice to go -- fired 3,200 workers.
The manufacturing index also fell in the month of March, a warning that economic growth could slow. Now, the Institute of Supply Management also reported a rise in prices warning that inflation could also grow.
The Tribune Company which owns the "Chicago Tribune" newspaper has accepted a $8.2 billion buy-out offer from real estate investor Sam Zell. Tribune also owns the "L.A. Times" and the Chicago Cubs baseball team. It says it plans to sell the Cubs. Talk about making history.
Well, in our "People You Should Know," the to government money man who says it's time that we started paying a lot more attention to what Washington is doing with our money. He is on a mission to try and cure America's addiction to debt because he says that the nation is on a road to financial disaster. Here's Brian Todd with tonight's "People You Should Know."
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
DAVID WALKER,COMPTROLLER GENERAL: I am very, very busy.
BRIAN TODD, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): You've probably never heard his name, but as the nation's comptroller general, David Walker tracks how the federal government spends our money and he's got an urgent message for America.
WALKER: What's going on now is immoral. We're under water to the tune of $50 trillion and that number is going up three to four trillion a year on auto pilot. So we need to start getting serious soon in order to make sure that our future is better than our past.
TODD: Walker says it's not just a warning for Washington, but for all Americans, he says, mimic Uncle Sam's bad money habits.
WALKER: They're spending more money than they make. They're charging it to their credit card and they're going to have to pay it off with compound interest in the future. TODD: That's why Walker is taking his message cross country in what he calls a fiscal wakeup tour.
WALKER: I decided that the people need to hear the facts. I need -- they needed to know the truth. So that their elected officials would be able to start making some tough choices without losing their jobs.
TODD: Walker says those tough choices include reinstating controls on federal spending, reforming Medicare and Social Security, and overhauling what he calls an unsustainable health care system that threatens to bankrupt America.
WALKER: It's going to take us probably 20 years to do all the things that need to be done to put us on a prudent and sustainable long-term path, but we need to get started now because the clock is ticking and time is working against us.
TODD: Brian Todd, CNN, Washington.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
SANCHEZ: Well, you think you had a blue Monday. Stick around. It won't seem so bad after you see some dramatic pictures of what the people in one neighborhood had to go through today. That's amazing. Look at that. See that fall right there? We'll have it for you. We'll be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
SANCHEZ: Something else we've got to leave you with tonight. If you thought your Monday was a bummer, talk to the folks in Hilliard, Ohio. An escaped prison inmate literally crashed into their neighborhood while trying to outrun the police officers. As these amazing pictures show, he ran over to a house and then smashed the door.
A woman inside literally rolled - here it is, watch this, ready? She rolls off, there goes, boom, rolls off the rooftop. The guy took another woman hostage. This is crazy, he eventually let her go.
And then finally, thank goodness, he gave up.
"Out in the Open" tomorrow. Is Senator Barack Obama's church racist? A question a lot of people are asking. We leave you right now and we go on to LARRY KING LIVE with Beyonce.
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