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Paula Zahn Now
Bloomberg For President?; Iraq War Displaces Millions
Aired June 20, 2007 - 20:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
PAULA ZAHN, CNN ANCHOR: Good evening, everybody. Glad to have you with us tonight.
The worldwide refugee crisis, unbelievable stories, lives uprooted, turned upside down, the unintended consequences of the war in Iraq.
If New York Mayor Michael Bloomberg runs for president as an independent, which candidate and which political party would be hurt the most?
Plus, the newest form of cyber-terrorism, could it show up in your computer? What do you do if you get an e-mail from a hit man?
As we mentioned, this is World Refugee Day. And we're devoting much of this hour to a crisis that is swirling all around us. It is a crisis that a whole lot worse than you probably think.
Worldwide, almost 10 million people are refugees. And, for the first time in five years, that number is going up, not down.
Look at this. Since the war in Iraq started in 2003, some four million Iraqi civilians have been forced from their homes. Two million of them have fled the country completely, including a million just last year. The numbers are staggering. We're talking about children, as well as adults.
Where are they going? Is anyone taking care of them? As part of CNN's special coverage of World Refugee Day, we are devoting all of our resources to finding some answers tonight.
And we get started in Iraq itself, where the chaos is creating new refugees every day.
Let's turn to Michael Ware, who is in Baghdad.
We talked about those stunning numbers, four million Iraqis displaced. Where have they all gone?
MICHAEL WARE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Paula, as you say, almost two million of them are still here in Iraq.
They have been forced into fetid refugee camps that have popped up within the capital and beyond, or they have gone to relatives' already overcrowded homes, anywhere, just to get away from the death squads. However, another almost two million have crossed Iraq's borders, mostly into neighboring Jordan and Syria. Now, Jordan has all but closed its borders to many of these Iraqis now. Syria, for the time being, is keeping the floodgates open.
But there's many rumors that, soon, they too, will shut their gates. Once these people leave their homes, be it in Iraq, or be it in Syria or Jordan, or some of the other Arab countries, there is very little to offer. Men are going without work. Children are going without school. And, by and large, most people are going without health care -- Paula.
ZAHN: So, you have told us a little about what some of the Arab countries are doing to help. What is the United States doing for these people?
WARE: Paula, quite frankly, not a great deal at all.
Indeed, after the Vietnam War, President Ford spoke about America's profound obligation to help particularly those Vietnamese who helped America.
Well, now there's nothing but a profound shame. Since the war began, only as many 701 Iraqis, according to the State Department, have made it to U.S. shores. The vast majority of that 700 are applicants from the time of Saddam's regime. Only a handful are actually victims of this war.
Now, the State Department has admitted: That's not enough. That's not good enough. We have been slow to respond, and we have not met our moral commitment.
Now a new system is in place, trying to balance America's security concerns post-911 with what the State Department acknowledges is its very real moral commitment. We're now going to see, according to the latest figures, as many as 15,000 come to America this year alone.
And people like translators, Iraqis who have worked for the U.S. government, they can never come home. They have a death sentence. So, by the end of the day, America can expect to have tens of thousands of Iraqis come to U.S. shores -- Paula.
ZAHN: And that poses a whole new set of questions for us here.
Michael Ware, thanks so much -- the pictures, of course, telling a very powerful story there.
As I mentioned a short while ago, some two million Iraqi civilians have already fled their country. And this flood of humanity directly affects the countries on Iraq's borders, countries like the small state of Jordan.
Chief international correspondent Christiane Amanpour is in its capital city of Amman tonight.
And, Christiane, if you would, give us a sense of the conditions under which some of these refugees are living in.
CHRISTIANE AMANPOUR, CNN CHIEF INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, it's not the typical refugee camps that you might see in other countries.
They have come to Jordan. And they're being housed, in some terms, in people's -- in their relatives' homes. Some of them are rich enough to be able to buy property and buy land. You know, 40 percent of Iraq's professional class has fled, and many of them have come here.
To an extent, quite a lot of officials have also fled. And in -- over the years since 2003, even some of the government and business was being operated from here in Jordan.
But there are, of course, the poor people as well. And they are really just having to deal with handouts, Western charities, Jordanian charities, trying to do what they can to keep them alive.
The U.N. says the stress on this country and on neighboring Syria is profound, the stress on its economy, the stress on the school systems, the health care systems. People aren't being able to find jobs as quickly and as efficiently as they need.
And, really, when you talk to some of the people who have fled here, notably females, translators who used to work with the American military, others who used to work as American contractors, some of what they have been through, because of who they worked for there, is really appalling.
And they are really just desperate to not -- to get not just to here, but be resettled in so-called third countries. Many of them want to go to the United States. They put their lives on the line for the United States.
But, as we have been reporting, the U.S. has taken very, very few in, just one in May, one in April. And they say that they are going to try and do better, but they are in a real state of backlog -- Paula.
ZAHN: Christiane, you mentioned some of the Jordanian charities and what they're doing to pitch in. What specifically is the Jordanian government doing to help these people?
AMANPOUR: Well, it's -- as I say, it's trying to provide all sorts of health care and other education, but also in conjunction with the UNHCR, the refugee agency.
What they are trying to do is shore up the infrastructure here. And, to that end, they are calling on many, many other countries to help these frontline countries, Jordan and Syria, those who just happen, by geography, to be neighbors, and, therefore, facing the real brunt of the refugee exodus.
They say that all the other countries, under their obligations from the refugee charter, must pitch in to help. Jordan itself says it's paying -- or it plans or thinks it will pay about $1 billion a year to look after 750,000 refugees who have come in here. That's three-quarters-of-a-million people, adding to a population of already six million, Jordan one of the poorest countries in this region.
And one of its most severe and stressed resources is water. And, with these summer months blisteringly hot, water is in short supply. And they're concerned about that.
ZAHN: A lot of challenges ahead.
Christiane Amanpour, thank you.
The United Nations estimates, more than a million Iraqi women have fled their homes since the war began. And many, as you have heard, head for Syria, which, like Jordan, is on Iraq's border. And, there, some Iraqi women and girls fall into a horrifying, disgusting form of exploitation. They are being forced to become sex slaves.
The guests I spoke with a little bit earlier on know that all too well. Zainab Salbi grew up in Iraq and is the co-founder and CEO of an aid organization called Women For Women International. The group has helped thousands of women in special war-torn countries. We were joined by "TIME" magazine correspondent Brian Bennett, too, who has covered the sexual exploitation of refugees.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
ZAHN: And welcome to both of you.
Zainab, I wanted to start off tonight by reading an excerpt from the State Department which should give us all a chilling reminder of what women face in Iraq today.
It says: "Women and children in the Iraqi refugee community in Syria are reportedly forced into commercial sexual exploitation. Syria may also be a transit country for Iraqi women and girls trafficked to Kuwait, the UAE, and Lebanon for forced prostitution.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ZAHN: You still have family, friends and colleagues in Iraq. What are they telling about how desperate some of these women are?
ZAINAB SALBI, CO-FOUNDER AND CEO, WOMEN FOR WOMEN INTERNATIONAL: Inside of Iraq, we're having a case in which professional women have been assassinated and continue to be targeted for assassination.
ZAHN: Specifically targeted?
SALBI: Particularly pharmacists, reporters, doctors, professors -- you name it -- economists.
(CROSSTALK)
ZAHN: Why?
SALBI: In my belief, it's a political message. If -- women, go home. We don't want to see you.
It is not different than the Taliban message of targeting women as well.
ZAHN: And, Brian, you have done some extensive reporting on the terror these women face. Share with us, in your judgment, one of the worst stories you have heard about what a woman has been subjected to.
BRIAN BENNETT, CORRESPONDENT, "TIME": Gosh. Where do I start?
I went into an orphanage in Baghdad in Adhamiya. It's the Children's House No. 2. And that's where I met a 14-year-old girl who had been lured out of that orphanage by a nurse who worked there -- and she had come to trust this woman -- was lured out of the orphanage, and into a criminal gang that was determined to sell her to the highest bidder in Dubai.
Fortunately, that girl, her name -- the name she gave me was Amna (ph) -- was able to escape and -- and get back to the orphanage, before she was sold.
ZAHN: But many of them don't escape, do they, Brian?
BENNETT: That's just the problem, is, I mean, there are -- no one really knows the -- how big the problem is.
ZAHN: Brian talking about a young girl, had she not been lucky, that might have shared that same fate.
What kind of women are aware of that end up in this trade?
SALBI: These are women who are average women. They are necessarily illiterate women or very, very poor women. These are really educated women from Baghdad, a lot of them.
They probably, most likely, are having -- some of them are orphans, but some of them also are from lower-middle-class families or middle-class families who are college-educated, high-school-educated. The -- that is -- the crisis in -- this is a national crisis for me, for many reasons -- but the crisis of them being trafficked outside the country, where the families are trying to get them outside, A, to save them, and, B, because they need the money to come into their families.
ZAHN: Brian, even if these women eventually escape the sex trade, there is no guarantee they are going to have a better life, is there?
BENNETT: No, there's not. There are very few places for them to go. In many cases, their families or tribes will want to kill them, in the name of an honor killing, because they have been away from their families.
And, also, right now in Iraq, there are some women who are serving jail time because a judge decided they were safer in prison than out there on the streets, where they could be killed by criminal gangs or -- or by their own families.
ZAHN: What a sad reflection of what these women have to endure.
Zainab, Brian, thank you...
SALBI: Thank you.
ZAHN: ... both for shedding some light on this.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
ZAHN: While many Iraqi refugees stay in the Middle East, thousands end up in some very unlikely places, including, believe it or not, Sweden.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Hello.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Hi.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Hi.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Can I help you out with anything?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes, of course. I'm looking for a thick coat for winter.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes?
(CROSSTALK)
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ZAHN: What's it like going from the Iraqi desert to a place where the summers are far from hot and the winters are long and bone- chilling? You have got to see our next report.
Also, the legal nightmare for a refugee in Las Vegas -- why she could be forced out of the country, with no place to go.
Later: A declaration of political independence, could it start New York Mayor Michael Bloomberg on the road to the White House? We will debate that, what some of these signals might mean.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
ZAHN: When people become refugees, so do the strange germs and parasites they may unknowingly carry -- coming up, the struggle to find out what's wrong with a little boy before it's too late.
We continue our special coverage now of World Refugee Day.
Two million Iraqis, as we mentioned, have fled their country because of the war. Most of them are now in neighboring countries like Jordan and Syria. But some have to go much farther to find a safe place to live.
Thousands have traveled the 2,000 miles from Iraq to Sweden, where they are learning to live in a whole different world, as we hear now from Frederik Pleitgen.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
FREDERIK PLEITGEN, CNN BERLIN BUREAU CHIEF (voice-over): Temperatures in the low 70s, this is about as hot as the summer gets in Sweden. That means T-shirts and tank tops for the mostly blond Northern Europeans.
But this man is keeping his jacket on and his collar buttoned up. He came here three months ago from Baghdad, a refugee. He won't let us reveal his real name, out of fear. We call him Lui. And Lui is already preparing for that long, cold Nordic winter.
LUI, IRAQI REFUGEE: Hello.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Hi.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Hi.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Can I help you out with anything?
LUI: Yes, of course. I'm looking for a thick coat for winter.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We have got a couple different models here.
LUI: Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Here, we have got a down jacket, really warm.
LUI: It's very, very warm. Make you feel comfortable and maybe fat?
(LAUGHTER)
PLEITGEN: But not all Iraqis living in Sweden take the Scandinavian frost with such humor. The Iraqi ambassador here says he gets a lot of complaints from his countrymen.
AHMAD BAMARNI, IRAQI AMBASSADOR TO SWEDEN: You have almost five months of darkness. The day starts at 9:30, 10:00 in the morning, and it ends at 3:00 in the afternoon.
PLEITGEN: Still, tens of thousands of Iraqis seek refuge in Sweden, people like Ali Rasul Jaber (ph). He fled Baghdad nine months ago with his wife and two small children.
The snow and long dark nights of winter, he can tolerate. Learning Swedish is more of a challenge. And that makes it difficult to find work. An engineer by training, Ali (ph) now helps out in his brother's electronics store, putting together satellite dishes and selling TVs.
His nephew Haidar also works here. Haidar grew up in Sweden, but visited Iraq a few weeks ago. One of the first things he witnessed was this, an ambush near Basra, victims unknown. Haidar recorded the scene on his cell phone, his hand trembling. He says he will never return to Iraq.
PLEITGEN (on camera): So, do you think you could ever move to Iraq and live in Iraq and be in...
HAIDAR NATER RASOOL, IRAQI REFUGEE: Never.
PLEITGEN: Why not?
HAIDAR NATER RASOOL, IRAQI REFUGEE: No, never. I not go.
PLEITGEN: Why not?
RASOOL: Because I like Sweden. I come here about 10 years ago. I like to live here.
PLEITGEN (voice-over): About 100,000 Iraqis live in Sweden. Many came while Saddam Hussein was in power. Now, with the security situation in Iraq deteriorating, a new wave of refugees is seeking asylum in this Scandinavian country.
Almost 9,000 Iraqis made the journey to Sweden last year. By comparison, the U.S. took in fewer than 300 Iraqi asylum-seekers.
The refugees get free housing, health care, and a work permit as soon as they receive asylum. Even so, the Swedish migration minister says more must be done.
TOBIAS BILLSTROM, SWEDISH MIGRATION MINISTER: I don't think that any country in the world is doing its share right now, because, with the present situation, the greatest exodus since 1948, we all have a responsibility for what is happening.
PLEITGEN: This is not the kind of water Lui would dip into, but he says, even with the cold and the cultural differences, he believes Sweden could become a new home for him, at least until Iraq is safe enough for him to return.
Frederik Pleitgen, CNN, Stockholm, Sweden.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
ZAHN: I think something that Frederik just mentioned is worth repeating. Last year, the U.S. took in fewer than 300 Iraqi refugees. That's 300. And 50,000 Iraqis are displaced from their homes every month.
Should the U.S. be doing a whole lot more for them?
Well, let's bring that out in the open tonight with our panel, Air America radio host Rachel Maddow, Ryan Smith, an attorney and co- host of BET's "My Two Cents."
Your first time on. Welcome. Right?
RYAN SMITH, CO-HOST, "MY TWO CENTS": Yes. Thank you for having me.
ZAHN: And Ben Ferguson, he's an old hat. He's here all the time...
(LAUGHTER)
ZAHN: ... a nationally syndicated radio talk show host.
Welcome back.
BEN FERGUSON, RADIO TALK SHOW HOST: Thanks.
ZAHN: Rachel, I want you to take a look at these staggering numbers. And it's a comparison of how many more refugees Sweden is taking in, the Netherlands, and Germany than what the United States is.
RACHEL MADDOW, RADIO TALK SHOW HOST: Yes.
ZAHN: And you are talking about some countries who weren't part of this fighting.
MADDOW: That's right. It's not -- the fact that...
(CROSSTALK)
ZAHN: Are you ashamed by this?
MADDOW: Absolutely.
I mean, for Sweden to have taken that kind of responsibility for the mess that we created with the invasion and the subsequent occupation of Iraq, they weren't part of this military fiasco -- we were the ones who started it. And for us to not be taking in the people who are the human calamity that is responsible -- that -- that's -- that's the result of that is a national shame, I think.
ZAHN: Is that the U.S.' responsibility?
SMITH: I don't know if it's so much that we have to take in every refugee that is out there. Let's think about this, because the -- what we say a lot of times is, well, we caused this, so now we have to house every refugee. That would be very difficult for us to do. And I don't think it's as simple as us just taking in everyone who is trouble.
(CROSSTALK)
MADDOW: Between 1975 and 1980, we took in a half-million Vietnamese and Cambodian refugees in this country. That was the right thing to do. Why is not the right thing to do now? FERGUSON: You have -- but you have to look at geography. And you have to look at where these places are and how close they are to Iraq.
It's unfair to say that we're not doing our fair share. And we're over there, A, protecting these people. B, the American soldiers are giving their lives to these people every day. And the reality is, is to say that America somehow doesn't have open arms for people, we have got 15 million people that we have opened our arms from, from Mexico.
If Iraq was right next door, they would be coming to America. You have to look at the demographics of this.
MADDOW: Are you saying that...
(CROSSTALK)
FERGUSON: You have to look at the world. And you have to look at -- these places are closer for these people to go and live.
MADDOW: Because Sweden borders Iraq? This is a very unusual interpretation of...
(CROSSTALK)
FERGUSON: No. I'm not saying it borders. My point is, it's a lot closer than America is to go there and to work.
(CROSSTALK)
SMITH: Yes, that's -- no.
(CROSSTALK)
SMITH: No, no, no.
(CROSSTALK)
(LAUGHTER)
ZAHN: Let me throw out another geography challenge for you now. And these are a whole bunch of statistics taking a look at what happened over a six-month period, where the government, the U.S. government, gave more than 20,000 people refugee status.
Well, you're talking about countries like Somalia, Iranians, Burmese, Cubans -- Iraqis, 70.
Do you think that's justified?
FERGUSON: I think people go where they want to go.
And, if you look at Sweden, if you look at what the report said, people were going there before Saddam was taken out of power. People go where their friends and families go, the same reason that people from Mexico keep coming to America.
(CROSSTALK)
SMITH: I have got to dis...
FERGUSON: And the same reason why Iraqis are going to Sweden is because they already have roots there. They have friends there. They have people that...
MADDOW: Wow.
FERGUSON: ... can get them into business there.
(CROSSTALK)
FERGUSON: That's why they have so many people going there.
(CROSSTALK)
SMITH: It is not -- I have to disagree with that.
FERGUSON: Look at what the report said.
SMITH: The idea that people don't want to come to America...
FERGUSON: Are you serious?
SMITH: These refugees want to be here.
You don't think they do? You don't think they want to be here?
FERGUSON: No, I'm sure they want to -- I'm sure some of them want to come to America, but they also want to come where their friends are. And, if most of their friends are in Sweden or in Syria or in Iran, they're going to go there.
(CROSSTALK)
SMITH: Wait. Wait. Let me understand this. So, you are saying the number is 70 because they don't have enough friends and family here to justify them coming here. That's why the number is 70, as opposed to thousands?
FERGUSON: Look, I'm not saying it shouldn't be 7,000 or 70,000.
But my point is, they're going to go places where they know people.
MADDOW: Wow.
FERGUSON: And I don't think that America is not doing its fair share. We're over there right now. Men and women are giving their lives for Iraqis.
(CROSSTALK)
SMITH: Oh, Iraqis don't know anybody in America.
ZAHN: What about -- what about that, Rachel?
(CROSSTALK)
ZAHN: Because, by this stage of this process, people were hoping that this Iraqi government would gain more strength and would have a much better ability to control its population.
MADDOW: Yes.
What's happened instead is that the Iraqi government is not stable. The Iraqi government is not a sole source of legitimate use of force in their country. People are not only internally displaced, but they are internationally displaced. They -- they would love to be able to come to the United States.
The United States government is saying no. It's not that the Iraqis don't want to come here, and they would be welcome if they did. The U.S. government is saying no. Other governments are saying yes. And that's unconscionable for us, as a nation, as the country who started this problem.
FERGUSON: I think you have to look at...
ZAHN: Quickly, Ben.
FERGUSON: ... the reason why -- the reason why America is saying no right now is because, in -- in your words, is because we're over there trying to help build them their houses and their schools, and allowing women to go to school, allowing women to hold office, allowing women to be educated, for that matter, in their country.
Instead of just, you know, Band-Aiding the problem, having them come to America, and saying, oh, we will take you in for a little while, we're actually trying to set their own country for them.
(CROSSTALK)
MADDOW: Band-Aiding the problem by saving their lives, yes. Wow.
ZAHN: All right. Hang on. We have got a lot more to debate tonight. Hold your fire.
Still to come, another refugee with an amazing story to tell is an Iraqi woman who was on the run for 14 years. She finally found a home right here in the U.S.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It's the country of freedom. Since I was a kid, I -- I listen to this, how is the human rights here.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ZAHN: She's happy, and she's safe. So, why is the U.S. determined to send her away? She says that could kill her.
Later, he isn't a Democrat or a Republican.
What is he, guys?
Independent, he says.
But which party would he hurt the most if he runs for president? Our panel will weigh in on that when we come back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
ZAHN: The numbers are absolutely outrageous. As we said tonight, two million Iraqis are refugees because of the war that started four years ago. But Iraqis were fleeing their country long before that to escape Saddam Hussein's brutality.
Some came here to the U.S., like the woman you're about to meet. But the safety she thought she found in her adopted country is about to vanish.
Thelma Gutierrez continues our special coverage of World Refugee Day.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
THELMA GUTIERREZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): In Las Vegas, the city of dreams, Dallal Muhamed is a refugee without a future. On the run for 14 years, she's about to be deported to Iraq.
DALLAL MUHAMED, IRAQI REFUGEE: I would rather die than -- than go out.
GUTIERREZ: Dallal says her nightmare began in Baghdad during Saddam's reign, when this married mother of two was working as a civil engineer for the government. She says, because of her family's prominence, the Baath Party tried to recruit her. Dallal steadfastly refused. Then, one day, she says, two men high up in the party paid her a visit.
MUHAMED: It's just like a kidnapping, in front of my house. Of course, I start screaming, but they were quick. They hit me, and they pushed me inside the car.
GUTIERREZ: Dallal says she was taken to a house, where she was raped. Six hours later, she was returned to her home.
MUHAMED: I felt destroyed, destroyed as a Middle East woman or an Iraqi woman. I -- I -- I felt that, I'm done. My life is all destroyed.
GUTIERREZ: Michael Newton, an expert on war crimes from Vanderbilt University, says stories like this were common in Saddam's Iraq.
MICHAEL NEWTON, ACTING ASSOCIATE CLINICAL PROFESSOR OF LAW, VANDERBILT UNIVERSITY: There were members of the intelligence bureaucracy who actually carried business cards labeled security rapists. They used sexual violence as a form of political persecution.
GUTIERREZ: Fearing that Saddam's men would come calling again, Dallal says she fled Iraq with her two children. They went to Germany, where she was granted political asylum.
MUHAMED: It was difficult at the beginning learning the language.
GUTIERREZ: But four years later Dallal says she feared she had been discovered, so she and her kids were on the run again, this time to the United States where they applied for refugee status.
(on camera): Do you feel something for this country?
MUHAMED: This is a country of freedom. Since I was a kid I listen to this, how there was the human rights here.
GUTIERREZ (voice-over): Fourteen years after fleeing her country, Dallal is finally settled. She works two jobs, a realtor by day and a blackjack dealer by night so her children can have the same educational opportunities as Americans.
But Dallal's dreams are about to die. That's because her request for asylum was recently denied by the 9th Circuit Court of Appears which ruled Dallal could not prove, "...she would be tortured if returned to Iraq." And said she will not be able to stay in the United States because already had been granted refugee status in Germany.
Dallal said she can't go back to Germany because according to international law, she lost her status when she left eight years ago. So Dallal and her children face eminent deportation back to Iraq to a war zone where her nightmare began.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I think she'll die. It's as simple as that. I think she won't last long and neither will her children.
GUTIERREZ: You don't think that's overly dramatic?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No, not at all. I've seen it time and time again.
GUTIERREZ: CNN asked U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement to respond to these concerns, but they would only tell us that Dallal had her day in court and must comply with her order of deportation.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: There is policy that says you don't send somebody back to an unstable country, but Iraq is supposedly stable.
GUTIERREZ: In fact, there is no current policy protect Dallal or any other Iraqi from being deported back to their war-torn country. In the past three years, 38 were sent back home, 13 of those, criminals. But Dallal says she's not a criminal, just a mother living in limbo, wondering when immigration agents will show up at her doorstep to take her and her children away.
Thelma Gutierrez, CNN, Las Vegas.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
ZAHN: And according U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement officials, the State Department and the new government of Iraq are trying to come up with a repatriation program for Iraqis who are about to be deported back to Iraq. For now the government says those who've received deportation orders should leave the U.S. on their own.
We are moving on to some of today's other top stories. Is New York Mayor Michael Bloomberg getting ready to run for the White House? Let's hear what he had to say about that, today. And which presidential candidate and which political party would he hurt the most if he does run.
Also, a warning that affects your personal security and safety. What should you do if a new form of cyberterrorism shows up on your computer? This one is really scary.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
ZAHN: Coming up in this half hour, cyberterrorism hits home, what should you do if an alleged hitman e-mails you demanding money? This is happening all over the country.
Also, we'll continue our coverage of the world refugee crisis, ahead. The secret medical problems some refugees are carrying.
Americans are looking more and more fed up with the major political parties. Check out this new Gallup Poll: 71 percent disapprove of how Congress is doing its job -- 71 percent, a 15 percent increase since the Democrats took control of Congress in January.
That wasn't supposed to happen, Rachel.
It's clear Americans are not happy with the Democrats nor are they happy with the Republicans, so how about an Independent presidential candidate, someone like New York City Mayor Michael Bloomberg. He has said no, he is not running, but he only added to the speculation this week by announcing he is quitting the Republican Party and going Independent. Here's what he had to say about that, today.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MAYOR MICHAEL BLOOMBERG (I), NEW YORK: My intention is to be mayor for the next 925 days and probably about 10 hours, whatever's left -- 11 hours, and that is my intention.
The more people that run for office the better...
(END VIDEO CLIP) ZAHN: It sounds like he's trying to have it both ways. Let me get this straight, let's see what our "out in the open" panel has to say about non-candidate Bloomberg. Joining me again, Rachel Maddow, Ryan Smith, Ben Ferguson.
Of course, every politician tells you they have the intention of finishing out their term. Is this guy going to be a spoiler?
SMITH: He's not going to be a spoiler. This is -- this is a bit of a ploy, and I think he knows that without Republican support, with out Democratic support, what is he really going to do? He doesn't -- he's not really popular outside of New York, no one really knows him, he doesn't have that Rudy Giuliani personality or 9/11 behind him. He's just an Independent guy out there with a lot of money and a lot of (INAUDIBLE)
MADDOW: And a very popular mayor.
ZAHN: Yeah (INAUDIBLE).
MADDOW: People like what he's done there.
SMITH: But that's a popular mayor of New York, not enough to win a national election.
Buy, you know, there are more people in America who describe themselves as not affiliated with any political party, then there are people who identify themselves as Republicans.
SMITH: But does mean...
MADDOW: So, I mean, will all those people be willing to support somebody who's a none of the above candidate, as well?
FERGUSON: Look, you can take the frontrunner from the Republican Party and make him switch two days before the election to an Independent, and he would still lose. You could take the Democrat who's a frontrunner in the Democratic Party and he could switch to Independent and he would guarantee -- there's guarantee of loss there because America's not ready for any third party. People say they're not satisfied with the Republicans or the Democrats, but they know you can't get elected. And I'll tell you, I think...
ZAHN: All right, as we have learned, in the past, those Independent candidates can certainly make a mess of the race, can't they?
FERGUSON: Yeah, and I think that's what...
ZAHN: Or maybe that's the wrong word. Some people were very happy to see Ross Perot jump in.
FERGUSON: Well, I mean, you look at what Ross Perot and what he did, he spoiled it for George Bush 41, and you look at even Nader and how he spoiled it, in many ways, for Al Gore. You've got to look at this guy and say, he's got the money. He could be an eight tier candidate, but he's got the money to make an impact and it may only take one or two percent to lose it for another guy.
MADDOW: I think the lesson of Ross Perot is often misread. Ross Perot...
ZAHN: Oh, I thought you were going to say 1-800 numbers.
(LAUGHTER)
ZAHN: I probably still know that number.
MADDOW: The most important impact of Ross Perot is that we still talk about the giant sucking sound, honestly, but I mean, but the reason -- Ross Perot took votes from both candidates. And I don't think that it's clear to be said that he spoiled that election for George HW Bush.
The important thing about Ross Perot is that he got 19 percent of the popular vote and zero of electoral votes, because the Electoral College system and the political system, more generally, is stacked against Independent candidates.
SMITH: So, he'll have an effect. He'll have an effect, buy you know what? Americans in this country -- we need a sense of security in our parties. We generally know what Republicans think, we generally know what Democrats think. And we need that sense of security. Without that we don't know what's going to happen when that person goes into office.
ZAHN: Ben, I want you to react to something Mayor Bloomberg had to say yesterday about how fed up so many Americans are with the state of -- what would you call it -- paralysis in Washington. Let's listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BLOOMBERG: More than ever, Washington is sinking into a swamp of dysfunction. No matter who's in charge, sadly, today, partisanship is king. It has become a contest in Washington to one-up the other side and to score points for the next election.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ZAHN: So, I don't understand, Ben, why you so swiftly write off the possibility that an Independent candidate could never make it.
FERGUSON: I just don't think it's going to happen in my lifetime. There's too much money, there's too...
ZAHN: But you're so young, Ben.
FERGUSON: No, I mean, I'm a young guy, but...
ZAHN: You got another 70 years. It could happen.
FERGUSON: I don't think it's going to happen. The reason is because the parties have the money, they have the business backing, they have the lobbying groups, they have -- I mean, they have voter blocks that vote for those parties because they have congressmen and senators that they need -- and governors and locally-elected officials to get things done on their agenda. And you look at this guy and you got to wonder two things, here, either one, he's trying to scare people into hey, maybe he'll get a cabinet position out of it. Or two, he's got a ton of money, he's bored, has a huge ego and he just wants to be famous coast-to-coast. Reminds me a lot of Ross Perot. Look at their bank accounts.
SMITH: We just need to know -- as Americans, we just want to know -- we're at home, we don't know how people are going to vote when they're in office and that's the one thing we like about a Republican or a Democrat, we know that he can't get too far afoot, we can't get too far...
(CROSSTALK)
...that's -- but I think a lot of American feel that way. They can't get too far afoot because they belong to a certain party. What if they just decide to go willy-nilly, do whatever they want if they're an Independent?
MADDOW: I think one thing that Americans look at Michael Bloomberg and the one thing they really like about him is that he is totally transparent about the fact that party labels mean nothing to him. He was a Democrat for 40 years before he became a Republican, and he was transparent about the fact that he did that just to got in the spot on the ticket and he wanted to get on to run for mayor of New York.
(CROSSTALK)
It's refreshing. People like that about him.
FERGUSON: That's what's going to kill him. That's what's going to kill him coast-to-coast, the fact that he was a Democrat, became a Republican because he had such a big ego he wanted to have that position because he could do anything else...
(CROSSTALK)
MADDOW: ...who are the mayors of New York have big egos. People expect their presidential candidates to have big egos.
FERGUSON: Yeah, but they don't expect them to flip-flop on parties. They don't expect them to flip-flop on parties and that's what people want...
(CROSSTALK)
SMITH: As Americans, we do want that sense of loyalty. We do want to know that our president can stick to something. I think that's true.
ZAHN: All right.
MADDOW: No way, man.
ZAHN: Oh, Rachel's (INAUDIBLE) no, no, no!
Rachel Maddow, Ryan Smith, Ben Ferguson, thanks.
Now, get a load of this e-mail, it is absolutely chilling.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
PETER MCGLOTHIN, E-MAIL EXTORTION VICTIM: ...I'm being paid to kill you unless you pay me $30,000. We know who you are, we know how to find you, we know what you look like and we're following you.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ZAHN: Is it a hoax? Could it be real? Coming up, what you need to know, now.
We're also going to focus again on the plight of refugees and the medical mysteries they may be carrying with them as they leave their homelands.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
ZAHN: This next story is something I think we all need to pay attention to. There is a new e-mail scam hitting computers all over the country and this one is supposed to make you think that someone is out to kill you. People are falling for it, losing tens of thousands of dollars in the process. Dan Lothian brings this chilling Internet extortion scheme "out in the open" for us, tonight.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
DAN LOTHIAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: We all get them, span e-mails offering everything from a free computer to an incredible mortgage rate. Most of the time they're more annoying than threatening, but not always.
MCGLOTHIN: This man says I'm being paid to kill you unless you pay me $30,000. We know who you are, we know how to find you, we know what you look like and we're following you.
LOTHIAN (voice-over): It was a menacing message that Peter McGlothin says he never expected to find in his e-main inbox.
(on camera): A deadly threat that begins with an apology. "I'm very, very sorry for you. It's a pity that this how your life is going to end. But I will like to give you some chance to help yourself." The e-mailer, describing himself as a hitman, also says, "My work, as I am talking to you know, is just to kill you and I have to do it as I have already been paid for that.
(voice-over): McGlothlin then reads that a friend has put out a contract on him, but then the mystery man takes another tack, offering to be call off the hit if he pays up. In the meantime, he's warned in this grammatically challenged e- mail, that, "As I'm writing to you now, my men are monitoring you...and they're telling me every thing about you...so I will like to know if you will like to live or die."
(on camera): You totally blow it off and say, OK, you know, I'm OK, this is not real, I don't need to worry.
MCGLOTHIN: No. No, suppose in Virginia all of the students have received this e-mail saying someone's going to kill you in the next few days. Would you just delete it?
LOTHIAN (voice-over): A Boston-area legal secretary, McGlothin admits he looked over his shoulder for a few days as he thought about the e-mail's warning to always be home by 7:00 p.m.
MCGLOTHIN: There was one night I was about 7:00, by 7:15 the doorbell rang and I almost fell on the floor.
LOTHIAN: Spooked, but a false alarm.
(on camera): It said, do not contact the police. Did you follow the orders?
MCGLOTHIN: No.
LOTHIAN: Ignoring what was written in the e-mail, McGlothin decided to report the threat, going straight to the FBI.
(voice-over): Where he found out he's not alone. More than 100 complaints have come in from across the country, a cyber shakedown for anywhere from $30,000 to $80,000 threatening death if victims don't pay up. The FBI started alerting the public about the hitman scam earlier this year.
(on camera): Is the FBI aware at all of anyone actually falling for this thinking that their life was in danger and sending the money?
JAMES BURRELL, SPECIAL AGENT, FBI: Absolutely.
LOTHIAN (voice-over): The FBI says tracking suspects is difficult because this is a borderless crime believed to be originating overseas.
BURRELL: They can basically commit these offenses from anywhere in the world.
LOTHIAN: Ultimately, McGlothin never fell for the scheme, because, as the FBI points out, the e-mail was generic, nothing specific to him, not even his address and that, according to federal agents, is an important tip-off.
BURRELL: When you look at that e-mail: is just an e-mail about me, does this have anything that personally identifies me?
LOTHIAN: Even without sending a dime, McGlothin says he and others like him are victims of a dangerous dot con.
MCGLOTHIN: Maybe this is the next generation of terror where people come into your homes via e-mail.
LOTHIAN (on camera): And terrorize you?
MCGLOTHIN: And terrorize you.
LOTHIAN (voice-over): Just by opening an e-mail. Dan Lothian, CNN, Boston.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
ZAHN: Scary stuff.
I want to circle back now to our top story, the worldwide refugee crisis. You see, you're just getting away from a war zone, sometimes that isn't enough.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ELIZABETH COHEN, CNN MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: Is Monykuch growing the way a 5-year-old boy should be?
DR. CARLOS FRANCO, EMORY SCHOOL OF MEDICINE: No, Monykuch is currently malnourished from his previous experience in the refugee camps.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ZAHN: Coming up next, the race to find out what's really wrong with this little boy and try to save his life. We'll be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
ZAHN: We are turning our attention back to World Refugee Day, now. Only a fraction of the million of the world's refugees make it to a new home in a new country, but even those lucky enough to survive, there are still challenges. One burden they carry, sometimes, is medical -- the lingering effects of lack of food and chronic disease. For tonight's "Vital Signs," medical correspondent Elizabeth Cohen as the story of one young refugee who escaped Sudan, but faced another tough battle for survive right here in the U.S.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
COHEN (voice-over): A year ago Monykuch was living in a refugee camp, a victim of the civil war in southern Sudan. But this little boy is one of the lucky ones. He and his family got their wish, they were granted refugee status and now they live outside Atlanta.
In many ways Monykuch (ph) is becoming like a typical American boy. But in one way he's very different. Monykuch doesn't like to eat.
(on camera): So, how is his Monykuch's stomach doing? RACHEL BOL, MONYKUCH'S MOTHER: Once he eat, he says I have a stomach ache -- my stomach is not OK.
COHEN: When he eats, he says his stomach hurts?
(voice-over): Monykuch is five years old, but he's the size of a 3-year-old. When he arrived in this country, Monykuch went to a health clinic, but he didn't get treatment until he met this man.
DR. CARLOS FRANCO, FOUND PARASITE: Does this hurt? Monykuch?
MONYKUCH: Yes.
FRANCO: Does your belly hurt?
MONYKUCH: Yes.
ZAHN: Dr. Carols Franco realized Monykuch had an intestinal parasite.
COHEN (on camera): Is Monykuch growing the way a 5-year-old boy should be?
FRANCO: No, Monykuch is currently malnourished from his previous experience in the refugee camps.
COHEN (voice-over): Dr. Franco specializes in refugees. He's treated hundreds in the U.S. and has even traveled to Sudan. And he says as more and more refugees come to the U.S., others doctors need to learn about refugee diseases, such as parasites, malaria and hepatitis B.
Dr. Franco keeps a reminder of this in his office, a picture of this man, Gabriel Bol.
FRANCO: He was a leader in the community, he was a friend and a patient for all of us.
COHEN: Gabriel had hepatitis B, which caused liver cancer. He died at age 25. Dr. Franco says he would have lived had the disease been caught earlier.
MONYKUCH (singing): A, B, C, D, E, F, G...
COHEN: As for Monykuch, hopes are high now that he's getting the medicine he needs.
(on camera): What would you like to eat?
MONYKUCH: Chicken.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Chicken.
COHEN (voice-over): The next challenge, finding a pediatrician who can care for Monykuch's special health needs as he embarks on his new life in America. Elizabeth Cohen, CNN, Decatur, Georgia.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
ZAHN: We'll I'm rooting for him.
Tonight we told you the stories of just a few of the world's 10 million refugees. It sounds like an overwhelming problem, but you can help. Go to cnn.com/impact to find out exactly what you can do to be part of the solution.
At the top of the hour, LARRY KING LIVE, the latest from the search for a pregnant woman who had been missing now for almost a week.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
ZAHN: We mentioned at the top of the hour, today, it's CNN's World Refugee Day, a special day of coverage and it continues tonight at 10:00 and when Anderson Cooper sits down with actress and activist, Angelina Jolie.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ANGELINA JOLIE, ACTRESS: The more I've got to know refugees and refugee families and even those people who had lost their limbs, they had a strength and a spirit that I have never seen anywhere else than when I meet a refugees and they have something extraordinary.
ANDERSON COOPER, AC360: They've been victimized, but they're not necessarily victims?
JOLIE: They're in the rib times at all. They don't live as victims. They have -- they certainly know that there has been an injustice, and they are very smart people.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ZAHN: Angelina Jolie coming up at 10:00 tonight. That wraps it up for all of us here this evening. Thanks for joining us. Larry King starts right now.
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