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Quest Means Business
No Deal on Greece, More Talks Planned; European Stocks Mixed; US Stocks Down; Trichet on Greek Crisis; Paris Anti-Uber Protests Turn Violent; Taylor Swift Forces Apple U-Turn on Music Streaming; Sean Parker on Music Streaming
Aired June 25, 2015 - 16:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[15:59:55] (NEW YORK STOCK EXCHANGE CLOSING BELL)
POPPY HARLOW, HOST: The Dow ends slightly lower as investors wait for news on Greece. That is the closing bell as it rings on Wall Street. It
is Thursday, June the 25th.
Two steps forward and now one step back. Angela Merkel warns Greece needs to double its efforts if they want to get a deal done.
Also, rage against Uber. French taxi drivers clashing with police in violent protests today in Paris.
Also, call it the new space race. Richard Branson-backed project to try to bring the internet to everyone.
I'm Poppy Harlow and this is QUEST MEANS BUSINESS.
Good evening everyone, welcome to the program. Tonight, a warning from the German chancellor over Greece. Angela Merkel says there is such a
lack of progress in the Greek debt talks that they may be moving backwards.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ANGELA MERKEL, CHANCELLOR OF GERMANY (through translator): The finance ministers have been talking for hours. What I heard before the
meeting of the eurozone finance ministers is that we have not made the necessary progress. Some even have the sense that we've gone a little bit
backwards. So, it's very, very important that Greece works further with the three institutions.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HARLOW: Greek prime minister Alexis Tsipras headed back to the bargaining table to day in Brussels. The eurogroup of finance ministers
also tried at it again today, but the talks, once again, broke up. So now it looks like a last-ditch effort will be made on Saturday to try to avert
a possible default next week. Mr. Tsipras said he, though, is not worried.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ALEXIS TSIPRAS, PRIME MINISTER OF GREECE: I think that European history is full of disagreements, negotiations, and then compromises. So,
after the comprehensive Greek proposals, I'm confident that we will reach a compromise that will help the eurozone and Greece to overcome the crisis.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HARLOW: Tadhg Enright is following the Greek crisis for us. He joins me live from London this evening. He is saying it, Alexis Tsipras, with a
smile, there, Tadhg. Talk about someone with an outlook the glass is half full.
TADHG ENRIGHT, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes. I think you've got to maintain a sense of humor, although it is painfully slow. What's
happening tonight in Brussels is that the heads of government -- Angela Merkel, Alexis Tsipras, and others -- are meeting. They have stuff other
than Greece to talk about, but Greece clearly is the most pressing issue.
The thing is, though, of course, the politicians can't really get involved in all this, in all the negotiations, until Greece strikes a deal
with its money men and money woman. The Troika, they hare the real -- the real heavyweights in all this. That deal is what everyone is waiting for
all over the financial world and also at home in Greece.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
ENRIGHT (voice-over): On a summer's day in Athens, ordinary people sit and wait for a plan. More than a thousand miles away in Brussels,
there are negotiations to preserve the euro in Greece. And some here expect that Greeks will have to break old habits.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE (through translator): I was at a night club, and at some point, I asked for an invoice. They treated me as if I'd cursed their
entire family. That is the root of the problem. Don't ask the words "invoice" or "receipt" in Greece. They're considered evil.
ENRIGHT: Having promised no more austerity, the Greek government has given ground on more spending cuts and higher taxes. The sticking point is
who pays more, the general public and the pensioners among them, or Greece's corporate world and its employers.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE (through translator): The government's job is to bring recovery and growth. With these measures, growth cannot happen,
because growth will come through enterprise.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE (through translator): He should drop it and walk away. When they say cut the money from pensioners and put up VAT up to 23
percent, what is the point? We should leave the euro and may God help us.
ENRIGHT: In Brussels, politicians also sit and wait. For the third time since Monday, finance minsters met with little to talk about because
the Greek government and the country's lenders haven't yet agreed on a plan to keep Greece in the eurozone.
CHRISTINE LAGARDE, MANAGING DIRECTOR, IMF: For the last two weeks, the three institutions have been working together. We are coming up with a
joint proposal. It's been focused and disciplined work, and unfortunately, the other side is not there yet. So, still a lot of work to do.
ENRIGHT: Compromise has to be reached by Sunday so the Greek parliament can have enough time to back it before the money runs out. On
Tuesday, the current bailout ends.
This is a debate as much about ideology as solidarity. The only common ground that everyone wants Greece to stay in the euro, but not at
any cost.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
[16:05:08] ENRIGHT: Well, that Sunday deadline was set this morning before the talks today broke up and went nowhere, so time really is running
out, Poppy.
HARLOW: How much optimism do you sense that there truly is among all of the parties here? Because the line that we just heard from Christine
Lagarde versus what we heard from Alexis Tsipras, it seems like they could not be more far apart.
ENRIGHT: I think optimism is a bit of a see-saw, honest, in Brussels and across financial markets. Progress is being made, but really, really
slowly. The one positive to take out of it is that everybody does actually want a deal, but it is frustratingly slow. You have to maintain a sense of
humor in it all. And here's how the euro -- the president of the European Council summed up the mood.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD TUSK, PRESIDENT, EUROPEAN COUNCIL: Work is underway, and for sure, it will need, still, man hours. The last hours have been really
critical. But I have a good hunch that unlike in -- hopeless tragedies, this Greek story will have a happy end.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ENRIGHT: To finish on an optimistic note, the European Economics Commissioner, Pierre Moscovici, also said where there's a will, there is a
way. We'll see.
HARLOW: We will see. And now, the deadline looms very, very close. Thank you so much. Tadhg Enright reporting for us this evening in London.
We appreciate it.
Speaking of London, stocks in the UK slipped on concerns, of course, over Greece. This as investors on the continent appear to be waiting for
Saturday's talks to take place. In Athens, Greek shares managed to reverse earlier losses and close slightly higher.
Well, the Greek deadlock dragged Wall Street lower today. Take a look. It could not hang on to those early gains after US consumer spending
recorded its biggest increase in nearly six years.
The former head of the European Central Bank says Greece will need debt relief, and this is now a historic moment in the crisis. Jean-Claude
Trichet would know: he was one of the key architects of the Greek bailout and one of the major advocates of avoiding a Greek default.
Before we hear what he said today, I want you to listen to this from when he was speaking four years go to this month with Richard Quest.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JEAN-CLAUDE TRICHET, FORMER HEAD OF THE EUROPEAN CENTRAL BANK: It would be extremely bad to create a default in the advanced economy
constituency. Again, what we have to cope with is something which is bigger, much bigger, than Greece, much bigger than what we are observing in
the euro area.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HARLOW: That was June of 2011. We are not years or months away, we are now just days away. Trichet spoke today to CNN's Nina Dos Santos, and
he started out by saying it is complicated.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
TRICHET: The problem is both, I would say, technical. It is also political. It is also, in a way, historical. So, it's a very, very
complex situation. I would only say that one has not, of course, to under- assess the political problem in Greece, taking into account the promises that were made, which were absolutely excessive, of course, in many
respects.
We should not neglect the political problems in the friendly European economies, because they have to convince their own taxpayers that the plan
is good and that they can continue to help Greece. And it is not that easy in many countries, including countries where the parliament will decide.
We have also a big problem, which is of, I would say, technical and political nature in the IMF. Because the IMF is helping Greece when Greece
has a GDP per capita level of pensions that are significantly higher than many members of the IMF.
So, you see, one has to take into account all those issues. And of course, depending on the result, a lot will depend historically on the
future of both, I would say, Europe and the advanced economies.
NINA DOS SANTOS, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: We have Greece against the IMF, the IMF with Greece, perhaps, on the issue of the need for
debt relief, but then that pits Greece and the IMF against countries like, for instance, Germany, who say, well, look, our taxpayers shouldn't be on
the hook for Greek debt to give the Greeks a breather. They shouldn't fork out the difference.
So, between this sort of split among all these parties, where do you think the balance is going to fall this week?
TRICHET: The IMF is the international community. All the international community. I have known some stories, country X against the
IMF, because I was myself chairman of the Paris Club during ten years.
[16:10:05] It has no meaning. At the last moment, of course, you have to accept that you need a plan which is considered by the
international community as a good plan. And that is something which is a must.
So, I understand pretty well why it is complicated, but I think that it has, again, no meaning to say Greece against the IMF or accusing the
IMF. Equally, it is absurd to say that the Europeans are against the IMF or the reverse.
What we all need is a good plan that would inspire confidence in the international community, in Europe, and in Greece.
DOS SANTOS: So, what do you think the good plan would be here?
TRICHET: Well, crucially, a good plan would be a plan that would be considered by the Greek government itself in terms of helping investment
and job creation in Greece, and also which would be considered by the European friends that have helped Greece enormously, all the taxpayers in
Europe have helped Greece enormously.
And also, of course, they are called to do more efforts, and the international community. And I understand pretty well that part of the
debate is you are augmenting too much taxation and you are not diminishing sufficiently the public spending. It's one of the observations which is
made.
I can't understand the dialogue on that basis, because again, what counts is that the Greek economy will start again without being eternally
in deficit, account deficit and fiscal deficit.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
HARLOW: Well see if that is what happens. Again, that deadline looming for Sunday.
Protest in France turning very violent. Taxi drivers angry, furious, at Uber. We will have Uber's response just ahead.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
HARLOW: Well, France's interior minister says that vehicles found using the controversial Uber Pop app will now be, quote, "systematically
seized by police in France." Bernard Cazeneuve met with taxi drivers a short time ago before he made that announcement this evening.
Earlier in the day, drivers burned cars and blocked transport hubs. It's part of a nationwide strike against Uber. You are looking at some of
the images of those scuffles between protesters and police in Paris earlier today. The taxi drivers are furious over the Uber Pop ride-sharing
service, which relies on non-professional drivers. Our Jim Bittermann reports.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
(EMERGENCY VEHICLE SIREN)
JIM BITTERMANN, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): The taxi strike by thousands of drivers across the country created traffic
jams, travel chaos, stone-throwing, and fist-fights.
In Paris, Marseilles, and Leon, and other cities, airport entrances were blocked and expressways were shut down by burning tires. Travelers
heading for flights sometimes had to walk hundreds of yards and more to access the air terminals.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE (through translator): I think the French government has great responsibility, because they give the impression that
it's not their problem. So it's true that taxi drivers are facing problems, and for competition, but one which has clear rules, and it is for
the government to set the rules.
BITTERMANN: Pop singer Courtney Love tweeted that even she was caught up in the demonstrations. "They've ambushed our car and they're holding
our driver hostage," she tweeted. "They're beating the cars with metal bats. This is France? I'm safer in Baghdad.
[16:15:02] "Francois Hollande, where are the bleeping police," she said. "Is it legal for your people to attack visitors? Get your bleep to
the airport, WTF?" She then sent out a photo of the broken window of her car.
At the heart of the dispute is Uber. Taxi drivers say it's putting them out of business.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE (through translator): Our rules are strict. We buy our licenses, and they cost a lot. We can't do what we want. We don't
decide on our rates, we don't decide on our days of work. And now we have people who pay nothing, who have no training, and who run a taxi service
with any old car.
BITTERMANN: While Uber is legal in France, its lower-cost alternative, Uber Pop, is not. A French court ruled in December that the
smartphone-driven transportation application, which permits just about anyone with a driver's license to take on paying customers, is illegal in
France.
Uber has appealed that decision, but in the meantime, the French interior minister has ordered police to put a stop to Uber Pop by arresting
drivers, who can face two years in prison and a 300,000 euro fine if they're found to be operating without a chauffeur's license and proper
insurance.
BERNARD CAZENEUVE, FRENCH INTERIOR MINISTER (through translator): We live in a nation of laws, and the decisions that we took are witness to the
desire of the government to make sure laws are respected. And a nation of laws is not a nation of violence.
BITTERMANN (on camera): The situation was somewhat calmer, although still tense this afternoon. And the taxi drivers are threatening to
continue their work action if the government continues to allow Uber to compete in what is traditionally their territory on the streets of France.
Jim Bittermann, CNN, Paris.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
HARLOW: Jim, thank you for that. And in response to France saying that they will systematically seize any cars using Uber Pop, and Uber
spokesman just coming out and saying in the past few moments, quote, "We are still assessing on which legal grounds such measures could be
implemented."
Let's talk about it with CNN business correspondent Samuel Burke. Let's talk about the bigger picture here. For a lot of people watching,
they may say, Uber, Uber Pop, what's the difference? Why are they so upset in France?
SAMUEL BURKE, CNN BUSINESS CORRESPONDENT: So, I think most people are familiar with just plain Uber --
HARLOW: Sure.
BURKE: -- where someone who's a professional driver who works five, six days a week doing Uber picks you up. Uber Pop is anybody with a
license can do it.
So, let's say I'm going to the airport and I want to see, hey, maybe I can make it a bit cheaper for myself, and I see if anybody out there needs
a ride to the airport. And all of a sudden, I become a driver, and then Poppy Harlow and Samuel Burke are going to the airport, and I'm making a
little extra money. So, that's the difference.
You don't see it as much in the United States, but over in Europe, Uber Pop is much better known, and the taxicab drivers, Uber makes their
blood boil, but Uber Pop just makes their blood boil over.
HARLOW: Why does it make -- does it make them more upset, the taxi drivers, because it is that much cheaper, it's even less expensive?
BURKE: It's even less expensive, and those type of people who are just doing Uber for a couple of days don't have to go through the whole
process --
HARLOW: Sure.
BURKE: -- the bureaucracy of getting the licenses and getting your car approved and making sure that everything is up to par.
HARLOW: So, this begs the question, because Uber's valuation has been tens of billions of dollars, some have speculated, over the top. It makes
you wonder what impact do images like this out of France have on Uber's bottom line, on the business?
BURKE: It is absolutely incredible to see. Although this doesn't happen that often, it has flared up from time to time. And investors have
just kept on pouring in their money, seemingly unfazed. Uber is now eyeing, according to many reports, a $50 billion valuation in spite of the
fact that people are in the streets turning cars over and burning tires because of Uber.
HARLOW: It's extraordinary to watch. But anything -- as they say, anything worth doing isn't easy. And we're seeing companies like Uber,
like Air BnB, dealing with all of these legal hurdles as they change industries forever.
BURKE: And don't forget, the heart of these businesses, there's no question mark about their business model --
HARLOW: Right.
BURKE: -- the way there was for Facebook or Twitter --
HARLOW: Sure.
BURKE: -- how will they make money? These companies, Air BnB, Uber, the very heart of them are transactions.
HARLOW: Yes.
BURKE: And boy, are they bringing in the money --
HARLOW: Wow.
BURKE: -- in spite of everything we're seeing.
HARLOW: Extraordinary to see. Samuel Burke, thank you so much for the reporting this evening.
Well, it is an announcement that was music -- music -- to Apple's ears. Taylor Swift, she's not breaking up with Apple, she's throwing the
love at Apple. Some big news for the tech firm's music streaming service. We will tell you all about it, next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[16:20:50] (VIDEO CLIP)
(MUSIC - "WE ARE NEVER GETTING BACK TOGETHER" BY TAYLOR SWIFT)
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HARLOW: Or so we thought. That is how we thought Taylor Swift felt about streaming her music. Today, she has proved us all wrong, and Apple
is smiling ear to ear. The 25-year-old pop mega superstar made this announcement today on Twitter, quote, "After the events of this week, I've
decided to put '1989' on Apple Music and happily so."
The move came days after Swift blocked the multi-platinum album from the service. That was to protest Apple not paying recording artists during
their three-month trial period for streaming on Apple Music. Apple quickly changed its tune.
Swift today also tweeting this, quote, "This is simply the first time it felt right in my gut to stream my album. Thank you, Apple, for your
change of heart."
CNN senior media correspondent Brian Stelter is here. Taylor Swift. Can we just talk about the power of this woman --
(LAUGHTER)
HARLOW: -- on industry?
BRIAN STELTER, CNN SENIOR MEDIA CORRESPONDENT: There's nobody like her in music. Maybe Beyonce comes close. But Taylor is willing to take a
position, willing to make it public like this. Frankly, willing to negotiate in public.
And she has, and frankly, the whole music industry sort of behind her, rooting for her. We saw the recording industry of America come out
thanking her for taking this stand over the weekend.
And it was notable. Remember on Sunday, it was the day that she spoke out about this. By Sunday night, Apple had reversed itself. But she
didn't say right away that she was going to come over to Apple. She obviously waited several days to make sure the legal terms were to her
liking before she officially said today that she'd work with Apple.
HARLOW: I think it's interesting. I just interviewed Sean Parker, the man who started Napster years ago.
STELTER: The man who started the dominoes.
HARLOW: Back in the day.
STELTER: That's right.
HARLOW: He sort of did start the dominoes of streaming music --
STELTER: Yes.
HARLOW: -- and he called Taylor Swift an anomaly and said she, quote, "defies gravity." What do you think this means more broadly for the power
of artists, now that it seems that streaming has won in terms of a distribution model.
STELTER: Yes, streaming is the future, but it's in many ways already the present. Whether it's Spotify or Pandora or next, Apple Music. And
it's such a coup for Apple to be able say they have "1989."
The truth is, I actually haven't heard the whole album because it's not streaming. I'm one of those many people that's not willing to fork
over the money for the downloaded copy, but I would like to be able to stream it.
Right now, people like me just listen to her songs that are available on YouTube or somewhere else. But to have the entire album on Apple Music
is a big marketing moment for Apple, especially because this is going to come out at the end of the month.
HARLOW: One thing Taylor also tweeted that I thought was interesting is she said that this is not an exclusive deal with Apple.
STELTER: That's right.
HARLOW: She made a point to point that out.
STELTER: That was an important detail. Spotify won't comment today. We've been asking for weeks, frankly, is there going to be a change to your
war or your cold war with Taylor Swift, because she took her songs off Spotify at the end of last year, and nothing has been put back ever since.
We've wondered, now that this Apple Music deal is done, is she going to think about doing a deal with Spotify. There's no comment yet. But the
point is, she's open to those deals, she's open to going elsewhere as well.
HARLOW: So, let me ask you this bigger picture. Interesting report I was reading this week on Vox media, and they said Apple is always going to
win given this because they don't need to make a lot of money off of streaming, they make so much money elsewhere, that how are the other
streaming services going to keep up?
STELTER: That's exactly why there was so much fear and trepidation disguised as excitement on the day that Apple Music was announced. All the
competitors said they welcomed Apple to the arena, but that is precisely why they are fearful of this new entrant.
Apple has the ability to come over and take over this marketplace, at least for people that are willing to pay a little more and willing to pay a
little more and willing to live within Apple's ecosystem. As we've seen with Microsoft, there's always lots of people with Android phones --
HARLOW: Sure.
STELTER: -- who are happy to have other platforms. But Apple was able to have such a dominant player --
HARLOW: Yes.
STELTER: -- when it wants to be. And music's now the next place it's paying attention to.
HARLOW: I do think you have to sort of be unhappy to switch, though, because I listen to Spotify on my iPhone, I'm happy with it, it works, and
so why would I switch? So, I wonder if we're going to see how many people we'll see switch over.
STELTER: Well, we'll see how much of a factor Taylor Swift is with that.
HARLOW: Yes.
STELTER: Now that we know this is where you can listen --
HARLOW: Sure.
STELTER: -- to her whole album.
HARLOW: I can't get her on Spotify.
STELTER: How much of a factor will that be? I think that could help Apple, at least in a marginal way --
HARLOW: Yes.
STELTER: -- bring over some new people.
HARLOW: Yes.
STELTER: But like you said, she said it's not exclusive. She's interested in doing deals with other people, but on her terms.
[16:25:03] HARLOW: So, we'll see who.
STELTER: And her terms are the terms that will affect the whole industry.
HARLOW: Yes. Brian Stelter, thank you so much.
STELTER: Thanks.
HARLOW: Good to have you on as always.
Well, if anyone is qualified, as Brian and I just talked about, to say where the online music market is headed, it is Sean Parker. He co-founded
the download site Napster that was shut down after huge legal battles. He was only 19 years old when he did that. Now he is a board member and a
huge advisor to Spotify.
His view is that the subscription model has clearly won and that rival sites like Apple Music and Spotify should be able to share in the rewards.
I sat down with him this week at his home in Los Angeles to talk about that and, of course, Taylor Swift.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
SEAN PARKER, BOARD MEMBER, SPOTIFY, AND CO-FOUNDER, NAPSTER: This is an industry that is going through a what seems like an incredibly agonizing
and long transition. It's pretty clear at this point that the subscription model has won, and you see that now with Apple Music.
HARLOW: So, since the subscription model has won, as someone -- board member, huge advisor for Spotify, the question becomes, who wins? Apple
Music, Spotify, some of the others? Does there need to be a winner?
PARKER: I don't think that this market works the same way as social media, where there's a powerful network effect that causes a lock-in. I
think that music as a service is something where there can be multiple winners. So, I don't think it's a winner-take-all market in the way that
some of these other technology companies have been.
HARLOW: Interesting. Right, because if you think of a My Space and a Facebook, it was the opposite.
PARKER: Right. And that's because you -- network-based products --
HARLOW: Yes.
PARKER: -- have network effects. You want to be where your friends are, your friends want to be where their friends are. They tend to
collapse to one or two --
HARLOW: Yes.
PARKER: -- kind of major companies.
(MUSIC - "SHAKE IT OFF" BY TAYLOR SWIFT)
HARLOW: So, what has Taylor Swift taught us about this industry and streaming music, right? I mean, just this week, she and Apple clashed, and
she won.
PARKER: Taylor is a bit of an anomaly in the music industry in the sense that she's still able to sell a lot of downloads, she's still able to
sell in some parts of the country CDs. She has a huge fan base, and she sort of defies gravity in the sense that very few artists have that kind of
built-in fan base and will continue to buy their albums.
HARLOW: You want her back?
PARKER: The interesting thing in looking at the numbers, there was no evidence in looking at the data of a change in consumption or usage when
Taylor left the platform. So, even if you take out one major contemporary artist, it really doesn't affect the overall usage.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Jay-Z.
(CROWD CHEERS)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes.
HARLOW: Jay-Z's Tidal, the claim there is put the power back in the hands of the artists. Do you stay up at night thinking about competition
from Tidal?
PARKER: Generally when we've seen new entrants trying to compete with Spotify, they've had a really hard time getting critical mass.
HARLOW: They don't always have Jay-Z behind them.
PARKER: Well, it hasn't -- attracted enough customers quickly enough for them. It's about scale. And this is one of the great misconceptions
about platforms like Spotify. We're returning 70 percent of the revenue to the artists through their record labels and, in some cases, directly.
So, in that sort of model, to -- it takes years to become as big as Spotify, and it's unclear whether Tidal or any of the new entrants have the
staying power to get to that kind of scale.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
HARLOW: Sean Parker there.
Deadlocked talks, banks on life support, a looming deadline. We have brought you the take from Brussels on the Greek debt crisis, but what do
the Greek people think? The view from Athens is next.
[16:29:13] (COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[16:31:29] HARLOW: Hello I'm Poppy Harlow. There is more "Quest Means Business" in just a moment, but first we give you the top news
headlines when we are back with "Quest Means Business."
South Africa calls for a criminal investigation into a 2012 shooting at platinum mine. Also the World Wide Web from outer space -- why Richard
Branson believes that is indeed the future. Before that, though, here are your top news headlines this hour.
In a majority vote, the U.S. Supreme Court has ruled that the U.S. Affordable Care Act subsidies will stand. It is a significant win for U.S.
President Barack Obama whose signature healthcare law affects millions of Americans.
(BEGIN VIDEOCLIP)
BARACK OBAMA, UNITED STATES PRESIDENT: As the dust has settled, there can be no doubt that this law is working. It has changed and in some cases
saved American lives. It has set this country on a smarter, stronger course.
And today after more than 50 votes in Congress to repeal or weaken this law, after a presidential election based in part on preserving or
repealing this law, after multiple challenges to this law before the Supreme Court, the Affordable Care Act is her to stay.
(END VIDEOCLIP)
HARLOW: Meantime, ISIS had infiltrated the Syrian border town of Kobani. According to a Kurdish official, many civilians there have been
killed. The group has also attacked the northern city of al-Hasakah in what appears to be an offensive following recent Kurdish gains.
In Pakistan, more than 1,000 people have died in that heatwave since Saturday. The crisis is centered around the nation's largest city of
Karachi. The unreliable supply of water and power makes it nearly impossible to escape from the heat.
French taxi drivers blocked roads in Paris today in protest to the online ride-sharing service UberPop that uses non-professional drivers.
(BEGIN VIDEOCLIP)
(PEOPLE SHOUTING)
(END VIDEOCLIP)
HARLOW: Riot police were called in as scuffles broke out. Cab drivers insist UberPop is unfair because it charges riders less. France's
interior minister says that vehicles found using UberPop will now be quote, "systematically seized" by French police.
And talks between Greece and its international creditors have ended for the day, and once again no deal. The Eurogroup president says they
will resume on Saturday with those talks. IMF chief Christine Lagarde says Athens needs to catch up.
(BEGIN VIDEOCLIP)
CHRISTINE LAGARDE, MANAGING DIRECTOR, INTERNATIONAL MONETARY FUND: For the last few weeks the three institutions have been working together.
We are coming up with a joint proposal. It's been focused and disciplined work and unfortunately the other side is not there yet. So still a lot of
work to do.
(END VIDEOCLIP)
HARLOW: The head of the Bundesbank is not happy today, sharply criticizing the mounting reliance of Greek banks on ECB emergency funding.
It now exceeds 84 billion euros.
Greeks have withdrawn billions and billions of dollars from banks in recent months there. During a speech in Frankfurt, Weidmann had plenty to
say about emergency liquidity assistance or ELA.
(BEGIN VIDEOCLIP)
JENS WEIDMANN, BUNDESBANK PRESIDENT: We should also be clear to all the parties to the current negotiations that the Euro system must not
provide bridge financing to Greece even in anticipation of later disbursements.
[16:35:01] With banks without access to markets by debts of a sovereign (AUDIO GAP) which is likewise locked out of the market, taking
recourse to ELA raises serious monetary financing concerns.
(END VIDEOCLIP)
HARLOW: Well a spiraling debt crisis and the criticism it has attracted is very worrying to of course the Greek people. Greek public
television anchor Fanis Papathanasiou is with me now. He has seen it for himself and he joins me from Athens.
Thank you for being with me, sir, I appreciate it.
FANIS PAPATHANASIOU, ANCHOR, GREEK PUBLIC TELEVISION ERT: Nice to be with you, Poppy.
HARLOW: Let me ask you this. Greek Prime Minister Alexis Tsipras put it this way - seeming very confident - saying, "History is full of
disagreements, negotiations and then compromises." Saying he believes that a compromise will be reached.
You listen to Christine Lagarde at the IMF and so many others and they say Greek - Greece - really, really needs to catch up. How do the Greek
people feel? Are they confident?
PAPATHANASIOU: They're confident but at the same time worried. They're very concerned about this situation and they wait and see how and
when this drama will finish at least for now.
The people are not spending -- they're not in a mood to spend -- the economy's struggling, the corporations/the companies are giving - having -
hard time in order to survive.
Tourists is an industry that the government is expecting especially this summer as a lot of income but it seems that only foreign tourists will
spend money and enjoy the Greek islands. I have some friends telling me that either don't have money to spend and go for vacation.
I have some other friends telling me that might have money but are not in the mood to go for vacation.
And have some other friends that they wait and see when this drama will be over because they are scared of a possible Grexit or Grexident and
if these are saying that they will finish, they'll make plans to go for vacation with their families after this Grexident is over.
HARLOW: Look, if Greece misses its payment deadline to pay 1 and 1/2 billion euros to the IMF by Tuesday, they may have to introduce these
capital controls to prevent a run on the bank. I'm wondering if you are seeing - so the average person, your friends or colleagues - pulling their
money from Greek banks already?
PAPATHANASIOU: Yes, the withdrawals these days especially during the two or three days is limited compared what's happened to last week. Last
week, especially Friday and Thursday, there were a lot of withdrawals and people were scared for a capital control.
No, I have my money in the bank, I'm convinced that Greece will not default because default is going to be a catastrophe for Greece. But at
the same time, it's going to have serious consequences for Italy, France and other countries in the Eurozone and the international markets.
But you have different attitudes. I have my mother that is calling me every day and is asking me what she will do with her money - a few
thousands (inaudible) in the bank.
I have some other friends that have taken all the money from the bank, and I have some other friends that they go and take their money from the
banks on Friday and return it on Monday because during the last weeks, their fear during the last days of the week, that something will happen
during the week and either default or a capital control.
So people are scared, go on Friday, get their money and return the money to the bank on Mondays.
HARLOW: Fanis Papathanasiou, thank you for joining me this evening, sir, and good luck to you and the people of Greece in all of this. We
appreciate it.
PAPATHANASIOU: Thank you.
HARLOW: Two of Europe's biggest oil companies have admitted to holding talks in Iran with Iranian leaders. Royal Dutch Shell and Eni say
that they have been discussing business plans even though sanctions are still in place.
Negotiations are underway to lift those sanctions against Iran in exchange for a curb on its nuclear program. From Abu Dhabi John Defterios
has more.
(BEGIN VIDEOCLIP)
JOHN DEFTERIOS, CNN EMERGING MARKETS EDITOR: These discussions by the European oil giants are a clear indication how much interest there is in
this energy frontier of Iran. Both Royal Dutch Shell and Eni of Italy confirming it was a two-prong mission aimed at recovering past debts and
exploring future collaboration if the talks over Iran's nuclear program are a success.
At the recent OPEC meeting in Vienna, Iran's energy minister Bijan Zangeneh was in high demand and very popular. Here's why. Iran sits on
157 barrels of proven reserves, just over 9 percent of the global total. It also has just over 18 percent of the global total in natural gas
reserves as well.
Iran today is producing around 2.7 million barrels a day but has capped it around 1 million barrels a day of exports under sanctions. If
they were lifted, Iranian officials remain confident the country could add another million barrels a day in just six months.
The country has big aspirations to hit its pre-sanctions level of 4.3 million barrels a day by 2020. That will depend in large part on the
structure of future agreements.
[16:40:04] If Iran engages the oil vagers (ph) as only producers - a so-called fee-based model - or engage them as joint venture partners, and a
spokeswoman for Eni alluded to this in a call today -- "Eni would be interested in Iran if sanctions are lifted but under mutually favourable
conditions."
There's also one final item to consider - if Iran was allowed back into the market, it could add more downward pressure and prices with global
supplies already at near-record highs.
John Defterios, CNN Abu Dhabi.
(END VIDEOCLIP)
HARLOW: Well internet delivered by satellites in space. Sir Richard Branson is throwing his backing Virgin's name and money behind another
competitor in this market. We speak to him and the CEO of Open Web about the project next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
HARLOW: The race to provide internet from space now has two big-name competitors - Richard Branson's Virgin Group along with Coca-Cola, Airbus,
Qualcomm and a handful of other companies are backing internet satellite company OneWeb. Together, they are injecting $500 million into funding
that venture.
OneWeb aiming to deploy hundreds of little satellites in pretty low orbit. The point is they want to bring high-speed internet and phone
service to people without connections in very, very remote areas.
They have competition in this space though of course. Elon Musk's SpaceX is working on a similar project. That firm wants to start testing
NASA technology next year.
Earlier today, I spoke with Richard Branson alongside the CEO and founder of OneWeb Greg Wyler. I asked Greg what the broader social
implications are for people that live in the most rural places.
(BEGIN VIDEOCLIP)
GREG WYLER, CEO AND FOUNDER, ONEWEB: That's the primary mission is to enable affordable access into those remote regions. The fundamental issue
is the current technologies that cable and the fiber infrastructure costs a lot of money to string from telephone pole to telephone pole or to trench
out from the cities into the rural areas.
And there needs to be a technology and that's what this is, enable technology to allow the current operators - the mobile operators and other
communications companies - to bring this connectivity to these people in the rural areas at an affordable price.
HARLOW: So, Richard, Virgin Galactic's LauncherOne is going to be launching a number of these satellites. You've obviously put your name,
your company, a lot of money behind this. But this has been tried in the past and it's proven to be slower than expected in terms of adoption and
really expensive. It's been tough. Why is it different this time?
RICHARD BRANSON, FOUNDER, VIRGIN GROUP: Well, this hasn't been tried before. I mean, you know, so 20 years ago people tried something very
different. The technology's moved forward. You know, Virgin Galactic for instance didn't exist.
HARLOW: Right.
BRANSON: And Virgin Galactic will be able to launch a satellite two hours' notice. In the past you would have had to wait a year to get a slot
on a satellite.
[16:45:06] So a lot about the technology's moved forward. We've got wonderful partners like Qualcomm and Airbus and others on board, and I
think, you know, together we can create something which will enable people - you know - the three billion - some of the three billion - people who
don't have international Wi-Fi access to get it.
HARLOW: Obviously, Richard, this is a business venture, right? I mean, you know, the expectation is that it will eventually be profitable.
But also just on a societal impact scale, what do you see in terms of the ability of this to help close the wealth gap, for example?
BRANSON: I think it could dramatically help close the wealth gap. If you're out in the rural part of Africa and you have a mobile phone or you
have the internet, with the internet you can educate your children, with a mobile phone you can start a business. And I think you then become on a
much more level playing field with somebody else who has the mobile phone or internet access or Wi-Fi access.
And that's, you know, that's the important breakthrough. And without an array - massive array - of satellites like this, you would have no
chance. So hopefully it should make a big difference.
HARLOW: Richard, let me ask you this and then to you, Greg, I want you to jump in. Elon Musk's SpaceX is also competing with you in this
space. They are planning to launch more satellites than you guys - about 4,000 - I'm wondering, Richard, how formidable of a competitor SpaceX is or
do you see them as a partner down the road?
BRANSON: Elon's a great friend. We've been friends for years and, you know, if he goes ahead with his project, that's great because we need
as much connectivity in this world as possible. The reason that we partnered up with Greg was that he's been working on it quite a bit longer
and we felt he was, you know, further advanced, that he had - you know - he had the slots, he had the network, he had the licenses for it.
But if Elon can come along and create a network as well, both of us I think will do very well because, you know, there's an awful lot of people
out there that need to be connected.
WYLER: And there's so much demand out there and there's so many people in the communications industry working on building networks, whether
it's terrestrial networks or satellite networks, there's plenty of them that are being worked on and looking for funding.
And we've got our mission, we've got our goals, we've got our partners. Some of the hardest parts about this system have nothing to do
with satellites actually. The hardest part is probably the chip sets in the terminals - the chip sets that allow the satellites to function at very
high speed and handover, and the chip sets that allow your cell phone and table to connect directly to the terminals seamlessly as an extension of a
mobile operator using your current prepaid or post-paid plans. These are deep (ph) technologies.
HARLOW: It's extraordinary to watch and to see how all of this is unfolding, and what I think it's going to mean - whether it's, you know,
from your company, what Elon Musk is doing if others jump into the game what this means for the world and populations that have not been connected
before.
Good luck to you both, Greg and Richard.
WYLER: Thank you.
BRANSON: Thanks very much.
HARLOW: And "Quest Means Business" will be back right after this.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[16:50:05] HARLOW: In South Africa there are calls for a full criminal investigation of police officers involved in the 2012 shooting of
striking mine workers. Thirty-four miners were killed, many more were injured at the Lonmin Marikana Platinum Mine in what became the deadliest
police action in post-apartheid South Africa.
The report also faults the Lonmin Mining Company for not doing enough to address the dispute with its workers. In a statement today the company
acknowledging the findings saying, quote, "As a company we have worked hard over the past two and a half years to build a more open, transparent and
mutually trustworthy environment, and in the process make Lonmin a safer, better place to work." CNN's Diana Magnay is joining us from Johannesburg,
South Africa this evening and has more. Good evening, Diana.
DIANA MAGNAY, INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT FOR CNN: Hi, Poppy. Well the families of those murdered at Marikana have had to wait almost three
years for this report to come out and I think there will be a lot disappointed people in Marikana tonight -- disappointed but perhaps not
surprised that the finger of blame does not go further up the chain of command.
And I'd like to warn our viewers that this report contains some extremely graphic content.
(BEGIN VIDEOCLIP)
(SOUND OF GUNSHOTS)
MAGNAY: August the 16th, 2012, images of miners gunned down in a hail of police bullets broadcast across the world. Slaughter caught on camera.
The blood of 34 miners a stain on the record of the South Africa.
REHAD DESAI, FILMMAKER, "MINERS SHOT DOWN": The shootings at Marikana is nothing less than a massacre. It was a one-sided affair. It was
planned. This is the most disturbing thing. In Sharpeville in 1960 when the white police opened fire, that was spontaneous. This was planned.
MAGNAY: Rehad Desai's a filmmaker whose documentary "Miners Shot Down" pieces together what happened at Marikana and during the Commission
of Inquiry which was set up to investigate the killings.
Female: Let us take note of the (inaudible), whatever happened represents the fact of responsible parties.
DESAI: They were actually corralled towards a firing squad. These are the words of the Commission staff and the fact that these shooters were
never called before the Commission of Inquiry to be asked what were your orders, what was going through your head I think is the biggest critique of
the Commission to date.
MAGNAY: The killing hadn't stopped with the first wave. A hundred meters away, away from the television cameras, was this pile of rocks.
Dozens of miners then fled here but the police gave chase, hunting them down, shooting 17 of them at close range in amongst these rocks. Witnesses
testifying to the Commission that many of those miners had had their hands up in the air begging for surrender.
LUNGISILE MADWANSI, INJURED MINER AT MARIKANA MASSACRE: That was day from Monday to Friday (inaudible).
MAGNAY: Lungisile Madwansi was one of the 78 miners injured that day.
Male: Where I was hurt by the helcopt (ph).
MAGNAY: Shot in the head as he ran for his live.
MADWANSI: This government is corrupt. And they don't care about this Marikana massacre because they know about that Marikana massacre and many
of them are involved of this Marikana massacre.
MAGNAY: But whilst recommending that the police at Marikana be investigated for criminal wrongdoing and that the national police
commissioner's fitness for office be probed, the president said there was no wrongdoing found at a cabinet level.
JACOB ZUMA, PRESIDENT, SOUTH AFRICA: The Commission found that the executive played no role in the decision of the police to implement the
tactical option on the 16th August 2012.
MAGNAY: Leaving the families of those killed at Marikana with a sense that justice is still far from being served.
(END VIDEOCLIP)
MAGNAY: And that very much the topic of debate here in South Africa now that at an executive level no one was found responsible for what
happened that day at Marikani - namely the deputy president Cyril Ramaphosa who was then on the board of Lonmin at the time of Marikana.
He was one of the men who set up the National Union of Mine Workers. He was on the board of Lonmin, there is documentation to suggest that he
was very much involved alongside the police minister with Lonmin and the SAPS strategy on how to deal with these miners.
But he is cleared of blame, the police minister is cleared of blame. Just the national police commissioner will be probed to see whether she is
fit for office.
[16:55:00] And I think you'll find many people are asking why after a 293-day inquiry, recommendations are being made for yet another inquiry.
It feels as though this pursuit of justice is being pushed further and further down the line whilst those who really gave the commands for what
happened that day are walking scot free. Poppy.
HARLOW: It's just hard to imagine how these families must feel - justice delayed once again. Diana Magnay, powerful report. Thank you very
much from Johannesburg for us this evening. We'll be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
HARLOW: The CEO of Takata has spoken publicly now for the first time since an investigation into the company's defective car airbags began last
year. In a press conference, Mr. Takata apologized to the families of the eight people whose deaths have been linked to the company's airbags
exploding.
(BEGIN VIDEOCLIP)
SHIGEHISA TAKADA, CEO, TAKATA, VIA INTERPRETER: First of all, I would like to offer my deepest condolences to the victims who died in accidents
caused by damages from our inflators and well wishing to those who were injured.
We have caused tremendous troubles and concerns to many. I would like to apologize to those people. We have been analyzing and getting advice
from the third-party investigation organization. To my regret, it is true that we have not gotten to the bottom of the issue yet.
(END VIDEOCLIP)
HARLOW: The injuries were caused by shrapnel from those exploding Takata airbags. Tens of millions of vehicles have been affected in what
has become the largest recall in automotive history. The company is considering setting up a fund to compensate the victims because of the
company's fault.
And just a final check on how U.S. stocks closed today. The Greek deadlock dragged Wall Street lower at the end of the session, closing down
75 points.
In Europe, London - and in London specifically - stocks also slipped over concerns about Greece while investors on the continent appear to be
waiting for Saturday's talks.
That is "Quest Means Business" for today. I'm Poppy Harlow. Good night.
END
