Return to Transcripts main page

Quest Means Business

The Strongest Warning Yet Against Britain Crashing Out Of The European Union Without A Deal; Voting Is Under Way In The U.S. Senate On Two Proposals To Reopen The Government; Stocks Dipped After The Commerce Secretary Said That The U.S. And China Are Miles And Miles Apart On A Trade Deal; Senate Votes on Shutdown Proposal; Search Called Off for Emiliano Sala's Plane; Renault Names New Leaders to Replace Carlos Ghosn; Oil Prices Rise Amid Political Crisis in Venezuela; Russia Warns Against Military Intervention in Venezuela; Candidates Emerge for World Bank Presidency; WTO Chief: U.S. and China Can Reach Trade Truce; Second Bill to Re-Open U.S. Government Fails in Senate; Huawei Sales Soar Despite Pressure from Western Governments; Actor Matt Damon Drums Up Support for Clean Water; Investors React to Trade Comments, Shutdown and Earnings

Aired January 24, 2019 - 15:00   ET


RICHARD QUEST, HOST, QUEST MEANS BUSINESS: As we head to the close on Wall Street, one hour left on trading and there are strong warnings from Europe

about a no-deal Brexit. Airbus on the IMF warn of harsh consequences. Wilbur Ross says a deal with China on trade is miles away ahead of the WTO

isn't quite so uncertain. And the airline stocks may be soaring, but the market is in the doldrums. Live from the World Economic Forum in Davos, I

am Richard Quest with Sidney Snowbot, Looking a bit blue today. It must be cold.

I just realized since I was so busy with the cold and Sidney, I forgot to say, "I mean business." And absolutely tonight because we have an all-star

lineup for you here in Davos. Now, think about it, we've got the head of the IMF and the World Trade Organization, the WTO and we're keeping a very

close eye on Capitol Hill. There you are. The Senate is holding two votes which could reopen the government either with or without funding for Donald

Trump's border wall.

They are going to vote on both of them. But let's not get too excited. At the moment, neither vote is expected to pass. So we'll keep you updated as

the results come in, but we'll move on as we wait actually for some developments.

Tonight, the strongest warning yet against Britain crashing out of the European Union without a deal. The CEO of Airbus, one of Europe's top

employers says its U.K. plants may not survive a so called hard Brexit. Tom Enders says, it's a disgrace that businesses still can't plan for the


From London, CNN's Anna Stewart reports.


ANNA STEWART, CORRESPONDENT, CNN (voice over): It's the starkest warning yet from a business leader. Tom Enders the CEO of aircraft maker Airbus

laying out in no uncertain terms what Brexit could mean.


TOM ENDERS, CEO, AIRBUS: If there is a no-deal Brexit, we, at Airbus will have to make potentially very harmful decisions for the U.K.


STEWART (voice over): Not just risking future investments in Britain, he says, but the very existence of the factories which are already here.

STEWART (on camera): Let's take a look at Airbus by numbers. It employs some 14,000 workers here in the U.K. and also, it supports an additional

110,000 jobs through various supply chains. It's a major contributor to Britain's economy. You will see here, it contributes around $10 billion to

the U.K. GDP and there are other things here, as well.

It has apprenticeship schemes, education. It contributes to R&D, all things that are really tricky to quantify, but essentially attract business

and investment to the U.K. shores.

STEWART (voice over): The Brexit Secretary was quick to respond.


STEPHEN BARCLAY, BRITISH BREXIT SECRETARY: I personally take very seriously the warning from the Chief Executive of Airbus. But I remind the

Honorable Lady that he supports the Prime Minister's deal. Many business regard the deal as the way of delivering certainty through the

implementation period.


STEWART (voice over): Much of Ender's warning published on YouTube was directed at U.K. politicians.


ENDERS: Please don't listen to the Brexit deal's madness which asserts that because we have huge plans here, we will not move and we will always

be. They're wrong. It's a disgrace that more than two years after we started the 2016 referendum, businesses are still unable to plan properly

for the future.


STEWART (voice over): He's not alone in the business community. Just this week, Sony announced it is moving its legal base from London to Amsterdam

joining manufacturing group, Schaeffler, Deutsche Bank, Goldman Sachs, Citibank - all of which have already moved assets from the U.K. to Europe.

In fact, financial firms have already shifted one trillion dollars out of the country according to a report by EY.


ENDERS: We, at Airbus look back fondly on everything we have achieved with our magnificent U.K. workforce.


STEWART (voice over): Warnings like this one aren't likely to be the last until a no-deal Brexit is taken off the table.




STEWART (voice over): Anna Stewart, CNN, London.


QUEST: Here, there's a growing sense of worry around the British government's Brexit plans or lack thereof. Earlier, the Finance Minister,

Philip Hammond was absent from a panel discussion that he was listed to attend. The government said, the speaker list was published before the

Chancellor had confirmed, but he still missed the panel.

And then an awkward moment at that panel that featured the Bank of England's Mark Carney. The audience was asked about a second referendum.



JEFF CUTMORE, HOST, CNBC: Do you think there should be a second referendum in the U.K. now that the Brits have had a chance to see what this now

means? Put your hand up if you think there should be. You're not voting on this one, Mark?


QUEST: Europe's divisions were laid bare when it comes to Brexit. What brings everyone together now is the center of concern.


MARK RUTTE, DUTCH PRIME MINISTER: At this moment, there is this ball rolling of Brexit and if we are not careful, there is this Dover cliff.

SERGIO ERMOTTI, CEO, UBS: That inability to find a solution on both sides of the equation is astonishing.

FRANS VAN HOUTEN, CEO, PHILIPS: We are all concerned that supply chains get disrupted and that is bad for customers. It's bad for business. So we

all worry about it.

RALPH HAMERS, CEO, ING: Is it irresponsible? It is a bit of irresponsible leadership if that's really the card they want to play.

BRUNO LE MAIRE, FRENCH ECONOMY It's up to the British to avoid a situation. We have a deal. We have an agreement, which is a fair agreement which has

been negotiated by Michel Barnier. Now, it's up to British people to know what they want.


QUEST: Hadas Gold is here. You've been taking the temperature and listening to all this. And there's a sort of feeling here, aghast that

this has been allowed to get so far.

HADAS GOLD, CORRESPONDENT, CNN: There has been. There's almost a panic sense this happened. You hear that in the anger, for example, in Tom

Ender's voice in that video message today on Airbus. You hear that in the politicians that we have had interviewed right here and on the panels that

they sit. I have yet to actually hear a pro-no-deal, pro sort of complete Brexit off the hard cliff voice here in Davos because the people here did

not want Brexit likely in the first place. Today has been sort of all about Brexit.

QUEST: They all start with the same Rubric, don't they? Everybody starts with, "I respect the decision of the British public." Then they go on to


GOLD: Well, then they go on to say that ultimately, the ultimate deal they would like to see is probably the softest Brexit you could possibly have,

because they recognize that if they say that don't agree with what the British public said, then it's them talking down to the people and the way

the people voted and then it is the Davos elites speaking down to the people and as though they know better than what the voters actually voted


And they recognize that it could harm British democracy. But I have to say, speaking to business leaders here and speaking to people who work in

the investment and investment venture capital firms, speaking to people who work in technology, they don't see Europe as a safe place to do business

right now. They don't see the U.K. as a safe place to do business.

QUEST: Hang on, hang on. Because of Brexit or because of other worries? And by safe, we are not talking about physical. We're not talking about

physical harm.

GOLD: No, no. It will because a lot of it has to do with Brexit, just uncertainty. How can you plan for an investment? How can you plan for

anything really beyond the next few weeks or the next few months because they have no idea what is going to happen? Business wants certainty. They

just want to know what is going to happen. Even if they don't like it, they just want to know.

Instead, what I'm hearing is interest in obviously, a lot of interest in Asia and even North America they say. They're happy with what's going on

there. They're not talking about Europe.

QUEST: With that worry about it, they just want certainty. What really they are aghast about is that it is so late and this is, I suppose they

could have lived with Brexit if they had known in advance and could prepare.

GOLD: Right, I mean, just the pure fact that to this point we are 60 odd days away from that March 29th cliff's edge and they still have no idea

whether it is going to be a hard Brexit or whether there is going to be some sort of extension whether there is going to be some sort of deal and

that is just mind boggling to a lot of the people here and they think that the politicians have completely just lost it.

QUEST: All right, good to see you. Thank you for joining us and enjoying the cold.

GOLD: It was great fun.

QUEST: Christine Lagarde says the United Kingdom is in danger of serious economic plans if it falls into the no-deal scenario. The IMF Managing

Director told me Brexit is one of the biggest challenges facing the world right now.


CHRISTINE LAGARDE, MANAGING DIRECTOR, INTERNATIONAL MONETARY FUND: Brexit is a huge question mark for the United Kingdom and for the European Union

and for the world, yes.

QUEST: A no-deal Brexit. Everybody says they don't want it, but the real fear is Mark Rutte said speaking here is that this rock is rolling towards

the edge of a cliff. What is your biggest fear where Brexit is concerned?

LAGARDE: The biggest fear is no deal. Clearly, because our job is to try to anticipate what the consequences will be from a financial and economic

point of view and the outcome of a no-deal Brexit on March 29th is very serious for the U.K. economy and we are talking about shrinking - a

shrinking economy by, you know, anywhere between 7% and 8% in the medium term. That's a big deal.


QUEST: Before we go to the "World of Worries," U.S.-China trade tariffs. Something people like yourself never wanted to see is more tariffs. Brexit

and the breakup - not a break with the European Union, but certainly a very serious --

LAGARDE: An exit.

QUEST: An exit from the European Union that will have major dislocations, a slow down at the same time. Back to our weather analogy which I think we

always manage to stretch beyond endurance. The clouds are there. It will be rain next.

LAGARDE: Which is why we need to have roofs that are fixed and houses that are coming together so that there is cooperation.

QUEST: Choose a pen. Color.

LAGARDE: I'll pick - what is the sign of hope? Green or blue, I never remember. Green is hope.

QUEST: Green is hope, right. It's a new day, this is full. So you're the first person on our second chart. You can either join somebody else or

what is your biggest worry at the moment? That you think for the world.

LAGARDE: Okay. I was tempted to add of man, but I think hubris is bad news anyway.

QUEST: Of men. Hubris. I'll have the pen back first. Why do you say hubris?

LAGARDE: Because I think, I have huge faith in people and I think that if hubris could be put aside, there are a lot of things that could be



QUEST: The Managing Director of the IMF, Christine Lagarde, the wall has been the "World of Worries," as we read all over. It was so full. We only

budgeted for one day and all of a sudden, we go on to the next. There we go, hubris, you will see who was - you will see who was digital, who was

inclusive and who was inequalities as we continue.

And you'll also hear about what Wilbur Ross, U.S. Commerce Secretary. He says a deal with China is miles away.


QUEST: Voting is under way in the U.S. Senate on two proposals to reopen the government. One has funding for a border wall, the other does not.

Both are expected to be defeated. It's Day 33 of the shutdown and there's still no end in sight. Eight hundred thousand Federal workers and their

families will miss a second paycheck in a row tomorrow.

Many furloughed employees across the U.S. have been eating from food banks and homeless shelters during the shutdown.


QUEST: Wilbur Ross, the billionaire investor who is the current U.S. Commerce Secretary says he doesn't understand why people just don't take

out loans to cover the gap?


ANDREW ROSS SORKIN, ANCHOR, CNBC: Mr. Secretary, there are reports that there are some Federal workers who are going to homeless shelters to get


WILBUR ROSS, U.S. COMMERCE SECRETARY: Well, I know they are. And I don't really quite understand why. There is no real reason why they shouldn't be

able to get a loan against it.


QUEST: Now, I want you to get your phones and go to The question we're asking this hour, are U.S. political leaders on either side

out of touch with ordinary Americans? I'm going to go further. Are U.S. political leaders out of touch? Vote at and we'll discuss the

results in just a moment and David Gergen is here, adviser to presidents of all colors and stripes.


QUEST: Good to see you. Wilbur Ross saying that. Why don't they just go and take out loans?

GERGEN: Wilbur Ross meet Maria Antoinette, is that what a high school paper is saying.

QUEST: Yes, let them eat cake.

GERGEN: Yes, let them eat cake. Exactly right. You know and this is especially pertinent, too, as we meet in Davos and questions about leaders

and the country and are the people coming to Davos out of touch with people down here?

In a lot of instances, I think we have lost too much touch. But I have known Wilbur Ross, not well. I think he is a fine gentleman. I do think

in this particular case he just blew it.

QUEST: Listen to how Brian Moynihan of Bank of America, not referring directly to Wilbur Ross, but as he was talking about how Bank of America is



BRIAN MOYNIHAN, CEO, BANK OF AMERICA: We treated the hurricanes last year and the wildfires. They can forebear payments. They can a loan, a zero-

interest loan, a product to carry them until the money comes in. They are going to get paid. That's been signed already. We don't report them to

the Credit Bureaus if they don't make the payments. All the things we do and frankly in any other natural disaster we put in place and we have

proactively e-mailed all the clients and said, let us know if you need help.


QUEST: What he's saying is we are ready and we are doing our bit.

GERGEN: Exactly. And that's what the Federal government ought to be. I mean, occasionally, the government does stop, as we've seen it several

times in the last few years. It's amazing that we don't have money to pay these people why do we call them back to work? It's just - it's heartless

and it seems cruel.

QUEST: But the American people do not seem to be that angry about it as we talked about earlier. You said that the other day. Not yet, but what day

do they get angry?

GERGEN: Well, that's three days later. Let's give it a little time. But you have noticed that the President's poll are dropping like a rock. The

ANP polling went down 42% approval down to 34.

QUEST: His decision to give in on the State of the Union.


QUEST: Do you think it was just because somebody said, you know, going somewhere else is a really bad idea and any way, she can stop you.

GERGEN: Exactly, I think the best thing they could do is just get rid of that story and move on to other things as they will move on to China and

Wilbur Ross' comments today I think are part of the prelude for this administration saying don't expect much out of these meetings that are

coming up on China. They have already canceled one set of meetings this week as you know - this coming week as you know.

QUEST: We've just be told that the first plan - I am not sure which one was this - in the Senate, failed. It was expected to fail. How can these?

How can these fail? The House has got a whole series of measures that they've passed. The Senate is now passing theirs. Why bother going for it

if you know it's going to fail?

GERGEN: Well because the word is if you could have each House demonstrate where it wants and the gap still exists that maybe after they both vote

they will finally start to talk to each other.

QUEST: David, you talk about being the elite here. I actually think it's been a very good Davos because the top politicians aren't here. They are

dealing with real issues and there isn't awareness by CEOs, I think, that they could really screw it up with the populations and employees if they

don't get it right.

GERGEN: I think that's right. I do sense a new spirit among the CEOs. Much more responsibility on climate change but especially on the question

of what kind of social contract shall we have with workers. There has been a lot of positive talk about this. We have to see what comes out of it.

But I do agree on that level. This has been a good Davos.

QUEST: Just before we let you go, I want to look at the results of the poll so far so that the 94% of people say that there's a complete - they

don't trust. The U.S. political leaders out of touch, 94% say yes.

GERGEN: Yes, they are.

QUEST: They shouldn't be because they're voted by the population.

GERGEN: Well, that's exactly right, but the good news out of this survey was that a lot of people think their employers are in touch and care about

them and that has been going up.

QUEST: We did that earlier and you're right, 84% of people were in favor of that. Good to see you sir.

GERGEN: Thank you, Richard. Good to see you.

QUEST: Love to see you at Davos. As always, safe journey home.

GERGEN: Take care. Take care. Thank you.


QUEST: Now to the markets. Stocks dipped after the Commerce Secretary said that the U.S. and China are miles and miles apart on a trade deal.

Nothing like taking the air out of the market. As you can see there, I am guessing we surged around about that 1:30 is when the comments were made.

However, strong earnings pushed up the indices so they came back up again.

And, join me at the earnings share case in New York by the magic of television. We are at the case. Remember the share case tracks the change

in a company's share price in the 24 hours after earnings release. It's the best gauge of what investors think about company results and its


Today it is all about the Airlines. American Airlines, Southwest, JetBlue all posted strong results and their shares are up 4%, 5%, 6% in some cases.

The whole is rallying. Southwest is warning the government shutdown has cost it between $10 million and $15 million this month.

Moving down the share case, Delta reported earnings last week and it also warned about the shutdown saying it has lost around $25 million last month.

So, Manu Raju is on Capitol Hill. We are trying to understand these votes and what's happening and which one and the first one has failed. Now we go

on to the second one, which is the difference between what?

MANU RAJU, SENIOR CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT, CNN: It's a significant difference. This one is just a short-term bill that would reopen the

government up until February 8th. This other one, in the past pushed by President Trump would have provided $5.7 billion for his border wall and

implement some changes on immigration policy and include funding to reopen the government for the rest of this fiscal year.

Now, that Trump plan just rejected on a 51-47 vote. That is nine short of the 60 that were needed to advance this package. So that is essentially

dead. Now, the Senate plan, Democratic plan to move forward to reopen the government for the next three weeks before the chamber right now expect

that also to go down. So the question is, what is next? What can they ultimately agree to?

I'm told at a meeting just moments ago, Vice President Mike Pence did not lay out a strategy going forward. So the White House itself has not made

it clear to the senators what they would ultimately support. So, the shutdown is just going to continue, Richard.

QUEST: Forgive maybe the naive question from somebody who doesn't follow this as closely as you. That proposal, though, with the $5.6 billion, if

that's what the President wanted and there is a Republican majority in the Senate, how come that one isn't rammed through?

RAJU: Well, because of the procedures in the Senate, it requires actually 60 votes to overcome procedural objections on the Senate floor and there

are 53 Republican senators in this new Congress.

So, that means they need seven Democrats to flip in order to advance the proposal out of the United States Senate and only one Democrat did cross

party lines and that's Joe Manchin of West Virginia.

So the math clearly wasn't there and in order to make a law, of course, it needs to pass the United States House, too, controlled by Democrats and

they won't even take up the plan if it's passed the United States Senate, so clearly, the Trump plan, not going anywhere, so now, they are going to

figure out what the next plan is that could eventually reopen the United States government -- Richard?

QUEST: Manu, thank you, thank you. Very important, we understand exactly because this story is going on and on and we need to understand actually

the legislative machinations.

After a positive start, European markets ended on a mixed note. There were losses in London and Zurich amid concerns about trade and growth. The

German Dax and the Paris CAC closed higher. It is continually astonishing that the FTSE does not fall further and faster when you get days like today

with so many warnings against a no-deal Brexit.

Staying in France and protesters in yellow vests have made their presence felt for two months. Now they're planning to fill candidates in the

forthcoming European Parliamentary elections. France's Economy Minister told me President Macron is in listening mode.


LE MAIRE: He has already made an important move to lessen the views of those people which are currently demonstrating. I think that now, the

right answer is the big debate, the dialogue among the French people to see what we want for the future. That is the key question.

QUEST: So this debate, this dialogue that he is engaged now as he goes around the country. There are critics who say, "Oh, it looks good." It's

paying lip service and he looks like he's listening, but what is he going to do?

LE MAIRE: That we will take into account all the proposals from the French people. Of course. That's the sense of the debate. There will be many

proposals about the public expenses, about taxation and about our institutions and, of course, we will take that into account because the

idea is really to invent the future of France.

QUEST: Do you think any of the magic - the fairy sparkle that came along with President Macron has gone away?


QUEST: That he's seen as slightly more imperial than he did when he came into office?

LE MAIRE: You know, politics is not a question of magic. It is a question of toughness. Decision. Willingness. I can assure you, Richard, that we

are full of willingness for France and we have a lot of decisions to take in that year.

QUEST: Choose a color.

LE MAIRE: Blue. French blue, of course.

QUEST: I think it's been various other blue, but don't worry about it. All right. You can sign on to somebody else or you can start a new one

here. The thing that you think is the most --

LE MAIRE: I think that my biggest concern is the rise of inequalities across the world.

QUEST: Really?

LE MAIRE: Yes, because I think that capitalism is not on the right track. And there are many people in France, but in many other countries that are

disappointed by the reserves of capitalism. We have to invent a new capitalism and as you know, Richard, we have the Presidency of the G-7.

You're invited in Paris if you want to participate to that G-7 and to make a lot of interviews and at the heart of the French G-7, there will be the

fight against inequalities to build a new capitalism.


QUEST: I think Bruno Le Maire just invited me to Paris for the G-7. I think we might very well be going. Russia is warning against any military

intervention in Venezuela. Moscow is taking a massive stake in the current Venezuelan regime. The CEO of Russia Direct Investment Fund joins me next.


[15:30:00] QUEST: So there's a lot more QUEST MEANS BUSINESS in just a moment. When the head of the World Trade Organization tells me he sees

optimism in the U.S.-China trade talks.

And I sit down with Matt Damon in his continued fight to bring safe water to the world. As you and I continue this evening, this is Cnn, and on this

network, the facts always come first. The U.S. Senate is voting right now in a Democratic proposal to end the government shutdown.

However, it's expected to fail because it does not have the support of enough Republicans or indeed the President Trump. Moments ago, a

Republican proposal failed because Democrats would not back it. Authorities have called off the search for the plane carrying football

player Emiliano Sala, saying the chances he survived are now too remote.

The plane vanished on Monday over the English Channel, searchers say they have found no trace of it. A new era officially begins today of Renault.

The French car maker named two veteran executives to replace Carlos Ghosn who is behind bars in Tokyo on charges of financial misconduct. Renault's

Chief Operating Officer Thierry Bollore becomes the CEO, while Michelin's boss Jean-Dominique Senard is named Renault's chairman.

Venezuela has declared leading mounting unrest on foreign powers lining up to take sides. It's creating concerns about oil. West Texas crude was up

more than 1 percent before coming back down. The Trump administration says it's ready to post new sanctions on Venezuelan oil if the situation

continues to deteriorate.

Venezuela's military leaders pledged allegiance to Nicholas Maduro earlier today, Maduro then said he's closing the U.S. Embassy, the U.S. and the

U.K. and others are backing the opposition that's attempting to unseat him. Speaking exclusively to Cnn, the Russian deputy Foreign Minister warned

against any military intervention by the Americans.


SERGEY RYABKOV, DEPUTY FOREIGN MINISTER, RUSSIA: We face now a scenario that may lead to further bloodshed in Venezuela.


QUEST: Russia has happily filled the void left by the United States in Venezuela. The Maduro regime's debts by some estimates come to as much as

$150 billion. Put it on the brink of bankruptcy for years. Russia keeps propping up the administration cash bailouts, cheap loans, arms for the

military, instead of direct repayment for all of this, Russia was taking huge interest in Venezuela's oil.

It is a regime change, the Kremlin's investments could be lost. Kirill Dmitriev is the chief executive of the Russian Direct Investment Fund, good

to see you.


QUEST: We do need to establish first, whether the fund, you have any investments in Venezuela or Venezuela oil.

DMITRIEV: Not necessarily. In China and France, but not in Venezuela.

QUEST: But Russia does have investments in Venezuela, and does have an interest in seeing Maduro stay in power.

DMITRIEV: Well, it does, but it has an interest in staying with the legitimate president in power. And I think it's very important to

understand that, you are sometimes like to change regimes and with concern about Russia intervention into U.S. election.

But how can you select a president in another country by Twitter. And I think when we see U.S. intervening in Venezuela, Russian official position

is to say, hold on a second, let Venezuelan people decide.

QUEST: They -- well, they did in an unfair vote in a rigged vote. But the point is Russia and the U.S. or the west or whatever you want to call it,

Russia and this side of the Atlantic seem to be loggerheads on every issue. There seems to be no meeting of minds at the moment between the two.

DMITRIEV: Well, and that needs to change. We believe that Russia and the U.S. needs to find a breach together as there is a business dialogue that

is supposed to be set up, and business needs to start talking because as long as Russia and U.S. don't see each other on any issues and don't come

to agreements, it's bad for the world. And it's important to have a good dialogue.

QUEST: It is, but I suppose the -- where would you -- I mean, so many banks, not yourself, but are sanctioned, so many individuals now are

sanctioned. The Russian economy is under western sanctions. Are you seeing and feeling an effect? Is it now really starting to hurt?

DMITRIEV: Well, not really. Russian economy adjusted to sanctions, not only this, we have built on lots of great partnerships. One of them is

with Saudi Arabia, you know, we were in bad relationship with Saudi Arabia four years ago, and we were able to build a positive relationship.

Which a lot of difficulties in Japan --

QUEST: Yes, but --

[15:35:00] DMITRIEV: But we keep on investing with Japan. So Russia has actually increased the number of countries, it's getting closer

relationships with.

QUEST: Do you think that Saudi Arabia has to do more to bring out information on what happened with Jamal Khashoggi before there can be

anything like normal business as usual relations?

DMITRIEV: Well, I totally disagree with this approach because we see a major transformation in Saudi Arabia, we see it really happening. I was

recently at Formula E in Saudi Arabia, and young people -- they're changing everything and there is a great period of change. And we need to

understand it and, of course, that was a horrible tragedy, but we need to understand --

QUEST: No, it wasn't -- with respect --

DMITRIEV: That was a horrible strategy --

QUEST: With respect, with respect, it was --

DMITRIEV: But there was a great transformation --

QUEST: No --

DMITRIEV: Also in Saudi Arabia.

QUEST: With respect, it wasn't a tragedy, it was a murder.

DMITRIEV: OK, it was a murder and a tragedy and a horrible thing, but reforms in Saudi Arabia are happening and we cannot turn a blind eye to


QUEST: Have a quick -- let's take you to the wall every -- sir, which color would you like? Red of course --

DMITRIEV: So the red, of course, of course --

QUEST: Good to see, and are you going to write in Russian?

DMITRIEV: I will do misunderstanding in Russian?

QUEST: Misunderstanding in Russian --

DMITRIEV: Because there's so much misunderstanding in the world that needs to change, and I do it in Russian and yes.

QUEST: It's a very long word for misunderstanding.


Good to see you, sir, no misunderstanding --

DMITRIEV: Thank you so much, Richard --

QUEST: As always --

DMITRIEV: No misunderstanding between us.

QUEST: No, never --

DMITRIEV: OK, thank you very much --

QUEST: Never --


QUEST: The question of who will lead the World Bank is on the lips of many here. Jim Yong Kim's surprise resignation earlier this month has set off a

race. Ngozi Okonjo-Iweala was one of the frontrunners in the last election in 2012.

She's been Managing Director at the World Bank and former Minister of Finance in Nigeria. I asked her if she's interested in the World Bank job.


NGOZI OKONJO-IWEALA, FORMER FINANCE MINISTER, NIGERIA: If the right person were to nominate and if the circumstances are right, and people feel I can

do the job, yes.

QUEST: So what do you think needs to happen at the World Bank because clearly, the last five years, particularly the last three years, the staff

unrest, the questions over the mission, what do you think needs to happen at the bank?

OKONJO-IWEALA: Well, I think the bank is still, you know, the premier development finance institution, and the world needs not only the bank, but

the multilaterals.

QUEST: Right --

OKONJO-IWEALA: And sure, a whole set of things. Let me just say that the mission of mobilizing finance, using the balance sheets to leverage the

private sector, so we can get additional resources for development. It's huge.

QUEST: Right --

OKONJO-IWEALA: You know, so we need stability, we need strong management in the bank. We need faster, quicker.


QUEST: Ngozi, by my reckoning, if the right person nominates, she could well become the next president of the World Bank. The U.S. and China are

facing a March 1st deadline in tariff talks, U.S. Commerce Secretary says the two sides are miles and miles apart. The head of the WTO tells me why

he's optimistic.


QUEST: The head of the World Trade Organization taking to concern the glass is half full approach when it comes to U.S.-China trade talks with

the March deadline approaching. Roberto Azevedo says the two sides can't find a way to avoid a full-blown trade war.


ROBERTO AZEVEDO, DIRECTOR-GENERAL, WORLD TRADE ORGANIZATION: I think conversations are ongoing, some positive statements and optimistic even

statements are coming out and that's helpful. So, yes, it's absolutely a scenario that we don't want to see in these kind of tensions.

But there is progress, I think, in the contact.

QUEST: Would you be hopeful, well, you're always hopeful I suppose, do you expect a deal to be done or do you think the truce will expire and as the

president said yesterday, the tariffs will increase?

AZEVEDO: I would hope. I have to go back to hope, that would not be the case. That they would find a way to accommodate their differences and move

on forward without having to raise tariffs because that's going to hurt everyone on those too.

QUEST: Well, you had a marginal victory of multilateralism with the USMCA which at least got negotiated even though it hasn't yet passed Congress.

But this is going to be the way of the future, isn't it? Sort of small multilateral deals rather than the big WTO deal.

AZEVEDO: I think they would both be happening. And it's always easier to do a smaller deal, bilateral, regional. In the past, it's always been like

this, you get those deals done, and then you get what works in those deals, you bring it to the WTO and you begin to get more people onboard.

QUEST: If you look at the free trade agreements that have been done or the trade agreements that have been done. So USMCA is locked up, you have got

the Asia deal. The -- I always forget what they renamed it to --


QUEST: TPP, the TPP --


QUEST: Minus --


Depends which way you express it for the new TPP.


QUEST: You've got Canada, you've got Japan, so, it's not all gloom and misery.

AZEVEDO: No, I think this, you know, liberalization is contagious as much as protectionism is contagious as well. So as long as you're liberalizing,

even if it is in a small scale, more limited bilateral process, it still contaminates and brings others --

QUEST: Protectionism --

AZEVEDO: Into the same --

QUEST: That's very brave of you. But you know as well as I do, protectionism is far more contagious once again -- go ahead --

AZEVEDO: They both are, but we're moving in the other direction now. So let's hope that, that is the trend.

QUEST: Choose your color.

AZEVEDO: My color -- blue. All right --

QUEST: Do your hard work on this side, sir.


QUEST: What you -- you can either sign on to somebody else's with a circle or you can write something yourself. Just here or here about what for you

is the biggest worry at the moment.

AZEVEDO: Biggest worry.

QUEST: Worry.

AZEVEDO: Worry --

QUEST: Some people say democracy, others have said talent, tech and social inclusion, pessimism, too much of it some people say.

AZEVEDO: No, I would say it is here. Lack of cooperation.


QUEST: There we are on the wall. And just to bring you up to date. The second bill has failed in the U.S. Senate. So both now have gone. Let's

wait and see what comes next. We'll be telling you about the pressure western governments are putting on Chinese tech company Huawei over

security concerns with its 5G equipment.

All that pressure isn't holding back smartphone sales. They sold 30 percent last year, the company is expected to slouch Samsung as the number

one in the world smartphone market by next year at the latest. Sir Rob Wainwright served as Europol's director for nine years, is now Senior Cyber

Partner at Deloitte. Good to see you sir Rob --

ROB WAINWRIGHT, FORMER EUROPOL DIRECTOR: How are you, Richard? Good to see you --

QUEST: And congratulations on the knighthood --

WAINWRIGHT: Thank you very much. Congratulations by the way on tenth anniversary --

QUEST: Ten years.

WAINWRIGHT: You know, I only did nine years at Europol, you are ten years and still going strong.

QUEST: But no knighthood, not yet.


QUEST: You drop enough hints, who knows. Listen --

WAINWRIGHT: Thank you --

QUEST: The Huawei could be the largest phone seller in the world. Should we be concerned about that?

[15:45:00] WAINWRIGHT: Well, there are people who are concerned about talking here about -- at Davos. I'm meeting industry leaders, there's far

more concern about more media problems, frankly, and how they can secure cyber security controls across their entire landscape when they have

hundreds of their factories, for example, hundreds of thousands of suppliers in their production chain. How do you get cyber security, the

common way across that?

QUEST: But what --

WAINWRIGHT: It's a real challenge.

QUEST: What's the fundamental fear with cyber security. I mean, is it the Sony type of very embarrassing material or is it, you know, the potential

of paralysis that we saw in the national health service in the U.K.?

WAINWRIGHT: Well, it's actually all of those. But what I saw from the criminal -- as I bring my experience from the law enforcement sector into a

company like Deloitte that is so well connected to many industries. What I'm seeing is that a criminal community, a criminal market, they're so

joined up now, bringing smart and smarter ways to attack us.

And on our side, we're stuck in our silos, we still are cooperating well enough with law enforcement across industries, making smarter use of our

own data.

QUEST: Why not? I mean, this is piece we've known about for a long -- for a few good years now. Why not?

WAINWRIGHT: Well, I think there's a right to digital transformation, of course, and getting a cyber security balance than that is difficult. But I

think there are smart solutions. Take the banking industry. I know from a criminal background -- the Europol background that I have, that you have

cyber crooks, forces, money launderers that are operating in the seamless way, and we stuck in our silos too in the banking sector.

That we have separate teams dealing with those risks, that they're not joined up, and I want to change that with the people that we work with now,

on with many banks and I think we'll do that over the next five years, and we'll drive down costs, we'll make it a much better place to do banking.

And you know what? We'll seize a lot more criminal money.

QUEST: Oh, no, that rich, you've got to appear rich. Choose a color.

WAINWRIGHT: I'm here for green.

QUEST: Green, nothing royal about green --

WAINWRIGHT: The word of the day, I can't -- I can't write in Russian.


WAINWRIGHT: I could write in Welch, but I won't do that.

QUEST: Oh, yes, write --

WAINWRIGHT: Silos, want to fix those silos, break them --

QUEST: Enough. Don't worry, I'll pick it up later when I'm cleaning your shoes, sir Rob.


Thank you very much. As we continue, still or sparkling, we've got more bottled water than we know what to do with. After the break, a reminder,

that's not the case everywhere. We'll hear from Matt Damon's charity providing access to life's most precious commodity. This is QUEST MEANS

BUSINESS, we're live in Davos. Where's that?


[15:50:00] QUEST: Here in Davos, there are mounds and mounds of snow that you could just simply melt for water to drink. We even go so far as to do

silly things. We actually put water in bottles which we then drink from.

Well, Davos wouldn't be Davos without a little Hollywood sparkle this year. And on the question of water, the actor Matt Damon is back to promote his

water charity, which has helped over 16 million people and counting. provide access to small case finance, the safe water and


Here's Matt and his co-founder Gary White who I spoke to.


MATT DAMON, ACTOR & PHILANTHROPIST: This is a way to get -- push more capital into this -- into this -- into this -- well, into Gary's innovation

which was what we call Water Credit. Which is basically taking Muhammad Yunus' idea as a microfinance and applying them to the water sector.

And as simple as it sounds, in retrospect, it was quite a bit of a thought leap for the microfinance institutions at the time because it wasn't an

income-generating loan, but it was an income-enhancing loan.

And that by connecting people to an existing utility, you were buying their time back. So they rather than have to go out and wait in line for water

with a jerry can, they could stay, working at their job because now they had a tap connected directly into their home.

QUEST: Are you making a difference? Is it in the sense that the size and scale --

DAMON: Right --

QUEST: Is it making a difference?

DAMON: Well, listen, if you look at everything in terms of that, then nobody is going to get out of bed --

QUEST: Right --

DAMON: In the morning --

QUEST: Right --

DAMON: But here, to give you an idea. Because we reached our first million people with these solutions in 2012. We're hitting a million,

over a million a quarter now. So, we're at 16 million people that we've reached. So if you ask me that question, I would say to 16 million people,

they would give you a definitive yes.

GARY WHITE, CHIEF EXECUTIVE OFFICER & CO-FOUNDER, WATER.ORG: Well, and what's better than -- is better than what's in second place, right? Because

we've tried this from a charity approach --

QUEST: Right.

WHITE: Right?


WHITE: Now, we have leverage from the capital markets, $1.1 billion that fund these loans. It would take us decades, if not centuries to raise that

much philanthropic capital. So are we there yet? No, but are we gaining on it? Absolutely.

QUEST: But you're the -- one of the few charity organizations, whatever you want to call it who is actually really got this idea going strong. I

mean, I cover a lot of this area. Not too many are talking in the same terms. Oh, yes, to be sure, the Bill Gates Foundation revolutionized --

WHITE: Yes --

QUEST: The way philanthropic work uses as results.

DAMON: Right.

QUEST: But this concept is still relatively new.

DAMON: Yes, and look, and it's -- he's very humble about it, but this -- it was a stroke of brilliance and it was a wonderful innovation and it's --

and it's -- and it's scalable. And that's -- and that's what's really exciting as you know, we go to Bank of America and they give us -- they

gave us all this stuff -- they gave us $5 million, zero interest, right?

That catalyzes other money coming in, so you build it into these tranches, and this financial product where different investors have different

expectations and you can meet them all, right? And so, anyway, it's an ongoing education for us. I mean, again, like I didn't think I'd be having

this conversation with you, you know, ten years ago.

QUEST: That makes two of us. Let me be very -- let me be clear.

DAMON: Well, I got into it the way most people -- you know, you start building wells.

QUEST: Yes --

DAMON: You know, we call direct impact --

WHITE: So your problem is you just like jump in.

DAMON: Right, and you just start working on it, and then as you learn about it and you know, the complexity of, if you find --

WHITE: Yes --

DAMON: Kind of a better way to make impact.

WHITE: You need to go and get those insights and then turn it into action, right? I mean, we're meeting women who are paying loan sharks 125 percent

interest, so they can get a toilet.

DAMON: Right --

WHITE: So you start having these insights and there's like there's got to be a better way.

QUEST: All right, the way forward is what? You've got your water equity. You've got -- what do you do for the next -- hopefully it won't be two

years before we meet again.

DAMON: I hope not --

QUEST: To discuss --

DAMON: I hope not.

QUEST: But what will you be telling me then?

DAMON: Well, the World Bank identified I think, it was 500 million people who could be reached with this model, right? And so that's a lot of work to

do. And so we're in -- you know, I mean, we've projected and we're well on target to hit for, 60 million people --

QUEST: Right --

DAMON: By 2023. And so we're just going to keep -- you know, as Bill Clinton said to us years ago, he looked at the model -- this is before we

reached a million people, and he goes, you know, this is going to work. He goes, just -- you run those numbers up. Keep running those numbers up, you

know, and he's right.

I mean, that's really what we've been doing and what we'll continue to do.

WHITE: Yes --

QUEST: I just have to take a moment. In Davos, Matt Damon doing an impersonation of --


Every time I think of this, a bottle of sparkling or a bottle of still that costs whatever, a bottle of (INAUDIBLE), it would cost whatever.

WHITE: Yes --

QUEST: How do you view these bottles of water when you know the true story of --

WHITE: I look --

QUEST: One bottle.

WHITE: I look pass them to tap water actually --

QUEST: Exactly --

WHITE: That's what I do, and that's the key to it. We have to make our tap water safer to drink for people around the world. So we don't -- these

are in glass, which is nice.

DAMON: Yes --

WHITE: Usually it's in plastic.

[15:55:00] DAMON: But also your relationship to water changes doing this work, when you know --

QUEST: Exactly --

DAMON: When you know what that -- what that first bottle of, you know, that first amount, that first liter of water a day means to somebody. You

know, it means -- it means that a girl isn't in school because she is off collecting water.

You know, and so when you're able to implement some of these solutions, and suddenly these kids get their lives back, they're suddenly instead of just

being in the death spiral of poverty, they're off, you know, dreaming about their futures and being able to live life --

QUEST: Yes --

DAMON: Up to their potential.

QUEST: Finally, are you still or a sparkling?



DAMON: It's a good answer, tap.

QUEST: It makes me feel like a --


Tap. Good to see you both.

DAMON: Great to see you, Richard, thank you --


WHITE: Well done, thanks.


QUEST: Tap water for both of us. For all of us. Last few minutes of trade on Wall Street, do need to update you on how they're going. Trade

and earnings are driving the day. Wilbur Ross and his comments about U.S. and China miles apart.

That took the air out of the market. But look at that, it came back nicely. I'm pretty much unchanged on the market of this level, just down

point-1 or tenth of a 1 percent with strong earnings. There will be a profitable moment in just a moment, and that will take us, of course, to

the closing bell.


QUEST: Tonight's profitable moment, she's known everywhere simply as Ngozi. Former finance minister of Nigeria, a former leader at the World

Bank. She lost out the last time to Jim Yong Kim who got the World Bank job against everybody else saying, it should have been Ngozi.

The Americans pushed him forward. Now, as she said tonight, exclusively on this program, if the right person nominates her and the circumstances are

right, yes, Ngozi will stand for presidency of the World Bank. That's good news for those in international finance.

Whether or not the Nigerian government will support her, they should, but whether or not they will because they come from a different political party

remains to be seen. Ultimately, though, the gauntlet has been thrown down. Who will the Americans put forward, will Ngozi get the job that she was

cheated out of many say last time round?

You heard it first on QUEST MEANS BUSINESS. Now, that is QUEST MEANS BUSINESS for tonight, I am Richard Quest in Davos. Whatever you're up to

in the hours ahead, I hope it's profitable.


The bell is ringing, the day is done.