Return to Transcripts main page

Quest Means Business

Sources Say Wall Street Friends Pressuring Trump To Open Economy; JPMorgan Says U.S. GDP TO Shrink 40 Percent Annualized In Q2; E.U. Finance Minister Agree On $550 Billion Stimulus; New York Gov. Cuomo "Cautiously Optimistic" Curve is Flattening; British P.M. Able to Take "Short Walks" In Hospital; Apple and Google Team Up for Virus Contact Tracing. Aired 3-4p ET

Aired April 10, 2020 - 15:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[15:00:00]

DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: If anybody tells me that, too, so we appreciate it. Please.

QUESTION: Thank you. So, Google and Apple have announced that they are jointly enabling contact tracing on their mobile phone operating systems.

And I was wondering if this is something that you would consider or maybe - -

TRUMP: ... freedoms problems and a lot of other things.

This is something -- we're going to look at it, certainly. And we know they have done that. And it is highly -- it is very new, new technology.

It is very interesting. But a lot of people worry about it in terms of a person's freedom. We are going to take a look at that, a very strong look

at it. We will let you know pretty soon.

QUESTION: And I have another question.

TRUMP: Brand-new. Yes, please.

QUESTION: So, can you explain why it is appropriate in the middle of a pandemic to be talking about cutting or eliminating funding for the World

Health Organization?

TRUMP: Well, we're going to talk about the W.H.O. next week in great detail. I didn't want to do it today, Good Friday. I didn't want to do it

before Easter. I also didn't want to do it before we have all of the facts. But over the years, many years, we have been paying them from 300 to 500,

and even more, million dollars a year.

China has been paying them less than $40 over the years. So, we're paying them more than 10 times more than China, and they are very, very China-

centric, as I said, during the weeks, China-centric.

China always seems to get the better of the argument, and I don't like that. I really don't like that. I don't think that's appropriate. I don't

think it's fair to the American people.

And you know, I tell that to President Xi, I tell that to Dr. Tedros. I spoke to him one time. I think he's a very nice man. I liked him. But we're

going to be talking about that next week in great detail. We're looking at it very, very closely. We want to make sure your money is properly spent.

But, again, why is the United States paying $500 million a year. It's a lot. And why is -- okay, that's a lot. And why is China paying last year,

this year $42 million, but generally under 40. So it's in the 30s.

So we're at 504, 452, 400, 401, different amounts different years. And they're at 40, 38, 36, 35, 32, 31.

No, no, but you have to ask yourself that question. And then the answer always turns out to be in China's favor.

Well, I have the same thing with the World Trade. Isn't that interesting? World Trade -- so we have World Health and we have World Trade. So we have

the World Trade Organization. And until I came along, we were losing cases, so many cases, it was ridiculous. We were always losing these cases, I

mean, almost every case.

And now we're winning cases. We just won $7 billion, because they know I'm not going to put up with it. China has been unbelievably taking advantage

of us and other countries.

For instance, they are considered a developing nation. I said, well, then make us a developing nation, too. They get big advantages because they're

developing nation.

India, a developing nation. The United States is the big developed nation.

Well, we have plenty of development to do, okay? And now we're winning cases, because they know that if we're not treated fairly, I'm going to

pull out. Now, you have never heard this before, because nobody ever talked about the World Trade Organization, but the World Trade Organization has

treated us very unfairly.

But they know I'm not going to put up with it, because all of these countries are taking advantage of the United States. Now, in the courts, in

the court system, we're not approving new judges over the last year. We're not going to approve it.

And Bob Lighthizer is working very hard on that. But we had always a minority position, meaning numbers of judges. So we have a minority number

of judges. I said, how do you win with a minority the number of judges?

But, all of a sudden, we're winning. And the reason we're winning is they know, if they don't treat us properly -- and we won $7 billion just this --

very recently, and the money is pouring in.

And we have won other cases too. We have won a lot of cases. But you know from covering it, I know you know that the United States was taken

advantage of by the World Trade Organization.

And, by the way, speaking of China, if you look at the history of China, it was only since they went into the World Trade Organization that they became

a rocket ship with their economy. They were flatlined for years and years, frankly, for many, many decades.

And it was only when they came into the World Trade Organization that they became a rocket ship, because they took advantage of all those. I'm not

even blaming them. I'm saying, how stupid were the people that stood here and allowed it to happen? But we don't allow that to happen.

And if they don't treat us fairly, we will leave. But now we're starting to win cases.

[15:05:00]

TRUMP: How about somebody new for change? Come on, go ahead.

QUESTION: Hi, Mr. President. As many schools and school districts are closing across the country --

RICHARD QUEST, CNN BUSINESS ANCHOR: So, we leave President Trump and the daily briefing for the moment. We will obviously keep monitoring in case

there's some new development or something else has said.

Let me update you on what the President said. He said, "The White House now sees that the curve is leveling." Meanwhile, Wall Street leaders are

pressuring Donald Trump on what to do next in terms of the economy, asking him to reopen the economy, whether that of course is sooner rather than

later.

But the President said in answer to Jim Acosta's question that if he was specifically -- if they said do not open the economy in May, he would

listen, he said. Now he said this contradicts advice from health experts who are saying now is not the time to relax. Wall Street is being

contradicted by the health experts and the great milestone, the global recorded number of death has past 100,000.

Donald Trump held his Good Friday press conference, and he said, he once promised the economy would restart at Easter; now, he says Wall Street is

all pent up because he is keeping it closed.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: In four days, we had the biggest market increase -- stock market increase that we've had in 50 years. That tells you that there's a pent up

demand. That tells you they want to get back. There's something good going to happen. I really believe that there's something very good going to

happen.

We have to get back.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

QUEST: Sarah Westwood is with me. The President was in a relaxed mood today, the way he was speaking, what did you make of it? Nothing new. No

ground broken. I don't think particularly. What did you spot?

SARAH WESTWOOD, CNN WHITE HOUSE REPORTER: That's right, Richard. I thought it was interesting that President Trump was harping on the fact that right

now, the newest data is indicating to the experts that perhaps there could be fewer deaths than what the models were predicting as recently as a week

ago that perhaps 100,000 Americans could die from COVID-19, now that could be less than 60,000.

And that's sort of a sign that President Trump is reflecting on ways to reopen the economy. He is focusing on the lower death toll, perhaps

suggesting that the work of Americans staying home has been done and that the economy can reopen in May. That's certainly what a cadre of aides

within the White House is pushing him to do.

But then, you know, just moments later, you saw Deborah Birx -- Dr. Birx go up to that podium and say that we have not yet reached the peak of the

curve. Dr. Anthony Fauci, the nation's top Infectious Disease expert saying that just because we are starting to see some green shoots here in terms of

hospitalizations and deaths, it doesn't mean that the guidelines should be loosened anywhere.

And so President Trump sort of bringing up the fact that the models are starting to show some signs of hope, perhaps laying the groundwork for that

reopening in May -- Richard.

QUEST: It's an impossible decision though, isn't it, he does face. We'll be talking about it a little bit with Mohamed El-Erian. He is getting a lot of

pressure from those states and from those on Wall Street, who do believe it's time to reopen?

WESTWOOD: That's right, Richard. He sort of saw that in the President's answer to our colleague, Jim Acosta, when he said, look, I'm looking at

both sides of the equation here. I'm looking at the economic side.

Obviously, there's a whole group of aides on the Coronavirus Taskforce who want there to be an increased focus because of the enormous economic

fallout that we've seen from the country being shut down.

And you also have his experts here who are warning that although the curve is starting to be flattened, if the country were to reopen at the end of

the month, just a couple of weeks, three weeks away from now, then we could see all of that work regress.

And so the President has been facing that tension for a long time now. He gave in to the health experts, like you mentioned at the top of this, the

President had at one point wanted to see the country open by Easter. That's three days from now, obviously, that's not going to happen.

So the President could, the next time he is at a decision point, which is just a few weeks away side with the other group of aides who want him to

now consider the economic fallout just as seriously as the health issue here.

QUEST: Sarah, thank you. Sarah Westwood who is -- have a good weekend. Have a good Easter weekend and get some rest, if it is possible at the moment.

Now, new JPMorgan forecasts which I've got for you, which makes very disappointing reading -- depressing reading, arguably. It starts with the

unemployment question. It says -- it starts with an unemployment earthquake, and it extrapolates the numbers that we know from jobless

claims and moves them into the real economy.

So it says GDP in Q2 will fall an annualized is 40 percent. Now of course, it is not going to fall 40 percent in a year. That is a second quarter

annualized. We need to emphasize because normally we wouldn't, but that's how it has to be.

[15:10:05]

QUEST: Unemployment will hit 20 percent and it says if you take for the year overall, GDP for the year, this year is now down seven percent and

that's assuming a recovery in June.

Mohamed El-Erian is the Chief Economic Adviser at Allianz. Mohamed is with me. Now, you've obviously seen these numbers. Do they seem about right to

you, bearing in mind, Mohamed, what we saw on the jobless claims, that sort of scant economic data that we have, but we can now read into more

fundamental terms.

MOHAMED EL-ERIAN, CHIEF ECONOMIC ADVISER, ALLIANZ: Richard, look it's very difficult to be precise in this environment. It is an unprecedented

environment, and a lot depends, like you just discussed on the medical issues.

But I think the message of this report is consistent with what I believe which is this is a massive hit to the economy, much greater than during the

Great Recession, unemployment is already probably at 14 to 15 percent, and I feel we're going to head over 20 percent, which is double the rate of

what we saw at the worse of the Great Recession.

QUEST: Right. So with that in mind, Donald Trump, by the way, at the White House has just announced that he's going to start a commission -- another

taskforce looking at opening the U.S. economy.

You wrote an extremely good piece in which you talk about the difficulties of reopening, the difficulties between say, the social experts, the health

experts, and the economic experts.

The Faustian argument, in many ways about when you can open the economy. What do you make of the latest thinking?

EL-ERIAN: So I think the latest thinking on Wall Street is way too optimistic, even maybe naively optimistic, and it has three components.

One, we -- we open the economy quickly. Two, it is going to be like flicking a switch, it's going to happen overnight instantaneously and the

economy goes back to close where we've been and three, that there will be no scars over the longer term.

I worry that all three of these assumptions are going to prove way too optimistic. It is going to take longer. It is going to be messier. It's

going to be sequential, and we're going to live with the scars of this crisis for a while.

QUEST: So this is all to do with the permanent loss of production, not just the amount that we lose whilst we've gone, because as I believe your belief

and theory, there will be a permanent loss. We will not return to the same level of production or the economic growth, never mind on an annualized or

seasonal basis, but overall, there will be less economic cake. Is that your theory?

EL-ERIAN: My theory is A, we're not going to catch up what we've lost and B, what I worry about a lot, and I think that hasn't been discussed yet is

we are going to be more indebted, less productive and more de-globalized once we come out of this crisis.

The post crisis landscape is going to challenge us both economically and financially.

QUEST: Now you're an economic adviser, not necessarily a swimmer, up went the stocks, down went the dollar, but why our markets -- I was going to say

ebullient, why have they bounced back? I know they're very sharp lows, but the bounce back and they don't seem as so concerned at the moment about

this longer term malaise of which you now speak.

EL-ERIAN: Yes, and three reasons why. One is, as I say, there's a bit of over optimism, naivety if you like. Two, is these are markets that have

been --

QUEST: That's unfortunate. We can see the Dow Jones. We can see the S&P. We lost Mohamed El-Erian, but we got the gist of what he was saying. So we

will leave it there. Always good to have him. My apologies.

Don't worry, he will be back next week where we'll be able to hear more of his economic and crucial global strategic insight. We should take a break.

The Europeans have managed to put together a deal. The Eurogroup hails it as a great victory. Well, we might arguably say what was that victory when

it took so long to get? In a moment.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[15:17:18]

QUEST: Welcome back to QUEST MEANS BUSINESS. So questions over who is going to pay for the European Stimulus Package when it's done at a European level

by the E.C.B. of course, which has already put trillions into the economy, and now by the Euro Group itself.

European Finance Ministers have agreed on a $550 billion stimulus package after weeks of infighting. Key issues remain to be unresolved, and Italy is

threatening not to sign it.

So what's in the agreement? Well, $110 billion in unemployment benefits. More than $400 billion in loans and credits that's split between businesses

and governments who pledged to work on a Recovery Fund, which is still to come.

Missing, of course is how to pay for it. Germany, Austria, the Netherlands are rejecting coronabonds. Italy says, it will continue to fight for them.

So I've got a statement here put out by Mario Centeno. He is the head of the - President of the Eurogroup as he said in his video conference of

today, he calls it bold and ambitious, and says the Europeans are acting more decisively unlike during the financial crisis, which he admits was too

little too late.

But arguably, the amount that they've now done is also too late. Mario is with me now on the line from Lisbon. So I applaud the fact that you got the

deal, sir. But it was not an easy deal to get, and arguably, you've papered over many really fundamental differences.

MARIO CENTENO, PRESIDENT, EUROGROUP: Hello, well, it was not an easy deal to get, but the good news are that we got it. So we need now to be focused

on implementing gate and taking benefit of these deal.

We have been quite rapid, Richard. We thought 10 days ago and this deal was on the making and we have already closed it. So it's not only for European

standards, but worldwide.

We have been observing countries and reacting to this crisis and Europe is not lagging behind. We have now in the count of trillions to understand the

massive, massive support for our economies and workers that we have been deciding and implementing in Europe.

And these goes from the national level to the union level, all institutions, the European Commission and the European Investment Bank, the

European Stability Mechanism, the European Central Bank all have been acting on this.

[15:20:13]

QUEST: But what about the fact that you can't agree on what would probably be the most powerful weapon, which is the mutualization of debt, the euro

bond, the coronabond? Do you see any opportunity that countries like the Netherlands, like Germany will ever sign up to something like that?

CENTENO: This is a debate that has just started. We are preparing a recovery plan. Within these recovery plan, the next European budget is an

important instrument and the recovery fund will be another instrument.

We have to now deal with the weighted financing, and we are now starting the debate. The European Council will meet in a couple of weeks; time, more

guidance on that will be needed, and this is a very important debate.

My sense, given the overwhelming support to these package that we that we decided yesterday is that we will need a very clear debate facing the

emergency.

And well, let's see, I am not curtailing anything at this moment in time. This is my role as President of the Euro Group, and the debate will be very

open and frank.

QUEST: You'd agree that the European structures are not the best form to which to have to put together these vast plans the ESM, the lending under

the pandemic support, and so forth. But do you believe you can move quickly enough to get real money from a European Center through national

transmission mechanisms?

I don't want to bog our interview down in wordy jargon, but the trick here is getting this money into the hands of businesses before they go bust.

CENTENO: Well, you know, automatic stabilizers are very powerful on Europe. We have massive amounts of money flowing into firms and workers already.

This comes in kurzarbeit in Germany, (INAUDIBLE) in France, all other countries have similar mechanisms.

So Europe has its own line of defenses in times of crisis. You know historically employment fluctuates much less in Europe than in the U.S.

This is how economies adapt to these crisis. And I think we will see the same thing this time again.

And if you at the time that the E.C.B. took to respond was not different from the Fed, the time that our economies are responding, they are not

different from those in the U.S.

I think -- I think this time, Europe is playing very hard in this crisis, and everyone understood very well the emergency that we are facing. These

will take a big chunk of our GDP for 2020. And we need to work a lot to recover it because we need to recover the economy.

QUEST: Mario Centeno, good to see you, sir. Thank you. Thank you for taking the time to talk to us today, now --

CENTENO: Thank you.

QUEST: Political critics, of course called the deal a variety of, but usually, a Euro fudge seems to be the one that is often most used. The

former Greek Finance Minister Yanis Varoufakis is more direct. "The Eurogroup's underlying message to a large majority of Italians, Spaniards,

Greeks, et cetera, we shall help you get up now. But as you begin to rise, expect a wallop."

Yanis is with me. He joins me now from Greece. The two aspects of this deal, Yanis, there's the first bit that they were just talking about that

the Eurogroup President was talking about various structures, the use of the ESM, the various help for small businesses, and then you've got the

longer term repair. That's where the eurobonds, the coronabonds comes in, isn't it?

YANIS VAROUFAKIS, FORMER GREEK FINANCE MINISTER: Yes, indeed, except that they were put to bed forever yesterday with the Europe decision, which by

not making a decision on it effectively missed the greatest and I think last opportunity we had in the Eurozone, to have eurobonds to have the

equivalent of U.S. Treasury bills.

[15:25:04]

QUEST: In which case -- when -- I mean, Angela Merkel said she's not in favor of it. We all know where the government's stand on it.

The fact they've had to revisit it and still not go along with it, they're not going to do it. What is the downside of that, in your view, bearing in

mind, Yanis these very sizable sums that they are already committing?

VAROUFAKIS: Well, are they sizable? They talked about 500 billion, of which only a pitiful amount, Richard, 27.7 -- shy of 28 billion, which is 0.22

percent of the Eurozone's GDP is a direct fiscal injection. The rest is credit lines, the rest is loans.

Now, if Italy daily draws upon those loans over the next year, let's say, you know, 100 billion euros worth of loans that is added to the Italian

national debt at a time when, you know, GDP collapses due to the lockdown. This time next year, GDP is going -- debt to GDP is going to be around 200

percent.

The budget deficit is going to be a whopping 18 percent minus and Brussels will go to Italy and say, well, now you have to consolidate. So while Italy

is on the road to recovery from their loans, there's going to be a gigantic austerity hit, equivalent to what hit Greece in 2011. How good is this?

QUEST: So is it your point and I understand -- let's understand in this answer, it's a health crisis first, and we need to spend what needs to be

spent. But thereafter, are you saying that the northern countries should mutuality bear the costs with the Italians as well?

VAROUFAKIS: Absolutely, Richard, and it's not a question of philanthropy, or even solidarity. The Netherlands and Germany benefit enormously from an

exchange rate of the euro, which is low because you've got deficit countries like Italy, Greece and Spain in them.

Now, at the very same time, to the extent that they benefit enormously from that, and from the negative interest rates that have been eating into the

debt of both the Netherlands and Germany, those are the benefits for the Netherlands and Germany.

If they want to keep those benefits, they will have to keep it early in the Euro and the only way to do that is by neutralizing debt.

QUEST: And, of course, what the Europeans are trying to do, the E.C.B. to a certain extent and the E.C., they're trying to do the spread across that

the United States can do through a Federal government and a single Central Bank. It doesn't work with subsidiarity and sovereign governments in the

E.U.

Finally, Yanis, do you fear Greece Mark 2 writ much large over more countries in Europe?

VAROUFAKIS: I do. And Greece Mark 2 already is Italy. Europe is on the verge of losing Italy, the hearts and minds of Italians through a series of

errors, a comedy of errors, you know, banning the export of medical material from Germany at the height of the Northern Italian pandemic,

insisting now that there should be conditionalities and refusing deputization in a country where you have Matteo Salvini and the league, The

Liga are on the rise and rise.

This is effectively creating the circumstances for not Greece Mark 2, but something much worse because the majority of the Greeks never wanted to

leave the Euro. I believe that the Italians will want to.

QUEST: Yanis, before I leave you, I just want to make sure you're okay. Your family's all right?

VAROUFAKIS: Yes, we're fine. We're very privileged because, you know, we are isolated in a beautiful house. But there is an army of people out there

working so that people like me can be privileged, working the supermarkets and garbage collection.

And I'm afraid that they are being impoverished and they are not being looked after.

QUEST: All right. Good to have you with us. Keep well, and thank you as always for taking time to talk to us on QUEST MEANS BUSINESS.

VAROUFAKIS: Thank you.

QUEST: So we've looked at the big crisis in terms of Europe and their inability.

Now, oil. You heard the President talk a lot about oil in the press conference, we need to understand the significance of the OPEC, Russia and

why the deal and this weird business with Mexico promising to reimburse the United States. It's after the break.

[15:30:04]

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

QUEST: Hello, I'm Richard Quest, there's more QUEST MEANS BUSINESS in just a moment. We're going to be in Spain. Now, the other country's embarking on

a major experiment with something close to the universal basic income. We've talked about this on the -- on the program, but now they're actually

giving it a try where it's going to work and to taunt in the Saudi oil with Russia.

That creates all sorts of interesting permutations. We'll talk about that in just a moment. First, though, this is CNN. And on this network, the

facts always come first.

New York State has now recorded more coronavirus cases than any country outside the U.S. The numbers there, they're may be improving. The governor,

Andrew Cuomo, says hospitalizations and ICU admissions are trending down. Now, Cuomo says he is cautiously optimistic about the three-day average.

Downing Street says Boris Johnson is now taking short walks inside the London hospital. He left intensive care on Thursday. The Prime Minister's

Office says Johnson is in very good spirits and just beginning his recovery.

Apple and Google say they're teaming up to help authorities trapped coronavirus exposure. The two companies are building contact tracing into

their phones' software, they say will respect user privacy.

Now, Donald Trump says here and Mexico have reached an agreement over oil production, and he'll help Mexico along by cutting oil production. Now,

OPEC and Russia have reached a deal. It's an historic agreement, but he did not specify what it would look like. The president or the U.S. president

says that Mexico will reimburse the U.S. at some point.

[15:35:05]

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

The United States in discussions last night with Mexico, Saudi Arabia, Russia and in dealing with OPEC nations. We are trying to get Mexico as the

expression goes, over the barrel.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

QUEST: G20 ministers are discussing the biggest cuts ever made to oil exports. And what that's likely to mean. Saudi Arabia and Russia have

agreed curves. That's the first bit and that's obviously the most significant because they're the ones who are doing the most arguing. Mexico

refused at first to join in, then agreed. U.S.-Canadian outputs expected to fall, and trade is warning of single digit prices without a deal.

John Defterios is in Abu Dhabi. John, before we get to Saudis, and Russia, what is this business with the U.S. and Mexico that Mexico is going to

reimburse the U.S.? Explain.

JOHN DEFTERIOS, CNN BUSINESS EMERGING MARKETS EDITOR: Well, reimbursement, I don't think is the right word from Donald Trump there, to be frank,

Richard. What we we're talking about here is that Mexico was asked upon by the OPEC plus to cut 400,000 barrels a day, that was brought down to

350,000. Mexico only agreed to cut 100,000. The President of Mexico said that Donald Trump will make up the difference. Now, it's not defined how

he'll make up the difference.

But I think what this is telling us though, Richard, is that Donald Trump, Vladimir Putin, the Crown Prince of Saudi Arabia, really are trying to

restore confidence in the oil market. That's not easy to do. Because demand is dropping in the month of April by up to a third right now. Where we're

looking at 30 million barrels. And the language has changed, Richard, in the last 24 hours.

The U.S. Energy Secretary is saying now the natural drop in demand for the United States will mean that production will drop two to three million

barrels a day. We heard from Canada. We heard from Norway. We heard from the Brazilians. All suggested they want to help this common cause. So, what

is firm here now, and a source told me in the last 30 minutes, as the G20 broke up, we have to take advantage of the fact that Mexico and the U.S.

have a solution.

So, they need to get Mexico back into that OPEC plus agreement and get this language nailed down before the markets open up on Monday. I don't think

the markets are going to be that forgiving of Mexico sitting on the sidelines saying, well, we agreed with the United States, but we're

actually not part of this agreement. The market will be very punishing if that's the case.

QUEST: But since the US is a market-driven market, how can the U.S. make any promises in terms of cutting production? Yes, it can prove de facto

cuts in production as a result of an economic fallout, but it can't offer up actually took up production, because that could come on again, the

moment the price stabilizes or rises.

DEFTERIOS: Yes, we've had this debate, Richard, and you're actually correct. For those who are looking for the detail that we've got from the

OPEC plus, 10 million barrels a day, cutting for the first two months and then 8 million in the second half of the year, you're going to be left for

wanting more from the G20. They couldn't do it because of antitrust concerns.

So, the U.S. is saying that's going to be a natural correction of 2 to 3 million barrels. I saw that Dmitry Peskov, the spokesman for Vladimir Putin

was suggesting today. They realized the conditions the United States, they're not going to push that hard to get a concrete agreement. Again, the

language is changing because the major powers want something to happen.

And the final point here, Richard, I did the math on the cuts here by the OPEC Plus, if you go two months, at 10 million barrels a day and six months

at 8 million barrels a day, it eats up 2 billion barrels of the excess supplies that were going to be on the market. So, by the fourth quarter of

this year, they could have rebalanced if they stick to this agreement.

That's why you see Putin, Trump and Mohammed bin Salman, pushing so aggressively to get this done. I would almost say with Saudi Arabia as the

G20 chairman, this year, this was almost the icing on the cake after the nine hours of laborious debate to get Mexico on board yesterday. And

finally, it took Trump to push them over the line, if you will.

QUEST: John Defterios, who is in Abu Dhabi, we'll be watching closely to see if that deal sticks. We'll try and have some rest over the weekend. As

we continue, Melinda Gates has been warning that however bad things are for the rest of the world, for Sub-Saharan Africa, the coronavirus pandemic

promises to be absolutely devastating, hitting those hardest who can least afford it, in the most brutal of ways. Melinda Gates reminds the world that

they cannot forget. She was talking to Poppy Harlow.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

[15:40:01]

MELINDA GATES, CO-FOUNDED THE BILL & MELINDA GATES FOUNDATION: When I saw what China had to do to isolate such an enormous part of their population,

my first thought was Africa. How in the world are they going to deal with this? I've been in townships all over Africa, in slums, when we talk about

in our country, physical distancing, and then hand washing. If you live in a slum, you can't physical distance, you have to go out and get your meal.

You don't have clean water to wash your hands.

And so, as soon as I saw that, and we know from the foundation's work, how quickly disease spreads, I thought, oh, my gosh, we have a crisis on our

hands that we aren't even talking about yet in the United States, and what's going to happen to the rest of the world.

POPPY HARLOW, CNN ANCHOR: That's how much worse it's going to be in the developing world.

GATES: It's going to be horrible in the developing world. And part of the reason you're seeing the case numbers still don't look very bad. It's

because they don't have access to very many tests. So, you know, look at Ecuador, look at what's going on in Ecuador. They're putting bodies out on

the street. You're going to see that in countries in Africa.

HARLOW: You think that this pandemic is just actually going to set us back in terms of gender disparity. That it will disproportionately fall on

women? What do you mean?

GATES: Here's what I know, is that 70 percent of the healthcare workers around the world are women. Women do more than two times the unpaid labor

in their homes. So, they're caring for people in the health system, and they're caring for people at home. And at the same time, we have this

disparity that we're not collecting what we call disaggregated data. What that means is, we're not differently differentiating data that comes in

about men and women.

HARLOW: I wonder what keeps you up at night right now?

GATES: What keeps me up at night are the vulnerable populations. You know, what keeps me up at night is in the U.S., the kids who are falling behind

because they don't have access to broadband or to a computer. So, they're not getting to continue their learning. What keeps me up at night are the

vulnerable populations who I know in Africa, I've met some of them. I can't imagine being a parent in those circumstances. And those are the things

that keep me up at night.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

QUEST: Melinda Gates. When we come back in just a moment, because about Spain, they're trying what is de facto the universal income. It's a new way

but it's a desperate measure to try and put money into the hands of the pockets of those who need it during the crisis.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[15:45:00]

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

QUEST: Spain is working to introduce what is called a minimum vital income program. It's been introduced by the government to help those most in need.

And according to the second Deputy Prime Minister, it's essential and fundamental to help families that are in desperate situations. It's a

bridge plan until a full program can be implemented.

Scott McLean is in Madrid. Sounds very much like a universal income plan of one description or another. And there's nothing wrong with that if that's

what it is. But is that what it is?

SCOTT MCLEAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes, so it's not a universal basic income in the way that we would understand it in North America, the way that

Andrew Yang had campaigned on this idea when he was a candidate for the Democratic nomination. This is a much, much, much more scaled down version,

they're calling it a minimum vital income, which would basically ensure that anyone who is not already covered by wage subsidies or unemployment

insurance, is covered by this.

So, we would give people 500 euros a month if you make less than 200 as an individual or up to 900 as a -- as a household to make sure that everybody

has something if you're not covered by unemployment, or if you're not covered by these wage subsidies, which a lot of people are on right now,

considering with the coronavirus, employers are allowed to lay people off temporarily, and the government will pay 70 percent of their wage.

Now, the Spanish Prime Minister Pedro Sanchez, he's in a coalition government with the far-left Podemos Party and they agreed to support his

government on the condition that it supported things like policies like this, but there are plenty of questions, Richard, about whether Spain could

really afford it. It's already one of the most indebted countries in all of Europe, and it had an unemployment rate of 13 percent even before the

coronavirus came along.

QUEST: But Scott, how much of this plan would have been in the works anyway? And how much has been rushed through because of the crisis?

MCLEAN: That's a good question. So, this was something that was on the legislative agenda even before the corona virus came along, but they are

trying to hurry this up, the plan right now, the Podemos, the far-left party is proposing, is to implement this for the next three months with an

eye toward making it a permanent fixture even after the coronavirus crisis is over.

QUEST: Scott McLean, who is in Madrid. Scott, thank you. Now, earlier in the program with (INAUDIBLE) I was talking about how to restart the economy

and the dangers and difficulties that it's faced. Some are already trying exactly that or at least beginning to flirt with the ideas that it's time

to start even ever so small. Yes, but what are the risks? Here's CNN's Fred Pleitgen.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

FRED PLEITGEN, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Qasim Khan's restaurant in central Copenhagen is still taking orders for delivery, while

the country has been ordered to stay at home. He's hoping for better days ahead as the crisis drags on. But --

QASIM KHAN, RESTAURANT OWNER: I think it's a bit too soon to talk about reopening, even though it would be really good for us, I just think it's

going to extend the whole -- the whole period of the sickness or the virus.

PLEITGEN: Khan is referring to a decision by the Danish government to begin lifting restrictions and easing out of the current measures. The government

plans to reopen daycare centers and first through fifth grade by early next week. The prime minister says the decision is based on the fact that the

number of those infected has been stable for a while. More than 200 people died from the virus in Denmark thus far. It was one of the first European

countries to restrict travel.

In Norway, the government says kindergarteners will begin returning to school the week of April 20th. And those in first through fifth grade will

go back a week later.

ERNA SOLBERG, PRIME MINISTER, NORWAY: What we see now in Norway is, of course, that we have managed to get the reproduction number down below one.

That means that everyone who has become ill is not infecting more than one person. It's been infecting more or less than one person. And that means

that we are feeling that we are in control of the development.

PLEITGEN: In both Norway and Denmark, authorities are cautioning that the crisis is not over. In fact, other social distancing restrictions remain in

place. Meanwhile, the Czech Republic is allowing some shops to reopen this week, and some travel restrictions will be lifted next week.

Authorities have also stepped up contact tracing to further stem the spread of the disease, hoping that would lead to the lifting of more restrictions.

And the Austrian government has also announced plans to begin easing restrictions as of next week.

[15:50:11]

SEBASTIAN KURZ, CHANCELLOR, AUSTRIAN (through interpreter): So, Tuesday, after Easter, small businesses up to a size of 400 meters as well as DIY

stores, can open again.

PLEITGEN: The government says shop owners are still required to observe very strict safety measures such as allowing only a few people in and

insisting that every shopper wears a mask. Masks can now be bought from vending machines, including this machine at an underground train station in

Vienna. On the streets, people cautiously welcome the government's decision to begin a gradual return to normality.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE (through interpreter): The light at the end of the tunnel sounds good to me.

PLEITGEN: Here in Germany, there's also been talk of a gradual return to normality. Chancellor Angela Merkel says Germany will evaluate the

situation after the Easter break. Fred Pleitgen, CNN, Berlin.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

QUEST: And when we come back, we'll talk to some of the people putting a face to the businesses, the voices of the crisis, that we brought you. The

people who are out of business for the time being.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

Throughout history, humankind has come together to prevail in our darkest moments. This is a moment for pretty much the opposite. For hiding, laying

low, saving humankind by really, really not getting married. Every generation has its moment or individual sacrifice makes way for the good of

those who come after this one.

PLEITGEN: Over the last couple of weeks, we've introduced you to the business owners who are struggling. They are the voices of the crisis.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

TERESA JACOBSON, OWNER, AZALEA INN AND VILLAS: In Georgia, we're a shelter in place. So, there's nothing. So, I went from a banner year to a zero

year, in weeks.

VIVIAN KLEYNHANS, CEO & FOUNDER, SEVEN SISTERS WINES: There is absolutely nothing going on. It is so scary. I'm not sure where this is going to end.

I'm telling you, it's distorting. We are -- we are down and out. We don't know what to do.

LIBBY WILSON, DIRECTOR, OAKWOOD NURSERIES: I think it was Napoleon that said that Britain is a nation of shopkeepers. And we are, we're all

thousands, tens of thousands of small businesses up and down the country. And it's us that are going to struggle.

DANNY MACKLIN, CEO, LEYTON ORIENT F.C.: We've got an awful lot of people in there that that will be -- they are praying that we can get back to

football in a safe environment as soon as possible.

QUEST: What do you see as your duty and your responsibility to your staff, to your colleagues, or those who work for you?

ADAM NORWEST, OWNER, BARK ENTERTAINMENT: I mean, I kind of see myself as their parent, also. I think it's my responsibility to make sure they're OK.

DREW NIEPORENT, OWNER, MYRIAD RESTAURANT GROUP: I always saved every single dollar that I ever made for an occasion just like this. So, really, it's

day-by-day and what -- we got to wait it out.

[15:55:06]

QUEST: Finally, just to be clear that when this finishes, we're all looking forward to it. You'll be back in business, won't you?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes, I will.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

QUEST: And I think maybe somewhat inadvertently, I have promised to go to numerous restaurants, stay in a variety of inns and have my hair cut or

wedding outfit made by a couple of companies. I'm sure someone somewhere is keeping track of the promises and do know something tonight's profitable

moment. It will be my honor and my treat, my pleasure and delight, to keep every single one of them.

And so, that is QUEST MEANS BUSINESS for tonight and for this week. Thank you for joining me either on the roof, or here in the living room. I'm sure

you're all zooming in to find out what books I've read or where the sofa came from, or anything like that, if you're really good. Next week, I'll

give you a tour around. Otherwise, until you and I are together next week, whatever you're up to over the weekend, I hope it's safe.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

QUEST: This is CNN. We now rejoin the White House Task Force Daily Conference with the President.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Incredible job. You just read off these, no, no, no. Well, we have ventilators. We have equipment. We

have beds. How about beds? I mean, Governor Cuomo just tell me a little while ago, he's got plenty of beds. In fact, they're having a hard time

filling Javits Center. We built them 2,900 beds. So, that's not a fair question.

JIM ACOSTA, CNN CHIEF WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: When you're (INAUDIBLE) saying talking about reusing pp. Obviously,

TRUMP: Jim, Jim, Jim --

ACOSTA: -- masks, I'm talking about reusing PPE. Obviously, you don't have --

TRUMP: No, no, no. Excuse me. We have masks, we have everything. And we were trying to get ready for the surge. And a lot of people said it will

never happen. Deborah said it. You'll never need that many beds. They said we needed 40,000 ventilators, 40,000. It's like building a car, 40,000

ventilators. People said. I felt it too. You'll never need that many. Guess what? We have tremendous -- we have -- we're the envy of the world in terms

of ventilators, Germany would like some, France would like some. We're going to help countries out.

END