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Quest Means Business

Global Oil Prices Fall To 18-Year Low Below $20.00; French Finance Minister Warns Of Oil Price Domino Effect; Trump Promises To Rescue Battered Oil Companies; White House Works To Finalize Exec. Order Suspending Immigration; South Africa Unveils Economic Stimulus Amid Coronavirus; Nigeria Struggling With Hunger Crisis; Portuguese Hotel Delivers Pizzas To Local Workers; Microsoft President On Returning To Work; China Using Technology To Track COVID-19 Cases. Aired 3-4p ET

Aired April 21, 2020 - 15:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[15:00:00]

RICHARD QUEST, CNN BUSINESS ANCHOR, QUEST MEANS BUSINESS: A down day on the market with 60 minutes left of trading. An hour to go and the market is

sharply lower. It is oil concerns, it is worries, 2.5 percent of the market has gone, and across all indices, the broader, the narrow and tech, they

are all sharply lower.

These are the reasons why. Oil price chaos and it is risking a domino effect for those economies directly affected and the global economy behind.

There has been a deal done in the U.S. to replenish the small business fund. There will be a vote on that possibly within a minute or two.

And in South Africa the country's President Ramaphosa has a new aid plan for his country, at the same time it is doubtful South African Airways will

survive.

Live from New York on Tuesday. It's April the 21st. I'm Richard Quest, and of course, yes, in my living room, I mean business.

Hello, everybody. Good evening to you. The extreme movements, dislocation and volatility that we saw in the oil markets on Monday has proved to be

not a blip.

The global benchmark, Brent is now under $20.00 for the first time in 18 years. It's down by two-thirds so far this year. Look at the way that graph

goes from the 60s down to under 18.

WTI -- we've changed contract months now. We're no longer in the May contract. We're now in the June contract. And West Texas Intermediate is

now down at $10.00 a barrel. You'll remember yesterday, it went negative, but that was a technical factor because we were still on the May contract.

Now, we're into the June contract, so it's no longer negative, but it's down at $10.00. It's all about demand. John Defterios is in Abu Dhabi for

more.

We have -- we've got rid of, if you like, that awfulness of yesterday's negative numbers as we move into the June contract. But what is June's

trading telling us?

JOHN DEFTERIOS, CNN BUSINESS EMERGING MARKETS EDITOR: Well, Richard, it's extraordinary. We've seen swings today of 25 percent to 30 percent. They

struggled to hold onto $10.00 for WTI as you were suggesting, and $20.00 for Brent.

The narrative has changed at this stage and I think the real danger here is the ability for the market to read how deep this correction is. I looked

over the last month and everybody was expecting demand destruction of 10, 12, 14 million barrels a day. We're at 29.

So what I am suggesting here is, we could go deeper for longer with a demand destruction of 23, 24, 25 million a day until the end of June, which

would mean, we would hit our commercial capacity for storage by that time.

What if it spills into July? The other thing, I think, Richard, is that the market has been overlooking the loss here of the rigs. We've had five weeks

in a row where the rig count has dropped dramatically. We're down nearly half over the last year, and if you combine that with the CapEx spending

and perhaps the shut-ins we're going to see here in the shale basins with the rig count, you could see loss production to two to three million

barrels a day.

And like the COVID-19 contagion here, Richard, this is spreading into the global markets as well. This is not just a U.S. story that you and I

debated last night.

QUEST: John, it's almost impossible to see a way out of this. I mean, the OPEC cuts of 9.7 million barrels seem rather insignificant now, even if

they were to stick. And OPEC'S cuts are not really the issue now because there is simply so much oil still being produced.

DEFTERIOS: That is absolutely correct. The cuts from OPEC are less than 10 million barrels A day. Importantly, they don't kick in until May 1, right?

So, we've lost seven weeks in that price war between Saudi Arabia and Russia. There were conversations, a teleconference today with some of the

OPEC players. Nobody talked about moving forward a date with the cuts right now or going deeper at this stage.

They're making calculations of the losses between the U.S., Canada, Brazil and Norway. We talked about that in the past. We still have not seen the G-

20 purchases of the excess crude that is in the market right now.

So, they are chasing this market. A cut of nearly 10 million barrels a day where demand is dropping by 30 million barrels a day just won't cut it,

Richard.

[15:05:08]

DEFTERIOS: And then you have to start wondering, is it going to lead to desperate measures by the administration here, protectionist measures to

ban imports from Saudi Arabia and Russia, perhaps even put tariffs on.

This is the narrative coming from Capitol Hill and the pressure on Donald Trump at the same time.

QUEST: John Defterios in Abu Dhabi watching oil for us. The oil market's turmoil has spread itself to stocks across the globe. In New York the

market is sharply low. We've shown you what the Dow Jones is doing.

All sectors are lower in Europe as well. The markets were heavily down in Europe. They compounded Monday's losses, and the French Finance Minister

said that the oil price collapse won't stay confined to the energy sector.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BRUNO LE MAIRE, FRENCH FINANCE MINISTER (through translator): There are risks of a domino effect on markets since these oil companies, of course,

depend on funds and investors. You could, of course, befriend later in the markets and lead to a domino effect in the entire global financial market.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

QUEST: It's important to realize that no country is even close to breaking even when it comes to oil production at the moment. No matter how low their

price of production is, because their government deficits can also be correspondingly higher.

Look at the most oil-dependent nations. Looking at the oil dependent nations, factoring in production costs -- Iraq, Libya, Kuwait and Saudi are

all on the list.

Another critical factor, how much of a cash cushion do each of these countries have? So the IEA says -- the International Energy Agency says

Iraq, Algeria, Nigeria are all at risk.

Meanwhile, the U.S. shale producers are having trouble, too. We know that by looking at the rig count. Donald Trump is promising perhaps some form of

rescue for them, but what they would do is not entirely clear.

Jason Bordoff is with me. He served as Energy Adviser to President Obama. Now, the founding director of Columbia University's Center on Global Energy

Policy. Good to be with you, sir.

Hopefully, you can hear me clearly. So, this is a situation where we have multiple producers, global producers. The U.S. though can't switch on and

off by government fiat. It doesn't work the same way as everybody else. So what happens now when West Texas is as low as it is?

JASON BORDOFF, FOUNDING DIRECTOR, COLUMBIA UNIVERSITY-CENTER ON GLOBAL ENERGY POLICY: Well, this is what happens, right? As you said, President

Trump, it is unusual to see the U.S. Want higher rather than lower oil prices, but that's the situation we're in. And President Trump pushed and

prodded Saudi and Russia and others to cut protection and promised that the U.S. would deliver market-driven cuts.

This is how market-driven cuts work. You need to see the price of oil collapse to the point where you actually incentivize shut-ins and that's

what's happening as we see storage limits breached and pushing negative prices and obviously the June contract has sold off as well.

So, this is the kind of market incentives that you need to deliver the production cuts in the U.S., and we're going to see pretty big production

cuts.

QUEST: Now, the production cuts, we've been talking a lot about why you can't just switch it off. Let's face it, you start to pump up and why can't

you switch it off? We understand now that's not quite so easy.

So essentially once they've started production cuts, this becomes an extremely difficult CapEx issue if you want to get that well started again.

BORDOFF: Yes, it can be particularly damaging to wells to try to shut them off. Now, shale is a little bit unusual because we think of shale as short

cycle. Shale ramps up more quickly and it ramps down more quickly.

But it doesn't happen in a matter of weeks. It's not spare capacity of the kind that Saudi Arabia holds. The way shale works is, it has a pretty steep

decline rate, and if you lay down your rigs and you stop new drilling, you'll see over a period of six to nine months, a shale production decline.

But now we have a month or two in which we need shale production to come off significantly and that's causing the significant bottle necks that are

leading to very low and even negative prices that are incentivizing people to really shut off wells that are still operating and that is difficult and

costly and it can cause some damage to the wells.

QUEST: And in terms of companies going out of business, not just oil producers, but the entire eco-structure, the oil supply companies, what do

you think happens there?

BORDOFF: Well, we're going to see a lot of pain ripple through the oil patch, oil companies and workers. But as you said also, the indirect

companies -- all the jobs, the restaurants, the service workers. We saw 50,000 jobs lost in drilling in March. That is going to continue to rise.

You know, normally you would expect that low prices would also provide some boost to the economy because consumers would save money when they fill up

at the pump.

The problem is no one is filling up at the pump right now because we're on lockdown. So, a lot of the pain in the oil patch will be felt by workers

there and it's now sort of rippling out to the broader macro economy, particularly because the U.S. was on the cusp of becoming a net oil

exporter, it would have been one this year for the first time before this all happened.

[15:10:17]

QUEST: All right, Jason, there's no obviously easy solution, otherwise we would have found it and people would be doing it. Give us guidance as to

how you think this plays out, when we've got West Texas, it looks as though -- I mean, if things carry on, the June contract which is at $10.00 will go

negative, too, with every possibility.

So what does happen next in your view?

BORDOFF: Well, i think what has been happening continues to happen and there's going to be more pain for the oil patch before there's any relief,

maybe another four to six weeks of these kind of very low prices that need to incentivize shut-ins and that is going to be what pull U.S. supply off

the market, maybe something like one and a half, two million barrels a day, that along with production declines elsewhere and the promised OPEC Plus

government mandated production cuts start to help us avoid hitting some of the storage limits.

But it depends how quickly there's a recovery in oil demand, whether we can -- and as John Defterios just said a minute ago, whether the government

allows that to happen or whether because the pain is so intense, we actually see the Trump administration step in to try to provide some relief

and prevent those market-driven supply cuts from happening.

QUEST: Good to see you, Jason. Thank you. I promise you, we will call on you again. We need to understand what's happening. Thank you, sir, making

good commonsense so we all understand what it is.

Now, the pandemic is a catastrophe for the airline industry that much we know of all industries; probably airlines, along the travel and tourism is

the most hard hit or perhaps, not now, as we have heard, we just have been talking about oil.

But you know what I mean. Start with Virgin Australia, which has fallen into administration. The country's closest equivalent to Chapter 11

provisions.

The government has rejected Sir Richard Branson's plea for a nearly $888 million loan, repayable he says and he would repay it with interest.

South Africa Airways could be next to go. It plans to lay off its entire staff. The airline of course has been out of money for some time and only

surviving on government bailouts and guarantees, and now, it seems, the carrier could go for good.

Joel Peterson is the chairman of JetBlue and the author of "Entrepreneur Leadership." He joins me now. Joel, we'll start, first of all, with JetBlue

and then we'll talk about the book.

JetBlue, along with all the other airlines has sought and received assistance from the U.S. government. How long do you think the buffer that

you have at JetBlue will last?

JOEL PETERSON, CHAIRMAN, JETBLUE: Well, the government buffer is intended to go through the end of September, but if the airlines are doing other

things to cut back on capital expenditures, to reduce flights, to park planes and to do a number of other things which should allow them to

survive longer than that, and hopefully to a moment in which people start to travel again, although, on a reduced level.

QUEST: As Chairman of the Board, obviously Robin Hayes is running the ship as the CEO, but tell me, give me an idea of how active or how engaged a

Board of Directors is at this time without obviously micromanaging for the CEO.

PETERSON: That's a great question. Our Board has stayed very involved. We've met virtually every week. Since then, our Board volunteered not to

take any Board fees during this time. Really, getting involved, not micromanaging, but giving our best advice and help where we can.

QUEST: Do you see -- I mean, on this entrepreneurial leadership part, I was reading the guidance that you give or the book suggests. How do you put

that into action in a time like this? If there are defining principles of your philosophy, what would they be?

PETERSON: Well, I think this is the time that entrepreneurial leadership is most needed. We can't have people just managing or administrating or

presiding from the corner office. This is a time when people are going to have to innovate, think about the power of their brand, think about the

future, and really not breach their covenant with their customers.

So, to me, this really requires entrepreneurial leadership.

QUEST: But how can you do that when all the tools that you're going to need -- one can be an entrepreneur in philosophy, but if you haven't got

the tools available to you to execute it, as one doesn't at this time, doesn't that just become moot?

PETERSON: Well, there are always things that you can do. There are decisions that you can make. There are different ways you can serve

customers.

I'm on a number of Boards and we're doing a lot of free things for our customers helping to actually deepen the relationship with the customer.

So, I think this is a time for people to lock arms, work together, realize we're all in this together, and deepen the relationship with customers.

And in the airline industry, I don't think there's much we can do right now while we're in lockdown. We've probably grounded 90 percent of our flights.

So, there's not much you can do then, but we've cut back on service to various cities. We've cut down on the number of flights to other key cities

and so we're doing everything we can.

[15:15:46]

QUEST: The ability to take loans from the government in a time like this, in some cases loans and warrants that will convert to stock in the

airlines, do you worry about having the government as a shareholder?

PETERSON: Not really. They've actually been quite reasonable and thoughtful in putting this CARES Package together, so I think it will be

fine.

QUEST: But -- and separately then, do you worry about loading the airline's balance sheet with so much debt, for many airlines already

heavily or at least had a good weight of debt on them. Because I know you had no choice, and therefore, again, the question is slightly moot.

But I know you had no choice but to do it, otherwise you wouldn't have a business to run. But you are loading the airlines with debt. You can't pay

dividends and you can't do share buybacks in the future.

Does that constrain your abilities in the future?

PETERSON: Of course. We're going to have to -- it's going to take time to rebuild the balance sheets. My guess is, it will take several years to

rebuild the balance sheets in most airlines.

QUEST: Joel, good to speak to you. Thank you for joining us.

PETERSON: Thank you, Richard.

QUEST: I appreciate it. Thank you.

PETERSON: Nice to be with you, Richard. Thank you. Bye now.

QUEST: Always good to talk to you. Thank you. Now, Europe is turning to Apple, Google and others as a way to do coronavirus tracing. Does that

present a difficulty in terms of privacy? Not so, says Margrethe Vestager, but she believes that they must not sacrifice privacy to fight the virus.

Are they incompatible? After the break.

[15:20:13]

QUEST: European leaders are to meet later this week to discuss the economic plan, the Italians say they are not hopeful that there will be an

agreement on the economic direction during the crisis. It seems the old problems will remain.

The new crisis has got the old divisions, The Frugal Four want smaller budgets. Austria, Denmark, The Netherlands and Sweden.

Whilst Friends of Cohesion want larger responses to its crisis. Spain is proposing a $1.6 trillion package. Margrethe Vestager is the Executive Vice

President of the European Commission joins me now.

We have had, haven't we Vice Commissioner, we have had the slightly unseemly view of the countries arguing about fundamental ways forward when

they should be more one together and altogether?

MARGRETHE VESTAGER, EXECUTIVE VICE PRESIDENT OF THE EUROPEAN COMMISSION: Good evening. It's very nice to be with you. You are, indeed right in

saying that there has been discussions back and forth.

But you've probably saw the decisions of the Euro Group the week before this one, both on how to tackle part of the unemployment, how to continue

with the E.C.B. programs of 750 billion euros and how to use the stability mechanism in this.

So the European member states, they are under way having very profound discussions about how to recover from this unprecedented historical

situation.

QUEST: Turning to the question of privacy, obviously this is your main area now and the companies like Apple and Google will be the ones that will

be creating the apps and the infrastructure for much of the coronavirus testing apps or tracing apps. But that creates privacy issues.

Now, I hear you say you don't need to give up privacy to have the apps and vice-versa. But the critics say something is going to have to give.

VESTAGER: Well, I think it's a forced dilemma, because the thing is that you want people to trust the technology. And to create trust, you need to

respect people. You need to say, well, we'll find a technology that respects your privacy, and that is indeed doable. We already have examples.

We have member states forming consortia with telcos in order to develop apps that can do exactly that and to be able to do that cross border.

The important thing, of course, is that the Google, the Apples of this world, that they make sure that the operating systems, they can carry apps

that will communicate with both or many different operating systems.

But it is, indeed, doable, and I think that will create the trust that people will use the technology, and only if these apps are being used they

are helpful in fighting the virus.

QUEST: There can be some of those companies who will say, well, we'll do it, but we just won't issue it in Europe or we'll just keep it away from

Europe even align for GDPR and all of that because, frankly, you know, Margrethe Vestager has been so difficult to work with. Her bureaucracy is

so challenging, and whatever we do, we always end up getting it wrong?

VESTAGER: Well, I think that you would see that many, many, many businesses, they have an excellent business in Europe. Europe is a good

place to do business. Businesses that make profit, they expand, they have happy customers here.

And that's because we have fair competition. We have a marketplace where you can trust that if someone is misusing it in position, if someone forms

a cartel, well, then either national competition authorities or European competition authorities where I have the responsibility that of course,

will look for that.

Because the huge majority of businesses, they do good business. They do it by the book, and they can do that trusting that someone will look after the

few who do not abide by the rules.

QUEST: Now, you talk about competition. There is a great deal of concern that companies, particularly Chinese companies, could be on the lockout to

buy European companies cheap since their share prices have been so badly knocked down.

I know you're going to be watching out closely for this. What is going to be your guiding light on whether or not to allow or to investigate what

seems to be somebody snapping up bargains?

VESTAGER: Well, of course member states, they have the front line here because they are the first port to call if they find that a strategically

important business is at the risk of a hostile takeover.

[15:25:29]

VESTAGER: They can do the simple thing of buying shares, but we have also developed a tool that allows us to screen foreign direct investment to see

if people come here to do business or they come for the wrong reasons.

And we're in the process of developing our investigative tools to see if an acquisition is done with foreign subsidies, by for instance a foreign

state-owned company or a company backed by a foreign state, and that people do not come here for the best business intentions.

QUEST: If we look at this, because there's one company overall that has stood out, and that is Amazon. The way in which -- I mean, share prices

remains at record highs. It seems to be the backbone of much retailing in the E.U. and the U.S. throughout this crisis.

Are you worried, Vice President, are you worried that what was a seriously dominant player has become even more so?

VESTAGER: Well, as you probably know, we have an ongoing investigation into Amazon's use of data. It started before the corona crisis and will

probably not be done until the corona crisis is over.

But we started this investigation because we did already have a worry about the Amazon use of data, and that of course may be more troublesome if

Amazon entrench a position where we say that in some markets they are indeed dominant.

QUEST: Good to talk to you. Thank you very much. Executive Vice President Margrethe Vestager joining me from Brussels there.

VESTAGER: It was my pleasure. Thank you.

QUEST: Thank you very much. I appreciate it. As always. Keep well. Keep well as well, most important of all during through all of this.

Now, the small businesses in the United States could be getting more help soon. A new deal has been reached in Congress. $450 billion package. It

includes funds for hospitals and testing.

Manu Raju is with me. Manu, okay, of this money, which has just been announced, how much of it is new money for small businesses? I understand

the testing, I understand the hospitals. But do we know yet how much is actually going to replenish the PPP?

MANU RAJU, CNN SENIOR CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes, $310 billion will go to replenish the PPP. And as part of that, it would set aside about $60

billion that will go to smaller facilities to ensure some so-called under- banked entities that could get this money that perhaps were not eligible or didn't move fast enough the first time.

Places in rural areas, as well as minority-owned businesses. That's what the focus is for that $60 billion. But overall, there will be $310 billion.

In addition to that, there will be another $60 billion -- or there will be $50 billion that will be available for what's called disaster recovery

loans, small businesses could apply for that money as well.

Then as you mentioned, there are other major provisions in here, including $75 billion to help hospitals deal with this crisis here in the United

States, an additional $25 billion to expand testing that needs to happen throughout the states, as well as the Federal government that have been a

point of contention for days how exactly to structure that. They've reached an agreement here.

So now that they have this deal, it's actually going to be probably around $480 billion, the latest intervention by Washington into the struggling

economy. Now, that they have this deal, it is expected to move pretty quickly in the Senate and the U.S. Senate is expected to approve this in

the next hour and then afterwards expect the U.S. House to approve this on Thursday and then it goes to the President's desk and then he will sign

this into law.

And then just wait. There will be another package to deal with this economic crisis in just a matter of weeks here -- Richard.

QUEST: Will it be enough? I guess, that's the only question that's remaining, isn't it? I mean, on all fronts, the testing because when the

testing gets under way big-time as the economy reopens, and the money for the small businesses, will it be enough, Manu? Do we have an idea yet? Are

people saying this is it?

RAJU: Basically both sides are saying it will absolutely not be enough. This, they believe, this money will go pretty quickly, particularly these

loans, these forgivable loans that small businesses are applying for.

They went -- the last tranche went away very quickly, within two weeks.

[15:30:10]

And now, we're looking at a similar pot of money here $310 billion. We expect that to go pretty quickly, too. And then, Congress will be right

back at it as far as dealing with a number of struggling industries that need more money, different hospitals. And we also -- this was not in this

deal was funding for state and local governments. They then been asking for $500 billion to deal with all of their problems.

They've already gotten $150 billion to the last (INAUDIBLE) package. So expect that to be another point of contention discussion going forward. And

this just shows you just dwarfs the last emergency effort that occurred in 2008 in the aftermath of the financial crisis, $700 billion was provided to

prop up the banking industry here. We're talking about trillions of dollars being spent now. And when the ultimate question, Richard, is will that be

enough?

RICHARD QUEST, CNN INTERNATIONAL HOST: Manu, thank you. We'll talk more. Thank you very much indeed. Billions, hundreds of billions, well over a

trillion if you look at it all added up. And when we come back after the short break, I have the news headlines, and then in South Africa where the

President has offered new help for the economy? In a moment.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

QUEST: Hello, I'm Richard Quest. There's more QUEST MEANS BUSINESS in just a moment. We'll be in South Africa in a moment to hear about the latest

plans of the President, Cyril Ramaphosa, to help support the South African economy. And the "VOICE OF THE CRISIS," the Portuguese hotel that has no

guests, but the hotel owner still keeps everybody on the payroll. We'll talk to them even as though -- in just a moment. This is CNN. And on this

network, the news always comes first.

The Trump administration is working to finalize an executive order, suspending immigration into the United States. The White House says it will

help alleviate the economic stress brought on by the virus. The critics of the order say immigration is already essentially stopped, and this is more

about political messaging.

[15:35:14]

Britain's Health Secretary says researchers will begin testing a vaccine on people on Thursday. The vaccine was developed at Oxford University. More

than 500 people will be given different doses. The trial will take six months.

The U.S. official tells CNN, the country is monitoring intelligence, suggesting North Korea's leader is in great health. A South Korean news

site prompted, reported that Kim Jong-un had cardiovascular surgery last week. The report remains unverified.

There's something you don't see every day, four high-rise buildings being taken down at the same time. They are part of a Shanghai China construction

project that's been stalled for decades. In their place, the developers will put up office buildings, a shopping center, and of course, hotels.

South Africa's President Cyril Ramaphosa has been speaking, and he's come up with the country's economic resurgence plan, the stimulus package. It's

a much -- he describes as a massive social and economic stimulus. It's worth $26 billion. And that amounts to 10 percent of GDP. To the early

stages for the country says which is in the early stage of the pandemic, and already millions of people are struggling to survive the lockdown and

calling for a restructuring. Eleni Giokos is in Johannesburg and joins me now. Well, I mean, this is impressive. It's a large amount of money and it

seems to be targeted well.

ELENI GIOKOS, CNN INTERNATIONAL BUSINESS CORRESPONDENT: Yes. Exactly. So, there's two things here. Firstly, where did South Africa get this money,

and secondly, of course, how is it going to spend it? So confirmation, that South Africa has officially approached the World Bank, the IMF, African

Development Bank, as well as the BRICS bank, the New Development Bank. It's really important to note that around 6 billion of the $26 billion is going

to be sourced from the current budget, everything else is going to be raised, either locally or these -- through these financing institutions.

So, already, you're looking at, you know, increasing debt to GDP in this country. We barely had any fiscal room. And now, he's been forced to do

this purely because the five-week lockdown, many economists say, has caused an economic calamity. Remember, South Africa is expected to contract by

around six percent this year. Some economists are saying that that is a conservative number, we should be looking at closer to eight percent.

Now, in terms of how they plan to spend this, obviously, some of that money is going to be pumped into the health sector, but the risk, social graphs,

and also trying to target people that are not in any system and are unbanked. That's going to be really important. Remember, Richard, some

people in this country, many people in this country are really living on the poverty line and facing starvation under these circumstances. Ramaphosa

mentioned that he's very concerned about food security. So, that is going to be a target. And then the risk trying to save jobs. He spoke about

infrastructure spending, and localization.

And of course, the word that you and I have been talking about for very long time is radical economic transformation, that even crept in. So, big

promises. I guess the question is here, are they going to be able to deliver this and in a crisis, in a pandemic, the economy that already was

struggling?

QUEST: South African Airways, they've already been -- they're now been told basically to lay off all staff. Is this the end of the airline?

GIOKOS: Yes, I mean, look, he mentioned, interestingly, that there's going to be an overhaul of state-owned enterprises. He didn't mention SAA, in

particular, but we know that jobs are going to be lost, that government denied the latest bailout package that SAA requested, a lot of people have

not been paid. That's what we're hearing from staff members within SAA. Richard, I think that unfortunately, you know, the vulnerable countries,

and then the vulnerable companies within countries, it's going to be a tipping point and SAA could be under, you know, that scenario.

QUEST: Eleni Giokos in South Africa. We'll follow on carefully with that. Thank you very much. As you know, Nigeria says it's a school struggling

with a hunger crisis as well as the pandemic. There are serious problems caused in part by supply chain shortages. Our correspondent, Stephanie

Busari is in Nigeria.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

STEPHANIE BUSARI, CNN INTERNATIONAL PRODUCER: These extraordinary scenes show young men looting a truck, carrying bags of food in Nigeria's capital,

Abuja. There's very little social distancing, and they are concerned only about getting their hands on the food. These are signs of the desperation

and hunger that people feel here, as the country battles the pandemic.

[15:40:09]

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes. If my job is permits me to go out, Allah, I would go out.

BUSARI: OK. So that means --

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Even though I hear -- I see army (INAUDIBLE) I don't care. See, I don't care the army will kill me. I prefer to die by

coronavirus than to die by angry virus.

BUSARI: It's nighttime, and these men are patrolling the streets of a Lagos neighborhood, armed with machetes. They say they have seen a surge in

crimes since the lockdown started.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We decided to use whatever we have to defend ourselves and our people in our community.

BUSARI: Nigeria's police say it has dispatched extra forces to deal with the trouble and urges citizens for calm. But as hunger bites in the poorest

communities, President Muhammadu Buhari ordered 70,000 tons of grain to be released from the country's reserves. And hundreds of bags of rice seized

by Nigeria's customs are also being distributed to the country's poorest. But for the millions of hungry Nigerians stuck at home and not earning,

this relief is not coming quickly enough. And there are fears that this country could soon be pushed to the brink in this battle of lives against

livelihoods. Stephanie Busari, CNN, Lagos.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

QUEST: Another story that we'll watch closely, of course, in the days ahead. As you and I continue, well, after the break, a heartwarming story.

The Portuguese hotelier who's got no guests, but he still kept all his staff in a moment.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

QUEST: Tonight's "VOICE OF THE CRISIS," we go to Portugal, where we meet the owner of the Craveiral Farmhouse. Now, there are no guests, obviously,

because of social distancing and the regulations and things have to be closed. And the farmhouse was hit hard with cancellations but didn't want

to lay off any staff, began making pizzas for local workers. Pedro Franca Pinto is the founder and CEO. He joins me now via Skype. Good to see you,

sir. Thank you. And it's a --

PEDRO FRANCA PINTO, FOUNDER & CEO, CRAVEIRAL FARMHOUSE (via Skype): Hi, Richard.

QUEST: It's a fascinating story because you really -- you wanted to behave by your principles and your integrity. Your -- I'm reading that, you know,

sustainability, you actually wanted to behave with the integrity by not losing your staff, didn't you?

[15:45:15]

PINTO: Yes. If you're (INAUDIBLE) where you want to be engaged with the community or to be sustainable or to promote the wellbeing of our staff, we

in difficult times, those values and those principles should be crystal clear. So, our option -- and this is a long -- a life project and a

lockdown of two months and a recovery period of 18 months, it's tiny period for the lifetime of the project. So, we want to comply with the -- with the

principles, keeping the staff, promoting the wellbeing of our -- of our staff and making them work.

QUEST: Right, right. Now, what about the way in which you're keeping it going? Because obviously, you've got no money coming in. you've reduced the

number of hours per day. But how long can you keep this noble task going?

PINTO: Well, luckily, we have the -- our shareholders, they're helping us with equity. We have our local bank supporting, but in terms of (INAUDIBLE)

performance to pick without any entry of cash, but in fact, the export distribution on Milan (INAUDIBLE) is really tackling the sanitary issue. We

don't have any casualty in the region and we only have 173 people infected. We are already receiving bookings for the summer.

So, we are in the middle of this, we are quite optimistic that in consideration the characteristics of Craveiral Farmhouse, it will be -- we

will have guests in December. We -- and in fact, two days ago, we started to receive bookings for July and August. Of course, it will not work with

the --

QUEST: Right. Right. So --

PINTO: Yes?

QUEST: So, this is -- this is -- I mean, we always like to hear the upper side part of somebody who's in business, you are receiving bookings for

later in the year that hopefully you will be able to meet.

PINTO: Yes. Combined with the -- from the street mappers like only to put a viable out of our inventory to deliver breakfast to the houses, to the

villas. So, to promote the social distancing, we have nine acres of land, we have a lot of four different pools. So, it's possible to go be here with

quality of life.

QUEST: We thank you for joining us, giving us the story. If I'm -- if I'm down your way, I'll certainly come and stay. Thank you very much indeed.

You're the voice of the crisis. The stuff that people are doing. Yet another promise that I think I may have made. My travel plans will be very

full after this crisis. Thank you for joining us.

PINTO: Thank you.

QUEST: After the break, we're going to talk about tracing those who have coronavirus and the Chinese way of doing it, after the break.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[15:50:00]

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

QUEST: The Italian author, John Ferrari, says it's going to start testing workers. So, before they go back to work to try and reopen the company. In

the United States, many companies are looking at how they can test employees so that they can reopen and get back to work. But one top CEO,

one top leader says, no, the testing should be left and the test should be left to those who need it most.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BRAD SMITH, PRESIDENT, MICROSOFT (via Skype): Don't want to divert the test kits that right now are the critical supply in short supply, you know, from

the first responders, from the health authorities, from the people with symptoms that need it most. But we'll have the chance all together to look

beyond that. I think the most important thing to really think about is that getting back to work. Unfortunately, in the short term, doesn't mean

getting back to normal.

I think, you know, our workplaces were not designed around the world to keep people six feet apart. But as we bring people back to work, we're

going to need to keep them six feet apart.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

QUEST: The central part, of course, is as companies reopen, when it's one thing to have testing, but you also need tracing for those people who then

test positive. In China, they've been using technology to use tracing, and this has caused some issues of privacy concerns as you might understand, as

David Culver reports from Shanghai.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

DAVID CULVER, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: China's reopening is happening under the watchful eye of big data and perhaps, Big Brother,

local governments tracking the movement of hundreds of millions. We noticed this started this effort back in mid-February, arriving in Shanghai from

Beijing, each arriving passenger required to write down health and travel history, and register for your personal QR or barcode.

I've been traveling away from China for the past 14 days, no.

A few weeks later in Shanghai, had rolled out its QR codes citywide. Walking into a restaurant, hotel, shopping mall, you're expected to show

it. Here in Shanghai, shop owners and hotel managers have told us a green means you're clear to go. Yellow or red suggest you've been in an area with

high exposure to the virus and it could mean quarantine. It is all part of contact tracing, an effort to track and contain confirmed cases. Here in

China, it's done on the widely used WeChat and Alipay apps.

XIAN-SHENG HUA, HEAD OF ALIBABA CLOUD ARTIFICIAL INTELLIGENCE CENTER: To stop the spread of the virus, contact tracing is an essential step and this

is why a similar initiatives are being adopted in many places around the world.

CULVER: Major Chinese tech companies are finding other innovations amid the outbreak. CNN spoke with Xian-Sheng Hua from Alibaba. He does Artificial

Intelligence research. He says more than 160 hospitals in China and others in Japan are using the CT image analytics to help diagnose coronavirus.

HUA: The whole process is nearly 50 times faster than human detection.

CULVER: Alibaba also turning to genome sequencing, analyzing the virus' DNA to help diagnose the virus. They say they can screen 20 samples

simultaneously. The tech giant also involved in tracking future hotspots at the virus. It's all giving the company potential access to so much personal

health data, raising privacy concerns.

HUA: So, we don't store any data. We just analyze it and then pass the results to the hospital where a doctor can use ot as a reference to assist

their own medical judgment.

CULVER: What about the government, though, particularly with the QR codes, personal local data and health information? It might prove effective in

containing the spread. But is it the start of China using a pandemic to closely track its citizens and those potentially of other countries? Should

they export this technology? Local governments using the QR have publicly posted, they will discontinue them as soon as the outbreak ends.

JASON LAU, CYBERSECURITY AND PRIVACY EXPERT, HONG KONG BAPTIST UNIVERSITY: Who's going to determine like, for example, when the pandemic actually

ends? When is the end point?

[15:55:10]

When should governmental companies actually delete the personal data or the tracing data that they're actually collecting?

CULVER: For now, many here in China, focused on stopping the spread and navigating their new normal. David Culver, CNN, Shanghai.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

QUEST: Going to have a quick look at the markets as we leave you tonight, ahead of the closing bell. At the end of the trading day, they're all down.

The Dow is off to an output. It's off the lows of the day, but still pretty miserable. And that's QUEST MEANS BUSINESS for tonight. Many thanks to

those of you who have written to me or to e-mailed or texted or whatever, to say, hope I'm feeling better. I am. I'm feeling not too bad. We'll see

how it goes. The markets closed down. That is QUEST MEANS BUSINESS for tonight. I'm Richard Quest in New York. Whatever you're up to in the hours

ahead, I hope it's profitable. I'll be back with you here in the living room, tomorrow.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

ANNOUNCER: This is CNN Breaking News.

JAKE TAPPER, CNN HOST: Welcome to THE LEAD. I'm Jake Tapper. We have some breaking news for you on a drug that the President has been touting as a

possible miracle treatment for coronavirus. It turns out one brand new study shows that hydroxychloroquine might not be miraculous at all, and in

some cases, could actually increase the chances of a coronavirus patient, dying. We'll hit those details with Dr. Sanjay Gupta shortly.

But first, right now, the death toll in the United States from coronavirus is nearly -- nearing 44,000. At this time last week, there were about

25,000 deaths in the U.S. and despite that growing death toll, there is a deepening divide in the U.S. as some states begin to scale back measures in

an effort to ease some of the economic pain of the pandemic. You will soon be able to go to the gym in Georgia or to the beach or a department store

in South Carolina.

In Colorado, you will soon be able to visit a salon and visit the vast majority of businesses in Tennessee.

END