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Quest Means Business
Stocks Fall As China Cracks Down On Hong Kong, Stoking U.S. Tensions; Death Toll Rising From Plane Crash In Karachi; U.K. Announces 14- Day Quarantine For Arrivals From June 8; Hydroxychloroquine Increase Risk Of Death; Jamal Khashoggi's Children Pardon Their Father's Killers. Aired 3-4p ET
Aired May 22, 2020 - 15:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
RICHARD QUEST, CNN BUSINESS ANCHOR: As we come to the last trading day of the week, a Friday and the markets are red. It's a down day to end the
week, but not hugely. Look at that, just quarter of a point when you think of the gains and the swings over the course of the week, we shouldn't
necessarily get upset about this.
Those are the markets and these are some of the reasons why. The White House is warning China of sanctions as China ups the ante with new laws and
rules concerning Hong Kong.
Donald Trump asks U.S. places of worship to open immediately.
Now, if you are going to the U.K., well, the U.K. is announcing new quarantine rules for arrivals.
Live from New York on Friday. May the 22nd. I'm Richard Quest and pleasure to get you to the end of the week, I still mean business.
So, what is worrying investors if there isn't enough on their plate between COVID, trade and difficulties of geopolitics, now, it is the relationship
between China and Hong Kong as China seems to ratchet up the amount of pressure it is putting on its special administrative region.
The White House says it won't give China a pass, as the Chinese government announced new proposed rules and regulations as it tightens its grip.
The White House is saying new tariffs are possible and you're seeing the effect, slightly different in the markets in New York. The two are up,
NASDAQ and S&P. The big board is down. That's because of Boeing.
And if you look at the way Hong Kong was down nearly five and a half percent, Nikkei down, Shanghai Composite all lower.
Kevin Hassett, the White House economist says China's move to tighten its grip could impact Phase 1 Trade Deal or bring new sanctions.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
KEVIN HASSETT, WHITE HOUSE SENIOR ECONOMIC ADVISER: We're absolutely not going to give China a pass. You know, all the options are on the table and
I could say, as an economist that you know, if Hong Kong stops being Hong Kong, the open place that it is, then it's no longer going to be the
financial center that it is and that's going to be very, very costly to China and to the people of Hong Kong.
And so, yes, I think it's a very difficult scary move, and that is something that people need to pay close attention to.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
QUEST: It all begs the question, when we look it from the Chinese point of view, why now? Why cause such uncertainty other than perhaps you might be
able to get away with it while the rest of the world is all preoccupied with coronavirus?
CNN's Anna Coren reports.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
ANNA COREN, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice over): After almost a year of civil unrest on the streets of Hong Kong, Beijing has finally had
enough.
Instead of rolling in the tanks and troops as some had feared to crush growing dissent, China has instead decided to use the law to bring this
semiautonomous city under its full control.
On the eve of the opening of the National People's Congress in Beijing, officials announced that China was preparing to enact the highly
controversial National Security Law directly into Hong Kong's Basic Law.
The city's mini Constitution completely bypassing the local legislature.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DENNIS KWOK, PRO-DEMOCRACY LAWMAKER: This is the end of Hong Kong. This is the end of one country two systems. Make no mistake about it. That Beijing
and the Central People's government has completely breached its promise to the Hong Kong people.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COREN (voice over): Under the new law expected to be passed by Beijing within the week, any act of treason secession, sedition and subversion
against the Chinese government would be banned.
It also allows China to set up national security branches in Hong Kong, if needed.
A Chinese official justified the move.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
WANG CHEN, DEPARTMENT CHAIRMAN, STANDING COMMITTEE, NATIONAL PEOPLE'S Congress (through translator): The legal system and mechanism for
safeguarding national security is not complete, not suitable, and not up to requirements, which gave rise to all sorts of activities that jeopardize
national security getting worse and worse.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COREN (voice over): For the protesters who have been taking to the streets, fighting against the erosion of their freedoms, these demonstrations could
soon be a criminal offense.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Very afraid because we don't know what the details for the Hong Kong people.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It makes me feel disappointed and also angry about it.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COREN (voice over): When Hong Kong attempted to pass the National Security Legislation Bill back in 2003, there was overwhelming backlash.
More than half a million people poured into the streets, the largest demonstration at the time.
[15:05:17]
COREN (voice over): The turnout forced Hong Kong's pro-Beijing lawmakers to shove the Bill even though they always had the numbers to pass it.
Now, China under Xi Jinping's authoritarian rule is doing the job for them.
When Britain returned Hong Kong to the Chinese back in 1997, the agreement was for the territory to enjoy 50 years of semi-autonomy under the one
country two systems policy.
Pro-democracy campaigner Joshua Wong says China's move brings an end to that unique deal.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JOSHUA WONG, PRO-DEMOCRACY CAMPAIGNER: They totally violate on judicial independence and rule of law. So now is the era of one country one system.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COREN (voice over): Hong Kong's leader, Carrie Lam said she supports the move by Beijing, arguing, it is in the interest of the public and won't
affect the rights and freedoms of the city.
But activists say, this decision will bring people back onto the streets.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
WONG: The tension triggered by Beijing would just escalate the social momentum. That's the mistake made by Beijing.
CLAUDIO MO, PRO-DEMOCRACY LAWMAKER: They've misunderstood our way young's anger and desperation and antipathy. The fighting for their future.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COREN (voice over): And that fight could mean another violent summer of discontent in this city.
Anna Coren, CNN, Hong Kong.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
QUEST: Needless to say, international business is extremely concerned about what it has seen. Tara Joseph is the President of the American Hong Kong
Business Association Chamber of Commerce.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TARA JOSEPH, PRESIDENT, AMERICAN CHAMBER OF COMMERCE-HONG KONG: Hong Kong is a win-win. It is a win for Beijing. It needs access to the international
capital markets. It likes having a Financial Services Center and Hong Kong is a win for the United States and for companies here.
So by seeing Hong Kong ruled over by the boss of geopolitical tensions is really not good for either side in terms of business in the long run.
That said, we've reached a point where U.S.-China trade relations and the geopolitical relations are reaching a point of potential decoupling, and
that could have very stiff consequences.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
QUEST: Patrick Chovanec is with me to talk about this more. He is the Economic Advisor at Silvercrest Asset Management. Why now, Patrick? Why
have they done this? Is it just because they've had enough, the time is right, and everybody's looking in the opposite direction.
PATRICK CHOVANEC, ECONOMIC ADVISOR, SILVERCREST ASSET MANAGEMENT: Well, Xi Jinping has a very top down authoritarian approach to power within China,
and it has been frustrated in Hong Kong. They had to back down this last fall and actually pulled the Bill that they intended to have passed because
of these massive protests.
And, you know, a lot of people were surprised that they actually stepped down from that and there was a bit of a lull. But now it seems that, you
know, they're going to Plan B, which is essentially to impose rule by decree, at least when it comes to democratic and popular opposition in Hong
Kong, and this could really be a sea change when it comes to how the rest of the world sees Hong Kong.
QUEST: Is there a danger that assuming just for the purpose of this question that there is more uprisings within Hong Kong, but as a matter of
business, nothing changes. But as a matter of democracy and sort of fundamental rights, everything changes, and the worrying part would be in
business, if CEOs outside Hong Kong just decide well, that's that. But we'll carry on doing business with China anyway.
CHOVANEC: That might be a short-term perspective. But I think when it comes to Hong Kong, the issue of civil liberties and rule of law and one country
two systems and the fact that Hong Kong had a different system than China really has a lot of economic and financial significance.
Companies based themselves in Hong Kong. They put their money in Hong Kong. They use it as a base, not just for China, but the whole region, and they
have contracts done under Hong Kong law, because they trust that system more than they trust the system on the Mainland.
And if you scrapped that, then Hong Kong becomes just another Mainland city. I think that's a real problem for Hong Kong's status.
QUEST: Right. But let me go to the core here. There are those who believe that Beijing has always had it in for Hong Kong in some shape or form.
Shanghai might be the domestic international window, if you like. But actually, Beijing wouldn't cry too many tears if Hong Kong's economy
suffered. And Shanghai, for example, or one of the other major Chinese cities, was able to pick up some of that slack, am I just being too
cynical?
[15:10:21]
CHOVANEC: That assumes that Hong Kong is easily replaceable. For many years, decades really, there's been talk about China wanting to move
financial and other activities to Shanghai or even Beijing. That hasn't happened for the reasons that I mentioned.
That people just put a lot more confidence in the two systems, the other system in Hong Kong than they have when they're in the Mainland.
And so people have not been willing to relocate those activities into Shanghai, and I think that China actually really does lose something. If it
loses the function that Hong Kong as a relatively free and open society, and one that is ruled under law. If they lose that, I think that they lose
a very significant asset.
QUEST: Patrick, good to see you, sir. Thank you. Have a good weekend.
Now, to Pakistan where, of course, the death toll as rising from the plane crash just outside Karachi. The pictures are quite horrifying when you
think what must have happened and for those both not only on the aircraft, but also on the ground.
Pakistan International Airlines went down in a busy residential area; 99 people on board at least 41 killed according to the airline's CEO. There
are two known survivors.
The pilot had issued a mayday call and said the plane had lost engines. I don't mean physically, I mean, the power from engines. No buildings were
hit.
Mary Schiavo is our aviation analyst, former Inspector General of the U.S. Transportation Department. Mary, this, first of all, does an attempted
landing, then there's a go around, then there's talk that the landing gear didn't deploy and then we have a mayday. Put all of that into the pot and
what do you come up with?
MARY SCHIAVO, CNN AVIATION ANALYST: Well, I come up with -- and I also looked at the altitude data, they were apparently coming in for the first
attempt, they got within a couple of hundred feet of the altitude, a couple hundred feet above the runway, and then did a go round.
But then the altitude showed us that they climbed, you know, rather normally. They got to a pretty decent altitude. They got to the altitude
the air traffic control told them to go to, a few thousand feet above the ground and then turned around to come back.
And then at that point on the second round of communications with air traffic control is when they indicated that they had lost both -- now, some
reports say, it lost an engine and if you listen to really close to air traffic control recording, it sounds to me like they said engines.
And then at that point, air traffic control asked them if they're going to make a belly landing which would suggest that on the first aborted attempt
to land, they told air traffic control that they did not have an indication that their gear was down and locked.
That's the best explanation I can come up with, but that means on the go around, they lost the power or the fuel or the power to the engines on the
go around.
QUEST: All right, so within that, so let's go through those. To lose the engines because of fuel, unless there's a malfunction, but highly unlikely.
It was a short flight and they should have had plenty of reserve and there's no indication of any of that.
The aircraft that -- I don't know Mary, you may have seen the pictures that are online in various places that seem to suggest scarring on the engines
from the plane in flight. We don't know whether they're even real pictures or not. They seem to be highly suspect and unusual. We just don't know.
But one of the senior executives at the airline said that it didn't land on the building, it landed on a lane nearby. What do we make of all of it?
SCHIAVO: Well, if that's true, and when you look at again, their reported pictures of the last moments of the flight, the flight was coming in level,
straight and level. Its wings were you know, even, you know, one with the other. It wasn't pitching to the left or to the right, which would suggest
if it had lost power in both engines, that that was indeed the case.
One engine was not dominant, one engine was not running and the other one wasn't, and that they were still controlling the plane to the extent they
could without the power and were aiming for a place to land.
QUEST: Mary, in a sentence, this is one where, provided they get the black boxes, we will know what happened, correct?
SCHIAVO: Absolutely. This is all on the black boxes because it's a mechanical and we will have -- they will have the black boxes. I think,
they probably already have them now.
As soon as they download them, they will be able to see what's going on and undoubtedly the pilots troubleshot the situation with each other. So, it
will be on the cockpit voice recording as well.
QUEST: Mary, have a good weekend. Thank you. Good friend, always good to have you on the program to talk about this issues. We are very grateful.
[15:15:28]
QUEST: Now, George Soros says the coronavirus epidemic or pandemic could bring the end of the E.U. Is it just hyperbole? Realistically.
Well, maybe no when you think of what's happened with Italy and the way Italy has been treated. So, instead, George Soros is calling for the bloc
to issue debt with no end date, if it hopes to survive. In a moment.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
QUEST: A couple of weeks ago, Boris Johnson had hinted that there would be quarantine restrictions for people visiting the United Kingdom, now, the
government has confirmed exactly what it is going to be.
Fourteen days. All arrivals must self-isolate for two weeks after arriving in the U.K. That begins on June the eighth. Violators will face penalties.
Airlines and airports are warning of economic consequences if that is the case.
However, Downing Street says that Boris Johnson would go to the United States possibly for the G-7 Summit next month.
Look, I can see people making a huge fuss, Max Foster is with me. I can see people drawing -- it's all right for them. They get to go to the U.S. and
they don't have to go into 14 days quarantine and vice versa going back.
But there is a reality. It is different for world leaders when they have to go about their business.
MAX FOSTER, CNN LONDON CORRESPONDENT: And also, the general guidance is that no one should be traveling unless it's for essential purposes.
But as you say, some people are going through quarantine, some people aren't. The government hasn't made it entirely clear as to why they're
enforcing these quarantine rules now, instead of earlier on in the crisis, only to say that people weren't really traveling earlier in the crisis.
They're now looking at the point at which people are starting to travel. They need to do whatever they can to prevent the second wave, which is why
they are bringing in these quite tough rules.
There are these on-the-spot checks on whether or not people are quarantining. There will be fines of a thousand pounds over a thousand
dollars, but actually, ultimately there could be unlimited fines if the case ends up in court as well.
So, very strict rules and you'll know better than me how it's going down in the travel industry, which is hoping to get some sort of reprieve with the
lift of the lockdown in the U.K.
[15:20:13]
QUEST: Well, Max, forgive me. It sounds like I'm interviewing myself here, but you know, you've raised the point.
I mean, there cannot be foreign travel industry if you have the quarantine restrictions. It is the sine qua non of managing to open up that there is
no quarantine restrictions.
So Max, with that in mind, what are they going to do? I mean, how long are they likely to keep it in place?
FOSTER: So, they're reviewing it every three weeks. I mean, we were asking questions -- journalists were asking questions today, you know, this idea
of air bridges to low infection countries, is that on the table?
Priti Patel, the Home Secretary said, not yet, which didn't write that off either. I think they are just looking at the data right now. And the second
wave is their top priority, avoiding a second wave.
So, they're considering things, but you do get the impression, frankly, Richard, I'm sure you've got the same impression that they are sort of
responding day-to-day to whatever crisis hits them.
So, it's always very difficult to see or try to predict what they're going to do next. But there's a huge amount of concern in the travel industry.
Also just holidaymakers, people that have been under huge amounts of pressure, being locked in their houses, who are looking forward to holidays
that were booked.
Where Priti Patel was asked, should we be going on holidays? Should we cancel our holidays? All she said was, this is not the time to be booking
holidays, so effectively, no, you shouldn't be going on holiday. You should just be going on essential travel.
QUEST: Oh, I can hear the travel industry loving that, Max, first time I've had a proper chance to speak to you. I hope that you and the family have
all been well throughout, I hope.
FOSTER: We have been well. I'm very pleased to go through this live hit without a child coming through the back door, because that's what's been
happening for the last 10 minutes. So, I survived that.
But yes, it's a strange world, but it's interesting, isn't it, with our industry, Richard? Actually, you would have thought our jobs would be
impossible to do from home, really. But we've managed to do it and it does raise the question about how all these different types of industries will
change in the future.
I'm sure you've cover that on the show, but it's been an interesting time. But we're tribal creatures. We need to see each other, particularly
journalists.
QUEST: I was hoping to see the family coming through the back door. Never mind, there will still be another opportunity for that in the future. Thank
you. Max Foster, have a lovely weekend.
George Soros says that the end of the E.U. could be upon us unless there's some form of perpetual bond, mutualization of debt to help pay for those
countries that are in more trouble than not.
It's a similar idea by the way, Merkel and Macron decided they weren't exactly against it. Soros says consols can help heartache members like
Italy. The cost/benefit ratio of 1:200 and you only need to raise taxes to maintain the AAA ratings.
Enrico Letta is the former Italian Prime Minister. He joins me now.
Before we talk about Soros, how bruised are the feelings in Italy about the way the EC treated the country during its worst days of the pandemic?
ENRICO LETTA, FORMER ITALIAN PRIME MINISTER: You know, at the very beginning, there was sentiment and there was the rise of Euro skepticism.
Because, you know, this crisis is the third in a row in which Italy and the Italians is felt to be left alone.
The financial crisis 10 years ago, also the refugee crisis were really because of geography, we were in the first row and without many help from
the European Union.
So, in that case, the feeling to be left alone was very, very high. And so this is why I think it is really necessary to have a very comprehensive,
fast and effective European response.
QUEST: Okay, so a couple -- one trillion already has been fiddled and finagled on to the table. Now, let's talk about this idea of perpetual
bonds, coronavirus bonds, which until last week seemed to be a nonstarter for the Germans.
But now Macron and Merkel, you'll have seen last week were talking about some form of mutualization of debt. Will this be accepted -- obviously,
you've wanted this. What more would you like?
LETTA: I think it's a very important step. It's a show of, I would say, courage from Merkel, and I think it is also a consequence of the
Constitutional Court -- the German Constitutional Court that took a decision around 10 years ago -- 10 days ago that was very tough against
Europe.
And I think this decision was a sort of an own goal for them, because at the end of the day, the German government was at least obliged to move and
to be more courageous.
[15:25:21]
QUEST: Right.
LETTA: And today's decision and what is happening in this very days with this recovery plan, I think it is very important. It is an important step
for the future of Europe. It is the demonstration of solidarity, and it is also the way to have Euro bonds without naming them Euro bonds. That is the
only solution at the end of the day.
QUEST: Okay. But people have talked about there being an existential crisis. Is it your view that that has gone away? Or do you think that for
countries like Italy and Greece and in fact the whole fabric of the whole E.U., that the existential threat still exists?
LETTA: I think it is an existential threat. It is like that because exactly -- because it is not the first crisis. It is a decade of crisis and the
Italian people were absolutely upset because of the situation.
You know, last days, a poll was showing that Italians were convinced that Russians and Chinese were helping them more than French and German. That is
not true.
Russian and Chinese, even the Americans are helping Italy with million euros. The rest of Europe is helping Italy with billion euros. It is
completely different.
So, I think it is very important now to have that quick and effective response and we build Europe through a crisis and this crisis can help
Europe to be more effective and to show solidarity, also to be for the first time -- to have for the first time a social Europe.
And it is not by chance that this is happening three months after Brexit. Because the U.K. was the anti-social Europe with Margaret Thatcher.
But to veto against Jacques Delors and the rest of European leaders, and now first time there's his response in terms of social Europe with this
plan sure on employment, and the ESM on healthcare and sanitary furnitures.
It's, I think a big, big step for the European Union and for the future, too.
QUEST: Good to have you, sir. Very grateful and you're just like yourself, remember Margaret Thatcher and that that law from Jacques Delors. Thank
you, sir. I appreciate it.
It is QUEST MEANS BUSINESS at the end of a busy week.
In a moment, the houses of worship in the United States, Donald Trump is saying to governors open all houses of worship this weekend.
The former C.D.C. Director will be with us to talk about that, after the break.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[15:31:14]
QUEST: Hello. I'm Richard Quest as more QUEST MEANS BUSINESS for you in just a moment. The former CDC director will be talking about the
President's plan to open churches and houses of worship in this time. Can you actually do some and do so meaningfully and safely at the same time?
And the CEO of the real estate giant JLL, everybody saying that office spaces won't -- we won't be needing them in the future.
The office has been gone and finished. Well, is that true? But all of that, yeah, we'll have it for you. But not until I've given you the news
headlines because as you know, this is CNN, and on this network, the news always comes first.
(INAUDIBLE) at least 41 people have been killed after a Pakistan International Airlines flight crashed in Karachi in Pakistan. According to
the company's CEO, those numbers coming from -- a local official say there are at least two survivors amongst the reported 99 souls on board. The
plane came down in a busy residential area after the pilot issued a mayday call. Obviously, the cause is under investigation.
A new study has found hydroxychloroquine to be linked to greater risk of death in seriously ill COVID-19 patients. It also caused some patients to
develop irregular heart rhythms. The anti-malarial drug has been publicly touted by President Donald Trump as a preventative treatment in the
(INAUDIBLE) President himself is taking it.
The children of the slain Saudi journalist Jamal Khashoggi have publicly forgiven their father's killers. Their decision which was posted on Twitter
means five government agents convicted in his murder will avoid the death penalty. U.S. intelligence concluded that the Saudi Crown Prince ordered
the murder of Khashoggi who was brutally killed the kingdom's Istanbul consulate in 2018. The authorities -- the Saudi authorities have denied
involvement.
Donald Trump is insisting that houses of worship must be reopened. He says that they are essential to society and that he wants any governor who
restricts this will find problems.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: The governors need to do the right thing and allow these very important essential places of faith to
open right now, for this weekend. If they don't do it, I will override the governors. In America we need more prayer, not less.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
QUEST: Now, since the President spoke, the CDC has come forward with some guidelines, some new guidelines. Let me give you a flavor for them. There
should be soap and hand sanitizer, encouraging the use of cloth masks, clean their facilities daily if they want to open while the virus is still
spreading. Nothing incredibly remarkable about that. Those sorts of requirements are pretty much for any institutions, retail or otherwise,
that requires it.
Now the Memorial Day weekend is this weekend. It's the unofficial start of the summer. You know, they'll say we've settled here often enough. After
Memorial Day you can wear white shoes in the Hamptons. We said it frequently enough well, never mind white shoes. Will people be even going
to the Hamptons and all the favorite holiday destinations in America. Travel is picking up for the first time since March. The TSA says more than
300,000 people was screened on Thursday.
[15:35:01]
QUEST: That's about 10 percent of what would normally be screened around this time. Here is CNN's Kyung Lah.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
BILL DE BLASIO (D), MAYOR OF NEW YORK CITY, NEW YORK: Well, we're about to start a very important weekend.
KYUNG LAH, CNN CORRESPONDENT: The first summer holiday weekend, a major test of America versus the virus as millions head outside.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It is nice to have the option to at least come to the beach and just have some fun with friends for once.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I think it will be very busy and I'm confident that people are going to want to do this in a safe manner because if things
don't work, we may go back to a lockdown situation and I don't think anybody wants that.
LAH: Beaches up and down the east coast will be open with enforced social distancing.
RON WILLIAMS, DEPUTY CITY MANAGER, VIRGINIA BEACH: If we don't get voluntarily compliance to a beach ambassador, then they will ask for law
enforcement to come and actually enforce the governor's executive orders for the distancing.
LAH: But different rules depending on where you are.
DERRICK HENRY (D), MAYOR OF DAYTONA BEACH, FLORIDA: (INAUDIBLE) I don't think it is realistic or practical to ask people to go to the beach and
wear a mask.
LAH: While America dives ahead, data shows this week more states are heading in the wrong direction. In the weekly average of new cases, nine
states, here in green, are down. 24 states are steady and 17 states in red and orange, are up. And 25,000 new cases in the U.S. added just yesterday.
Among the steepest climbs, Arkansas. The state saw a 65 percent increase in the rate of new cases compared to a week ago. The state still opening water
parks and pools today with restrictions.
In nearby Alabama, crowds packed beaches today, despite warnings that more cases would stress an already stretched Montgomery hospital system where
ICU beds run short.
DR. JEANNE MARRAZZO, DIRECTOR, DIVISION OF INFECTIOUS DISEASES, SCHOOL OF MEDICINE UNIVERSITY OF ALABAMA AT BIRMINGHAM: I'm quite worried with the
Memorial Day weekend coming and the restrictions loosening that this is going to go like a prairie fire. Again, it's been smoldering. We've had a
lid on it. But now it really has the potential to get out of control.
LAH: Trying to control a crisis in Navajo nation, home to the highest per capita infection rate in the country, the territory will order a 57-hour
lockdown starting tonight.
In Texas, bars are open for the holiday weekend. But in California, far slower movement. Despite improvement in some cities, the first day to order
a statewide shutdown is now seeing a rate of new cases at twice what it was at the start of April.
This ominous image at L.A.'s Dodgers Stadium shows the strain on California tourism. These are unused rental cars. So many the empty ballpark lot is
now storage.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
QUEST: Richard Besser is with me. President and CEO of Robert Wood Johnson Foundation and a former Acting Director of the CDC. Doctor, good to have
you. Look, isn't the world reality here that the United States has decided to accept a certain higher level, we don't know what that will reach of
viruses and death as a result. I'm provided it doesn't become egregious and out of control that will live with that for the future.
RICHARD BESSER, CHIEF EXECUTIVE OFFICER, ROBERT WOOD JOHNSON FOUNDATION: Well, you know, if you look at polling data, I don't think the public is in
that camp. I think that people are on board with trying to open up the economy, get people back to work, where it can be done slowly, safely with
the best public health guides. And so, you know, it's very important that localities follow the recommendations of public health and not reopen the
economy when there's not enough room in the hospitals to take care of COVID patients or patients with other medical conditions.
QUEST: The horses bolted, the stable door isn't even locked now. The pictures are showing that people are not following the regulations. And I
don't believe it will be easy or possible for any governor other than maybe New York and California to impose a lockdown again.
BESSER: Yes. You know, that's one of the big challenges, is that you don't want to do things that will put you into a situation that's worse than then
things are currently or worse than they were when things were really bad in places like New York a month ago. Some of the move towards outdoor
activities as we've learned more, some of those activities can be done safely. You want to make sure that they're still so social distancing of
six feet and wearing masks.
But getting out in fresh air is good for emotional health, for mental health or physical health. But you need to do it in a way that's safe and
following those rules is absolutely essential.
QUEST: Doctor, are you seeing -- what are you seeing in the current statistics in the United States that is giving you cause for concern?
[15:40:07]
BESSER: Well, you know, there's -- there are things that are giving me cause for hope and things that give me cause for concern. And one thing
about pandemics, especially in a nation, the size of ours is that what's taking place in one place is not what's happening in another. And so, you
need data, and we're not getting all the data, we need to be able to tell where things really bad, who's getting hit hard.
Why are black Americans, Latino Americans, Native Americans getting hit so hard? And what can you do to deal with that? But when you look at some of
the data that CDC has out, looking at visits to emergency rooms for flu- like illness, that's been going down for quite a number of weeks and that's a positive sign. When you look at the rate of hospitalization and the rate
of death that's been going down nationwide, that's a positive sign.
But you can't look at the nation from that level. That's like looking at agriculture from 30,000 feet to figure out which fields are dry. You have
to get down on the ground and figure out, okay, which places can open up some things carefully and slowly and what which place is not at all?
QUEST: And if we take, for example, the old question of quarantine earlier in the program, we're talking about how the U.K. is going to put in place a
14-day quarantine for those coming into the country and our colleagues working in Asia have to stay in a hotel overnight while they are tested.
Would you be in favor of the United States maintaining its 14-day -- at the moment it's a total ban but introducing some form of 14-day quarantine for
people coming into the country?
BESSER: Well, you know, I think that that is missing the big challenge in the U.S. right now when it comes to isolation and quarantine. There's a
sense that the threat is coming from outside the country. But right now when people are tested and identified as being infected or when someone's
identifying as potentially having contact with someone who had or has a COVID infection and they're told to isolate or quarantine, they're not
provided with a safe place to do that like they are in many other countries.
People are told to go home, use their own room, their own bathroom. Well, for millions and millions of people who live in crowded housing or live
with elderly relatives or live with people who have medical conditions. What you're saying is go home and share it with somebody else. They're
going to get sick and that's just wrong. The idea that you can stop this by border control is just is -- just off target in a major way.
QUEST: Good to talk to you, sir. I appreciate it. Thank you. Well, you have watched WFH, working from home, new reality. You'll know that with one of
the last things we talked about is whether we will all be working from home. Twitter says it expects people to work from home forever. Facebook
says it doesn't mind. That will cause us crisis of course, for the real estate industry, in a moment.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[15:45:44]
QUEST: Facebook says it is preparing for up to 50 percent of its workforce to work from home in the future. And therefore, starting in cities in their
existing offices Portland and San Diego on the West Coast, Philadelphia and Pittsburgh in the East are planning on entirely new hubs, for example,
Atlanta, Dallas and Denver where pay could be scaled to the cost of living.
For commercial real estate companies like JLL, this could be -- it's a sea change. It could be devastating in some way as. The CEO Christian Ulbrich
is in Frankfort. What are you realistically preparing for bearing in mind what everybody's talking about and the many more people could be working from home?
CHRISTIAN ULBRICH, CHIEF EXECUTIVE OFFICER, JLL: Hey, Richard, good evening. Well, you know, at the moment we are in the middle of the
pandemic, and we are trying to help our clients to keep the employees safe and well. And whether after that pandemic, there will be a massive
reduction in the need of their workspace in offices is still very much an open question. I would always recommend that we are listening to our
employees and ask them.
And all the surveys we are doing amongst our employees but also amongst our clients employees shows that in the high 80s they respond that they would
like to get back into an office on a regular basis. So I'm pretty confident that at the moment that on that topic is a little bit overstated.
QUEST: So this idea that somehow large companies are going to be handing back and offices space that they've already got, or perhaps more likely,
not renewing leases and having large -- lower requirements in the future. Do you think a year or two after this pandemic -- we'll have all forgotten
about that part and we'll all be back in the office?
ULBRICH: You know, well, it will depend on the individual company and there may be some who will use their office footprint, but others will have to
enlarge their office footprint because we will have more space per employee going forward, not only because of social distancing now but longer term,
people want to have a little bit more space around them. And so, we have, at the moment quite a lot of companies who are asking us to actually
enlarge their office footprint.
And others will probably stay on the same level and if you will reduce it, but overall, for the time being, I would reckon that it based out that
there is not much change in the need going forward.
QUEST: How difficult is it to convert these spaces to give people more space? After seeing what salesforce was doing for example, creating big
circles, just to show a six-foot spread elevators that were already hard pressed for -- in demand. Now, of course, fewer people in them. Is it -- is
it a Herculean task to alter existing real estate to accommodate COVID way of life?
ULBRICH: Well, in the short term as we still have to practice social distancing until we have a vaccine, it is actually challenging to get all
the employees into the office. So what we will see is a mix of people working from home and people coming to the office. In our own offices which
we have reopened, we can see that we have roughly 50 percent of the occupancy levels which we had before.
But it depends very much as you already alluded to, whether we are talking about high rise buildings was very busy valid elevators or spacious office
parks was low raise buildings where you can use the staircases. And so, obviously a high rise building in Manhattan is more difficult to convert
into a COVID-19 situation than other buildings. But you know, this is short term longer term when we have a vaccine, those issues will not be there
anymore.
QUEST: When we have a vaccine and when that might be. Good to talk to you, sir.
[15:50:00]
QUEST: Have a lovely weekend. And thank you. The weather is beautiful in Europe at the moment. So enjoy if you can. The issue of course of
traveling, how to stay healthy. We know we're going to travel again but after the break Sanjay Gupta will show us exactly how we can do it.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
QUEST: On this program we have continually told you about countries that are opening up, airlines that are planning to restart routes and we're now
starting to see the evidence. Here in the United States for example, the TSA which is the main security organization says that the number of people
going through security checkpoints is at among high. So it's clearly starting to happen. However, the one overriding issue is how do you travel
and do so safely. CNN Sanjay Gupta -- Dr. Sanjay Gupta. It gives us some ideas.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
SANJAY GUPTA, CNN CHIEF MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: Things are going to feel a lot different the next time you go to the airport. First of all, it'll be
less crowded, that's for sure. Certain precautions are in place like Plexiglass at the counters telling people to keep their distance when
they're in line. Let's go see what security is like.
Traveling in the age of coronavirus is all about averting risk. For airports, like here at Hartsfield Jackson and Atlanta, which is the world's
busiest, it's about focusing and keeping things clean and distanced.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And, once again, thank you for the spacing.
GUPTA: For travelers, it's about masks and touching as few things as possible, whether at check-in. Don't forget to put your boarding pass on
your phone ahead of time, less surfaces to touch.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Good morning, sir.
GUPTA: We're going through security.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Okay. Put that into the machine, sir.
GUPTA: One thing to keep in mind, try and count how many surfaces you touch throughout the whole process.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I need everything out of your pockets, please.
GUPTA: One study found that the biggest germ hotspots for respiratory viruses in the entire airport, these security bins.
One thing I do want to show you is how I pack nowadays. I've got my hand sanitizer. So this is when I do a little hand sanitizer, put that back in,
make sure everything is back in the bag and I could be on my way. Constantly washed the hands.
Also, look, they're cleaning the bins back there. That's a good idea.
One of the big concerns is always going to be those sorts of train rides. Right now, things aren't that crowded. But as airports start to pick up,
you may want to allow extra time so that you can walk to the concourse instead of ride.
Bill Lentsch is one of the few people who has kept flying.
How do you quantify that for somebody who says, look, I don't know if I should fly or not right now, I'm not -- I'm not sure if the risk and the
reward balance makes sense?
BILL LENTSCH, CHIEF CUSTOMER EXPERIENCE OFFICER, DELTA: It might feel a little awkward the first time you get on board an airplane to see only 60
percent load factors, all the middle seats blocked, everyone wearing a mask. But after a while, that becomes very comfortable.
[15:55:05]
GUPTA: Delta is not the only one. Other major carriers are doing similar. Road Warrior Brian Kelly, you may know him better as The Points Guy,
doesn't think social distancing in the sky is going to be permanent.
BRIAN KELLY, FOUNDER, THE POINTS GUY: Financially, it's just not possible. And I don't believe it's good for consumers to do that because we're going
to pay for the cost of all of those empty seats.
GUPTA: In a statement, the International Air Transport Association said that while they support the use of masks by passengers and crew, they don't
support mandating social distancing measures that would leave middle seats empty. To reduce risk, many airlines like Delta are wiping down more
frequently and misting the entire planes with disinfectant.
Everyone is going to decide whether or not it makes sense to fly. It's the sort of risk/reward proposition. One thing I'll tell you is that separating
yourselves out, obviously important. That's the distance. But think about the duration. Shorter flights are obviously going to be better as well.
One thing you'll see here at Delta is that they are boarding from the back of a plane first, ten people at a time, we hear.
Now, when you get to your row, a couple things to keep in mind. Try and touch as few surfaces as possible. When I sit down, I'm actually going to
try and choose a window seat. And the reason being, that I'll just have less contact with people who are walking by the aisle.
Here is another tip. You open this, which is called the air gasper, and you turn it up as high as you can and feel the air there right in front of you.
That's going to cause some turbulent air flow in front of you and possibly break up any clouds of virus. It's a small tip. It might make a difference,
easy to do, could be worth it.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
QUEST: (INAUDIBLE) But how that's what you call news. We can all use especially those of us who are on the road so much. I still prefer an aisle
seat. I think that might just be a risk I'm going to have to take. Profitable moment after the break.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
QUEST: So we come to the end of another week. Very good to have you with us as we've been going through all the difficulties of this, that's in the
others of the way things are going. Summer starts officially in the United States. This weekend it is Memorial Day, as I say white shirts in Hampton
not the only we'll be going to the Hamptons. Well, maybe they will. We just don't know how this summer is going to play out. But it gives me a chance
to say have a good weekend.
Try and have a rest, try and enjoy it. And as always, whatever you're up to in the weekend ahead, gardening, whatever it might be. I hope it's
profitable. There's a bit of the closing bell. Dana Bash is with the lead in just a moment.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
END
