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Quest Means Business

New Data Showing Oxford Vaccine Is Safe And Seems To Be Working; France, Hong Kong And Walmart Mandate Mask Wearing; E.U. Leaders Consider New Recovery Fund Proposal. Aired 3-4p ET

Aired July 20, 2020 - 15:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[15:00:24]

RICHARD QUEST, CNN BUSINESS ANCHOR, QUEST MEANS BUSINESS: Sixty minutes before the close of business on Wall Street. Start of a new week together.

The markets are going pretty much nowhere at the moment. There's a lot for them to digest. And it's a sort of wait and see day.

But interestingly, what started down has pulled back up, so likely that will end positive at the end of the day. And the reasons why, new data

showing Oxford vaccine is safe and seems to be working. You'll hear from the head of its vaccine team on his program tonight.

Day four of a two-day Summit for Europe leaders who are inching towards a greener recovery fund deal, but it's not done yet.

And from Walmart to Western Europe, several mandatory mask orders are now in effect.

Live from London. It is Monday. It is July the 20th. I am Richard Quest, and I mean business.

Good evening. Oxford says its vaccine is safe and it is working. It provides their first major cautious hope in the pandemic, the first

reviewed results that have come out that are published today.

Oxford and AstraZeneca says that their vaccine provides immunity, has no serious side effects, importantly, it is now in Phase 3 with larger scale

trials. It needs more research and it's unclear how long any protection this vaccine will give.

However, you can see the importance of it. There's now more than 600,000 deaths that have happened globally. The state of play for the global

vaccine, there are now several front runners, Oxford is one of them.

Three drugs are in Phase 3. It's the final phase before approval. Oxford and Astra join Sinopharm and Sinovac. There are 12 companies in Phase 2.

Today, we can see now it is showing immune response in human trials and Pfizer, Moderna entering Phase 3 soon. Eighteen more are in Phase 1. You

got an idea. Just look at that.

So Phase 3, which is the biggie in the sense. With me is Anna Stewart who is in Oxford. So, what does this mean? They're at this stage. What is it

actually they've told us works.

ANNA STEWART, CNN REPORTER: Yes, so what they've told us is that with their Phase 1 and Phase 2, they combine those phases to really speed up the

process, they can prove that it is safe.

There are some side effects like fatigue and chills, like many of the other ones who have already published Phase 1, but nothing adverse, nothing

serious, nothing dangerous. They have shown that neutralizing antibodies were present in 91 percent of patients after one month in all of them.

If they got a second dose, they did a subset group that had two doses of 10 people, all of them had neutralizing antibodies after a month and all of

the people tested had T-cell immunity, which is also very important. T- cells, we are increasing the understanding may have much longer lasting immunity compared to the antibody response.

So that's all good news, Richard.

The last good news if you are an analyst, and if you're trying to compare it, it's very difficult to do so because this is a different kind of

vaccine to many of the other ones we've been talking about, different to a whole virus vaccine from a DNA one to this one, which is a viral vaccine.

But if you do try and compare them, the slight difference here is that perhaps the antibody response you're seeing here in Phase 1 and Phase 2 is

a similar level to a convalescent patient, someone who had COVID-19 and has recovered, whereas some of the other vaccines seem to be creating a much

higher level of antibody response.

So that is something that analysts are a little bit concerned about, but overall very promising news.

QUEST: Okay, so they're in Phase 3. What happens -- what do they still have to do? I mean, what is the purpose now of the further testing?

STEWART: Well, Phase 1 and Phase 2, we're looking very much as a sort of test tube analysis, Richard. Phase 3 where you're looking at 10,000 people

at the moment, and they'll spread that out much further with the U.S. soon, but currently in the U.K. and Brazil and South Africa, they're testing a

much wider demographic.

So people of all ages, older people, younger people, they're looking for those rare dangerous side effects that you may get, you know, one in

however many thousands, and you're also crucially looking at what the immunity is against the actual virus, not just combining things in test

tubes. Do people that have this vaccine go on to catch COVID-19?

QUEST: Which begs -- I mean, that's a core bit and that -- I mean, they know it sort of works in theory. They know it won't kill you, at least at

the moment, but they don't know whether it actually works as a vaccine when face-to-face with the virus. When will they know that?

[15:05:44]

STEWART: Well, I guess if we look at when they think the absolute earliest is that they could produce the vaccine and distribute it, they are already

kind of making them at the moment, they said September, Richard, but that was a while ago.

And today, when asked in the press conference, the CEO of AstraZeneca said, it could still be September, but you'd like to think it's more like

September to November would be the first time.

Why has that been pushed back? Well, Phase 3, the first when they started was here in the U.K. and the infection rate for coronavirus dropped very

quickly due to social distancing. It was a success. But of course, it's then much harder to test the virus in Phase 3 in real terms.

That is where Brazil and South Africa come in. They are slightly later down the stage of Phase 3, but that is what you need to know. But the absolute

earliest, you could see this vaccine on the market if everything went well, if it gets regulatory approval, September is the earliest.

QUEST: Well, that's still pretty quick. Anna Stewart in Oxford who has been following that story. And later in the program, the head of Oxford's

vaccine program who did all the work on this, the professor involved will be with me. That's just about in 25 minutes from now.

And so, whilst we wait for a vaccine, it really is all about masks and social distancing. Whist President Trump and his Surgeon General have ruled

out a national mask mandate in the United States, other governments, and particularly other companies are not being so reticent by a half. In fact,

they're cracking down.

France now has a new law requiring masks in all indoor spaces. There is a penalty of $150.00 if you break it. In Hong Kong, mask wearing is now

mandatory in public. Hong Kongers seeing record daily infections. In the United States, Walmart is requiring masks from today.

Every country seems to have a variation and a twist on the mask-wearing mandate, but they do have one thing in common. As the situation has got

worse, so more governments have decided masks are the answer.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

ELENI GIOKOS, CNN BUSINESS AFRICA CORRESPONDENT: I am Eleni Giokos in Johannesburg and here in South Africa, if you walk outside without a mask,

you'll not only get a disapproving look, but it's also mandatory.

So whether you're walking in the streets going back to school, or in a mall like this one, you have to wear a face mask and you're reminded of it by

these signs: social distancing, sanitizing, and even stores controlling the number of people that are allowed to enter at any one time.

Now when you enter a store, you're greeted with a spray of sanitizer, and you have to be wearing a mask, else, you're asked to leave.

Now, legal action can be taken against you if you don't adhere to this rule, but government is now considering taking legal action against store

owners and managers as well as taxi drivers that allow people on the premises without a mask. They could face jail time, and even a fine.

Now South Africans have largely been adhering to this rule as we head into the peak. We've currently got over 320,000 cases of COVID-19 in the

country.

As for the President, he happily wears a mask in public, even before live broadcasts, driving the message home.

MATT RIVERS, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: I am Matt Rivers in Mexico City, which has begun to reopen in earnest. Places like restaurants,

hotels, shopping malls, markets all allowed to reopen, though there are some restrictions.

For example, all of those places have capacity restrictions and many places, as you can see are required to take temperatures and also give out

hand sanitizer upon entry.

And a lot of places are also taking additional measures. A lot of businesses are putting pads like this one with a bleach mixture in there

that you have to step on before you walk inside.

But perhaps most importantly, is that any business that wants to reopen is required to have their customers wear masks. It's mandated citywide, which

can go a long way when you're talking about being in Mexico City, the hardest hit area of the entire country.

And you know, having been all over this massive city recently, I can tell you that mask wearing, it's just not the political issue that we're seeing

in other places like the U.S.

There is just no major movement against masks here. People have largely adopted them as a part of this new normal that we're all in and that is a

good thing because the outbreak here in Mexico has shown no major signs of slowing down.

Matt Rivers, CNN, Mexico City.

[15:10:13]

WILL RIPLEY, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: I am Will Ripley in Central Hong Kong. This is a very busy retail and business district, and you can

see, it's pretty much business as usual.

But one thing you will notice whenever you step outside here in Hong Kong, pretty much everybody is wearing a mask. It's hard to find somebody who is

not.

You can get a fine if you're not wearing a mask in public transportation and they're expanding those requirements, possibly to include other areas

around town. But there are other precautions that businesses are taking to keep people safe in this city, which is seeing its biggest spike in cases

to date.

Every time you walk into a business -- thank you very much -- you get a temperature check, and there's also hand sanitizer at the door. And these

are the businesses, retail, for example that they're allowed to stay open.

There are a lot that are closed right now, like restaurants after 6:00 p.m. for dine-in service. Bars are closed. Gyms are closed. Even Hong Kong

Disneyland, all in attempt to keep the crowd small and keep the virus from spreading even more in this city.

They're also upping testing, 10,000 people on average being tested for a day here in Hong Kong as they try to locate and isolate these COVID-19

cases and keep the outbreak from really spreading out of control in this densely populated city.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

QUEST: That's Will Ripley in Hong Kong. It is an economic issue in the sense of wearing the proverbial mask. Goldman Sachs came out with a piece

of research, which says that wearing the mask can actually improve GDP by about five percent because if you don't wear the mask, then eventually the

virus takes over again, and you have to shut down the economy.

So a five percent benefit wearing a mask, according to Goldman Sachs.

Health organizations around the world have continually updated their advice on masks. So for instance, in February, the U.S. Surgeon General urged

people -- this is back in February -- urged people to stop wearing masks saying that they weren't effective for public use.

In March, the C.D.C. and the World Health Organization said masks should be reserved for healthcare workers and sick people only.

In April, the C.D.C. recommended non-medical cloths covering on a voluntary basis. And in June, they told us that people should wear masks where they

cannot socially distance which brings me elegantly to Dr. Leana Wen, the emergency physician and public health professor at George Washington

University. She's with me now via Skype.

Let's clear this up once and for all. Where does the science rest on this? Does wearing a mask actually significantly reduce infection?

DR. LEANA WEN, FORMER HEALTH COMMISSIONER FOR THE CITY OF BALTIMORE (via Skype): Yes, it does, Richard. Absolutely. Although, I will say that the

guidance has changed because the science has changed.

Back in January-February, we didn't know as much as we do now, for example about asymptomatic transmission, that now we know up to 50 percent of cases

of COVID-19 are transmitted by people who are not showing any symptoms at all.

We also now know about aerosol transmission that is not just sick people who are coughing and sneezing and transmitting through respiratory

droplets, it's also now these microscopic droplets that you just expel by breathing and speaking.

So that's why it is that we need to be wearing masks. It protects ourselves. It protects one another. A recent "Lancet" study actually found

that if we all wear mass, it reduces the transmission of COVID-19 by up to five times.

So think about like a medication that if we took a pill that could reduce the risk of us getting COVID by five times, we would all take it.

QUEST: Doctor, we are seeing numbers. You just heard those reports. We are seeing numbers rise pretty much everywhere where there's a lockdown. The

reality is, we can't keep economies locked down. That it is simply not possible. We'd end up with economic catastrophe.

So, are we just resigned to these rising numbers, wearing a mask may knock it down a bit. But actually, this virus is just going to be playing chicken

with us for a long time.

WEN: Well, I think the best way to look at it is that this is a very contagious virus, it is going to spread from person to person when given

the opportunity. The key is we have to suppress the level of infection low enough in the community, and also ramp up enough of the testing, contact

tracing other public health infrastructure so that we can rein in the infection.

So we do have to follow these interventions like wearing a mask, washing our hands, keeping physical distancing.

QUEST: But even if we do all of that -- even if we do all of that, if we open our economies, which we are -- we are a business program here, so we

talk about these things in hard terms, even if we do the masks and the social distancing -- all of these other things, will we bring the virus

sufficiently under control?

[15:15:17]

WEN: Yes, we can, and this is why I'm glad to be speaking to you here, because so often public health is somehow framed as the enemy of the

economy, when actually public health is the roadmap back.

We need to be able to keep the virus under control, have the public health infrastructure to do so, all of us doing our part with something as simple

as wearing masks. And if we do that, that's what's going to allow people to come back to work safely. That's what's going to allow schools to reopen.

And so we need to look at this as we're doing it hand in hand with basic public health measures.

QUEST: Doctor, you may find this next question, well, a little almost offensive, but you know what I mean. When the President of Brazil says

people are going to die, that's just the way it is. Will we come to a -- will we come to a point where that is the choice we have to make? We cannot

keep economies locked down. It's simply not possible if we wish to keep civil society and we wish to keep society in any form of structure. Do we

need to accept people will die?

WEN: People will die because of COVID-19, but the question is, how many deaths are we willing to accept? If we know that there are simple measures

that actually allow the economy to come back sooner, but also prevent death in the process, shouldn't we be doing that?

There are a lot of effects -- economic downsides to reopening and are shutting down, reopening and are shutting down -- why not do it right and

get the capabilities, the testing and tracing up and running? That's what countries for example, many European Union countries have been able to do

this successfully. Why can't U.S., Brazil and others follow the footsteps of what's already been effective?

QUEST: Doctor, good to have you. Thank you. Good to have you talking about it. We will talk more about this.

WEN: Thank you.

QUEST: Appreciate it. The doctor said that the European Union has been successful in keeping the virus under control. They've been dramatically

less successful in agreeing the recovery plan to help see through the economic downfall.

After the break, they are on to Day Four of a Summit that was supposed to last two, and still no results. In a moment.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[15:20:15]

QUEST: The Summit should have lasted two days, it's been going four so far, and only today was another proposal from the European Council

President designed to break the budget deadlock.

It's the North versus the South in the recovery fund for the European Union. The frugal Four in the North seem to have received some concessions

from the Commission and from the southern countries.

The amounts of the grants and the loans have been rebalanced, and the conditions on the grounds have been loosened.

David Herszenhorn is the chief Brussels correspondent for POLITICO joins me now. So this is really pretty fundamental stuff that at this stage in the

pandemic and in this desperate economic needs that they are arguing over this stuff.

DAVID HERSZENHORN, CHIEF BRUSSELS CORRESPONDENT, POLITICO: Well, Richard, you have to understand that there is quite a lot they've already done. I

think the E.U. has made hundreds of billions available in various ways. But here, what they've got is this new recovery initiative. It's actually

bolted to their long term budget plan.

When the pandemic hit, they were in the process of negotiating this budget more than one trillion euros over seven years, and so they need to figure a

way to get that back on track and build into it recovery measures for the pandemic and the economic shock.

QUEST: Why is Mark Rutte, the Dutch Prime Minister, why is he being so difficult about this? I mean, he has obviously -- he barely got reelected

last time. Is it just his own domestic politics?

HERSZENHORN: Richard that's exactly why he barely got elected, and he's got to show his voters that he can bring home the bacon and he is some

negotiator.

As we can see from this new proposal that Charles Michel has put out, the Netherlands score some big, big victories. The Netherlands and the other

frugal countries get rebates on the overall budget payments that they make to cap those payments. Those rebates now soar under the new proposal that

Michel has put forward.

There's also an increase in the amount of customs duties that countries can keep in their own budgets, and of course, the Netherlands operate some of

the E.U.'s biggest ports. That's another big victory for the Netherlands. So, that's why Rutte has been so tough.

QUEST: Right, but Macron said to him, you may be a hero at home, but in a year or two, they will be asking what you did to help destroy the union.

Viktor Orban for different reasons, law and justice along in Poland, he is accusing these northern countries of wanting to impose -- it seems to me

that the fractures in this supposedly united family are as deep as ever.

HERSZENHORN: In fact, Richard, they're going to get this deal and once they've got this deal, they'll all breathe a sigh of relief. So will the

financial markets.

Christine Lagarde, the President of the European Central Bank warned everybody, look, this should take time. It's okay if they go slow, as long

as they get an ambitious package. And at the end of the day, it's still a 750 billion euro recovery initiative, financed by an unprecedented amount

of joint debt.

The E.U. has never done this at this scale, borrowing together, you might see the U.S. Treasury issuing debt. That's extraordinary. It's a big step

forward for those who favor fiscal institutions. So that folks like Macron will be able to claim some victory at the same time, Rutte, and those

frugals will go back and say they fought a hard battle that within that package was able to get their national interest met, still with a giant

amount of money that's available to fight this pandemic and the economic shock.

QUEST: We'll talk more about this. Thank you, sir. I appreciate it. Thank you.

The European markets, they finished mix on the course of the day. The FTSE was down around half of one percent. AstraZeneca, though, was a gainer. It

gained more than one percent. The others were higher.

Philips earnings beat expectations. It was expecting a rebound in the second half of 2020. Medical supplies of course, and the intensive care

unit and the ventilators all helped the company of course hold up its own.

Chief executive Frans Van Houten is in Amsterdam. Good to have you. When we talked last time, you were preparing for what was going to be the difficult

quarters. But your company is one of those that is you all uniquely positioned that you were hit, but not hit as hard because of the things

that you make.

FRANS VAN HOUTEN, CEO, PHILIPS: That's right, it feels a bit double. I mean, we were hit and our revenue declined six percent, but that was less

than many people had expected. We were able to record 27 percent order growth and our products for diagnosis, acute care, monitors, ventilators

but also telehealth and informatics to enable doctors to work remotely and to manage patients in a better way through Cloud technology and AI is all

working very, very well indeed.

[15:25:19]

QUEST: You're making 4,000 ventilators a week. I wonder -- I mean, bearing in mind, for example, New York did not need as many ventilators and other

places in Europe now have a surfeit of ventilators. Is there the same requirement for these sorts of machines?

VAN HOUTEN: We are still getting orders in from countries that don't have enough ventilators and I think the society was not really prepared for this

pandemic, not even a year ago, you know, the demand was 400 a week and now we are at 4,000 a week and we have a huge backlog with care providers.

Ministries of Health having to provide more services to the people of their nation. So think about the emerging countries, for example, where there is

great need for more equipment.

QUEST: The technologies you referred to at the beginning of the interview, the remote doctors, the highly technical, intensive care, the lung and

cardiac machinery that you're designing and working on, how much of you as the CEO have decided, all right, we're going to put the R&D. We're going to

spend what's necessary now.

VAN HOUTEN: Philips is massively investing in innovation, about 10 percent of revenue, and we are betting on the future of Cloud technology, enabling

doctors to remotely engage with patients.

Think about all the cardiovascular patients who didn't dare to go to the hospital for fear of infection and through telehealth, actually, doctors

can engage with those patients that are in need.

We won a big contract with the U.S. Veterans Affair Administration to expand in the next 10 years telehealth to enable vets to be reached where

they live, and also to enhance the virtual ICU to also protect medical staff for not being exposed to infection.

So I think it's a great way to reinvent the way healthcare is being delivered through technology.

QUEST: Finally, why did you -- why did you complete the share buyback program? I realize that you're not in one of those situations of taking

government money and therefore restricted by this, that or the other.

But I noticed in the announcements today, you executed the second half of the buyback program to forward transactions. Why?

VAN HOUTEN: Well, we basically locked in the share price of this year while taking deliveries next year. So it is not a drain on our cash

position. We have confidence in our stock by making forward transactions. It's just a good way and a responsible way to reduce the share count while

not touching our liquidity in short term

QUEST: Thank you for joining us, Sir France. It is always good. Speak to you next quarter, when we're able to get a much better -- we're going to

get a much better idea of how things are trading once the immediate crisis, please God, has subsided. Thank you, sir.

In a moment, Oxford University announced that its vaccine with AstraZeneca, it works and there are no dangerous side effects. The head of the Oxford

University vaccine program is with me after the break.

It's QUEST MEANS BUSINESS. Hello.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[15:30:00]

QUEST: Hello, I'm Richard Quest. There's a lot more QUEST MEANS BUSINESS in just a moment, when I'll be speaking to the head of the Oxford University

vaccine trial. We'll bring us up to date on exactly what they've done and what happens next. And the WHO is worried about accelerating cases in

Africa. We'll be talking to Rwanda to see exactly why the country has been so successful, and what we can learn from the way they've handled the

coronavirus pandemic. All of that comes after we've updated you with the news headlines because this is CNN. And on this network, the news always

comes first.

As returning to total lockdown as previously planned, but surge in cases in the country's two largest cities have added an extra degree of urgency.

Venezuela reported a fifth of its total number of COVID-19 infections in the last week alone. The U.K. suspended its extradition treaty with Hong

Kong. The British Foreign Secretary says Beijing took away judicial safeguards with this new security law. U.K. also says its arms embargo on

China will be extended to Hong Kong, as well. A new CNN Poll of Polls says, yes, voters nationwide favor Joe Biden over President Trump by a 12-point

margin. The poll shows 52 percent of registered voters back the presumptive Democratic nominee compared to 40 percent for Mr. Trump. Many issue -- many

voters named Coronavirus as their top issue.

While we are all celebrating and almost popped the champagne corks, those at Oxford University involved with the vaccine trials say more research and

studying needs to be done before we can call it game over. Professor Adrian Hill is with me. He is the director of Oxford University's Jenner

Institute. And I'm sure you're going to rightly remind me out of the gate that more work does need to be done. But the results of the tests so far,

in my layman's terms, correct me. One, it seems to work. And two, it doesn't seem to do any dramatic, dangerous damage.

ADRIAN HILL, DIRECTOR, JENNER INSTITUTE AT OXFORD UNIVERSITY: Well, we've learned two things today in the report that we published in The Lancet. The

first is that, yes, in the first thousand or so vaccinees in this trial, the safety profile has been pretty good and reassuring. And we've now seen

no significant concerns. What's harder to judge is the immune response that we've seen to the vaccine. It does look pretty good. We're stimulating both

arms of the human immune system. But from that alone, we can't guarantee that the vaccine will work. And of course, we have to show that before we

can license it, before we can deploy it, before we can save lives with it. So, certainly, a step forward today good safety, promising immune

responses, but we've yet to see efficacy itself.

[0:00:16]

QUEST: So, how do you test efficacy? Assuming you have those who have been given placebos, and you've got those who've been given the right -- the

actual vaccine, but how do you test whether or not they have caught or would have caught? I mean, you don't know when they've been in contact with

it. What's the -- how did you do that?

HILL: We recruit 10,000 people. We've just about done that. We vaccinate half of them with the COVID vaccine, half with an irrelevant vaccine for

another disease, and we follow them for weeks or months. Hopefully, we won't need to do that for years. And we count the number of cases in those

given the vaccine and those given the control. And hopefully, there are far fewer cases in those who have been vaccinated. We started doing this at the

end of May. And we are still following those individuals and may have to do so for another couple of months or a few months to see whether we get a

result. Because as you know, the incidence of COVID is declining in the U.K., which makes it harder to get a trial result very quickly.

QUEST: Right. So, I assume you hoof it on a plane to places unfortunately like India, South Africa, Brazil, where those whom you vaccinate, pardon,

the awfulness of it, stand a better chance of perhaps coming into contact with it and getting it or not.

HILL: Absolutely right. So, we've already started vaccinating in Brazil, in South Africa, as well. And the next country in the next few weeks, we hope,

will be the United States. So, between those three countries over 40 -- about 40,000 more people will be vaccinated. So, by the end of the year,

we'll have had about 50,000 subjects in clinical trials. And with a fare wind, should have an efficacy result. Hopefully, some months before that.

QUEST: Right. Now, in my sort of relatively simplistic thinking, I've always -- I've thought of this as a race, who gets there first? Winner

takes all. But listen to what the Moderna Chairman was saying about how it's not a case of winner takes all. The world needs lots of vaccines.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

NOUBAR AFEYAN, CHAIRMAN, MODERNA: We're in the camp of believing that multiple vaccines is what humanity needs to fight this disease, because

none of the parties that despite announcements are actually going to be able to produce the quantities needed for the challenge that we're facing.

And so, the best way to get there is to have multiple approaches and the vaccine to get out as quickly as possible to those who need it.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

QUEST: So, Professor, it's -- you need lots of vaccine, obviously, you hope to be the first. And with AstraZeneca, you'll be able to produce a lot of

them, but you're learning from your competitors.

HILL: We're all learning from each other. None of us knows yet just what quality and quantity of immune response will be required. But we do know

that given 7-1/2 billion people or more on the planet, most of whom are going to want a vaccination, we suspect. That no single company can do

this. So, we agree with Moderna. We are being ambitious with AstraZeneca aiming for about 2 billion doses over the next year. That's a huge ask. No

vaccine has ever been supplied of a quarter of that amount in any year for any disease.

And these are all new vaccines by definition this year. So, we're reaching for that 2 billion target. We will find out whether we can do that or not.

We will find out first when the vaccine works before we start supplying that, but we completely agree that several companies are needed to do the

heavy lifting and get as many vaccine doses as are needed out the next --

QUEST: Professor, you -- what is your gut feeling tell you? I mean, you know, I sat here every night for months covering this and talking about it,

but you're actually involved in this. What does your gut tell you about when a vaccine will realistically be in wide -- whether it's yours or

somebody else's, it be in widespread distribution, and we can at least say we've got a proper global grip on Coronavirus?

HILL: I think getting a grip on Coronavirus will be next year. Having a vaccine distributed, hopefully, will be before the end of this year. But

remember, distributed is anything from producing a million doses to 2 billion doses.

[15:40:09]

And the sooner we get an efficacy result that is positive, the faster we can scale up. So, I think it's really quite likely that we will know by the

end of this year or maybe even a few months before that, that some vaccine works. Having hundreds of millions of doses immediately afterwards is

unlikely. Millions, certainly. Tens of millions, possibly, but it's going to be a graded response. So, we're going to have to prioritize certain

populations, maybe the older population, maybe people who are first responders. The healthcare --

QUEST: Professor, allow the rest of us to drink the champagne in anticipation. I suspect you are going to wait a little bit longer before

you open your bottle, but know that the -- Godspeed and best wishes from the rest of us go with you, sir. I'm grateful for you taking time tonight.

HILL: Thank you very much.

QUEST: In a moment, alarm over the number of coronavirus cases in Africa. They thought they might have dodged it, but far from it by the latest

numbers. And yet, one country, Rwanda, is starting to reopen international flights and has done an extraordinary job of containing it. What were they

doing? We'll find out after the break. It is QUEST MEANS BUSINESS. Good evening to you.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

QUEST: The World Health Organization now says it is very concerned about the spreading COVID in Africa. Initially, there have been talks that may be

the continent would be spared the worst of it. But as this graphic shows, the latest numbers and the transmission, especially and most of that, by

the way, is in South Africa, shows a steady climb across the continent. And there's fears that that will go even further.

Rwanda is reopening its airport for international flights at the beginning of next month, August the 1st. Joining me now from Kigali is Clare

Akamanzi, the CEO of Rwanda development board, overseeing tourism in the country and industrial development. Claire, it is good to have you. And the

one thing I was reading about Rwanda, it is the way in which you have used previous infections and viruses, HIV, and all the others, because you've

already got the testing in place, and you're able to use this this infrastructure for COVID. Tell me more.

[15:45:11]

CLARE AKAMANZI, CEO, RWANDA DEVELOPMENT BOARD (via Skype): Well, thank you, Richard, and very good to join you today. Well, in Rwanda, we have been

working very hard like many countries to both learn from the science, but as well as learn how to bring the economy back to life, like many countries

have been doing. And for us, what we've been able to do in order to contain the virus, today, we had 1,600 total cases, half of which have recovered

and 5 have died.

And so, we believe that we've had a formula and we keep -- we keep working on that formula to contain the virus. And it's been mainly due to three

things. One, it's been the trust and the partnership that our government has built over the years with the citizens. It's been extremely important

to get the cooperation of the people of Rwanda, the citizens to change their behavior, to abide by the guidelines, social distancing, washing

hands, masks.

And number two, we've also been able to increase our testing capacity using the infrastructure we have in the hospitals across the country. We've built

a contact tracing system of over 1,900 staff, who trace the contacts all over the country. And the last thing that we've also done is increased

testing. We started with a capacity of 300 tests a day. Today, we test between 3,000 and 5,000 people every day.

And so, that those three things have made it very, very important for us to be able to contain the virus and also learning from the infrastructure of

the health system that we built over the years. It's still a modest infrastructure, but it has been improving over the years.

QUEST: All right. Let me --

AKAMANZI: -- really have.

QUEST: Let me jump in here, if I may. The -- that -- that's excellent for Rwanda. But as the rest of Africa's numbers rise, can you prevent

transmission, land border crossings, never mind airports with negative tests, there -- can you actually prevent people coming into the country and

ensuring they don't have COVID?

AKAMANZI: Well, we're opening up our airports on the first of August, as you said, Richard, and we've also had our borders open for Congo. Because

we are a landlocked country. We work with neighboring countries for trucks to move into the country. But what we've done to manage the situation has

been to test at the borders, we build testing capacity with all the borders that we have in the country, we cut trucks from the border to their

destination to make sure that we're able to oversee where the trucks are going and limit movement of truck drivers to the community.

So, that has been important to work with the neighboring countries to put this system in place.

QUEST: You know, listening to you, I'm so impressed at the -- at the level of dedication of the country. I mean, every country is doing something. But

Rwanda, with limited resources, in difficult circumstances, your government has clearly decided this is obviously a priority. And you're going to put

in the money necessary. What more do you need by way of assistance from outside the country?

AKAMANZI: Well, it's work in progress, containing the pandemic is something that we have to keep doing, we have to learn how to live safely with the --

with the virus until a vaccine is available. And so, for us, what is really important is to manage the science part of it, the health part of it, but

also be able to revive the economy. And so, we've put in place an economic recovery fund of $100 million, we want to grow that fund to double, $200

million.

And this fund is supposed to support the private sector and businesses to be able to cushion against the impact of COVID-19. And so, for us,

participating in building this fund to a bigger size and also for private sector and investors all over the world, to come to Rwanda and be able to

support the businesses to grow is something that we are creating a second (INAUDIBLE).

QUEST: Clare, thank you. I appreciate it. Very kind of you for joining us and taking time tonight. As QUEST MEANS BUSINESS continues, now you might

have thought as a real estate company, buying more real estate had gone off their minds, but far from it. After the break, the CEO of a real estate

company that believes the future is to buy more, not less office space. Has he gone mad? After the break.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[15:50:00]

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

QUEST: Welcome back, QUEST MEANS BUSINESS. Start of a new week together, here I am in London, still in quarantine, another week to go, but

(INAUDIBLE) the markets, let me update you and show you how they did trade today. We'll start of course, with the U.S. markets and where they stand.

The Dow Jones Industrials (INAUDIBLE) is up just a fraction. It's a mutt, this is a classic, modest day, and one percent on the S&P -- two, sorry,

yeah, 2-1/2 of the NASDAQ.

So, the markets are showing that the Big Blue Chips, there's one or two obviously, Big Blue Chips that are holding impact, growing and the like.

But the S&P is up one percent and the NASDAQ to a very strong day for NASDAQ, which of course continues to wreck record territory.

When we look at property, you might wonder why is a property company actually buying more office space when every story seems to be that

companies are deciding to downsize. Mark Dixon is the chief executive of International Workplace Group here in shared office space around the globe,

and he's buying more of it. I can't be the first person to have said, either have you been drinking too much or have you not been feeling well?

Most people are asking, why are you buying more real estate?

MARK DIXON, CEO, INTERNATIONAL WORKPLACE GROUP (via Skype): Well, look, it really depends where the real estate is. There's been a marked change,

clearly, during this crisis, in terms of where people work, and how companies wants to support workers, so more people working at home. There's

more demand for real estate in the suburbs and small towns and villages all over the world.

QUEST: So, with that in mind, with more real estate required, and for example, WeWork, in trouble, you're deciding what? How's your strategy

different? Because we -- I know we're not all going to be working from home forever, but many more people will be working from home.

DIXON: Well, absolutely. Look, we have a significant part of our business is supporting people working from home. So, we have overall globally, about

7.2 million users. We operate in 120 countries. We're in 1,100 cities and towns, so we're very spread. So, the workers of the future are actually

using space as they need it and they use it from their homes. They take an office where and when they might need it, and this, we believe, will be a

trend for the future, certainly, in many of our conversations with our larger corporate customers.

They're certainly thinking this way. This is their new strategy. Which is to really provide workplaces wherever people need them, rather than force

people to commute long distances into downtown city locations.

[15:55:13]

QUEST: Do you see opportunities in terms of prices? I mean, there's been talk of sort of a collapse in commercial real estate in the major cities,

London, New York and the like. Do you see that? I know you're not particularly looking in those places. But do you see a dramatic fall in

share prices and their property prices there?

DIXON: Yes. I mean, look, there's no doubt that there's going to be a seismic change in terms of the real estate people are looking for, and it's

going to be that difference in demand, is going to change prices in the short to medium term. Look, London, New York, San Francisco, always going

to be popular locations, but they will be used much more for getting people together to collaborate rather than housing large numbers of workers in one

place. So, it's a change of use long-term popular, but it's going to be painful over the coming couple of years, no doubt.

QUEST: Thank you, sir, for joining us. I appreciate it. We will have a "PROFITABLE MOMENT" after the break.

DIXON: Thank you.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

QUEST: So, tonight's "PROFITABLE MOMENT," this afternoon, I got back my COVID and antibodies results, which I had taken the test before I left the

United States, last week. So, it's taken a good 11 to 12 days for me to get the results. Even so, I'm in quarantine here in London, and will remain so

until the weekend, because the U.K. doesn't have any provision for those who have arrived from other countries with a negative COVID test, to come

out of quarantine.

The regulations say you have to be there regardless. why am I telling you all this? I'm telling you this because it just shows how disjointed it all

is, at the moment. The E.U. to a certain extent has, the U.S. is still very disjointed, nobody really knows exactly where you can or you can't go. And

all of this is happening. Meanwhile, at the same time, as we're all supposed to be going on holiday for the summer.

Well, I promise you before the end of the week, I'll show you what I've been doing whilst I've been in quarantine. A little -- a little -- a little

hint, it tastes rather good. We're doing all sorts of things. Anyway, so that be it. That is QUEST MEANS BUSINESS for tonight. I'm Richard Quest.

END