Return to Transcripts main page

Quest Means Business

Source: U.S. Postal Service Hires P.R. Firm Amid Crisis; Ardern Hits Back After Trump Says NZ Seeing "Huge Surge"; Okonjo-Iweala: Trade Can Play An Important Part In The Recovery. Aired 3-4p ET

Aired August 19, 2020 - 15:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

ZAIN ASHER, CNN INTERNATIONAL HOST: A new day of records is still in the cards for Wall Street, although the Dow is pretty much flat right now given

the fact that the Fed has raised concerns about the health of the U.S. economy given the coronavirus pandemic. Those are the markets, and these

are the reasons why.

Apple takes it to a whole new level. It is now the world's first $2 trillion company.

And Pope Francis says a coronavirus vaccine cannot belong only to the rich.

And the crisis gets bigger for the U.S. Postal Service as it tries to get ready for Election Day.

Live from New York, it is Wednesday, the 19th of August. I am Zain Asher, and this is QUEST MEANS BUSINESS.

Apple became the sole member of the $2 trillion club earlier. The gains tonight aren't all that dramatic, not quite one percent there, just over

half one percent actually. But the larger trend this year paints a staggering picture.

The company's stock has soared following an initial dip as the pandemic emerged. Shares though are up nearly 60 percent year-to-date. Perhaps most

impressive of all though is about that Apple only hit $1 trillion two years ago.

Richard Quest has more on how they got here.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

RICHARD QUEST, CNN BUSINESS ANCHOR, QUEST MEANS BUSINESS: It is an extraordinary achievement for Apple to have reached this high valuation, at

the same time as the world is in recession and suffering from a pandemic.

But when you think about how it has done it, it makes sense. All the devices that we have been buying and using, all the apps that we've been

using during the time we've been working from home and spending that much longer online.

The shares of Apple are up more than 50 percent this year alone. The investors feel, tech giants like Apple, Microsoft, and Amazon are good

places to park money during the crisis.

Apple is now the world's largest listed company. It overtook Saudi Aramco in early August, a sign of how the pandemic has hurt energy demand and how

bigger tech has overtaken Big Oil.

Apple's massive size comes at a price. Increased pressure from regulators, Tim Cook testified before Congress in July and argued the company is not a

monopoly.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TIM COOK, CEO, APPLE: Our goal is the best, not the most. In fact, we don't have a dominant share in any market or in any product category where

we do business.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

QUEST: And so the Catch 22. Apple is facing possibly further regulation, and antitrust action at the same time we are demanding more and more of the

company's products because it seems we are going to be working from home longer and there will be no letup in demand.

Richard Quest, CNN, New York.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

ASHER: Apple was a dominant force before the pandemic. But life at home has only accelerated its growth.

Every branch on the Apple tree is blossoming lately with record revenues in the App Store, Apple Music, and its Cloud services as well and they keep

planting more.

Apple TV launched in November and Apple Radio made its debut on Tuesday.

Longtime tech investor, Roger McNamee joins us live now from San Francisco. So Roger, Richard touched on this earlier a second ago in his piece, but

when you think about the fact that year-to-date, Apple shares have risen about 60 percent despite the fact that the broader economy is suffering and

there are just so many economic woes given the pandemic, it is quite remarkable.

ROGER MCNAMEE, CO-FOUNDER AND MANAGING PARTNER, ELEVATION PARTNERS: Well, I think the first part of this is that the stock market has done remarkably

well, because the Fed has been incredibly attentive to the needs of investors and the need to eliminate fear. They have done a brilliant job of

that. And so Apple has been a huge beneficiary.

But the other thing that I always look at when I am looking at Apple is how perfect Tim Cook turned out to be for the iPhone that Steve Jobs was

absolutely necessary for creating the iPhone, but the commercializing of it, going global, building a huge relationship in China. Those are things

that suited Tim Cook perfectly and he has done, I think, a masterful job.

What's tricky for investors today is that the threats to Apple are largely external. Even though they are at peak iPhone, the opportunity in services,

and the opportunities in privacy and some of these other categories are huge.

But the external issues, I think right now are something we not only need to pay attention to, but I think should be genuinely worried about.

ASHER: So just because you touched on Tim Cook, I mean do you think that just in terms of iconic leadership, Tim Cook is actually on par with Steve

Jobs at least when it comes to giving shareholders what they want?

[15:05:19]

MCNAMEE: Well, to be clear, I think Tim Cook was the perfect guy for this period, and it's hard for me to imagine anyone else doing a better job than

Tim Cook did in this environment.

Because again, he starts with the iPhone, and the question was not creating the iPhone, but in fact making the most of it and it is really hard to

argue with the success of Apple to this point.

The challenge they face, of course, is that they have built a really substantial business in China and risk being a ping-pong ball in the Cold

War that's developing between the United States and China right now.

And I think they also are in the cross hairs of regulators in the U.S. over antitrust. And I think they have real issues politically in that regard

because companies -- you know, the folks, Epic, who make one of the most popular games on Earth is challenging Apple's rules in the App Store on the

heels of an antitrust hearing where Apple was called to task for the way it prices.

It doesn't do anything unusual, but the numbers have been so big to Apple that it makes it vulnerable to criticism and I think that is a giant issue.

ASHER: I mean, you think about it from the perspective of antitrust and regulators, obviously you've brought up some of the controversy concerning

the App Store and the fact that they charge 30 percent fees for app developers, which a lot of them have been complaining about, but just from

the perspective of antitrust, does this underscore the notion, the fact that Apple is a $2 trillion company, does it underscore the notion that

tech companies right now are simply far too big?

MCNAMEE: Well, I think Apple is conspicuously different from Google, Facebook, and Amazon in that regard, because it does not have the kind of

control of markets that those companies have.

But Apple does control its own ecosystem, and even though the 30 percent it charges is comparable you what you see in industries like cable television,

it has made Apple so much money. And I do think there is a real concern, at least that I have it, that in Silicon Valley, the dominance of Google,

Facebook, Amazon, and Apple does in fact limit innovation and certainly limits the opportunity for new start-ups.

And I think in our economy and in our democracy, we want to be encouraging small businesses. We want to be encouraging innovation and start-ups.

And let's face it, the country has had a negative policy on immigration. It has had a negative policy on supporting the needs of start-ups. It has

really been very focused on empowering the powerful and that has become politically a lot harder strategy to advocate.

I am quite hopeful candidly, even though I am an investor, I am hopeful that we do revert, that we do in fact force competition to happen by

reducing the market advantages that the largest companies have.

And Apple, even though it behaves much better than Google, Facebook, and Amazon, it is a huge company. And with the $2 trillion market cap, it is

going to catch some of that flak.

ASHER: And just in terms of Apple basically being forced to innovate slightly more. I mean, you talk about the fact that Tim Cook has been

excellent when it comes to the commercialization of the iPhone and Apple in general. He has been massively successful when it comes to making Apple

money.

But without new products, without new inventions, can this sort of growth really be sustained long term, do you think?

MCNAMEE: Yes, so I think that the innovation complaint about Tim Cook is really misplaced for a couple of reasons. The iPhone is arguably the

greatest product ever created. There has never been a single product that has achieved more than the iPhone.

So coming up with the encore of that was always going to be difficult and candidly, I think what he is doing in services may turn out to be every bit

as important as the iPhone.

So, I don't think that's the real issue. I think the real issue for Apple is the fact that the country has got a huge economic problem and it spent

so much money on the bailout so far that largely went to rich people that we are going the see changes in the tax law next year.

You are going the see it, it will be much harder to buy stock back. You are going to see an increase in capital gains taxes. These are things that

affect everyone. But Apple as a big winner is going to be affected also.

I think you're going to see antitrust regulation. I think you're going to see privacy regulation. Apple could be a beneficiary of the privacy

regulation. And I think you are going to see safety regulation in tech.

And all of those things, I think are just going to slow thing down in the tech sector and make investors pause. And I think that's really what the

risk is that we all face right now that we just need to recognize that the market has been really good to us and there is a lot more risk in front of

us than we are factoring into stock prices.

ASHER: I see. So for Apple, really, the environment in the coming months within which Apple operates ...

[15:10:10]

MCNAMEE: Exactly.

ASHER: ... is going to be that much tougher. Roger McNamee, we have to leave it there. Thank you so much. Appreciate it. We've run out of time.

MCNAMEE: My pleasure.

ASHER: Thank you for joining us.

U.S. markets look to be on their way to more record highs earlier, but each major index has cooled off towards the end of the day. Thing are relatively

flat across the board with the Dow, nudging slightly up and the NASDAQ, as you can see, they are slightly down.

Finding a vaccine for coronavirus is the great scientific challenge of our times.

New polling shows that getting everyone to actually take it won't be easy either. The CEO of GAVI, the vaccine alliance joins me next.

And several high-profile politicians take the virtual stage at tonight's Democratic National Convention including former U.S. President, Barack

Obama. What to expect, next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

ASHER: AstraZeneca shares have given up afternoon up early gains in New York. Australia announced a deal with the company to distribute its

coronavirus vaccine which is now in advanced trials.

The preliminary deal would let the Australian government make the vaccine and offer free doses to all its citizens. Prime Minister Scott Morrison

initially said taking the drug would be as mandatory as you could make it. He later clarified that vaccinations would not be mandatory.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SCOTT MORRISON, AUSTRALIAN PRIME MINISTER: We are going to all take this one step at a time. But I don't think offering jelly beans is going to be

the way to do that, as you do with kids. But we will take those issues as they present and consider what steps are necessary at that time.

But I would in the first instance be encouraging people to taking it on. I'll certainly would be taking it on, my family would be taking it on, and

I would be encouraging all others to do the responsible thing for the sake of not only their own health, but for the community's health.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ASHER: If and when a vaccine becomes available, getting people to take it might present a bit of a challenge. According to a new CNN poll, just 56

percent of Americans now say they would get vaccinated against the virus. That's down 10 percent from May.

The dip is concentrated among supporters of Donald Trump. Half of the President's supporters said they would seek a vaccine in May, and only 38

percent say the same thing now.

Convincing people to take a vaccine will be one challenge, wide and even distribution will be another.

Pope Francis is warning poorer countries must not be left out. Speaking from the Vatican, the Pope said any vaccine must be for everyone.

[15:15:04]

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

POPE FRANCIS (through translator): It would be sad if the rich are given priority for the COVID-19 vaccine. It would be sad if this vaccine became

the property of this or that nation, if it is not universal and for everyone.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ASHER: Dr. Seth Berkley is CEO of GAVI, the vaccine alliance. He is in Geneva for us. Thank you so much for being with us.

So how do we make sure that when this vaccine becomes available that the world's most vulnerable are given equal access to it?

DR. SETH BERKLEY, CEO, GAVI: Well, that's a great question. The reason GAVI exists and has been around for 20 years is to try to make powerful new

vaccines available in developing countries. We have launched 496 new vaccines over the last 20 years and coverage levels are the highest they

have ever been at any time.

Of course in this case, the challenge is going to be, will there be vaccines available for the developing world? And what we are trying to do

therefore, is make sure we can come together to buy vaccines for developed and developing countries to make sure there are adequate doses to go

around.

ASHER: And how do you ensure who gets given first priority?

BERKLEY: Well, our belief is, you are not safe unless everyone is safe. So, although there have been discussions about trying to completely cover a

few countries, that doesn't really provide protection in a pandemic when the virus can move around the world, and if you have reservoirs of virus

that are out there.

So the idea would be to distribute it to develop and developing countries at the same time, initially, to cover healthcare workers because they are

at risk and can transmit. And then to have it available for high-risk groups, trying to get to something like 20 percent of the population level

over the next year and a half.

So our goal is to try to have two billion doses by the end of 2021 and with that really tamp down the pandemic globally.

ASHER: So why 20 percent? If 20 percent of a population is vaccinated, does that protect enough of the broader population?

BERKLEY: Well, the challenge, of course, is on day one when we have efficacy data, and that of course assumes that these vaccines do work, but

first day, you're going to have one dose roll off that assembly line.

But the first, say, 18 months, there will be limited numbers of doses. There will be much more demand than there is supply. So the challenge then

is what do you do with that?

And we believe that the right thing to do is to target those at highest risk and those that are at most likely to transmit and be most likely to be

affected by it. That's how you come to that 20 percent number.

Of course you don't stop there. You may want to continue to vaccinate going forward, and of course, we need to understand better the epidemiology given

that this is a new agent and we really don't understand fully all the risk patterns around the world and what will happen with population immunity.

ASHER: A new CNN poll came out showing that only 56 percent of Americans, if a vaccine was to be available today, would be willing to take it. Does

that surprise you that only half of all Americans would actually trust a vaccine enough to actually take it themselves?

BERKLEY: Well, I think you are seeing a problem of fear that has bubbled up and I think this is a real problem.

For the first time, we are beginning to see the anti-vaccine community go with nationalists, go with other conspiracy theorists, and the speed at

which things are moving make people nervous.

Now, of course I am a great believer in speed. But what we want to cut out is unnecessary bureaucracy and unnecessary sequential nature of the

process. We don't want to change at all the safety part of this and making sure that it gets a proper regulatory approval.

My own belief is we have to take this seriously, but when we have a vaccine that's been approved by a stringent regulatory authority and we know it is

safe and people start taking it and they can go back to a normal existence, then I think you will see much more people for it than the polls would say,

but right now, people are scared.

ASHER: So then, what should be done just in terms of at least convincing people? You talked about the fear, people are apprehensive about the speed

at which things are progressing.

Obviously, the anti-vaxxers are out in full force as well. What can health officials do at the C.D.C. to at least counter act that?

BERKLEY: Well, the first thing is, we have to be clear that we have to follow the science. So, we don't want to be speculating about things. We

want to follow science, follow the procedures. They are there for a reason.

The world has worked quite hard to make sure vaccines are as safe as they can possibly be, and we want to follow those procedures to make sure the

products are safe and efficacious.

[15:20:06]

BERKLEY: The second thing is, what we know is that people trust their healthcare providers, they trust community leaders, and we need to bring

those groups into the conversation so that they can work to allay any fears that are out there.

And with that, I believe over time, we will see a change in that attitude. But of course, we will have to see what the results are in these trials and

that's going to be very important and to make sure that that information gets out in a proper way with truth behind it.

ASHER: All right, Dr. Seth thank you so much for being with us. Appreciate it.

BERKLEY: My pleasure. Nice to see you.

ASHER: We are just hours away from the highest profile night yet for the Democratic National Convention. Joe Biden's vice presidential pick, Kamala

Harris, will be making the most important speech of her political career.

Also appearing virtually, former President Barack Obama and former Democratic presidential nominee Hillary Clinton as well.

Last night, Bill Clinton attacked President Donald Trump's handling of the coronavirus pandemic.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BILL CLINTON, FORMER PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: We have just four percent of the world's population, but 25 percent of the world's COVID

cases. Our unemployment rate is more than twice as high as South Korea's, two and a half times the United Kingdom's, more than three times Japan's.

Donald Trump says we are leading the world, well, we are the only major industrial economy to have its unemployment rate tripled.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ASHER: CNN's Jessica Dean is in Wilmington, Delaware where Kamala Harris will be speaking tonight.

So, what a pivotal moment in history, Jessica. Two of the most important faces in the Democratic Party right now are black. They are both speaking

tonight. Kamala Harris accepting the vice presidential nomination. You have also got Barack Obama speaking as well.

How much will that do to really energize black voters in America?

JESSICA DEAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, that's certainly what the Democratic Party is hoping that these speeches tonight will appeal not only

to black voters, but voters all across the country, Zain.

First with Kamala Harris, who will make history as the first woman of color to be on a major party ticket. She will accept her nomination right here in

Wilmington, Delaware, right behind me tonight. We are expecting her to talk a lot about her biography.

She is the child of Jamaican and Indian immigrants and she is going to weave together that story and we are told by aides that she really hopes

that Americans see themselves in the story that she tells.

She is also planning on sharing other's experiences and her hope and plan for a more inclusive country where everyone is seen equally and protected

by the law equally.

So except to hear that from Kamala Harris here tonight as she makes history. And you also talk about former President Barack Obama who will

have a key role in the third night of the Democratic National Convention.

We just learned, he will be giving his speech at the Museum of the American Revolution in Philadelphia and it is important to know that because that

gives you context for the message that he is going to give tonight, which is we are told by aides, that the very essence of American democracy is on

the line for this election year, and that's how important it is going to be.

He is going to really call out all Americans to really pay attention and he is going to lay out why. This is such a pivotal election not just for

Democrats, but for all of American democracy, that he is going to talk about why Joe Biden is uniquely suited in this moment to be the man to lead

America out of the various crises that it is facing -- Zain.

ASHER: And Hillary Clinton is also going to be speaking tonight as well. You know, she is quite a divisive figure as you know, how much does her

presence hurt or help Joe Biden at this point?

DEAN: Well, you know, Hillary Clinton, has -- to your point, is polarizing. If you look at her favorability numbers, they are different

than Joe Biden's.

And so look, she was the 2016 nominee. She also broke barriers as the first woman to be the nominee. So she has earned her place to speak tonight and

certainly, the Democratic Party wants to give her that time.

There is going to be a lot of talk about breaking barriers, about female leadership. They are going to be featuring a lot of women within the

Democratic Party who are leading and how they are doing that, what makes them unique, and Hillary Clinton, you remember, very famously talked about

putting the cracks in that glass ceiling.

And you can expect to hear the themes tonight of how so many women are coming behind her because she paved the way for that, so I think that's the

messaging they are going the lean into tonight -- Zain.

ASHER: Jessica Dean live for us there. Thank so much.

Argentina is grappling with a dual problem of a devastating coronavirus outbreak and long running economic woes. The country surpassed 300,000

infections this week as business owners struggle to make a living. Rafael Romo has more.

[15:25:03]

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

RAFAEL ROMO, CNN SENIOR LATIN AMERICAN AFFAIRS EDITOR (voice over): A coffee machine breaks the silence in an otherwise quiet cafe. A single

employee surrounded by upside down chairs on empty tables keeps the place tidy.

The only other person at the cafe is Felipe Evangelista, the owner of the Old Mailbox Cafe in downtown Buenos Aires is sitting at his desk realizing

once again he won't be able to makes ends meet.

"It is a rather unusual situation because the blinds are closed and the tables empty when the main thing about a place like this is people,"

Evangelista says. It's the first time since opening 37 years ago that the Old Mailbox has closed.

It is one of hundreds of cafes, bars and restaurants in Buenos Aires that have been forced to shut their doors due to the coronavirus pandemic.

This restaurant owner says they have been trying to survive by becoming a neighborhood market and offering takeaway and food delivery service. So

far, he says, they have only been able to generate about 10 percent of their pre-pandemic sales. Argentina has been hit especially hard by the

COVID-19 pandemic.

Financial analyst, Jonathan Lloyd, he says, the pandemic and the quarantine measures worsened an economy that was already in recession.

He point out there has been no real economic growth since 2011. The GDP has been falling for years and the annualized inflation rate, even before the

pandemic was 55 percent.

"Uncertainty is the word that best describes life in Argentina nowadays," Lloyd says. The government just recently reached a deal with creditor who

is are owed $65 billion, roughly 20 percent of its crushing $323 billion total debt.

But President Alberto Fernandez says his priority is a venture involving Oxford University and Anglo-Swiss Lab and Mexico to manufacture a

coronavirus vaccine that he hopes will put his country's economy back on track.

But patience is running low. About 25,000 Argentinians took to the streets of Buenos Aires Monday to protest a judicial reform launched by Fernandez,

the economic crisis, and the government's handling of COVID-19.

Back at the Old Mailbox Cafe, Felipe Evangelista fears developing a vaccine may take longer than the country's economy can withstand.

He says, one of his greatest fears is that life will change so much that people will never return to the little corner cafe that has been a

gathering spot for generations of Argentinians.

Rafael Romo, CNN.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

ASHER: The U.S. Postal Service has sought out a communications lifeline as more than a dozen states accuse it of illegally changing mail policies

ahead of the election.

The former chair of the USPS Board of Governor is here to discuss. That's next.

[15:30:00]

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

ASHER: Hello, everyone, I'm Zain Asher. There's more QUEST MEANS BUSINESS in a moment, when some workers at the U.S. Postal Service aren't satisfied

with how it's trying to prepare for election day. I'll speak to its former chairman. And Nigeria's former finance minister Ngozi Okonjo-Iweala says --

tells us why the World Trade Organization is more important than ever. Before that though, these are the headlines on CNN at this hour.

The European Union says it is standing with the people of Belarus. During emergency talks today, E.U. leaders rejected the reelection of President

Alexander Lukashenko, saying the August 9th vote was neither free nor fair. They also announced sanctions against officials accused of vote rigging.

The Greek Prime Minister tells CNN he wants Turkey to stop provocations and start talking in order to resolve a dispute over energy rights in the

Mediterranean. Turkey has sent oil survey ships to areas claimed by Greece and Cyprus. Turkey says, it has rights to those areas.

And the African Union is suspending Mali, following a military coup. The organization's peace and security council said it would not reinstate Mali

until constitutional order is restored. It's also called on the country's military to release the President and Prime Minister from detention.

A source tells CNN the U.S. Postal Service has hired a P.R. firm as its credibility comes under attack. Late Tuesday, the USPS agreed to delay a

set of controversial policy changes until after the November election. At least 20 American states have sued the Postal Service over disrupted

deliveries. The lawsuits accused the White House of trying to undermine mail-in voting. David Fineman is the former chair of the USPS Board of

Governors. He's now Board Chair of the Fair Election Center. David joins us live now from Philadelphia via Skype. So, a few days ago, President Trump

said that he would block funding for the U.S. Postal Service, just in terms of blocking how it processes mailed ballots. I mean, what do you make of

the fact that the U.S. Postal Service has really been politicized in this way?

DAVID FINEMAN, FORMER CHAIR, USPS BOARD OF GOVERNORS (via Skype): It's beyond recognition of the United States Postal Service. I think most of

your people I traveled internationally, on behalf of the Postal Service, probably, I would like to say one of the most respected, if not the -- if

not the most respected post in the world. And one reason it was, it was because it was nonpolitical. There was a board of governors, five people of

one party, four of another. I served during the terms of President Clinton, President Bush, and never did I have any interaction with the President of

the United States. We ran it as a business, and that's the way it's supposed to be run. But it's not supposed to be a political football.

ASHER: So, when President Trump says that mailed ballots leads to fraud, what do you say to that?

FINEMAN: I'd say show it -- show me the evidence that it does. There was a federal judge in Pennsylvania, when the Trump administration sued, he said,

show me the evidence that there is going to be any fraud. And as of today's date, that was last week, there hasn't been any showing that there's going

to be fraud. This is just hogwash. I have no -- mail ballots have been in existence in the United States and various states since the early 90s.

[15:35:10]

And there's never been any question of fraud with regard to mail ballots. I saw today that President Trump actually applied for himself for an absentee

ballot in Florida. If his ballot can be sent to him from Florida, we can expect that other people's ballots can be sent to them, and they can vote

by mail.

ASHER: So, how important is, you know, congressional oversight? Just so that there's -- just given what's happened, I mean, you've talked about it

being unprecedented, just so that there's some accountability in it, and at least an investigation into what's going on.

FINEMAN: I think it's absolutely important. You know, when I was the chairman, and actually Vice Chairman, I testified in front of Congress on a

regular basis. When mail delivery might have been a little slower than we expected, in any locality, I can guarantee you that I heard from the United

States Senators or the Congressmen. But what I didn't hear from was the president, and the president trying to intercede in a political manner. And

this is unprecedented. It's pretty clear that the President recommended the now-Postmaster General to the board. And they call each other, good

friends. I've never seen anything quite like this.

The Chief of Staff to the president was on your show on Sunday morning, talking about, Don't worry, we're not going to take any further action to

take any sorting machines out of the plants. He has no role in this. This is not his authority. And it's clear that that is what's occurring. And

what I'd like to call on Congress to do is to do a couple different things. One of which is, we want to find out what did the Postmaster General say to

the Chief of Staff?

And moreover, what did the Chief of Staff say to the Postmaster General? What did the President say to the Postmaster General? And what did the

Postmaster General say to the President? The second thing I'd like to find out is with all these cuts, let's follow the money. How much savings were

there? And in the middle of a pandemic, you're going to cut back service? This makes no sense.

ASHER: So, just in terms -- I mean, you bring up the Postal Service's financial woes. I mean, it's no secret, the Postal Service is in debt in

this country, majorly. I believe it's something like $100 billion in debt. What sort of -- I mean, politics aside, what sort of long-term reforms are

needed here beyond emergency funding, just to really help the Postal Service stay afloat, financially?

FINEMAN: In 2006, the law was changed, and Congress decided that the Postal Service should pre-fund pension plans. I don't know of any business that

pre-funds its pension plans. Had the Postal Service not had that obligation, quite frankly, we would be in pretty good shape, but for what's

occurred with the pandemic. The House of Representatives have passed legislation to eliminate that burden. It's languished in the United States

Senate for some time. I think that everybody in the mailing community, that includes the unions, agree that that burden should be lifted from the

Postal Service.

The second thing is that Congress, the Senate, they have found a way to bail out multinational corporations, as well as the airlines. And there's

no reason that they can't find a way to bail out the United States Postal Service at this time, and make sure that mail is going to be delivered on

time, that people are going to get their prescription drugs as they need them.

ASHER: All right. David Fineman live for us. Thank you so much.

FINEMAN: Thank you for having me.

ASHER: New Zealand -- you're very welcome. New Zealand is deploying hundreds more troops to help stop the spread of coronavirus, even as it

reports only five new cases today. We'll speak to the mayor of Auckland, just ahead.

[15:40:00]

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

ASHER: New Zealand is deploying hundreds more military personnel to help stop the spread of COVID-19. The country had gone months with no new cases,

but recently reported a small outbreak. Today's new infections drop to just five. U.S. President Donald Trump is labeling the resurgence in New Zealand

as huge during this rebuke from yesterday from Prime Minister Jacinda Ardern.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JACINDA ARDERN, PRIME MINISTER OF NEW ZEALAND: New Zealand's nine cases in a day does not compare to the United States' tens of thousands. In fact, it

does not compare to most countries in the real world. Obviously, it's patently wrong.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ASHER: We're joined now by Phil Goff the Mayor of Auckland, New Zealand. Phil, thank you so much for being with us. Just start by setting the scene

for us in terms of how, you know, you guys have basically gone months with no new cases and hugely successful in sort of clamping down on this virus.

And then, suddenly, there has been a reintroduction. Just walk us through where things stand now.

PHIL GOFF, MAYOR OF AUCKLAND, NEW ZEALAND: Yeah, well, we did do remarkably well. We made 100 day -- 102 days without any community transmission. And I

think we're one of the best-performing countries in the world and probably still are. With the rampant virus in the world, of course, we constantly

face the risk of new incursions, notwithstanding our border controls. And after 102 days, we had another case of community transmission, which has

created a cluster of about altogether about 98 people. But I have to say, we were somewhat mystified as we often are by President Trump's comments, a

big surge. On the day that our cases went up by nine, I think the United States cases went up by 42,000, very sadly.

And you know, we've been thinking of the United States and what you've gone through there. Basically, our approach was to go hard and to go early, so

that we could contain the disease and get back to normality. And that succeeded, but there will be constant threats to our system, because we

have got New Zealanders returning home, and they do bring the disease back with them. All of them are required to be in quarantine for 14 days. But,

you know, there are human errors in the system. And this was a case that got through. We are, however, confident at the moment that it's being

contained, and that we can reduce our alert levels, and again, enjoy the situation that we had for three months. You know, full football stadiums

and life pretty much as normal apart from the closure of the border.

[15:45:01]

ASHER: So, notwithstanding sort of a handful of cases you're seeing, you know, each day, I mean, the fact that you attacked the virus head on, hard

and early, as you say, what can other countries around the world learn from the way New Zealand has handled this from the get-go?

GOFF: Well, I think there's a false dichotomy between saying, you know, you either protect health or you protect the economy, because if the disease

becomes rampant in the -- in the community, you not only lose lives, and I think, you know, the United States -- so, I know, when we adjust for

population, probably the fatality rates are 50 to 100 times more per head of population than in New Zealand. What we did is that we went to contain

the virus, and then to start to recover the economy. And for the period of time that we had brought back to what we call, level one, the economy was

recovering very, very quickly. This is a setback. But we'll get through it. And we'll get through it by working together.

I think the important lesson for New Zealand is that, overwhelmingly, the community came together and said, Look working together, we can beat this

virus, and we did. Now, we have the odd outliers and some of the anti- vaxxers, including those, unfortunately from the United States that says, just let the disease in, and you'll have natural herd immunity. Well, I

don't think you get the herd immunity until you get to about 60 percent infection. And in most countries of the world worst affected, they've only

got up to about 10 percent.

So, let's contain the virus as much as we can, until such time as we've got a vaccine. At the same time, we've got to continually adapt and learn

better ways of dealing with testing, dealing with contact tracing, and then trying to partially reopen our borders to the world again, because we are a

country that trades internationally and relies heavily on international tourism.

ASHER: And for the first -- in terms of the first lockdown, though, you know, even though it was extremely successful, what was the initial impact

on the economy, you know, just in terms of local businesses that were forced to shutter?

GOFF: Well, when you have a lockdown, which is our level four, and that stops about half of the workforce going to work, and that clearly has a big

impact on businesses, on jobs, on the economy. We're currently at level three, and probably the impact is closer to 20 percent of people not able

to work. Those are the 26 percent of people that are in face-to-face contact with the customers. So, bars, restaurants, hairdressers, that sort

of thing. And, of course, at the moment, we have closed down major public events, just when we're enjoying getting back to full sports stadiums and

gatherings and greeting people like we normally do.

You know, the clear messages are, you know, wash your hands regularly, maintain social distancing, wear a mask, if you're going out into public

while we're at level three. We didn't have to do that when we reduced to level two and level one, and we hope to be back there, hopefully within a

matter of weeks.

ASHER: All right, Phil Goff, Mayor of Auckland, thank you so much. Appreciate you joining us.

GOFF: It's my pleasure. Thank you very much.

ASHER: When we come back, the WTO throws cold water on hopes for V-shaped recovery, warning that global trade activity is pointing for a longer and

deeper slowdown.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[15:50:59]

ASHER: The World Trade Organization says hopes for a V-shaped recovery may be overly optimistic. The group's key trade barometer hit an all-time low,

as global trade fell sharply in the second quarter. The WTO said it is seeing some signs of bounce back but warned the global economy could be

facing a more protracted L-shaped recover instead. Ngozi Okonjo-Iweala says the WTO can play a critical role in helping economies bounce back from the

pandemic. The former Nigeria finance minister is one of eight candidates in the race to lead the organization, which has seen its influence wane, as

major economies like the U.S. and China adopt more protectionist trade policies. Okonjo-Iweala told Stephanie Busari that in the post-pandemic

era, the WTO could be more important than ever.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

NGOZI OKONJO-IWEALA, FORMER NIGERIAN FINANCE MINISTER: Trade can play an important part in the recovery from recession of the global economy. Many

countries that are going to be thrown into recession, they need to trade themselves, their ways out of this recession coming on. And so, again, the

role of the WTO in making sure that the multilateral trading system is stable, predictable, fair, and can go hand trade for every member. I think

that's important.

And I think this is one of the reasons why this is my third point, why I have said or offered my leadership, I think that the WTO needs a leader at

this time. It needs a fresh look, a fresh face, an outsider, someone with the capability to implement reforms, and to work with members to make sure

that the WTO comes out of the partial paralysis that it's in, and move to serve the world better.

STEPHANIE BUSARI, CNN PRODUCER: So, we're seeing a lot of countries kind of rejecting, if you like, the kind of global supply chain and focusing

inwards on local production. And, you know, post-pandemic, everyone's kind of like we need to make these materials ourselves, we need to be self-

sufficient. How does that impact global trade, for example, and what can the WTO do about that?

OKONJO-IWEALA: I think that this job protectionism and nationalism, and trying to get supply chains that preceded the pandemic; that was a trend

that had already started. And I think the pandemic has exacerbated it. So, you will see the certain amount, I think, of reshoring, of bringing some

supply chains back in countries. You have this sentiment of going from just in time, to just in case, or just at home, as someone would term it. And

so, I think that's inevitable. But I do not believe that the extent of this reshoring will be as large as many people think. I think McKinsey is

estimated in some studies that may be reshoring could reach up to 25 percent of global supply chains, and they'll still be a large part that

continues. Because supply chains are so intricately woven now, that it's not as easy to bring them back as one would think.

BUSARI: You talked about your work with COVID. And, you know, a lot has been said about African countries and their resilience about -- towards a

pandemic and the numbers that have been predicted just haven't been seen here on the continent, bar maybe six or seven countries that have been kind

of badly hit. What is your assessment of the COVID situation in Africa?

OKONJO-IWEALA: Let us just say, thanks to God that the number of deaths is fairly low, but I'm not sure we should be sanguine. According to the Africa

CDC Dr. John Nkengasong, the CDC has been a very good job.

[15:55:00]

Cases accelerating at about 100,000 per week. So, we're on the upward climb, we've not peaked yet in many countries. And we are -- we're at about

950,000 cases now, almost getting to a million on the continent with about 20,000 deaths. So, I don't think we can relax yet and say that this is

passing us by. Let us see when we peak, when that will happen, and then we'll take it from there. You should also perhaps know that sometimes the

symptoms of COVID resemble those of malaria, meningitis, and many other diseases on the continent, so we may also have some amount of

underreporting of good cases and deaths.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

ASHER: Ngozi Okonjo-Iweala there. Where the last few minutes of trade on Wall Street, stocks have given back early gains. The selling started right

after the Fed published the minutes of its July meeting. The Fed has so far ruled out some extreme monetary policy measures to juice the economy amid

the pandemic. It looks like the S&P 500 and the NASDAQ will narrowly miss record closing highs.

Apple is still higher. The company became the sole member of the $2- trillion club during Wednesday's session. Shares are up nearly 60 percent year-to-date. And that is QUEST MEANS BUSINESS, I'm Zain Asher coming to

you live from New York. "THE LEAD" with Jake Tapper is next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

END

END