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Quest Means Business
As Trump Undermines Election, Wall Street Plans for Biden Win; Dow Rises Friday, Still Headed for Fourth Straight Down Week; U.K. Introduces New Restrictions as Cases Soar; How Social Media Misinformation Affects Donald Trump Voters; Facebook Oversight Board To Launch Ahead Of U.S. Election; Mining On Heritage Sites Under Scrutiny In Australia; Microsoft Unveils New Xbox Consoles. Aired 3-4p ET
Aired September 25, 2020 - 15:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[15:00:10]
ZAIN ASHER, CNN INTERNATIONAL HOST: Let's take a look here. We have had big swings on the Dow every single day this week. Today is no exception. The
Dow is up 300 points or so, boosted by tech shares especially. But we are still on track for four straight weeks of losses. Those are the markets.
And these are the reasons why.
U.S. investors are betting on a Joe Biden presidency ahead of the first debate.
France now has more than half a million coronavirus cases.
And Facebook is struggling to stop election misinformation. I will speak to the co-chair of its new oversight board.
Coming to you live from New York, it is Friday, September 25th. I'm Zain Asher and this is QUEST MEANS BUSINESS.
Tonight, as Donald Trump tries to undermine confidence in the U.S. election, investors prepare for a Joe Biden presidency. There are now just
39 days until Election Day and President Trump is once again casting doubt on whether or not he is going to be accepting the results. He says the only
way he will lose is if the contest is rigged.
Meantime, a new survey shows Wall Street expects Joe Biden will take the White House. Those same investors say that if Democrats also manage to take
full control of Congress, higher taxes and more regulation could wreck their bottom line. And yet, the finance industry is funneling five times
more cash to Biden's campaign than to Trump's.
Certainly, a pivotal week is ahead for American politics. On Saturday, we expect Donald Trump will unveil his nomination to replace Ruth Bader
Ginsburg on the Supreme Court. Next Tuesday is the first debate between the President and Joe Biden. And after Wednesday, bailout measures preventing
layoffs will expire for several sectors including aviation.
Lots to talk about here. Peter Spiegel is in New York for us. He is the U.S. Managing Editor at "The Financial Times." Peter, thank you so much for
being with us. So much hangs in the balance right now for the U.S. economy. Obviously, you've got coronavirus cases, 200,000 deaths here in the U.S.
You also have got uncertainty around the election, and a whole host of other issues, including stimulus.
If, come November 3rd, there is no stimulus deal, there is uncertainty as to who the winner is when it comes to the U.S. President and the
coronavirus is still raging on, as it appears it will be, what happens to the U.S. economy then?
PETER SPIEGEL, U.S. MANAGING EDITOR, "THE FINANCIAL TIMES": Well, let's unpack some of this stuff because there are three things as you said that
could impact the markets and are impacting the markets. So, in terms of election turmoil, I think that's the one thing the markets are not prepared
for.
As you said, most investors are anticipating a rather smooth transition to power to Biden. And again, as you said in your intro there, there is
concern about higher taxes and more regulation.
But to be honest with you, what the markets always want is certainty. And what we have seen frankly in the Trump administration, particularly when we
talk to some of sources in the M&A world is mergers and the regulatory environment have been so chaotic that they actually don't know even though
Trump tends to be more pro-business what the Trump White House will decide on any business regulations.
So, frankly a lot of investors are looking forward to a Biden presidency even if it may be a little bit more anti-business because at least there is
some certainty and coherence in there. So, if there is turmoil in the election itself, I think that could spook the markets.
The other issues you pointed at, I think, you know, in terms of in the sense that fiscal stimulus is running out, as you said, some of the
measures are beginning to fall off a cliff, this is what has kept the markets on an upswing. We have seen the tech stocks go up because of it,
because they feel that the economy is basically kept frozen, for a lack of a better word, throughout the pandemic.
If Congress cannot agree on a new fiscal stimulus, we are going to be hearing from a lot of people in banks and other financial institution. They
are very worried that there would be a crack in the system either through commercial real estate because people stop paying rents or through the
airlines as you said, suddenly they are going to start having to file for bankruptcy.
So there is a lot of concern, restaurants, the leisure industry, the hotel industry. There is concern if there is no fiscal stimulus somewhere in the
next six to eight weeks, we could see things begin to collapse.
So I would say those are the two things that are most nerve wracking. Yes, people are still worried about the pandemic, but there is a lot of optimism
that someone, be it Moderna or be it AstraZeneca, there is going to be some form of a vaccine in the next six months to 12 months.
So, you hear less concern about that than the other two issues you're talking about, you know, fiscal stimulus and election chaos.
ASHER: OK, you've given me a lot to digest there. I just want to touch on the first thing you talked about which is, investors basically anticipating
a Joe Biden presidency. The fact that you have Donald Trump intimating that you know, there might not be a peaceful transition, that he might not
accept the results if he doesn't win -- are markets at least beginning to price in that factor, that we may not get a smooth transition of power in
this country?
[15:05:02]
SPIEGEL: Not yet. Not yet. I think it is too early. I mean, political risk is always something that's out there regardless. Usually it is not the U.S.
Usually these are developing countries, when investors look at developing in Sub Saharan Africa or Latin America or some of the developing economies
in Asia.
Political risk is something that weighs in on their investment decision. It usually does not have to happen in the U.S. So, I don't think you're seeing
that. As you said, this has been a pretty bad month for tech stocks. Today, I think, the Dow is up, but tech stocks in general have been taking a
beating.
I think that is more to do with this issue of the real economy and whether there is going to -- we are starting to see cracks in the real economy and
whether frankly Wall Street has gotten ahead of Main Street.
I don't think you are seeing decisions being made just yet on political instability. I still think there is a confidence in the system and in the
institutions of government that even if there is an interregnum like there was with Bush/Gore and the Florida recount, even if there is legal
challenge that last into December, that there will be uncertainties. But think, at this point at least, despite the President's rhetoric, we haven't
seen those kinds of things priced into the market just yet.
ASHER: OK, and in terms of stimulus, assuming that there is no stimulus bill passed before November 3rd what happens to consumer confidence? What
happens to consumer spending especially just given that you have so many people, millions of Americans who have come to depend on the extra $600.00
a week in terms of unemployment insurance.
SPIEGEL: So we have our own poll we have done this week. It is called the FT/Peterson poll where we actually asked this very question and we saw that
90 percent of Americans said they need some kind of fiscal stimulus for exactly the reasons you said.
What we are seeing is that after the summer when we saw all these spikes in coronavirus cases in Arizona, in Texas, in Florida, the concerns about
health and the virus itself are beginning to abate. We are seeing people more optimistic about their local communities getting better and where the
concerns are rising is in this area of their own personal finances and the economy in general.
About a third of the people we polled said they think the economy is going to get better in the next year, and that's the worst number we have seen
since we started polling on coronavirus about six months ago.
So there is a shifting of concern, and I guess, in terms of dynamic of the election, to some extent that's good news for Trump. Right? If people are
less worried about the pandemic in general, they are less likely to go to the polls and blame him for doing it badly.
On the other hand, if they are worried about the economy -- and this is the thing that Trump thought he would run on, right -- if they are more
concerned about the economy and his handling of the economy, that's good for Biden.
And so I think it is a bit of a mixed bag for the President and a mixed being for Biden right now if the economy continues to really look bad, if
the fiscal stimulus doesn't happen, if people start getting really nervous, they are going to take it out on the President and I think that ultimately
will help Joe Biden.
ASHER: Yes, and one of the other points in your survey was that basically of Americans think that Trump has done a great job on the economy, the
other half don't. So split down the middle and just really clear that this is a divided country. Peter Spiegel, live for us there. Thank you so much.
All right, we are closing out a volatile week on Wall Street. After starting the session in the red, the Dow is now marching higher. It is up
about one percent. The index is likely to close down more than two percent for the week. However, the fourth down week in a row.
Cristina Alesci follows politics and business. She is joining us live now from New York. So, Cristina, we have seen a choppy week in terms of U.S.
markets here. I am assuming it is only going get more volatile as we head towards the election.
CRISTINA ALESCI, CNN BUSINESS POLITICS AND BUSINESS CORRESPONDENT: Absolutely, Zain. The S&P 500 right now is on track for its fourth weekly
decline, and this is essentially reality and uncertainty setting in at the same time. Reality because we have seen such a euphoria around these
indices and these Big Tech stocks.
And essentially, what has happened is, reality is sinking in to investors because they see Washington not focused on stimulus negotiation, getting
cash in the hands of Americans that is to support consumer spending. That is the backbone of the U.S. economy. It is what is driving the recovery
right now.
And uncertainty because there is much talk from the President himself about this question over the peaceful transfer of power. And the chaos -- look,
all investors, all of my sources I have been speaking to have told me that they are concerned that there won't be a clear winner on Election Night.
They were kind of wrapping their heads around that possibility.
But now, if we have a contested election or the results are drawn out for weeks and there are litigation and legal fights in the weeks to come, then
that's a completely different thing. And I think your guest alluded to this in the answer before. You know, they haven't even begun to really price
that in yet.
So that's what's coming forward, and then you know, you have to look at what the Fed has been doing to really support the economy not just in terms
of keeping interest rates low, but also in buying government bonds and really supporting the credit markets and keeping the wheels of finance
well-greased.
On that front, investors really wanted to see the Fed amp up its asset purchases and that's the one thing that Chairman Powell really didn't
answer in his press conferences and in the Hill testimony over these last couple of weeks when he has made those public appearances.
And that's because the Fed is worried about this K-shaped recovery that everybody is talking about where you have, you know, the upper middle class
and the wealthiest Americans doing much better in this economic recovery than the lower middle income classes. And that has been a concern for the
Fed and that's why they have held off on the amount of asset purchases that investors would really like to see them do -- Zain.
[15:10:42]
ASHER: Yes, income inequality has been a massive problem during this pandemic. Cristina Alesci live for us there. Thank you so much.
Even with the coronavirus vaccine, a full economic recovery could be a long way off. That's according to economist, Joseph Stiglitz. He is a Nobel
Prize winning author of "People, Power, and Profits." I spoke with him earlier about what it will take to restore business activity and consumer
confidence.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
JOSEPH STIGLITZ, FORMER CHAIRMAN, U.S. COUNCIL OF ECONOMIC ADVISERS: Even when we have a vaccine, we don't know how effective it's going to be. We
don't know how long it's going to last. You know, we get a flu shot every year and that flu shot is only about 70 to 80 percent effective. So there
are a lot of unknowns.
You know, the President oversimplifies when he says there is going to be a vaccine as if every vaccine is a hundred percent effective and lasts a
lifetime. Clearly, he doesn't know much about vaccines. So that's the first thing. Unless we have an answer to those questions, we don't know whether
the pandemic is totally under control.
The second thing is that there has been an enormous amount of misinformation and of course, Trump is one of the strongest propagators of
this kind of misinformation.
Misinformation has led to a large fraction of Americans feeling reluctant to take the vaccine. They don't trust the President, and the President is a
mendacious person, and the number of lies make it clear -- why should we trust him? For better or for worse, that's the reality we have to deal
with.
The third point is that there is a lot of damage to the economy that has already been done. And the failure of the Republicans to give the necessary
life support to the system, to provide unemployment insurance, to help the state and local governments, to help our educational institutions means
that in the best of circumstances, it is going to be a weak recovery.
But that means that people are going to be very nervous how long it will take for the economy to fully recover. And because they will be nervous,
they will be acting, as you suggested, in a precautionary way. And that's a vicious circle because they are acting in a more precautionary way, they
won't be consuming as much, they won't be investing as much and the economic weaknesses as a result will persist longer than otherwise would
have been the case.
ASHER: The U.K. is bordering on a second wave. There has been a significant number of cases that have increased in recent days. Every country has to
ask themselves how on Earth do they balance the financial pain of a lockdown with the prolonged economic pain of a dramatic spike in cases? How
do you sort of deal with that as a national economy?
STIGLITZ: Well, looking across the economies all over the world, there is a very, very clear pattern, maybe one or two exceptions. The countries that
have brought the disease under control, have managed to resuscitate the economy. The countries that have not brought the pandemic under control
have not been able to resuscitate the economy, and the economies just get weaker and weaker.
So New Zealand, South Korea, even China have done a very good job of controlling the disease and their economies are doing reasonably well.
The United States and the U.K. have not done a good job in controlling the disease. So I would like to make it very clear. It's not the lockdown that
is causing the slowdown in the economy. It's fear.
You know, in the Great Depression, FDR said, "We have nothing to fear but fear itself," but the reality is in the middle of a pandemic, we fear for
our life and we have fear about the future of the economy because we know that if people are afraid, the economy can't be strong.
So that's, to me, the first priority should be our lives and is protection of -- control of disease that will be the mechanism by which we get our
economy going.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
ASHER: All right. Still to come here, the head of Africa's C.D.C. tells CNN the continent has made huge strides when it comes to COVID.
And a new effort to stop panic buying in Britain as coronavirus cases surge. We are live in London with you next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
ASHER: The World Health Organization is warning of a worrying increase in coronavirus cases in Europe, saying a lot must be done get the surge under
control.
Countries across the European Union are seeing the number of new cases rise. Today, France eased off its daily record high just a bit, but it also
recorded a total of more than 500,000 cases for the first time.
In the U.K., two major supermarket chains are now limiting the sale of some essential items in an effort to prevent a new round of panic buying.
Cyril Vanier is in London for us. So Cyril, when you look at the number of cases in Europe, several countries are reporting new record daily highs, in
the U.K. it is about 7,000 cases a day or just under. In France, it is twice that amount. What is at stake, particularly for the U.K. economy,
that has already been through so much as this new round of restrictions take place?
CYRIL VANIER, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, look, the U.K. and certainly, the British government and the British people were hoping that the economy
would pick up. Stores are open now, but they are not seeing as many customers and as much in terms of volumes of purchases as they were pre-
pandemic. And they were hoping these would keep picking up as they had been over the summer.
Now, what they are seeing with restrictions being tightened is, well, the fear of a very hard winter to come. That's what the Chancellor here called
it, Rishi Sunak. He in fact announced a new set of financial measures just as the old furlough scheme was set to expire.
He is announcing new measures whereby people who will see their hours reduced will see their loss in pay partly compensated by the government and
by their employers, which tells you that, you know, the British government did not want to be here. They hoped they would be over the hump by now, but
they are not and they are anticipating a very tough six months ahead.
They really want to avoid having a second national lockdown, but they have not ruled it out. And they know that they are going to have to help their
economy. They had to deliver some bad news to pubs, restaurants, and the hospitality sector in general earlier this week by imposing a 10:00 p.m.
curfew.
They know that there are going to be job losses, Zain, they are just trying to mitigate the pain at this stage.
[15:20:26]
ASHER: And so just in terms of, as they try to medicate the pain, just in terms of when the U.K. economy will end up turning a corner, when the
restrictions can be lifted, is there a target they are waiting for? Is there a number of daily cases they are looking for in order to actually
ease off some of the restrictions?
VANIER: I am afraid not. Or certainly, if that target exists, then we, the general public are not privy to it and neither are the media. But really,
my hunch, Zain, is that they don't have a specific target.
Look, there hasn't been -- the British government hasn't been a model of organization over the last two weeks. It was only a couple of week ago that
they were telling people to go back to work, that they were telling stores to reopen fully. They were telling people to buy.
And now they are telling people, well, the exact opposite. They are telling people who can to stay away from their offices. They are shutting down pubs
and restaurants. So they are -- improvising is not the word, but they are treading water and they are imposing new measures as they see fit to try
and manage this rise in cases.
But you know, Zain, what is interesting to me is that I just spent six months in France covering COVID over there. France is a month ahead of the
U.K. It was a month ahead of the U.K. when cases were falling and it is a month ahead of the U.K. now that cases are rising.
I just looked at French numbers a month ago, they were almost exactly what the U.K. numbers are. So I think, we can learn from the French lesson which
is if stricter measures are not imposed fast in the U.K., then you are going the see these numbers keep rising. The 6,000 case that we saw today
could very well be the 16,000 plus cases that we saw in France yesterday in a month from now.
ASHER: That is a scary possibility. Cyril Vanier live for us there in London. Thank you so much.
In Africa, it is a different story from most of the other parts of the world. The Director of the African Centers for Disease Control and
Prevention says that the case count and death toll are much less than anticipated.
The World Health Organization is hailing the African response and says new coronavirus cases in Africa are actually on a downward trend right now in
fact when compared with the European Union. The continent has seen only about half the total number of cases.
David McKenzie, our correspondent based in South Africa sat down with the head of the African Centers for disease control. He says up to 80 percent
of cases in Africa are asymptomatic. He also says, progress is being made across Africa while warning against complacency.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
DR. JOHN NKENGASONG, DIRECTOR, AFRICA CENTRES FOR DISEASE CONTROL AND PREVENTION: I think there is a lesson to be learned from the continent that
those predictions were not based on any solid assumption, they were based on historical standing of the continent, which is flawed as we have seen in
this current pandemic.
We have seen more in that -- it indicated that by this time, about 40 million people would be infected in Africa with 200,000 deaths. We haven't
seen that. But the reasons are just obvious.
One was the early leadership that the continent took to coordinate the efforts and really at the level of each individuals to take drastic
measures. If you recall, many countries in Africa are still on a lockdown. We are beginning to see the curves are bending nicely. We have seen a
sustained to 10 to 12 percent decrease over all in the continent over the last couple of weeks. I think that is good.
We are not yet at a point to celebrate. We are not complacent at all. But we need to acknowledge that progress -- a remarkable progress that has been
achieved.
DAVID MCKENZIE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: There is still a lack of testing on the continent and the perception of a lack of data to really understand how
this disease is affecting various countries.
Is there just a hidden pandemic that is not seen? Are there people dying that we don't know about across the African continent on a large scale?
NKENGASONG: Absolutely not. What is critical, actually, David, is that the level of asymptomatic, the proportion of individuals that have been
infected and they have not fallen sick in the content is very high, it is about 80 percent. And I think that is very, very important.
So that means we are not seeing people dying off in mass numbers as it was predicted. I think that is the very good news, and this is informed based
on data.
MCKENZIE: Why do you think some people find that hard to believe, even if the data backs it up?
NKENGASONG: I can understand that because of the massiveness of what we are seeing in the west, in Europe and the United States. We should also
remember that our population structure is very different from what you see in the U.S. and also Europe.
More than 70 percent of our population is less than 30 years. Median age is actually around 17 to 18 years and I think that is really an important
factor to put into the equation in our understanding of the levels of deaths in the United States or Europe versus Africa. I think that is -- my
assumption is that many more people will be infected in Africa, but the deaths will continue to be relatively low.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
[15:25:47]
ASHER: All right, still to come, Facebook's Supreme Court for Content Moderation is set to hear its first case next month. I will speak with one
of its leaders, next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
ASHER: Hello, everyone. I'm Zain Asher. Coming up on the next half hour of QUEST MEANS BUSINESS, I will speak to the co-chair of Facebook's
Independent Oversight Board on a day a rival Board was set up to challenge it.
And the head of Microsoft's Xbox tells me what he thinks gaming will look like after the pandemic.
Before that though, this is CNN, and on this network, the facts always come first.
The United States has surpassed seven million cases of coronavirus. Earlier this week, it also reached 200,000 deaths from the pandemic. The U.S. leads
the world in both metrics by a wide margin followed by Brazil and India.
North Korean leader Kim Jong-un is apologizing for the fatal shooting of a South Korean government worker who crossed the two countries maritime
border. In a letter to South Korea's Blue House, Kim Jong-un says the incident is a great disappointment and an unseen misfortune.
[15:30:10]
Breonna Taylor's mother says she's angry with the way her daughter's shooting has been handled. She says the Kentucky Attorney General's
announcements only reassured her of her lack of faith in the legal system.
One officer was charged with wanton endangerment, but none of the three officers involved faced any charges directly relating to Taylor's death.
The personal trainer of Ruth Bader Ginsburg paid his respects to the late Supreme Court Justice by doing pushups in front of her casket. Ginsburg is
the first woman and Jewish person to ever lie in state at the U.S. Capitol. She'll be buried at Arlington National Cemetery next week.
With less than six weeks to go until the U.S. election, social media companies are coming under increased pressure to flag false stories and
videos. CNN's Donie O'Sullivan reports from Minnesota on the impact of misinformation on some Trump supporters.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
DONIE O'SULLIVAN, CNN BUSINESS REPORTER: So, you come to a Trump rally in Bemidji, Minnesota today to ask Trump supporters what they see when they
open their Facebook feeds.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No one has been more wrong more often than Biden.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: In the November 3rd election result may never be accurately determined.
O'SULLIVAN: On that post. Is there any label or fact check or anything?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes, they have a little thing at the bottom that says voting by mail has a long history of trustworthiness in the U.S.
O'SULLIVAN: Are you a Facebook user?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I use Facebook, yes.
O'SULLIVAN: What sort of pages do you follow on there?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Anybody that agrees with me.
O'SULLIVAN: Only people that agree with you? You don't want to hear --
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: -- be a Republican and anti-abortion guy and pro-gun and pro-beer.
O'SULLIVAN: Did you not think it would be good to follow some pages of people who disagree with, see their opinion?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No, because they call me stupid, ignorant. You know, why would I follow people that throw rocks at me constantly because they don't
agree with me? I got tens of thousands of people that do.
O'SULLIVAN: So, Trump, his campaign, a lot of senior Republicans over the past few weeks have been sharing doctored and manipulated videos on social
media.
Now, the Trump campaign and Trump supporters will often say, these videos are clearly jokes, they are memes, people know their memes. People know
they're fake.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: When they say, well, this is fact checked. It's wrong because it's taken out of context. Like when Joe Biden fell asleep during a
live interview on television.
O'SULLIVAN: Claimed that he fell asleep. I think that was an edited one, right? That was --
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I didn't think it was. It looked pretty live to me with no cuts in it.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Joining us live this morning from New York. Hi, good morning.
Wake up. Wake up, wake up. OK, this is your wake up call.
O'SULLIVAN: Is this the video that you're talking about?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Could be, yes. Can I watch it really quick?
O'SULLIVAN: Sure.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The Washington Post? Yes.
O'SULLIVAN: So an article there is saying that it was faked, but it looked real, right? I mean, it looked real.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Well, I mean, I definitely wouldn't doubt that it would happen.
O'SULLIVAN: Even if it is fake. Does it change your opinion of Biden?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: God, no. You got to sift through it. I missed that one. But it was a good laugh. It was a really good laugh. And like I said, I
wouldn't doubt it.
O'SULLIVAN: A lot of people we spoke to today are sharing posts on Facebook. That later get fact checked by Facebook's third-party fact
checkers.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Anything I put on there about our president is generally only on for a few minutes and then all of a sudden, they're fact
checking me saying this that the other thing which I know is not true. The fact checks are -- there fact checkers wrong.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: They'll right away go to the conservative sites say that's wrong, then they pull it and they're not going to the liberal sites.
And them are the real lies. They're the real liars out there.
O'SULLIVAN: Also circulating online more insidious forms of misinformation, including baseless claims about Vice President Joe Biden being a pedophile.
Do you guys seriously think that Joe Biden's a pedophile?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes, I do. But that's my opinion.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I feel he is, I feel he's part of the game.
O'SULLIVAN: That baseless, fabricated claim about Biden is circulating among supporters of QAnon. The conspiracy theory that the FBI says is a
potential domestic terrorism threat. Some of these false claims have been amplified by the president himself.
The FBI is saying QAnon is a dangerous conspiracy theory. Does that make you think for a second hang on? Should I be following this thing?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No, because if the QAnon is bringing up the bad things about the FBI, that's why they're saying it. That's why they're afraid of
it.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
ASHER: Facebook has called for an independent Oversight Board around content moderation. The group has taken nearly two years to form the plans
to start hearing cases next month.
[15:35:09]
ASHER: Jamal Greene is co-chair of the Facebook Oversight Board. He joins us live now from New York via Skype.
So, your advisory board plans to start hearing cases next month. But do you think at this point, it is too late just based on that report from Donie
O'Sullivan here? Do you think it's too late at this point to stop misinformation from scarring this election?
JAMAL GREENE, CO-CHAIR, FACEBOOK OVERSIGHT BOARD: Well, thanks for having me. We're going to start next month, at least that's the plan right now.
And we're going to start as soon as we're ready to start. There are a number of steps we've taken to try to get ready to get to that point.
Misinformation in the election context is certainly a problem. It's a big problem. It's one that Facebook itself has some responsibility for
addressing and it has been attempting to do so. Whether or not the Oversight Board is going to deal with election related issues or
misinformation, will have to do with the cases that the Oversight Board ends up actually hearing once we get started.
So, it's hard to say exactly what our role is going to be. But once we're up and running, we'll be ready to handle any significant or controversial
content that's within our purview.
ASHER: You know, only this week, we've seen so many examples of cases of misinformation that Facebook has failed to address. The president's son,
Donald Trump Jr. in a Facebook video said that the radical left is laying the groundwork to steal the selection from my father. Then he went on to
say that he was calling for abled bodied people to join an army, an army for election security.
Facebook says that doesn't breach its policies. I mean, what are your thoughts on that? A lot of people would find that quite surprising.
GREENE: I'm sure there'd be lots of different views about what to do with content like that. That's part of the purpose of the board. And when we're
up and running, if there are controversial issues like that, they can be appealed to the board to make those kinds of determinations.
It's really hard to balance, freedom of speech with things like voter suppression, or misinformation or incitement or lots of other harmful
things that people can say, and that's part of the reason the Oversight Board was created.
ASHER: I mean, I agree with you, it certainly is really difficult to balance, as you say, freedom of speech with voter suppression,
misinformation. But just peel back the curtain for us. I mean, how hard is it to really identify cases of misinformation? What are some of the blind
spots do you think that your group will actually come across?
GREENE: So, there are -- there are a lot of different issues relating to content that are within the jurisdiction of the Oversight Board. Those
include incitement, they include hate speech, they include various forms of bullying, public nudity, whether a particular post should be fact checked
by Facebook or not, is also within the purview of the board.
And so, we're going to be dealing with a very wide range of issues. It's hard to say in the abstract, what is going to be difficult and what isn't
going to be difficult. It depends on the specific case.
And one of the things that I'm really excited about with the board, is that we're going to be a deliberative body that actually takes some time with
these issues that talks to stakeholders that looks at the impact that particular decisions might have. And issue is a transparent reason decision
about these things, rather than a quick fire decision just based on one's impressions.
ASHER: Despite the fact that -- you know, that is your intention to be careful and deliberate, which is, of course, admirable. I just want to get
your reaction to the fact that there's been another group of Facebook critics, which have now created a real, real Facebook Oversight Board,
which just sort of shows that there is some concern that either your group is too late, either it's taken too long to form or there's a feeling that
it can't be trusted to do what is needed. Can I get your reaction to that?
GREENE: Well, I welcome efforts by critics of Facebook, including there are lots of critics to Facebook on the -- on the Oversight Board itself. I
welcome efforts by critics to offer additional criticism, to air their views. There are a lot of thoughtful people who are associated with the
real Oversight Board.
And so, I certainly welcome additional information. I think what the Oversight Board does is different because what we're doing is making
decisions on content that are binding on Facebook, and so we have a different purview.
But certainly, the -- you know, the more the merrier from my perspective.
[15:40:01]
ASHER: The U.K.'s former deputy prime minister, Nick Clegg actually spoke with our Brian Stelter. He said some interesting things about Facebook. I
want to play you what he said.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
NICK CLEGG, VICE PRESIDENT, GLOBAL AFFAIRS AND COMMUNICATIONS, FACEBOOK: There's a consistent drumbeat of criticism from the right who feel that
Facebook takes down and moderates too much content and consistent drumbeat of criticism from the left saying that we don't do it enough.
Of course, we understand (INAUDIBLE) that is right and proper. It is right and proper that a company like Facebook, where in a sense, we have to as a
private company try and hold the ring on the way in which a lot of these public, these highly important and highly charged debates take place.
We have to take decisions which are not there to favor one side or the other. We are not there to try and make our side more happy than the other.
And in a sense, we accept that we might make both of them unhappy.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ASHER: Right. So, a lot of people on the right are saying that Facebook is over policing, people on the left are saying that they're not doing enough.
Facebook wants to be a neutral arbiter, they want to go straight down the middle, but you have a lot of misinformation that is actually to be fair,
coming from one side of the political spectrum. Will they end up taking a stand on this do you think?
GREENE: So, I can't speak for Facebook, and what stand it takes about its own neutrality from the perspective of the board. What we're going to be
looking at are Facebook's particular community standards, but also at international human rights law.
So, what we care about in deciding whether something should come up or come down depends both on whether it violates the community standards, but also
on whether it causes -- what causes harm in a way that is recognized by international human rights law.
And so, we're the Oversight Board is also not going to be particularly focused on one side or the other. It's going to be a focus on harm and
wherever that lies, it lies. We're not interested in political -- being politically down the middle. We're interested in conforming the community
standards to international human rights law.
ASHER: All right. Jamal Greene, thank you so much for being on the show.
GREENE: Thank you.
ASHER: Of course. Rio Tinto's destruction of a heritage site in Australia faces fresh criticism. What the mining firm is accused of doing and failing
to do by the size traditional owners. We have that story just ahead.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
ASHER: The traditional owners of a sacred site destroyed by Rio Tinto accused the mining firm of ignoring indigenous concerns and prioritizing
profit. Angus Watson reports from Australia
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
[15:45:10]
ANGUS WATSON, CNN JOURNALIST: A spirit etched into stone enduring here for thousands of years. Imprints of the world's oldest living culture found
near Sydney, but many Indigenous Australians keep to a rule, never reveal the location of a sacred site, share them and they could be destroyed.
MITCHUM NEAVE, GOMEROI ELDER: It's so hard to say, that mountain, how significant is that. Well, it's like a page of a book, if you rip that hill
out, the other hills have lost part of the page. That's a loss of their culture.
WATSON: In May, mining giant Rio Tinto tore a page from a 46,000-year-old book. An internal study proved two rock shelters in Western Australia could
have been an enormous Museum of information, but Rio Tinto had government permission to blow them up in search for iron ore. So it did.
Heads have rolled as a result. Rio Tinto CEO Jean-Sebastien Jacques and two deputies forced to resign after pressure from shareholders. The destruction
of the rock shelters should not have happened, the company has admitted.
But a parliamentary inquiry into the incident heard from an Aboriginal group that says Rio Tinto may retain the legal right to destroy at least
another 124 such places.
The caves that Rio Tinto destroyed earlier this year were just one among countless indigenous sacred sites across Australia. Here in Northern New
South Wales, people from the Gomeroi nation are fighting to save their heritage from a proposed coal mine to be operated by a Chinese company.
The Shenhua Company says its plan for an open cut coal mine here in the fertile Liverpool Plains would add $900 million to the nation's economy
each year.
But on the proposed side are ancient burial grounds and ax grinding grooves that Gomeroi Elder Mitchum Neave likens to a war memorial.
NEAVE: Our burial sites might not have headstones, but it means a lot to us. So, just -- you just need to put the reverse role and say, if there was
a cemetery, if that was a war memorial, but as soon as you go to an indigenous God site, it's not recognized.
WATSON: How does that make you feel about how Aboriginal Australians are treated more generally?
NEAVE: It might be our story or history, but hey, it's part of yours as well. It's your history as well.
WATSON: The state government has granted conditional approval for the coal mine to go ahead. After Shenhua promised to do its best to protect the
sacred sites.
Shenhua has worked closely with relevant agencies and the community to develop a government approved plan that provides for the appreciation of
heritage values within the project boundary, the company told CNN.
Federal Environment Minister Sussan Lee reviewed the state decision last year and declined to intervene. Stating, the expected social and economic
benefits of the Shenhua Watermark Coal Mine to the local community outweighed the impacts of the mind on the applicants as a result of the
likely destruction of parts of their Indigenous cultural heritage.
Lee's office told CNN this week that the case was carefully considered, and the minister's decision was upheld in subsequent legal proceedings.
Profits once again prioritized. Another project guaranteed to remove Indigenous Australians from their heritage, should it go ahead. Angus
Watson in Northern New South Wales, Australia.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
ASHER: Gamers will be able to get their hands on the next generation of consoles this holiday season. We'll hear from the head of Xbox about their
new lineup after the break.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[15:51:26]
ASHER: Welcome back, everybody. The gaming industry has some new players on the way. Amazon announced a cloud gaming service called Luna on Thursday,
it will integrate with Amazon's Fire T.V. hardware, as well as P.C.s, Macs, iPhones and iPads as well.
Meantime, Microsoft is unveiling the next generation of Xbox consoles. They're called the Series X and the Series S. Both of them will be released
on November 10th as an aim to try to catch the holiday shopping season.
I spoke with Xbox head Phil Spencer earlier about how the pandemic has changed their clientele. Take a look.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
PHIL SPENCER, HEAD OF XBOX, MICROSOFT (via Skype): The activity itself, we see it on the network, the engagement is way up. People are finding that
gaming is a great outlet for them and their family when they're isolated at home.
And our job is as always in entertainment is to continue to offer them great games to play at an incredible value. And we're seeing the real
durability of gaming and the growth in gaming happen right now.
ASHER: So, what do you think the role will be on the Xbox Series X in terms of bringing those new customers into the fold and keeping them?
SPENCER: Yes, you know, we're at a time of economic uncertainty for families, we really think about accessibility to gaming, making sure we
have the right price points and the right offers for families. So, this holiday, we're coming out of this fall, we're coming out with two consoles
a Series X which is our premium, 4K console and the Series S which is a much more affordable entry level console. But still with most of the
technology that's in the higher console.
We also have things like Game Pass, which is our gaming subscription, which allows people to build their library for $10.00 a month as opposed to
buying games individually.
So, it's really focused on accessibility, bringing more families in and giving them a great thing to do when they're at home.
ASHER: You've just made the biggest gaming purchase ever with Bethesda. What do you hope all of those new gaming titles will mean for the Xbox?
SPENCER: You know, gamers love to play games. And we know content is a really important part of our strategy. We've invested a lot in our cloud
infrastructure so that we can deliver our Game Pass subscription to consoles, to P.C. and now to mobile phones. We've got a great Xbox Live
service that reaches over 100 million people every month.
And the thing that we're going to continue to invest in is great content for players on our services. We now have over 23 amazing studios delivering
content. So, Xbox customers know that they have a steady stream of great diverse games coming to the portfolio that they can continue to play.
ASHER: We're all talking about the potential for a vaccine, hopefully in the next few months. Once there is a vaccine, once people are actually able
to leave their homes in a more meaningful way, how are you -- what is your strategy for still retaining those new customers that you've worked so hard
to gain over the last six months?
SPENCER: Yes, even before COVID-19 and people working from home, you know, there are nearly three billion people on the planet that play video games,
which is just a staggering number. You know, it's nearly half of the world's population play on some device, whether it's a phone or a gaming
console or a P.C. to nearly $200 billion top line revenue business. And both of those numbers are growing by double digits even before the
pandemic.
So, you know, what you see in the games business is a very durable and growing business. The generation that's coming along grew up natively
playing interactive entertainment and it's something that they rely on for diversion and community entertainment creativity.
[15:55:09]
SPENCER: So, you know, I'm really obviously bullish on the durability of gaming, but we just see it. We see that this is a growing entertainment
category bigger than almost any other entertainment category out there. And we're bringing in more and more gamers every day.
ASHER: Right Phil Spencer, live for us. Thank you so much. Appreciate it.
SPENCER: Thank you.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ASHER: All right, trading is almost done for the week on Wall Street. And let me tell you, it's certainly been a very volatile, very choppy week. The
Dow is on track for four straight weeks of losses. Although it is up today, around 350 points, we'll have the closing bell and the final numbers next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
ASHER: All right, it is the last few minutes of trade on Wall Street for the week. Let's take a look and see how the Dow is doing. It's up about 370
points or so. Certainly, a bright finish to a very choppy, volatile week today has been buoyed by tech stocks, particularly Amazon, and Facebook as
well.
But there have been so many headwinds for the markets, including, of course, the U.S. election and uncertainty surrounding that and the
stimulus. Will Congress get a deal done before November 3rd? And of course, the pandemic, with all of that, all of those headwinds, you've had four
straight weeks of losses on the Dow.
Let's take a look at the Dow 30. Today, we're seeing big gains for Apple and Microsoft. A surge in Boeing shares has allowed it to recoup much of
the week's losses. UnitedHealth Group is in the mix there as well, trailing the index. We've got Nike giving back some of their gains this week and Dow
Chemical as well.
Stocks in Europe. Let's take a look and see how they did. They ended the week mixed the FTSE 100 in London eked out a gain on Friday. Frankfurt in
Paris were lower. Europe is contending with new restrictions fighting to contain a second wave of coronavirus cases. You've got daily cases in the
U.K. around 6,000. And in France, that number is double that around 16,000.
And that is QUEST MEANS BUSINESS. I'm Zain Asher in New York. "THE LEAD" is up next.
ANNOUNCER: This is CNN Breaking News.
JAKE TAPPER, CNN HOST: Welcome to "THE LEAD", I'm Jake Tapper.
END
