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Quest Means Business
Trump And Biden Face Off In First President Debate; LVMH Accuses Tiffany Of Mismanagement Of Business; Trump Suggests Further Tax Cuts And Credits For Second Term; Merkel Announces New Measures To Counter COVID-19 In Winter; Jamie Carragher Fears "Armageddon" For Football; Biden Vows To Raise Taxes For High-Income Individuals, Corporation. Aired 3-4p ET
Aired September 29, 2020 - 15:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[15:00:13]
RICHARD QUEST, CNN INTERNATIONAL ANCHOR: There is 60 minutes left of trading on Wall Street. The start of a new week, it will be an important
and telling week.
And for the markets, it is quiet today, but there are so many thing to digest, even the early losses. Well, you had a gain, you have got losses
and now back to pretty much zero. The markets and what is happening. The reasons why.
Debate night in the United States. Joe Biden throws down the gauntlet even before it has begun, releasing his latest tax return whilst no doubt there
will be questions on President Trump's and how much he has paid.
In Germany, Angela Merkel says it is time for urgent action as she unveils new coronavirus restrictions.
And Tiffany's. The merger with LVMH, it has gone from the Board room to the court room.
Live, as you can tell, from New York, the start of a new week, Monday, it is the 29th of September. I'm Richard Quest. And yes, I mean business.
A very good evening to you, a warm welcome. Joe Biden and Donald Trump will debate tonight in the U.S., 9:00 p.m. Eastern Time. That's middle of the
night in Europe.
It will be their first debate. And obviously, as one would expect, the stakes are very high. The stage is being set in Cleveland, Ohio in the
American Midwest, with an audience limited in size because of COVID-19.
Joe Biden has already thrown down the gauntlet to Donald Trump. He has released his own tax returns and he is expected to hit Donald Trump very
hard on the "New York Times" reports which continued today into questions of just how much tax Donald Trump paid and where did the money come from
and go to?
As for Donald Trump, he is en route to Cleveland. The campaign says he is more than prepared.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TIM MURTAUGH, TRUMP 2020 CAMPAIGN COMMUNICATIONS DIRECTOR: So the President is ready, and we expect to see Joe Biden very ready, too. You know, he has
been doing this for 47 years.
He knows his way around the debate stage. He managed the defeat two dozen Democrat challengers, and in 11 debates in the Democratic primaries, he did
very well. So, the President will be ready.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
QUEST: Arguably, tonight's format is appropriate, perhaps, for two men who don't probably like each other that much. There is not much comedy between
Trump and Biden.
And because of COVID, there are no frills. The format has a no frills format. There are no handshakes, no opening statements, and there is no
spin room to allow for proper social distancing.
The candidates will have two minutes for each answer. There will be six broad topics, their individual records, the Supreme Court, COVID-19, the
economy, race and violence in American cities, and election integrity.
Arlette Saenz is with us at the debate site in Cleveland. She joins me now.
So, this is -- I mean, the expectations are high. They have been lowered for Joe Biden. I wonder, what are you expecting tonight?
ARLETTE SAENZ, CNN POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, I think Joe Biden and President Trump have sparred from afar for over a year now. But this will
be the first time we actually see them go after each other on stage as they are trying to make their case in person to voters.
We know that both of the candidates have been preparing for this debate in their own way. Biden reading through briefing books and really diving into
his debate prep over the past few days with his advisers as he has been home in Wilmington, Delaware.
Now one of the people leading Biden's debate prep is a man named Ron Klain, who actually ran Hillary Clinton's debate prep against President Trump back
in 2016. So he understands what it is like to have a candidate facing up against the President.
Now, for the President's part, he has done a little bit less formal preparations. He has been studying some possible lines of attack. He said
that Rudy Giuliani and Chris Christie have played Biden at times when they are tossing around questions for a possible debate.
But really, this debate is going to potentially going to offer the ultimate contrast to voters between Biden and President Trump.
Biden has said that he believes a lot of the attacks will turn personal, and the President has shown a willingness to do that at times.
Now, as you mentioned, one thing that Joe Biden did today was release his tax returns for 2019. This actually totals up 22 years of tax returns that
Biden has released over the years as they are trying to really seize on that "New York Times" report about the President's own taxes and the little
that he paid back in 2016 and 2017.
The Biden campaign believes that that story feeds into their narrative they have been trying to sell for this campaign that it is one between Scranton
and Park Avenue that they are looking to take on the President.
[15:05:11]
QUEST: All right, Arlette, thank you. Arlette Saenz joining us from there.
The candidates have different approaches to preparation as Arlette was just saying. Donald Trump is known as a freestyler. He just likes to go it his
own way. And as we saw with Hillary Clinton four years ago, that can often be crude, rude, and vulgar.
However, the White House Press Secretary says the President is ready.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
KAYLEIGH, MCENANY, WHITE HOUSE PRESS SECRETARY: The President has had a few prep sessions with Mayor Rudy Giuliani, Governor Chris Christie. This
morning, he will be making his way out over to Ohio here in the afternoon. Getting ready, those last-minute preparations.
But, really, what the President does is prepare each and every day when he takes grueling questions from the White House Press Corps. He is the most
transparent President in history. He has had more preparation than anyone just on the day-to-day basis of doing his briefings, his gaggles and other
forms of questioning.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
QUEST: Joe Biden is more traditionalist in the way he goes about things, as you heard with long amounts of preparation helped by the team which
included the former Michigan Governor, Jennifer Granholm who stood in as Sarah Palin during Biden's 2008 debate preparations. Also stood in as
Elizabeth Warren in Biden's debate preparations earlier this year.
The former governor is with me now, Jennifer Granholm is with me now from Oakland, California. Thank you, Madam Governor.
So, first of all, how do you imagine he is going to be preparing, the Vice President, but at the same time recognizing he doesn't want to become so
enmeshed in detail that the bombast of the President overwhelms?
JENNIFER GRANHOLM, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Yes, I think that's a really good point is that you have to recognize you have got two minutes to
answer a question.
What are the most important things you want to get out that you want the people to hear? It's not a candidate who spends all of his time for
example, fact checking his opponent. It is not talking to the voters who he wants to convey his plan to. It should be about them, and not necessarily
about Donald Trump unless it's a contrast that's very important to the people.
So, for example, on healthcare, I mean, it's really important to people that they have access to healthcare and Joe Biden has got to let people
know this Supreme Court pick, for example, could take away millions of people's healthcare.
So it's a balance. But you don't want to spend all of your time in the weeds. You want to address the most important things, and you do not want
to be the fact checker in chief.
QUEST: And that's the danger here, isn't it? Because the President -- the President will issue an enormous number of facts about Biden's position on
healthcare, on wanting to defund police, for example, on foreign affairs. He will want to paint Joe Biden as so far left as communist. And Biden
either lets it go or he has to rebut. What's best strategy?
GRANHOLM: Yes, I think first of all when you said he is going to be issuing a lot of facts. The President is not going to be issuing a lot of facts.
There will be a lot of lies that he says.
And so I think it is Joe Biden -- important for Joe Biden to state at the outset, objective fact checkers have found that you have issued 22,000 lies
since you have been President. By the end of this debate, it will be 22,050, so that was just another one.
Here's the truth. Here's my plan. So I think that you've got to set from the outset that you know there is going to be lies coming from the
President and then, go forward and talk about your plan.
QUEST: But what about the fact that Joe Biden, very clever man that he is, and extremely experienced. He works best in small groups with a much more
folksy image, which is true, but he is hardly a smooth orator and his ability the trip over his own sentences does give the appearance of grandpa
who is addled.
GRANHOLM: I think that you will see a very focused Joe Biden tonight. What you saw in the primaries, for example, when he is on stage with 10 of his
family members, if you will, is a much different scenario than when he is one-on-one.
So, for example, he was one-on-one with Bernie Sanders, and he did really well. It's also really different when you are one-on-one with an adversary,
with someone whose value you fundamentally disagree with.
That gets you focused in a way that taking incoming from people who largely you agree with does not do.
So this is going to be a different scenario. He is prepared, he is ready, and he is going to be good.
[15:10:16]
QUEST: How do you handle -- how would you suggest handling the fact that you are debating the President of the United States? So there has to be an
element of due deference to that post. But at the same time, he is no longer the President. He is a political candidate, and therefore, fair game
for all.
GRANHOLM: Yes, I think they have to be seen as equals on this stage. You respect your opponent no matter whether they are challenger or whether they
are in office. You have to demonstrate that respect for the office. However, if Donald Trump is stating lies that are not -- that are
themselves not worthy of respect, you have to knock them down.
You have to be able to go to bat for people and not allow his office to dissuade you from attacking. If you have got attack, attack.
QUEST: Right. Now, come on, Governor, a bit of soul-searching here, tonight, having done -- having been involved in his prep, will you be on
the edge of your seat watching ...
GRANHOLM: Yes.
QUEST: ... screaming at the television, no, don't say that. No, we told you -- hang on, he's getting there. What do you do when you are watching
the prepped person perform?
GRANHOLM: Well, let's just be clear. I didn't prep him for this debate. I prepped him in the primary.
QUEST: right.
GRANHOLM: But nonetheless, I sure am going to be on the edge of my seat, like everybody else. But I will tell you something, Richard. I do not think
honestly, based upon the polls that have come out in the past week, I'm just not sure that the debates themselves are going to make a heck of a lot
of difference.
There's only between three to seven percent of people who are still undecided, and in the battle ground states, that number is narrower. So I'm
just not sure how much this -- I mean, it is going to be entertaining, but I'm not sure how much in the end will it move people.
QUEST: Governor, great to have you. Thank you. Thank you so much. We appreciate it. We will talk more of course as this whole process goes on so
that we can understand where and what.
Now, the President's -- well, the candidates, their tax plan is front and center. So, we will talk about after the bombshell "New York Times" report
on Donald Trump -- we will hear from his former top economist in just a moment.
And merger romance has hit the rocks. It is Tiffany's and LVMH. Paul La Monica will tell us how it is going to proceed in the courtroom.
It's QUEST MEANS BUSINESS. Good evening to you.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[15:15:32]
QUEST: The breakup of Tiffany's is getting messier by day. You'll remember, of course, LVMH has now backed out of buying Tiffany's in a multibillion
dollar deal, many, many billions of dollars because obviously, they say the French government has certain requirements that they can't meet.
Anyway, LVMH is now counter-suing the jewelry company attempting to back out of the $16 billion acquisition. LVMH says Tiffany's prospects are
dismal and mismanaged during the pandemic.
Paul La Monica is with me. Guru La Monica. All right, Guru, what's really behind this, Paul? What's really -- I mean, is it just that Tiffany's is
not what it once was because of the pandemic and the price was too high?
PAUL LA MONICA, CNN BUSINESS REPORTER: I think that might be part of it, Richard. Clearly, most American retailers aren't what they were before
coronavirus swept over our shores.
But putting that aside, you would have to think that a lot of this could be just wrangling over that $16 billion-plus deal price and maybe LVMH would
still be interested in Tiffany, but they would like to pay less.
To be fair to Tiffany, Tiffany did actually report a return to profitability in its last quarter. So I think there is some credence to the
notion that Tiffany says they are not exactly in as financially dire straits as LVMH is painting them out to be.
And you know, Tiffany's is also taking issue with the whole notion that LVMH only backed out of this deal because the French government asked them
to. There are reports suggesting that the French government only suggested that LVMH pull the plug on the deal after LVMH contacted them first.
QUEST: Where does it end? Because traditionally, in these cases, you get a vision that there is a deal to be done, it is merely the price, and that
old joke, we all know what sort of person you are, we are just arguing about the price.
But in this case, I get the feeling one side really doesn't want to do the deal.
LA MONICA: Yes. I mean, I think LVMH may be having proverbial, you know, cold feet at the marriage altar, if you will, and they may be running away
from this deal and trying to find excuses, be it the French government, be it coronavirus, what have you, to pull out of the deal.
I do think at the end of the day, the Arnault family obviously, that is behind LVMH, one of the wealthiest in the world, they probably would do
this deal at the right price. Tiffany is still a great global brand.
But remember, Richard, Tiffany before agreeing to the LVMH deal reportedly went to Warren Buffett saying, hey, could you come buy us? Berkshire
Hathaway said no. Could Berkshire Hathaway come back in the mix if the price is right? That can be possible. We know that Buffett loves a deal and
he has got mountains of cash, more than $140 billion to do acquisitions, so this drama isn't over by any stretch of the imagination.
QUEST: Paul La Monica, thank you. We will watch that one very closely, indeed.
Ahead of tonight's debate, a Quinnipiac poll has put Joe Biden ahead of Donald Trump in Georgia. Now, this was before -- this was before, of
course, the revelations about Donald Trump's tax affairs, including the fact, apparently, he only paid $750.00 in tax after he became president.
Martin Savidge has been talking to voters about how they view the debate and they view the current state of the race.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
MARTIN SAVIDGE, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice over): At the Marietta Diner in suburban Atlanta, the bombshell of Trump's tax returns is not on the menu.
But it is on the minds of voters.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
IRA PENCE, TRUMP SUPPORTER: That's just a matter of how he runs his business.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SAVIDGE (voice over): The latest polling in Georgia before the news broke showed the race between Trump and Joe Biden a dead heat. Could the
revelation Trump only paid $750.00 in income taxes in 2016 and '17 tilt the balance in Biden's favor?
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SAVIDGE (on camera): Would that make an impact in your judgment of the man?
PETER DUFRESNE, TRUMP SUPPORTER: The man -- the man is not perfect. I know that. I'm not perfect. But I think he's accomplished a whole lot.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SAVIDGE (voice over): One look at Ira Pence tells you who he supports, and he thinks Trump's tax news is a good thing.
[15:20:04]
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
PENCE: I just think that's wonderful. I work very hard at trying to pay as little taxes as is legal.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SAVIDGE (voice-over): And waitress Lynda Trapani doesn't believe the news at all.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
LINDA TRAPANI, TRUMP SUPPORTER: And here we go again. Once again, it's -- first of all, it's from "The New York Times."
NANCY MACHARIA, BIDEN SUPPORTER: Pay their taxes.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SAVIDGE: But at a nearby booth, Nancy Macharia is furious.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
NANCY MACHARIA, BIDEN SUPPORTER: I was shocked.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SAVIDGE: Originally from Kenya, she is a software engineer who says she worked three jobs to get through college and points out Trump often depicts
immigrants as the ones cheating the system.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MACHARIA: We have a lot of immigrants in this country that work very hard for such little money, for such long hours, and that pay their taxes.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SAVIDGE (voice over): Trump's campaign communications director calls "The New York Times" reporting on the President's tax returns completely
inaccurate.
Retired business teacher Lamuriel Adams says Trump's tax returns prove he's no financial genius.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
LAMURIEL ADAMS, BIDEN SUPPORTER: It's a lie. And I worry about that, because we've got young people. I don't know what they think.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SAVIDGE: Polls have shown Trump support from white suburban women in 2020 is not what it was four years ago. But Kathryn Coffee is staying the
course, unfazed by reports Trump lost tens of millions of dollars in bad business deals.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SAVIDGE (on camera): Doesn't this prove that he is not that successful businessman he's claimed to be?
KATHERYN COFFEE, TRUMP SUPPORTER: You can look at it that way. I don't think that would be a measure that he's not a successful businessman.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SAVIDGE: Deana Sloane is something remarkably rare among Georgia voters. Undecided. Polling suggests the percentage of undecided voters in the state
to be in the single digits.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DEANA SLOANE (PH), UNDECIDED VOTER: I'm struggling. I'm struggling this year.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SAVIDGE: Sloane (ph) says Tuesday's presidential debate could be the deciding factor. As for Trump's taxes --
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SAVIDGE (on camera): It doesn't appear that this is necessarily a deal breaker for you.
SLOANE (ph): No. I wish I could say that it was, but it's not.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SAVIDGE (on camera): It's worth pointing out all the people that we talked to for this story, almost no one was surprised by the information reported
about Trump's tax returns. Those who support the President say they either don't believe the news or they consider it insignificant, while those who
are opposed to the President say they suspected all along that he had financial difficulties or even irregularities in his reports. After all,
he's fought so hard to prevent them from going public.
Martin Savidge, CNN, Marietta, Georgia.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
QUEST: Now, you remember, of course, this was the article that started the whole thing. President's tax shows chronic losses, audit battle et cetera
and income tax avoidance. This time in the election, tax policy is not part of -- or a major part of Donald Trump's campaign plans.
Now, the "New York Times" put those plans into something of abeyance.
So we get less detail about what he will do than we did in 2016. The campaign offers bullet points, expand opportunity zones, payroll, tax cut,
reduce capital gains tax, tax credits to bring jobs back from China, tax cuts to keep jobs in the U.S.
Tomas Philipson is the former top economist in the Trump White House. He joins me from Fort Lauderdale in Florida. Before we sort of delve into what
the plans will be, on the revelations that were in the "New York Times" article, do you essentially believe -- I mean, without nitpicking the
details, do you essentially believe they have got it right, that he did only pay that little tax over the last few years and he has got thumping
big losses from his other businesses?
TOMAS PHILIPSON, FORMER TOP ECONOMIST IN THE TRUMP WHITE HOUSE: Well, unlike other people who haven't seen his tax returns and have very strong
opinions on them, I am not going to offer any opinion on that. What I can say is that, basically, what we did in tax reform in 2017 was to try to
close a lot of loopholes in corporate taxes, and people take advantage of those loopholes legally, which the President did. But it's basically not
good for the tax revenue to have a high taxes and a lower tax base, so we tried try to broaden the tax base and lower taxes by having loopholes being
sort of eliminated.
QUEST: As I look at the plans, and having seen the former Vice President's plan, who is quite clear about higher taxes, do you not think there should
be a moment of honesty by the President in that he is also going to have raise taxes?
The level of government spending because of the pandemic means that further tax cuts are irresponsible, and he should be look at tax increases?
[15:25:02]
PHILIPSON: Well, I think if you look at Biden's tax plan, it's really a dramatic, if you want to attack on business. Most of his big revenue
sources come from investor or business taxes. And this is his attempt, essentially to lift the economy. I think that's a reflection of being a
career politician, he and Harris their whole life, and not understanding that this is going to dramatically hurt the economy.
On top of it, I think economic evidence is this sort of Econ 101 that when you attack business, you are really attacking workers. So he is attacking
workers with taxes that are basically going to lower demand for workers which then again will lower wages.
QUEST: Let's stick with what the President is going to do. I would like to know how you think the President is going to raise new revenues, which is
pretty essential other than by trickledown economics, which is something else.
But how is he going to raise new revenues if he is going to try and breach the budget deficit?
PHILIPSON: So, I think, first of all, what the President did in terms of spending is vastly different from what Biden is proposing which is, he
increased spending in an area where the government is the only one who can contribute which is defense. It is what we call public goods in Economics.
It is hard to sell Defense in private stores because everyone is going to want other people to pay.
The plan by Biden is different because he wants to overtake private market activity with government activity. That's the big spending difference if
you look at the depth of the future.
I don't think we need as much military spending going forward because we now ramped up the military in a very productive way in the last few years.
So I think that's -- there is less need in the Trump administration if they go forward to have higher taxes than it is for the Biden administration,
which is really proposing, you know, an enormous increase in spending, which they can't even cover in taxes. They propose $6 trillion to $9
trillion in spending over 10 years.
They are proposing about $3 trillion in taxes. It just shows you that you can finance the socialist programs on the back of the rich.
QUEST: Good to speak to you, sir. Thank you. We will talk more as the election moves into its final days. Thank you. I appreciate it.
In a moment, Angela Merkel is warning of tougher coronavirus measures in Germany as the numbers continue to rise. If the numbers continued go up
every day this winter, thousands could be affected, she says.
We will talk about that after the break, the preventive measures.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[15:31:04]
QUEST: Hello, I'm Richard Quest, there's a lot more QUEST MEANS BUSINESS coming your way in just a moment. The former Liverpool footballer, Jamie
Carragher, tells me the pandemic has taken a devastating toll on English football. You'll hear his views.
And from Nixon and Kennedy to Clinton and Trump, a look at the significance of the debate. And actually, how one manages to debate and not give
anything away. Well, I'll talk about that.
This is CNN. And on this network, we'll have the news headlines first.
The U.N.'s calling it an agonizing milestone and a mind-numbing figure. A number of deaths from coronavirus worldwide has now topped a million. The
U.N. secretary-general says responsible leadership is critical to getting the pandemic under control.
The daily rate of coronavirus positive tests in New York City has risen above three percent for the first time in many months. Mayor Bill de
Blasio, said on Tuesday, people who refuse to wear masks in public will be fined. He said further restrictions could be announced as early as
Wednesday.
The long-time Kuwaiti emir, Sabah al-Ahmad -- al-Sabah, died on Monday at the age of 91. He's led the country for 14 years after serving as its de
facto foreign minister for four decades prior. His half-brother will succeed him after he is sworn in on Wednesday.
Now, it is Germany's turn to announce new measures to handle the rising number of cases in coronavirus. The German Chancellor Angela Merkel said
the following pandemic safety measures would be introduced.
Crowds at public venues limited to 50, people in where there are large numbers of infections. Bars and restaurants who provide false -- bars and
restaurant patrons who provide false contact tracing detail will be fined. And Merkel is warning there could be more than 19,000 new infections per
day in Germany this winter.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ANGELA MERKEL, CHANCELLOR OF GERMANY (through translator): If things continue in the next three months: October, November, December, then we
would rise from 2,400 to 4,800 to 9,600 to 19,200. All I wanted to show is that this is the nature of an exponential rise.
But if the doubling time remains the same, it leads to very high numbers. This underlines the urgency that we act, where we have such an exponential
growth.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
QUEST: Fred Pleitgen is with me in Berlin. OK, Fred, before we get into the new details, you know, I was in the U.K. last week and the numbers have
rocketed up. We're reporting in the news tonight as you would have heard that New York's positivity rate has gone over three percent.
So, in this scenario, Fred, how big and how bad is the situation deteriorating in Germany?
FREDERIK PLEITGEN, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, I think, Richard, in Germany right now, the situation is deteriorating to a point
but certainly not the kind of deterioration that you've seen. For instance, in some of the other countries in Europe, and of course, for instance,
apparently, in New York right now as well.
If you look at the number of new infections here in Germany, it's been hovering around about 2,000 per day for the past week. But it certainly has
gone up from its sort of lowest point, which was around June, maybe early July when it was around 300 per day.
So, that's certainly something that is cause for alarm for Angela Merkel as she put out that calculation that we just heard there. And I think what the
Germans are really trying to do and what Angela Merkel is really trying to do is kind of stay ahead of the virus. Stay ahead of the game to make sure
that they don't get into a situation where they have to commit to possibly another lockdown.
[15:35:03]
PLEITGEN: That's one of the things that Angela Merkel today said as well. She said they absolutely want to prevent another lockdown, they want to
prevent, for instance, the economy having to close again.
Because, of course, one of the things that's been happening here is that the Germans have managed to prevent, for instance, large unemployment by
taking certain measures. But, of course, this country's money is also limited. And if they would have to do another lockdown, it would certainly
be highly detrimental to the economy, and then, of course, the society as well. They also said another school lockdown would be devastating.
QUEST: Right.
PLEITGEN: So, I think what they're trying to do is targeted measures to make sure that a lockdown can be avoided, Richard.
QUEST: Fred Pleitgen, we will follow this closely. Fred, thank you for joining us this evening.
To English Premier League football now, which is facing a crisis and just to hold an emergency meeting. The cash crisis is due to the restrictions on
fans, of course, attending games. At the top of the Premier League, perhaps it's not so significant where there are large amounts of money that comes
from football sponsorship.
But further down the Premier League and in those non-league clubs, well, there really is a serious crisis that could eventually lead to clubs going
out of business.
The Liverpool football legend Jamie Carragher told me that COVID could be Armageddon for football.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
JAMIE CARRAGHER, FORMER LIVERPOOL FOOTBALLER: It almost feels like the city was born for football. In some ways, it's -- I think it is the biggest
thing that this city is probably known for around the world alongside The Beatles obviously.
But I think the football clubs keep the city going in terms of interest, in terms of finance coming into the city, you know. We've got Liverpool, we
also got Everton as well. And certainly, Liverpool on European nights, the people that come from all over to -- you know, see Liverpool European
night. They're filling hotels, they're filling restaurants -- you know, the taxis to and from the ground.
So, it's in a -- it's a huge thing for the, you know, economic situation of Liverpool.
(CROSSTALK)
QUEST: Right, let's -- Liverpool had a really good -- yes, Premier League. What was the reason, what call, what was behind it?
CARRAGHER: It was special. I mean, obviously, the situation with the COVID- 19, it was difficult because the supporters couldn't be in the stadium to really embrace it and enjoy it. But certainly, there's a lot of an
enjoyment, a lot of alcohol consumed because they've been such a long wait.
But I think the feeling is one title is not enough for this team. This is a really special team that people have now. A special iconic manager and
Jurgen Klopp. And I think we all believe there's more to come.
QUEST: On COVID, how serious is the situation affecting clubs now.
CARRAGHER: You just -- you just fear in Armageddon, you really are. For some of these teams near the bottom, I don't know how they're going to
survive. We always feel they'll find a way.
This comes up at different times, a certain club is struggling financially. It may go out to business, they never do. There's always someone comes to
the rescue. Always someone there maybe even the supporters of their own club rally around.
This is completely different. This is -- this is affecting every club. Even the top ones in the country not as badly, of course, in the Premier League.
But the lower down the leagues you go, same with the situation with COVID, no supporters coming into grounds, that's the livelihood.
The Premier League doesn't rely on supporters as much now, it's more sponsorship money. T.V. rights all around the world so that they can
survive. But if some teams lower down the pyramid, have not got supporters going into their grounds, they can't survive.
QUEST: Because the money's in the T.V. rights. Matchday receipts only really truly benefits the smaller clubs.
CARRAGHER: I mean the only thing you look at now is -- you look at the club's lower down, the only thing that this may help in the future is that
there's actually wage caps, there's only so much money you can spend, and those type of rules may be coming.
They're starting to come in because they won't be able to survive because a lot of clubs are in danger. The ones who are in more danger are the ones
who've been reckless over the last few years financially and spend the money they haven't got because they're all desperate to join the gravy
train of the Premier League.
And that's what they do. They overspend, they put the clubs at risk, because they know if they hit the jackpot and get in the Premier League,
everything's OK, and that's a big problem.
QUEST: Sounds weird talking about somebody retiring at 35. It really does. But you retired and pulled yourself back into the city.
CARRAGHER: I always remember someone quoting. I played and was finishing, and he said, leave the football before the football leaves you basically.
And that always stuck in my head. But, I think being a local player, you're so entwined with the club, you're emotionally attached to the club more
than you would be if you lived outside, or I played for another club.
So, you're always wary and thinking of how the supporters are thinking. And you don't want to be certainly leave on a sour note. And I wanted to leave
when the supporters were still saying, yes, he's good enough to play for Liverpool, not when the supporters were saying, he's not good enough.
[15:39:57]
CARRAGHER: So, selfishly, I think I could have played for another probably 12, 18 months -- maybe two years. But I wanted to go at that time and not
almost want Liverpool supporters to see a team sheet with my name on and think, oh, no, he's playing. I hope he wasn't playing. You know, I didn't
want that because of the club and the attachment to it emotionally.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
QUEST: Jamie Carragher, there. Absolutely delightful to meet him and interview him. And if you're wondering why I'm wearing an apron, well,
you'll have to watch "WORLD'S OF WONDER". "QUEST'S WORLD OF WONDER". Jamie and I were doing over the cooking. But what we'll be cooking? How are we
cooking it? You'll find out next month on "WORLD'S OF WONDER".
Taxes take the center stage at the debate tonight. The allegation -- I'm going to use it again and again. And maybe because I remember to keep
yesterday's newspaper. And the allegation what the president does or does not pay on his taxes when we come back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
QUEST: Our top story tonight, Joe Biden has released his tax returns for 2019, and the hours before the debate where the amount of money the
president pays or doesn't pay in taxes will be front and center.
Tonight will be a tale of two tax plans where the president is talking about cutting capital gains and cutting taxes, whereas, Joe Biden will be
making it quite clear, he's all about raising taxes to help pay the costs of the pandemic.
He's going to raise taxes for anyone making more than 400K a year. Corporation tax will rise to 28 percent up from 21. Tax credits for working
families to pay for childcare, buy a home, or for companies to build job growth in the U.S.
Ben Harris is the former chief economist to the vice president. He joins me from Arlington, Virginia via Skype.
I've read the president -- the vice president's tax plan. If only to see how it's going to affect my own taxes, which clearly would go up by the
vice president's measure. Well, that's all fair enough, but it's a bit of a (INAUDIBLE).
I mean, he -- he's basically hoping, isn't he, that people don't vote their pocketbook this time round.
BEN HARRIS, FORMER CHIEF ECONOMIST TO VICE PRESIDENT BIDEN: No, I think he hopes very much that people vote their pocketbook. He is committed to not
raising taxes on anyone making less than $400,000, which is the line share of American families.
For middle class families, he's laid out 18 separate middle-class tax cuts. Everything from a boost in the amount that taxpayers get for having a kid,
for the child tax credit up to $3,000. 15,000 for the purchase of a home and a whole host of other tax credits for the middle class.
(CROSSTALK)
QUEST: Right.
[15:45:13]
HARRIS: But for people making more than $400,000, he's committed to using revenue from things like boosting the capital gains rate or boosting the
corporate rate from 21 to 28 percent to pay for a pretty large swath of investments in the middle class.
The idea is not to be punitive on people making more than $400,000, the idea is to use that revenue to invest the American economy. Things like
free community college and infrastructure.
(CROSSTALK)
QUEST: But, but, Ben -- How will he handle --
HARRIS: Yes, because I think that grown economy --
QUEST: Right. But how would you advise him to handle the Trump tax question about his own -- about the president's tax affairs?
HARRIS: Well, when it comes to their own tax affairs, I think the answer is just be honest. You know, every president going back decades has released
their tax returns. If you're leading a country, you have a commitment to be transparent and to let the people who are voting for you, or who look to
you to make decisions to know what your finances are like.
With that bombshell New York Times report that came out, there were sort of two big takeaways from that. The first is, is that either Trump is a
massive tax cheat and has no problem shifting the burden on the American (INAUDIBLE) class, or he's a terrible businessman.
I mean, one of those two things has to be true. The other concern from the perspective of the American people has got to be, do you want someone
leaving your country who's half a billion dollars in debt?
I mean, I don't know how someone goes that deep in debt on their own personal business, but that's got to sort of roil your decision-making, and
that type of financial instability is not what you want at the leader of a country.
QUEST: Do you think that -- I mean, in 2016, taxes was an issue, both at the corporate level and at the individual level. Do you see it -- taxes as
being a strong quiver in the vice president's armory?
HARRIS: So, the vice president is not taxing just to tax. He's not taxing to be punitive; he's taxing to pay for his initiatives. And so, what's he
doing? He's doing things like making college free for every middle-class family. He's doing things like the -- this massive $1 trillion investment
in U.S. infrastructure. $400 billion to reassure supply chains.
Those are the things people care about because those are the type of things that lead to more jobs. Those are the things that relieve middle class
families of debt, they don't have to go into debt just to send their kids to school. And those are the type of things that make us more productive.
So, I think those are things that people care about, and I think people will respond to that.
QUEST: Ben, thank you for joining us.
(CROSSTALK)
HARRIS: My pleasure, thank you for having me.
QUEST: Ben Harris, professor at the Kellogg School of Management.
Now, still ahead, there's everything to play for. Well, the debate -- the history of presidential debates, which really does go back to Nixon and
Kennedy. But, as you heard earlier in the program, did they make any difference? Do they merely reinforce the committed and change nobody's
minds, after the break.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[15:50:53]
QUEST: Debate takes place tonight. Record viewing numbers are to be expected, but the tradition of all of this, well, that goes back to 1960.
You have to think of this, maybe the first of this particular political season.
But in 1960, it was Kennedy versus Nixon. And remember the old adage, those who watched on T.V. thought Kennedy won. Those who listened on the radio
thought Nixon had won.
A landmark moment in television, there are the stares, the size, the stalking, and iconic moments.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Mr. Nixon, would you like to comment on that statement?
RICHARD NIXON, FORMER PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: I have no comments.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes, how has the national debt personally affected?
GEORGE BUSH, FORMER PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: He's practicing fuzzy math again. There is differences.
HILLARY CLINTON, FORMER FIRST LADY OF THE UNITED STATES: What we can take to try to get those costs down?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
QUEST: All right, Brian Stelter's with me. Brian, Ronald Reagan was brilliant when he did the, there you go again, in his -- in his debates.
What's the secret here?
BRIAN STELTER, CNN CHIEF MEDIA CORRESPONDENT: Well, the X factor is Donald Trump. So, the secret for Joe Biden is going to be figuring out how best to
interact with Trump on stage, given the president's conduct that's so unusual. Given his tendency to lie through his teeth.
This is going to be a debate that, you know, it's very hard to practice for because the current president is such an unusual debater, such an unusual
character. But Biden, of course, was in the Senate for so long. It's known as the greatest debating hall in the world. So, if anybody has had practice
with this, it is Joe Biden.
And I think Trump has made a mistake by sometimes lowering the bar for Biden, making it sound like Biden doesn't know what he's doing, doesn't
have his head on straight, because it sets the expeditions lower for Biden and higher for Trump.
QUEST: But I do wonder, you know, and I was watching earlier some of the Hillary Clinton, the asides from --
(CROSSTALK)
STELTER: Yes.
QUEST: The asides from Trump nasty woman, basically, (INAUDIBLE), do you think he will do that with or even call Biden sleepy Joe to his face?
STELTER: That's a really interesting point. I think, the obvious -- the big difference everyone see is, is the gender difference. The dynamic between a
man and woman is different than Trump versus another man.
But oftentimes, you're right. It is those asides and comments and shrugs and eye rolls that are remembered. Trump has those down to a T. He is the
build the wall guy, he's the slogan guys, all about slogans that are repeated over and over again.
I'm curious to see how much Biden is able to do that as well. How much he's able to bring that approach to this debate, given that Biden has tendency
to give longer answers and to give more in-depth answers during these debates.
Last year -- not last year. Four years ago, the very first debate was a record-setter in terms of the ratings. 84 million viewers. That's the most-
watched political event in U.S. history.
I don't think this can top it, but a lot of smarter people than me, say it can. A lot of T.V. executives think this will break last -- the last
season's record. And that just speaks to how much interest there is in either seeing Trump go down or in seeing Biden challenged by Trump.
QUEST: Right.
STELTER: You know, there are partisans on both sides that have been waiting for years with us.
STELTER: Brian, your favorite debate moment ever. Who, what, for you is the -- is the best debate moment you can remember?
STELTER: That is interesting. I -- it's hard to think past 2016 because having Trump on that stage was so surprising, so incredible. There were
times when Trump was up there completely misleading people.
QUEST: Right.
STELTER: And Hillary Clinton would try to step on it, would try to stand up to him. And I don't think she ever succeeded in doing that. So, will Biden
fact check Trump tonight? I think that's a big question.
(CROSSTALK)
QUEST: Yes.
STELTER: Maybe Biden is going to come out at the very beginning and say, don't believe the word he says. Maybe that's the tactic.
QUEST: For me, it's -- I knew Brian Stelter. Brian Stelter was my friend.
(CROSSTALK)
STELTER: Yes, my friend.
QUEST: And I can tell you, you're no Brian Stelter. That -- I -- look, I'm old enough, Brian. I'm old enough to have watched it. I remember him saying
it. So, good to see you. We'll talk tomorrow, hopefully, about how it all went.
[15:55:04]
STELTER: Thank you.
QUEST: Brian Stelter, joining me.
And that, of course, for those of you who are under 60. And remember that, that was, of course, Lloyd Bentsen to Dan Quayle in the vice presidential
debate all those years ago.
All right, a quick look at the markets before we take a break and head to "PROFITABLE MOMENT" afterwards.
The markets have been all over the place today, but their movements are small. We were down, we're up, we're down. Now, we're down again only 96
points. Not worth wasting our breath over, I have a "PROFITABLE MOMENT" after the break.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
QUEST: There's something really raw about the revelations about the president's taxes. Tonight's "PROFITABLE MOMENT", when I read in the New
York Times, and it goes on for seven pages, and so. And more in Today's paper.
When I read the revelations, one immediately, of course, thinks of one's own taxes. And however, much or little that one may pay. And to be fair to
the president, he doesn't appear to have done anything illegal. Well, not yet anyway. In terms of the -- that which he's taken by deductions.
However, in an election time, as we'll discover tonight in the debate, people necessarily compare their own positions with that of their leaders.
And look for leaders who are either empathetic or at least sympathetic to their position and plight. And that's where the president is going to come
a cropper.
When ordinary people say, I paid this and you paid that, even if it's legal, where's the morality in doing so? Which is why he's got -- the
president tonight has a very tricky task. And it's why, in which, Joe Biden, needs to also have a tricky task in how to play it for the best.
You'll watch it here tonight at CNN, 9:00 Eastern.
And that's QUEST MEANS BUSINESS for tonight. I'm Richard Quest in New York.
Whatever you're up to in the hours ahead, I hope it's profitable. I'll see you tomorrow.
END
