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Quest Means Business

Jerusalem Clashes Raise Tensions Despite Ceasefire; U.S. Strong Assurances There is Commitment to Ceasefire; Exclusive Exit Interview with Angel Gurria; Argentina Imposing COVID Restrictions Amid Case Surge; Italy To Loosen Some Restrictions As Vaccinations Pick Up; Israel and Hamas Both Claim Victory As Ceasefire Holds. Aired 3-4p ET

Aired May 21, 2021 - 15:00   ET



RICHARD QUEST, CNN BUSINESS HOST: A very good Friday to you. The Dow is higher in the last hour of trade, but it is not enough to erase the losses

of earlier in the week which were sizable. We've talked about it enough.

And as you can see, the market has just sort of drifted and lowered a bit, but it is holding steady, around a half a percentage point gain. That's the

market and the effects and the main events of the day. Fresh clashes in Jerusalem are posing an early test to the Israel-Palestinian-Middle East


The head of the O.E.C.D. tells us tonight, the world has an urgent problem with its vaccine rollout. Exclusive interview with Angel Gurria tonight on

this program.

And Tim Cook insists Apple doesn't have a monopoly as he takes the stand over an antitrust trial.

End of the week, we have managed to make it. We're live from New York, of course, it's Friday, 21st of May. I'm Richard Quest and I mean business.

A ceasefire between Israel and Hamas is not even a day old and it's already being tested by clashes and riots in the street. Israeli Prime Minister

Benjamin Netanyahu has declared the military operational success. The political leader of Hamas, Ismail Haniyeh has also claimed victory and

vowed to rebuild Gaza. He called the conflict a resistance on the road to Jerusalem.

Now there have been fresh clashes in Gaza between Palestinians and Israeli Police. Security Forces used stun grenades and rubber bullets against what

they called rioters outside the Al-Aqsa Mosque. Coming from the south side of Jerusalem, of course. Thousands of worshippers on the grounds of the

mosque were chanting in solidarity with Gaza, and with Palestinians facing eviction in East Jerusalem.

For some Palestinians in Gaza, Friday was a chance to take stock of the damage caused by almost two weeks of Israeli airstrikes. Now, Ben Wedeman

was one of the first Western journalists into Gaza when it ended, he is reporting there live tonight, for us tonight.

There is a seriously long delay between me speaking and Ben hearing and answering, we estimate it to be about seven seconds. So Ben, and I will

just sort of ask the question, and invite you to take it away. Ben, what's the situation tonight?

BEN WEDEMAN, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, the situation in Gaza is calm. The ceasefire is holding despite those confrontations on the

Haram esh-Sharif or the Temple Mount in Jerusalem.

In fact, below me, there are children and families out enjoying a cool evening in late May. But beyond that, driving around Gaza, we saw

neighborhood after neighborhood where there was severe damage not just to buildings, but to the basic infrastructure.

We saw several places where bombs had been dropped in the middle of the roads, breaking sewer pipes and water pipes and making the road totally

impassable. We saw one area where three buildings were knocked down by Israeli airstrikes at 1:30 in the morning on the 16th of May, killing more

than 40 people.

At this point, people here are just enjoying, that's not possibly the right word to use, but the ability to go outside without fear of an airstrike or

an errant missile or something like that. So there's a sense of relief in the air.

And among some, for instance, we happened upon a sort of parade by members of Hamas's military wing, clearly Hamas is trying to frame this war as a

victory, certainly not a military victory, but perhaps a political victory in terms of its competition with the Palestinian Authority based in


But for people here in Gaza, it's a time to take stock, time to clean up, a time to try to resume live in an area of two million people crammed into

this tiny space along the Mediterranean, which is before this war suffered from unemployment, almost 50 percent, most people are dependent on some

form of food aid.

Most people here, particularly the young, have never left the tight confines of the Gaza Strip, the basic realities of Gaza have not changed --



QUEST: And, Ben, this idea that they will rebuild, Hamas saying that they will rebuild. From the devastation that you've seen so far, and obviously,

in the fullness of time, they will, but the extent of the pictures I am looking at suggests that it is unrealistic to think of anything soon.

WEDEMAN: It will take time. They will probably receive aid or the Gaza Strip will receive aid, not necessarily Hamas, although it does have its

sources of support for instance, Qatar gives money to Hamas to run the Gaza Strip with Israel's approval. It will take time.

After the 2014 which was much more -- 2014 War, which was much more devastating, they rebuilt. And so after this war, they will rebuild, it

will take time, it will be difficult. But the worry here is that since December 2008, there have been four wars between Gaza and Israel. So what

they rebuild could well be destroyed in just a few years -- Richard.

QUEST: Ben Wedeman who has done such stunning reporting over the course of the week. Thank you, sir. I appreciate you. I suspect you don't have a

quiet weekend ahead, because there'll be more to report.

Now while this truce is holding, violent protests in the West Bank on Friday underscore how, really, it is just a Band-Aid. In Jerusalem, Israeli

forces clashed with worshipers outside the Al-Aqsa mosque.

Two weeks ago, a police raid on that mosque, the third holiest site in Islam, prompted Hamas to fire rockets from Gaza and started, well, you know

what one says one started the other side the other started, but it was that the tit-for-tat began.

Nic Robertson is CNN's diplomatic editor in Ashdod, in Israel, not far from the Gaza border.

The nature of these ceasefires is not being flippant, Nic, but they can take a certain amount of argy-bargy, there's a certain amount of frakar and

riot that's expected and built in.

Are we close to that yet?

NIC ROBERTSON, CNN INTERNATIONAL DIPLOMATIC EDITOR: I don't think so. You know, if you go back to the beginning of the week, Hamas sources -- senior

Hamas sources were saying that one of their preconditions was that Israel wouldn't have any provocations in Jerusalem, and what happened today on

Haram esh-Sharif Temple Mount would be an example of what they would describe as a provocation.

But they feel they've got a lot of political gains out of this so far, taken a quantum leap forward is what Ismail Haniyeh, one of their leaders,

has said.

So, you know, if they've gone back into the conflict by returning to firing rockets, what they thought they've locked in, in terms of political gains

potentially could have been lost. We've heard from the Egyptians today who say -- the Egyptian Foreign Ministers talked to the Israeli Foreign

Minister and Egypt's assessment is that Israel is committed to continuing with the calmness of this ceasefire.

I think both sides see this as a moment -- as a moment to pause. And as you said before, both sides are portraying this as a victory for Minister

Netanyahu talking about the hundred kilometers of tunnels and the number of Hamas commanders, et cetera that have been hit.

QUEST: Nic, I just wanted to pick you up on the point you've just said that Hamas says, you know, is viewing it as a victory, not a military one

because of -- in your words, the gains they've managed to achieve. What are those gains?

ROBERTSON: I think, go to the protest today, on Haram esh-Sharif Temple Mount, and the protesters there were not carrying the flags of the

Palestinian Authority, the political organization, the Al Fatah, they were carrying the flags of Islamic Jihad and of Hamas.

And that is sort of indicative of them picking up support in Jerusalem, their power base, Hamas's power base is in Gaza, where they won the

elections a decade and a half ago. They really want to extend their authority and influence more broadly among the Palestinian community and

they believe that they've been able to do that. They believe they've been able to link the issue of Gaza with the issue of Jerusalem remembering that

they fired those rockets at Jerusalem almost two weeks ago now, that precipitated an Israeli response, and then that began the war.

So they feel that they've come out of this politically ahead because they have broader support among more Palestinians here, in simple terms.


QUEST: Nic, thank you. Nic Robertson, who is on the border there.

Now, the President -- the U.S. President has promised to work with the United Nations to rebuild Gaza, providing, of course, the ceasefire is

maintained. He says that the U.S. will help to organize and arrange reconstruction efforts.


JOE BIDEN (D), PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: We will do this in full partnership with the Palestinian Authority, not Hamas, the Authority, in a

manner that does not permit Hamas to simply restock its military arsenal.

I believe the Palestinians and Israelis equally deserve to live safely and securely and to enjoy equal measures of freedom, prosperity and democracy.

My administration will continue our quiet relentless diplomacy toward that end.


QUEST: Quiet, relentless diplomacy. Kaitlan Collins is our chief White House correspondent joins me from the White House lawn. Kaitlan, forgive

the vulgarity of my or the basis of my question, but will the White House be regarding the result as a victory for Joe Biden, his stern phone

conversation for significant de-escalation? Do they see the end result coming from that?

KAITLAN COLLINS, CNN CHIEF WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: I don't know, Richard, if they would go as far enough to say it's a victory. But we do

know that internally, they feel pretty good about the strategy that they've pursued here, despite the pressure that they were getting, not just from

the international community, but from members of President Biden's own party who are calling on him to be more critical of the Israeli Prime

Minister Benjamin Netanyahu and the tactics he was taking.

They believe that by not calling him out publicly, by not being really critical of him or even explicitly calling for that ceasefire that you saw

so many other lawmakers do, they believe that actually helped them get to a ceasefire faster.

So they, you know, basically, in these meetings that they've been having behind the scenes, Biden have been telling his national security team,

look, I've worked with Netanyahu for decades, I've known this guy for a long time. I think this is the best tactic, because otherwise, if we called

them out, then it gets their back into a corner and we lose leverage that we would have with Israel.

Of course, you know, it's much more complicated than just summing it up as that, but that's really basically how the White House was distilling it and

how they were viewing it as they were working through this and they do feel like it worked, because some of the aides were preparing themselves for

this to go on as long as it did in 2014. A lot of the people that work here today worked in the administration then, and so they feel like 11 days is a

pretty good timeline, despite, of course, all of the deaths and destruction that we saw play out during those 11 days of violence.

QUEST: So there is now this ceasefire, and just about everybody, to a man, woman and child has said that this ceasefire is nothing more than a Band-

Aid, and it doesn't deal with the underlying issues of occupation in Jerusalem.

Is it -- are you hearing anybody at the White House, suggesting that yet we really do need to give the peace process a shove, and we're prepared to put

capital behind it -- political capital behind it.

COLLINS: I do think this is going to prioritize it more for them than what it was before, which was basically zero. It was not high on Biden's

priority list at all when he got into office. And now I think, it's something that you're right, it's unavoidable really for the White House,

because this isn't seen as some long-term ceasefire. They are confident it's going to hold for right now, but you can only say for how long it


If those evictions start back up, depending on the violence that we've seen, all the things that kick started the violence that we've seen play

out over the last week and a half or so, and so I do think the White House realizes that. How much they prioritize it, though, Richard, I think is

going to be a big question, because I do think the other aspect of this that's being posed to the White House is, do they fundamentally rethink the

way that the United States treats Israel and how they view them?

Because before it has basically been this unquestioning support and with this rising pressure from the Democratic Party, from the progressive wing

of the Democratic Party, but even some mainstream members who were more critical than they have been of Israel in the past. I do think it raises

the question of whether this has shifted the way people view this, whether they still think we can get to a two-state solution as of course, so many

of them have pushed for and so that they would like to see that.

I think there are a lot of open questions still, regardless, not put to bed by this ceasefire that happened yesterday.

QUEST: Kaitlan, thank you and have a good weekend. I appreciate it. Thank you. Kaitlan Collins from the White House.

COLLINS: Thank you, Richard.

QUEST: Now, Angel Gurria led the O.E.C.D. for 15 years. Now, he is stepping down. After the break, exclusive interview: vaccines, stimulus and

recovery, the head of the O.E.C.D., next



QUEST: The International Monetary Fund says for $50 billion. The world can end the pandemic by early next year. But to do so, the wealthy nations must

share the vaccine supply.

As you're aware, we've talked about it much on this program, most of the world's vaccinations are taking place in a handful of countries. Pfizer and

BioNTech says they're going to donate two billion doses to low and middle income countries over the next 18 months, and the E.U. says, it will help

African nations produce vaccines there.

The numbers are quite startling. Think about it. Forty six percent of Americans and a quarter of Europeans have at least one dose -- one dose.

Meanwhile, just the latest numbers, only 1.2 percent of people in Africa. So it's not surprising that the head of the O.E.C.D. tells me he's

concerned about a two-speed recovery between developed nations and the developing world.

I spoke exclusively to Angel Gurria as he prepares to step down as Secretary General. He told me, we must close the vaccine gap.


ANGEL GURRIA, OUTGOING O.E.C.D. SECRETARY GENERAL: Today, we have, you know, a two-speed scenario where you have all the vaccines and all the

fiscal space in the developed countries of the world, and then you have no vaccines or very few vaccines and no fiscal space in the developing

countries, in the emerging economies. So I would say that that is the next immediate, very urgent issue that we have to tackle.

QUEST: So what does it mean to do? What do you have to do there? I mean, all the major lending bodies, the World Bank, the I.M.F., all the NGOs,

they are all busy working on that. But there seems to be a reluctance of developed countries to write off debt, even though they're coming up with

the Paris Club coming up with a whole range of restructuring issues. But what for you is the answer here?

GURRIA: The question of vaccines first, because today, the best economic policy is vaccination, and therefore the availability and distribution, and

then we have seen today that there are thousands of vaccines that are going to waste in the neediest countries. Why? Is it because they don't have the

infrastructure? Because they don't have -- they haven't organized in order to apply the vaccines and remember it's not the vaccines that are going to

save the world, it's vaccination that is going to save the world. So that is very important.


GURRIA: Second, the question of -- you mentioned the question of debt, deferring for six months, or even for one year the maturities is not going

to solve the problem.

You know, I'm one of the veterans from the Latin American debt restructuring of the 80s and the 90s, and you know, we got 35 percent taken

off the nominal amount and restructured over a very, very lengthy period of time. This is the type of major surgery that is going to be needed, and not

only to the poorest countries in the world, because they depend mostly on - - but markets, markets, markets.

QUEST: Do you think it's time for Central Banks to start withdrawing accommodation?

GURRIA: I would always rather err on the side of caution and that means staying with accommodation longer rather than doing it too early. Remember,

the mistake we made in the great financial crisis before that if we removed accommodation and we removed the fiscal support too early, we should not do

that this time.

Although there may be a moment in the future where we could taper off as you say, do it gradually, do it over time, as we have evidence that the

recovery is taking hold.

QUEST: Let me finish up with you. Turn your time at the O.E.C.D. and you've always been so gracious in talking to us and we're always so grateful to

have had you on QUEST MEANS BUSINESS.

But if you look at the great financial crisis of the early part of your time, and you look at the pandemic. Your entire time there has been spent

in crisis, either great financial or European sovereign debt, or emerging markets debt or pandemic.

GURRIA: But I swear -- I swear I wasn't responsible for them. But we've just had to face the music. Yes, we had the big financial crisis, but the

difference was in the financial crisis of 2008-2009, you knew how much it cost to fix it, you knew how much it cost to pay the creditors of Lehman

Brothers, and how much it costs to fix General Motors or Ford Motor Company or Citibank.

And you decided to pay it and that was it, and it turned out to be a good business for the government. Because, of course, there was a turned around,

and now they're selling the stock at better prices, et cetera et cetera.

But in the case of the pandemic, it was a decision induced by the virus itself. That is the big difference. And we don't know how much it will cost

in the end, because it's still costing every day.

QUEST: Finally, what are you going to do once you're finished here at the O.E.C.D.? What's your next project?

GURRIA: Well, I have to go into some decompression. Go back home, see the family there, see my two girls, and the son is in Cambridge in the U.K. And

after that, we'll see. I have to reinvent myself with all these 15 years of experience at the O.E.C.D. and having been a Minister of Foreign Affairs,

Minister of Finance in Mexico, having done the debt of Mexico and the debt of Latin America, et cetera.

I think there's a lot of work going forward. And of course, I'm ready and very anxious to apply all this experience into solving the problems of


QUEST: Let me ask you a blunt question. Do you see a political career ahead?

GURRIA: I see a multilateral career. I see maybe some work with foundations. I see some work with maybe even some institutions that that do

advocacy, et cetera. But this is where -- what I am looking at now, but it's a little early.

QUEST: Angel, may I just thank you on behalf of QUEST MEANS BUSINESS and everybody on TV, you have been wonderful to have come on the program in

Davos. It has been a pleasure, and whatever you're up to in your retirement or your years ahead, we hope it's profitable.

GURRIA: Thank you so much. Thank you. Thank you so much for all this time and for your friendship.



QUEST: The head of the O.E.C.D. -- outgoing head of the O.E.C.D., Angel Gurria.

Now, Tim Cook has taken the stand in California for his first ever court appearance. The Apple chief executive was in Federal Court for the

company's trial involving Epic Games, the maker of Fortnight.

Epic is claiming that Apple's strict rules with the App Store are hurting competition. However, Cook insisted Apple does not have a monopoly.

Clare Sebastian has been listening to the trial. Look, we know the arguments. They've been well rehearsed by Apple in advance. So was new

ground covered or was it just forcefully re-dug?

CLARE SEBASTIAN, CNN BUSINESS CORRESPONDENT: It was forcefully re-dug, Richard. I think that was sort of what we were expecting from Tim Cook. He

really focused on sort of defending Apple against those claims, A, that it is a monopoly; B, that it hurts developers and thereby hurts consumers.

He focused heavily on the issues of security and privacy. He says that's a key reason why Apple likes to maintain control of the App Store because it

stops users from having to sort of put their credit card information into every different app.

It helps them to sort of maintain control over things like malware and malicious content, and things like that.

He talks about how the App Store is a force for good. He said it was an economic miracle for all the jobs it's created. And he talked about how

there's a lot of competition.

He said Apple faces fierce competition from other device makers like Samsung and LG and Huawei and a lot of competition in the gaming space as

well from the likes of PlayStation and Xbox.

But there was some really tough questioning, Richard, especially from Epic's lawyer. I want to just bring out one interesting moment where the

lawyer said, look, if there are multiple stores, you say, you know, saying that people want the security that Apple provides. But if there are

multiple App Stores on the iPhone, surely they could just choose to use the Apple App Store and Tim Cook says that's not an experiment that I want to

go into.

And he said, well, you know, Apple would actually have to compete if that happened. And he said, yes, we would have to differentiate. I don't know


So, an interesting line of questioning there. But overall, yes, we have seen the same arguments coming out over these marathon hours of testimony.

QUEST: Clare Sebastian, we'll talk more in more detail in the next hour.

It is QUEST MEANS BUSINESS at the end of the week.

A few hours after a ceasefire and the Israeli forces are standing off with protesters outside the Al Aqsa Mosque. We'll be in Jerusalem after the


And we, also course wrap up the day on the markets. We saw some large falls early on, recoveries later in the week. We'll put it all together on CNN.



QUEST: Hello, I'm Richard Quest. More QUEST MEANS BUSINESS in a moment. The crowded football stadium is packed, and concerts and mass gatherings.

They're getting closer to reality in Europe, and I'll be trekking through the jungles of Rwanda for a face to face encounter with one of the world's

most protected species. It's fascinating. You want to watch it. It is CNN. And on this network, the news it always comes first.

World Health Organization says the devastating toll from coronavirus may be far worse than first thought. It's estimated the global death number is

actually two to three times higher than the reported number of 3.4 million. And the WHO says our lack of reliable accounting in many countries is

partly to blame.

Argentina is imposing new restrictions to try to curb a record number of COVID cases. Starting on Saturday schools and non-essential businesses will

temporarily close where most people will be asked to stay at home. The President says Argentinians are currently living the worst moments as the

pandemic began.

Italian officials plan to loosen pandemic restrictions in some areas on Monday. The Health Minister says the step is a result of good practices and

Italy's vaccination campaign. At this point, little more than 16 percent of Italy's population is fully vaccinated.

Israel and Hamas are each declaring victory after 11 days of brutal violence that cost hundreds of lives. Gaza has yet again been reduced to

rubble in many places. In Israel, internal politics have been turned on their head. And beyond that it's unclear exactly what's been achieved. The

political leader of Hamas, Ismail Haniyeh, says the conflict only strengthened the resistance. On the other side, the Prime Minister of

Israel, Benjamin Netanyahu says Israel succeeded by crippling Hamas.

BENJAMIN NETANYAHU, ISRAELI PRIME MINISTER (through translator): When we went out on an operation together, I have defined its main goal to land a

hard blow on the terror organizations to harm their capabilities and restore calm while establishing our deterrence. And that is exactly what we



QUEST: Now, Hadas Gold is in Jerusalem. She's about to arrives tonight or has arrived tonight in Israel. What's the consensus? Is there a consensus

yet as to whether this was worth it from the Israeli point of view?

HADAS GOLD, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, I think that's still being worked out. You know, the Israeli government Prime Minister Netanyahu was saying that

they had achieved their military objectives saying, claiming that they had set Hamas back years in a way that they did not expect, expanding upon the

tunnel network that they said they destroyed at least 100 kilometers worth of the Hamas tunnel saying that they destroyed a large percentage of their

rocket capabilities.

And if you speak to some Israeli, some of them, while very happy that there's a ceasefire, no longer rockets being fired and Israeli airstrikes

on Gaza, some of them are questioning it why the ceasefire now, because Hamas is still running Gaza. Hamas is still in Gaza. The -- this operation

did not wipe Hamas out of Gaza. And so the question for many here is that what will happen the next time around?

What will be different this time because we have been through this merry go round over and over again, where there is some sort of conflict, there

reach some sort of cessation of hostility, some sort of ceasefire, there's some period of calm, Gaza rebuild. And then a few years later, something

happens and the conflict arises again. So although both sides are declaring victory, and it's hard to see how you can declare victory when you have

civilians dead, and you have destruction on both sides, especially in Gaza.

The destruction that they see there. It is difficult to see what is fundamentally going to be different this time around that will change the

situation because the underlying tensions are still very much there. The underlying tensions here in Jerusalem, we saw clashes earlier today at the

Al-Aqsa compound between Palestinians and Israeli police, a Gaza militants saying that clashes like that at the Al-Aqsa compound are exactly one of

the reasons why they decided to fire rockets towards Jerusalem that helped spark this latest conflict that led us to that 11 days of conflict setting

the death and destruction we saw, both in Gaza and in Israel.


QUEST: OK. But what happens, bearing in mind the possibility of a fifth election? So let's be -- let's go into the politics here. The -- firstly,

does this alter, in your view, any way for the opposition to form a mandate? And if they can't form a mandate and bearing in mind Netanyahu has

-- Netanyahu had the first batch of it, then a fifth election will be called and that raises the question where this plays in -- plays into that.

GOLD: Well, Richard, without question that this conflict did change the political calculations here actually, the morning of those rockets being

fired on Jerusalem, I was being briefed by sources that the anti-Netanyahu block felt as though they were a week, maybe two weeks away from forming a

government. They were -- they were sounding very confident that they were finally going to be able to remove Benjamin Netanyahu from his hold on the

Prime Minister's Office.

Then a few hours later, those rockets were launched, this military -- these military airstrikes began on Gaza and things changed. Naftali Bennett, the

head of the small right-wing party, Yamina, who was a key part of this anti Netanyahu block decided that he wasn't necessarily going to be working with

them anymore. And there was discussion that he was going to go back to Netanyahu.

Now that could change again, because the anti-Netanyahu block still has time within the -- with the mandate before they have to hand it back in a

few days, and in just over a week before they have to hand that back. But the way the calculations, if you just look at the numbers, if they don't

have somebody like Naftali Bennett and his small party, then it's not clear that they would be able to form that government to get Netanyahu out of


And if they fail to do so, the next step is the Israeli President could try to send it back to the Parliament, to the Israeli Knesset, who then the

Knesset could try and recommend somebody to form a government. And the more likely scenario that most Israelis if you speak to the Israeli on the

street, they seem almost resigned to the fact that there will likely be another fifth -- another election, the fifth elections, if you can believe


That will likely be later this year, sometime in the fall. And all of while this is happening Benjamin Netanyahu stays as prime minister until there is

another government formed.

QUEST: Thank you. Have a good weekend (INAUDIBLE) if you can, as things continue, thank you. I appreciate it. Hadas Gold in Jerusalem tonight.

Prince William has given a rousing set of accusations and criticism to the BBC, after a report on the methods used to secure that interview with

Princess of Wales. In a video statement at the Duke of Cambridge, said she was deeply hurt by falsehoods that were covered up by the BBC.


PRINCE WILLIAM, DUKE OF CAMBRIDGE: It brings indescribable sadness to know that the BBC's failures contributed significantly to her fear, paranoia and

isolation that I remember from those final years with her.


QUEST: William's brother, Duke of Sussex, Prince Harry has linked sensational press coverage to his mother's death in 1997. And he says the

BBC his actions expose what he calls a culture of exploitation and unethical practices that ultimately took her life. In his new Apple T.V

show. The prince confesses it all took a toll on him too.


PRINCE HARRY, DUKE OF SUSSEX: I was willing to drink, I was willing to take drugs, I was willing to try and do the things that made me feel less like I

was feeling. But I slowly became aware that OK, I wasn't drinking Monday to Friday, but I would probably drink a week's worth in one day on a Friday or

a Saturday night.


QUEST: Our correspondent is Scott McLean. He's with me from London. Looking at the two statements, they are -- they are notably different in tone.

Harry's is more general, the press, they've all been after us and something must be done. Williams is more laser focused. The BBC did this. The BBC

must pay.

SCOTT MCLEAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes, you're absolutely right. And keep in mind, Richard, that this report after this month's long investigation by a

former judge is a quarter century in the making. This is not the first time that the BBC has dug into this and done an investigation. The only trouble

is that the first time they did this, they didn't do a very thorough job. And that's precisely the point that Prince William is making, saying that

the BBC ought to have known.

Maybe they didn't know at first, but they chose to turn a blind eye to this early on. Prince Harry obviously making a much broader point, as you say

about the press coverage of his mother blaming the paparazzi squarely on paparazzi squarely on the death of his mother, while she was trying to

evade photographers in Paris back in 1997. The driver of that car you'll remember was also over the legal limit, he was legally drunk.

But still, the feeling the Prince Harry has is that the paparazzi is directly responsible for his mother's death.


QUEST: Scott, arguably I mean, the prince is -- not -- criticisms are not when we just missed as those of -- sort of angry of people who've lost

their mother in this way. But arguably today, the words of the Prime Minister Boris Johnson, will be of shaking in the foundations of the BBC

more than what the princes have said because Boris Johnson has said that they may need to relook at the governance rules of the BBC.

The Board of Governors or at least the management now, the management board that it has, it's already been reviewed several times, that could be

worrying for the BBC.

MCLEAN: Yes, the Prime Minister is saying he is concerned there. And keep in mind, Richard, that every single household in this country pays a T.V.

licensing fee, of course, you'll know this, of more than $200 U.S. every single year. And that funds the vast majority of the BBC's annual budget.

And so, the BBC really for its legitimately -- legitimacy depends so heavily on the trust of the British public.

And once you start to undermine that, well, of course, you know, the concerns that you raise could quickly snowball. Obviously, the head of the

BBC today saying that it doesn't -- or yesterday's saying it doesn't give him a lot of great comfort that these accusations being made or the

findings of this report, I should say, are historic. He accepts the report's findings in full, he says that the BBC's practices today are


The systems in place are better that would hopefully prevent something like this from happening again.

QUEST: Scott, thank you in London who -- Scott, by the way, they also pays the license fee to the BBC (INAUDIBLE) pay to get a fine. Right. Thank you.

Now, as we continue on QUEST MEANS BUSINESS, the -- actually, there is a lot of countries that have license fees of one description or another that

pays for their national broadcasters. But that's a discussion and a debate for another day.

Instead after the break, the giants of the jungle are in tracking in Orlando and had an encounter I certainly won't forget. After the break.



QUEST: Today it is my turn to join the #CalltoEarth on what's being done. As you know, CNN's joint prominent environmentalists as part of the call to

Earth series to promote sustainability and diversity. So on a recent trip to Rwanda, I was able to come face to face with one of my oldest relatives,

so to speak, or at least, a beast that shares so much of our DNA and is, at the same time, one of the world's most protected species.


QUEST: The Virunga Mountain Chain in East Africa. Stunning, beautiful and boasting one of the most diverse habitats on the continent. This is where

to find the true kings of the jungle. More than half of the world's population of endangered mountain gorillas live here. And I've come to meet

a few of them.

Duly sanitized and ready to start the climb to the gorillas. We have to wear masks throughout. Obviously, this is to protect ourselves, but more

importantly, to protect the gorillas from us. I love to. Onwards.

We humans share 98 percent of our DNA with gorillas. It means coronavirus may be just as harmful to them as us.

DR. NOEL JOHN BOSCO, RWANDA FIELD VETERINARIAN: Even before COVID, gorillas have suffered from respiratory infections. We have confounded some of those

were from humans, but they are more vulnerable with activities given the flow to us. We can transmit disease to them, our disease are very deadly

when they get to the communities.

Dr. Noel John Bosco works for the Gorilla Doctors, a team of 12 veterinarians in the region. His patients have been more prone to catching

human illnesses for more than a century. Ever since the expansion of agriculture in the area. This susceptibility to our illnesses, combined

with historic hunting of gorillas was disastrous for the population.

BOSCO: In 1933, King Kong movie that one has initiated the more hunting buying permits and going out and hunting gorillas. So, if you kill one, you

mean you're extraordinary. So that's what went on reading to the significant decline of great apes.

QUEST: in the 1980s their number was less than 250. Thanks to the work of Dr. Noel and his team and the conservation efforts. Today, there are more

than 1000 of them. Delivering medication and performing surgeries, of course, is a real trial on cases that weigh up to 500


BOSCO: They are very heavy, very strong. We don't usually have to carry that much mega (INAUDIBLE) back from a place to another place. Because our

hospital is right in the forest. So we do everything there.

QUEST: Hunting is now illegal in the parks. But it's still a big problem for even the smallest in the group, like this infant whose hand was caught

in a ferocious snap.

BOSCO: If you don't intervene within time, that animal will die or lose the handle of food, it depends on where the (INAUDIBLE) is.

QUEST: Freeing and returning him safely to the group was a career highlight for Dr. Noel.

BOSCO: That feeling where you're making a difference, it's very unique. You see how much you're contributing to the -- using veterinary science to

restore a population. It's really beyond imagination, you feel like, well, I'm there.

QUEST: As for me, observing these miraculous creatures, so close to us, and so threatened by what we do. It's difficult to express how overwhelming it

is to be in their presence. And watching the interplay tried to work out what's going on between the silver backs and the black packs and the kids

from rough and tumble. And the internal dynamics. I mean, they just wander off. Leaving us wandering. Wow. Throughout.


QUEST: It was one of the most remarkable things I've seen to be that close and at 1.1 of them walk past me, quite extraordinary. Well, the important

point to make about this will continue showcasing stories like that as part of these initiatives here at CNN. And you'll have your own thoughts and

what you're doing and I'd like to hear from them. So answer the call with the #CalltoEarth.



QUEST: The Olympic Games will go on and they will be safe for participants as well as the people of Japan. That's what the vice president of the IOC

is saying. They are the main organizers of course, it is their Olympics in Tokyo. However, the organizers are also saying the number of foreign

delegations coming from 180,000 to less than half of that. in other words, smaller numbers but the place will be safe. Our Selina Wang is in Tokyo.

SELINA WANG, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Olympic officials insist that the Tokyo games can be held safely even if Japan is still under a state of

emergency. At a virtual press conference, the IOC said that they're working with Japan to bring medical personnel from abroad to help with COVID-19

countermeasures. Officials also say they expect more than 80 percent of people in the Olympic village to be vaccinated by the games.

The IOC is trying to reassure growing anxiety in Japan, but opposition continues to mount. According to a recent local poll, more than 80 percent

of people in Japan do not want the games to help this summer. Japan has been struggling to contain a fourth wave of COVID-19 cases, with less than

two percent of the population fully vaccinated. Tokyo and large swathes of the country remain under a state of emergency and the government just added

another prefectures, Okinawa to the state of emergency list.

Efforts to prevent the spread of COVID-19 at the games, which includes social distancing, regular testing and contact tracing have failed to

satisfy the medical community. A group representing more than 6000 doctors in Tokyo have urged the government to cancel the Olympics. With more than

11,000 athletes from more than 200 countries and tens of thousands of unvaccinated volunteers, medical experts say that it is impossible to keep

a safe bubble during the Olympics.

They fear that the Olympics could further push Japan's already overstretched medical system to the brink. While those who oppose the

Olympics tell me that these games are putting politics and money ahead of people's lives, IOC officials say that it is now clearer than ever that

these games will be safe for everyone. Selina Wang, CNN, Tokyo.


QUEST: Now Europe is back and in person. Two major events are welcoming live audiences once again this weekend.




QUEST: (INAUDIBLE) it has to be Eurovision. And there'll be 3-1/2 thousand people in the audience for Eurovision's 2021 finals.

OH, that has to be football. The Premier League matches this weekend. Fans return in time for the Sunday season finale. Venues aren't at full

capacity, but it's still in the thousands. And Premier League was Richard Masters. He's hopeful they will be at full capacity when the season starts.

CNN's medical -- senior medical correspondent Elizabeth Cohen is with me. So, I won't ask you what you prefer Eurovision or a bit of a football

match. And that's personal choice. But it's good news.

ELIZABETH COHEN, CNN SENIOR MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: The Cohen family loves Eurovision. I'm just going to put that out there right now. We rally right

around that. That's so much for football. But anyhow, it's, you know, when we're thinking about reopening for these big mass gatherings, it will be so

great, Richard, if there was some kind of a barometer so that have a metric to say, oh, this number is okay, but this number is not.

And if you only do X, Y, and Z, OK, then you'll be fine. There's so many different factors that go into whether or not these can be done safely. So

let's take a look at some questions that hosts ought to be asking themselves. First of all, this is super important. How much COVID is in the

city where are you going to be having this event? What are the rates there? Also, what percentage of the people who will be attending are vaccinated?

Also what testing will be done for COVID-19. Now let's look at how these are sort of applied to a real-life situation which is the Olympics which

are scheduled to start in Tokyo in July. So, for the Olympics, they are saying -- first of all, let's start with less than five percent of Japan's

population is vaccinated. That's not great. That's a pretty low number. But they do say they're going to have no foreign spectators and that the

foreign delegations will be of smaller size than usual.

And that they plan to do 50 to 60,000 COVID-19 tests per day. They also say that about 75 percent of the people in the Olympic village will be

vaccinated maybe even more, so that's good. So all of these factors come into play. Now, I will note going back to football, that there have been

some events in England. And as we just saw, and they required a negative COVID tests before entering, of course, the vaccination rate in the U.K. is

quite high. Those events seem to have gone quite well. Richard?

QUEST: I mean, this is the way things are going. And we are managing them but so far touchwood, there does not appear to be an outbreak from a major

event, thank God.

COHEN: There doesn't, thank goodness. But I will say I don't know that there's been an event the size of say the Tokyo Olympics. I mean, numbers

matter here, the more warm bodies you throw into one location, the higher the chance that you're going to get some kind of a super spreader event. So

you know, it's good. It's a good sign that it hasn't happened yet. But we have to see sort of what happens in the future.

QUEST: Eurovision, that's what I go for after that. All right, thank you.

COHEN: Thanks.

QUEST: I'm with the Cohen family. Thank you, Elizabeth. Now we have a special extended edition of QUEST MEANS BUSINESS tonight. In a moment, I

will turn -- of course, return to Gaza, Ben Wedeman is one of the first journalists to get inside and to be reporting that since the ceasefire.

You'll hear from him after the break. This is CNN.