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Quest Means Business

Boris Johnson Reacts To Murder Of Sir David Amess; U.K. Stunned By Killing Of Serving MP; Chinese Crew Headed To Tiangong Space Station For Six-Month Mission; Suicide Attack Kills At Least 32 People In Afghanistan; U.S. Opening To Many Foreign Nationals On Nov. 8; Bill Clinton Hospitalized For Infection But "On The Mend." Aired 3-4p ET

Aired October 15, 2021 - 15:00   ET



ANNOUNCER: This is CNN Breaking News.

RICHARD QUEST, CNN BUSINESS ANCHOR: Good evening to you. I'm Richard Quest with the breaking news that tonight, the British Prime Minister says the

British hearts are full of shock and sadness of one of his colleagues in Parliament was stabbed to death.

Sir David Amess, a British MP of some 40 years standing was murdered by a lone assailant, who police say is now in custody. Sir David was stabbed

multiple times, whilst meeting his constituents. The meeting and surgery taking place at a church in his home county of Essex. Sir David had

represented the area in Parliament since 1983 as a member of the Conservative Party.

A 25-year-old man has been arrested on suspicion of murder, and the police say there is no ongoing threat to the general public.

Boris Johnson, the Prime Minister said Sir David was one of the kindest, nicest, most gentle people in politics. And speaking earlier, the Prime

Minister described Sir David's -- talking about the laws he passed where he said helped the most vulnerable people.


BORIS JOHNSON, BRITISH PRIME MINISTER: Well, I think all our hearts are full of shock and sadness today to the loss of Sir David Amess, MP, who was

killed in his constituency surgery in a church after almost 40 years of continuous service to the people of Essex and the whole of the United


And the reason I think people are so shocked and saddened is, above all, he was one of the kindest, nicest, most gentle people in politics. And he also

had an outstanding record of passing laws to help the most vulnerable.

We've lost today, a fine public servant, and a much loved friend and colleague, and our thoughts are very much today with his wife, his

children, and his family.


QUEST: Nic Robertson is there at the scene of the attack on the Southeast Coast of England. It's now eight o'clock in the evening in the U.K. The

shock, the horror must only now be starting to really, really get to people. The enormity, in the true sense of that word of what has taken


NIC ROBERTSON, CNN INTERNATIONAL DIPLOMATIC EDITOR: And I think perhaps more so when they wake up in the morning, Richard, when people have had

time to digest this. It is one thing for your MP to be murdered on your doorstep, and you go to bed knowing that, but you wake up in the morning,

and you see it splashed across all the newspaper headlines, you'll have watched it on the television the night before, you'll have talked with your

family, with your spouse, with your partner, with your children, perhaps about it, and you'll wake up in the morning, and you'll have a sense that

this is not quite the place you thought it was.

It was the place you might have worried could happen, and certainly, we'd heard Sir David Amess had concerns about knife crime in the U.K., it raises

an issue with Boris Johnson in Parliament. This is something that he that had certainly crossed his mind. But for the people here, it is a sense of

shock even this evening.

Floral tributes have been laid here, one that I was reading before and I mentioned to you before, from the Surface against Sewage Group here on the

Southeast Coast of the U.K. You know, a group you wouldn't necessarily expect to be to be rushing to lay flowers in support of their MP. But I

think this tells you the sort of man that he was, the sort of man that embraced so many issues and troubles over his constituents.

That one lady we spoke to here said what had happened was just horrible.

QUEST: Nic, to think about Sir David, you and I have been around enough politicians in our careers to know the naked ambition, to climb the greasy

pole. Come what may, with good intentions, perhaps, but getting to the top has been the goal. This man was not that, was he?

ROBERTSON: He wasn't. You know, he had been an MP for almost 40 years, 69 years old. That's more than half his life, ample opportunity to try to

climb that pole, if he had so desired. You know the things that has been lauded for, for being gentle, for being nice, I mean these are generally

not the attributes that are laid at the feet of the politicians who make it to the top of that greasy pole.


ROBERTSON: This is a man who appealed to many parts of the community, to animal lovers, to those in the environment. But you know, he was in many

ways a traditional conservative. He was against abortion. He was perhaps behind the times in his views on LGBTQ issues, for example, but the sort of

mainstream Conservative Party, for example, would have very probably been pro-fox hunting. He was anti-fox hunting.

So this was a man within his own party, willing to sort of not follow the flock on what for some conservatives or others might have seen mainstream,

important grassroots issues. To him, it felt important to follow what his community and his heart told him.

So, I think this gives you, you know, a sense of the man there.

And the lady we spoke to earlier who said that his -- you know, his killing was absolutely horrible. It was a terrible shock. She gave the example that

her son aspired to work in the Houses of Parliament, and he had offered to take him around.

I mean, this was a man who was putting himself out there for all the people in his constituency.

QUEST: Nic Robertson, thank you. Westminster, the home of British politics is united in grief.

The former Prime Minister Theresa May, who is still a very active and busy Member of Parliament, described it as a tragic day for democracy. "My

thoughts and prayers are with David's family," she says, "A decent man killed in his own community."

The Foreign Secretary Liz Truss says she is devastated and called Sir David a lovely man and a superb parliamentarian. And those tributes cross party

lines with the Labour opposition leader Sir Keir Starmer saying, "Let us come together in response to these horrendous events. We will show once

more that violence, intimidation, and threats to our democracy will never prevail over the tireless commitment of public servants simply doing their


Joining me now as the former MP Harvey Proctor, Sir David's predecessor in Parliament for Basildon. Harvey Proctor, thank you. Sir, the one thing

comes across is, you know, the nature of Sir David Amess, what's your recollection?

HARVEY PROCTOR, FORMER BRITISH CONSERVATIVE MEMBER OF PARLIAMENT: I first met Sir David in 1983, when he was selected to be the Conservative

candidate to fight the 1983 general election in Basildon.

I had been the Conservative Union's Member of Parliament for Basildon since 1979. That constituency was very large, and it was divided into two. I took

the Billericay part of the constituency. David was the candidate for Basildon, a much thinner majority on paper than mine.

I went to help him fight the Basildon seat in 1983. I found him to be incredibly friendly, down to earth, the common man who would represent his

constituency and his constituents very well.

I continued to remain friendly with him until today.

QUEST: And that friendship, which continued until today, and you had differences of opinion. I mean, obviously, his views on LGBT issues would

have been at variance with your own, and yet, the nature of friendship in British politics is that men and women of good faith can come together and

agree to disagree.

PROCTOR: Indeed, we both shed full support for Mrs. Thatcher's Prime Ministership and government in the 1980s. On some issues, we fully agreed.

For example, on the need to leave the European Union, but on other issues, we might have disagreed personally. That did not get in the way of our

friendship, or if I may say so, David Amess's personal support for me, personally, when I was in difficulties.


QUEST: That tells us volumes, doesn't it? That speaks about the person because Harvey Proctor, you better than most will know that when scandal

and troubles come calling, you find out who your real friends are and everybody else evaporates into some fear of worrying about their own

political reputation, but he stood with you. He was a friend.

PROCTOR: He was. I had the unfortunate position of experiencing not one, but two pretty major scandals in my life. I survived both of them with the

friendship of a few limited people, and I'm proud to be able to say, Sir David was one of them.

QUEST: That's -- you know, I'm hearing a lot of wonderful words from many politicians. But what you're telling me tonight, Harvey Proctor is much

more important than this, because you're telling me how it actually -- how he actually related and integrated, not just some political nice speak, if

you will. You'll be missing him.

PROCTOR: Yes. We were still in conversations and still dealing with issues together, and I was expecting soon to meet him, and another Member of

Parliament for lunch or dinner at the House of Commons.

He was a genuine, honest, down-to-earth man who made a wonderful Member of Parliament. He was very supportive of his constituents. He held surgeries,

as I used to do on a regular weekly, biweekly visit, to me personally and to him personally.

It is a tragedy of the first order that a man who opened himself up to helping people and being available to all his constituents to come and see

him in that way should end his life, defending and trying to help his constituents.

QUEST: Harvey Proctor, grateful for your time tonight, sir. Thank you.

PROCTOR: Thank you.

QUEST: This is CNN, and we'll have more in just a moment.



QUEST: Welcome back. The British Home Secretary has asked for all police forces in the country to review their security arrangements for MPs with

immediate effect after the killing of Sir David. Their conservative colleague, Tom Tugendhat says Sir David's death is an attack on the British

people and their right to choose who represents them.

Speaking to Bianna Golodryga, he said that some people have left or shied away from public office because of threats made against them, and it has

never been easier to communicate rage and that everyone must work to protect the well of democracy.


TOM TUGENDHAT, BRITISH CONSERVATIVE MEMBER OF PARLIAMENT: Well, I do know people who stood down in the 2017 election because the threats against them

were more than they were prepared to take, quite rightly, quite understandably. I know of others who, you know, decided not to stand.

And frankly, you know, that's why this matters so much, you know, murder of Jo or the murder of David is not just an attack against them, a horrific

attack against them. It's not just against their family or their friends. It's a fundamental attack on the British people and the right of

communities across our country to choose who they wish to represent them.

What we have seen in recent years is the ability to communicate rage, to communicate visceral anger more easily than it has been for years. Before,

you had to pick up a pen, write a letter, find an envelope, find a stamp. You know, it just took you a while to do it, and so many people didn't get

round to it, and people calmed down before they fed it into a wider context.

Now, you know, we all know that you can do it much more quickly than that, whether on e-mail, social media, or however you choose to do it. So finding

ways in which we remember that our words have actions and it doesn't matter how important or how unimportant we think we are, the reality is that we

are part of the Zeitgeist that shapes, you know that shapes nearer and it's very much up to us as individuals wherever you live, whoever you all to

conduct yourself as you'd like, your democracy your country to operate in, you know, we can all poison the well and we can all say that.


QUEST: Now, this is the second time that a serving member of Britain's Parliament has been killed in the past five years. In 2016, you'll recall

the Labour MP, Jo Cox, was murdered by a far-right extremist only days before the Brexit referendum.

Sir David Amess went on to write about that incident, saying that Members of Parliament have to regularly check their locks in the name of security.

Nick Paton Walsh is in London. So Nick Paton Walsh, what do you do? You want to protect the ability of MPs to interact with constituents and you

want to keep them safe, square that circle for me.

NICK PATON WALSH, CNN INTERNATIONAL SECURITY EDITOR: Exceptionally hard challenge and particularly given the volume of rhetoric we're hearing

today, not only in tribute of an extraordinary man, Sir David Amess was, but also the need to keep British democracy thriving, to not allow this

incident, it doesn't feel as isolated, of course after the murder of Jo Cox five years ago, but it is in British society, not a particularly regular

occurrence over the past decades to have the damage that causes to the ability of elected officials behind me here to interact with those people

who've elected them, their voters, to have that significantly damaged by this savage and comparatively rare attack.

We are still not entirely clear what the motivations behind the suspected attacker arrested for suspicion of murder, a 25-year-old man who didn't

appear to flee the scene after the attack. Police say they immediately arrested him on their arrival. Quite what motivated him, that will be key

because if it is specifically political, ideological that will inform of course the choices ahead of law enforcement here whether this is a

potentially wider threat they may see more of or an awful isolated individual who may be unwell, may be driven by a separate grievance.

These are all important factors to bear in mind here. The highest law enforcement official in the country, Priti Patel the Home Secretary has

said that they are already reviewing security measures for MPs and will reveal the findings of that review according to police forces in the


That's after she chaired an urgent meeting with Intelligence Police and security forces.

So work already underway tonight to improve that climate, certainly, but I'm sure every individual MP will have to weigh how much distance they want

to permanently create between themselves and those people that are paid and put here to serve -- Richard.


QUEST: This is the hardest -- I mean, one wishes to avoid hyperbole. But at the same time, when we start talking in these terms, you make a valid

point that we are now actually at the heart of democracy, aren't we, in that sense? How close can you get to your elected -- and I'd say, if they

will -- you know, you have to have the right to shout at them, to abuse them verbally, in a sense and heckle them in a sense. You have to have that

right. But the line can't be crossed, and that's the difficult part

PATON WALSH: Yes, I mean, look, the square behind me outside Parliament has been evidence of the ability of British people to have at times an ill-

natured, but certainly not violent confrontation and express their rights to elected officials coming through here, holding protests relentlessly.

During the Brexit referendum, you experienced yourself the constant den of people endlessly protesting. It should have been illegal, frankly, but it

wasn't and that was the strength of the system. Whether the security measures we may see damage the ability of people to interact, we will

simply have to wait and see.

I think the problem really is this political violence is beginning to feel like it is more common, even though essentially, it is still quite rare

because of two in five years, murder in the U.K. is on a global relative scale, fairly infrequent.

So there was going to have to be this assessment as to whether political rhetoric and violence here is far ahead of the rest of society.

QUEST: But, you know, a viewer just texted me to remind me rightly, 2017, Keith Palmer, the police officer who was killed protecting Parliament, just

steps from where you are. So this necessity of protecting those lawmakers results in violence against many.

PATON WALSH: It does, but the broader question, we face this with terrorism across a pan-society more generally, is because of those

individual isolated threats, do you change people's daily lives as a whole? Do you give a concession to those who would commit violence by changing

your daily routine? We've seen that through the struggles this city had with Irish terrorism and separatism in the past decades. They chose to

continue regardless, and how that has become something embedded in many societies, but also here in the United Kingdom, too.

So I think we're going to hear a lot of that as well countering the clear, urgent desire for a security review. But you have to deal with the

practicalities, too, Richard unless these MPs are going to deal only with their constituents inside the metal detector protected, portcullis secured

doors of the building behind me, the House of Commons, then they are going to have to go out into their constituents at some point and meet people


There has been a lot less of that because of the pandemic, limiting face- to-face meetings. But now, it's back, more appointments being made, but it is an essential part of the life of an MP, being able to have those people

who represent turn up and discuss at times the most mundane things. That's what you're paid to do and that's what you have to have time for --


QUEST: And of course, going out in the hustings and the grubbing for votes at the village fete and the county fair and all the things that make up the

rich tapestry of democracy.

Thank you, sir.

Now, reaction has arrived from the Duke and Duchess of Cambridge, Prince William and Kate Middleton. Prince William and Catherine said: "We are

shocked and saddened by the murder of Sir David Amess who dedicated 40 years of his life to serving his community. Our thoughts and prayers are

with his family, friends, and colleagues."

Other news to bring to your attention. This Friday, three Chinese astronauts are set to docket China's new space station in only a few hours.

They blasted off three hours ago from the launch center of Gobi Desert.

This is China's longest manned mission. It's going to last six months. The crew will help build the station and the goal is have it completed by the

end of next year. One of the astronauts is set to become the first Chinese woman to take a spacewalk.

CNN's David Culver, on China's extraterrestrial ambitions.


DAVID CULVER, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice over): Ninety-year-old "Star Trek" actor William Shatner blasted into space becoming the oldest man to reach

such heights amid great fanfare in the U.S.


CULVER (on camera): Thousands of miles away here in the Gobi Desert, China's latest space mission won't set any records, but it is a major step

forward in this country's fast growing and increasingly ambitious space program.


CULVER (voice over): CNN gaining rare access to the Jiuquan Satellite Launch Center in Northwestern China. Shenzhou 13 carrying three Chinese

astronauts to the country's soon to be completed space station called Tiangong or Heavenly Palace.

China has touted their space station as next generation, an alternative to the International Space Station. But the 15-country ISS has already been

occupied for more than 20 years. The U.S. passed a law barring China from participating, leading some experts to question --

DAVID BURBACH, ASSOCIATE PROFESSOR, U.S. NAVAL WAR COLLEGE: If we had brought China in to work with us on ISS, would China have felt as compelled

to develop their own fully independent program as rapidly as they have?

CULVER (voice over): It is Hollywood's portrayal coming to reality, Sandra Bullock's character in "Gravity" saved by a Chinese space station on her

way back to Earth.

Wang Yaping told us in 2015, it is her favorite film. She is one of three Chinese astronauts on this mission. The crew also includes a newcomer to

space travel, 41-year-old, Ye Guangfu, who took part in cave training with astronauts from five countries in 2016.

YE GUANGFU, CHINESE ASTRONAUT (through translator): I hope one day, I can fly with other international astronauts in space and welcome them to visit

China's Space Station.

CULVER (voice over): But Western astronauts will need to study up first. These operation interfaces are in Chinese and China's state media reports

that European astronauts are already taking language courses so they can visit the Chinese Space Station.

Despite a late start in the space race, China is rapidly catching up. It has returned samples from the moon and like the U.S., put a rover on Mars,

all within the last year. It's also got big plans for commercial ventures and for deep space exploration, including to build a base on the moon with

Russia and send humans to Mars in the 2030s.

From launching billionaires to cosmic explorations, the U.S. is still leading with plenty of headline grabbing launches, and a long history of

success, putting 12 men on the moon.

But the more pressing challenge, prioritizing the multibillions in funding needed for the U.S. to hold on to that lead. Some experts believe, the

added competition from China might fuel more innovation.

BURBACH: If you're somebody who wants to see humans land on Mars and more scientific probes throughout the solar system, geopolitical competition is

probably not the worst thing in the world.

CULVER (voice over): While Captain Kirk is helping capture us imaginations to propel the U.S. forward in this tightening space race, China's three

astronauts now embarking on a six-month mission, the country's longest yet to secure their footing out of this world.

David Culver, CNN, Jiuquan Satellite Launch Center, China.


QUEST: This is CNN, in a moment, we remember Sir David Amess. He was a lawmaker known for his kindness, the friendships he had spanned the

political divide and that's reflected tonight in the cross party tributes that have been made.



QUEST: I'm Richard Quest. We'll return to all breaking news coverage of the murder of the British M.P. Mr. David Amess in just a moment. I do need to

update you some other stories that we're following from around the world.

For the second week in a row, a suicide attack has rocked a Shia mosque in Afghanistan during Friday prayers. At least 32 people have been killed

today in the country's second largest city of Kandahar. Officials says three explosions went off inside the mosque. Back to back there's no claim

of responsibility.

The U.S. is opening or reopening its borders to fully vaccinated travelers, beginning on November the eighth. Travelers will have to show proof of

vaccination and a recent negative COVID-19 test to get admitted. Most travelers not from the U.S. have been barred from entering since the winter

of last year. Former President Bill Clinton is said to be on the mend at a Southern California hospital.

Our sources telling CNN, he has continued to show signs of improvement and spoke by telephone with President Biden. Bill Clinton was admitted on

Tuesday for a urinary tract infection that spread his bloodstream. His spokesman said the former president is in good spirits.

ANNOUNCER: This is CNN breaking news.

QUEST: Flags tonight are flying at half-mast across the British Capitol with the mourning of the death of Sir David Amess. So David was killed

whilst doing constituency work in his home constituency this afternoon. He was stabbed multiple times. The politician was known for his work on animal

welfare. He was killed while held in one of his regular meetings with constituents. Something he calls a great British tradition. He was 69 years


Cyril Vanier is at Downing Street. I'm guessing shock, share disbelief. Twice in five years, a member of Parliament murdered.

CYRIL VANIER, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Absolutely. Immense sadness here at number 10 Downing Street, and really in this entire area of Westminster we're not

far away after all from where Parliament is. These Parliamentarians were -- they all knew Sir David Amess. Remember that he was in public service for

almost four decades. So he had many, many friends on both sides of the aisle, both sides of the political spectrum.

And that was evidenced in the tributes that were paid to him starting with the Prime Minister Boris Johnson who described him as one of the kindest,

nicest most gentle people in politics. Now of course, you would expect nice said -- nice things to be said under the circumstances, but that really is

something that stood out if you read all the tributes that were paid to Sir David. The tributes to his humanity, to his generosity of spirit, to his

kind soul that really stood out.

Let me read you a few more. He was a lovely, lovely man according to the U.K. foreign secretary. He showed charity and compassion to all. His every

word marked by kindness according to Michael Gove, Secretary Secretary of State for levelling up, Richard. And one more perhaps, he was described as

one of life's truly nice people. Always ready to get his help, that from Brandon Lewis, Secretary of State of Northern Ireland.

So clearly at this stage, we can say, Sir David Amess, one of his -- one part of his legacy beyond the policies that he advocated and the laws that

he helped to pass will be his kindness of spirit and the kind of person he was his character, Richard.


QUEST: One of the -- I mean, it's maybe too early to talk about this of course but the security issue that will follow and the question of how to

protect M.P.s will be high on the agenda.

VANIER: Absolutely. And it certainly wasn't too early for the question to be posed to the Prime Minister Boris Johnson. But no sooner had he finished

his public statement before the press. Paying tribute to Sir David -- Sir David Amess was he -- then he was asked a question about security and he

did not want to go there, Richard. He did not want to engage with the question. We got nothing from number 10 Downing Street this evening on


That is not to say the government is doing nothing because the home office minister has called on police departments to revise all security protocols

for the M.P.s. Remember, M.P.s, their security is actually dealt with by the police departments within which they live. But really, this poses the

question and you've had this conversation multiple times with your guests I heard of how much you can really protect M.P.s.

On the one hand, Richard, it is clear now, crystal clear that there needs to be more security. It is unacceptable the two lawmakers have been killed

by members of the general public in the last five years. I think everyone would agree on that. On the other hand, they are -- the backbone of what

they do is engaging with voters. And they need to look them in the eye. They need to have conversations with them.

They need to have unscripted moments. And for that you cannot completely walled them off from the people that they represent, Richard.

QUEST: That indeed, is the conundrum of democracy. Thank you. Cyril Vanier in number 10 tonight. I don't use this time on the business and economic

front. Better than expected retail sales in the U.S. has helped lift the markets. Even though a leading survey shows consumer sentiment is at its

second lowest point in the last 10 years. Now the consumers may be down but the Dow is briefly -- the Dow is up.

Gave up some gains after the consumer sentiment report came out, but it has risen sharply throughout the course of the session. A few more Dow

components reporting solid Q3 numbers. Goldman is in the lead after a beat on APS and earnings per share and revenue this morning and you're seeing

that up 3-3/4. And that's lifted. Even for those who'd reported previously. J.P. Morgan's up to two percent.

American Express, visa and the like. Walgreens at the bottom, a bit of profit taking. Remember Walgreens, it's not in the bottom anymore but --

yes, I beg you a pardon, it is. But it -- after seven percent gain yesterday hardly surprising someone wants to take some money off the table.

President Biden says the world is watching the U.S. to see if it can pass its infrastructure bill. The President was speaking in Connecticut where he

called on Congress to pass his better -- to pass his Build Back Better agenda.


JOE BIDEN, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: The world is watching. Autocrats believe that the world is moving so rapidly that democracies cannot

generate consensus quickly enough to get things done. Not a joke. I've had these -- I've had hours and hours and hours of meetings and personal

conversations with Xi Jinping. I spent more time with him I believe than any other world leader has.

When I was vice president and now on the (INAUDIBLE) every time he calls, we talk on this and now it's a conversation between an hour and a half and

2-1/2 hours. Not a joke. My word. But he doesn't think democracies can compete because they can't react quickly enough.


QUEST: When it comes to dealing with China, the French finance minister Bruno Le Maire said European relations with the U.S. will also have to be

built back better. He was speaking to Julia Chatterley and he said the two partners must be on equal footing.


BRUNO LE MAIRE, FRENCH FINANCE MINISTER: One of the key question for the next decades is how to deal with China. And we don't want to gap between

European countries and the United States or to widen over the next month or the -- over the next years. I strongly believe that a better cooperation

between European countries and the United States is the right response to this question how to deal with China.

And my deepest thought is that we have to build back better between European countries and the United States. So that we can give the same kind

of response to this question how to deal with China.


LE MAIRE: So the first step would be once again through reinforce the ties and the cooperation between the United States and your banned countries.

But let's be very clear, on an equal footing, we are not junior partners. And France is not the junior partner of the United States, all European

countries representing 450 million people with a single market are not junior partners to the United States.

We wanted to be treated on an equal footing. And they really think that this is clearly in the interest of the United States, in the interest of

our American friends to have a stronger Europe and to have a Europe which would be more independent.


QUEST: Nothing there you can disagree with Michael Froman, former U.S. Trade Representative and now vice chair and president of Strategic Growth

at MasterCard. Qqual footing, says Bruno Le Maire, is he right?

MICHAEL FROMAN, VICE CHAIRMAN AND PRESIDENT, STRATEGIC GROWTH FOR MASTERCARD: Well, I do think that the minister is right that there's a lot

to be gained by the U.S., Europe, other like-minded countries coming together and having a common approach to the major economic challenges,

including the integration of China into the -- into the global economy. We have a lot of common interests in that regard.

And I do hope we can get to a conversation between China and the rest of the world about the major issues that are on the agenda. The structural

issues in China and the nature of some new issues around the digital economy as well.

WALLACE: Katherine Tai, the current United States Trade Representative gave a major speech in Geneva yesterday. The WTO, setting out how the Biden

administration views the WTO. Now there's an enormous amount that everybody agrees with, the disputes procedure that needs to be reformed. The

negotiating procedure that needs to be performed. But she also pretty much laid down a marker that the U.S. wanted the WTO to act differently.

FROMAN: Well, I think it's important that we focus less on the future of the WTO and more on the WTO of future. And by that I mean, if the global

leaders can come together and reach a common view. A consensus on what they are hoping to get out of the multilateral system. Where they think there's

the possibility of cooperating on new issues, for example, around the digital economy or e-commerce or those sorts of issues.

Then the institutional issues in my view, will sort themselves out. Oftentimes we get too focused on a particular meeting coming up or a

particular institution. What we really need is to have a political dialogue among leaders about what they expect out of global trading system.

QUEST: Right. But not you -- just look at the China situation. Now let's just take China. The tariffs and sanctions, if you will, that the Trump

administration introduced which Democrats railed against as being protectionist in the worst sought. Many of them remain. This administration

has not returned to the status quo ante.

FROMAN: Well, that's right. And I think what there needs to -- needs to happen is a real dialogue with China about what issues they're willing to

talk about. Policies of theirs that have an effect on the rest of the global economy and what issues the rest of the world is willing to put on

the table, including what to do about tariffs or restrictions on foreign investments or cooperation and research and development.

So we've sort of been dancing around each other. But there's a need to get beyond just a discussion of purchase and sale agreements of how much -- how

many soybeans are going to be bought or how much liquid -- liquefied natural gas is going to be imported, and really get to the structural

issues that are affecting the relationship between China and the rest of the world.

QUEST: It's not going to happen. I mean, there's no reason for it to happen. The Chinese are the sellers. They do have certain issues with

agriculture that they need to buy, but they have to whip hand in these negotiations.

FROMAN: Yes. Richard, I think that China has had a remarkable period of growth and success over the last several decades in part because there's

been a benign international environment and a global trading system that has allowed them to export their way to higher incomes. I think what they

need to sort of sort through is that system is going to be less benign going forward.

If other countries are going to close their markets to their exports, close their markets to investment, then what sort of challenges is that going to

pose to their growth model? And what compromises are they willing to make accordingly?

QUEST: And we need to talk more about these in the future. Michael, it's good to have you back with us on QUEST MEANS BUSINESS. We look forward to

your -- a quick and swift return again. Thank you, sir.


QUEST: And as we continue, the return to traditional farming to help the earth. The benefits of breadfruit and -- for farmers and for the soil.



QUEST: Our Call to Earth and growing concern the reliance of modern agriculture on monocultures, irrigation, fertilizers, pesticides in the

like. It's all the enemy of biodiversity in the soil and the health of that soil. That's why our Call to Earth this week, we're going to look at the

return to traditional farming. What does that mean? Well, we're off to Hawaii for some breadfruit.


DIANE RAGONE, DIRECTOR, BREADFRUIT INSTITUTE: I love breadfruit because it's a beautiful long live tropical tree. Once you put it into the ground

and care for it, you will have fruit in three to five years. It got its name because when the first European voyagers came upon this green roundish

thing roasting in the fire to them it smells like bread.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Locally known as Ulu, breadfruit was eaten in the Pacific Islands for centuries. Until plantation crops and monocultures took

over the menu and the landscape. Diane Ragone wants to bring it back to agroforests on Hawaii's Kauai Island. With the breadfruit Institute she has

worked for since 2003.

RAGONE: Diversity is an important part of the agroforest. So we've included a lot of ornamental. So when you walk through this area in addition to the

food, the fiber plants, the plants that feed the soil, we also have plant that feed our soul.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Her motivation is to feed communities in a way that not only sustains but regenerates the land.

RAGONE: The environmental benefits of a breadfruit tree are many. As a tree it provides a canopy. When there rains, the canopy will slow down the

raindrop. So protect the soil erosion. They're also important sources of food for other organisms.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Regenerative agriculture protects local food producers as well as the landscape.


NOE DICKINSON, AGRONOMIST, NATIONAL BOTANICAL GARDENS: It's hard to, especially in Hawaii to be a farmer and make enough money to pay your

bills. And a lot of times, it's because you need tools or extra inputs like fertilizers. You can potentially cut those costs and diversify and utilize

all of your land using Ulu as the backbone of your agroforests.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: But breadfruit is an acquired taste. Chefs on the island are experimenting with the best ways to cook it.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: When it's small and green and immature, it can be cooked and then marinated like artichoke.

The ripe breadfruit are used to make a delicious two thirds gluten free pie on Maui. There's a baker here on Hawaii who makes bagels. So it's very,

very versatile.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Well versatile in the kitchen, breadfruit grows best in the tropics. But in San Francisco, one company is determined to package

it for international consumption.

BIRGIT CAMERON, CO-FOUNDER, PATAGONIA PROVISIONS: We saw how this could really solve a big problem from a climate and people point of view. And we

wanted to put something to market to be able to tell that story.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Patagonia Provisions, an offshoot of the clothing brand has created three flavors of crackers using breadfruit flower.

CAMERON: My hopes for the future of breadfruit is that we are bringing value to these agroforests so they don't get cut down. There's a reason why

it was this -- they called it the tree of life that every child in Hawaii that was born received a breadfruit tree as a representation for food for


It's so important for humanity to have sustainable food crops that they can grow that are suitable for their growing conditions. And breadfruit is one



QUEST: We'll continue to showcase inspirational environmental stories like this as part of our initiative. And please let me know what you're doing to

answer that call, #CalltoEarth



ANNOUNCER: This is CNN breaking news.

QUEST: There are all cross party tributes to Sir David Amess and they continue tonight. Sir David was stabbed to death while meeting with his

constituents at a church in his home county of Essex. The Labour Party leader, Sir Keir Starmer has spoken saying it's time for the country to

come together.


KEIR STARMER, LEADER, LABOUR PARTY: Today is a dark and a shocking day. The more so because heartbreakingly we've been here before. Informed by his

faith, Sir David had a profound sense of public duty and he was highly respected and much liked across the houses of Parliament on all sides and

within the Christian community. We now have to come together in response to this horrendous act and show that violence, intimidation and threats will

never prevail over the tireless work of public servants like David. Simply doing his job.


QUEST: Sir Keir Starmer, the leader of the opposition, and the leader of the Labour Party. There will be much more coverage in the story in the

hours ahead. I'm Richard Quest in New York. As I leave you this hour. Paula Newton picks up all breaking news coverage. This is CNN.