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Quest Means Business

China Economy Slows As Lockdowns Threaten Supply Chains; Eight Cities In China Report Omicron Cases; Tennis Star Could Lose Key Sponsors Amid Vaccine Drama; Credit Suisse Chairman Resigns After Probe Into Conduct; World Economic Forum Meeting Virtually For 2nd Year; World's Billionaires Gained $5T In Wealth During Pandemic. Aired 3-4p ET

Aired January 17, 2022 - 15:00   ET


RICHARD QUEST, CNN BUSINESS ANCHOR: Normally, I'd be saying an hour to go about trading on Wall Street, but there is no trading with it being Martin

Luther King Day.

So let me show you instead European shares, which closed higher ahead of major earnings, which will be taking place later this week. All of the

bosses -- well, the best of the day seen in London. The FTSE is leading the way nearly up one percent, as I say U.S. markets off for Martin Luther


The markets and the main events to bring to your attention. A stark warning tonight. The chairman of DP World says that supply chain mess is here to

stay until at least 2023.


SULTAN AHMED BIN SULAYEM, CEO AND CHAIRMAN, DP WORLD: If today, the whole world said that's it, the pandemic is gone. It will be behind us. Still it

will take another two years for the supply chain to adjust.


QUEST: Lacoste wants answers from Novak Djokovic, the sponsor is asking for a review of the tennis star's expulsion from Australia; and the

Chairman of Credit Suisse resigns over allegations he broke COVID-19 rules.

Tonight, we are live in Dubai on Monday, it is January the 17th, I'm Richard Quest, and yes, I mean business.

Good evening. Tonight, we have a dire warning from one of the world's largest port operators. The Chairman of DP World tells me, global supply

snags are not going away anytime soon, and all at the same time as manufacturers are warning, the problems are being made worse by China's

COVID zero policy.

China's GDP growth slowed to only four percent year-on-year last quarter. Goldman has slashed its projection for China's growth to 4.3. That's almost

half of last year's. The country is tackling omicron in its port cities and trying to maintain its zero COVID policy.

So DP World is one of the largest port operators in the world and is very well placed to know exactly what is happening with supply chain issues. Its

Chairman Sultan Ahmed Bin Sulayem sees the problems for chain issues firsthand and told me, they are not going away fast, they'll drag on into

next year.


SULAYEM: The big problem really is supply chain disruption, delayed cargo arrival, congestion -- variable effects of the pandemic that in my opinion

will continue for a while. I mean, I can tell you this, if today the whole world said, that's it, the pandemic is gone -- behind us. Still, it will

take another two years for the supply chain to adjust, to be able to remove the backlog cargo out over the ships into the customer's hand.

QUEST: Wow. You think -- you think it could be as much as another two years before this is finished?

SULAYEM: This year and next year and there is no way we can move the cargo that is stuck. That has not been manufactured yet, demanded, required, and

that is being -- as you know, most of the automotive companies already, Porsche another announced delays in delivery, even iPhone 13 is not

available today. It is a big disruption.

QUEST: But what actually caused it? Was it, you know, this sudden increasing consumer demand for online shopping? In your view, why did it


SULAYEM: When disruption in the sense that factories were closed. They couldn't manufacture or ports were closed and they couldn't open and what

that ended up doing is that usually you have a cycle, the cargo is put in an empty container, empty container is sent by a ship, reach in Los

Angeles, deliver, empty container goes back.

Well, the problem is there is no empty container because all those containers are full and it will take time for this to become empty. And

then on top of that, the demand that the world requires every year hasn't been met, and you can see the disruption in the deliveries in Christmas,

many items did not arrive even somebody like Amazon are renting or buying ships to deliver themselves.


A lot has happened to make this worse, definitely.

QUEST: Do you think that the -- that there is more that governments could do? Now for instance, in the U.S., Los Angeles, open 24 hours a day, the

port there, but you can't suddenly build new ports. You can't build new infrastructure. So do you think there is something that governments can do

to make things better?

SULAYEM: I don't think so. It's not in the hand of government, it is basically supply chain problem. You know, when they opened the port in Los

Angeles, 24 hours, it didn't really help.

QUEST: If we look at DP World, where are you headed with this? Where are you now looking to put your future investment as we come out of COVID?

SULAYEM: Well, we have been I think, fortunate that we are farsighted in investing a lot in logistics. If you notice what we invested in the last

six years, it is exactly what the shipping lines are today doing. They are acquiring logistic facilities, warehousing, and distribution companies, we

did that already and that is what's helping us a lot to deal with cargo to be able to move the cargo.

Six years ago, we only -- only the business we had inside the ports. Today, we are outside the port.

QUEST: But if you go into the logistics business in a big way, aren't you competing with your other customers, the shippers?

SULAYEM: It is the other way around, actually, shippers are only carrying cargo on their vessels. Now, they own port just like us. They compete, they

own logistics facilities.

We are actually providing facilities so that we can deliver to the customer end to end solution. Everybody in the supply chain talks about last mile,

last mile is important. In my opinion, today, as you see today, first mile and last mile.

Supply chain isn't just on the ship, supply chain from the factory, supply chain from the warehouse. Supply chain from, you know, the supplier. A lot

of things has to be done.

I am optimistic with the result of it now, and I am optimistic that we are taking steps, us and the shipping lines to ease the congestion. But I don't

believe the cost of shipping is going to reduce. I think, it will stay for a while.


QUEST: Sultan Ahmed Bin Sulayem talking to me.

Meanwhile, with 17 days to go before the Beijing Winter Olympics, China will note -- says it will no longer allow the general public to attend as

part of the response to COVID-19.

The organizing committee announced that it will end all ticket sales and instead invite groups of spectators to watch the games in person. The new

guidelines come after Beijing recorded its first case of the highly transmissible omicron over the weekend.

Omicron is surfacing in major Chinese cities across the country. The outbreaks are prompting more mass testing and lockdowns. CNN's David Culver

is in Beijing.


DAVID CULVER, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice over): Omicron breaching Beijing's borders, a single case putting the Winter Olympics host city on high alert.

China's zero COVID policy making no exceptions.

In the capital city, targeted lockdowns immediately activated along with strict contact tracing. Chinese health officials publicized the infected

person's recent travel history starting with their home.

We drove by the Beijing community where the woman diagnosed with omicron lives. Remember, health authorities say all of this sparked by just one

case, at least for now.

CULVER (on camera): Here we go. You can see here, this is one of the entrances and exits, it is gated off. They've put these big blue barriers

to keep folks from going in and out.

CULVER (voice over): The woman's neighbors allowed some fresh air, but confined to the complex, their trash piling up waiting for especially

designated disposal teams to truck it out. Many nearby businesses closed.

The woman lives a 15-minute drive from the Olympic Park.

CULVER (on camera): Not only where she lives that health authorities have it locked down, but also where the woman works, which happens to be in a

bank inside this building.

So out front, you can see they've got these blue tent setup, where a lot of times they'll do testing and processing before they can finally declare it

safe enough to reopen.

CULVER (voice over): But if you think it's just a bunch of empty offices, look closer. COVID control staff carting in big boxes. Inside them, can you

read that? Pillows, betting people have actually been locked down at work and these supplies might make their stay a bit more comfortable for what

could be days of testing.

Omicron not only in Beijing, cases also surfacing in several other Chinese cities including Shanghai. Social media showing snap lockdowns trapping

shoppers at one store.


(voice over): Outside this mall, a person posting that this woman was emotional wanting to hold the child who was staring back at her from behind

the glass. Although it is unclear when the woman and child were reunited, officials kept them all closed for two days as they tested those inside,

performing a deep clean before reopening.

Sounds extreme, but most online voicing their support for the strict containment efforts.

Less than three weeks until the Olympics and recent outbreaks had 20 million people sealed in their homes; others, bused to centralized


State media showing these makeshift encampments built within days. Mass testing is a constant.

Back in Beijing, I hopped in line for my regularly scheduled COVID test.

(on camera): That's number 97. Done.

(voice over): But if you think the heavy measures have brought life here to a halt, most who are not traveling might say otherwise.

On Sunday, crowds flocking to this popular Beijing Lake, frozen just in time for the Winter Games, families enjoying the chill and seemingly

confident officials will keep COVID in check.

David Culver, CNN, Beijing.


QUEST: Fascinating story, and CEOs are more optimistic about the global economy in the latest PwC Global CEO Survey, more optimistic than they have

been since the survey started asking the question some 12 years ago, 10 years ago. Seventy-seven percent of respondents predicted a stronger global

economy this year, more than 4,000 CEOs responded to the survey which closed before the emergence of omicron.

CEOs were most worried about cyber risks, of course, followed by the lingering pandemic and then macroeconomic volatility.

Bob Moritz is the Global Chair PwC. Bob is with me now.

Bob, do you think --

BOB MORITZ, GLOBAL CHAIR, PwC: Thank you, Richard.

QUEST: Do you think that the results would be any different post omicron?

MORITZ: I think you probably would see a dampening of the results in terms of the optimism, but I don't think it'll be my much, Richard. The reality

is, the CEOs have dealt with a lot over the last two years and they feel like they've actually created a degree of resiliency and opportunity that

they can all capture, and that is why they're optimistic when you look across all of the various factors, including some of the risks you

mentioned at the start.

QUEST: Is that optimism merited? We have inflation. We have arguably stagflation in some places. We have higher interest rates, and we have a

febrile market. So why are these CEOs so optimistic?

MORITZ: So let's put it all into context, Richard. The question was back to, are you more confident that we'll see the economy increase compared to

last year? And are you confident you can grow your revenues more so going - - looking forward for the next 12 months?

The answer in terms of why they say yes, is a combination of factors. Some of those things you've talked about, they are well aware of those. But

let's also put into context the CEO's mindset right now.

Two years ago, a year ago, we were dealing with a tremendous amount of uncertainty. Not sure if we would get anybody back to the office, not sure

if we were dealing with the Spanish Flu equivalent, as we thought about COVID, so all relative to where we are today.

The second thing I would say is that the CEOs have learned to make faster decisions to respond to their customers. The degree of customer confidence

and their engagement, their willingness to respond to those customers gives them the confidence that they can create a great customer experience. They

have more trust, if they have more trust, they have more opportunities to raise revenues, and therefore the confidence comes through what they are

saying in the PwC survey.

QUEST: You raise the question of trust and we've got two cases of, I suppose trust in a wider sense. You've obviously got the Djokovic case

where it relates to COVID, and you've got the Chairman of Credit Suisse who resigned because he had taken some flights that he shouldn't have done and

done travel he shouldn't have done.

Now, I'm not asking you to comment directly necessarily on either of those cases. Instead, I'm asking you, is there a view that the rules don't apply

to the elites, that somehow it's -- you know, to quote Leona Helmsley -- the late Leona Helmsley -- taxes are for little people.

MORITZ: Look, the reality here, Richard is we are in a vastly new world. We see disruption in terms of the haves and the have nots, and as a result,

there is an awakening in terms of what is fair and just, and we see as a result, changes to both rules, but also interpretations of rules, and

that's going to be very important as CEOs, management teams, and the business community connect with their stakeholders.

Because if there is no trust, they are either out of a job or out of business, and that's going to be the new world that they have to deal with

going forward.


QUEST: But Bob, how do you tell your staff -- you've got hundred thousands of them, how do you tell them you have to comport yourself properly, you

have to behave. You know, you are the privileged few, you have to behave as such.

MORITZ: Richard, many organizations, including PwC go through a number of different initiatives to ensure the appropriate behavior, and when we have

exceptions, deal with them appropriately, fast, and transparently and fairly.

For example, we put our people through ethics training every single year. We ask them to pass tests based upon that training. We also asked them to

self-administer and self-report in terms of their adherence to those requirements.

These are the kinds of things that enable trust inside of an organization, as well as how they interact with those outside of an organization and this

concept of trust and stakeholder engagement is so important, be it your investors, your consumers, your employees, or those in the communities in

which you operate.

And that world is now way bigger judge through social media, we see it.

QUEST: Right.

MORITZ: Decisions like those you mentioned are getting to the media faster, so the brand is being impacted. So brand management and overall

risk management and the training and ethical behavior is key for any organization we will argue going forward.

QUEST: Well, you and I should have been having this conversation face to face up a mountainside in Switzerland. All I know is, we will someday have

that conversation -- or a conversation up that mountain side and be complaining about the weather.

Good to see you, Bob. Thank you.

QUEST MEANS BUSINESS, after $30 million is on the line, for the tennis champion, Novak Djokovic, his visa battle with Australia may turn out to be

the least of his worries now.


QUEST: Novak Djokovic's brand is in trouble tonight as some of his multimillion dollar backers are rethinking that relationship. The French

clothing brand, Lacoste, wants a meeting with the tennis star as soon as possible. It is calling for an internal review of the events that led to

his deportation from Australia.

Djokovic has also had endorsement deals with the carmaker, Peugeot; the Swiss watchmaker, Hublot; and the sportswear giant, Asics. Now, all these

contracts could be in question.


The world's number one rakes in around $30 million a year on sponsorship deals alone according to

Djokovic is now back in his native Serbia, after losing the legal challenge, of course, to stay in Australia and Scott McLean joins me from


Now, I'm guessing in Belgrade or in Serbia, this is one place where Djokovic is going to find a predominance of those supporting him.

SCOTT MCLEAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes, that's right, Richard.

I think in Belgrade, there is God up here and then probably not too far behind, it seems like there's Novak Djokovic. This man is worshipped in

this country. He almost seems infallible.

And look, if you ask people about Novak Djokovic, even the people who thinks, yes, he probably should have gotten vaccinated, they are still

supportive of him a hundred percent, and by and large, even those same people will tell you that, look, it is his personal choice whether or not

to get vaccinated.

I spoke with one young man at the airport today who was there with a Serbian flag to show his support for his national hero. And he said, "I am

vaccinated. But I also don't think that any government should be telling me or Novak Djokovic to get vaccinated." And certainly that's the position,

that's the sort of awkward position that the Serbian government has found themselves in as well, because they would very much like to have their

citizens vaccinated and get this pandemic over with, but they're struggling to boost the numbers.

And they think that if Djokovic would get vaccinated, it would certainly help; however, they're not in a position to force anybody to get vaccinated

and they've made that quite clear that it is up to each individual person that is overwhelmingly the sentiment you hear in this country.

QUEST: And Scott, the idea of -- he went to Belgrade, of course that is his hometown. Do we know how long he's likely to stay there?

MCLEAN: Well, probably at least, the Australian Open though it's not clear where he would go. We know that he has homes in Spain. We know he has a

home in Monaco as well. He has at least one property here in Belgrade.

The real thing is, he might not be playing tennis for a while because at this point, Richard, the French Open, the Minister of Sports in France has

said that there will be no exceptions to the France Vaccine Pass Law which requires people to show proof of vaccination for restaurants, bars, and

also sporting venues and that would include even the athletes at the French Open.

He may also have a bit of an annoying time getting to Wimbledon because he would have to quarantine, but he may also have trouble getting to the U.S.

Open as well.

So Novak Djokovic certainly has some decisions to make on what he wants to do about vaccination or perhaps he could wait it out and see how long these

vaccine mandates really last for.

QUEST: Scott McLean, who is in Belgrade, thank you, sir.

It's absolutely a mess as Scott has outlined for future tennis tournaments. Our next guest says Djokovic only has himself to blame. That may be true.

CNN's sports analyst is Christine Brennan. She is with me now.

Now, I mean, so he -- it's going to be a battle in every one of those major tournaments to get there without doing massive quarantines and to play.

CHRISTINE BRENNAN, CNN SPORTS ANALYST: Well, it is Richard and it leaves so many questions.

This is a man in the prime of his career. He is 34 years old, Djokovic is. He is number one in men's tennis. He said the peak of his -- of all of his

great tennis ability, earning potential. You mentioned the "Forbes" $30 million top 50 of all athletes on Earth and he is choosing to pick this

fight over vaccines when we know athletes get shots for you know, painkillers. I'm not saying he has or hasn't, but the odds are he probably


Is he vaccinated for polio? Did he get other vaccines as a kid? It is a stunning, stunning line for him to be drawing right here right now. It's

amazing. I never thought I'd see this.

QUEST: So when you look at for example, the French Open and Wimbledon, I agree they are many months away and the COVID situation could look

extremely different.

But his behavior over Australia, fighting it to the end which he was entitled to do but one can question, going out whilst positive, the form

that wasn't filled in correctly. It is creating a picture that's very hard to defend him, even if you respect his right not to be vaccinated.


BRENNAN: Right. Right. If you're an anti-vaxxer and this is your guy, you know, he is your guy and Aaron Rodgers in the NFL. You know, this is --

it's really hard to defend.

I mean, his behavior, Djokovic's behavior, Richard, over the last month or so has been awful and he thought he was going to saunter on into Australia,

by the way, the City of Melbourne has been hit hard. Their citizens have done the right thing, 260 days of quarantine, and this -- where are

Djokovic's advisers to tell him, you know, you got to be careful here, pal, because these people have suffered so much.

Nope, you know, he just threw caution to the win, and decided he was going to have it his way. The ultimate in athlete entitlement, Richard, and also

the ultimate slap down, the ultimate defeat for athlete entitlement.

And yes, the French don't want this. They don't want the same kind of circus. No way.

QUEST: So, so, so, Christine, what's your gut feeling? I know, we don't know, but sponsors will be looking to see how this is playing out in the

court of public opinion, because that's going to harm their brand.

From your experience, will they play safe? Or will they take a risk?

BRENNAN: We saw this with Tiger Woods when he had his run in with a fire hydrant back in 2009 and sponsors dropped him, everyone but golf sponsors

dropped him.

You know, these sponsors are spending tons of money on these athletes, and they do not want controversy and they also want something else, Richard,

they want the athletes to actually be playing. They want the athletes to get on in this case, the court and be in front of television cameras with

the name of the sponsor on TV. So Djokovic has just killed all of that.

And so my sense is that they're not happy about this. Often, they'll have clauses about behavior as well, and that they can cancel contracts. I do

not know the specifics of Lacoste and Asics and others here, but usually, there is some kind of a behavior morals clause as well, where you can

cancel if you feel the athlete has not been -- has been lying or deceiving or in some other way, I guess, we'd call it misbehaving. And I think we

could say Djokovic has done all of that.

QUEST: Christine Brennan, it is good to have you with us tonight. I appreciate it. Thank you.

Now, as we continue tonight on QUEST MEANS BUSINESS, after just nine months, the chair of our global investment bank has stepped down. There's

an investigation or a report of investigation that prompted his exit and we'll talk about it.

And funny, I've talked about tennis, how going to Wimbledon did it in for this guy, along with of course, over to other allegations.



QUEST: Welcome back. QUEST MEANS BUSINESS tonight in Dubai. Less than a year into the job and the chairman of Credit Suisse has stepped down from

the investment bank. Following an investigation into his conduct. Antonio Horta-Osorio didn't specify the nature of the probe and he announced his

resignation on Monday. Reuters and the Wall Street Journal reporting that it examined his personal actions including travel that breached COVID rules

and his use of company jet.

CNN Anna Stewart joins us from London with the details. Let's first of all deal with the allegations or what is he supposed to have done?

ANNA STEWART, CNN REPORTER: Well, the bank's been quite quiet in terms of the actual investigation itself. And we don't know the exact wrongdoing

that was done here. But from reports from the Wall Street Journal and from Reuters, as we understand it, the chairman came to Wimbledon. He traveled

from Switzerland to the U.K. in July last year. At that time, you had to quarantine if you're traveling in from Switzerland and allegedly, he did


So, that would be a criminal offence. And were also some allegations regarding the use of private jets belonging to the firm. Again, we don't

have much detail. what we do know though. Richard is that the Chairman has not refuted in these claims. Statement from Antonio Horta-Osoriolate last

night saying a number of my personal actions, personal actions have led to difficulties to the bank, compromised his ability to represent them

internally, externally and so on.

He saw fit to resign, and he has done so and he has been replaced with immediate effects by Axel Lehmann.

QUEST: Now, Horta-Osorio, former from Lloyds. I mean, he's had a fairly -- I would say controversial background but getting into Credit Suisse in the

first place was quite a business.

STEWART: It was but he was the man who was going to clean up shop, he turned around Lloyds, he was knighted for doing so. He's quite a character.

He's incredibly well known in the banking industry. He was seen as a breath of fresh air being dropped into the Swiss bank that has so many problems

that we can get into. Scandal after scandal, terrible risk taking in terms of investments. This was the man that would turn it around.

He hasn't had much of a chance to do so. He's been there for just nine months. And he's been replaced by someone very much from within the Swiss

financial circles. So what -- when you had a big change which investors really did like last year and now looks like we're reverting back to an

older model for this bank.

QUEST: OK. But Anna, the -- to have lost the CEO or the chairman in this way, when the bank is under such great pressure. I'm not suggesting it's

one rule for one on one rule for the other. But it clearly does indicate that they took this extremely seriously.

STEWART: I think what it shown is perhaps finally, Credit Suisse has a zero tolerance for wrongdoing on the board. And I think that is what investors

need to see the stage given the litany of errors over the last few years from spying scandals to dreadful risk management with (INAUDIBLE) with

Greensville, most recently being fined nearly half a billion dollars for very dodgy fine to Mozambique related to tuna fishing.

They defaulted investors. Honestly the stories have kept going. The shame with all of this is this chairman has made some serious personal errors.

And he clearly owns up to that and he had to perhaps leave. But he didn't make any of the errors that Credit Suisse has been very much punished for

by the investors. The issues that need to change. The legacy problems of the bank. And that will now go to not just the CEO who's there now, who

arrived only late last year, but also to the new chairman. So a lot of problems for them to deal with.

QUEST: Anna Stewart in London, thank you. Davos got underway today. And normally, of course, we would be that up the mountain with the swingometer

and all questions. However, for the second year in a row the confabulation of the world's richest is being held virtually because of the pandemic.

China's President Xi Jinping spoke at today's opening session, when he urged the world to discard its cold war mentality and warned the global

economy still faced many constraints from the pandemic.



XI JINPING, CHINESE PRESIDENT (through translator): The world economy is emerging from the depth yet it still faces many constraints. The global

industrial supply chains have been disrupted. Commodity prices continue to rise, energy supply remains tight. These risks compound one another, and

heightened uncertainty about economic recovery.


QUEST: Now ahead of this year's summit, of course, Oxfam released its regular report, which we always focus, because it's so important. It

highlights the growing wealth gap billionaires added $5 trillion to their wealth since last year's wealth. Peter Goodman is the global economic

correspondent for The New York Times. He's the author of Davos Man: How the Billionaires Devoured the World. He joins us now. Peter, it is always good

to see you.

And I wish we could be talking at the top of a mountain excoriating those very Davos Man and women apart which we know. Davos Man has been around for

a long time. The one thing about Davos Man and the Davos gender, they know how to survive.

PETER GOODMAN, GLOBAL ECONOMIC CORRESPONDENT, NEW YORK TIMES: Oh, they know how to thrive. I mean, they have feasted on the calamity of the pandemic.

And it's not an accident. These findings in this Oxfam report, it's not an accident that the billionaires have added to their wealth while the vast

majority of people on Earth have seen their fortunes decline.

Davos Man, I mean, that's a term that goes back to Samuel Huntington's usage to refer not only to the people who go to the World Economic Forum,

but the people who are so rich, their wealth, so complex stretching across jurisdictions that they employ, you know, legions of accountants and

lobbyists, they essentially write the rules for the rest of us. And those rules, guess what, are written for the perpetuation of Davos Man's wealth

often at the expense of societal wealth.

And that's exactly what's happened during the pandemic. We've seen the relief programs in many major economies use kind of corporate welfare

schemes, and the rest of us have suffered.

QUEST: You -- I read the summaries, and I saw your comments in this than the other. But I guess you've known this, Peter, you've covered it for long

enough. And unless you're a closet socialist, who's determined to put your boots and hats and bring the whole thing down, you've know what that like?

GOODMAN: Well, I mean, first of all, I'm not a closet socialist. I'm a very public capitalist. And I mean, I think part of why I've written this book

now after 10 years of going to Davos and 25 years of writing about economics. And further than that, if you go back to dot com boom is, you

know, it's clear that while we may see through the artifice of Davos and it may be pretty easy to poke some fun at the hypocrisy of the richest people

on Earth, gathering on a mountaintop under the rubric committed to improving the state of the world when of course, they are the chief

beneficiaries of the status quo.

But it's important to understand that their language and their worldview has, in some cases subtly insinuated itself into the worldview of all of us

and the operations of our democracies. I mean, we may be able to laugh at the idea that we're supposed to feel oneness with Jeff Bezos or Steve

Schwarzman or Marc Benioff, at a time of a pandemic. I mean, Benioff, the CEO of Salesforce has famously said that it's a unifying force.

We're all as humans vulnerable to one pandemic. We can see through that easily and understand that people who are delivering packages, who work in

slaughterhouses, people who can't do their jobs on Zoom, they're a lot more vulnerable than Benioff who lives in an oceanfront mansion in Hawaii to say

nothing of just white collar professionals. But, you know, we've accepted I think, this idea that we --


GOODMAN: Yes. Go ahead.

QUEST: Do you think -- because we're out coming (INAUDIBLE) do you think you'll have difficulty getting to talk to these people in the future? Will

they look upon you in the future and say, a (INAUDIBLE)

GOODMAN: Oh, I don't know. I mean, I think - I think somebody who's truly committed to improving the state of the world won't take that view. Because

what I'm talking about is transparency in markets and making sure that economies are more sustainable for everyone. I mean, ultimately, more

people have to prosper and share some of the gains of capitalism, which is a fantastic wealth enhancing system, or the whole thing breaks down or

democracies break down. Nobody believes in anything. You can't get people to take vaccines.

QUEST: Peter, we will talk more. I will have you back. Well, we are always welcome, you know that. You're always welcome on QUEST MEANS BUSINESS. And

when we're up that mountain we'll also talk then. Thank you, Peter Goodwin of the New York Times.

GOODMAN: Thank you, Richard.

QUEST: I got to show -- I would show you -- I would show you the mark It's of course in New York but they are close today to the Martin Luther --

Martin Luther King Day. So the markets are closed there.


QUEST: There were good gains on the European versus -- the Euro versus also gains around one percent. The best was in London. And that's QUEST MEANAS

BUSINESS. And in about 20 minutes from now, I'll have -- I'll say a short summary of the day's business news. We'll have a dash to the bell without

the bell. Coming up next, Connecting Africa. This is CNN.