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Quest Means Business
WSJ: FBI Seized 11 Sets Of Classified Documents At Mar-a-Lago; US Markets Rise As Investors Cheer Inflation Data; Swedish Inflation Slow To 8.0 Percent In July; Family: Anne Heche Is "Braind Dead" But Remains In Life Support; Author Salman Rushdie Stabbed At New York Event; Judge Unseals Trump Mar-a-Lago Search Warrant. Aired 3-4p ET
Aired August 12, 2022 - 15:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[15:00:00]
ZAIN ASHER, CNN INTERNATIONAL HOST: A hot summer on Wall Street. The S&P 500 and the NASDAQ on track for full straight week of gains. Green arrows
across the screen. Those are the markets and these are the main events.
The deadline has passed and we may be about to get a first look at the FBI's warrant to search Donald Trump's Florida residence.
And Argentina raises interest rates to more than 69 percent as inflation hits a 20-year high.
And the latest on the shocking attack against writer, Salman Rushdie.
Coming to you live from New York, it is Friday, August 12. I'm Zain Asher, and this is QUEST MEANS BUSINESS.
The clock has run out and we may soon get our first look at the FBI's warrants to search Donald Trump's Florida residence. Just minutes ago, the
deadline expired for the former President's lawyers to oppose the release of the documents. Mr. Trump posted on social media this morning that he
would not oppose and in fact, encourages the release of that paperwork, but it wasn't clear just what his lawyers would do.
"The Wall Street Journal" is reporting that the FBI recovered 11 sets of classified documents in the search at Mar-a-Lago, including several
documents of the highest security clearance levels.
CNN Justice correspondent, Jessica Schneider joins us live now. So Jessica, the deadline has officially passed it is exactly 3:01 in the afternoon
here. I'm looking at my clock. It turns out that Donald Trump's lawyers did not oppose the release of these documents. What happens next?
JESSICA SCHNEIDER, CNN JUSTICE CORRESPONDENT: Well, we don't know for sure yet, but what's interesting here is that while we're still waiting these
court documents where we'll find out exactly what maybe agreement DOJ and Trump's lawyers have come to, it seems pretty clear that they are not going
to object to releasing these documents.
That's because several news outlets have actually already revealed what FBI agents recovered from Mar-a-Lago, and Zain, you mentioned it, you know,
"The Wall Street Journal" was one of those outlets publishing a list.
They say that agents took about 20 boxes of items, and that included 11 sets of classified documents, including some of which were marked as "Top
Secret" here, which means that, you know, being top secret, they're only meant to be kept in special government facilities and they seem to be
recovered from Mar-a-Lago here.
So "The Wall Street Journal" also reporting that there was information about the President of France without any more elaboration, but we're still
waiting to get maybe more details about what else might be released because what's come out so far is part of the receipt. We're looking to maybe get
an exact look at the search warrant itself that could be coming in the minutes to come.
But you know, in the meantime, here in the past hour or so, we've already seen former President Trump in attack mode. He released a statement just a
little while ago, saying that all this material was unclassified. That doesn't actually seem to be the case, but that's what Trump is asserting.
Trump also saying that agents should not have entered his home with this search warrant. And then at the end of this statement, Trump actually
attacked former President Obama falsely, falsely alleging that Obama took 33 million pages of documents to Chicago. That was Trump's assertion.
But right after he made that claim, the National Archives sent out a response and they said that the allegation was false. And actually, they
laid out what happened with Obama's records. They say that, in fact, National Archives got exclusive possession of all of Obama's records, as
soon as he left office in 2017 and they broke it down.
They said that 30 million pages of unclassified records were kept by the National Archives in their facility in Chicago, and then additional
classified presidential records from Obama. They're actually in a facility in Washington, DC.
So the National Archives was pushing back on Trump's claims here, and they made clear that Obama has no control over these records at all. And Zain,
that's quite a contrast from really what's being alleged right now is that Trump kept boxes of documents, many of which were classified at his Mar-a-
Lago home and resort, and that is what led to everything we've seen transpire over the past few days, and even the last few months, our team
has reported that Trump's lawyers over the past several months met with Federal investigators, and maybe there had been some cooperation over
returning these documents, but then something changed and Federal agents had to go in with this search warrant to recover even more documents.
Again, waiting for a bit more detail, but some outlets now have more detail about what was in these documents. They say 20 boxes of items, 11 sets of
classified documents. So as soon as we get more details in from any court filing, we'll get back to you guys.
ASHER: Yes. It's a nail biter of a wait, I'll tell you that much.
Jessica Schneider live for us there, thank you so much.
The FBI raid caps off a week of unprecedented legal moves against Donald Trump.
[15:05:07]
This morning, a New York State Court Judge declined to throw out a criminal tax case against the former President's family business clearing the way
for Court proceedings to begin in the fall.
On Wednesday, the former President himself appeared at a scheduled a deposition into whether the Trump Organization provided misleading
financial statements to tax authorities and lenders. There, he invoked his Fifth Amendment right against self-incrimination opting not to answer any
questions from the New York Attorney General.
And now, we know that the FBI seized highly classified documents from the former President's Florida residence.
I want to bring in the Kim Wehle, a former Assistant US Attorney.
Kim, thank you so much for being with us. So we're getting some color from other news outlets. For example, "The Wall Street Journal" reporting that
20 boxes were taken here. Just explain to us what sort of detail, what sort of information we expect to get as and when the search warrant is unsealed?
KIM WEHLE, FORMER ASSISTANT US ATTORNEY: Well, it looks like there'll be two main pieces of information. One is the return that will outline in some
detail what was actually taken by the FBI and that was left with Donald Trump's attorney, the same document. And "The Wall Street Journal" has
reported that they are the highest security level boxes that were included, the top secret and then lower classified information.
So as just Jessica Schneider indicated, that high level is the kind of thing that's kept in very, very secure facilities, only a certain number of
people are allowed to even see it. And so the fact that that was in Mar-a- Lago without that kind of security clearance for anyone, including Donald Trump, he no longer has that security clearance in this moment.
The other thing that we will reportedly find out based on these other news outlets confirmed potentially through the DOJ and the Court is a list of
the legal criminal statutes that could have been the source or the basis for the search here and things ranging from espionage to destruction or
concealment of documents, those criminal statutes that are separate from the Presidential Records Act.
The Presidential Records Act just says you've got to turn everything over before you turn the keys to the White House over, every President, but
these criminal statutes apply to everyone. And it essentially says you can't be destroying, concealing, taking away these various federal records
that belong to the people, not to any one person.
ASHER: And part of the sort of goal here of the FBI, just in terms of this search warrant is to establish intent that Trump perhaps willingly took
these documents and shipped them to Mar-a-Lago knowing that, you know, that wasn't necessarily the right thing to do.
Just explain to us, why might a former President want to ship 20 boxes of documents from the White House to his private residence, including 11 sets
of classified documents? I'm asking you to enter into the former President's mind here. Just walk us through that.
WEHLE: Yes, so just to clarify, so the search warrant itself, is just to actually go in and get what appears to be probable cause that there is
evidence of a crime on the premises, and it has to be fresh.
So in the last few weeks, the FBI got information to justify a Judge signing a warrant. The intent element that you point out is really
important for proving any of these potential crimes. And it looks like already the former President is saying A.: I declassified things. You know,
to be able to sort of in your mind or on your own with a swoop of a pen, declassify things, I think that that is not borne out in the law, because
there has to be a clear record of what documents are and are not classified.
Because if it's done kind of in a willy-nilly way, they're not protected anymore. That's one of his arguments. Another could be, it was done by
mistake, but we know that the subpoena went out early this year. And the first you know, 15 boxes of documents did come back. There was some bad
faith there. Right?
So for whatever reason, 10 or 11 boxes, despite the FBI issuing a subpoena working with Donald Trump's lawyers, that didn't make it back and that
included, you know, classified information. So I think it's going to be a very difficult challenge for counselors if this actually ends up with an
indictment to argue that he did not have knowledge -- the requisite knowledge and intent.
But as you indicate, Zain, that is really -- that's the hardest part or the trickiest part in criminal prosecutions for good reason, because a criminal
prosecution unlike a civil prosecution can actually take someone's liberty away, put them in jail, so Donald Trump, as he did with you mentioned in
the New York State deposition, civil deposition, invoked the Fifth Amendment. Donald Trump is a regular citizen right now and he is entitled
to all the protections of the Constitution that are afforded to people that are ensnared in the criminal justice system that aren't former Presidents.
[15:10:25]
ASHER: At what point will we learn whether a search warrant was indeed actually justified? I mean, Merrick Garland said that this is not something
the Justice Department would ever do, whatever sort of do likely, as it were.
When will we learn whether this was really justified?
WEHLE: Well, you know, as somebody who has sort of practiced law, you know, been in the Justice Department previously, I'm a Law Professor for 16
years. You know, I am confident it was justified unless it's disproved because, as again, a Federal Judge had to be persuaded that there was
probable cause. The Fourth Amendment protects people from, you know, unreasonable searches and seizures. That's a difference between America and
England under King George III where he could just roam around.
So you know, I think that the bigger question. I mean, we might presumably, we'll see the war today, et cetera. But I really think that the focus right
now is on how much damage was done to a national security by these very top secret documents, getting out of the secure facilities that every other
President to date has respected. Who all else saw them? Did they get into the hands of our enemies? I think that is really the urgent concern, less
so whether the warrant was justified because there were so many levels both inside the Justice Department, FBI Director Christopher Wray, appointed by
Donald Trump signed off, Merrick Garland signed off, a Federal Judge signed off, and they all knew it would be subject to real public scrutiny.
And honestly, to get to your legal question, if this ever went to trial, Donald Trump could challenge that legally. And then a later Federal Judge,
and even potentially Appellate Court Judge, maybe even the Supreme Court will be able to just double check the record of what DOJ and the lower
Judge did here.
So I'm not really so worried that that process was done in an illegal way in this moment.
ASHER: Right. Because the FBI, as you point out will have to have probable cause. Just quickly, because I've got about 20 seconds left. Will we get
this document within the next hour or so? Now that the 3:00 PM deadline has passed?
WEHLE: Well, yes, because under the Court's order, or the request, I should say by DOJ, that the Court said by three o'clock, DOJ had to let the
Court know what Donald Trump's position was. And Donald Trump reportedly has not filed an opposition.
So in that instance, the Judge -- unless the Judge really wants to intervene here in a major way, will probably defer to DOJ and Donald
Trump's consent by not having opposed it.
So I think we will see the official document probably by the end of business today, if not first thing on Monday.
ASHER: I see. So not necessarily within the next hour, but you think -- you think in the next couple of hours, if not by Monday morning. Okay, I'm
just looking at the clock.
WEHLE: Yes, it's impossible to know. I think the Judge is very aware that the American people want to see what's going on here.
ASHER: Yes.
WEHLE: So yes, it makes sense to really to stay tuned.
ASHER: All right, Kim Wehle, thank you so much for being with us.
All right, coming up: Argentina is facing one of the toughest fights against inflation in the world. Now, the Central Bank is stepping up its
efforts. All that and more, after the break.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[15:16:13]
ASHER: US markets are higher on Friday. Rising optimism among investors on inflation. The Dow is up more than 350 points. Tech stocks are leading the
way. The NASDAQ is up almost two percent. It has been a summer of gains for the market.
The S&P 500 is up 16 percent from its lows in June, while the NASDAQ is up around 20 percent.
David Kelly is the Chief Global Strategist at JPMorgan Asset Management. He joins us live now.
David, thank you so much for being with us. Do you think the optimism here, just the optimism that investors are displaying, is it justified?
DAVID KELLY, CHIEF GLOBAL STRATEGIST, JPMORGAN ASSET MANAGEMENT: I think so. I mean, I think the thing that everyone has been worried about all year
is that inflation was getting out of hand, and what we've seen this week, we've had three reports on the consumer prices, on producer prices, and now
and import prices. And all of them show that there is sort of some this inflation cold front is moving through. The inflation rate is clearly now
coming down.
We've seen gasoline prices fall by more than a dollar. And if inflation does come down, that means the Federal Reserve doesn't have to raise
interest rates as much and that is a good environment for stocks. So, I'm not surprised to see the stock market rallying off this news.
ASHER: So with inflation coming down, what do you think that that means? At the same time, inflation efficient is coming down, but we did get that
stellar jobs report just in the previous jobs report showing half a million jobs added. What are those combination of factors mean for the next sort of
Fed rate hike scheduled for the end of September?
KELLY: Well, I think the Federal Reserve needs to realize, and I think they do realize that this is a very unusual economy because of the
pandemic. What happened is, we came out of the pandemic with all these job openings, we had two job openings for every unemployed worker, which has
never happened in the United States in the last 50 years.
And with all those job openings, it's taking a while to fill those positions. And that's why I think we've got this very strong job growth.
But I think the Federal Reserve also knows that the economy is slowing down. In fact, we had negative GDP growth in the first half of the year,
and I don't think growth will be much faster in the second half of the year.
So this is a slowing economy, the jobs market is just a little bit misleading here. And if the economy is slowing down, if gasoline prices are
rolling over, the Federal Reserve does need to take it easier, and I think they will. I think -- you know, I don't think we'll get 75 basis points in
September. I think they'll raise interest rates by half a percent, instead of 0.75 percent.
So I think they will take it a little easier going forward.
ASHER: Yes. You've had two consecutive quarters of sort of negative GDP, but really at the same time, again, as I mentioned this supercharged jobs
report. What do you -- when you talk about inflation, you talk about the economy slowing down. What do you think in terms of the likelihood of a
recession happening anytime soon? If you do think a recession is around the corner, will it be a shallow one, as some people are indicating?
KELLY: Yes. It is kind of like getting an asymptomatic COVID, we might have an asymptomatic recession in which technically -- it which
technically, yes, we've got a recession, but it doesn't feel like recession.
A recession where the unemployment rate is 3.6 percent is really not -- it doesn't feel like a recession. So I think I think it's quite possible, I'd
say there is about a one-third chance that we technically fall into recession in the next year, but it should be pretty shallow, and hopefully
the economy can get back to slow growth thereafter.
My guess is that you know, a year or two from now, this economy is actually going to look quite like it did in the middle of the last decade in 2016-
2017 -- slow growth, low inflation, low interest rates, and you know, a pretty good environment for investors.
ASHER: So for businesses, I mean, how do you plan that kind of environment? On the one hand, you know, I loved your analogy about
asymptomatic COVID because it is sort of like not just asymptomatic COVID, but it's like having COVID when you feel the best you've ever felt in your
life.
Just explain to us how businesses plan in that kind of an environment where there are some indicators of perhaps some kind of technical recession on
the horizon. But again, you know, a labor market that is really tight and really strong.
[15:20:16]
KELLY: Well, I think businesses have to -- you know, this is a time when you see good business people figuring out what to do here, because you've
got to keep an eye on margins here. You want to make sure you staff up to be able to compete, but don't treat pent up demand for your products or
your services as a sign of what revenues are going to be going forward.
So you're going to have to control your costs, and just build a business plan that will work in a slow-growing economy because we've had -- when we
had the pandemic, we had to bounce out of the pandemic, neither of those represent the economy going forward. So, you've got to have a plan that
works and also grow your economy for the long run.
ASHER: David Kelly, live for us there, thank you so much.
KELLY: Anytime.
ASHER: Inflation in Sweden slowed last month. Prices rose eight percent from last year, down from June's 8.5 percent that is why like many Central
Banks, the Swedish Riksbank has been aggressively raising rates to fight rising costs amid Russia's war in Ukraine.
Richard Quest spoke to Sweden's Finance Minister. He said the economic path ahead remains unclear.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MIKAEL DAMBERG, SWEDISH FINANCE MINISTER: We're going through tougher times now and we're very much uncertain of the situation in the future.
We see that the Swedish industry is still going strong. We see the second quarter coming out quite well when it comes to growth, but when we look
ahead, we think it will slow down. We will be affected by Europe, by the war, by the German economy.
Sweden is a small open economy, very dependent on trade. So what's happening in Europe will certainly affect Sweden.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ASHER: Mikael Damberg also told Richard that Sweden's welfare model is essential in difficult times despite the high cost. The model involves high
taxes for citizens. They in turn receive benefits such as universal health care and free education.
Richard Quest spoke to Andreas Bergh. He is a Professor of Economics at Lund University, and author of the book "Sweden and the Revival of the
Capitalist Welfare State." Richard asked him if people still support the Swedish model.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
ANDREAS BERGH, PROFESSOR OF ECONOMICS, LUND UNIVERSITY: Most absolutely. Actually, some long back for it, they believe it had its heydays, a long
time ago. And they would like to see it happen again.
RICHARD QUEST, CNN BUSINESS ANCHOR, QUEST MEANS BUSINESS: Is it inevitable that it can't exist? Bearing in mind in the past, in its heyday, Swedish
people couldn't just go work somewhere else. Now, they can go anywhere in the European Union.
BERGH: They can.
QUEST: So they want to go they go. And likewise, anybody who wants to come here for a better social welfare, you can do so.
BERGH: Yes.
QUEST: It seems like you've got --
BERGH: Well, had you asked me 10 or 15 years ago, I would have been very optimistic about the future. Sweden was in a good place after the financial
crisis. Things looked good. Prosperity was high, growth was high.
Now, this past decade or past 15 years have been an era of missed opportunities. We've basically been shooting ourselves in the foot
repeatedly. So, I'm not as optimistic anymore.
QUEST: Right. Not optimistic.
BERGH: No.
QUEST: But can the social model -- the Finance Minister told me that he could cut taxes, he could do all of these things, and he could still have
his social welfare model.
BERGH: That's true, but since 2014, we've had large inflows of refugee migrants to a very regulated Swedish labor market. That is a concern,
because migrants have unemployment rates that are twice as high or three times as high or even four times as high as native Swedes. That's a big
problem economically, and socially, of course.
QUEST: And ultimately, of course, that is going to help. I mean, that's sort of the -- I mean, people will say it is a racist accusation. But here,
people believe it's undermining the social fabric.
BERGH: Absolutely. It's nothing but racism. It is the fact that the welfare state, the type that Sweden has had for a long time requires high
labor force participation and low unemployment among everyone, otherwise, the system collapses.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ASHER: All right, Breaking News: The US Justice Department told a Court that President Donald Trump's legal team has agreed to the release of the
search warrant for his home in Mar-a-Lago.
Mr. Trump had previously said on social media that he would not oppose its release. Investigators are reportedly searching for classified documents
when they searched the premises.
Argentina is facing among the worst inflation in the world and policymakers are trying to catch up. Its Central Bank raised interest rates nine and a
half percent. That takes it to the baseline rate to 69.5 percent.
Like many countries, Argentina is seeing the highest inflation in decades. Prices rose at an annual rate of 71 percent in July, that's about eight
times the inflation rate in Europe or the United States.
[15:25:02]
Daniel Politi is a correspondent at the Associated Press, he joins us live now from Buenos Aires.
Daniel, thank you so much for being with us.
We are seeing the peso plummeting. You're seeing prices soaring to keep up. Obviously, inflation is at unsustainable levels in Argentina.
Argentina has obviously dealt with this sort of thing many, many times before in the past. What's unique about this particular time?
DANIEL POLITI, CORRESPONDENT, ASSOCIATED PRESS: Thank you for having me. And, as you said, the Argentines are no stranger to inflation. It is
something more than a decade, we've been having double digit inflation here and people have been figuring out how to cope and trying to come up with
strategies in how to cope.
But this time, it feels different, just because the rate is so high. As you said, 71 percent, economists largely expect the rate to reach 90 percent by
the end of the year. And some are even saying that a hundred percent is not an unlikely scenario.
So, the speeding up of inflation is just something that many Argentines haven't seen in their lifetimes.
ASHER: A lot of people from what -- I mean, obviously, you're on the ground there, but from what I understand, just sort of having read about
this, a lot of people are resorting to barter, for example, and also just a huge number of people who are relying on basically hoarding, as much of the
US currency as they possibly can, just walk us through that.
POLITI: Yes, you mentioned, there's two flip sides of the same coin. On one side, you have the poorest members of society that are having
incredible troubles making ends meet, getting to the end of the month. I've talked to a lot of people whose salary only gets them to the 10th or to the
15th. And so for the last final weeks of the month, they have to resort to strategies that we hadn't seen since the 2001 collapse when the economy
here collapsed spectacularly, which are these barter fairs where people go and trade clothes that they may have in their closets, for food, things
like that.
And then the flip side of that, there are people, maybe the more middle class people who have higher salary and they need to figure out what to do
with their money. It feels like the peso burns in their hands, they need to get rid of it as quickly as possible.
So yes, there's big capital controls on dollars. They can't buy as many dollars as they want. So they are just spending. There is a lot of spending
going on. It's sort of ironic, you think of an economy with 71 percent inflation, you think, crisis in the streets, but really, you go out in
Buenos Aires these days, and restaurants are packed, bars are packed, because any money that anybody has, they want to spend it as quickly as
possible before it loses value.
ASHER: Right. That's fascinating. I mean, you know, it's quite harder. It's been quite hard for Economy Ministers to figure out how exactly to
handle this issue, and as a result, you have this pattern in Argentina, where economy Ministers get hired and fired, if they're not able to deal
with the problem or if the problem gets worse, they get fired, just like that. I think a lot of or more than sort of almost two dozen Economy
Ministers have lasted less than two months.
This particular Economy Minister, the newest one, has basically said that he's going to stop printing pesos in order to fund the Argentine budget. He
is not going to do that anymore. How unprecedented is that?
POLITI: Well, I mean, it certainly is very impressive, especially for this government, because this government has always purported that printing
money did not cause inflation. So now there is this new Economy Minister, which is the third one in the space of a month, as you said, the Economy
Minister go through really quickly sometimes here. He is trying a more orthodox policy. They have to meet some IMF quotas, and he is saying, all
right, we're going to stop printing money.
That is really unprecedented. And the question really becomes whether he's really going to be able to do it because at the same time, as all of this
is happening, as you might imagine, there's a lot of demands from the poorest members of society for more welfare, so there's been question of
where's the money going to come from for these -- for the people for the poorest members of society who can't make ends meet as we were talking
about earlier?
ASHER: Right, Daniel Politi live for us there, thank you so much.
POLITI: Thank you.
ASHER: A drought is making the Rhine River impassable. Industries suffering because of it, next on QUEST MEANS BUSINESS.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[15:30:26]
ASHER: I'm Zain Asher. There's more QUEST MEANS BUSINESS in a moment. When drought in Europe is threatening waterways critical to the continent's
economy.
And inflation that may be slowing but don't expect a cheap hotel room anytime soon. Trivago CEO discusses how labor shortages is pushing
accommodation prices higher. Before that though, the headlines this hour.
Ukraine's nuclear operator says the Russian shelling near the Zaporizhia Nuclear Plant is -- which is the largest in Europe by the way, is posing a
serious safety risk. And the head of the U.N.'s nuclear watchdog, the IAEA says the situation has reached a great hour.
The family of actress Anne Heche says that she is brain dead after crashing her car into a Los Angeles house exactly one week ago. They say that she's
being kept on life support while doctors determine if she is a match for organ donation. In a statement, Heche's family said that they had lost a
bright light.
Celebrated novelist Salman Rushdie was stabbed in the neck at a speaking engagement in western New York State. He has been airlifted to the hospital
and his alleged attacker is in police custody. In 1989. Iran's late Ayatollah Khomeini called for Rushdie's death over his book, The Satanic
Verses.
Shimon Prokupecz has more on the story about Salman Rushdie being attacked. He joins us live now from New York. So, Shimon, back in the sort of early
90s, Salman Rushdie had sort of 24-hour police protection because the threat against him was so high especially after that fatwa was issued,
especially after the Ayatollah sort of came out and said that no, he wanted him to be killed.
Now in recent years, it sort of seemed as though the threat against him was somewhat dormant, though. What more can you tell us about what happened
today?
SHIMON PROKUPECZ, CNN CRIME AND JUSTICE CORRESPONDENT: Yes, certainly he has felt safer. He did live under protection. He had police protection for
a number of years after that fatwa was issued against him. And then this $3 million bounty was placed on his head essentially for his execution by the
Ayatollah, but in recent years, he sort of, you know, Salman Rushdie kind of felt like that thread perhaps may have been over.
[15:35:01]
He lived the more free life living here in New York City. The threat really never ended, you know, I know law enforcement officials here have always
been concerned over this threat. And it's something that they've been monitoring for quite some time. But certainly this morning's attack on him
certainly very concerning and very troubling for officials. We don't know exactly the details of who this individual is, what brought him to this
location.
But of course, that is something investigators are looking at. And what happened this morning was he was speaking at this event at this
amphitheater there in Western New York and talking about journalists, exiled journalists and exiled rioters. When this attack occurred, a man
rushed the stage and witnesses say stabbed Mr. Rushdie several times in the neck. He was then taken into custody, this man by a state police officer
who was there, providing some sort of security.
There really wasn't a lot of security at this location, people were able to come in. Witness say there was no metal detectors, there wasn't this kind
of feeling that this was a very much a security concern. So people were able to come in and out. This man were told was taken into custody by
police almost immediately. We don't have any information on him. And there you see on your pictures there of Mr. Rushdie being rushed by this
helicopter to a hospital.
We were under -- we understand he's been undergoing surgery. So we don't have much more information right now. The governor of New York State issued
a statement saying that he -- Mr. Rushdie was alive. But beyond that, she has not really released any information. And we also haven't done any
updates from authorities there.
ASHER: And Shimon, you may or may not know the answer to this. But, you know, clearly this is a wake-up call for Salman Rushdie and for all of us
about this -- that this threat may still be active. What will it mean in terms of, you know, him having more police protection going forward as he
attends lectures and attends various author events?
PROKUPECZ: Yes. I mean, it would mean that security for him is certainly going to be increased at events that he's going to attend. You know, he
lived kind of in exile for a number of years using pseudonyms. He was in hiding because he was really afraid for his life. And authorities were
certainly very concerned for his life. But, you know, what this shows is that these threats just don't go away.
And just despite the fact that maybe he felt safer, we don't really know. Something may have happened in the last several days that triggered
something. And so that's why this may have happened. I mean, this certainly doesn't seem random, right? This looks like someone knew that he was going
to be at this event. Knew that they could get inside this event and could easily -- really just easily attack him.
So, this is something that's going to be very concerning for authorities. Everyone from the local police here in New York City at the NYPD, where he
lives --
(CROSSTALK)
ASHER: All right. Shimon, Shimon. We have some breaking news before even covering it. All right. CNN has obtained the search warrant on former
President Donald Trump's Mar-a-Lago residents. Let's join my colleagues at CNN U.S. for more on this.
VICTOR BLACKWELL, CNN ANCHOR: -- the property receipt. Evan Perez, let me come out to you and what are people to make of, you know, the urgency for
this search warrant was based on the existence of classified documents there. But these three statutes aren't bound to -- there being a necessity
of being classified documents on site at Mar-a-Lago?
EVAN PEREZ, CNN SENIOR JUSTICE CORRESPONDENT: Well, I think -- Victor, I think what you're seeing is a bit of the lawyering that's going on behind
the scenes at the Justice Department. Because we know for a fact that Donald Trump and his legal team are going to argue, well, I declassified
this stuff. I'm president and when I say it, it's declassified. Of course, that's not exactly how it works at least from -- even the time when Trump
was president.
The Justice Department in other litigation, in other legal cases said just because the president tweets it, or because he says it doesn't make it so
that there's a process that he, you know, there needs to be an order that is issued by the White House Counsel's Office. There's a whole process that
goes through this. And so, even during the Trump presidency, you know, it didn't make itself.
So, that's one of the things that by pursuing this search warrant under these three laws that don't turn on classification, you know, you see where
the Justice Department is going with this.
BLACKWELL: All right. Let's go to Sara Murray now. These documents have been unsealed. Do you have them? What did they say?
SARA MURRAY, CNNN POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, we obtained them from a source I think we're still waiting for the judge to officially unseal them.
But, you know, we can see through the list of items that were seized. I mean, there are a number of points in this document where it points out
that there were miscellaneous secret documents, miscellaneous, top secret documents. Again, miscellaneous top secret documents, confidential
documents.
It also notes that they found an executive grant of clemency for Roger Stone Jr. And then as we talked about earlier, various classified top
secret documents on here.
[15:40:08]
So it -- there's about I think 33 thing -- 33 items in this list of things they took when they searched Mar-a-Lago. We also have the actual search
warrant here. And all of these documents are signed by Christina Bobb. And I think as you guys were just talking about, it lays out the various
statutes of the potential, you know, crimes that they believe could have occurred, the reasons that they were there to investigate.
BLACKWELL: Elie, the description of miscellaneous, top secret miscellaneous, classified, that is the degree of both specificity and
generality you expect, because they're not going to list what the top secret documents are, right? Because they're top secret.
ELIE HONIG, CNN SENIOR LEGAL ANALYST: So exactly understand what this document is. It's a receipt that the FBI hands to the person who's just
been searched, usually on the way out the door, or just a few hours after saying, here's a record of what we took, you are not going to have the time
to go through eight, 10, 12, however, many boxes of documents, several 100 documents in each box.
So usually, you will see this at a very high level of generality. Typically, I would just see this as -- in my normal cases, this is not a
normal case, as 20 boxes of documents. Here, they did go a step further and specify that some of these are classified and what levels of classification
but the substance is something that we've still not -- we're not going to get from these documents.
BACKWELL: Katelyn Polantz, if you're still with us, what's remarkable is we just heard from Sara that there are 33 items on this list. This is after
boxes were taken in January after a subpoena going into the meeting in June. And still there were items -- there were items that belong to the
federal government.
KATELYN POLANTZ, CNN SENIOR CRIME AND JUSTICE REPORTER: That's right. That's what this appears to be. I mean, it's clear that if you're looking
at these documents the way that the Justice Department drafted it, is that they are very aware that there could be presidential records that would
pertain to the National Defense in this collection. I mean, they describe - - they call Donald Trump, FPOTUS.
So that's former president of the United States in the attachments here when they're describing his spaces at Mar-a-Lago including his office. They
also are describing in some of these descriptions of what they're looking at, under each criminal law. They are specifying that there could be
government records and/or presidential records. And so, these are things that are being described as important to both the presidency, documents
that would belong to the general public, but also secret, classified. Top secret.
Really significant information that would be kept at an unsecured location at this time which is Mar-a-Lago.
BLACKWELL: Yes, Sara Murray, you're going through this list. And I now have a copy as well. Some of the descriptions are quite interesting, a leather
bound box of documents, of course, we've talked about the information about the president of France. But as you're going through, what do you see? What
stands out?
MURRAY: Oh, I mean, I think, you know, there is -- there's a lot here that unfortunately, does not provide a lot of detail. You know, you see box
labeled A30, A32, A35. You know, we would love to know even more about what was in those documents. I think the most striking thing of this list, to be
honest, is just how many of these items specifically say top secret, confidential secret. I mean, they were very clear also as Katelyn was
pointing out in this search warrant where they were going to search on the premises.
You know, they talked specifically about how they're going to go into the 45 office, the storage room, other rooms, or areas on the premises used or
available to be used by the former president or his staff in which boxes or documents could be stored. So they are pretty explicit and where they are
looking for these things. You know, I think we all wish that they were a little bit more explicit in exactly what they took with them when they
left.
And you know, we're already getting statements we should point out from the spokesperson for the former president trying to downplay what's happening
here. You know, they're saying the Biden administration is in damage control and they're downplaying things like, you know, saying the FBI came
in for a picture book and a handwritten note and declassified documents. That's the big argument that Trump people are making, trying to say that
the former president declassified these documents when we know that there was a process to go through.
Obviously, the FBI was, you know, very concerned about the status of these documents. And we can see in this list that there were documents that were
listed as classified documents, listed as top secret.
BLACKWELL: Joshua Skule still with us, former agent with the FBI. Are we to conclude because some of these documents give -- some of these itemized
descriptions give some details like element one, executive grant of clemency regarding Roger Jason Stone Jr.
[15:45:01]
But then we go to item five binder of photos, six binder photos or just box-labeled A1A. If there are no details describing what it is, is it
appropriate to conclude that that is classified information, if they had details that could bid are unclassified or declassified, that they would
have listed them here?
JOSHUA SKULE, FORMER FBI EXECUTIVE ASSISTANT DIRECTOR FOR INTELLIGENCE: I think it's both, Victor, to be honest with you. I think the box have --
could have other information in it or could be unclassified. To your point earlier, they're not going to list out the top secret SCI document. Some of
those titles are classified in and of themselves. So, not just the document, but even the title or the code word.
And so, I think when you're doing a search like this, sometimes you're taking in documents you're putting into a box, you're labeling it, and you
will give a more detailed account at a later date. Knowing that you did not go through and label every single document. It depends on the volume.
BLACKWELL: Evan Perez, you have certainly -- in your beat seen and cover these documents before in other cases. I don't want to lose the forest for
the trees here. I am holding a search warrant for the home of a former president of the United States.
PEREZ: Right, exactly.
BLACKWELL: And items that were taken as part of a search. When you see this document in whole and in specific what stands out?
PEREZ: Well, look, I think it's astonishing -- I think it's really important what you just -- what you said, which is to just pause and think,
again, what we're talking about here, we're talking about a search of the former president of the United States' home. We're talking about an
investigation according to these documents that has to do with potential violations of the Espionage Act, of obstruction, of justice of the
mutilation and removal of federal documents.
That's what we're talking about. And this is a process. This is something that has been in the works and in dispute for roughly about 18 months
where, you know, the National Archives has been asking for these, the Justice Department and the FBI have been asking for these documents. They
searched -- they served a subpoena, received some of these documents, and yet on Monday, when they went they took away apparently about 20 boxes, 11
different sets of documents of various levels of classification.
So over, Victor, over the period of months, we're talking about the former president was hanging on to documents that, you know, according to this --
the receipt that they got, you know, includes very sensitive information. I guess Secondly, I would point out, you know, trying to maybe counter
program to what the former president has been saying about how the FBI disrespected his -- for his home, you know, it really does describe here
where the FBI was allowed to go.
His office, storage rooms and other rooms that were part of the premises that were -- that were -- the, you know, the jurisdiction of the former
president. It specifically says you can't go everywhere in this property. I think that's very important because again, the portrayal that you've had
for the last few days is, you know, FBI agents run amok and it's clear that there was a lot of deference that was given because this man is the former
president of the United States.
Donald Trump may not think that there was any but you can tell from what they did, that there was a great deal of deference given to him because of
where -- of who he was.
BLACKWELL: Caroline Polisi, we've talked about these three statutes, the criminal statutes, also the Presidential Records Act, any presidential
records created during the term, I assume you too have a copy of this. What stands out to you?
CAROLINE POLISI, CRIMINAL DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Yes. This is just more confirmation that this goes far beyond a mere violation of the Presidential
Records Act which really is a toothless act in and of itself. It's -- it doesn't have an enforcement mechanism. These are heavy hitting criminal
statutes, espionage, obstruction of justice, as was noted. The maximum prison sentence for just one of these crimes is 20 years in prison.
So, this is a very big deal. And just more confirmation of what, you know, we knew all along, which is that, you know, Merrick Garland wouldn't have
taken this by all accounts extraordinary step if it weren't absolutely necessary for the protection, you know, of the country.
BLACKWELL: An update here. Sara Murray, obtain this from a source at the top or at the top of the hour. We now know that the judge has unsealed the
document and will be able to share more of it with you again. The judge has unsealed the warrant and the receipt for property after the search of the
former president's home. Ellie Hoenig you've got a new development here.
[15:50:09]
HONIG: A small point and a big point.
BLACKWELL: Yes.
HONIG: So here's the small point. If people are looking at this, and it's now available on the internet and wondering, why would the FBI be so
general? Why would we just see box labeled A35? Why wouldn't they give us more detail? Because this is an on-the-spot document. It's the receipt that
the FBI hands over to the person who's just been searched. And we have confirmation of that, because we see that it was signed, the way you would
sign an invoice by Christina Bobb, the lawyer for Donald Trump. 6:19 p.m. on August 8th.
The day of the search. That's before we even knew about the search. So that's the nature of these documents. Nobody should conclude the FBI or DOJ
was trying to hide something. These are on the spot receipts,
BLACKWELL: That's an important point. Because if you were there and you were just kind of writing down and I've been in places, I remember I was
in, gosh, the San Bernardino shooters home and they took some item and -- items and left the receipt on the table. And it was very handwritten
general of what was there. This is what is produced on site before they pack up and go.
HONIG: Exactly. When you're talking about documents you can't possibly delineate all the documents. If you see these tangible items in a drug
case, guns you say how many kilos, how many guns, that's easy. But in a -- in a document case like this, really the best you can do is box of
documents. So, nobody's trying to hide the ball here. The bigger picture point to what you and Evan were saying not only is this a search warrant of
the former president of the United States, the crimes that are -- not even quite alleged, that's not even really the way to put it.
But the crimes that Justice Department prosecutors went to a judge and made a showing of probable cause here, that's significant, that's not what you
need to charge. But that's significant, espionage, destruction of documents and obstruction of justice. I mean, if you do step back, that is a
remarkable moment.
BLACKWELL: Is -- Ambassador Norm Eisen with us as well. Ethics czar in the Obama administration. Is the case that they have to prove as simple as
these documents were classified. They were at Mar-a-Lago. There is the violation. How far or how difficult is it to prove that the former
president is guilty of these statutes?
NORM EISEN, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: Well, three points, Victor. Technically, each of these three crimes as to which probable cause has been found by a
court has a set of elements. And technically, yes, it's as simple as that. But it's never really as simple as that when you're going against a former
president. They're going to have to show serious offenses. And that's why the volume of what we have here, these approximately 20 boxes, these 11
sets, the top secret SCI, our most -- our nation's most sensitive information, that is the most dangerous for our national security and the
pattern that we've heard about of the Justice Department trying and trying to get them even subpoenaing them, they're held back.
That's why all of that is so important to build a powerful case. And one other point on that 1519 -- potential 1519 obstruction charge, that is for
the destruction of documents, potentially. So it may not just be the case that we have, we know there's been reporting about a potential informant.
It's may not just be a case about what they got, which is bad enough, a potential nice strike against the heart of our national security.
But it may be about what has been destroyed and others have been prosecuted for that, including the former national security adviser in the Clinton
administration, Sandy Berger. So this pattern of charges, we laid out an in-depth analysis this week at just security of what the crimes as to which
probable cause only have been found important to remember what they might be very important details that are emerging as we speak.
BLACKWELL: Let's go back now to Sara Murray. Item one, as I mentioned before, this executive grant of clemency for Roger Stone, understand Roger
Stone now has something he wants to share.
MURRAY: Yes. First item listed there. A spokesperson for Roger Stone is saying this. Mr. Stone has no knowledge as to the facts surrounding his
clemency documents, appearing on the inventory of items seized from former President Trump's home at Mar-a-Lago. And, you know, we should remind
people that Roger Stone was convicted of lying to Congress some years ago, Donald Trump granted him clemency when he was leaving the White House.
So we don't know if that's what this is, that past grant of clemency if this is, you know, another new document that perhaps never came to light.
We just don't know exactly what this line item is referring to. But obviously Roger Stone through his spokesperson is saying, hey, don't look
at me. I don't know what this is about either.
BLACKWELL: Caroline Polisi, we just heard from Ambassador Eisen, this 1519 speaks to the potential destruction of documents. If that is what is
alleged, would we find that in the affidavit and necessarily not here if that's specifically why that's relevant?
[15:55:11]
POLISI: Definitely not going to find it in what is going to be unsealed today. Potentially, you might have hints about it in the affidavit, which
again, could be a very lengthy document, which we will not see unless there is an indictment, at some point in the future, laying out all of the
investigative steps that the DOJ and FBI took prior to submitting the warrant for sign off by a magistrate in order to get to the probable cause
standard in order to search Mar-a-Lago.
Now, obviously, if we're talking about destruction of documents, one needs to have known that those documents existed at some point in time. So one
would have to have information regarding the existence of those documents. I would just note in general, you know, when you're talking about the
criminal law, criminal statutes, there is a knowledge requirement. And you know, Donald Trump has been very adept at saying I didn't know, I didn't
know or, you know, I was unaware or burying his head in the sand as it were.
This type of information is not the type of information that just winds up at a beach club in Florida from Washington, D.C. So it's going to be very
difficult for him to make -- to deny the knowledge element of all of these potential charges.
BLACKWELL: Josh Skule, I think that's an important point that to allege that something had been destroyed, one has to know that it existed. Is it
clear that or should -- I should ask the question this way. Should authorities know the full universe of documents that exist so they know
what is missing? Essentially, these have been at a beach club for a year and a half, we've asked the question about why they didn't know that they
were missing or where they were up to this point. But if documents had been destroyed, do they know specifically which ones those likely are?
SKULE: I would say, Victor, they could know which ones they are, right? If they've had other reporting or viewed them at another time as was reported.
I think in May, the end, they're no longer as part of the records that were taken during this search, they could conclude that they were destroyed,
they could conclude that they were moved to another location. We don't know. And I think that's important.
What triggered the search warrant in the time leading up to from the meeting in May to now, what was the urgency associated with it? Also, to
the -- to the former president's point that or that he declassified many of this. As many of your guests have said, the president is the ultimate
classification authority and he can decide to declassify. It's really whether he should. He puts -- anyone can put our secrets at great risk,
sources and methods at grave risk.
BLACKWELL: Headline here, Eli, the Espionage Act.
HONIG: Yes.
BLACKWELL: I mean, that that has been -- that is the top of the list here of the statutes relevant.
HONIG: Yes. Let's run through exactly what that means. Because espionage, obviously a big word, a loaded word, all sorts of connotations,
denotations. But here's legally, what would have to be proved. And again, remember, this is something that prosecutors establish probable cause
without being contested by Donald Trump or anybody else, to the satisfaction of a federal judge.
It basically means to destroy or remove or hide or conceal or any of those synonyms, any information, that is defense information with the intent or
that reason to believe that the removal of that information will be harmful to U.S. national security interests. So, that's what it means. It is a
very, very big deal. And that means that DOJ was able to establish this at least to the satisfaction of a judge by probable cause.
BLACKWELL: Yes. And as we move forward, the next steps here, you expect that we're not going to hear a whole lot from DOJ now after this.
HONIG: Yes.
BLACKWELL: Until they make a decision. This was rare enough, but for there to be another step publicly would be highly unlikely.
HONIG: Yes. Legally and publicly, putting aside the politics here, the next time anything to do with this search would surface is if and we have no
idea whether this will happen. But if somebody is charged, and what happen -- what happens then is DOJ will produce to whoever that person may be.
Say, hey, we did a search warrant at Mar-a-Lago on August 8th. Here's the evidence we got.
That defendant will then have an opportunity to challenge it, surely will. They'll make a motion fairly standard, motion with the judge saying they
violated my rights, the search went too far, the search was not justified, et cetera. And then the judge in that case will decide yes or no. And if
the answer is it was fine, then DOJ can use the evidence and if the answer is they violated some right, then they cannot use the evidence.
But unless and until there's a charge putting aside further theatrics and politics, we probably won't hear much on the legal record about this search
warrant work for quite a while.
BLACKWELL: On the legal side, but politically --
HONIG: Politically, it's all in play.
(CROSSTALK)
BLACKWELL: Politically, we're going to hear all of it. Listen, we have had a lot of new information come in today.
[16:00:02]
END
