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Quest Means Business

FBI Director Says TikTok Screams National Security Concerns; Interview With Rep. Rick Larsen (D-WA); Massive Rallies Against Foreign Agents Law In Georgia; Nord Stream Pipeline Attack; International Women's Day; Closing Gender Gap Could Boost Global Economy By $7 Trillion; Related Companies Hopes To Build World's Best Gaming Destination; Profitable Moment. Aired 3-4p ET

Aired March 08, 2023 - 15:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[15:00:27]

RICHARD QUEST, CNN INTERNATIONAL HOST, "QUEST MEANS BUSINESS": There is an hour to go of trading on Wall Street, the last hour, three o'clock in

New York, but let's spend the hour together. This is the market, have a look and make your own judgment. We're off a bit but not a lot, but we were

positive once or twice in the morning and that is clearly not the mood of the day. It gives you an idea of where we are, and the markets and the

events.

The White House is backing legislation that will give it the power to ban TikTok.

We get more clues in the mystery over who sabotaged the Nord Stream pipeline.

And the related CEO on the company's hopes to build a casino resort fit for New York.

We are live in the Big Apple. It's Wednesday. It is March the 8th. I'm Richard Quest and here, of course, I mean business.

Good evening.

The head of the FBI says TikTok screams of National Security concerns. His warning comes as the White House is backing a bill that would let it ban

the Chinese-owned app here in the United States. The legislation covers foreign-based technologies that pose a security risk.

TikTok says millions of Americans use it to spread US values around the world. Some lawmakers here fear China could use TikTok against the US.

Senator Marco Rubio raised that concern with the FBI Director, Christopher Wray.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. MARCO RUBIO (R-FL): Could they use TikTok to control data on millions of users?

CHRISTOPHER WRAY, FBI DIRECTOR: Yes.

RUBIO: Could they use it to control the software on millions of devices given the opportunity to do so?

WRAY: Yes.

RUBIO: Could they use it to drive narratives like to divide Americans against each other? For example, let's say China wants to invade Taiwan, to

make sure that Americans are seeing videos arguing why Taiwan belongs to China, why the US should not intervene?

WRAY: Yes.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

QUEST: Jeremy Diamond is with me from the White House.

Jeremy, we have -- I have spent a lot of time trying to work out why would the Chinese want to care over what I've got in my phone, and pictures of

videos of birthday parties and the like. But that last point Marco Rubio makes goes to the heart of it, doesn't it? It's the ability to influence

the agenda. And I guess that's what the White House is concerned about.

JEREMY DIAMOND, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Yes. I think the biggest concern here at the White House is the fact that this is a threat that is

so multifaceted, as you just heard, as Senator Rubio goes down the line of everything from the Chinese government being able to potentially access

data on Americans phones through this social media app, being able to also influence through the use of propaganda and the algorithms that the app

utilizes basically, overarching, all of that is the concern that this TikTok app is owned by a Chinese company and that in China, there is no

real division between the public and the private sector in terms of obtaining information from companies that operate inside of China.

But I think what's interesting here, Richard, is what we're really seeing at the White House is a growing shift and a lot of momentum, not only here

at the White House, but in Washington generally, towards taking more aggressive action as it relates to TikTok around all of this is the fact

that there are rising tensions with China and this administration is coming under increasing pressure to act as it relates to this popular social media

app.

You know, there's been these ongoing negotiations between TikTok and CFIUS, which is the Committee on Foreign investment in the United States to try

and find some kind of accommodation to this broader problem of Chinese ownership of this app, but those talks have yet to yield a deal more than

two years later.

And so what I'm told is that the White House in recent weeks, began working with bipartisan lawmakers to craft this very piece of legislation, which

they then swiftly endorsed.

The question now is do they use this as leverage right in those CFIUS talks with TikTok or do they choose to act unilaterally with these new powers

that they could get?

QUEST: Yes, but if they get the powers, will they use them?

DIAMOND: Yes, I think it's still an open question. And one of the reasons why the White House wanted to back this specific piece of legislation, and

not the one being put forward by Republican Senator Marco Rubio is that this piece of legislation gives them powers, but it gives the

administration the discretion to choose when and how to use them.

The bill being put forward by Senator Rubio, for example, would have effectively required the US to go ahead and ban TikTok from being used in

the United States, so they like having that latitude and that suggests that there's a variety of different paths that may lay ahead of us.

[15:05:10]

QUEST: Jeremy, thank you, at the White House.

Some Democrats have urged their colleagues not to tie all policy related to China into one bundle as tensions are rising over China's spy balloon

debacle last month, Representative Rick Larsen has argued for nuance when it comes to dealing with the TikTok issue.

Now, he is the co-chair of the bipartisan US China Working Group and the Congressman is with me now.

Sir, you hail from one of the most beautiful parts of the United States, up in the top left, as we might put it, and really at the top left over the

border from Canada, but it is absolutely glorious.

And if we look at this TikTok debate, I guess, how do you restrict the security threat without throwing the baby out with the bathwater?

REP. RICK LARSEN (D-WA): Well, I do think that the relationship between US and China needs to have some nuance to it, and the administration is

right to ask for some flexibility with this legislation, because ultimately, dealing with TikTok is like dealing with China, it is a

diplomatic relationship where you need the levers to be able to turn on and to turn off in order to shape behavior, whatever behavior that we might

want to try to shape, as well as to use that leverage in order to get a stronger position and stronger advantage for the US.

So I think, honestly, I think Congress historically has taken a harder line on China. I think that's a good thing. But I do think still, the

relationship needs some nuance, because two largest economies in the world, two largest emitters in the world, two very large countries investing in

technology, we're both going to be around a while, and there have to be avenues for diplomacy and discussion, while we're in a strategic

competition with China.

QUEST: See, that's the nub of it, Congressman, the strategic competition with China, and we see it play out, first of all, of course, with Taiwan,

there may be deliberate military ambiguity there, but it's hotting up for the United States as well. And you see it in Ukraine with the possibility

of China offering lethal support to Russia.

Wherever we look on this issue, the US is inexorably moving towards, as you saw the other day, the conflict issues.

LARSEN: I know what the Foreign Minister -- the new Chinese Foreign Minister said about conflict with the United States, US conflict with China

as well, but I think diplomacy is, you know, the art of trying to avoid conflict, trying to manage the relationship, and from our side of things, I

think the US needs to show like in Ukraine, what the costs of supporting Russia with military or lethal aid would be.

It would be supporting a country that does not respect sovereignty, that's counter to Chinese positions. It is counter to the Chinese position of an

independent foreign policy. We need to show them that, so we need to show - - I think, we have the opportunities to show the Chinese government what the costs of actions are, and that is part of why the administration needs

nuance -- needs some ability to show nuance, while also being firm about what our values and positions are in the US.

QUEST: The fascinating part, of course, is nuances. The last thing, say for example, President Trump -- former President Trump used in his

relationship with China, and there is a genuine debate over whether -- I mean, you're on the nuanced side, Congressman, but there's a genuine debate

that says the only thing the Chinese will respect is a firm, red line.

LARSEN: The US is very firm on a lot of issues with regards to China, it is a matter of picking and choosing which ones you're going to be firm on.

We are very firm on Human Rights violations in China. We are taking action in Congress to support the previous President and this President. We are

very firm on this TikTok issue, we are actually very firm on technology and the dangers that Chinese-based technology poses to the users of that

technology, especially as the Senator mentioned in their testimony and his questions about the data -- the data vacuuming that takes place, and that

data then becoming the property not of a company in China, but the Chinese government and the People's Liberation Army.

That is a concerned and we need to be very strong and firm and united here in the United States on those issues, while understanding that the two very

large countries living in the world at the same time need to have avenues in order to rub off some very, very rough edges, sand off some very rough

edges in the relationship.

[15:10:23]

QUEST: Final question, I can't believe I mean, we're at that point, we are still a long way from the date of election of 2024, but let's face it,

we are well into -- the horse race is on, sir.

So would you support the President if he does decide as it seems likely that he is going to go for a second term? Or is he too old?

LARSEN: I suppose if the President is running for reelection, I'll be supporting President Biden. I think the record shows when you look at the

work we did, we passed a bipartisan infrastructure law, a once in a generation opportunity to invest in the competitive advantage of the United

States, the CHIPS and Science Act, which is bringing manufacturing jobs back to US and again, investing in the competitive advantage of the United

States; $35.00 insulin for seniors on Medicare, and giving Medicare the ability to negotiate prescription drug prices.

The President has a very strong record upon which to run, and now we need to finish the job by implementing the bipartisan infrastructure law and

that's for the American people, what we have done as Democrats, I think we've got a good case to make running in '24, not just the President, but

all Democrats have a good case to make running in '24

QUEST: Congressman, very grateful for your time today. Next time, let's agree to meet in Washington State, which is a far more pleasant place for

us both to be talking.

LARSEN: I am all in, Richard. I've got plenty of places that we can meet.

QUEST: Looking forward to it, sir. Thank you.

As we continue tonight on QUEST MEANS BUSINESS, a second night of protests underway in Georgia's capital, Tbilisi. Demonstrators are worried a

proposed law will draw it closer to Russia. That's in a moment.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

QUEST: Tens of thousands of people are rallying in Georgia's capital, Tbilisi. This is the scene at the moment. Live pictures coming to us you

can see on both sides from different networks. The people out on the streets. And just bearing in mind, the time, it is quarter past midnight

there at the moment and there are heavy -- a very heavy police presence.

[15:15:02]

QUEST: It is the second day of protests against a new proposed law that would require foreign-funded organizations to register as foreign agents

and Georgians, many of them fear that this new law would push their country closer to Russia.

Much like Ukraine, Georgia has a long troubled history with Moscow including an invasion 15 years ago by Russian forces.

CNN's Matthew Chance on the turmoil taking place tonight in Tbilisi.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

MATTHEW CHANCE, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice over): Georgia, another former Soviet State, now plunging it seems into anarchy.

Recent days witnessing these pitched battles in the capital, Tbilisi, between riot police using teargas and water cannon, and pro-Western

demonstrators, some clinging desperately to European flags.

With war raging in nearby Ukraine, a Russian-style foreign agent law being debated here is unleashing this anti-Moscow outrage.

The Russian version has been used to crack down on independent aid agencies and media in the country.

BORIS GOGOLAVA, GEORGIAN PROTESTER: The law is, Russian as we all know, it has been implemented in Belarus and we don't want to be part of ex-

Soviet Union. We want to be part of European Union we want to be pro-West.

CHANCE (voice over): But that's a dangerous aspiration in a region where Russia seems hell bent on tightening its grip. It is Ukraine's Western

leanings, behind the current bloodshed there, and its neighbors like Georgia, are on a knife's edge.

And it's not just in the streets where anger is pouring out.

This was the Georgian Parliament on the day the controversial foreign agent bill was debated. Lawmakers actually slapping each other amid scuffles

forcing the session to end.

GIVI MIKANADZE, GEORGIAN DREAM-DEMOCRATIC GEORGIA MP (through translator): Georgian society absolutely deserves to know which organizations are being

financed from which source and how that money is being spent. We are talking about accountability and transparency.

CHANCE (voice over): But Georgia has bitter experience of Moscow's meddling.

CHANCE (on camera): Well, there's been a lot of speculation about where the Russian troops are. Well, here they are, well inside Georgian

territory.

CHANCE (voice over): Losing territory in a brief conflict with Russia back in 2008 now seen as a precursor of Russia's Ukrainian war.

CHANCE (on camera): The big question is, how far will they go?

CHANCE (voice over): It's a similar concern plaguing many Georgians now, that their tiny former Soviet state is still very much a battleground

between Russia and the West.

Matthew Chance, CNN, London.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

QUEST: Now the last hour, Georgia's President was speaking to Isa Soares. Georgia's President said she will take action against the proposed law.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SALOME ZOURABICHVILI, GEORGIA PRESIDENT: . time in Georgia as recent history or longer history that the question, the choice has been there. The

answer of the Georgian population, and too many times it has been on the streets has been, we want Europe, it's Europe that is our future and it is

also our values and that's what's happening again.

Clearly the law, the draft law that has been presented, which I've announced that I would veto is a law that goes against all the principles

that the European Union stands for, and that happens at a time when we are waiting for the decision on the candidate status that has been refused to

Georgia a few months ago when it was given to Ukraine and Moldova.

So the Georgian population knows that we are at a very important juncture for its future. They know that now, the future of their children is being

determined by what we are going to do in the coming weeks and months and they are saying very clearly that what they want is to be in Europe.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

QUEST: With me is Maros Sefcovic, the EU Commissioner in charge of Interinstitutional Relations, joining me tonight from Brussels.

You hear the president of Georgia saying what they want it to be in Europe. As the situation deteriorates in Tbilisi and clearly, the meddling of

Russia increases, the call will be for the EU to at least raise candidate status or give them something.

[15:20:10]

MAROS SEFCOVIC, EU COMMISSIONER FOR INTERINSTITUTIONAL RELATIONS: You're absolutely right, Richard that we had very intense discussion among

ourselves, among the member states, but also we discussed at great length what would be the best motivation for Ukraine, for Moldova, and for

Georgia, because clearly, they have very strong pro-European determination. They want to become members of the European Union.

Indeed, as the Georgian President just stated, Ukraine and Moldova got candidate status. And for Georgia, there have been certain of the

conditions attached, which were very much linked to the democratic credentials for democratic reforms, and I think that clearly, the issues

like you just described in your report would have to be addressed in accordance with the European values for Georgia to get to that category as

Ukraine and Moldova.

QUEST: Do you foresee you having to revisit their candidate status sooner than you'd expected?

SEFCOVIC: What we are working very hard on right now, and just this morning, I had a very good phone call with the Ukrainian Prime Minister,

Denys Shmyhal about the way how the Ukraine is preparing for eventual opening of the accession talks with Ukraine.

Just few weeks ago, we've been -- the whole College of Commissioners in Kyiv, and for me, it was extremely impressive for that country, which is

waging this brutal war defending their territorial sovereignty and their people against the Russian aggressor, that they can devote so much time and

energy to prepare for the negotiations with the European Union, how they have been diligently telling us what kind of progress they achieved in all

these areas.

So we promised our Ukrainian friends and partners that we will present so- called oral report in the first half of this year. And then, of course, as a part of our so called enlargement package where we are kind of addressing

all candidate countries for the European Union, we will prepare a very, very detailed statement how Ukraine is progressing in the autumn of this

year.

And I think that all of us, we understand very well that for Ukrainian people, for Moldova, but also, as we heard in the report, for Georgian

people, the perspective to be the Member of the European Union is very key, it is motivational, it is very symbolic, and therefore we want to work with

them as closely as possible to achieve that goal.

QUEST: Let's turn to the energy situation. I think, you know, you can probably breathe a sigh of relief. Full tanks and stocks of fuel and we're

into March, so you know, you got through it. Well, Europe got through it.

So what happens now? Because you've got another six to eight months before the next winter. Now, obviously, I will say it before you do, one hopes

there is peace in some shape or form, but that doesn't mean -- but if not, the energy transition has to continue, how?

SEFCOVIC: You're absolutely right, Richard and we definitely do not want to repeat the energy situation of the last year, and therefore by the end

of 2022, the European heads of states in governments decide that we should go for the common purchase of gas, and this is also the project I was asked

by our President, Ursula von der Leyen to lead on, to work on.

And currently, I can tell you that we are following very tight time schedule, but we will be ready to go live with our common purchase platform

in a couple of weeks and we want to hit the global gas suppliers market in early May.

So for the first time in the history of the European Union, we will be purchasing gas together, and I believe that this would increase not only

security of supply for the European Union, but of course, what is very important for us, it will also push the energy prices down and gas prices

down because we cannot sustain the situation that our economy is performing below its potential because of the high energy prices.

QUEST: So the other aspect of course, that's much on the agenda is the United States Inflation Reduction Act, the IRA and Europe's response, a

European equivalent, but I question whether the Commission has the funds or abilities to come up with a cohesive plan across the union. Isn't this

something more -- I mean, the power for this is with the nations not with the Commission.

SEFCOVIC: I would beg to differ, Richard, because I started the European Battery Alliance five years ago and since that moment, we actually

generated 180 billion euros of the private investment.

[15:25:05]

SEFCOVIC: We have more than 160 industrial projects across the whole value chain of the battery sector, and we are currently building more than

30 giga factories in Europe.

So I'm not surprised, those of our American friends wanted to catch up and wanted to jump on that train. What we just need in this regard is that

competition will be fair.

And when I was in the US couple of weeks ago, my message there was let's work together, let's build technological bridges. Because I think we need

to win this, I would say clean tech -- I would say clean tech war against the climate change together. And if it comes to the conditions, that we are

preparing for the next week, very important packages where we want to use different instruments to make sure that the European industry will strive

in Europe, will prosper. And that of course, all that investments which we made in the battery sector will really bring us that smart mobility that we

need for climate transition in Europe.

QUEST: But what you've done for batteries, do you need to do it in a wider sense for digitalization? For batteries? And please, you know, I'm

not sort of asking you to tell me all the different plans that the Commission has got, but the core of this is the US is basically saying to

companies, you would better open up here. We've got the best environment, we've got the best subsidies, and if you don't, you'll pay the price

elsewhere.

I know this because I was in Korea last week, and I was hearing Korean companies saying, well, where do we open up? It has to be in the US,

because that's what the US is pretty much saying.

SEFCOVIC: We are absolutely sure that if it comes to electric mobility, that we definitely will be number one market in the world. I mean, if you

look at the proportion of the electric vehicles purchased last year, and we've been in the middle of an energy crisis, it's pretty obvious.

And I think as I said, we had quite a head start, but we are ready to fight for our industry, we are ready to provide for our industry. So we are

preparing that set of instruments, which would make sure that European industry will stay in Europe, will prosper in Europe and we are ready of

course, to cooperate very closely with The US.

So we are for example focusing on what we can do for the faster permitting. We are looking at how to use our different EU funds to make sure that we

would promote not only the batteries, but all clean tech industries.

And of course, we are ready to work also with our American partners and friends on critical raw materials because these are investment heavy

projects. And especially, if we need to get the critical raw materials from somewhere else in Europe or US, we would need to join forces because I

mean, it requires big investment, it requires a diplomatic muscle, and therefore I think that in that case, we have to work together.

So I would say, these are, I would say the few instruments I would just refer to, but we are preparing for the packages of measures, which we will

present in coming weeks.

QUEST: We look forward to talking to you again, sir. I'm grateful for your time tonight on QUEST MEANS BUSINESS. Thank you. Good to see you.

Western officials are responding to claims that pro Ukraine groups attacked an energy pipeline last year. It may have been a false flag operation. Now,

this is heavy stuff. We'll get to it after the break.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[15:30:00]

(MUSIC PLAYING)

QUEST: I'm Richard Quest. Together, we have a lot more QUEST MEANS BUSINESS. I'll tell you about the head of the IMF and the ECB and the WHO,

all of whom are discussing the fight for equality on International Women's Day.

The chief executive of Related Realty tells me how he's hoping to capitalize on New York's gambling law that had been restricted. Loosened

up, building a mega casino in midtown Manhattan.

We'll only get to that after the news, because this is CNN.

(MUSIC PLAYING)

QUEST (voice-over): The U.N. Special Envoy for Middle East Peace says he is alarmed by what is unfolding during an Israeli raid in the West Bank on

Tuesday. Six Palestinians were killed, including a suspect in the deadly attack on two Israelis.

An IDF official says Israeli forces used shoulder-fired missiles in Jenin after they came under fire.

Two of the four Americans kidnapped in Mexico last week have now returned to the United States and are being treated in hospital. The remains of the

other two are to be brought back to the U.S. soon. Mexican authorities say one person has been detained in connection with the abduction.

More text messages and emails from FOX News executives have been made public, part of a defamation lawsuit that Dominion Voting Systems has

brought against the network.

In one, email Rupert Murdaugh, the chairman, said two hosts, Sean Hannity and Laura Ingraham, maybe went too far in their coverage of voter fraud

claims.

(MUSIC PLAYING)

QUEST: Who did blow up the Nord Stream pipeline?

Western officials are downplaying allegations that it was Ukraine involved. Media reports said some intelligence suggested pro Kyiv groups could have

been behind the attack. The German defense minister says it could have also been a false flag operation. CNN's Salma Abdelaziz sifts through the

accusations.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

SALMA ABDELAZIZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT: New reporting is raising more questions than answers about a mystery that has really confounded

investigators on both sides of the Atlantic for months now.

That is, who is behind, who is responsible for the attack on the Nord Stream pipelines?

If you remember, the Nord Stream pipelines were attacked, believed intentionally, with explosives in September of last year. Those powerful

explosions in the Baltic Sea ripping through those pipelines, rendering them inoperable.

Now in September of last year, when this took place, Nord Stream 1, a crucial pipeline that brings natural gas from Russia into Germany, it was

not in use. It was under maintenance, according to Moscow.

The second Nord Stream pipeline was still under construction. Since that incident took place, German, Danish and Swedish investigators have all

independently been trying to get to the bottom of who was behind the attack on the Nord Stream pipelines.

Now "The New York Times" report perhaps muddying the waters even more. In this report, again, this is their journalism, their sourcing.

[15:35:00]

ABDELAZIZ: They say that U.S. officials now reviewing intelligence believe a pro Ukrainian group not connected to the Kyiv government could have been

behind the attacks.

CNN has reached out to U.S. officials for comment. They say that this is not the predominant view of the intelligence community and that they

continue to try to find out answers, who is behind this attack.

Separately, that German investigation did have an update as well. The German prosecutor's office says that it's been able to zero in on a boat

that could potentially have carried the explosives. It was a German boat and the people on board were using falsified documents, apparently.

That German investigation continues. But for, now all parties warning caution. Ukraine brushing off the allegations in "The New York Times"

report, saying they have no basis.

Russia saying that this is an organized misinformation campaign. NATO warning to wait until these investigations are complete and the mystery

very much still not solved -- Salma Abdelaziz, CNN, London.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

QUEST: We have more. Tonight, it's not only women who will benefit from closing the wage gap, we'll tell you on the program. The entire global

economy will benefit. You're going to hear from Moody's in a moment.

(MUSIC PLAYING)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(MUSIC PLAYING)

QUEST: It's International Women's Day. Equal pay and equal opportunity for women isn't only right, it's a sound economic decision, according to the

head of the IMF, Kristalina Georgieva. On the stage, she spoke about the need for more female leaders as indeed the heads of the WTO and the

European Central Bank.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

KRISTALINA GEORGIEVA, MANAGING DIRECTOR, IMF: Having more women in positions of authority brings more diversity in decision-making. And the

result is, we make better decisions.

I still recognize that we have a long way to go, Poppy. Today, only 5 percent of CEOs of big companies are women. And we want to see more of this

coming in the years ahead. Gender equality is good economics.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

NGOZI OKONJO-IWEALA, DIRECTOR-GENERAL, WORLD TRADE ORGANIZATION: If we can get more women owned enterprises participating in global or even regional

trade, we can double or triple their incomes.

[15:40:00]

OKONJO-IWEALA: That means the household welfare is much improved. Children, more children can go to school. And the community is improved and

the nation is improved. So that's the kind of opportunity we're looking at, doubling or tripling the incomes of women who are involved.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CHRISTINE LAGARDE, PRESIDENT, EUROPEAN CENTRAL BANK: I think, women particularly since the COVID hit, have been multitasking with limited

assistance. They've been overworked and underpaid.

They've been pretty strong entrepreneurial but very poorly financed. So you can see that there is a series of gaps that need to be addressed and

redressed.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

QUEST: One of the most worrying parts of the inequality that you heard Christine Lagarde talk about is the progress being made on closing the wage

gap.

The current rate, Moody's says, it takes 132 years until women worldwide will earn as much as men. And closing it could provide $7 trillion boost

to the global economy. One of the people behind the report is Dawn Holland, director of economic research at Moody's Analytics. She is with me this

evening from London.

Thank you for being with us in your late evening. Really, you know, let's break this into two areas, if we may because you've got the developed

world, if you will, the large corporate structures. And then you've got the developing world, which has a completely same problem but different set of

factors.

If we just look at the developed world, large companies, why are we still talking about this?

DAWN HOLLAND, MOODY'S ANALYTICS: That's a very good question. I guess it's because there is no sort of silver bullet that magically does away with

gender imbalances.

What we've been looking at is gender gaps in labor force participation and, in particular, the share of women in middle and senior level management

positions, which remain really very wide across the world, across developed and developing countries alike.

And over the last decade, we've really not seen a very significant -- from one country to another, we may have seen progress but, at the sort of broad

global level, progress has been very slow.

QUEST: Right.

So what do you need to get progress?

For as long as I can remember, we've talked on this. And there has been, as you say, incremental improvement. Every now and then, there will be some

totemic case where everybody will grab onto.

But what is it that needs fundamentally to happen?

Since there are laws on the books in many cases, there is a cultural and the societal shift, what is next?

HOLLAND: So policy can help. One of the factors that is consistently pointed to as holding women back from progressing more rapidly in the

workforce is that they tend to, societally, bear a heavier share of family responsibilities.

And there are policies that can help to redress the way that impacts their involvement with the labor market.

You look at countries where childcare costs are low, where both men and women have access to parental leave on an equal basis, where there's

greater flexibility in the workforce, those countries, these have all shown to narrow the gender gaps that we see in the labor market.

QUEST: So let's assume we put all of those things in place.

Do you still believe that there is, for want of a crude phrase, just rampant sexism, in a sense in a male dominated environment that basically

plays into this?

When decisions are made, middle and senior management, board decisions, that the old boys' club still holds some sway?

HOLLAND: Well, I wouldn't like to put it in those terms exactly. But it is definitely -- studies that have looked at this have found that, in general,

women are less likely to ask for promotion. And they are often held to a higher standard than men, which has made it more difficult for them to

advance in the workforce.

And, if you look at, for example, the qualifications of men versus women across almost all developed economies.

[15:45:00]

HOLLAND: And in a large number of emerging economies as well, we find that actually there are more women holding higher level degrees than there are

men.

So they're making this upfront, larger investment in their skills and qualifications and education at an early age but are still landing in lower

level and lower productivity and lower wage jobs relative to their male counterparts with the same educational background.

QUEST: Would it help, for example, here in New York where I am, the law is now, you have to show the range of salaries for a job now. And people, of

course, are much more open about discussing all these -- there are websites where people can find out what salaries are.

But I suppose it still relies on the candidate saying, oy, I believe I am being underpaid for that job.

HOLLAND: Well, I think that is a very good point. And in fact, in sectors where there is greater transparency in pay, for example, in some

international organizations, et cetera, you do see that there has been -- there's less of a sort of wage gap for people performing the same level of

work that you see in the private sector, where there's a sort of complete lack of transparency in wages, is definitely a hindrance to equality.

QUEST: Good to see you. Thank you.

As we continue, coming, up Related is competing for a gambling license in New York City. The chief executive tells me that it wouldn't be just the

best of the area, it will be the best of the world.

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QUEST: The chief executive of Related says its bid for a New York gambling license would create the number one gaming destination in the world. The

company's partnered with Wynn Resorts on this casino and is competing with several other groups for the licenses from New York state.

[15:50:00]

QUEST: CNN's offices, in fact, where I am at the moment, I am in the very heart of a Related building at Hudson Yards. You wouldn't know it because

there are no windows in this room. But Jeff Blau told me his vision for phase 2 of this whole mammoth development.

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QUEST: Hudson Yards is an engineering marvel. All of this is actually built over the railroad tracks going to Penn Station. Essentially, it is a

large platform. Now Related wants to do the same thing with the remaining railroad yards. Only this time, it could be turned into a casino.

JEFF BLAU, CEO, RELATED: We decided that we would propose for the western rail yard, that to be our anchor building. Not the whole, yards but the

anchor building. So we went through a process to partner with -- we met all of the operators and ultimately decided that the best operator for us would

be Wynn Resorts.

Together you have the --

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QUEST: Tonight's "Profitable Moment." I finally understand this whole business of the problem with TikTok.

I used to think, well why does anybody care?

For goodness sake, what is in my phone?

Why does the Chinese government care what I've been looking at online?

But today's testimony of Marco Rubio, I would think with the FBI director on Capitol Hill, gave me insight. It is not about what you or I have got on

our phones, what naughtiness or whatever. Not a bit of it.

It is about the ability to set the agenda of what comes to our phones. So for example, the ability to change the algorithm on TikTok so that people

would see more pro Chinese stories or anti Taiwan stories.

It's the ability to push something up the agenda or push it right down to the point of oblivion. That is the reason. It is the ability to influence

on a macro scale that is really important as opposed to a hacker who is going to steal your identity. Although, I think there's probably a good bit

of mischief that could be done with that, too.

That is the reason, look, I will be 61 tomorrow. All this technology stuff is a bit much for me. But I'm finally getting a little bit of

understanding. And that is QUEST MEANS BUSINESS for tonight. I'm Richard Quest in New York. Whatever you're up to in the week ahead, I will be in

Bangladesh next week, I hope it is profitable.

END