Return to Transcripts main page

Quest Means Business

Opposition Attempts To Form New Government After Victories; Biden And McCarthy Meet On Looming Debt Deadline; Business Leaders Warn Of Disastrous Consequences Of Default; OpenAI CEO Urges More Regulation; Ukrainian Women Step In For Conscripted Male Miners; CIA Launches Video To Recruit Russian Spies; Five Guilty Of Dresden Robbery. Aired 3-4p ET

Aired May 16, 2023 - 15:00   ET



ZAIN ASHER, CNN INTERNATIONAL HOST: It's a down day on the market. The Dow is more than 200 points lower. Those are the markets and these are the main


After a landslide victory, Thailand's opposition face an uphill battle to form a government. The leader of the Move Forward Party joins me live.

Joe Biden is due to meet congressional leaders this hour in the showdown over the debt ceiling.

The head of ChatGPT urges congress to create safety standards for advanced AI.

Coming to you live from New York, it is Tuesday, May 16th. I'm Zain Asher, in for Richard Quest, and this is QUEST MEANS BUSINESS.

Good evening.

Tonight, Thailand's opposition parties are in talks to form a new government after huge election wins this weekend.

The populist party says it is letting the Move Forward Party lead that effort. It's a crushing blow to Thailand's military-backed establishment.

The incumbent prime minister spoke earlier. He thanked his supporters and said he will stay on until a new government is formed.


GEN. PRAYUTH CHAN-OCHA, THAI PRIME MINISTER (through translator): Today, we all know that we have had an election that's been held according to the

democratic process.

I would like to thank the people for coming out to vote. I would like to congratulate every political party that received votes from the people.

From now on, the formation of the new government will be in process.


ASHER: Despite winning the most seats, the Move Forward Party and its leader face steep challenges.

Thailand's Constitution gives the military complete control over the Senate. In the past, parties that have run afoul of the establishment have

been banned, and the country has faced numerous rebellions and coups over the past century, most recently in 2014, when the military seized power.

Still, popular anger against the establishment has been growing, and the opposition has a historic opportunity to pass reforms.

Pita Limjaroenrat is the head of the Move Forward Party. He joins us live now from Bangkok.

Mr. Pita, thank you so much for being with us.

We will talk about some of the challenges that your party faces in just a second. But, in the meantime, just in terms of these elections, what sort

of message do you think is being spent -- sent, rather, to the military- backed establishment with the outcome of these elections?

PITA LIMJAROENRAT, LEADER, MOVE FORWARD PARTY: I think it's pretty clear that people have demanded change here in Thailand.

With the historical voting turnout in Thai politically history, it's very clear that it's a sentiment of the era has changed, and we have developed a

consensus for a new day here in Bangkok, Thailand.

ASHER: So, even though you won the most seats and you won the largest share of the popular vote, it is obviously one thing to actually win the

election. It's another thing entirely to actually become prime minister, especially because the military...


ASHER: ... has so much say in this process.


ASHER: Just walk us through some of the challenges that face you and your party going forward.

LIMJAROENRAT: Well, I think it's -- it's pretty clear that the coalition is taking shape.

As we speak right now, I have my negotiation team. I have my transition team to make sure that the transition of power is smooth. However, the

process is three steps from now. The Election Committee has to endorse the candidacy. Then we have to elect a House speaker. And then the third step,

we're to have joint voting between the Lower House and the Upper House.

That's where politics of elected by 25 million people against appointed of senators from military coup backed in the last decade. So, that will be the

kind of struggles that people are looking at. However, I have my scenario analysis of various scenarios that could come out, and we have prepared a

strategic response to prepare for each of the scenarios that might take up.

ASHER: So, in terms of one of the scenarios, I mean, how do you overcome the powerful sort of voting bloc in the Senate that has clearly

demonstrated time and time again that they prefer a military candidate?

How do you overcome that?


LIMJAROENRAT: Well, it's not just an absolute roadblock only from the senators, because the unity of the senators is not the same as it was

before, four years ago. For the past four years, the significant shift in public opinion and the kind of consensus that's already been developed and

shown in the election.

So it's not always the case that the senators, even if it's military- appointed, will decide on the vote as before in the previous election. So, I think, if we keep communicating and we keep explaining what we're trying

to do for the country, we -- how well we mean for the future of this country, I think that will not be a significant roadblock.

And the price to pay, the cost of going against 25 million votes here in Thailand will be very hefty.

ASHER: So, just in terms of the outcome of the election here, one of the things that has worked in your favor, it appears, is the fact that your

party won by such a large margin.

Had the outcome of the election been that much more hazy, that much closer, this would be a very different scenario for you and your party, just in

terms of how much harder the weeks ahead would look.

LIMJAROENRAT: Well, that's about weight of the politics. It depends on the desire of the voters, how they wanted to see the country going forward.

And it turns out to be 50 million vote for me, which is almost like 2.5 times more than the previous election. Even with all that we went through

for the past four years, we still won by a large margin. And that gave us the consensus to form the government and hopefully to deploy our policies

that we have promised to the people of Thailand before the votes.

ASHER: So, what would it look like if the outcome of this election is subverted by the military?

I mean, I mentioned in one of my earlier questions that, you know, it's one thing to win the election in Thailand. It's another thing to actually

emerge as the winner, as in become prime minister. What -- what's at stake here if the military subverts the will, as you point out, of 25 million


LIMJAROENRAT: Well, we have to minimize that risk.

I agree with the question that there's two different things from winning an election and the road map to become the prime minister. However, I have the

plan to bridge that gap between what's on paper and what's on the streets, in terms of reality of the politics.

So, even if the election is done, the politicking is taking shape and, like I answered you previously, that we have two or three teams just to make

sure that we minimize the risk of subversion, and, hopefully, that we keep communicating to the people. And that will become the kind of desire, the

kind of consensus that allows me to bridge the gap.

ASHER: When you think about what happened in 2019, your party, the Move Forward Party's predecessor, the Future Forward Party, won the third most

votes back in 2019.


ASHER: And, shortly after the election, the party ended up being dissolved, and the leaders ended up being banned from politics.


ASHER: So, that sort of gives you a taste of what could happen in this scenario.

Looking back at that, at what happened four years ago, how much does that concern you?

LIMJAROENRAT: I'm not worried, but I'm not careless as well.

I mean, I have been in politics in Thailand for the past 20 years, started from a very junior position. So I can see the brutality, the brutality of

politics all around the world, not just Thailand.

So I think what we need to do just to make sure that we're not concerned about this is to anticipate scenarios that could happen and learn from the

past, and we prevent it from happening.

We -- I have a strong legal team. I have strong practices just to make sure that we don't give out any easy targets for party dissolution once again or

to get me out of my authority for no reasons.

Yes, there's professional and personal attacks against me, but I have prepared in the past in order to clarify and explain in making sure I have

a strong legal basis for anything that comes my way to the government house.

ASHER: So, these elections, of course, were monumental just in terms of the number of young people, the sheer number of young people coming out and

showing their sort of ardent opposition to military rule.


ASHER: With that responsibility, just walk us through some of your policy priorities for Thailand over the next sort of four to five years.


LIMJAROENRAT: Yes. Well, your question is two or three-folds.

First of all, young voters came out a lot, about five million new first- time voters here in Thailand, but the entire generation, not just the first-time, not just the young, the middle age, or the old, with the

historical voting turnout of seven -- almost 76 percent, that's pretty sensational.

In terms of the second-fold, you asked me about policy priorities, it's actually three D's. First is to demilitarize. Second is to demonopolize.

And third is to decentralize Thailand.

I think, with a three-pronged approach, that's the only way that we can fully democratize Thailand and make sure that Thailand is back to business,

Thailand is back on the global arena, making sure that the country is contributing, as well as benefiting by the new definition of globalization.

ASHER: All right, Mr. Pita, thank you so much for being with us. And best of luck as your party moves forward and forms a coalition.

LIMJAROENRAT: Thank you so much for having me.

ASHER: Of course.


ASHER: You're very welcome.

LIMJAROENRAT: Appreciate it.

ASHER: The former CEO tells US lawmakers he is sorry for the collapse of Silicon Valley Bank, but he's definitely not accepting all the blame. Why

Greg Becker says social media was the real villain, next on QUEST MEANS BUSINESS.


ASHER: President Biden and House Speaker Kevin McCarthy are meeting right now to try and resolve the US debt ceiling impasse. It could be a long

process still. One key Republican says there's a lot of distance between where they are and where they need to be.

The deadline to avoid default is fast approaching. It could come as early as June, June 1st in fact.

Jeremy Diamond is at the White House. So two weeks left, Jeremy and both sides are still quite far apart it seems. Walk us through it.

All right, it looks as though we don't have Jeremy Diamond -- Jeremy, can you hear me?


ASHER: No worries. I was just saying that two weeks left until this debt ceiling deadline and both sides are still far apart at this point.


DIAMOND: Yes, they certainly are and look I think the pool was just brought into the Oval Office where President Biden is now sitting down with those

congressional leaders and they have just 16 days until the US potentially could default on its debt obligations, which would be horrific in terms of

the US economic impact, millions of jobs lost, people who rely on Social Security checks, not getting those checks in the mail.

And so in light of that, what you've been having over the last several days since the President met with those congressional leaders last week, is

staff sitting down to try and define the contours of negotiations, to try and figure out where there are potential areas of agreement and some areas

of agreement certainly have emerged.

And that is, in particular, as it relates to the White House recognizing that they are going to need to agree to some spending cuts, potentially

caps on spending. There are also some agreements on clawing back some of those unused COVID funds.

But there are still some contentious points. One of those is on this issue of work requirements for some of these social benefit programs, and the

President, keeping the door open to working with Republicans on some of those but also drawing a line it appears on anything that would have --

that would touch on Medicaid, which would impact health insurance coverage for individuals.

So there is a lot to get done in a very short period of time and that is also why we just heard the White House's national security spokesman, John

Kirby say that the president is leaving tomorrow for Japan for this G7 Summit. But where he is potentially canceling is the second leg of his trip

to Papua New Guinea and to Australia.

John Kirby told me that they are considering canceling that second leg of the trip. I asked what the message is that that sends, especially at a time

when the US is trying to really carve out a space leading in the Indo Pacific and he said that it shows that the president is someone who's

concerned about this potential for default and that he is ensuring that the US will meet its obligations. That is ultimately the message that he is

leaving with the world.

But we will see if indeed that second portion of the trip is canceled. They have yet to confirm that officially -- Zain.

ASHER: I think most Americans want to know Jeremy, how realistic the possibility of default actually is. So many people have talked about this

idea of invoking the 14th Amendment and then some people say there are legal issues with that.

It looks as though we are hearing from Joe Biden. Let's go to Washington where moments ago President Joe Biden alongside House Speaker Kevin

McCarthy was speaking. The two men are trying to hammer out a deal to avert a US debt default. Let's listen.


ASHER: Okay, you can see that President Joe Biden alongside Kamala Harris being shouted at, having to deal with so many questions from reporters. I

think you could hear him there saying that -- oh, I see Chuck Schumer sitting on the bench, too.

The president there saying he has no comment. Obviously, so much is at stake for that June 1st deadline, a lot of people fearful that there could

be a default, although the possibility does indeed seem somewhat of a long shot at this point.

Negotiations between President Biden and Kevin McCarthy are still ongoing at this point.

U.S. business leaders, though are urging Washington to reach a debt ceiling agreement and avoid a default. The open letter was signed by nearly 150

CEOs from a wide variety of companies. It is addressed to the President and top lawmakers from both parties. It warns of disastrous, disastrous

consequences if the US does not meet its obligations.

Steven Rattner, the CEO of Willett Advisors is among those who signed the letter. He joins us live now from New York.

Steven, thank you so much for being with us. How realistic do you think the possibility of default, actually is? I think there are a lot of people at

this point who are still very skeptical that that could actually happen in this country.

STEVEN RATTNER, CEO, WILLETT ADVISORS: I don't think they should be skeptical. I think it's entirely possible. It's obviously not something any

of us who signed that letter want, it's not something that any American should want. But anyone who has been involved in these things before will

tell you I believe that this is the most contentious, the furthest apart that any of these negotiations that have ever been.

In 2011, we came very close to defaulting. We lost our AAA credit rating from Standard & Poor's and that ultimately did get resolved. I hope this

one will be, too.


But again, for those of us who went through that one and 2013, and many others, this one does seem to be the most daunting ever.

ASHER: And when you think about what is at stake here for the US economy, I think the hardest thing is that, yes, we can use words like "catastrophic"

and "apocalyptic." But the truth is that we don't really actually know what would be on the other side, just give us your take on what it will look

like in this country come June 1st, if there is still no deal.

RATTNER: Well, let's again, go back to 2011, which as we both said, did get resolved, but in the course of it getting resolved, the stock market

dropped 17 percent. There were at 1.2 million fewer jobs than there otherwise would have been, according to private economic estimates --

nonpartisan economic estimates, and that was all in the context of one that got resolved.

So imagine some multiple of that, if this didn't get resolved, it's not hard to see us definitely going into recession, instead of just possibly

going into recession.

It is not hard to see markets crater by substantial double digit amounts. It's not hard to see people getting laid off, or certainly people not

getting hired anymore for a while. It's not hard to see the US losing its status as a reserve currency and having foreign owners of our debt dump it

on the market. It's not hard to see a lot of really awful things.

ASHER: When you think about the stock market, though, the stock market's been somewhat slow to react. The reaction of the stock market has been


I mean, we're seeing obviously a little bit more reaction in the bond market in terms of debt, but really with stocks, there's been a sort of

pause. I guess, the markets are really believing that there will be a deal.

At what point will we start to see stocks react more? Will it be, let's say a week before the deadline? Will it be two days before the deadline? What

are your thoughts?

RATTNER: I think somewhere in between probably those two dates that you gave me is when we'll start to see it -- two days to a week. A lot of it

depends on how far apart they seem to be, what people think the possibility is of a resolution.

But as you just alluded, there are signs in the credit markets and the debt markets of these stresses. The most obvious of these is on the insurance on

US debt, you can buy insurance on US debt just like you buy insurance on your car or your house, and those insurance rates, so to speak, are now at

many multiples of what they have ever been including in 2011, in terms of the cost of buying that insurance.

And so that market is telling you that it is really scared and nervous about the outcome of this.

ASHER: And just in terms of the other headwinds that the US economy is experiencing right now -- obviously, the US economy is very resilient, but

we've seen chaos in the banking sector, for example, obviously, inflation has a tight grip on the US economy, despite the Fed's efforts to

continually raise interest rates.

How does that complicate what the story will look like, what the picture will look like, if the US ends up defaulting on its debt, just the fact

that there are already some key issues in this economy?

RATTNER: Yes, look, that's a very good question and a very good point. You have two things in the economy and the financial system that should be --

make us certainly not want to default now and not want us ever default, but especially not now.

One is the fact that our financial system is undergoing some stresses and strains. There is an old line that when the Fed slams on the brakes,

somebody goes through the windshield, and you've had three banks go through the windshield in the past six weeks or so.

And so the financial system is under some pressure from these rising interest rates, and something, a debt default would simply exacerbate that.

And then secondly, as you did note, the economy is doing reasonably well. We're still growing, we had a somewhat positive first quarter GDP number,

it wasn't off the charts great, but it was always positive. We still have many employers trying to fill jobs and finding it hard to find enough


You still have consumer spending money with reasonable bank accounts. But all of that is against the backdrop of these rising interest rates, of

house prices that are either flat or falling, and of consumers that are starting to go through some of their savings and savings rate is quite low

at the moment.

And so this is not a moment, it is never a moment, but this is especially not a moment with the economy in a somewhat precarious situation where you

want to have a debt default or even anything close to a debt default.

ASHER: As you point out, it is never a good time for a debt default ever, but especially not now.

Steven Rattner, we have to leave it there, thank you so much.

On Capitol Hill earlier, the former CEO of Silicon Valley Bank apologized for SVB's spectacular collapse just a few weeks ago.


Testifying before the Senate Banking Committee, Greg Becker blamed the media and Federal Reserve rate hikes for the bank's sudden demise.

Becker said, a misleading "Financial Times" article created panic among clients, triggering a run on deposit. Becker said no bank could have



GREG BECKER, FORMER CEO, SILICON VALLEY BANK: Rumors and misconceptions quickly spread online culminating on March 9th with the first ever social

media bank run, leading to $42 billion in deposits being withdrawn from SVB in 10 hours, or roughly $1 million every second.

Over two days, approximately 80 percent of total deposits were requested to be removed from SVB. To put the unprecedented velocity of this bank run in

context, the previous largest bank run in US history was 19 billion in deposits over 16 days.


ASHER: Becker's testimony comes just weeks after a Federal Reserve review of the SVB's collapse that castigated those in charge for failing to

adequately manage risks.

CNN Business reporter, Matt Egan joins us live now.

So Matt, just walk us through more of what Becker had to say for himself?

MATT EGAN, CNN REPORTER: Well, Zain, you know, this is the first time we're hearing from these former bank executives since these failures that really

caused a crisis of confidence across the entire banking industry.

And as you mentioned, Becker was apologetic, but he also did try to sort of shift the blame here, right, pointing to the role of the media, social

media fanning the flames of some of these rumors, and also the Federal Reserve's war on inflation, because, remember, these bank failures came

after the Fed spiked interest rates at the fastest pace, since we've seen since just really the early 1980s.

And as rates went up, the value of the bonds that banks were sitting on, they went down, and that caused massive losses at Silicon Valley Bank.

Now, Becker pointed out that, you know, the message from the Fed during 2020 and much of 2021 was that rates would probably stay low, and that

inflation was transitory.

Of course, we knew that there was a risk that inflation was not going to be transitory, and it wasn't, and that rates would have to go up and they did.

And lawmakers, they really took the former Silicon Valley Bank CEO to task for failing to manage this risk, for failing to hedge the bank's risks here

and risks and their bets.

So listen to this exchange between Republican Senator John Kennedy and the former SVB CEO.


SEN. JOHN KENNEDY (R-LA): Becker, you made a really stupid bet that went bad, didn't you?

BECKER: Senator --

KENNEDY: And the taxpayers of America had to pick up the tab for your stupidity, didn't they?

BECKER: Senator, they were a series of events, unprecedented events that occurred that led us to where we are today.

KENNEDY: No, this was an unprecedented. This was bone deep down to the marrow, stupid.


EGAN: So some very harsh words that we're hearing there from Republican Senator John Kennedy. But Zain, there was really a bipartisan condemnation

of the bank executives at this hearing today.

ASHER: Another point of note, though, during this hearing, is that Becker actually declined to commit returning the bonuses that he and the

leadership team got just hours before the bank collapse. Explain.

EGAN: That's right, Zain.

So these bank executives, both at Silicon Valley Bank and Signature Bank, they made tens of millions of dollars in the months and years before their

banks collapsed, even though that came at a time when bank supervisors, when regulators were flagging these issues that were festering at the banks

and these issues were getting -- they weren't getting resolved.

And so lawmakers on both sides of the aisle, they asked the executives whether or not they plan to return this money and no one committed to doing


And really, this added some momentum behind Democratic senator Elizabeth Warren's bipartisan bill that she has with Republican Josh Hawley, which

would actually give regulators new powers to claw back compensation from bank executives at banks that have failed.

Elizabeth Warren said that her bill would try to sort of take away some of the incentive for bank CEOs to, you know, blow up their banks and risk the

entire economy.

We'll see if today's hearing is enough to get that bipartisan bill and any other new regulation through Congress -- Zain.

ASHER: Matt Egan, live for us there. Thank you so much.

All right, still to come here. Senators on both sides of the aisle agreed earlier that AI needs to be regulated, the dangers of it on full display.




ASHER (voice-over): Senators on both sides of the aisle agreed earlier that AI needs to be regulated. The dangers of it (INAUDIBLE).




ASHER: Hello, everyone. I am Zain Asher. There is more QUEST MEANS BUSINESS when the creator of ChatGPT warns U.S. lawmakers AI could be used to

manipulate voters.

And five men get prison sentences in Germany over a jewelry heist. We'll bring you the details.

Before that, this is CNN and the news always comes first.


ASHER (voice-over): Ukrainian officials say air defense batteries intercepted 18 missiles fired by Russia overnight, defending Kyiv from

exceptionally fierce air assault. Russia claims in order to destroy U.S. made Patriot air defense system. The U.S. official disputes that, saying it

was damaged but not destroyed.

In Ecuador, the national assembly began an impeachment hearing against the president. He is accused of embezzlement and could be forced out if

lawmakers vote to impeach. He has denied any wrongdoing. He is drafted legislature to prevent being impeached.

Austrian police say they have filed a criminal complaint against two people accused of playing a Hitler speech over the train's loudspeakers. The

train's operators say the two were actually passengers. They were identified using security footage. They have not yet been detained.

Researchers say ChatGPT 4, the latest AI from OpenAI, is showing reasoning ability that approaches the human brain. Researchers from Microsoft say

ChatGPT 4 solves tasks in a variety of fields with close to a human level of performance and in many cases, it vastly surpasses ChatGPT.



ASHER: The head of the company behind ChatGPT suggested the U.S. develop ways to test and license AI technology. Sam Altman was called to testify on

Capitol Hill along with IBM's chief privacy officer and a New York University professor.

At the hearing, senators from both parties expressed fears of artificial intelligence. Democrat Richard Blumenthal showed how easily it can be used

to produce disinformation by playing fake audio of his own voice.


SEN. RICHARD BLUMENTHAL (D-CT), MEMBER, SENATE JUDICIARY COMMITTEE: And now, first of all, some introductory more marks.

BLUMENTHAL FAKE: Too often we have seen what happens when technology outpaces regulation; the unbridled exploitation of personal data, the

proliferation of disinformation.


ASHER: Altman said the potential for AI to manipulate voters is one of his greatest concerns.


SAM ALTMAN, CEO, OPENAI: My worst fears are that we cause significant -- we, the field, the technology, the industry -- cause significant harm to

the world. I think that can happen in a lot of different ways. It is why we started the company.

It is a big part of why I'm here today, why we have been here in the past and able to spend some time with you. I think that if this technology goes

wrong, it can go quite wrong. And we want to be vocal about that.

We want to work with the government to prevent that from happening. But we try to be very clear eyed about what the downside case is and the work that

we have to do to mitigate that.


ASHER: Donie O'Sullivan has been following this from Washington, D.C. He joins us live now.

I'm not sure if you're in, D.C. or New York. I swear I saw you today in New York. I think you are in New York.

I am in New York.


ASHER: But seriously, those words from Sam Altman, they were very eerie. He was very forthcoming about the dangers here. Walk us through what

regulation actually looks like.

How do companies adhere to safety standards?

DONIE O'SULLIVAN, CNN TECH CORRESPONDENT: Look, I think even Senator Blumenthal, the chair of the committee today, said at the end, this is very

much an introductory hearing, you know?

They are not going to figure this out over the course of three or four hours. There are so many issues. They touched on a lot of them today. Of

course, the big one is jobs.

How is AI going to replace a lot of people's jobs?

Sam Altman said he is confident that it will replace a lot of jobs. But it will improve the quality of some jobs. And it will create new jobs, very

much describing this at a technological revolution, saying just as previous technological revolutions have replaced jobs and created new ones, some

will. This

Also talk about how we have seen the deepfakes, fake audio; how this might be used in elections here in the U.S. and around the world. They also spoke

about the national security threat of this, how AI can be used, whether it is disinformation campaigns or elsewhere.

Another thing that came up was the music industry. We have seen recording artists are having their voices faked. People are able to create their

voices and create new songs that make it sound like these artists have released songs. There are questions there about copyright and compensation.

So many issues to break down there. But what Sam Altman said today was, look, this is technology that is very powerful. He did not underplay how

this could, potentially, be dangerous, as well. So it was a pretty informative hearing. But it barely scratches the surface of what needs to

or what could be done.

ASHER: What is at stake as we head into election season?

O'SULLIVAN: Look, I think, you know, you look back at how many times a tape, an audiotape has changed the course of an election or has become a

major talking point during an election here in the U.S., in the U.K., around the world. That sort of audio is going to be so easy to fake now.

Even Senator Blumenthal did it today. He played a clip at the top of the hearing, which was a fake version of his voice. It was created using AI. So

we talk about the misinformation, disinformation, climate was challenging before all of this.

This is very much a next level. So I will say, obviously, one thing we heard over and over again today from the lawmakers was they did not want to

repeat the same mistakes they said they had made with social media companies.

When they had the chance to maybe reign in the social media companies, they did not do. That they came to it too late. Actually, I was looking today.

Mark Zuckerberg, the founder of Facebook, did not appear in front of Congress until 2018, that is when Facebook was about 14 years old.


O'SULLIVAN: Obviously you can see this Congress is trying to catch up to this technology. But the one stark, the most stark, dystopian, if you like,

issue with all of this is that, even when we hear from Altman or senior people at Google or elsewhere, people who are working with these AI systems

and creating these AI systems, there are things that the AI systems can do or behaviors that the AI system show or things that the AI system can

figure out.

The people who are running them, like Altman, don't even know quite exactly how it works, how AI Is able to figure out certain things. So whatever the

lawmakers try to catch up with this, the people behind this technology are still also trying to figure it out.

ASHER: Donie O'Sullivan, live for us. Thank you so much.

As the war in Ukraine rages on, women are filling the jobs that were previously seen as, quote-unquote, "men's work," like blacksmithing and

mining. More on that when we come back.




ASHER: As the war in Ukraine grinds on, more and more men are being called up to fight, leaving vital jobs vacant. Many Ukrainian women are now

stepping up to fill roles traditionally held by men, like mining. CNN's Nic Robertson went underground to find out more.


NIC ROBERTSON, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): In a man's world war is changing everything. Tetiana is at the vanguard, shattering Ukrainian coal

mining history, a woman on her way to work a thousand feet underground.

ROBERTSON: It's normal, it's OK now?


ROBERTSON: Yes, good.

Is it good?

Do you like it, huh?

TETIANA: Yes, I want it.

ROBERTSON: You wanted to be a miner?


ROBERTSON: Yes. Your family, your grandfather or father was a miner.


ROBERTSON: Yes, yes, yes.

ROBERTSON (voice-over): She used to work above ground but when miners got called up to fight and martial law cleared women for dangerous jobs, she

jumped at a job deep in the mine.

TETIANA (through translator): I always wanted to work here but girls were not allowed. When many men were conscripted, the man had to keep working.

So to protect our country, the girl stepped up.

ROBERTSON (voice-over): She works six hour shifts, three days on --


ROBERTSON (voice-over): -- one day off, earns more than previously, wants to keep her underground job when the war is over.

TETIANA: My work is not physically difficult. I like it a lot. I would like to continue working here.

ROBERTSON (voice-over): In this, bastion of male-dominated tradition, that may not be so easy.

OLEKSANDR, LEAD ENGINEER (through translator): I think when the war is over and we will win, I think women will return about the ground and do women's


ROBERTSON (voice-over): Yet even chief engineer Oleksandr admits, without Tetiana and many other women, the mine could not have kept going.

OLEKSANDR (through translator): Around 700 of our miners get called up to fight. Our women wanted to help both the mine and the country. So far 46

women are working on the ground now.

ROBERTSON: There hasn't been a general mobilization of women but plenty of traditional male only workplaces are finding women stepping up and taking

jobs that before the war would have only gone to men.

ROBERTSON: Maria is among them, for the love of Ukraine and of her husband.

MARIA KOBETS, BLACKSMITH, KOBETS FORGE (through translator): I knew this theory but the practice turned out to be a little hotter.

ROBERTSON (voice-over): She took up his blacksmith job when he got called up to fight last year. They bought the forge together a few years earlier,

invested their future in it.

KOBETS (through translator): This is my husband's passion and his life's business. I decided to support him to keep his job alive while he's


ROBERTSON (voice-over): She shows me a video of her husband, Andriy (ph), working at the same anvil. Prewar, his artwork, some "Game of Thrones"

themed, selling in the U.S. and Europe for hundreds of dollars. She is focusing on simpler stuff, on a kebab skewer.

KOBETS (through translator): I very often cry in the forge here. My husband is defending us and that is very dangerous. But this work helps me to hold

on and not fall apart.

ROBERTSON (voice-over): Women have been here before, remember Rosie the Riveter, icon of women at work in World War II, she and others cracked the

glass ceiling. More than a hint of Rosie in Maria and perhaps of changes here, too.

KOBETS (through translator): It's tiring work but it's interesting. I would like to do it but I feel like it, not what I have to do it.

ROBERTSON (voice-over): Maria, Tetiana, two of many who bravely stepped up, no doubt more challenges ahead -- Nic Robertson, CNN, in a coal mine,

Eastern Ukraine.


ASHER: The CIA is trying to recruit Russian spies. The agency has posted a two-minute long video on social media, trying to target disgruntled

Russians. The goal, persuade them to share any secrets or sensitive information they may know. CNN's Alex Marquardt has more.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE (from captions): Is this the life I dreamed of?

The path I chose?

ALEX MARQUARDT, CNN SENIOR NATIONAL SECURITY CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Questions being asked in Russian in a new dramatic video by the CIA just

released to try to recruit more Russian spies by appealing to Russians patriotism, frustrations and the oppression they face under the Putin



MARQUARDT (voice-over): CIA officials told CNN in an exclusive interview that the war in Ukraine has created an unprecedented opportunity that they

want to capitalize on recruit new Russian assets.

WILLIAM BURNS, DIRECTOR, CIA: Disaffection with the war will continue to gnaw away at the Russian leadership beneath a steady diet of state

propaganda and practiced repression.

MARQUARDT (voice-over): In the past year of the war, the CIA has been encouraging Russians with valuable information to contact them quietly,

securely and anonymously through a portal on the dark web.

DAVID MARLOWE, DEPUTY DIRECTOR FOR OPERATIONS, CIA: We're looking around the world for Russians who were is disgusted with that as we are because

we're open for business.

MARQUARDT (voice-over): Instructions have been posted on the CIA's social media accounts. And this new video after making an emotional pitch to

Russian viewers details how to do that using the dark web browser called Tor. You're not powerless, it says, contact us in a safe way.

The CIA recruitment video was first posted Monday evening on Telegram, the social media app that is highly popular among Russians who can't easily

access unfiltered news or other social media sites.

JAMES OLSON, FORMER CHIEF OF COUNTERINTELLIGENCE, CIA: I call that hanging out the shingle and spreading the word far and wide that US and

counterintelligence is open for business and we have deep pockets. And you want to strike about back against this man you hate, Vladimir Putin. You

have an opportunity now to do it safely.

MARQUARDT (voice-over): CIA officials told CNN they hope the video will resonate beyond intelligence and security officials with people who may not

realize that they have sensitive information to share working, for example, in cyber, tech, finance and other fields.

They may think contacting the CIA is too difficult or too dangerous. The CIA telling CNN they want to demystify that.

OLSON: We need people through the Russian economy to cooperate with us. We need to know what's going on in this adversary country.

MARQUARDT (voice-over): There is no direct mention of Putin or Ukraine, nor CIA officials insist is it meant to fuel unrest in Russia. Rather, they

tell CNN, these are timeless themes that they hope will drive Russians into the arms of the CIA.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE (from captions): This will always be my Russia. I will endure. My family will endure. We will live with dignity, thanks to my


MARQUARDT: In terms of what the CIA has already seen in their efforts to recruit new Russian spies during this war, they do say that they have been

successful. One CIA official told me, in his words, there's contact coming in.

Now CIA won't give any numbers or say where these Russians work but the CIA said they wouldn't be rolling out this new video if they hadn't already had

some success.

We should also note that the FBI has tried recruiting Russian spies right here in Washington, with ads specifically targeted at people coming and

going from the Russian embassy, an effort that the embassy called "ridiculous" -- Alex Marquardt, CNN, Washington.


ASHER: It was one of the most brazen jewel heists in recent history. Now five members of one of Germany's biggest crime families have been convicted

for the massive theft. Only some of the loot has been recovered. That is. Next




ASHER: Years ago a gang broke into the Green Vault Museum in the German City of Dresden and got away with $123 million worth of jewels. Today, the

court convicted five men from one of Germany's most famous crime families for their roles in that heist. CNN's Fred Pleitgen has more.


FREDERIK PLEITGEN, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): It is one of the most brazen heists in modern history, robbers shattering

glass cases with hammers and making off with tens of millions worth of museum artifacts in Dresden, Germany, in 2019.


PLEITGEN (voice-over): "I don't need to tell you how shocked we are, also, about the brutality of this break-in," the museum's director said at the


"This is of invaluable art historic and culture historic value."

The gangsters first started a fire, causing a power outage in the Green Vault Museum. They broke in and stole 21 pieces of historic jewelry, some

of the most valuable in the world, studded with more than 4,300 diamonds.

The total insurance value of the loot, around $130 million. Five of the six suspects, all members of an infamous Berlin mobster clan, have now been

convicted by a German court. One defendant was acquitted.

The sentences range from four years and four months to a little over six years. However, some are walking free after a plea bargain with the

prosecution, causing angry reactions from all over the country.

"Three of the main offenders among the adults have been released today," the presiding judge said.

But where are the jewels?

While the robbers did tell investigators where some of the stolen artifacts are located, helping drivers to retrieve them from a canal in Berlin, the

most valuable pieces are still missing, without a trace. The now convicts claim not to know where they are.

"This means that the State of Saxony can and must claim its damages within the framework of civil lawsuits," the presiding judge said.

State authorities are offering a reward of up to 0.5 million euros for clues helping to find the missing historic jewelry. But they acknowledged

some of the pieces might never be found, because they have been broken into pieces.

All of this as those now convicted of stealing the artifacts walked out of the courtroom and drove off, allowed to serve their sentences at a later

time -- Fred Pleitgen, CNN, Berlin.


ASHER: There are just moments left to trade on Wall Street. We will have the final numbers and the closing bell right after this.




ASHER: There are just moments left of trading. It has been quite a lackluster day on Wall Street. The Dow is down by 333 points, opened low;

it has been in the red all day after disappointing results from retailer Home Depot.

Markets were also weighed down by worries over the debt ceiling talks that are happening in Washington. Let's look at the Dow components. Briefly, we

see McDonald's, Coca-Cola, Apple are all in the red.

That is QUEST MEANS BUSINESS. I am Zain Asher. Your news continues here after this.