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Quest Means Business

Banging Sound Heard In Search For Missing Sub; Powell: Fed's Inflation Fight Far From Over; Billions Pledged To Ukraine At Recovery Conference; Former OceanGate Employees Raised Concerns; Copa Airlines Leans Into Boeing's 737 MAX; Call To Earth: U.K.'s Chester Zoo; Equatic And Boeing Team Up On Carbon Removal. Aired 3-4p ET

Aired June 21, 2023 - 15:00   ET



RICHARD QUEST, CNN INTERNATIONAL HOST: The markets are essentially flat, but that's not pause for too much concern.

If you take a look, as you can see a large loss in the morning has been evaporated and we're just tootling around zero. That shows an element of

uncertainty as I'm looking for direction. We'll talk about that as the hour moves on.

The main markets and the stories of the day: Banging sounds detected in the race to find the missing submersible. Now, the search teams are trying to

locate the source of those sounds.

The US Fed chair says there is still a long way to go in the fight against inflation.

And tonight, we'll meet the startup partnering with Boeing to remove carbon dioxide from the ocean. The chief executive of Equatic joins me tonight

live on the program.

Live from New York, it is Wednesday. It is June the 21st. It's the summer solstice in the north, the longest day of the year. I am Richard Quest, and

on that long day, I mean business.

Good evening.

We begin tonight with rescuers having heard more banging sounds on Wednesday in the search for the missing tourist submersible.

The first detected banging sounds on Tuesday where every 30 minutes. Now, the craft itself actually lost contact on Sunday while diving down to the

wreck of the Titanic. It is believed that the crew will potentially run out of breathable air within the next 24 hours.

However, the authorities are adamant that this still remains a search and rescue mission with underwater searches taking place using ROVs, remotely

operating vehicles because of the depths involved. Nothing has been found so far and the US Coast Guard gave this update just a short time ago.


CAPT. JAMIE FREDERICK, RESPONSE COORDINATOR, FIRST US COAST GUARD DISTRICT: One, I think when you're in the middle of a search and rescue case, you

always have hope. That's why we're doing what we do.

With respect to the noises specifically, we don't know what they are to be frank with you. The P3 detected noises, that's why they're up there. That's

why they're doing what they're doing. That's why they put sonar buoys in the water.

The good news is what I can tell you is we're searching in the area where the noises were detected and we will continue to do so, and we hope that

when we're able to get additional ROVs, which will be there in the morning, the intent will be to continue to search in those areas where the noises

were detected and if they're continuing to be detected, and then put additional ROVs down in the last known position where the search was

originally taking place.


QUEST: Now, the where the search is taking place, but that is a huge area of the North Atlantic, and even if they do find the sub deep in the ocean,

there will be considerable difficulty bringing it to the surface simply because of the depth and the complexity of the operation.

As for whether the sub has resurfaced on its own using its buoyancy buoys, there, I'm afraid that people are still in great danger, grave danger. They

can't open the hatch from the inside because before it is sent into the ocean, it is sealed with up to 17 bolts.

David Marquet is a former US Navy submarine commander joining me from Sarasota in Florida.

The list -- I mean, the Coast Guard says there's always hope, but the list of challenges and difficulties are pretty enormous.

DAVID MARQUET, FORMER US NAVY SUBMARINE COMMANDER: Yes, so but it's not zero percent chance of recovering them, and I think one of the challenges

is getting solved. The Navy has a system which has a long cable that's designed to be portable. So it is disassembled. It is flown in big

airplanes, that's happened.

They've gone to Newfoundland. They've been loaded on a ship and that ship is heading out, so if they are found the search part, the rescue part --

the piece for the rescue part will be in place, the ship should arrive out there.

There was a press conference by the company that operates that ship, and they think that ship is going to be out there early in the morning. Now,

that's desperately close to when the oxygen will run out, but it is still possible, but we need to find them.

QUEST: Is it your thinking and I fully understand that we don't know -- pardon the phrase -- the nuts and the bolts, but is it your thinking that

this craft will be somewhere between surface and the bottom and it won't actually have dropped to the bottom?


MARQUET: I think that's incredibly unlikely. That would mean it would be exactly neutrally buoyant. That's very unlikely if the systems work. Now,

this craft has several ways to get up to the surface, it can drop ballast, it can detach the legs, it can inflate balloons, it can use the propellers.

They'll either work and get it to the surface or if it's negatively buoyant, if it's heavier than the ocean, then it will sink to the bottom.

It would be incredibly unlikely for it to be just exactly buoyant and somehow floating in the middle of the water column. It's either on the

surface or it's on the bottom.

QUEST: Right now, again, it is because of the -- it is difficult to understand because I sort of think this thing as whenever it comes to the

top, if it's floating on the water because of its buoyant, why can't we say it? I mean, surely you fly enough -- if you fly enough, and you've got

satellites, and you've got everything, you've got all this sophisticated technology.

If it is buoyant on the surface, why is it so difficult to see?

MARQUET: Yes, it is -- let's say you've got an egg, a hard-boiled egg, and it's floating in the pan, not much of the egg. It's not like the egg is

sitting on top of the water, the egg is in the water and is barely this tiny little bit that's above the water and that is basically what we're

dealing with here.

The vast majority of this thing is going to be underwater. I did see pictures of it that have some sort of an antenna, or maybe it's a periscope

that they can raise to look out when they're driving around on the surface, but that's a pretty small thin and hopefully they've been able to do that.

But it is harder than you would think to find something sitting in the water, and then there are other things that distract us. There's just

debris, things that might seem to track that we go check out, we spend resource and it is not there.

QUEST: Because we don't know what's happened, I will concede -- my next question might be marginally unfair, but you will have read the criticisms

of this craft and how they have doubted. So would you have gone down on it?

MARQUET: No, I would not have gone down. There are a number of reasons. For me, you're taking a huge personal risk and I don't -- to me, it is not

offset by a compensatory gain being in the vicinity of the Titanic, but just looking at it sort of through a tiny peep hole doesn't really attract


And there's no -- to me, there's not a lot of physical endeavor here. Climbing a mountain, you need stamina, endurance, physical agility. But

here, you just need to endure sitting cross legged in an uncomfortable position for seven hours.

QUEST: Sir, I'm grateful to you. Thank you. I appreciate you for your insights.

Jason Carroll is in Boston and have been listening to the events of the day, and how they've been portraying it. They say still search and rescue.

One of the criticisms has been the amount of resources now arriving and the ability to sort of coordinate this -- to coordinate it in the most

efficient way.

I was hearing David Gallo last night talking about it with Kaitlan. So how are they ensuring the most efficient, if you will deployment, so everybody

is not on top of each other?

JASON CARROLL, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, what I can tell you about the Coast Guard is in terms of what they are coordinating, they will only

say that they are sending assets as they become available, and they're getting them to the region as best they can, considering that it is a

remote area. And when you talk about remote, you're talking about hundreds of miles east of where we are here in Boston.

So it is a remote area. It is a huge undertaking, especially when you're considering that it requires not just any old type of ship or commercial

ship or whatever the case may be, but an especially type of equipment that needs to come in from different ports. And so that would be one argument, I

suppose in terms from the Coast Guard, in terms of, you know, coordinating this huge effort to get assets where it's needed.

But in terms of the assets that are there. At least one can say that it has turned up a bit of news, especially when you consider what happened

yesterday, when you had that Canadian aircraft that dropped a sonar buoy and detected noises and apparently again this morning now we're hearing

from the Coast Guard and again they are saying that another Canadian aircraft did in fact pick up more -- did detect more noises after listening

to the sonar buoy that had been dropped into the ocean.


And so the question then becomes, these banging noises, Richard, what are they? Are these noises from these people who are trapped on board? Or are

they noises from some other means? And so that was the question put to the US Coast Guard. The Coast Guard is saying that what they're doing is they

are taking that acoustic information, they are sending it to the US Navy for analysis. And before they get that analysis back, they just can't --

they simply cannot say one way or another what those noises are.

So I think at this point, sort of a long-winded answer to your question, but if there is some criticism, it is probably coming from the loved ones

of those who are on board who want to know, who are desperate for news who want to know, are these noises human made? Or are these noises something

else -- Richard.

QUEST: And to take what you've just said and advance it, the interesting thing about that, Jason, is that they still happen? How can I put this?

They've got to go and continue to -- they have to believe that the noises are genuine, the banging is genuine, because they don't enjoy the luxury of

waiting for definitive answers afterwards, do they? So they have to proceed on the basis that this is something extremely important.

CARROLL: You're absolutely right. So they have to move with even more of a sense of urgency, which is why I think after they got these detections,

they moved these added resources into that specific area of the waters where they were searching. They moved in more of these so called ROVs,

these remotely operated vehicles that have cameras on them, that can go to depths beneath the water and sort of search and look around and report


So you're right, Richard. They do have to operate with the utmost sense of urgency, especially since when you consider as you were mentioning earlier,

the clock is running out.

I mean, by all estimates, even if you're able to conserve energy and conserve oxygen on board, you know, less than 24 hours or so of oxygen left

on board. And so the question then becomes what happens when the clock runs out?

QUEST: Sir, I'm grateful. Thank you very much, Jason Carroll who is up in Boston. Thank you.

Let's go to our business, our regular business agenda tonight.

Inflation in the United Kingdom held steady, but it was still a stubborn 8.7 percent. The economists have expected it to fall in core inflation,

which actually rose to a 31-year high.

The latest numbers will put further pressure on the Bank of England. The Monetary Policy Committee meets tomorrow. It is expected to raise rates for

the 13th time in a row and now, the issue is by how much? A quarter or half a percentage point?

Jerome Powell in the US says the Fed could also be back in the business of raising rates. He is testifying before US lawmakers when he defended the

Central Bank's efforts to bring inflation down. Just to a large extent it does seem to be working. It has moderated inflation in the US. It is still

double the Fed's two percent target, and the chair talked about last week's decision to hold rates steady.


JEROME POWELL, US FEDERAL RESERVE CHAIRMAN: We didn't -- we never use the word pause and I wouldn't use it here today. What we did was we agreed to

maintain the rate at that meeting. Almost every single of the 16 of the 18 participants on the FOMC wrote down that they do believe it'll be

appropriate to raise rates and a big majority believes raise rates twice this year.

And you know, I think that's a pretty good guess of what will happen if the economy performs about as expected.


QUEST: Ken Fisher is with me, the founder and executive chairman of Fisher Investments. It doesn't get clearer than that in a sense. He basically said

we're going to raise rates twice more this year. It's just a question of when.

KEN FISHER, FOUNDER AND EXECUTIVE CHAIRMAN, FISHER INVESTMENTS: Well, first, thank you for having me back, Richard, you're the best.

The reality is yes. The other reality that people don't talk about, however, is that globally, loan growth continues relatively robust and

these interest rate hikes haven't really eaten into that yet.

So while the inflation is a problem, the economy globally has remained stronger than people ever expected, and that is particularly true in


QUEST: Except the argument would go against that, sir, that well, maybe now, but you just wait for these interest rates to bite for example.

Let's take the UK when mortgages that are on fixed -- come off fixed and suddenly raise or companies have to refinance and bonds have to be issued.

I mean, don't you foresee that if they don't have a slowdown, then you can't get the rates down. You can't get inflation down.


FISHER: I don't know if that's true. Let's look at America for a second. In America, inflation has come down about as fast as it ever has. And when you

look at remaining CPI, about two-thirds of that number is what's called imputed rent, which is actually nothing that anybody creates money on. It's

a calculated number, estimated to be what a person would pay in rent for the home that they own, which actually has nothing to do with real


The rest of it is actually already at 2.1 percent in America. There is less to go than people think. In Britain, it is much worse, and you're

absolutely right about that when you take the two great United's together, and you put them -- Britain is in a much worse position, and it is a longer

lag time, but I don't know that it's about mortgage rates so much.

QUEST: Okay. But then if you take the market, which of the two markets, the US or the UK, do you like the look of better?

FISHER: So let's step back. What's leading the market? It is a sluggish growth environment for the economy globally, and in both countries. And in

that environment, companies that can actually assuredly grow, do better in the marketplace, almost always.

What's been leading the market? High quality growth stocks, whether it's America's tech, whether it's continental Europeans' big, mega luxury

stocks. And the fact is, that continues to be the case.

The other point is, you know, we're actually now you know, where we were in the marketplace a year ago for the for the broad market domestically in the

world, domestically in America and for the world as a whole.

And the fact that that people don't think through is we've had all these rate hikes, and I hear your point, Richard. People say, it's going to take

more time, more time, more time. Well, that's not what they said before. How much more time is it going to take?

QUEST: There is an entire generation of people who are now learning what higher interest rates look like. I mean, let's face it, Ken, if you had

been told back in 2008 that rates would stay de facto zero for the best part of 15 years, we'd have said you're mad.

But the reality is they did, they have, and now, we have to adjust because we're not going back to zero.

FISHER: That's right, but also remember that these rates seem so high to that new generation. We are actually looking at rates that in the longer

term of history in your life and mine and before, we've seen many times before and had the world do okay with. There's just a little adjustment and

getting used to it.

QUEST: That's very good. Getting used to it. Absolutely. Not the first and it won't be the last. It's good to see you, Ken. It really is. Thank you

for making good thoughts.

FISHER: Thanks for having me back, Richard.

QUEST: Thank you, sir.

It is QUEST MEANS BUSINESS tonight from New York.

In a moment, just days after the US Secretary of State goes to China, Beijing is furious after President Biden calls President Xi Jinping a




QUEST: Ukraine's Armed Forces say there have been heavy fighting today in Donetsk as the fight to reclaim territory grinds along.

President Zelenskyy is urging patience. It is not a Hollywood movie, he says. He was speaking to the BBC when he said Ukraine's allies are turning

their attention to what comes after the war.

The British prime minister, Rishi Sunak and the US secretary of State, Antony Blinken have been attending a Ukraine Recovery Conference in London.

Both governments have made substantial new pledges of financial support joined by 400 global companies promising to boost investment in Ukraine.

The $411 billion it'll take, at least, according to the World Bank, it's a huge figure that will only get bigger as the conflict drags on.

Nic Robertson is in London.

Nic, the interesting thing about this conference and these recovery conferences, and I don't want to state sort of the bleeding obvious, but

the reality is Ukraine has to win for that recovery conference to be relevant.

NIC ROBERTSON, CNN INTERNATIONAL DIPLOMATIC EDITOR: It does, but part of the messaging is similar to the messaging we've had on the military front,

the international community, Ukraine's allies are in it for the long haul. They're going to stand by Ukraine, give it the military support it needs.

Okay, that's the other piece of the puzzle that's going on, on the ground in Ukraine.

But the other message to President Putin is, whatever it is you think you're doing in Ukraine, we're going to back Ukraine's future, this

investment, there's going to be special frameworks to help ensure underwrite potential business investments, because as you say, they're

going to be potentially hugely risky, a $411 billion economic black hole for rebuilding could get a whole lot deeper if the war doesn't go as

Ukraine plans.

But it is about messaging and it is about that substance of what can be provided, the support that governments just can't afford to do alone.

QUEST: Right. But Nic, you talk to the leaders privately and to their advisers privately. How are they going to handle the drip, drip, drip as

this goes on? I mean, the $55 billion that Ursula von der Leyen is talking about, you know, that old line about a billion here, a billion there and

pretty soon you're talking real money, but you're up to the real money level anyway. And as it goes on longer, are they really committed -- Nic.

ROBERTSON: They say they are, right, but they've got to bring the public with them. These are the voters. These are the taxpayers, these are the

people you, me and the others who are essentially giving the money to the government and the government is giving it to Ukraine.

So they recognize there is a political risk with that. Let's face it, Rishi Sunak is in an election next year. President Biden is in an election next

year. Ukraine is bound to be an issue if Ukraine hasn't won by then, voting public's taxpayers are going to be saying, hey, what's happening to our


So look, they know that they've got to diversify the political risk, as well as the economic liability of doing what they say they're going to do,

stay for the long haul and that comes down to trying to engage with businesses.

So I think what you're looking at here, it is an economic plan. It's a political plan. It's a military plan. It's a diplomatic plan. It tries to

be all of these things. Can they stay the long haul? Right now, no one knows. The reality is, Ukraine thinks it can still win the fight, Putin

thinks they can't, and it still has to be proven on the ground. That's when the businessmen may get their opportunities to invest.

Look, Ukraine was a hugely successful economic -- hugely economically successful country. It can be again. That's the message.

So there is worthwhile investments to be had. The war needs to be won first, Ukraine says it can.

QUEST: Nic Robertson in London. Sir, thank you.

And US President Biden tonight is getting ready to welcome India's prime minister to Washington.

Narendra Modi has been in New York. He has been participating at a UN event for International Yoga Day, and due for a dinner tonight, a State Dinner at

the White House. On Thursday, he is set to address a joint meeting of Congress, and there'll be a State Banquet, I beg your pardon, the banquet

is tomorrow.

The US is trying to strengthen its ties with India at the same time of course, as the easing tensions with Beijing, a relationship which now seems

to have hit a new low despite Antony Blinken's visit to try and improve things.


Now Beijing is furious reportedly after President Biden referred to his Chinese counterpart as a dictator. He was speaking during a fundraiser.

CNN's Kristie Lu Stout has more.


KRISTIE LU STOUT, CNN INTERNATIONAL ANCHOR AND CORRESPONDENT: On the back of a high level visit aimed at easing tensions with China, US President Joe

Biden made comments comparing Chinese leader, Xi Jinping to dictators and those comments did not go down well in Beijing.

China's Ministry of Foreign Affairs called them "extremely absurd and irresponsible." Biden made the remarks at a fundraiser in California on

Tuesday. He said Xi was embarrassed when the US shot down a Chinese spy balloon earlier this year, an observation he also made on Friday ahead of

US secretary of State, Antony Blinken's trip to China.

But Biden added this: "That's what's a great embarrassment for dictators when they didn't know what happened."

At a regular press conference on Wednesday, China's Ministry of Foreign Affairs spokesperson, Mao Ning said this: "The remarks are seriously

contradicted with basic facts, seriously violating diplomatic etiquette and seriously infringing on China's political dignity."

On Monday, Blinken and Xi agreed to stabilize the fraught US-China relationship. Xi welcomed "progress" during Blinken's two-day visit to

China and Blinken raised the need to re-establish direct military-to- military communications to reduce the risk of miscalculation, but China refused to do so citing US sanctions.

Blinken also said he did not receive a commitment from China to push back against North Korean weapons testing. The two powers also remain at odds

over a full slate of issues from trade to Taiwan.

Now, Blinken's visit appeared to lay the groundwork for more high-level meetings. On Tuesday, the White House said, it is too early to speculate on

a Biden-Xi meeting on the sidelines at the G-20 in New Delhi later this year, the White House says a potential meeting "will happen and it will

happen at the appropriate time."

But in light of recent comments, that appropriate time is even more unclear.

Kristie Lu Stout, CNN, Hong Kong.


QUEST: You and I continue on as the search for the Titan sub continues. Questions are being raised about the safety standards of the company about

the company that operated it, in a moment.




QUEST: I'm Richard Quest and we continue to update you with this missing submarine story and the safety concerns about the company that operate it.

The CEO of Copa Airlines from Panama is expanding in the U.S. We will find out where, why and how. But only after I've given you the news headlines

because this is CNN and, on this network, the news always comes first.


QUEST (voice-over): Fighting has erupted again in Sudan after a cease-fire agreement with the army and the Rapid Support Forces fell apart. Witnesses

say the RSF responded to army airstrikes with anti-aircraft fire north of the capital, Khartoum.

This is one of many cease-fires that has been brokered by the U.S. and Saudi Arabia, subsequently falling apart.

Rescue workers in France are searching for at least two people missing after a gas explosion and fire in central Paris. Dozens of people were

injured in the incident. The prosecutor says the explosion happened in a building that houses a fashion and a design school.

The Romanian judge in the Andrew Tate human trafficking and rape case has adjourned the proceedings until Friday. Tate is a self-proclaimed

misogynist and online influencer. He's been indicted along with his brother in Romania. The court is set to make a decision on house arrest for the

accused and set a date for a trial.


QUEST: It cost $0.25 million if you wanted to travel aboard the Titan down to the wreckage of the Titanic. And for that price, you don't even get a

seat. There is a toilet behind a curtain but your advice: to eat wisely before going on such a voyage.

The view is out of a 21-inch porthole and the trip is part of a growing business of wealthy adventurous tourism and the search continues for the

missing submarine. CNN has learned that at least two former employees of OceanGate Expeditions raised safety concerns some years ago. Tom Foreman is

in Washington.

We've had these concerns, Tom. We had the letter from the submersible experts.

It's a tough question today but was this an accident waiting to happen?

TOM FOREMAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, I think there are people in the industry who would say it might very well be. And when you combine it with

that tendency we've had in recent years toward this billionaire tourism, they may call a lot of this science but when you look at it closely, it's

only science if you can learn the science in three days.

And I'm not sure that's the kind of science we're talking about. The questions for this company, Richard -- and I really did want to talk about

this with you because it's quite interesting -- industry experts and people inside the company say they feel that this company, OceanGate, was pushing

too hard toward an experimental model.

And in doing so, that they were skirting around the established models of engineering around the world. An example of an established model, as you

may well know, with a pressure vehicle like this, it's not to be engineered just to go down to the Titanic.

It would be engineered to go down to three, four, five, six times as much pressure and survive. And after that, you would bring it up and either

totally refurbish it or entirely fabricate a new one, based on those standards. That is what engineering demands of this.

And the questions seem to be whether or not this company was following that kind of protocol or saying, no, we're innovative; we're cutting edge, we're

doing something completely different, which, in engineering, almost always involves a degree of risk that people are maybe not ready for and maybe

can't even anticipate very well, Richard.

QUEST: But Tom, the company, interestingly taking a point, admits exactly that, when it says that it wouldn't follow traditional certification

regulations. It said, we are innovating and the regulations would inhibit that innovation.

QUEST: Yes. And here's the thing. I think one of the complaints from the rest of the industry is like, yes.


FOREMAN: But if I watch your pitch reel, if I see the thing you're putting out there, you're saying clearly it's going to be safe, it's been worked

out with the University of Washington, NASA and Boeing. You are invoking some big names and saying, eh, there's some risk but let's go.

It would be very different if this company been saying all along, we consider this highly experimental. It is not adhering to the worldwide

standards. So if you want to embrace that risk, come on. But that's not what they were saying.

QUEST: Tom Foreman, we're grateful, sir. We'll talk more on that aspect of it in the days ahead. Thank, you so grateful.

The robust outlook for aviation is driving tens of billions of dollars at the Paris Air Show. The engine maker Pratt & Whitney says it has tallied

over 800 orders for its GTF commercial jet.

Air India finalized deals for 470 of its new Airbus and Boeing. And perhaps the big talking point, the competitor IndiGo has an advance order of 500

for the A320 series, which is by far and away the largest we've ever seen.

Other airlines are expanding on a smaller scale. The Central Latin American airline Copa increased their existing order of 15 planes for the 737 MAX.

Pedro Heilbron is the CEO and he is with me.

It's good to see you, sir. We are sorry of course, in Istanbul but it good to see you. I was reading an interesting article in "CAPA," the aviation

newsletter, who basically said, airlines in the Americas are wondering, how long can the good times go?

When does the demand driven boost stop?

What do you think?

PEDRO HEILBRON, CEO, COPA AIR: That's what we're all asking ourselves. One of the biggest surprises from the pandemic was how strong air traffic came

back, after what we all went through.

And now the question is, for how long it's going to last?

So we have 63 aircraft on order, MAX 737, Boeing, after the 15 additions that you mentioned. That's not 500 or anything like some of the other

players. We don't take that kind of risk. And we always have a plan B in case things slow down, which they well may.

You entered a few new routes into the U.S. Essentially, your airline balances constantly between the point to point to Panama and the 6-3 dom

(ph) over the hub of the Americas. And I'm wondering whether you see any shift in that strategy.

HEILBRON: So a lot of our competitors are building up their own hubs and putting in more direct flights.

We are still betting on our single hub of the Americas and Panama business model, strengthening the network, adding new cities and, in a way, taking

advantage of the strengths of some markets, like the U.S. market, as you well mentioned.

Since the pandemic we added Atlanta; next week, we're adding Baltimore- Washington and a few weeks after that we are adding Austin, Texas. It's going to be serving 14 cities in the U.S. and also adding spots in Latin

America and the Caribbean.

QUEST: What are the issues that you have to deal with?

We're looking at pictures of your latest iteration of the flatbed in business. But you need a consistency of product across the fleet, which you

don't currently fully have.

That has to be a priority, doesn't it?

HEILBRON: It is and you are right. I don't know how you figured that one out but you're totally correct.

We have the flatbeds on the MAX 9s in our drinks business class. We use that for our longer routes. We fly some of the longer 737 and narrow body

routes, like Panama-San Francisco, Panama-Buenos Aires. So we use the flat beds for that.

The rest of the fleet, we will have a standard product. That is not the case today but it will happen in the coming 1.5 years or so.

QUEST: And when you do your fleet, how tempting is it to add bigger planes?

How tempting is it to put in some larger aircraft to boost capacity?

HEILBRON: Yes, we have a glass box in our office with a loaded gun. And it says break only if Copa decides to buy wide bodies.

QUEST: You've answered the question there, sir, thank you. I'm very grateful. Always good to see you, thank you.

HEILBRON: Same here, Richard.


QUEST: It's QUEST MEANS BUSINESS tonight. In a moment, how a crate of 3,000 snails flying across the Atlantic could provide hope for the species'

survival in a moment.




QUEST: Throughout the week, Call to Earth, looking at the species that are facing a threat of extinction. Our guest editor Gerardo Garcia, has built

up a reputation for pulling species back from the brink. He does it through breeding and reintroduction programs at England's Chester Zoo and around

the world.

He's worked with the Komodo dragons of Indonesia, the giant frogs in Montserrat and pandas in Mexico. Now we join him as he helps the animal

kingdom's less acclaimed members.



UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE (voice-over): In a small collection of shipping containers just outside Chester Zoo in the U.K., Gerardo Garcia is looking

after a plethora of newts, frogs, salamanders and snails.

As head of exotherms (ph), he is in charge of almost 60 percent of the animals in the entire zoo. But often creatures that have almost zero

scientific information known about them.

DR. GERARDO GARCIA, CURATOR OF LOWER VERTEBRATES AND INVERTEBRATES, CHESTER ZOO (voice-over): Bermuda snails, in this case, where we tried at the

beginning of the project is a break about the longevity, the lifespan of the animals, number of clutches they can produce, the diet that is

required, the marking techniques that built a full portfolio, a great toolbox of conservation that helps when (INAUDIBLE) are developing the best

habitat in the world to release them back.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE (voice-over): Since 2013, Gerardo has carried out much of his fieldwork in Bermuda with two native species of snail, the greater

and lesser Bermudian land snails.

GARCIA (voice-over): Here they are.

These are the ones going to Bermuda?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE (voice-over): That's the (INAUDIBLE)

GARCIA (voice-over): And we're going to have 3,000?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE (voice-over): Yes, 3,000.

GARCIA (voice-over): A mix between adults and juveniles?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE (voice-over): Yes.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE (voice-over): Having grown up in containers at Chester Zoo, the snails are now making the 3,000 mile journey to Bermuda, where

wildlife ecologist Mark Outerbridge is waiting for them.

MARK OUTERBRIDGE, WILDLIFE ECOLOGIST (voice-over): Bermuda's biodiversity is -- has its roots, its origins with many other islands.


OUTERBRIDGE (voice-over): So we're talking about a relatively small land area and, in Bermuda's case, a very small land area in the middle of the


Unfortunately, we have evidence that we have lost species in Bermuda, they are extinct. One of my main roles in this job is to try and prevent further

extinctions. I started with about 80 odd species; the list is now over 300 that are on the protected species list.


UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE (voice-over): Starting with only 60 of those snails, Gerardo's team has since bred and released more than 100,000. One of the

biggest wildlife reintroductions in history.

Now he's returning to one of the release sites, Trunk Island (ph), to check on the progress and work out if the area will be suitable for releasing

their smaller cousins.

GARCIA (voice-over): Was it this, was the spot?

TREVOR RAWSON, CONSERVATION MANAGER, TRUNK ISLAND: So this is the first spot we have released the snails. We brought a bunch of palm fronds here.

We saw how much they were feeding off those on (INAUDIBLE) island (INAUDIBLE). So far, so good. Let's see if we can find any.

Yes, I can see one right now.

You see one --

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE (voice-over): A careful rummage through the fallen palm leaves reveals a thriving community of the greater Bermudian land snails

and indicates the perfect location to release the lesser snails.

GARCIA (voice-over): Many people would ask, why should I bother about snails?

And the thing is, why we bother about any other species that we have on the planet?

Every single one, animal and plants, every single one has a role to play. Maybe we don't know, we may don't understand. Maybe we underestimate the

role but everyone has a very important ecological role. But one of them is (INAUDIBLE) all the materials.

They need it. That is part of the ecosystem. You remove that piece of the system and it's not working functionally correct. So today may not perceive

the snails as important. But this is important for every other species that we have on the planet.

When we started the program with the Bermuda snails at the zoo, we were just right at the edge of extinction of the species. That is as close as we

were. Today, we can say that this is a process of recovery. We're going in the right direction.


QUEST: It's really good to hear a positive, a good note, in terms of that. Thank you.

Now to see more of Gerardo Garcia's in Bermuda, the full documentary, "Call to Earth: The Edge of Extinction" is this weekend. It is here, only on CNN.





QUEST: Global leaders are meeting in Paris tomorrow and, on Friday, I'll be discussing the financing of climate change.


QUEST (voice-over): The charge is being led by the French president, Emmanuel Macron, who wants to see debt reduced for low-income countries and

more money freed up for climate projects.

Boeing is teaming up with a company that's trying something new to deal with Equatic, carbon removal start-up, reportedly worth $50 million. The

deal, here's how it works.

Seawater is split by an electric current into hydrogen and oxygen. It permits CO2 to be removed. The treated water is mixed with fresh air and

draws carbon from the air. Lorenzo Corsini is the principal adviser at Equatic. He's with me from Vienna.

Thank you, sir. This is not carbon capture; this is carbon renewal. It turns into some sort of seashell, I believe.

But what do you do with it then?

LORENZO CORSINI, PRINCIPAL ADVISER, EQUATIC: Thanks for having me. Actually, Equatic uses seawater electrolysis, as you said, to capture CO2

directly from the atmosphere and store it as mineral carbonates in the sea.

So the CO2 ends up as calcium carbonate and basically, bicarbonates, that are stable and will permanently stay in the sea; at the same time, will

produce hydrogen as a clean fuel.

QUEST: Right.

What does it look like once it's been created?

A piece of rock?

A brick?

CORSINI: So the calcium carbonate is a powder, basically. It's not really used for anything. The main product is to remove the CO2 from the

atmosphere. The tangible product that is then used further is the carbon negative hydrogen, that can be used as a clean fuel.

QUEST: How easy will it be to do this to scale?

Never any shortage of great ideas but it's getting them to scale at a price that people, you know, that the market will pay that's been the problem, in

so many cases.

CORSINI: Yes, I think this technology has a big advantage in terms of scalability and cost because we are producing basically the carbon dioxide

removal credit at the same time, the hydrogen, on the same equipment, with the same (INAUDIBLE) investment, we're able to do this at very low cost.

And this is one of the requirements to actually bring this to scale. I think another advantage is that, we're not reliant on geological storage.

The sea is everywhere. So this can literally be done anywhere where there is the sea, where there's a sea connection and access to renewable power.

QUEST: I mean, it's an elaborate -- and I'm not demeaning it because it's any step is the right step. But this is an elaborate version of carbon

offset, in the sense that it's allowing somebody else to -- it's removing carbon that somebody else, elsewhere, is creating.

CORSINI: So the topic is complicated. The world is facing enormous challenges to reach the climate goals. And we need to reduce the greenhouse

gas emissions by something like 90 percent versus today's level. But the Owen (ph) versus the -- an IPCC report clearly states that this just will

not be sufficient. We need to actively remove gigatons of CO2 from the atmosphere.

QUEST: Right. But the fact here, of course, is it's aviation. And look, I've been a major, I think the airlines and the aviation have done a

terrible job of putting out only its 2 percent of global emissions, which is a relatively small amount compared to the others. But it has to go

further if it's to meet its net zero commitment by 2050.

So how far does this take that along that road?

CORSINI: Yes, so, this solution is not done for aviation. I mean, Boeing is our first client and were very happy about that. It capitalizes the

technology, that creates more confidence in the scalability for investors and (INAUDIBLE) to build the plants.

Ultimately, no one technology will solve the whole climate problem. So we will need many different technologies. But this one, I'm pretty convinced

that this can remove up to, yes, I mean, with our own company --


CORSINI: -- millions of tons of CO2 from the atmosphere in the late 2020s. And this is the first brick to develop this further and adopt it in a much

broader and wider way to scale it up to the gigaton scale that is needed to make a real difference for climate.

QUEST: I'm grateful, sir. Thank you, sir. Appreciate your time. Thank you.

Before I leave you, I'm going to let (INAUDIBLE) the Fed chair, Jerome Powell, told Congress the fight against inflation has a long way to go and

that's the response. When we started, of course, you could see we just barely.

But the market is disgruntled, I think is the best way to describe it. The triple stack shows that all the other major indices are lower. It's on the

big board that's having the worst of the day.

The tech stocks are lagging. We will take a Profitable Moment after the break.




QUEST: Tonight's Profitable Moment, it's good to be back in New York after several weeks of travels that took me to some extremely interesting places.

And of course, you'll see those on "World of Wonder."

But some things don't change. And that is the fight against inflation. If you look at the U.K., where there's likely to be at least two more interest

rate rises and probably the same in the U.S., you realize that the fight against inflation is far from over.

The problem is, we all thought it was going to be over and done by Christmas probably of last year. And the reality is, that what has happened

is exactly what the policymakers did not want. Inflation has become entrenched; sticky, to use the proper word.

Core inflation is embedded and you're seeing that left, right and center. It's going to become much more difficult to get rid of it.

However, when I was in the U.K. last week, indeed, yesterday, when I hear friends, colleagues and family all talking about the dreaded rise in their

mortgage rates when they come off fixed loans, I realize that, essentially, probably in the U.K. and maybe elsewhere, the only way to get rid of

inflation is probably to push the economy into recession.

Even at this late stage, if you can't get inflation down below 8 percent after all the increases that you've had, you're going to have to move

harder, further for longer and that, unfortunately, probably means recession.

And that's QUEST MEANS BUSINESS for tonight. I don't particularly enjoy saying that. I'm Richard Quest, back in New York. We'll cheer you up

tomorrow, I promise you. Whatever you're up to in the hours ahead, I hope it's profitable. "AMANPOUR" is next tonight.