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Quest Means Business

US Hiring Slows; Twitter Threatens To Sue Meta Over App, Threads; Yellen: US Seeks Healthy Competition With China; Zelenskyy Meets With Erdogan In Turkey; Dutch Court Lets Schiphol Cut Flights; 100 Days Since Journalist Arrested In Russia. Aired 3-4p ET

Aired July 07, 2023 - 15:00:00   ET



PAULA NEWTON, CNN HOST: We have two words for you Summer Friday. It is a pretty quiet end to the trading week for good reason. The trade, they are

just going pretty much sideways. Yes, it was up, it was down. Those are the markets and these are the main events.

US hiring slowed slightly last month. New data does little to change the picture for the Federal Reserve, though.

Twitter threatens to sue Meta over its new rival app.

And the Dutch government wins the court battle over reducing flights at Schiphol Airport. More European governments could soon follow suit.

Live from New York, it's Friday, July 7th. I'm Paula Newton in for Richard Quest and this is QUEST MEANS BUSINESS.

So tonight, some of the steam came out of the US labor market last month, but not enough, this is key, to curb bets that rates are going up again

soon. Two hundred and nine thousand jobs were added in June, that is the smallest advance in two-and-a-half years in fact, and yes, that kind of

sounds good, right, if you're a Fed policymaker wanting to cool the economy, but not so fast.

This is the key. The unemployment rate continues to fall from 3.7 percent in May to 3.6 percent last month. Where are the workers? And wages rose 4.4

percent in June, from a year earlier. And that points to a still tight labor market.

Matt Egan joins me now to parse all of these numbers. You know, we all kind of got a bit intrigued by that number yesterday, which really was a

standout. What is the difference? Because people sometimes remind us, right, one data point does not a trend make.

MATT EGAN, CNN REPORTER: Yes, that's right. Well, happy Friday, Paula.

Listen, the ADP number yesterday showed that the United States added half a million jobs, private sector jobs in June and that did trigger a lot of

fears on Wall Street, because that suggested the jobs market was actually heating up. I mean, that was twice as much as expected.

But we know that ADP report, it has got kind of a spotty track record as far as predicting the actual government numbers. Usually it understates

growth; here, it actually overstated it, apparently.

So it does seem like that ADP report was a bit of an outlier. It didn't really fit in with a lot of the other metrics that we see that suggests

that this red hot jobs market is cooling off, but not falling off a cliff.

And so I think that was the big takeaway from the jobs report today is that hiring has slowed, but this remains a pretty strong jobs market -- Paula.

NEWTON: Yes, and I guess, Matt, the issue is, where are the workers, right? When you see what has happened to the unemployment rate and I have

to ask you, in terms of the labor market itself being so tight, how does that impact really the Fed looking at these data points?

EGAN: Well, on the first question about where the workers are coming from, I think that was the big fear here, right? If you had said that the

US economy would still be adding three hundred, two hundred thousand jobs at this point, there was a real concern that that would overheat the

economy, because there simply weren't enough workers.

But what's changed is that the supply of workers has actually increased for two big reasons. One, immigration has rebounded; two, women are coming off

the sidelines. We know that COVID forced millions of people, millions of women, especially out of the workforce, but that has really started to


The participation rate for women aged 25 to 54 is at a record high here in the United States for the third month in a row, so that is very good news,

because it allows the jobs market to meet all of that demand.

Now on this question about what the Fed is going to do. Investors are still very confident that the Fed is going to resume raising interest rates very


At last check, the markets are pricing in a 92 percent chance that the Fed raises interest rates by a quarter of a percentage point later this month.

But, Paula, the hope is that maybe the Fed is getting towards the end of this rate hiking cycle.

NEWTON: Yes, it seems like a lot to hope for through this summer, but we'll wait and see given that as you said, that rate hike is coming for


Matt Egan for us. Have a great weekend. Really appreciate you going through the numbers for us.

EGAN: Thank you.

NEWTON: Now, it is not just the Fed in this inflation flight. We all remember that Christine Lagarde, right, the head of the European Central

Bank says in this high inflation era, we've seen company profit margins and wages rise at the same time.


That's not normal, she says, and she is warning. The ECB is watching and watching carefully. Let's quote her here: "Whether we are going to see a

twofold increase in margins and wages, a simultaneous increase in both would fuel inflation risks." And here's the key. ". and we would not stand

idly by in the face of such risks."

Diane Swonk is the chief economist at KPMG, and she joins me now from Chicago.

As data points go, right, Diane, if we could lean into this one. And thank you for being with us here on jobs day. What does it tell us about what to

expect in the second half of the year here? And yes, would you be able to work in Madame Lagarde's comments? There is no getting anything over on

that lady?

DIANE SWONK, CHIEF ECONOMIST, KPMG: No, and you know, I think the important thing starting with her first is what Europe is worried about

most, the European Central Bank is worried about most at this point in time is something they call a wage profit spiral.

We're not in the same situation in the United States, but they are starting to see that in Europe, and that is what they're worried about taking hold.

We can't let our guard down, and that is what the Federal Reserve is telling us that even as the job market cools a bit, it certainly isn't

chilly. And we're still seeing very good job numbers, we're still seeing good wage numbers. They are just slowing from the pace, the peak pace we

saw at 5.8 percent, after reopening to 4.4 percent.

Something else the Fed is watching is, where are wages accelerating? They are accelerating most in the service sector and leisure and hospitality. We

had two months of a re-acceleration in wages in that sector and that is something the Fed is watching closely, because of course, as we spend more

on services than goods, that input on costs could show up as more inflation.

But that is what the Fed is trying to hedge against and they are going to be raising rates not only in July, I think we're up for a September hike as

well, that said, we are close to a peak in the Fed funds rate, and I think the economy is going to cool as we get further as we get into the summer

and fall months of this year.

NEWTON: And you know, you answered my next question, because I just kind of wanted you to game out for the fed the second part of the year, how do

you think markets will react to that though?

SWONK: I think the markets are having a hard time. They keep front running the Fed in terms of rate cuts, and we don't expect to see the Fed

cut rates until May of 2024. That's still almost a year away and that is a long time for financial markets to wait for relief from the Federal


And remember, if inflation cools, as the Fed hopes it will, that means that real interest rates will actually rise, that is nominal interest rate minus

inflation will actually rise over the course of this year and into early 2024 making credit conditions all that much tighter.

That is something financial markets do not want to see, of course, unless it really is about snuffing out inflation. And I think there is this sort

of this wish out there that the Fed would be able to stop sooner, but the Fed is not willing to do that until they really see a cooling of underlying

service sector inflation as well.

NEWTON: And given what you've seen in the last month in terms of data, the likelihood of a recession now? You're saying it's more of a slowdown,

no recession at all?

SWONK: Well, I think we're luckier than certainly the European Union at the moment that fell into a technical recession over the winter. We are

still in positive growth, and the economy does look like it is cooling in a way that would be commensurate with what we hope to be, something that's

never happened, and that is a soft landing.

The problem is it has never happened, so there are many of us who are still sort of guarded on that. I guess, I'm in that camp. I do not have a full

blown recession in my forecast, but enough of a stalling to see the unemployment rate rise, which at the end of the day, that's what it's

really about, isn't it?

NEWTON: Yes, because it's going to make people feel like it is recessionary even if technically, the data doesn't point to that.

Diane, thanks so much for bringing -- for giving us your insight on the numbers and have a great weekend, really appreciate it.

Now, the US says it is sending cluster munitions to Ukraine as part of a military aid package and there is considerable controversy, of course, over

the use of those munitions which scatter bombs across large areas, and they can fail to explode on impact and pose long term risks similar to land


More than 100 countries, in fact, have outlawed them. National security adviser, Jake Sullivan has defended the decision to supply the weapons to

Kyiv. Listen.


JAKE SULLIVAN, WHITE HOUSE NATIONAL SECURITY ADVISER: There is also a massive risk of civilian harm if Russian troops and tanks roll over

Ukrainian positions and take more Ukrainian territory and subjugate more Ukrainian civilians because Ukraine does not have enough artillery. That is

intolerable to us.

Ukraine would not be using these munitions in some foreign land. This is their country they are defending. These are their citizens they are

protecting and they are motivated to use any weapons system they have in a way that minimizes risks to those citizens.


NEWTON: Now, some would say that's a distinction without a difference. We're going to have more on all of this later in the program.

Just ahead for us now, though, the US Treasury secretary walks a diplomatic tightrope as she works to defuse tensions with China during her trip to

Beijing. That's next.


NEWTON: Meta's new social app, Threads, surpassed 70 million -- I cannot believe this number -- 70 million signups in less than two days since

launching. That's the latest count from CEO, Mark Zuckerberg.

For comparison, rival Twitter last reported having about 237 million active users. Twitter is threatening to sue though -- it wants to sue Meta over

Threads, nicknamed by some, the Twitter killer.

It claims Meta poached its former employees to build the app.

CNN's Clare Duffy has the latest on this saga. You've been following it all for us and Clare, let's deal first with this, you know, perhaps legal


Is it just a letter? Or do we think this could turn into a full blown legal dispute?

CLARE DUFFY, CNN BUSINESS WRITER: Yes, at this point, Paula, it's not clear that this letter is going to become anything more than just a threat.

It's not clear that it's going to amount to an actual lawsuit.

What Twitter is alleging here is that Meta, you know infringed on its intellectual property, that it hired former Twitter employees who may have

had confidential company information, but it is not clear whether there is more to this. The letter is sort of lacking in detail.

And look, I mean, the look of Twitter, the feel of Twitter is not exactly any kind of secret to anyone. And so it's not clear, I think that this is

going to amount to anything.

Meta has dismissed this. A Meta spokesperson said that no former Twitter employees worked on Threads, but I do think this shows that Twitter and

that Musk are really threatened by Threads, as well they should be. I mean that 70 million user signups in less than two days is really remarkable.

NEWTON: Yes, I am going to steal a line from you to go through the 70 million users. Is Elon Musk, the best thing that ever happened to Mark

Zuckerberg? I mean, if you think about his reputation, right? You tell us, given all the controversy that Meta and Facebook and Instagram have been

through, social media platforms in general, you know, two days 70 million users?

DUFFY: It really is very interesting. I mean, you do -- Meta has this sort of troubled history of privacy violations, of allegations of being

sort of complicit in election meddling.

And so, it is interesting and in fact, I've noticed a number of Threads users commenting on this today, posting that they are actually surprised to

be joining another app run by Mark Zuckerberg, run by Meta or people who said they were never actually on Facebook or Instagram, but really wanted

to get off Twitter.


And so now, they are joining Threads, and now, they had to join Instagram in order to join Threads. And so, I do think it is interesting, in this

battle between the two billionaires, that people are having to sort of make a choice. And of course, this all comes as Musk and Zuckerberg have talked

about actually engaging in a real cage fight, but we may get to see who is the real winner in terms of their social networks fairly soon.

NEWTON: Am I the only person on the planet who have no interest in a cage fight between these two billionaires? But that's okay, I digress.

Let's see where we are next Friday, Clare, all right? It's already been a very eventful week. We'll check in again.

Thanks so much, Clare. Appreciate it.

DUFFY: Thanks, Paula.

NEWTON: Now, the US surgeon-general recently issued a warning that social media carries a profound risk of harm to mental health of adolescents and


Now, hundreds of families are suing tech giants alleging they are contributing to a mental health crisis among youth. In a report on the

lawsuits for CNN's new show "The Whole Story" with Anderson Cooper, Audie Cornish spoke to a mother named Tammy, who is among those suing. Listen.


AUDIE CORNISH, CNN ANCHOR AND CORRESPONDENT (voice over): What Tammy (ph) didn't know at the time, was that Selena had figured out how to block her

mother from seeing her online life.

TAMMY, SELENA'S MOTHER: She had saved her fingerprint and I didn't know she had saved it in my phone. So like if I fall asleep or whatever, she

would use her fingerprint to get in and change the settings.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Once the pandemic had started, she was posting where she became more recluse, she was focused on how many likes she has, how

many followers she has, how many followers she's losing, who's messaging her.

CORNISH (voice over): During the pandemic, when Selena's school and social life moved online, she was regularly messaging with people on these

apps. Some she knew, some she did not.

TAMMY: There were adults that would reach out, which I was not aware of, until not too long ago. Men, they knew she was a minor.


NEWTON: Now, I know so many families will be interested in this. Be sure to tune in for the new episode of "The Whole Story" with Anderson Cooper,

one whole story, one whole hour, airs Sunday at 8:00 PM Eastern and Pacific only on CNN.

Now the US wants healthy competition with China. That doesn't end in a winner takes all standoff and that is what US Treasury secretary, Janet

Yellen told China's premier during a meeting in Beijing Friday. She also met with business leaders saying a separation of US-Chinese commerce would

hurt both countries. Listen.


JANET YELLEN, US TREASURY SECRETARY: The United States does not seek a wholesale separation of our economies. We seek to diversify and not to

decouple. The decoupling of the world's two largest economies would be de- stabilizing for the global economy, and it would be virtually impossible to undertake.

NEWTON: Okay, Marc Stewart has been following the story of Yellen's three-day visit very closely. Listen.


MARC STEWART, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Even though Janet Yellen is secretary of Treasury and an accomplished economic scholar, this trip to China is part

of a broader effort to try to cool things down amid a very tense relationship between the United States and China.

On Friday, she did spend time in her comfort zone meeting with many Chinese economic leaders. She met with Liu He, former vice premier and her previous

Chinese counterpart in what has been called a meeting of old friends.

Yellen also sat down with members of the US business community that is invested in China. She expressed some concern about some of the practices

from Beijing.

YELLEN: I've been particularly troubled by punitive actions that have been taken against US firms in recent months.

I'm also concerned about new export controls, recently announced by China on two critical minerals used in technologies like semiconductors.

STEWART: With that said, Yellen recognizes the relationship between the two nations stressing she doesn't want the two countries to decouple from

each other.

In the past, she has felt the two should work together on specific and urgent global challenges, a sentiment shared by China's Premier Li Qiang,

who told her that both countries should seek consensus on key issues in their bilateral economic relationship.

Marc Stewart, CNN, Tokyo.


NEWTON: So to add to this, Beijing's crackdown on internet firms continues with nearly $1 billion fine for billionaire Jack Ma's ANT Group.

Now, doing business in China hasn't been easy for any tech companies of late, since a clampdown began in 2020 with new regulations Those forced ANT

Group to suspend it's a $37 billion IPO, you'll remember this just days before its launch.


Friday, China's security regulator said it has determined that the Alibaba affiliate breached corporate governance and other rules.

All right to discuss all of this now, I'm joined by Ambassador Gary Locke, who was US Secretary of Commerce before serving as America's envoy to

China, from 2011 to 2014.

I can only imagine what you're thinking on the sidelines right now, given your experience. You know, the US-China business relationship has pivoted

so much since you were there.

Yellen was arguably not on a charm offensive, right? I mean, the Biden administration is turning up the heat on China, especially when it comes to

things like computer chips and AI.

So what do you think she's trying to accomplish there? And is it even possible?

GARY LOCKE, FORMER US SECRETARY OF COMMERCE: Well, she really has a tough job ahead of her. China has announced export controls or restrictions on US

access, and in fact, access by the entire world to some of these very rare earths, these very specialized minerals that we use in making sophisticated


In some ways, that's retaliation by China against the United States for limiting the type of chips that China can receive.

So Secretary Yellen is really walking a very fine tightrope, expressing concerns about the restrictions that China is putting on things that we

need in America, even though we are putting restrictions on what China can receive from the United States.

We need to really re-establish dialogue, and try to bridge some of these differences, acknowledge the differences that we have, whether it's on

human rights, whether it's on the unfair trade practices that China imposes on foreign companies, and especially US companies, but at the same time,

how do we protect our national security and keep some of this high -- very sophisticated high technology that we make from being used by China for

military purposes?

NEWTON: And yet, I do hear the concern in your voice -- how do we avoid a tit-for-tat retaliatory cycle here? Because China has said, look on chips,

anything we have the power to do, including, as you said, put those export controls on critical metals and minerals are going to do it?

LOCKE: Yes, and that is why it's a very tough situation, because China's saying, well, why are you stopping the sale highly sophisticated US chips

coming into China? If you're going to do that, well then, we'll just limit the materials that you need to make chips for yourself or anybody else.

So, you know, the world relies so much on these rare minerals coming from China. Other countries produce it, but not to the volume that China does,

and even if we were to try to develop the alternative sources, it could take years for the United States to find the suitable alternative sources.

NEWTON: Yes, not for lack of trying, as they are running all over the world right now trying to speed up that kind of procurement in different


I want to pull out from this economic discussion though for a moment and talk about Yellen's participation in a larger push by the administration to

stabilize, right, this relationship with China.

I mean, we can say de-risk all we want when it comes to commercial and business ties, but we are all looking forward to a de-risking in

geopolitical terms, how best to find that common ground with China.

LOCKE: Well, there are many things where we can cooperate with China and where China would like to cooperate with us. In fact, the world wants

cooperation between the United States and China, excuse me, for instance, climate change.

The United States produces more greenhouse gases per person than any other nation, China produces more by volume, because it's four times the size of

our population and combined, we are the two largest emitters of greenhouse gases.

And so if China were to make a significant reduction in greenhouse gases, and we do nothing, China's efforts and sacrifices will be for naught and

the same thing with the United States. If we are able to dramatically go to electric vehicles, reduce the use of fossil fuels, et cetera, et cetera,

but China does nothing, then all of our sacrifices and all of our investments make no sense.

And so the world is looking for leadership and cooperation between both China and the United States and that extends to, for instance, stopping

North Korea from developing a nuclear weapon, or finding a cure for some of the most dreaded diseases or even just fighting global terrorism.

There are so many areas in which we can cooperate and perhaps if we can start working on those common initiatives that are of benefit to both the

United States and China and the world that can help create a pathway for discussion and negotiations over some of these economic trade issues.


NEWTON: You know I take your point on climate. I know John Kerry will likely have a trip to China coming up soon, but when you get to matters of

defense, I mean, the secretary of Defense here, Lloyd Austin can't even reach his Chinese counterpart on the phone, at least not that we know of

right now.

I want to ask you, because you definitely were the envoy in China at a completely different time when there was outreach, certainly the friendship

with China looked to be building. We are in a completely different stage now.

How optimistic are you that this pivot will actually happen and happen for the betterment of really the entire world because no one wants a conflict

between these two countries?

LOCKE: We definitely need cooperation and that is why Secretary of State Blinken's visit was important, followed up by Treasury Secretary Yellen,

that's important. John Kerry's talks with the Chinese on climate change, that's important, because the Chinese are seeing the effects of climate

change themselves. And so many of their cities along the coast are jeopardized by rising sea levels.

So we've got to keep working on these issues. We're not going to see immediate results, and part of the problem is that we're heading into an

election in the United States in which both Democratic and Republican candidates for the Congress as well as the president want to show a

toughness toward China. That's a very delicate act.

NEWTON: Yes, and you make such a good point about the political season here upcoming and how difficult it is to make any breakthroughs while that

is going on.

Ambassador Locke, we will leave it there for now. Thanks so much.

LOCKE: Thank you.

NEWTON: Coming up for us, the Dutch government has won a legal battle to cut flights at Amsterdam's airports. You could imagine airports aren't

happy about it. We will have that next.


NEWTON: Hello, I'm Paula Newton, and there is more QUEST MEANS BUSINESS in a moment when Ukrainian President Zelenskyy is in Turkey as the Black

Sea grain deal is set to expire.

And a Dutch court rules that one of Europe's busiest airports can cut flights.

Before that though, the headlines this hour.


Israel says two Palestinian militants have been killed in a raid in the West Bank town of Nablus. Palestinian health officials say three others

were wounded. That's according to Israeli intelligence officials. The two were suspects and shooting attack targeting in Israeli police car.

Kenyan police fire tear gas at crowds protesting tax hikes Friday. Human rights groups say dozens of people were arrested in Nairobi and other

cities. Opposition Leader Raila Odinga called for the protests saying many people can't even afford basic goods. The government says the tax hikes

will help fund debt repayments.

It's now been 100 days since Evan Gershkovich was arrested in Russia. He's the correspondent for The Wall Street Journal who is accused of espionage.

What his family and the Wall Street Journal really statements today calling for his release. The Journal also said it continues to work with the U.S.

government to gain his freedom.

Britney Spears has filed a police report after claiming she was hit in the face by a bodyguard in Las Vegas. Now she was trying to get the attention

of young basketball phenom Victor Wembanyama in Las Vegas. Police have now confirmed that they are not pressing charges.

So, Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy has certainly had a busy day in Turkey right now. He's meeting with President Recep Tayyip Erdogan on the

agenda. Of course, that Black Sea Grain Deal with Russia and its sector set to expire this month. We're also just days away from that NATO Summit in

Lithuania. Turkey, one of the deciding votes on whether Sweden joins that alliance and there's also Ukraine's own NATO ambitions.

CNN's Nada Bashir is following all of this for us from London. And Nada, Zelenskyy has his work cut out for him on many issues. I mean, Turkey's

president has proven that he can hold firm lines on quite a few of these issues. Are we expecting any breakthroughs?

NADA BASHIR, CNN INTERNATIONAL REPORTER: Well, there's certainly lots on the agenda. And perhaps no breakthrough is expected today. But we do know

that they are in the midst of those discussions at the moment. It is a little behind schedule. We are still waiting on that press conference from

President Zelenskyy and President Erdogan. Of course, lots of new agenda. The Grain Deal, the clock is ticking. That is set to expire in just 10


And as you mentioned there, real focus on the upcoming NATO Summit. And we do know the President Zelenskyy has been pushing his international allies

and partners on getting stronger commitments, more concrete commitments on the future of Ukraine's potential accession to the NATO alliance in line

with questions around Sweden's future accession to the NATO alliance.

And we do know, of course, that NATO allies have, on the whole been in favor of Sweden's accession. We, of course back in May of last year, as

Sweden had expressed its hope to join the Alliance alongside Finland but Finland was given the green light from Turkey back in April. Sweden,

however, still has some hurdles to get through. We do know that of course, talks have been ongoing between delegations from Turkey and Sweden to try

and clear some of those hurdles.

There is still though from President Erdogan and the Turkish Government, a lot of reservation, much of that focused on the Swedish government's

approach when it comes to what the Turkish government considers to be terrorist groups in Sweden, namely, groups allied to the Kurdistan Workers

Party. And there has been a lot of hesitation on the part of the Turkish government as well in relation to accusations, allegations that the Swedish

government has taken a soft, relaxed approach to far-right Islamophobic groups in Sweden.

So, these are all key concerns. Those talks, very much still ongoing. But the hope, of course, for those in the NATO alliance, certainly for NATO

Secretary General Jens Stoltenberg is that in this upcoming NATO Summit, we could see some positive developments for Sweden. But when it comes to

Ukraine, of course, Zelenskyy may well be hoping for some positive breakthroughs. But at this stage, it seems unlikely that there will be any

movement on that front.

NEWTON: And before I let you go, how crucial is the extension of that Grain Deal?

BASHIR: Well, that will certainly be a key discussion. President Erdogan has positioned himself as a mediator. And of course, he plays a crucial

role because unlike his other NATO allies, he has maintained cordial relations with President Putin. When we look at the figures, I mean, this

deal was signed and it was a breakthrough landmark agreement signed back in the summer of last year.

Since that point, we have seen the export of more than 30 million metric tons of agricultural goods, namely grain and fertilizer coming from

Ukraine, Southern Black Sea ports, and there are a number of countries that are hugely dependent on Ukraine's grain exports. And of course, this has

already been extended. It actually expired back in May. The hope now is that this will be more of a long-term extension.

But we have heard reservations expressed by the Kremlin, by the Russian Foreign Ministry and there is significant concern that President Putin and

the Kremlin may not be as cooperative this time around.


So, President Erdogan certainly has his work cut out for him. It is, of course anticipated that President Putin and President Erdogan may well be

engaging in talks on that front as well. That was certainly suggested by the Russian Foreign Ministry earlier this week, but we heard from the

Kremlin spokesperson Dmitry Peskov speaking earlier this morning to journalists telling them that the Kremlin will be keeping a very close eye

on today's meeting between Erdogan and Zelenskyy.

President Erdogan, of course, has been a backer of Ukraine. He has supported Ukraine, both on the diplomatic front and the military front. But

of course, those relations with Russia will prove crucial in any negotiations on securing a further renewal of this Black Sea Grain Deal.

NEWTON: OK. And we await to the outcome of that meeting there in Istanbul. Nada Bashir for us. Thank you.

Now the Netherlands has received a green light to cut the number of flights at one of Europe's busiest airports. An Amsterdam court made the ruling

after Schiphol Airport and multiple airlines challenged government orders to reduce traffic there, the government called the ruling an important step

in achieving a new balance between the economic importance of an internationally well-connected airport on the one hand, and the interest of

residence and the environment on the other hand.

Airline KLM said we are disappointed. It is currently unclear when, how and in what way the ruling will be implemented. Joining me now is Simon Calder,

he is travel correspondent for The Independent. So, I have to ask you. Given that this ruling is now coming down. What practical effect you

expected to have?

SIMON CALDER, TRAVEL CORRESPONDENT, THE INDEPENDENT: Well, look, nobody you've indicated quite knows what is going to happen. This is a really

serious issue here in Europe. I'm joining you from London Heathrow. And the home of British Airways, of course. KLM is the home airline in Amsterdam,

just 200 miles away from here. You've also got big hubs, of course in Frankfurt in Paris, Charles de Gaulle and increasingly actually in


And for one country's government to say, in order to align our climate change goals, with international aviation, we are effectively putting the

brakes on the -- on of the big European hubs. It's being taken very seriously. Not just the course by KLM which is part of the Air France

group, but also by the International Air Transport Association, which is a gas that any country's government should do this at a time when, of course,

aviation is trying to recover from the terrible effects of the COVID pandemic in which airlines lost hundreds of billions of pounds.

So, the Dutch government set out very clearly that it wanted to find that balance. Do you think that this will go to other countries, perhaps even

principally in Britain, where you are maybe perhaps not by the Tory government, but that there will be pressure that the days of very cheap

travel or connections in Europe should come to an end? Because they do not reflect the cost and the environment?

CALDER: Well, yes. I mean, there is a huge, much wider argument to be had about the extent to which travel is -- travel is --

NEWTON: Go ahead, Simon. We can hear you.

CALDER: Yes, OK. I'm so sorry. Yes. Forgive me. Yes. There is a wide argument about the extent to which taxation should be used in order to be

able to deter the amount of travel that people are doing by air, particularly on short distances. And we've seen some action in France, also

reducing the number of short domestic flights. But the idea, I think, here in the U.K. that we would see anything that would diminish the role of

Heathrow, I think, is unlikely.

And of course, there is going to be great celebration in places like Istanbul where the new airport actually has just set a record for the

number of flights operated from an airport in Europe ever. They have beaten now Frankfurt. So, there's a battle of the hubs going on. And the sense I'm

getting from lots of people in aviation is that very frankly, the Dutch have kind of decided to hobble their aviation industry without really

knowing what else is going on.

And bear in mind, of course, that the Dutch are doing pretty well. They've good high speed rail connections from Schiphol Airport in Amsterdam, which

actually are doing something towards reducing the number of domestic flights.

NEWTON: Yes. And as you point out, this is very much a domestic story in the Netherlands. And, you know, the slack might be picked up from other

airports. But do you see -- do you see this being an overall regulatory issue in Europe writ large?

CALDER: Well, it is possible. I'm sure that Brussels, home of the European Union is looking at this.


I think what is happening in the Netherlands could be repeated possibly in the Scandinavian countries maybe in Copenhagen in Stockholm or Oslo. But

they are actually much smaller in terms of being international hubs. No, I think the whole issue now really turns to -- OK, this is going to happen.

How is it going to happen? And as your introduction that made absolutely clear, nobody quite knows what this looks like to all the airlines equally

sharing the pain.

Does KLM actually bear a disproportionate burden because it has all the connecting traffic? There's so unanswered questions. Meanwhile, of course,

some there's plenty of thriving budgets and low-cost airlines in Europe, in particular, Ryanair, which has never flown to or from Amsterdam and he's

perfectly happy. Joining many, many dots within Europe, and it's just ordered 300 new aircraft in order to help it do that.

NEWTON: Yes. Such a good point that the appetite for that travels throughout Europe remains. It'll be interesting to see what impact it also

has on ticket prices. Simon, thanks so much. Have a great weekend to wherever you're going or just arrived from. Appreciate it. Thanks so much.

CALDER: Thank you.

NEWTON: Now, shark watching via drone? No, it's not something out of shark week, at least not here. It's how New York is protecting beachgoers after a

string of biting incidents. Incidents you will want to see this. So, what's causing the surge? We'll tell you.


NEWTON: A special focus for our series Call to Earth. We'll look at species facing the threat of extinction. Today we join our guest editor Geraldo

Garcia in Bermuda where he was joined by birding expert, Jeremy Medeiros. To hear the remarkable story of a native species of seabird that was

presumed extinct more than 300 years ago. Listen.



GERARDO GARCIA, HEAD OF ECTOTHERMS, CHESTER ZOO: Yes. Oh my god, I'm going to destroy your database now.

MADERIOS: No, no, no.

GARCIA: In five minutes.

MADERIOS: I have confidence in you. OK. There we go. So, it's about 75 days old, 78 days old now. And it'll fledge at about 90 to 100 days. Hey there,

maybe. So. Yes.


So, here he is. He's still in very much -- his shedding his down like mad right now. You can see it's just blowing off.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE (voiceover): This is a Cahow. A nocturnal seabird and like several other creatures on Bermuda, it is a Lazarus species risen from

the dead.

It once numbered in the hundreds of thousands. But the Cahow population was wiped out after human settlement in the early 1600s. And the species was

presumed extinct for 300 years. Then, in 1951, a group including 15-year- old Bermuda school boy David Wingate, made a dramatic discovery on a tiny rock in the middle of the ocean.

DAVID WINGATE, BERMUDA ORNITHOLOGIST: Being young, of course, I was able to bend over and look into crevices a little easier than the others. And about

half an hour into our search, we found what was obviously an occupied borough, and we actually found three. I will never forget when the bird was

extracted, I mean, yes, we, you know, rediscovering a bird which was thought extinct 300 years ago.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE (voiceover): From that moment on, David has devoted his life to protecting the Cahows creating artificial burrows to keep out the

aggressive white-tailed tropic birds. But hurricanes posed a significant threat to the Cahow habitats. And it became clear something more would need

to be done if they were to survive.

WINGATE: I recognized quite early, due to the size of the islands, through these islands could be over wash completely when you get a bad hurricane.

So, it was a pretty critical situation.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE (voiceover): This solution, built a new home and the larger and safer non-such Island and hoped that the Cahow colony would be

enticed to make the move.

MADERIOS: I think when I first started working with David in the 1980s, they were at that point around about 30 pairs. When he retired and I took

over the program, I think they were up to 53 pairs at that point. And now this year, they -- in 2023, they reached 164 breeding pairs, which sounds

wonderful, but it's still a really, really tiny population. Nonsuch has the capacity we think for a five to 6000 pairs just on it.

Right now he -- his -- you can see his wingspan spanning. He's developing all of his flight feathers primary.

You take over us to foster parents. You feed them daily, you weigh them, you measure them, give them vitamins the last week before they depart. They

come out every night because they're nocturnal seabird and they imprint on that area. They go to high points and they look around and it's like

they're memorizing exactly where they are in the planet.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE (voiceover): When the chicks finally take flight, they stay out at sea for three to five years. But Jeremy is already seeing the

results of the translocation.

MADERIOS: A hundred and five birds. I moved over five years, 50 percent of them return to nonsuch. It was such a relief because I had sleepless night.

WINGATE: There isn't any other species that I can think of that has gone from such rarity to such rapid increasing, we have no excuse not to use all

these tools for conservation. Because it's a matter of life and death, not for this -- to us but for the planet.


NEWTON: Quite a success story there. See more of Garcia's work in Bermuda. Tune into the full documentary Call to Earth: The Edge of Extinction that

airs this weekend on CNN.



NEWTON: So, dozens of new shark monitoring drones will join beach goers in New York this summer. The state is ramping up its patrol after five people

were bitten along its Long Island beaches in just two days. The string of attacks is part of a greater surge right across the United States. And of

course, this is just as summer tourism season kicks off. Polo Sandoval has been following this story closely. And he joins us now live from Robert

Moses State Park in Babylon, New York.

And there have been shark sightings there, Polo. I'm not sure if it's by you. But clearly, it's alarming people. Has it been affecting tourism


POLO SANDOVAL, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes. There was actually one just off the coast yesterday according to officials here. Look, it's still Fourth of

July week. So, you saw millions of Americans throughout the country, taking to some of the country's beaches throughout into the weekend. But for some

Long Islanders that will come with an added concern that certainly doesn't dominate their day at the beach, but it plays out in the back of their



GEORGE GORMAN, REGIONAL DIRECTOR, NEW YORK STATE PARKS: We have more surveillance, more lifeguards out there than we've ever had in the past.

SANDOVAL (voice over): Five suspected shark attacks within 24 hours leading officials to ramp up shark patrols along New York's coast.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It's their territory and we're invading their territory.

SANDOVAL (voice over): The incidents happened at five different locations on Long Island beaches. On July 3rd officials say a 15-year-old girl was

bitten while swimming at Robert Moses State Park. And a 15-year-old boy says he was bit at Kismet beach.

PETER BANCULLI, SHARK ATTACK VICTIM: My first reaction to when the shark grabbed my foot was to immediately get out the water and get help.

SANDOVAL (voice over): Then on July 4th, three, four incidents this time all involving adults at three separate locations, all five swimmers had

non-life-threatening injuries. CNN obtained this drone footage from Robert Moses State Park beach on July 4 of what was initially described as sand

sharks. Deciding to lay the beach is opening, but state park officials now say the animals were likely been other species of fish according to The New

York Times.

GORMAN: What we're hearing from the shark experts is that these baits are undoubtedly a mistake. They think the sharks think they're feeding on bait

fish or bunker fish. And that's why these are bites.

SANDOVAL (voice over): That's why park officials say having an eye in the sky is a critical asset.

LT. ALEX GOODMAN, NEW YORK STATE PARKS: The drones are much more inexpensive to fly, they can be deployed very rapidly, we are entering the

natural habitat of these animals. And there's always the potential for risk. But with all the assets and manpower that we have employed here, the

idea is to keep people as safe as possible.

SANDOVAL (voice over): And it's not just the Northeast that's on heightened alert. This was the scene Monday in Pensacola Beach, Florida where shark

was spotted swimming near the shore. It will, may seem like we're seeing more shark encounters. Experts say that isn't necessarily the case.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: A lot more documentation occurs because everybody's got a cell phone. So, we see more of these things. So, they come into our

living rooms really quickly.


SANDOVAL (on camera): Back on the New York State Line. It's also important to add some context here from officials saying that every year more

Americans die from lightning or get this, Paula, even bee-related incidents than shark encounters. So that's important to consider but just like any

other incident, this is preventable. Officials here recommending people stay close to the shore and stay close together.

NEWTON: Bees, Polo? Honestly, bees? It just so --


NEWTON: It's so dramatic when you hear --

SANDOVAL: Bee sting related.

NEWTON: I know. But I -- and I get that. Obviously, people have allergic reactions to that and all. And everything but my issue is that what more

can be done here because everybody wants to have that carefree. I mean the beach behind you looks gorgeous. People just want to kind of go in and be

carefree about it.

SANDOVAL: Paula, we wish you were here. It's an absolutely stunning day.


So, folks are not trying to discourage anybody from jumping in the water. So, part of that is New York Governor Kathy Hochul today make an

announcement that they will be sending not only drone technology to some of New York State's coastal communities, but also the training, they need to

be able to deploy that technology and be able to fly over that coastline and identify any potential threats below.

So, that's really something that's been building up. Even since last summer when we saw a quite a busy shark summer but like you talked to Long

Islanders, they are strong, they are already folks they say, they've known about sharks their whole life. They just want a heads up if something's out


NEWTON: Absolutely. We all do. And so, we'll keep an eye up. But yes, I would love to join you as well. Polo shark or no shark. Polo Sandoval for

us starting this weekend early. I hope -- thanks so much. Appreciate that update.

Now we were just moments left to the trade on Wall Street. Not as busy as you may think considering it was a jobs day, but hey, we'll have those

final numbers for you and that closing bell right after this.


NEWTON: U.S. added 209,000 jobs in June that slightly below what economists had expected. And in fact, it is the lowest number since December 2021. You

want to have a look at how investors reacted. The Dow opened lower, rose in the afternoon and now get this, it's falling sharply. I'd be wagering that

that's on volume. I want to take a look at those Dow components now. Caterpillar leading the way there.

Chevron also higher. Oil prices reached in fact a six-week high on supply concerns. Not a great day though for health stocks. You see them they're

tumbling a bit. Merit is right at the bottom of the list.

OK. Everyone, have a great weekend. That was QUEST MEANS BUSINESS. I'm Paula Newton. Right now, though we are joining a press conference from U.S.

President Joe Biden. It's in progress right now. And he's talking about efforts to lower health care costs for Americans. Listen.

JOE BIDEN, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Some healthcare providers are trying to get around the rule by putting in place -- putting in place a --

the rule we put in place by prevent -- to prevent this surprise billings. The travel industry figured out -- how to -- be figured out how to -- how

to charge customers $90.00 a night resort fees for hotels and our resorts. You think I'm kidding.

Hospitals are trying to do something similar by using different designations to charge their higher out-of-network rates or charging hidden

facility fees for going to a doctor's office in a building owned by the hospital. And some hospitals are working with credit card companies to vote

and medical credit cards. Sounds good. Consumers can use these cards to borrow money to pay for the procedures and get charged but -- in hospital

but they get charged higher interest rates as a result of that.

It's wrong. It's wrong. Today my administration is closing this surprise billing loopholes.

BORIS SANCHEZ, CNN ANCHOR: We've been listening to President Biden speaking at the White House fighting through some audio issues at different points

it seem.


But the president focusing on his effort to lower healthcare costs for many Americans. Eliminating what he described as surprise bills.