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Quest Means Business

Biden Meets With Top Ally Sunak Ahead Of Gathering; Kremlin: Putin Met Yevgeny Prigozhin Days After Insurrection; CEO Of Weapons Maker Rheinmetall Speaks To CNN; Stoltenberg: Turkey Has Agreed To Back Sweden NATO Bid; Norse Atlantic Airways Celebrates One Year; Disgraced U.S. Gymnastics Doctor Stabbed In Prison. Aired 3-4p ET

Aired July 10, 2023 - 15:00:00   ET



RICHARD QUEST, CNN INTERNATIONAL HOST: It is a slow start with a strong finish for the Dow as you and I started a new week together. Up 187 points

and we've still got an hour of trading. It is comfortably in the green. That's where the markets are looking and the events of the day we're

talking about.

President Biden has arrived in Europe, just as Turkey has thrown NATO into crisis, tying Sweden's membership to Turkey's EU accession.

The former AT&T CEO, Randall Stephenson has cut ties with the PGA Tour in protest against the LIV Golf deal.

And Norse Atlantic marks its first anniversary. The chief executive will be with us to tell me how he is making low cost long haul work in an era of

higher fares.

Well, I'm in New York. New week begins, Monday, July the 10th. I'm Richard Quest and yes, I mean business.

Good evening.

President Biden has landed in Lithuania, as he prepares for a high-stakes NATO Summit. The US president spent most of the day in the United Kingdom,

where he agreed to strengthen relations with the British prime minister, Rishi Sunak.

The two men discussed the need to support Ukraine and went over the preparations for NATO Summit, which starts tomorrow.

After the meeting, the president met with King Charles at Windsor Castle. It is the first time the two had met since Charles ascended the throne.

President Biden told the UK prime minister that as far as he was concerned, the US-UK partnership is unshakable.


JOE BIDEN, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: I couldn't be meeting with a closer friend and a greater ally. We've got a lot to talk about.

Our relationship is rock solid between the United States, Great Britain. And I look forward to our discussions.


QUEST: At the NATO Summit, well, a wrench was thrown into it. Leaders will be talking about Sweden's bid to join the Alliance, and now this new major

wrinkle. Out of nowhere, out of the blue, Turkey has threatened to stand in the way unless it is given a path to join the European Union.

This was an extraordinary surprise move from the Turkish president who linked the two issues before he arrived in Vilnius.

Turkey and the EU launched membership talks in 2005, during President Erdogan's first term as prime minister. They soured 11 years later, in '16,

after he clamped down on a failed coup.

The Turkish president now says Turkey has been waiting at the gates of Europe for 50 years.

Nic Robertson is in London. Nic is with me.

Now, the German chancellor has already said, not on your life. No way is this happening. The two are completely irrelevant, though. They're

independent of each other. So extraordinary business.

NIC ROBERTSON, CNN INTERNATIONAL DIPLOMATIC EDITOR: It is, and President Erdogan's initial position on Sweden going back to last year when Sweden

was putting itself forward for accession into NATO was that Sweden wasn't doing enough to crack down on the PKK, a Kurdish opposition party in in

Turkey, that Turkey considers a terrorist organization as do several other nations, and that Sweden needed to do more. Well, the feeling of Jens

Stoltenberg, NATO secretary-general is that Sweden has done everything that it needs to do.

So in the light and the eyes of the vast majority of countries and members of NATO, Sweden is there. It has done what's required. So this is utterly

out of context, perhaps not utterly unexpected from President Erdogan to throw as you say, a wrench in the works.

He seems to make it feel like there is an impasse although Stoltenberg has also said that he feels there can still be a positive discussion about

Sweden's membership of NATO at this Vilnius Summit, but it is hard to see how that can happen. This is a monumental roadblock by Turkey, and this one

seems insurmountable, because Turkey is not considered able to join the EU.


QUEST: Nic, the French were against Turkey joining. They didn't want a large Muslim -- predominant Muslim country. within the EU. Many of the

members of the EU object in some shape or form.

Now Erdogan knows this, and he also knows it's a non-starter. So why is he doing it? And the difficulty he is going to have to back out of it.

ROBERTSON: There has always been a nervousness nature whenever President Erdogan enters the room, because they don't know what he is going to come

in demanding. You know, members of the European Union would look back to when he got six billion euros out of the EU to help stop the migrant crisis

because they felt held to ransom because the migrants would just flow through Turkey, and move up to Europe.

So this was -- this was sort of how he was viewed back then, and I think he is still viewed as a leader that will enter into a situation and try to

treat it as bizarre in the Middle East, if you will, where you can negotiate whatever terms and outcomes you want, leverage the power and

strength of your position to get what you want.

I mean, it is super interesting, because just yesterday, President Biden had a phone call with him, and he was talking about the F-16 fighter jets

that Erdogan has that he wants upgraded, and thereto, Sweden's membership of NATO seem to be kind of linked to this position.

We don't know all the details of that phone conversation. Was President Biden aware that this EU issue is now a thing for Erdogan? It just doesn't

make, as you are saying, a lot of rational sense. What is his fallback position? What can he possibly hope to get out of this equation right now?

Or is he just permanently going to block Sweden? That seems unacceptable.

QUEST: In a word or three, is there any chance that the EU would grant candidate status, whatever would move to put Turkey on the list or higher

on the list?

ROBERTSON: A few words is possible. 2016, a coup against Erdogan. Erdogan's resolve after that was to move from prime minister to president, to take

the powers with him, he has extended his leadership with a recent election victory.

Broadly speaking, Turkey is not regarded as meeting the democratic values of the European Union. It's a non-starter at the moment. He would have to

revoke some of his powers, but that seems unlikely.

QUEST: Nic Robertson watching events. Thank you, sir.

Arancha Gonzalez Laya is the former Spanish foreign minister, now dean of the Paris School of International Affairs joining me now.

Why has he done it? I mean, he must know that it is going nowhere. What purpose does it serve to destabilize NATO and piss off everybody else in

the room?

ARANCHA GONZALEZ LAYA, FORMER SPANISH FOREIGN MINISTER: Well, I think we have to be clear. We have to be clear that there are two separate

processes, the two have different actors, the two are about separate subjects, and the two have different conditions.

One is about Sweden becoming with Finland, a member of NATO. The other one is about Turkey's European future, and mixing the two actually is not

helpful in that they cannot be mixed.

They both have their own specific path, and I think it is important, you know, Turkey is a strategic partner of the European Union. There is no

doubt about this. But I don't think that it is helpful to mix these two processes who have no connection other than the fact that Turkey is on both


QUEST: So why has he done it? He knows there is no connection. What is his endgame, in your view?

LAYA: Maybe it's a bit of a distraction. Maybe he wants to have leverage, but I think we have to be very calm, but pursue these two things, these two

tracks: Accession of Sweden to NATO is now because Sweden meets the conditions. And I think, you know, Turkey would not do itself a favor by

just holding on to Sweden. It would not do itself a favor either on its European Union future.

And the second one is, if there is an interest in pursuing an accession or a future with and in the European Union that would need to follow its own

logic, including meeting the requirements for that.

QUEST: How far can this NATO Summit go in terms of Ukraine's membership? Now, we know they're not going to admit, and we know they're not going to

go too far. But they've got to give Ukraine something.

LAYA: I think there are two areas where there is support within the NATO community vis-a-vis Ukraine. One is to strengthen to combat capacities of

Ukraine, and I think on this, every member of NATO is in agreement to keep supporting NATO for as long as it takes so that Ukraine can be in a

position to win this battle.


The second one is essentially about giving assurances, guarantees to Ukraine, a country that is at war, guarantees concerning its own security

and its own safety and doing this, not in generic terms, but doing this in concrete and specific manner.

I think these two are areas where I think the entire NATO community is in agreement, and I do hope that these two are clear at the end of the Vilnius


QUEST: So as they look towards the help that they are -- and further support they are going to give Ukraine, we're moving towards aircraft, more

aircraft, more tanks. Where does it end, do you think?

LAYA: Well, I think the NATO members have been very clear that they will help Ukraine for as long as it takes with a red line, which is not entering

into those combat themselves, unless obviously, there is an attack on a NATO territory.

But I think for the rest, the NATO family has been very clear and I think it is -- you know, the entire NATO family has been very honest with this

commitment and keeps supporting Ukraine, both on its civilian side, to keep the administration going, to get pensions being paid, to keep the education

system alive, but also on the military front.

I think on this one, there is unity, and I think it's an important unity.

QUEST: Good to have you, Arancha. Thank you very much. Joining us from --

LAYA: Pleasure to, Richard.

QUEST: Moscow says President Vladimir Putin met with Yevgeny Prigozhin only days after he led an attempted mutiny at the end of June.

The Kremlin spokesman, Dmitry Peskov said the Wagner leader was among more than 30 commanders who met Putin to discuss the military campaign against


This is an extraordinary stunning development. Look at the timeline and you'll see why. On the 23rd and 24th, Prigozhin leads his Wagner forces in

a short-lived attempted rebellion. It ends abruptly on the 24th.

On that day, President Putin addressed the nation calling the act of Prigozhin and his forces treasonous. Three days later, the Belarusian

President Lukashenko tells us Prigozhin is taking shelter in Belarus.

Two days after that, Prigozhin meets with President Putin in Russia. On July the 5th, the police raided the Wagner leader's opulent home in St.

Petersburg, and yet the next day, Lukashenko in Belarus says, Prigozhin is probably in St. Petersburg.

This is all very strange.

Fred Pleitgen joins me.

Why did Putin meet Yevgeny Prigozhin supposedly only two or three days after he had been calling him all treasonous?

FREDERIK PLEITGEN, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes, well, Richard, that's a question that many people internationally are asking, and

I can tell you, many people in Russia are asking as well, to see what exactly is behind that and why Vladimir Putin would have done that.

One of the possible reasons is that the Wagner mercenary group, the Wagner fighters were definitely some of, at least the most successful that the

Russians had on the ground in Ukraine.

I mean, recall the battle for Bakhmut where the Russians were making some progress when those Wagner fighters were still on the ground there. Since

those Wagner fighters have pulled out of the Bakhmut area and pulled out of Ukraine, the Russian military has been going backwards. The Ukrainians have

been making much of the way of headway, but certainly, it has been fairly significant progress that Ukrainians have been making.

So is that behind it? Very difficult to tell.

But, you know, some of the things that we heard from that meeting today from the Kremlin spokesman itself have been very interesting, because

you're absolutely right. The Kremlin itself called this a betrayal. The Kremlin itself went ahead and said, Yevgeny Prigozhin was going to have to

go to Belarus.

And today, we are hearing that Vladimir Putin apparently at that meeting, which lasted three hours told commanders and also, Yevgeny Prigozhin as

well, that they would look for possible new areas and new places of deployment also for these forces. So could that indicate that Wagner might

be making some sort of comeback to the battlefields of Ukraine? We don't know at this point.

We don't know what role Yevgeny Prigozhin, if any could play in that, but we do know that only about five days after the mutiny, which certainly was

at least in defiance of Vladimir Putin was a threat to the Russian military leadership, he was inside the Kremlin and had three hours of face time with

Vladimir Putin -- Richard.

QUEST: Are we being played here, Fred? Is this some master spy disinformation, get us to think that Prigozhin is the bad guy and actually

-- I mean, I just don't know. It is bizarre.


PLEITGEN: It is. It is certainly bizarre, and if we think it's bizarre, I can tell you that Kremlin-controlled media thinks it's even more bizarre

because Kremlin-controlled media, which, of course, is very important for the Russian narrative, they had been saying that the Wagner fighters are

heroes. They had been saying that Yevgeny Prigozhin is obviously a very popular, very important man in Russia.

And then after that mutiny took place, they did a complete 180 and started trashing Yevgeny Prigozhin. The last time was actually last night.

So it seems as though, if there is some sort of message control behind all of this, it seems to be one that at the very least, seems to be evolving.

One of the things I will say is that Vladimir Putin, you know, when faced with very tough decisions, something like that, he is someone who in the

past has shown himself to be capable to look beyond things that have happened, to look beyond maybe people that he dislikes, and make a decision

that he feels is best for his own power, and then possibly also for the power of Russia.

If you remember that, for instance, when the Turks shot down a Russian jet fighter over Syria, Vladimir Putin, in the end, a couple of months later

was one of the first people to stand behind Recep Tayyip Erdogan when he was under pressure with a coup at home.

So Vladimir Putin is definitely someone who can be quite nimble with that, but in this case, I can tell you, there are a lot of people inside Russia

who are also guessing and wondering what exactly was behind this and what the reason behind this was -- Richard.

QUEST: One of the biggest problems for Ukraine is the number of arms, hence the cluster bombs coming from the US. They haven't got enough armaments,

and they can't manufacture fast enough.

What's this about one of Europe's largest manufacturers stepping up production?

PLEITGEN: Yes, so I spoke to the CEO of Rheinmetall, and you're absolutely right. Artillery ammunition -- ammunition in general is a big problem for

the Ukrainians, but specifically 155 millimeter artillery ammunition is a huge problem for them right now, and also one of the reasons the Ukrainians

have said themselves, why their current counteroffensive is going slower than many of them have hoped, and the CEO of Rheinmetall tells me that they

have been preparing and they are ready to vastly increase their production. Let's listen in.


PLEITGEN: The ammunition is a huge deficit right now for the Ukrainians. They talk about it a lot. Where can you help?

ARMIN PAPPERGER, CEO, RHEINMETALL: We help them and the capacity we have is huge. Rheinmetall has the biggest capacity for tank ammunition. We produced

this year 150,000 rounds. We are able to produce 240,000 rounds, by far the biggest capacity worldwide. We will deliver and we deliver also now the

Ukrainian forces.

The second point is and this is the biggest need -- artillery ammunition. On the artillery ammunition, we produce hundreds thousands of rounds and

the capacity for next year will be 600,000.

So if you see that the need is one million, Rheinmetall could deliver, if we deliver only with the Ukrainians, 60 percent of their need.

PLEITGEN: So you can -- can you ramp that up quickly, also?

PAPPERGER: We ramped it up. We invested.

PLEITGEN: You've already been in that process.


PLEITGEN: We know that for artillery ammunition, or generally for ammunition, gunpowder has to go through a certain process before it can be

turned into shells.

PAPPERGER: We are the biggest producer of gunpowder and this is also a point, if we are able to produce 600,000 rounds, I think that's a huge help

for the Ukrainians.

PLEITGEN: What are the some of the things where you've maybe found weak- point stuff that you might need to change, stuff that might need to be improved? Are there lessons learned?

PAPPERGER: The Ukrainians now need land system stuff? They need ammunition, conventional ammunition because all people and all governments thought it

is impossible to have conventional war. We have a conventional war in Europe.


PLEITGEN: Armin Papperger there, the CEO of Rheinmetall, and he was one of the people who also said -- he said look, of course the Ukrainians need

more tanks. They need more armored vehicles, but he said, right now, the most immediate pressing thing that they definitely need and need quickly is

ammunition and specifically artillery ammunition -- Richard.

QUEST: Fred Pleitgen in Berlin. Thank you, sir.

On the eve of the Senate hearing on the proposed PGA tie up with LIV Golf, Randall Stephenson is walking away. He is the former AT&T chief executive

and has now quit the PGA Tour board over his concerns about partnering with the Saudis, in a moment.



QUEST: You pay your money, you takes your choice.

Now in the US, these little drinks are causing something of a big stir. They are Prime energy drinks, and they have more caffeine than two full

cups of coffee. Well, actually, not both of them.

This one has limited caffeine, no caffeine, and it's 20 calories, but this one. This is the one that's got everybody up in arms. This has 200

milligrams of caffeine. It is nice and brightly colored and it's got people talking about it.

Prime was founded by YouTubers, KSI and Logan Paul, and has a massive TikTok following. Now, it is being accused of marketing to kids.

Senator Chuck Schumer is even pushing US authorities to investigate the health of the energy drink. Prime says its energy drink falls within legal


Vanessa Yurkevich she is with me in New York.

Frankly, I don't know which one to open or try before we're finished, but this is the one that's causing all the problems.

VANESSA YURKEVICH, CNN BUSINESS AND POLITICS CORRESPONDENT: It is, that is the one with caffeine 200 milligrams. I mean, this is a brand that has

taken off on social media. TikTok alone, 3.4 million followers, 42 million likes, and as you mentioned, Logan Paul and KSI, they have millions of

followers themselves and they've been doing a lot of advertising for this brand.

We have to point out obviously, as you mentioned, the one in the bottle that is the hydration drink, the sports drink. The caffeine is in the can.

The energy market is huge. The energy drinks market is huge. In 2022, $58 billion in sales globally; 2023, sixty-two billion globally and projected

in next four years, $83 billion globally.

QUEST: But what's the problem with it? I mean, what are people getting hot under the collar about? That there is too much caffeine? Well, what -- why

is Chuck Schumer making such a fuss?

YURKEVICH: Well, this has really been targeted to kids and teens especially on social media, and he is saying that it's not clear enough especially for

parents who may be buying this for their children, which one has caffeine and just how much.

We do need to point out though that on the bottle you are looking at, Richard, it does say how much caffeine is on the label. I believe in the

very fine print, if you look at it, it does say that the company doesn't recommend drinking this if you are 18 and under.

The company is saying that they have complied with the FDA regulations. It states it clearly on the packaging, the materials and they do recommend not

drinking it below the age of 18 of course, you know, Schumer wants the FDA still to look at this and the company says we welcome it. FDA, look at

this. You tell us what we can do better, we'll comply.

QUEST: You know, I think one of the challenges is, yes, it does say this on the -- not recommended for children under 18 years of age. Of course,

that's not going to drag to the point, isn't it? Tell somebody they're under 18, they're not supposed to drink it and they'll be guzzling it

morning till night.


However, it is the fact that it says 200 milligrams of caffeine, and I can't work out -- is that the same as a Starbucks? Is that less than? Is

that more than? I can see the point here.

YURKEVICH: Yes. I think one of my colleagues who is a health reporter, she pointed this out to me. She said, it is about the same as about two Red

Bulls in that one can that you're holding, or six cokes -- Coca-Colas.

So when you sort of look at it that way, there is a lot of caffeine and caffeine really is not recommended for children under 18 at all by medical


So as this is becoming so popular, and it is sort of like the cool kids club, if you have this at school and you're drinking it at school, you

know, parents do need to be aware which one they're buying, the sports drink, as you mentioned, no caffeine at all. This one revved up with

caffeine. You know, Senator Schumer wants to make sure that parents and children clearly know that this really should not be for them.

QUEST: Vanessa, thank you.

As we continue, the PGA Tour is facing new criticism over its deal with LIV Golf only days before the Senate is due to have hearings, that takes place


Randall Stephenson is the former CEO of AT&T, and has now resigned from the PGA Tours Policy Board.

He sent a scathing letter, he expressed serious concerns about partnering with the Saudis. He says: "Particularly in the light of US intelligence

reports concerning Jamal Khashoggi in 2018."

Patrick Snell is in Atlanta.

Well, does it matter that Stephenson has done this? I mean, why would anyone care?

PATRICK SNELL, CNN WORLD SPORT ANCHOR: Well, this is one of the most hot button issues in the world of golf, Richard. We've seen that over the last

two years. People care because it's the global game, players and fans alike have an opinion.

QUEST: No, no, no, no, sorry. Patrick --

SNELL: If I can finish with the point. People do have an opinion, and that's why people care. I will get to that statement, but I will let you

come in and follow up though.

QUEST: No, what I mean is, why will they care that he's doing it?

SNELL: Oh, I mean --

QUEST: Yes, why will they -- although, I can certainly see the point about LIV and that, why would anybody care that Randall Stephenson has resigned?

And why has it taken him so long to do it?

SNELL: Well, this has been as I said, this is an issue that has got everyone sitting up and taking notice. We've seen the PGA Tour

commissioner, Jay Monahan, taking a step back on ill-health grounds, but good news from far as Jay Monahan is concerned, is that he has declared

himself fit and well and will be returning to the top dog at the PGA Tour in the next couple of weeks or so.

But let's get to that controversy and the fallout from Randall Stephenson and that shocking announcement though, Richard back in early June, as I

said, reverberations around the whole world of golf.

He is a really high-profile figure. He is the first one if you like, Randall Stephenson, to come forward and absolutely take a stance.

Let's get to the quote, if I may. In the resignation letter, this quote, the highly significant one coming in on Monday from Randall Stephenson, the

former AT&T CEO, in his resignation letter Stephenson writing, he had serious concerns with the PGA Tour's deal with LIV Golf saying, "It's not

one that I could objectively evaluate or in good conscience support, particularly in light of the US intelligence report concerning Jamal

Khashoggi in 2018."

Look, it's been one really, really high-profile issue, Richard, and to your point about people caring, this is significant, because he has taken that

step. He is the first one to actually take an action and make this very public.

It may have been weeks in the planning, we don't know, but it is out there now and it is really, really important as well, because we've got the

game's top golfers gathering this week in Scotland ahead of the Scottish open. Next week, of course, it's all eyes on Royal Liverpool and the

British Open. We'll be looking to hear people and golfers reacting on this.

And of course, those hearings slated for Tuesday. There is going to be an awful lot coming out of that, we would suspect -- Richard.

QUEST: Patrick Snell, again, thank you very much.

As we continue tonight, Ukraine wants to join the NATO Alliance, not so fast says the United States. President Biden tells CNN, Russia's war must

end first, in a moment.



QUEST: Hello. I'm Richard Quest. There's more QUEST MEANS BUSINESS in just a moment. Turkey appears to be clearing the way for Sweden's NATO bid

(INAUDIBLE) moving stories, moving fast. We'll bring you the latest.

And the chief executive of North Airways joins me to talk about transatlantic travel. All of that in a moment only after I've updated you

with the headlines because this is CNN and here the news always comes first.

The Israeli parliament is expected to vote soon on a key part of the government's judicial overall plans. It's triggered months of nationwide

protests. The bill would limit the supreme court oversight of the legislative branch and the executive branch. It requires three readings or

votes before it can become law.

Sources are telling CNN the USA gymnastics doctor who was convicted of sexually abusing young female athletes was stabbed 10 times in prison.

Authorities say Larry Nassar is in stable condition. In 2018, he was sentenced to up to 175 years in prison having been found guilty of sexually

abusing more than 150 female athletes, most of whom were minors at the time.

Police in China now say six people were killed during an attack outside of kindergarten in southern China. State media is reporting the attacker use a

knife that the victims includes three children, two parents and a teacher. The police have arrested a 25-year-old suspect.

Ukrainian officials say a Russian strike killed seven people in the Zaporizhzhia region on Sunday. The regional governor reported a bomb landed

on a school building that's been used to distribute aid to civilians. 11 people were hurt in the attack, which is being investigated as a war crime.

Breaking news to bring you. According to NATO Chief Jens Stoltenberg, Turkey has agreed to back Sweden's NATO bid. Now this is all a bit strange,

because only a few moments ago you and I were talking about the fact that the Turkish president was previously refusing to back the bid and as his

country was gradually considered for E.U. membership. Well, the NATO Secretary General has just spoken in. Let's have a listen.


JENS STOLTENBERG, NATO SECRETARY GENERAL: I'm glad to announce that, as a result, President Erdogan has agreed to forward the accession protocol for

Sweden to the Grand National Assembly as soon as possible. And work closely with the assembly to ensure ratification.



QUEST: Nic Robertson is in London What happened, Nic?

NIC ROBERTSON, CNN INTERNATIONAL DIPLOMATIC EDITOR: Well, it certainly seems that President Erdogan had a lot of people fooled by the language

that he used. It sounded very much cut and dried that he wanted something for something. But here he's got something for something else. It seems

what is got from Sweden and we're just getting details on it from NATO.

So, I think -- so just looking at it, seven points here on that meeting between President Erdogan and Ulf Kristersson, the Prime Minister of Sweden

and NATO Secretary General Jens Stoltenberg that there is an agreement by Sweden to hold bilateral security meetings with -- it appears Turkey on an

annual basis, at least perhaps in the margins of these NATO leaders summit that a term that Sweden gives commitments, that it won't harbor and give

sanctuary to the YPG, the Syrian Kurdish group.

Another Kurdish group that the -- that the Turks believe are terrorists and are trying to undermine -- and trying to undermine turkey. So, this is an

additional, it seems before I'm able to sort of go through all the bullet points that are put down by NATO. But it appears that there are additional

security guarantees that Sweden is -- the Swedish Prime Minister has given the Turkish president -- that has given the Turkish president to arrive at

the position where he has now said.

And on this basis and given the imperatives of deterrence and defense for the Euro-Atlantic area, Turkey will transmit the session protocol for

Sweden to the Grand National Assembly and worked closely with the assembly to ensure its ratification now, how quickly can they do that. It seems

unrealistic that it will happen in the lifespan of this two-day leaders NATO Summit in Vilnius. Those getting underway tomorrow.

That seems to be a bit speedy. But look, we've just been surprised by President Erdogan saying one thing and doing another. It's I think,

important to reflect here that that Jens Stoltenberg, NATO Secretary General said he still saw the opportunity for positive outcomes on this

issue. And perhaps a reference also to President Biden's call with President Erdogan yesterday about the F-16 upgrades that President Erdogan


QUEST: But he couldn't have been clearer. Look, I don't know labor the point. You couldn't have been clearer on what he said at least the

translation that I've seen. He tied Sweden's membership to NATO, with Turkey being opened up for E.U. or the E.U. membership being back on the

agenda. And he hasn't got that. And everybody always said that once the election was over, he would find some face-saving way to get Sweden in. I'm

left confused.

ROBERTSON: And I think a lot of people are confused. But this is a very typical of the brinksmanship in negotiations that President Erdogan has

become very skilled and adapted during his many, many, many years in leadership. And he appears to have used this to his advantage to get the

maximum out of Sweden in terms of the counterterrorism security guarantees, continued follow up meetings, a bilateral relationship, language and this

declaration about no limits to sort of defense and security cooperation across borders.

All these sorts of things that are fundamental to what President Erdogan had originally said that he wanted. And Sweden had gone above and beyond it

appeared until that moment to meet those requirements. I -- look, this comes to me, comes back to what I've heard from officials inside those

closed rooms at NATO over the years that when President Erdogan walks in the room, everyone gets a little nervous because they don't quite know what

they're going to get.

He is a consummate negotiator. Whatever his methods, he appears to have gotten a good degree of what he wanted in terms of security guarantees, if

not E.U. membership.

QUEST: Nic Robertson, grateful, sir, as always, thank you.

Ukraine's President Zelenskyy says he doesn't want to go to NATO Summit for the fun of the thing. He wants Ukraine's membership into the alliance. And

that's not going to happen right now. So says President Biden, he was speaking to Fareed Zakaria and the U.S. president says Russia's invasion

must end before NATO will consider adding key to its ranks.


JOE BIDEN, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: I don't think it's ready for membership in NATO. But here's the deal. I spent, as you know, a great deal

of time trying to hold NATO together because I believe he has had an overwhelming objective from the time he launched 185,000 troops in Ukraine.

And that was to break NATO. He was confident in my view and many the intelligence community, he was confident he can break NATO.


So, holding NATO together is really critical. I don't think there is unanimity in NATO about whether or not to bring Ukraine into the NATO

family now, at this moment in the middle of a war. For example, if you did that then, you know, we -- I -- and I mean, what I say. We're determined to

commit every inch of territory that is NATO territory is a commitment that we've all made no matter what. If the war is going on, then we're all in

war. You know, we're war Russia is never the case.


QUEST: A hundred million strong and growing matter says it's new threads social media is bursting with signups. Now, people are signing up, but are

they using it? And is there any evidence that matters success is coming up Twitter's cost.


QUEST: Meta says its new rival to Twitter has signed up 100 million accounts in its first five days. As Threads takes off, activity on Twitter

seems to be falling according to similar web analysis of internet traffic. During the first two days, Threads was fully up and running. Twitter

traffic dropped five percent from the previous week. Now, it lets up perspective. Twitter says it's roughly 535 million monthly active users.

It remains to be seen if people joining Threads will actually use it going forward. Clare's with me to help me understand it. Clare Duffy. Now

reality, let's do it in two bits here. It's actually not that difficult for Threads to get its membership numbers up because essentially, everyone

who's on Instagram has a Threads account. The second point, are they using it?

CLARE DUFFY, CNN BUSINESS WRITER: It's a good question, Richard. For now, people are absolutely using Threads. You have journalists who are starting

to post their work there. You have celebrities, you have tech CEOs joining the platform. To me what's really interesting is that you have a lot of

people who are Instagram users who were not previously Twitter users were joining Threads.

And I think to me, that's perhaps the biggest risk to Twitter is less so Twitter users leaving or using Threads more. This thing isn't going to

completely take Threads off the market. But I think it's really likely that there are people who were never on Twitter to begin with, but we're on

Instagram who are now I'm just going to join Threads and they're not going to join Twitter. And that really sort of undermines this $44 billion bet

that Elon Musk made on Twitter that he could turn this into a better business.


QUEST: I also assume that what really happens, of course is Twitter has become, if you will, the Global Press Association. You want to make a

comment? If you're -- if you're a celebrity and somebody dies, you put your open comments on Twitter. Everybody go -- puts it on Twitter. We're not --

I mean, I shouldn't think we're yet seeing evidence of a shift in that sense, I presume what will happen is you'll put your comment or note on


DUFFY: I think that will happen. Although you have had a number of celebrities and other high-profile users leave Twitter in the last couple

of months because of these controversial policy decisions Elon Musk has made. And also, because he has really prioritized the tweets of the people

who have bought blue checks on Twitter, who have bought that verification check mark. And so, a lot of people who haven't done that, who don't think

it's worth it, are seeing less engagement on Twitter.

You see a number of users in the last couple of days talk about how their engagement on the same post has been so much higher on threads, although

they have a lower follower count because it's a new platform than it is on Twitter. Even though that's been around for a lot longer.

QUEST: Is there a feeling that all right, Zuckerberg might be a bit weird. And certainly, Facebook had problems with selling names. But actually, it's

probably a more reputable business. It's a public company that's got shareholders that's regulated to an extent and it's just, you know, big

corp that they don't like but actually, it might be better at running something like this.

DUFFY: There certainly is more accountability when you come to Meta. As you say, they have shareholders, they have this public oversight board that

oversees currently Facebook but certainly could weigh in if something was going wrong on threads. I think, you know, you also -- Meta is using its

community guidelines on Twitter the same as it does on face on Threads, roughly the same as it does on Facebook and Instagram.

So, there is content moderation happening whereas a lot of folks in the last couple of months have not appreciated the fact that Elon Musk has

rolled back a lot of the content moderation on Twitter. It's become a place where there's a lot more harassment, there's more hate speech. And that's

just not fun to interact with when you're on the platform. And so, I think there are people who despite reservations about Mark Zuckerberg and about

Meta's history are liking the fact that they can go on Threads and have sort of a decent conversation there.

QUEST: Clare, as always, I'm very grateful. Thank you. I want to just go (INAUDIBLE) good friend of mine Steve was watching in the U.K. I'm using

Threads, it's great. So says all of us.

Transatlantic travel on a shoestring budget. Many airlines have tried and failed to cut the low-cost long-haul model. North has been going a year.

The chief executive tells me how the company is faring.



QUEST: Norse Atlantic is celebrating its first anniversary. Norse now flies almost 20 routes, a massive growth from the start and only flew to New

York, California and Florida. You can see the growth map on there. A low- cost long-haul carrier notoriously difficult in the world of aviation, because their selling point is price. And the challenge for Norse is that

often, the carriers can match their low fares.

If we take a look, we have to compare apples with apples for a week in September. We looked at the lowest no-frills ticket from London to New

York. We know back in the old this was the basic economy ticket. Norse came in at 537, B.A. and Virgin, you'll not be surprised to learn came in at

652, exactly the same amount. So, Norse is cheaper. Bjorn Tore Larsen is the Chief Exec of Norse. He's with me in New York.

I'm sure you're pleased on that you're the cheapest. And, you know, not only have you stayed in business which I'm not terribly surprised that in

year one, you did sort of have good reserves, you are well capitalized. But you're growing fast. Too fast?

BJORN TORE LARSEN, CHIEF EXECUTIVE OFFICER, NORSE ATLANTIC: I don't think we grow too fast. Actually, we flew five aircraft during the last year and

we are up to 10 now. And obviously it's a challenge whenever you are ramping up, but I think we are growing in a very controlled pace. And we

haven't -- I mean, one example of that is that we have carried out every flight we're supposed to do this summer, zero cancellation. So not many

airlines can say the same.

QUEST: What is fascinating about Norse is your strategy for the winter. You know, you know the old saying, any fool can make money across the Atlantic

in the summer. But in the winter, it gets a lot more difficult. And there, you're moving the fleet.

LARSEN: Yes, exactly. Because people really want to go to warm places, at least us who lives in a cold place during winter. So, this winter, we're

going to fly more to warm places like Florida. We're going to fly -- and also from Florida to Europe. We're going to fly from U.K. to Caribbean,

we're going to fly to Bangkok as examples. And just today, we're actually launching four new routes to Miami, from Paris, from London, from Berlin

and from Oslo.

So, we think winter is going to be great as well. Although, of course, winter is more of a challenge than summer.

QUEST: What do you want to be? Where do you want the airline to go? Obviously, your size and scale, yes. But in your vision, what is the


LARSEN: Well, our airline is really the airline where people get value for money. We definitely want to be the best price airline and we typically

are. But we also want to give good quality. When you fly across the Atlantic or even further, you don't want to be like, you know, packed

together in a very squeezed manner for hours and hours. So, you need to have some comfort, but at the same time, you don't have to pay for a lot of

stuff that you don't need.

So, we really sell unbundled tickets ala carte, and passengers just love it. And we get so many good feedbacks on our business model.

QUEST: The core of any airline is yield management, the amount you sell individual tickets for individual seats, at times of the year. Do you have

-- your premium product and is popular. And would you ever consider extending the number of premium seats in the aircraft?

LARSEN: You shall never say never. But we like a very standardized aircraft, part of our recipes, keeping very things very simple, very

standardized, so that we have one aircraft type. We have one configuration and we have 56 premium seats and we are on many, many flights. They're

full. So, it's obviously a very popular product. Whether we should go beyond that time will show but never ruled it out.

QUEST: All right. So where do you make more money then? Ancillary is an important part. I'm sure you've got the number for the percentage that

you're ancillary brings in. What would you go into business? I mean, we've seen from Michael over at Ryanair and Joseph over at Wizz, you know,

selling everything from insurance to cars (INAUDIBLE) what's your vision for how far you will push the ancillary revenue bus?

LARSEN: We think we can add on more products and, you know, be able to offer people more things on their journey than we do today. And even today,

we think we are number one in ancillary revenues in the world per passenger. So that's pretty good after a year in operation, but at the same

time, we don't want to force people to buy anything. So, it's really having products that people want to buy and pay for.

And for us it's more important to fill the aircraft to have a high-load factor and then I would say the ancillary part is more gravy than it is a

necessity but definitely we do need ancillary part is more gravy than it is a necessity.


But definitely we do need them salaries and we are good at selling it.

QUEST: Yes. You see, that's the thing with long haul, isn't it? Long haul, you have to make the money to a large extent on the (INAUDIBLE) seat price

because it's the fuel in a sense.

LARSEN: Yes. That's true. And we are but at the same time we have Dreamliners which are very good cargo loaders. And in particularly from

Europe to America, we have a lot of cargo on board which partly compensate for the cost of flying. And secondly, we do have to two classes. We have

the economy class which is a great product and then we have the premium class which I think is the best in the world with a 43-inch pitch there.

So, we think that we have something that appeals to everybody but also that's something that fill the aircraft on almost every flight.

QUEST: Good to see, Born. We've still got to try it out on the program. We will. We like to road test these things. Thank you for joining us tonight

and happy birthday.

LARSEN: Thank you, sir.

QUEST: And many more often. Thank you, sir.

LARSEN: Thank you.

QUEST: We will take a profitable moment after the break. QUEST MEANS BUSINESS.


QUEST: Tonight's profitable moment. There is something both infuriating and irritating whilst being frustrating about Turkey and Sweden's membership of

NATO. So, the president of Turkey arrives and says he's not going to agree to Sweden joining unless Turkey's membership of the E.U. is put back on the

front burner. And everybody's left wondering, what on earth is all about? It came out of the blue.

And now apparently a deal has been done in which Turkey has said that or at least Sweden says it will help push Turkey's membership forward. Not by the

way that it was Turkey that was restricting. In the first place, it was France and others that was restricting Turkey's membership. You're left

wondering what on earth was all that about? Because we all sort of knew that eventually, Turkey was going to allow Sweden in.

Why? Because Erdogan is a master tactician, but he's also a realist and a superb global politician. He knows that Turkey, that Sweden's membership of

NATO is essential as part of the fight in Ukraine. And so, everybody's ended up where we all thought they would end up. Sweden it'll get in.

Turkey's got a bit more of what it wants. Everybody's confused by what Erdogan did and left thinking what on earth was that all about?


I can tell you. That was QUEST MEANS BUSINESS. And I'm Richard Quest. Whatever you're up to in the hours ahead. I hope it's profitable. The

closing bell (Inaudible).